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David Icke's claim that 'there is no virus'?


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2 hours ago, GeoffB said:

You have no understanding of gene sequencing whatsoever.

If you know the exact gene sequence of the host cell and you know the likely structure of the virus the very sophisticated gene sequencing machine will do the rest.

Hillman wrote his book in 1972 before gene sequencing was discovered.

He was also sacked because of his perverse views.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news/good-scientists-bad-science-clinging-to-a-dubious-position-can-destroy-a-career-62809

What was Hillman perverse views? Elaborate

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2 hours ago, GeoffB said:

You have no understanding of gene sequencing whatsoever.

If you know the exact gene sequence of the host cell and you know the likely structure of the virus the very sophisticated gene sequencing machine will do the rest.

Hillman wrote his book in 1972 before gene sequencing was discovered.

He was also sacked because of his perverse views.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news/good-scientists-bad-science-clinging-to-a-dubious-position-can-destroy-a-career-62809

How would you know the likely structure of a yet to be identified virus? I understand gene sequencing perfectly. And when it comes to identifying viruses, it is pseudoscience and CGI built on a computer. Real life and computer modelling is not the same thing, as proof by Professor Neil Ferguson continually getting  his calculation wrong. Garbage in, garbage out

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1 hour ago, GeoffB said:

It is up to Lanka to prove that his 99,90Euros powders and tablets work.

But as he hasn't written a peer reviewed scientific paper for decades so that's not going to happen.

Why would he need to do that? He said his product work and I assumed if people keep buying them they are satisfied customers. You make an accusation that his product dose not work, it is up to you to prove this. Else you are talking cow dung. Put up or shut up

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14 hours ago, GeoffB said:

As I have said before the virologists the government chooses to listen to are being over cautious.

Overcautious in what sense? Do they not know after a year and half what the virus can and cannot do?

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13 hours ago, GeoffB said:

The letters sent out were worded in such a way by people who should understand that viruses are only evident when they attack another cell and try to replicate. They knew that asking for proof of a totally isolated virus is not possible and the "no virus exists" gullibles have fallen for it.

Viruses have been gene sequenced thousands upon thousands of times by different labs all over the world achieving the same results.

Here is a copy of the letter they sent out which shows they worded it to achieve their warped narrative and it was sent not in good faith.

 

Dear Public Health England,

I would like to see:

All records in the possession, custody or control of Public Health England describing the isolation of a SARS-COV-2 virus, directly from a sample taken from a diseased patient, where the patient sample was not first combined with any other source of genetic material (i.e. monkey kidney cells aka vero cells; liver cancer cells).

Please note that I am using "isolation" in the every-day sense of the word: the act of separating a thing(s) from everything else. I am not requesting records where "isolation of SARS-COV-2" refers *instead* to:

• the culturing of something, or
• the performance of an amplification test (i.e. a PCR test), or
• the sequencing of something.

Please also note that my request is not limited to records that were authored by the PHE or that pertain to work done by the PHE. My request includes any sort of record, for example (but not limited to) any published peer-reviewed study that the PHE has downloaded or printed.

Please provide enough information about each record so that I may identify and access each record with certainty (i.e. title, author(s), date, journal, where the public may access it).”

Yours faithfully,

Andrew Johnson

You keep repeating the same thing. Address what I have ask you. If virus can only by identified by gene sequencing then how did Enders and his ilk discovered virus before the advent of gene sequencing technology. I await your answer with bated breathe.

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1 hour ago, GeoffB said:

The UK government chooses who they want as their advisors.

If they surround themselves with maths modelers, virologists, epidemiologists, scientists and doctors who are all over cautious pessimists then the government will have a jaundiced view of the current situation.

There are plenty of other virologists, epidemiologists, scientists and doctors out there who believe that Covid19 has been blown out of proportion and that lockdowns are unnecessary and that "the vaccines" may be harmful and counter productive.

Unfortunately governments choose to listen to the former and not the latter.

One then has to ask if governments are just being over cautious or are they being coerced into bringing in draconian measures for something more sinister.

As a fan of David Icke's for the last 20 years I believe it is the latter.

The only thing I don't agree with David is his insistence that "viruses do not exist".

I have done the research and Stefan Lanka and Andrew Kaufman who have influenced David are charlatans with no credibility whatsoever.

You like insulting people don't you? Is mirkovits a charlatan? Or only people you disagree with are charlatans. Pathetic

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1 hour ago, GeoffB said:

I quite agree.

