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What was the earliest and original Christian belief on the end times?


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I'm aware now that the concept of "the rapture" is a relatively recent one, thought to gave gained traction in the US among their Protestant populace.

 

I'm also aware that Catholicism have a slightly different teaching and belief about how people will go to heaven compared to their Protestant, Coptic and Orthodox counterparts.

But what was that original belief?

 

I've heard many different variations, but I can't seem to find the original belief.

P.S. This is not a thread to debate on the legitimacy of Christianity, or if it's the "one true religion" or a fairytale. I'm looking to discuss the earliest fundamental beliefs on the end times.

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Well the source I go by is the kjv Bible, not what this guy or that guy says is so.

Yes there can be a debate as to the accuracy of the kjv but I’ll leave that for others who do their own translation.

 

A practical way to start is to enter a search entitled “the time of the end book of Daniel Bible verses.”  That is a starting point to the study.

I don’t know you, so forgive me if you already know this:

 

To engage only one aspect of the self, the intellect, when examining any biblical issue is to miss the point entirely.  Bible study is to be accompanied by prayer that you will be guided to the truth.  Not just rambling, but asking the Holy Spirit for help, along with doing the personal work God has given you to do so you will be acceptable in his sight.  God wants us to know the truth, but he also wants us to come correct. 

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22 hours ago, Oxide said:

But what was that original belief?

 

Thanks for bringing it up. It appears to be another doctrine without scriptural authority. Here's some info from a Catholic publication - 

 

The Rapture - Left Behind Or Left Out

 

The Rapture
You may have heard the term, “The Rapture” from a Protestant friend or relative. Although the word itself doesn’t appear in Scripture, the idea that Christ will come back to rescue the “elect” from the coming period of persecutions against the Church is only about 185 years old.


It is taken largely from a faulty interpretation of Scripture.


The word “Rapture” is taken from the Latin Vulgate translation of 1 Thess. 4:16‐17, which says:
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."

 

The Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Anglican Communion, Lutheranism and many Protestant Calvinist denominations do not hold to Rapture Theology.

The Koine Greek of 1 Thess. 4:17 uses the verb form ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagisometha) and is rendered as harpazō (ἁρπάζω). The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek as rapiemur from the Latin verb rapio. It’s interesting to note that Protestants, who usually reject the Latin Vulgate as a “perverted” translation, will randomly adopt some of its terminologies, such as “Rapio”.

 

snip (here's the reply to your question)

 

Early Church Fathers On The Resurrection Of The Body

 

Pope Clement I
"Let us consider, beloved, how the Master is continually proving to us that there will be a future resurrection, of which he has made the Lord Jesus Christ the firstling, by raising him from the dead. Let us look, beloved, at the resurrection which is taking place seasonally. Day and night make known the resurrection to us. The night sleeps, the day arises. Consider the plants that grow. How and in what manner does the sowing take place? The sower went forth and cast each of the seeds onto the ground; and they fall to the ground, parched and bare, where they decay. Then from their decay the greatness of the master’s providence raises them up, and from the one grain more grow
and bring forth fruit" (Letter to the Corinthians 24:1–6 [A.D. 80]).

 

The Apostles’ Creed
"I believe in . . . the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the flesh. Amen"
(Old Roman Symbol [A.D. 125]).

 

Aristides
"[Christians] have the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ himself impressed upon their hearts, and they observe them, awaiting the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come" (Apology 15 [A.D. 140]).

 

Second Clement
"Let none of you say that this flesh is not judged and does not rise again. Just think: In what state were you saved, and in what state did you recover your [spiritual] sight, if not in the flesh? In the same manner, as you were called in the flesh, so you shall come in the flesh. If Christ, the Lord who saved us, though he was originally spirit, became flesh and in this state called us, so also shall we receive our reward in the flesh. Let us, therefore, love one another, so that we may all come into the kingdom of God" (Second Clement 9:1–6 [A.D. 150]).

 

The Nicene Creed
"We confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; we look for a resurrection of the dead and life in the age to come. Amen" (Nicene Creed [A.D. 381]).

