Attitudes To Vaxers

[Shining-one]

Heard today my brother's neighbour suffered a stroke 3 weeks after receiving her vaccine. Although nobody can prove a connection, the woman herself blames the vaccine. One other neighbour - a Jehova's witness - was shocked and "possibly" more likely not to vaccinate.
There is more:
On sharing this news today, one lady in a shop got upset with me and stormed off. "I'm sick of this conspiracy crap!" she yelled.
What should be our attitude to those who follow official guidelines, often in the hope of future holidays?
I think maybe the majority of us make mistakes. The psychology term here is "ambivalence" and was used to describe the schizophrenic thought process. This is where desire is split into two opposing opposites. The first desire may be to not have the vaccine. The second desire is to have the vaccine - the motive being this is justified by the ability to live a normal life. To justify this motive, the person reacts strongly against contrasting evidence. Put in simple terms self delusion. To refuse the vaccine requires acceptance of the fact we live in an unethical and corrupt society. That in turn requires resistance. It is much easier to delude yourself you actually want the vaccine. That nobody is forcing it. Everbody is having it. And yet, we know the truth is the ability to have any freedom at all depends upon set conditions. Governments claim they have the right to decide risk factors regarding medication and vaccines. Neither are these people scientifically literate.
My own attitude is I feel sorry for the lady who suffered a stroke. If it was indeed connected. Now she has deep regrets yet there was nothing anyone could do.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Shining-one

[Shining-one]

I repeat the issue for me isn't that a vaccine was being offered. The issue is it's being forced by blackmail, censorship of the media, intimidation, propaganda and witch-hunt syndrome.
Then there is the question of scientific etiquette. Surely no two people will simply react to a drug the same way? That's not biology. Bruce Lee actually died due to acute reaction to a headache pill. For many, it was a safe remedy but for Bruce it proved fatal.
So for the lady who lives next door it's very probable the vaccine has wrecked her health. The sad thing is it wasn't totally her choice. She just assumed the majority view is the correct view. And the reason people who hear these stories will scoff is called by Freud ambivalence. Yes, they have doubts but the desire to maintain a safe and secure conception of reality creates delusion.

[Mikheil]

10 minutes ago, Shining-one said:

I repeat the issue for me isn't that a vaccine was being offered. The issue is it's being forced by blackmail, censorship of the media, intimidation, propaganda and witch-hunt syndrome.
Then there is the question of scientific etiquette. Surely no two people will simply react to a drug the same way? That's not biology. Bruce Lee actually died due to acute reaction to a headache pill. For many, it was a safe remedy but for Bruce it proved fatal.
So for the lady who lives next door it's very probable the vaccine has wrecked her health. The sad thing is it wasn't totally her choice. She just assumed the majority view is the correct view. And the reason people who hear these stories will scoff is called by Freud ambivalence. Yes, they have doubts but the desire to maintain a safe and secure conception of reality creates delusion.

I hate to disagree with you. but I must. I have a few friends in SA, a few in the UK, a couple in Central America and one in Malaysia.

 

I told them a LONG time ago, when they were still harping on about mRNA, that I would never get vaccinated with anything or for anything, because I've never had one and never will.  At first they were skeptical, and then a week or two later I got an email with a link to a URL decrying the proposed 'vaccine'. ALL of them looked on the web did some research and then started mailing their friends INCLUDING ME, warning them not to consider the vaccine.

 

I don't believe there is ANY excuse for idiocy. Anyone who blindly accepts what they are told about ANYTHING which may affect their lives, deserves all they get. I see all the crap about Bitcoin. I did my research, make a very small test and came to the conclusion that it just isn't worth it. just ONE EMP will make you penniless, AND there is a lot of scamming involved as well.

 

I only believe something if I can gather evidence about it, enough for me to make an informed decision. I have NEVER allowed anyone to "talk me out of" or "talk me into", something that I have already decided and I do mean NO ONE.

 

 People who allow themselves to be led, coerced, threatened to do something they know is WRONG are spineless, useless, morons. 

 

I feel NOTHING for them and when the shit hits the fan and the side effects start to show. I will LAUGH at them.

 

Survival of the fittest. These kind of people don't deserve to survive or breed more like them.

[Shining-one]

Sadly, the truth is the overwhelming majority of people today seem to have no conception of principle. That is, how to stand up for a cause.
There are many reasons for this but mostly it's socially based.
It does annoy me when you get these floppy people who brag they'll never have the vaccine and then cave in later on. In fact someone who made that statement three weeks ago caved in today.
Does that make him an enemy? Well, really, I don't approve but it's his body and his life. Yes, it makes my position more of a minority (by far) but the same thing (and worse) happened to Muhammad Ali. I recall reading even the ultra religious black muslims advised Ali to do his tour in Vietnam. They all caved. He didn't. He was arrested on the spot when refusing induction. When most of his friends fled I guess Ali understood they just weren't made of the same stuff. Yet it didn't rock his inner strength.
To people who take this vaccine I will say openly:
(1) It has commercial motivation. This can be proven by simply requesting the Sputnik vaccine instead. Or the fact that, even if Putin's vaccine is better, that doesn't carry any weight. Hence - it's about profit.
(2) No vaccine will react the same way in an individual.
(3)I have medical documents that testify vaccines caused mental retardation in a few cases. These I came across 3 years ago.
I could go on.
People must decide but I have no time to run their lives.