Many of their advisors have links and shares in Big Pharma and definitely have a conflict of interest which doesn't seem to bother corrupt governments.

And yet you trust them on viruses?????

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29 minutes ago, kilowon said:

That does not answer the question. Just because something is similar to something else does not means they have the same characteristics. How did they know this new genome was responsible for covid19 in human?

Because all of the thousands of samples they have used came from people suffering from Covid19 with it's peculiar symptoms not seen in other similar illnesses.

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1 hour ago, GeoffB said:

The only official narrative I support is that viruses exist.

Many others in the alternative media know that viruses exist including Judy Mikovits.

We can't all be "controlled opposition".

You are most definitely controlled opposition. Whether you know it or not. The biggest lie in all of this is that there is a deadly virus around killing people. We know this is not so. And the moment people realizes that sarscov2 and by extension covid19 is  a figment of the death cult imagination, which they are using to usher in the great reset then it is over for them. You peddling the virus myth is not helping the cause. And you are using the same tactics that people who disagree with Mirkovits are doing. Attacking the messenger, not the message. Because you know that Lanka is right. So yeah, controlled opposition 

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28 minutes ago, kilowon said:

No they have not. You refuse to address the issue of how they were able to identified the genome of the virus in the organic cell culture. Let me give you a simple example. If you bake a cake, your ingredient will include flour, eggs, baking powder, sugar, milk and butter. But if you ate that cake and you get some sort of allergy. You can do two thing, stop eating cake or try to find out which of the ingredient in the cake caused your allergy. To do that you cannot use the cake as the ingredient have been mixed up and the process of cooking means you will not be able to separate one ingredient from another. So the logical thing would be to test each of the ingredient individually and see which one you are allergic to. But in virology they have never once done that. They just took a random piece of the cake and claim it is the one causing your allergy.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it.

Virology and gene sequencing is an incredibly complicated process which cannot be simplified by your analogy.

The first question virologists would ask is is this the virus or is it a residue from the host material.

That's why they do quality control processes.

This scientific paper admits the difficulty ......

"Obtaining virus genome sequence directly from clinical samples is still a challenging task due to the low load of virus genetic material compared to the host DNA, and to the difficulty to get an accurate genome assembly. Here we introduce a complete sequencing and analyzing protocol called V-ASAP for Virus Amplicon Sequencing Assembly Pipeline. Our protocol is able to generate the viral dominant genome sequence starting from clinical samples. It is based on a multiplex PCR amplicon sequencing coupled with a reference-free analytical pipeline. This protocol was applied to 11 clinical samples infected with coronavirus OC43 (HcoV-OC43), and led to seven complete and two nearly complete genome assemblies. The protocol introduced here is shown to be robust, to produce a reliable sequence, and could be applied to other virus."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682219300728

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36 minutes ago, kilowon said:

BTW, Lanka disproved the existence of Measles virus. So much so, that in 2017, The Big Picture Book of Viruses, available on virology.net, stop using the image of the measles virus. Now, if you go there, all it say next to the measles virus is n/a. Not applicable. http://www.virology.net/Big_Virology/BVRNApara.html

He did no such thing.

He lost his famous case of someone proving the measles virus exists in the German courts and was ordered to pay out his 100,000Euros bet.

He went to the German high court on appeal and pleaded that it was up to him to decide the parameters and just like the FOI letter writers he worded his bet so that "isolation" meant total isolation in the literal sense and the German High Court let him off on technicality whilst they said it had no bearing on the fact the the measles virus exists.

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51 minutes ago, kilowon said:

What was Hillman perverse views? Elaborate

When I give you a link it would be helpful if you actually bothered to read it as it is all explained in there.

This was all 40 to 50 years ago. Can you not drag yourself into the modern era of gene sequencing?

The article states that "he was sacked by his university for his research which was deemed below average".

"Hillman’s reasoning is simple, attractive—and wrong, according to virtually every cell biologist and electron microscopist."

“Some of the things he was saying were destructive and not helpful [for science],” 

This one sounds like you .....

"but he lets his eccentricities carry him away, and he won’t back down when he’s wrong."

 

 

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59 minutes ago, kilowon said:

How would you know the likely structure of a yet to be identified virus? I understand gene sequencing perfectly. And when it comes to identifying viruses, it is pseudoscience and CGI built on a computer. Real life and computer modelling is not the same thing, as proof by Professor Neil Ferguson continually getting  his calculation wrong. Garbage in, garbage out

All viruses have similar structures which differ in size.