 

The Athanasian Creed

"[Jesus Christ] sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From there he shall come to judge the living and the dead; at his coming all men have to rise again with their bodies and will render an account of their own deeds; and those who have done good will go into life everlasting, but those who have done evil, into eternal fire [Rom. 2:6–11]. This is the Catholic faith, unless everyone believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved" (Athanasian Creed [A.D. 400]).

 

Link - https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/3064/documents/2019/1/Week 12 - The Rapture-Left Behind or Left OUT of Scripture.pdf

 

That last quote, The Athanasian Creed mixes resurrection with the 'Eternal Fire' of Hell doctrine which again is another doctrine not rooted in scripture. So although the Catholics don't subscribe to the Rapture doctrine it seems they do believe in some sort of resurrection and Hell for those who are not resurrected even among the early church fathers.

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Also...

This is a hairy subject, and it irritates some, but the idea that when the righteous die they directly ascend to heaven is not biblical.  It is so sensitive because there are so many who believe their family members who have died are looking down on them from heaven.  It’s a taboo subject to discuss.

 

But I guess since there are few believers here, and I’m usually talking to myself anyway, it doesn’t matter either way.  

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7 minutes ago, Michi713 said:

But I guess since there are few believers here, and I’m usually talking to myself anyway, it doesn’t matter either way.  

 

Lol!

 

I'm a believer just not a Christian one although I espouse Christian values - treat everyone as you wish to be treated, plus I quote from the Bible so I dunno what sort of believer that makes me.

 

Anyway, I do believe when we die we all go to heaven, except there are different heavens - 'in my fathers house are many mansions' mansions have many rooms hence I believe there are many heavens and depending on your state of mind when you pass over dictates where you go. I like the bouyancy analogy here, your soul will resonate at a certain state at death and you will ascend to a heaven to match your state or soul buoyancy.

 

Obviously bad people go to the lowest heaven and good people the higher. Hence its best to live a good life and be able to face death with a clear conscience.

 

Treat everyone as you wish to be treated, if we all did this it would be heaven on earth.

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Yeah I felt like moaning today.😁 Thanks for talking to me. 

 

I too believe in heaven on earth and am beginning to see glimpses of it as I let go of my old self. 

 

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Matthew 6:33


 

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13 hours ago, Michi713 said:

Yeah I felt like moaning today.😁 Thanks for talking to me. 

 

I too believe in heaven on earth and am beginning to see glimpses of it as I let go of my old self. 

 

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Matthew 6:33


 

 

I believe we can have it. Jesus or the man we know as Jesus came and established the kingdom in his lifetime, supposedly he paid for it with his life. Whatever the truth of that story, the man we call Jesus was a powerful spiritual being who gave us a clear spiritual message, all we have to do is live by it.

 

There lies the problem.

 

I'm not so certain that the evil forces against us are as powerful as we may think. The biggest problem we have is the greed of men. We have the technology to make paradise, buildings, transportation, farming and food production with city based hydroponic farms, allocating shares to employees to benefit from profit share in their company would evenly distribute the wealth created. The solutions to all our problems exist, its just we have been using the wrong technologies and theories, inefficient car engines because it is more profitable despite the pollution, using  diesel rather than vegetable oil to run diesel engines on when in fact they were originally designed for vegetable oil - a sustainable carbon neutral and cheap fuel, but apparently everyone – think tanks and universities forgot about that so when we had the oil crisis in the 70’s instead of just switching to vegetable oil to keep the trains and busses going they cried nothing can be done!! Everlasting lightbulbs were invented maybe a 100 years ago but still they produced inferior ones, the theory of planned obsolescence which states that you build in failure to everything you build so it only has a specific lifetime before a new one needs to be bought to keep the economy going seems to be in full swing despite its  obvious disadvantages of expense waste and pollution. The universities and government think tanks stay silent on these issues and allow big business to get away with it which shows how far the corruption goes. People like Dyson moving their capitalist businesses to poor countries to take advantage of low wages and taxation is a disgrace, the government should hit him with high import tax to discourage that sort of behaviour but again the politicians are on the side of big business and not its citizens.