[Ergo Storm]

15 hours ago, Shining-one said:

People must decide but I have no time to run their lives.

 

Exactly.  It must be informed consent.

[Mr H]

People are not informed at all.

 

Guy just moved in proper working class Newcastle lad working on a building site. Got chatting.

 

He smiled and said he was clever because he's chosen to have the Pfizer one because 7 people have died from the AstraZeneca one. I told him that there is a government reporting site where you can look at total recorded fatalities from both vaccines and both have reported deaths in there hundreds. 

 

His face went white as a sheet. Then he came back and said, ah well a few hundred out of 18million vaccinated isn't that bad is it? Gotta do yer bit like.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Mr H

[Shining-one]

Sure. Indicates a problem. Isn't it the case the educational system declined? Locally I struggle to get any person to debate beyond the realms of Facebook and what we had for dinner. Music is out. You get strange looks if you try to chat about rock or blues. It's not very nice to say but most people just seem to exist. No interest in music, philosophy, arts or awareness of science. This I guess is down to emphasis on work and money. Coupled with educational cuts. Therefore to blame people personally I find a bit harsh as there are environmental factors. Added to that they've been denied direct information. I know lots of quite nice people who trusted in the official line but clearly lack the attributes needed to make their own choice. I mean, back in the sixties none of this would have washed. Students themselves were quite free-thinking and anti establishment.
Nothing I can do about it. What I hear most is the line "I'll wait and see how others get along," not realising side effects can begin after birth of children. Mostly immigrants seem to be more skeptical but local people remain clueless and weak-willed.

[gibby]

true

 

even intelligent people are good at turning a blind eye

 

you just wont get through to some people

 

its amazing how  unresponsive some people are even when you point stuff out to them

[Shining-one]

I was chatting today to some so-called anti vaxers. It became very clear those I chatted to would cave in under the slightest pressure. One of them explained he was an anti vaxer till the time came when he'd be forced to have it. At that point I clarified that when I say I'm not having a vaccine, I mean exactly that. The response I got was that I would have to give way if faced with social exclusion.
Really?
I won't go into details but I was pretty much on my own in Russia travelling when the country was in chaos. I met a couple of American marines doing the same thing - looking for food and coping. We were in it for the experience and challenge. There was prostitution, money laundering, maffia and guns. I was stopped at gun point a few times as well. I guess it taught me to be street wise and adapt.
After todays conversation one thing became abundantly clear. There is no point at all relying on others who say they "won't have this" and "will refuse such and such". First sign of a threat and I dare say they'll cave in like a roof with wood rot. Regarding foreign nationals I'm more persuaded many of those will help make up a larger number of anti vaxers. However, the percentage overall could be low.
So, I'm no longer relying on others to be in my position. However, I won't let that affect me. Added to that I bear no ill will and no plans to severe friendships. Just the bottom line is these people are all in all weak and seem to have no principles or beliefs to fall back on. It's very like the peasants in 20th century Tsarist Russia who ignored the revolutionary students. There was no way to get through to them.

[The Old Knight]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:35 PM, Shining-one said:

Music is out. You get strange looks if you try to chat about rock or blues. It's not very nice to say but most people just seem to exist. No interest in music, philosophy, arts or awareness of science.

 

Maybe this will put a smile on your face.

 

 

[zArk]

foundation of UK , England is individual choice

anything that infringes upon that is abhorrent

 

trouble is morons dont really understand this and theres loads of them around

[Shining-one]

I still have as close a friendship with a woman I've known some years. She had the vaccine as she has underlying health problems. Her son is anti vax and she knows I am. It hasn't altered our friendship at all.
In other cases friction broke out. A major family rift I believe now permanent. However, the vaccine issue was only one factor amongs others.
For the most part friends who simply don't see the dangers involved are still good to me and tolerant. So, I try to be tolerant too.
There's a teaching in Zen:
If a person makes a mistake in life and wakes up to meet a new day, the sun still shines on him and water doesn't turn to mud when he tries to drink. So, who are we to severe our frienship altogether? Maybe many vaxers will have regrets and join in protest.

[shadowmoon]

On 4/1/2021 at 10:00 PM, Mikheil said:

I see all the crap about Bitcoin.

 

I would buy gold coins before any bitcoin. a big power outage and you're looking to swap a usb stick with bitcoins for some food?

"Honestly mate it was worth 60K last week.!"