It is still complicated. 

To all those who claim SARS-CoV-2—or any virus—does not exist: the virosphere consists of 4 realms, 9 kingdoms, 16 phyla, 2 subphyla, 36 classes, 55 orders, 8 suborders, 168 families, 103 subfamilies, 1421 genera, 68 subgenera, 6590 species.

It is not CGI.

Ferguson is a moron who knows nothing about viruses and is not medically trained as he is just a computer modeler who has been wrong on everything he has ever touched.

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58 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

Because all of the thousands of samples they have used came from people suffering from Covid19 with it's peculiar symptoms not seen in other similar illnesses.

There were no thousands of samples when the virus was supposedly isolated. Only a few cases were used as samples. Covid19 does not have a unique symptoms of its own. If it does, please name them

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59 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

Because all of the thousands of samples they have used came from people suffering from Covid19 with it's peculiar symptoms not seen in other similar illnesses.

For example in USA, CDC, used the sample from one person

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47 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

You're trying to have your cake and eat it.

Virology and gene sequencing is an incredibly complicated process which cannot be simplified by your analogy.

The first question virologists would ask is is this the virus or is it a residue from the host material.

That's why they do quality control processes.

This scientific paper admits the difficulty ......

"Obtaining virus genome sequence directly from clinical samples is still a challenging task due to the low load of virus genetic material compared to the host DNA, and to the difficulty to get an accurate genome assembly. Here we introduce a complete sequencing and analyzing protocol called V-ASAP for Virus Amplicon Sequencing Assembly Pipeline. Our protocol is able to generate the viral dominant genome sequence starting from clinical samples. It is based on a multiplex PCR amplicon sequencing coupled with a reference-free analytical pipeline. This protocol was applied to 11 clinical samples infected with coronavirus OC43 (HcoV-OC43), and led to seven complete and two nearly complete genome assemblies. The protocol introduced here is shown to be robust, to produce a reliable sequence, and could be applied to other virus."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682219300728

I knew it. I knew you were going to post another wall of text which does in no way addressed the questions I asked. Pathetic

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41 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

He did no such thing.

He lost his famous case of someone proving the measles virus exists in the German courts and was ordered to pay out his 100,000Euros bet.

He went to the German high court on appeal and pleaded that it was up to him to decide the parameters and just like the FOI letter writers he worded his bet so that "isolation" meant total isolation in the literal sense and the German High Court let him off on technicality whilst they said it had no bearing on the fact the the measles virus exists.

Nope. go and read up the case and the court transcript. Why do you just parrot what the MSM say. On a David Icke forum no less. If you had read the court transcript then you would have seen that he asked the Robert Koch institute, the German CDC, to run the control experiment to prove the existence of the measles virus. Seeing how that could lead to the virology house of cards tumbling down, they quickly settled. BTW, Lanka is currently running those controlled experiment and has already published his preliminary finding. You are not going to like it. Here is the court transcript in English. Read it and weep. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Flrbw.juris.de%2Fcgi-bin%2Flaender_rechtsprechung%2Fdocument.py%3FGericht%3Dbw%26GerichtAuswahl%3DOberlandesgerichte%26Art%3Den%26sid%3D46bf3db2df690aba6e4874acafaf45b6%26nr%3D20705%26pos%3D0%26anz%3D1&sandbox=1

 

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26 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

When I give you a link it would be helpful if you actually bothered to read it as it is all explained in there.

This was all 40 to 50 years ago. Can you not drag yourself into the modern era of gene sequencing?

The article states that "he was sacked by his university for his research which was deemed below average".

"Hillman’s reasoning is simple, attractive—and wrong, according to virtually every cell biologist and electron microscopist."

“Some of the things he was saying were destructive and not helpful [for science],” 

This one sounds like you .....

"but he lets his eccentricities carry him away, and he won’t back down when he’s wrong."

 

 

Again, which of those are perverse views? Elaborate. And how can any views be destructive to science? Some say that Mirkovits views is destructive to virology. Do you think her views are perverse? BTW, they never called Harold Hillman views perverse, you did. So explain how his disagreement with others is perverse. 

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19 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

All viruses have similar structures which differ in size.

It is still complicated. 