 

Well I believe that there will be a change, either a major environmental disaster or an economic disaster affecting the poorest nations or the mother of all wars, something will happen if we don't change before and at that point we will change. People are'nt all bad despite what some members on here think, the masses are not all sheep and when pushed past their limit will respond. The controllers think they have the power but they don't we do.

 

If we all just live by the golden rule of all religions - treat everyone as you wish to be treated, then we can have heaven on earth, which I think was the plan for us all along.

 

Jesus did his bit, now its up to us, but unfortunately we are hypnotized by our rulers, the people want better but they don't know better is possible, they believe the lies from the politicians and our universities and think tanks are all bought and paid for, when we fix that anything is possible.

 

There are so many solutions, more than is practible to write here, the only thing holding us back is ourselves.

 

Have hope - we can do it and I think even the psycopaths in charge will eventually have to step back when their actions and plans take us to the inevitable social, economic or enviromental disaster. Shame it has to come to that, maybe we'll turn before the worst happens or maybe we need the worst to happen to change our ways.

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On 5/13/2021 at 9:21 PM, Michi713 said:

Yeah I felt like moaning today.😁 Thanks for talking to me. 

 

I too believe in heaven on earth and am beginning to see glimpses of it as I let go of my old self. 

 

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Matthew 6:33


 

Well, I for one have actually read what you have been writing. I just do not always think it is necessary to comment or add anything to what you have written. However, seeing the subject of the thread, I would like to ask you a question: 'How do you interpret Matthew 6:24?'. I have read many interpretations from many different people. I actually think this verse is very important in light of the end times, but reading certain modern interpretations, it looks like many have not really understood the gravity of the verse. What is your take on this?

 

https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-24.htm

 

'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.'

(I am aware the KJV uses the word mammon instead of just money, which can also be seen as material wealth in general.)

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Good afternoon @Michi713 and @pi3141.

 

I love reading this section of the forum and I find it fascinating. I wondered if either of you have come across Jonathan Kleck and if you have seen the following presentpresentation:

 

 

 

I'm really not sure what to make of him, his story or this presentation. But there is quite a bit of information that I've never seen before and I don't think it can be dismissed either. I don't want to give any details away in case you haven't seen it, but it was really eye opening for me. However, I have an off feeling about him and I'm really not sure what to think. 

 

If either of you have any comments I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on this video and the man himself. With so many false prophets and false idols, it's become very difficult to discern truth on this planet. Look forward to hearing from you. 👍

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On 5/16/2021 at 3:16 AM, Mr KLaaTu said:

Well, I for one have actually read what you have been writing. I just do not always think it is necessary to comment or add anything to what you have written. However, seeing the subject of the thread, I would like to ask you a question: 'How do you interpret Matthew 6:24?'. I have read many interpretations from many different people. I actually think this verse is very important in light of the end times, but reading certain modern interpretations, it looks like many have not really understood the gravity of the verse. What is your take on this?

 

https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-24.htm

 

'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.'

(I am aware the KJV uses the word mammon instead of just money, which can also be seen as material wealth in general.)


Thank you for the verse.  I would like to hear your interpretation as well.  

 

I like Bengel’s interpretation of the verse:

 

The heart of man cannot be so free as not to serve either God or (mammon)

Means there are only two choices for man: worldliness or godliness.  There’s no opting out.

 

“nor can it serve them both at once; (Although very many think themselves thoroughly versed in this art of combining both) for it either still remains in enmity with God or it takes God’s part.”

Means we only kid ourselves thinking we can walk the line between worldliness and godliness.  Worldliness is indulgence in pleasure and avoidance of pain, the will of the self.  This is hypocritical, because to follow Jesus is to put his will before your own at every moment, even if it’s painful.

 

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/bengel/matthew/6.htm

 

Mammon has the same meaning as Plutus among the Greeks. It is not known that the Jews ever formally worshipped this idol, but they used the word to denote wealth.

 

Plutus, in Greek religion, is god of abundance or wealth.  In Aristophanes’ play Plutus, the god of wealth is blind and cannot tell good from evil.  Plutus, the god of wealth, is depicted as a blind beggar.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutus_(play)

 

Wealth as a blind beggar is illustrative of its effects on us.  

Wealth causes spiritual darkness, so it is incompatible with God.  

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On Matthew 6:24

 

I had a dream this morning that demonstrated to me the downward spiral from indulgence to immorality.  
It played out like the sequence in The Garden of Earthly Delights.

 

 

 

 

4E53622A-5D59-473C-B9AD-FE68B6F732E1.jpeg

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On 5/16/2021 at 9:16 AM, Morpheus said:

Good afternoon @Michi713 and @pi3141.

 

I love reading this section of the forum and I find it fascinating. I wondered if either of you have come across Jonathan Kleck and if you have seen the following presentpresentation:

 

Thanks.  Never heard of him.  I’ll watch it tonight. 

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On 5/16/2021 at 9:16 AM, Morpheus said:

Jonathan Kleck


Thanks for the video. 


After watching this guy my light fixture looked like a locust, everything looked like a locust.  That’s what happens when one is immersed in occult symbols and learning the deep things of Satan. 

 

He repeats the same points and images without unpacking any of it.  He needs to do more reading and less melodrama.  For instance, there is validity to his DNA idea.  The book The Cosmic Serpent is a good place to start.  Also, looking into developments in “junk DNA” research would help him.  Linguistic scholars have claimed it fits the pattern of a language.  What symbolic connection does DNA have to Satan?  Possibly sex and death.

 

Jonathan talks about John 10:34 and Ps 82:6 and decides we are angels trapped in human host bodies that Lucifer feeds off of.  A creative way of putting it but I disagree.

 

Psalm 8:5

For thou hast made him (man) a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

 

The correct interpretation of “you are gods” is we are magistrates, a jury.  Not angels, not literal gods.  But what are we supposed to be judging? 

 

The Lords Prayer in Matthew 6:9-13, declares “for thine is the kingdom.”  In saying the Lord’s Prayer one declares acceptance and allegiance to God, his word, and his law.  And that the universe, this world, and ourselves belong to God, not Satan.  This choice is given to us to determine willfully.

 

God gave Adam and Eve garments of animal skin representing the downgrade of our species.  But he also put an enmity between the woman and her seed and Satan and his seed.  Jesus is the enmity and our redeemer if we so choose.  To follow him is to study his words and decide to upgrade from animal status or not. 

 

Jesus says in Matthew 7:24

Therefore, whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock.

 

Though most of his claims about the Vatican, occult teachings, and popular culture are true, it is all Babylon:  confusion.  To wallow in it breeds confusion in the mind.  

 

Even though it is entertaining, dwelling on the deep things of Satan is contrary to what Jesus wants us to do.  For that reason I believe Justin is mostly spinning his wheels, not going anywhere, and trying to take us along.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Michi713 said:


Thanks for the video. 


After watching this guy my light fixture looked like a locust, everything looked like a locust.  That’s what happens when one is immersed in occult symbols and learning the deep things of Satan. 

 

He repeats the same points and images without unpacking any of it.  He needs to do more reading and less melodrama.  For instance, there is validity to his DNA idea.  The book The Cosmic Serpent is a good place to start.  Also, looking into developments in “junk DNA” research would help him.  Linguistic scholars have claimed it fits the pattern of a language.  What symbolic connection does DNA have to Satan?  Possibly sex and death.

 

Jonathan talks about John 10:34 and Ps 82:6 and decides we are angels trapped in human host bodies that Lucifer feeds off of.  A creative way of putting it but I disagree.

 

Psalm 8:5

For thou hast made him (man) a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

 

The correct interpretation of “you are gods” is we are magistrates, a jury.  Not angels, not literal gods.  But what are we supposed to be judging? 