To all those who claim SARS-CoV-2—or any virus—does not exist: the virosphere consists of 4 realms, 9 kingdoms, 16 phyla, 2 subphyla, 36 classes, 55 orders, 8 suborders, 168 families, 103 subfamilies, 1421 genera, 68 subgenera, 6590 species.

It is not CGI.

Ferguson is a moron who knows nothing about viruses and is not medically trained as he is just a computer modeler who has been wrong on everything he has ever touched.

Anytime someone use the phrase It is complicated, you know they are BSing you. If you cannot explain your science in layman term then you do not understand it. BTW, you have still not address my question of how they were able to isolate viruses before the coming of gene sequencing. Get to it.

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22 minutes ago, GeoffB said:

 

Ferguson is a moron who knows nothing about viruses and is not medically trained as he is just a computer modeler who has been wrong on everything he has ever touched.

We know that. So is anyone who work within the field of virology. 

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1 hour ago, kilowon said:

Why would he need to do that? He said his product work and I assumed if people keep buying them they are satisfied customers. You make an accusation that his product dose not work, it is up to you to prove this. Else you are talking cow dung. Put up or shut up

It appears you agree with whatever Lanka says even though it is nonsense.

There are many gullible people out there willing to part with their money to a charlatan.

Gullible people may benefit from the placebo effect. 

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1 hour ago, kilowon said:

You keep repeating the same thing. Address what I have ask you. If virus can only by identified by gene sequencing then how did Enders and his ilk discovered virus before the advent of gene sequencing technology. I await your answer with bated breathe.

There you go again living in the past. Enders was born in 1897.

I didn't say viruses can "only" be identified by gene sequencing, that's what they do now.

In Enders day propagation of the virus was successively achieved in human kidney cells, human amnion cells, embryonated hens' eggs, and finally chick embryo cell cultures.

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33 minutes ago, kilowon said:

Again, which of those are perverse views? Elaborate. And how can any views be destructive to science? Some say that Mirkovits views is destructive to virology. Do you think her views are perverse? BTW, they never called Harold Hillman views perverse, you did. So explain how his disagreement with others is perverse. 

Dictionary definition of perverse = "contrary to the accepted or expected standard or practice."

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1 hour ago, kilowon said:

Nope. go and read up the case and the court transcript. Why do you just parrot what the MSM say. On a David Icke forum no less. If you had read the court transcript then you would have seen that he asked the Robert Koch institute, the German CDC, to run the control experiment to prove the existence of the measles virus. Seeing how that could lead to the virology house of cards tumbling down, they quickly settled. BTW, Lanka is currently running those controlled experiment and has already published his preliminary finding. You are not going to like it. Here is the court transcript in English. Read it and weep. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Flrbw.juris.de%2Fcgi-bin%2Flaender_rechtsprechung%2Fdocument.py%3FGericht%3Dbw%26GerichtAuswahl%3DOberlandesgerichte%26Art%3Den%26sid%3D46bf3db2df690aba6e4874acafaf45b6%26nr%3D20705%26pos%3D0%26anz%3D1&sandbox=1

 

The decision said nothing about the existence or non-existence of the measles virus, emphasized judge Oleschkewitz. The Chamber could not judge that at all. "It's a purely legal decision," he said. The only sticking point is the formulation of the claim.

The three judges did not doubt the existence of the virus, but in the opinion of the court, the six studies presented did not comply with the claim. Lanka had asked for work to prove the existence and size of the measles virus. “Bardens did not present this one piece of work,” writes the Schwäbische Zeitung in its live reporting.

Formally, it was not about a bet or a competition, but about an advertisement, according to the judges in their reasoning. The organizer alone can determine the rules - and decide when the criteria are met.

https://www.deutsche-apotheker-zeitung.de/news/artikel/2016/02/16/erfolg-fur-impfgegner-bei-masern-wette

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3 hours ago, GeoffB said:

It appears you agree with whatever Lanka says even though it is nonsense.

There are many gullible people out there willing to part with their money to a charlatan.

Gullible people may benefit from the placebo effect. 

WOW. It must make you feel so much better about your life to call others who have differing opinion from you gullible. After all, you are all knowing. Funnily enough, i discover Lanka well after i sussed out germ theory. But you do know better right? Also i noticed you avoiding posting your scientific evidences that shows his products are snake oil. Still waiting on that one. Get to it. 

Edited by kilowon
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