 

The Lords Prayer in Matthew 6:9-13, declares “for thine is the kingdom.”  In saying the Lord’s Prayer one declares acceptance and allegiance to God, his word, and his law.  And that the universe, this world, and ourselves belong to God, not Satan.  This choice is given to us to determine willfully.

 

God gave Adam and Eve garments of animal skin representing the downgrade of our species.  But he also put an enmity between the woman and her seed and Satan and his seed.  Jesus is the enmity and our redeemer if we so choose.  To follow him is to study his words and decide to upgrade from animal status or not. 

 

Jesus says in Matthew 7:24

Therefore, whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock.

 

Though most of his claims about the Vatican, occult teachings, and popular culture are true, it is all Babylon:  confusion.  To wallow in it breeds confusion in the mind.  

 

Even though it is entertaining, dwelling on the deep things of Satan is contrary to what Jesus wants us to do.  For that reason I believe Justin is mostly spinning his wheels, not going anywhere, and trying to take us along.

Thank you so much for the response Michi. 

 

Well, he thinks he's a angel hear to spread gods word, which I think can be dangerous when you have over 100k subscribers. He also says god is speaking with him and sending him on missions  And that's the next issue I have, he's still on YouTube and that's a big red flag for me.

 

As for the other things you refer to in relation to his interpretation of the scriptures, he seems to have some programme that gives you every word meaning of the Bible. 

 

He's interesting I'll give him that. What did you think about the outside of the Vatican building looking like a serpent? I've seen the hall look like a serpent, but not the outside, that blew my mind. And also the largest alter in the world is of a dead sheep, surrounded by fallen angels in a sea of sperm being devoured by a snake. I've never heard anyone say those things before.  

 

Maybe he's become more refined, because that was an old video and I've watched other vidoes lately being quite taken aback at what he says. But then I have zero experience of reading and interpreting the scriptures, so to a complete amateur like me, he would appear to be quite propehtic. 

 

However, this is why I am asking you because I cannot make head nor tale of anything he says because I simply cannot validate it one way or another. I only have his word. 

 

Thank you for taking the time to watch that, I really appreciate you coming back to me and appreciate the time you've taken to review and respond. 🙏❤️

Edited by Morpheus
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On 5/18/2021 at 3:05 AM, Michi713 said:

On Matthew 6:24

 

I had a dream this morning that demonstrated to me the downward spiral from indulgence to immorality.  
It played out like the sequence in The Garden of Earthly Delights.

 

 

 

 

4E53622A-5D59-473C-B9AD-FE68B6F732E1.jpeg

 

I have referenced a part of the painting you mention before. Maybe some people had noticed. 

 

I actually think Matthew 6:24 is a very important aspect of Jesus' teachings and plays an important part in the end times. If I examine the people I have met and the conversations I have had, very rarely do they not start speaking about money and what they can or cannot(possessions/travel) do with or without it. A recent example would be the raise in bitcoin value, which multiple people have already mentioned to me. They say something along the lines as, 'oh, I should have invested my money in it, I would have made a fortune.' But, where did this added value come from? Scarcity? Higher demand? Acceptance? It seems to come from nowhere right? All these people seem to think that is perfectly normal. That is how it works. However, when things on this planet need to be fixed, people need to be helped, in certain cases, there is no budget. None of these people ever seem to mention that added value for something useless can come out of thin air, but this make believe value can not be generated for something important. No, then there is debt. Interesting isn't it?

 

I think certain people have completely missed the point of how easy it actually is to have the 'kingdom of God' on this planet. And it simply has to do with choosing a path that is described as difficult in biblical texts. But it really is only difficult for those that do not/can not(because of their own selfishness, ego) follow Matthew 6:24. 

 

It is indeed very easy to accept the way of the world. And with certain steps, it is required to only think of oneself. You climb higher and higher in a system that expects you to throw all your values and morality out of the window for an extra buck. If you don't, your neighbor will figuratively climb on top of you. In the end, after you are consumed by all of this material gain, revolving your life around it, you might realize you have gained nothing at all. You came here with empty pockets and all you end up with is a bunch of useless junk you believe to have value. Time better spent understanding and helping others wasted on lining your pockets, acting very much like the simpler animals on this planet. For a short while, this might seem like fun to some, indulging in simple pleasures as they are there for the taking. But when the check comes you will find that the bill is much, much higher than you were willing to pay.

 

Have a nice day!

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On 5/20/2021 at 2:38 PM, Morpheus said:

What did you think about the outside of the Vatican building looking like a serpent?

Sure is compelling.  Rumor is the word Vatican means “divining serpent.”


I’m reading Graham Hancock’s Fingerprints of the Gods and came upon this Olmec sculpture called ‘Man in Serpent.’

It illustrates Justin’s point of the snake ‘feeding’ on humans.  
 

In the book there are references to a Christ-like figure who traveled to Central and South America way before the time of Christ.  He taught people to love one another and other wisdom, but there was also a serpent. 
In some cultures, notably the descendants of the Aztecs, the serpent won the allegiance of the people and they continued barbarism and bloody human sacrifices. 
 

E37EB3B0-4865-43B0-8163-E3DFA877A728.jpeg

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16 hours ago, Mr KLaaTu said:

I actually think Matthew 6:24 is a very important aspect of Jesus' teachings and plays an important part in the end times. If I examine the people I have met and the conversations I have had, very rarely do they not start speaking about money and what they can or cannot(possessions/travel) do with or without it. A recent example would be the raise in bitcoin value, which multiple people have already mentioned to me. They say something along the lines as, 'oh, I should have invested my money in it, I would have made a fortune.' But, where did this added value come from? Scarcity? Higher demand? Acceptance? It seems to come from nowhere right? All these people seem to think that is perfectly normal. That is how it works. However, when things on this planet need to be fixed, people need to be helped, in certain cases, there is no budget. None of these people ever seem to mention that added value for something useless can come out of thin air, but this make believe value can not be generated for something important. No, then there is debt. Interesting isn't it?


Very insightful post and much to think about.  Think you nailed it!

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Posted (edited)
On 5/16/2021 at 2:16 PM, Morpheus said:

Good afternoon @Michi713 and @pi3141.

If either of you have any comments I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on this video and the man himself. With so many false prophets and false idols, it's become very difficult to discern truth on this planet. Look forward to hearing from you. 👍

 

Hi Morpheus, here's my take on it

 

14:40 where he see's a sheep I see a Mushroom. But I accept the sheep is there to.

 

16:11 He says Lucifer's purpose is to take energy from us for his kingdom which is what the Bible says where Lucifer states he will get men to bow down and worship him.

 

33:36 All the talk of Sheep look up Sir Walter Raleighs book 'The History Of The World' which also has a hidden goat hidden on its cover. Jesus is said to be the Lamb of God but this has several meanings. Astrotheological in the constellation of the Ram and metaphorically as Lambs are gentle and we should thus be the same. However if Lucifer has twisted Christianity to worship him rather than God then we are the sheep of his flock and he is the Judas goat that leads us to our doom. The imagery imposed is that of predatory the sheep or lambs are innocents ripe for slaughter by the higher beasts of nature. So it concerns me, where I see reference to lamb of God and pictures of Jesus holding lamb in his arm, I don't find it comforting. 

 

The whole sex theme runs through St Peters Basilica as well as other themes. St Peters Square is actually as circle. The central obelisk is of course phallic but it also serves as a sun dial. Finally the church is orientated and designed such that the end of the church is representative of female reproductive organs and of course at a specific time of year the sun penetrates deep into the church and illuminates those areas modeled after female reproductive systems. The whole thing is sexually and astronomically symbolic. The parallels he makes to the altar being the head of a sheep and the female reproductive system is interesting and I have seen the inside hall that looks like a serpent but had'nt noticed the outside looking like one as well.

 

There was a thread on the old forum (peace be upon it - joke) about Jesus being Lucifer, it seems obvious that if Lucifer wanted us to worship him for him to insert himself into an object of worship so as to covertly divert worship. For the Catholic Church to spending how ever much on these 'fantastic' religious items is directly against what a true church would be doing, the money would be going to the poor not self aggrandizement. I do believe the Catholic Church has been infiltrated from the start and any good it may originally have set out to do went horribly wrong, if indeed it was instigated for honorable means and not just as a system of control. If it was always intended to control then there can be no doubt that the whole thing is satanic or Luciferian. But maybe we can give Constantine the benefit of the doubt maybe he was trying to do some good by introducing a new religion. The message is still there, he faithfully carried that into it.

 

However this whole Serpent and Satan symbology all started with the Roman church, they invented the devil, called him Satan and then needed to justify the doctrine in scripture so they associated the Serpent in the Garden Of Eden with Satan. Funny thing about that story, the Serpent was present in the Garden Of Eden and tempted Eve, for its punishment it was made to go on its belly. But wait - it was a serpent before it was cursed so didn't it already go on its belly? Or did it have legs, so in fact it was less like a snake and more like a Lizard? Not sure, the Bible is unclear, its mistakes like this that signal its written by men and not God or at least edited by men/magicians for there own purpose - to cast a spell on you.

 

52:52 He brings up Nimrod and Semiramis worship morphing into Catholicism, this is correct, much of the Christian writings are taken from earlier Pagan stories and myths. This has been proved by religious scholars, religious representatives such as Rabbi's, Priests and theologians etc in the Anchor Bible series translation of the the early Biblical texts. Its undeniable when you read enough that all the OT books are based on earlier beliefs and have been appropriated and then the sources vilified as Pagan and Heathenism and by association Devil worship, when in fact we see the opposite may be true, some early Pagan systems worshiped the One God as the creator of all things and only venerated the Sun as a symbol or emblem of Gods power.

 

Anyway he's quoting from the KJV bible which is not a great translation and he's discussing Hell and Satan, two Roman myths, if he speaks to God I would have thought God would have told him about that. Plus he's quoting from Revelation and that piece of work is heavily debated as to its meaning and timing. I think it was put there by dark magicians.

 

1:29:17 He is talking about the upside down cross and the keyhole shape of St Peters Square (Circle) well that ties in with Jesus' in Mathew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

 

1:30:15 Sun worship. Well if you read my posts you will see I make the same charge, as do the Muslims, they accuse the people of the book as having turned to Sun worship. Christians worship on Sunday, they celebrate Harvest Festival the fruition of bounty from the Suns rays, they build their churches orientated to sunrise and sunset, their Saint days are usually equinoxes or Sun's transit into new constellation, St Peters square is a sundial, the Vatican own telescopes trained on the Sun, their Holy Communion wafers sometimes have lines from the centre out looking like sunrays, it goes on and on, once you see it you can't unsee it. So yes in religion there is a huge amount of sun worship and this is the issue, I don't think the people congregating understand the symbology I don't even think the vicars and priests presiding over the ceremony understand it anymore (if they ever did) But veneration of the Sun as an emblem of God's power or of his creation is not necessarily a bad thing if you know what you are doing, my suspicion is its being used by dark magicians to transpose worship from God to Lucifer where the Sun is worshiped as God instead of as his symbol.

 

1:37:20 He's back with being food for Satan and the bottomless pit

 

1:57:21 The lock, cross upside down becoming a serpent - here he's talking about inversion which is indeed the way the game works, everything is subtly inverted or misdirected to channel power. I agree with this analogy. 

 

He's got some great information but he seems caught up in the old paradigm, that is the spiritual world view as given by the Roman church, he's prophesying we're in end times and put a new spin on it with the Cain Abel meaning Cannibal. We fell in original sin. This is the trap the magicians have set, its put out a spell and a blueprint in the form of Revelations and hope people work towards it.


Now I think the Roman church was infiltrated and changed into the Luciferian/Satan Sun worship cult its become and the Satanists are now demonizing the church for its past crimes and taking the rational stance that it now upholds logic and reason and science. Its being very clever in twisting the narrative and part of that narrative is to demonize the churches past transgressions and current direction. I'm afraid the church has lost its way and is stumbling around looking for direction. Its blind to its predicament. The forces of darkness can use that. So he's using language and interpretation based on Ancient writings which have been taken from Pagan sources. Now I believe that light was born out of darkness, hence for me it was the dark magicians that first found these powers and realized there was a dark force in existence, later the sons of light discovered what the dark magicians found and realizing there must be a polarizing good source there must be ways to communicate with it, hence our knowledge of good was born from our knowledge of evil. Thats just my opinion. So quoting from sources they may have been tampered with by the dark magicians is a risky thing. You are trying to define the reality with their ideas. How do we know the story of the garden of Eden as given in the second creation story is correct. In the Bible Genesis first states that 'He created Them' then it goes on to a second story which details the fall in Eden. How do we know its correct? 

 

Jesus, or the man we know as Jesus put an end to the old ways and beliefs. He gave us a new covenant so picking apart the old writings may not be very productive.

 

But hey those Americans don't half get some dark commercials - I haven't seen them here in the UK.

 

3:23:59 Verily Verily! This is the problem with quoting from KJ this prosaic language is not part of the original writings and may be a big read flag for it not being original. While I'm at it I'll mention my understanding of the phrase 'in those days' as he quoted it in Genesis, as I understand it, it is a similar device to 'once upon a time' that is, if I start a story with the words 'once upon a time' you know the following statement will be a story of some description, maybe moralistic or humorous or anything but you know its not real. As I understand it 'in those days' is the same thing, its to signal that the following story is metaphorical or moralistic or a warning or something but not reality.

 

3:27:27 He correctly identifies that the Roman church is Luciferian and that only those at the top are aware of it and through inversion they pervert worship towards Lucifer and away from God. The moment you go into a church you may be stepping away from God - God is everywhere, the kingdom of heaven is in you not in your churches or mansions. According to one website I read the word 'Church' originally meant house of the devil and served as a means to warn people away from those buildings. I haven't found confirmation on that yet.

 

3:29:30 He's going on that the world is a prison and we are evil and the only way to be saved is to convert! This is the same message as the church he is deriding. The Roman Catholic Church. When in fact this life is a gift and you are here to experience and enjoy it.

 

Finally he reveals his church and announces the end times I don't accept the end time prophecy, he also says the way to Jesus is to invert everything, well inversion is Satanic and Luciferian so what does he mean?

 

Good info in there but he appears to be under the Roman spell of inherent sin and end times prophecy. I don't agree with those interpretations. The thing is these Revelations and corresponding references to it may be the Cabal's way to bring it about. Its a self fulfilling prophecy but one thats not ordained to occur unless we bring it about. We already have idiot Christians supporting Israeli soldiers because they believe it signals the end times and they want to be raptured. When in fact the whole rapture thing is made up but it helps the Cabal/dark magicians in their plan to enslave us under their God and destroy what we've built. I see from Wiki the church he's from prophesied the return of Christ. (face palm) Which didn't happen.

 

Its good to see other churches do see whats happened to the Roman church but it seems they are also  under the same spell. What we see is infighting between the different denominations, there are so many different sects its unreal. The dark magicians have set this up and they have programmed a religious war into the 3 main faiths, Jews don't accept Jesus, Christians don't accept Judaism and the Muslims think they both got it wrong and they have the truth, certainly Christian and Muslim talk about the end war when the Muslims believe they must convert everyone and the Christians believe they will be taken up. But both believe in its inevitability and are ready to do their bit when their savior returns. Religion has twisted their minds, I caught a bit of an Arabic TV program and there was a woman interviewing the Muslim man and he would not look at her, he explained that he would look at the ceiling or floor or door rather than her because she is sin. In the Daily Mail I watched a video clip of them publicly flogging a woman for speaking to a man on the phone, its barbaric and exactly the outcome dark magicians working for Satan or Lucifer would want. As is 'the end times'


 

Edited by pi3141
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