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Raw vegan cats and dogs


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54 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

 

 

 

This is really not funny. 

Dog are omnivorous and need some meat to be healthy and stay alive. 

 

Cats are pure carnivores and must eat meat. 

That cat in the video will have health problems if encouraged and allowed to carry on eating fruit. 

 

It has been documented that some vegetarians and vegans have tried to impose their dietary choices on their pets. 

It never ends well  :0(

BC 

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2 minutes ago, Basket Case said:

 

This is really not funny. 

Dog are omnivorous and need some meat to be healthy and stay alive. 

 

Cats are pure carnivores and must eat meat. 

That cat in the video will have health problems if encouraged and allowed to carry on eating fruit. 

 

It has been documented that some vegetarians and vegans have tried to impose their dietary choices on their pets. 

It never ends well  :0(

BC 

A very good subject for debate but i will have to do a lot of research to prove you wrong. I feel confident i could. Lot of work for me though. I ll pass on this one

Just breifly...i did see a cat that looked very good that ate only fr and veg its whole life

Humans supposed to be veg fr and grain because of their teeth and length of digestive tract. 

2 men ate nothing but meat and fat for 1 year resulting in superior health

Gross overweight aussie man ate potatoes only for 1 year resulted in losing 2 or 300lbs and felt really good. He really famous on utube

We all got a lot of ideas about diet

We be proved wrong almost every day

Those vids were not meant as a joke

More like for education

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1 minute ago, Jikwan said:

A very good subject for debate but i will have to do a lot of research to prove you wrong. I feel confident i could. Lot of work for me though. I ll pass on this one

Just breifly...i did see a cat that looked very good that ate only fr and veg its whole life

 

I've had cats around me in my close and extended family all my life. 

My Mother is a fully trained and qualified vetinary nurse.. 

 

Try me  :0)

 

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Just now, Basket Case said:

 

I've had cats around me in my close and extended family all my life. 

My Mother is a fully trained and qualified vetinary nurse.. 

 

Try me  :0)

 

Sounds tempting.....

 

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Just now, Jikwan said:

Sounds tempting.....

 

 

Whenever the topic of feline nutrition is discussed, the word “taurine” will surely come up, but do you really know what taurine is and why it’s important?

Taurine is an amino acid. For those of you who are interested in these things, its molecular structure is C2H7NO3S. Unlike most amino acids that connect in long chains with other amino acids to make all the various proteins needed for normal body function, taurine is found free in many of the body’s cells/tissues as well as within bile, a digestive liquid produced by the liver and secreted into the intestinal tract.

Taurine is considered an essential amino acid in cats. In other words, they require relatively large amounts of it in their diet. Omnivores like us can synthesize sufficient amounts of taurine from other amino acids (specifically converting methionine to cysteine to taurine). Cats can make some taurine, but the enzyme required to make it out of cysteine is in short supply and needed in other physiologic pathways. Therefore, without an adequate dietary supply of taurine, cats eventually become taurine deficient.

Taurine deficiency can have severe ramifications. The first disease that we knew was caused by taurine deficiency is a form central retinal degeneration (CRD). Taurine plays an important role in the structure of rods and cones within the eye’s retina as well as in an underlying tissue, the tapetum lucidum. Rods and cones convert different wavelengths of light into neural impulses that are sent to the brain, and the tapetum lucidum reflects light within the eye, making the feline sense of sight especially good at night. As these structures degrade due to a lack of taurine, vision begins to fail. The changes are not reversible, but if caught early enough, taurine supplementation can save whatever vision a cat has left.

More recently (in the 1980s), taurine deficiency was linked to a form of heart disease — dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM). It is thought that taurine within heart muscle cells helps maintain appropriate concentrations of calcium and other charged particles on either side of the cell membrane. Without enough taurine, the heart muscle cannot contract normally, which eventually leads to congestive heart failure. Dietary supplementation (usually 250 mg taurine given by mouth twice daily) can reverse dilated cardiomyopathy caused by taurine deficiency as long as the condition is caught early enough.

Taurine deficiency can also lead to reproductive failure, poor growth in kittens born to taurine-deficient queens, and gastrointestinal disturbances.

Barring mistakes in manufacturing, all commercially prepared cat foods now contain sufficient amounts of taurine (this wasn’t the case in the past), but taurine deficiency can still develop when cats are fed homemade diets. Taurine is found almost exclusively in animal-based sources of protein (meat, fish, etc.) so cats eating vegetarian or vegan diets are at highest risk. The feline body cannot store large amounts of taurine, so if you ever need or want to feed your cat a homemade food for an extended period of time, make sure you are using a recipe designed by a veterinary nutritionist who is familiar with your cat’s dietary needs.

 

https://www.petmd.com/blogs/nutritionnuggets/cat/dr-coates/2014/december/what-taurine-32287 

 

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BTW - my Mother is a Vegan by choice, citing animal cruelty as her motivation. 

She feeds her cats meat. 

 

I have 2 cats. 

They eat raw fish in the morning and raw chicken in the evening most days.. 

 

BC 

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8 minutes ago, Basket Case said:

 

Whenever the topic of feline nutrition is discussed, the word “taurine” will surely come up, but do you really know what taurine is and why it’s important?

Taurine is an amino acid. For those of you who are interested in these things, its molecular structure is C2H7NO3S. Unlike most amino acids that connect in long chains with other amino acids to make all the various proteins needed for normal body function, taurine is found free in many of the body’s cells/tissues as well as within bile, a digestive liquid produced by the liver and secreted into the intestinal tract.

Taurine is considered an essential amino acid in cats. In other words, they require relatively large amounts of it in their diet. Omnivores like us can synthesize sufficient amounts of taurine from other amino acids (specifically converting methionine to cysteine to taurine). Cats can make some taurine, but the enzyme required to make it out of cysteine is in short supply and needed in other physiologic pathways. Therefore, without an adequate dietary supply of taurine, cats eventually become taurine deficient.

Taurine deficiency can have severe ramifications. The first disease that we knew was caused by taurine deficiency is a form central retinal degeneration (CRD). Taurine plays an important role in the structure of rods and cones within the eye’s retina as well as in an underlying tissue, the tapetum lucidum. Rods and cones convert different wavelengths of light into neural impulses that are sent to the brain, and the tapetum lucidum reflects light within the eye, making the feline sense of sight especially good at night. As these structures degrade due to a lack of taurine, vision begins to fail. The changes are not reversible, but if caught early enough, taurine supplementation can save whatever vision a cat has left.

More recently (in the 1980s), taurine deficiency was linked to a form of heart disease — dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM). It is thought that taurine within heart muscle cells helps maintain appropriate concentrations of calcium and other charged particles on either side of the cell membrane. Without enough taurine, the heart muscle cannot contract normally, which eventually leads to congestive heart failure. Dietary supplementation (usually 250 mg taurine given by mouth twice daily) can reverse dilated cardiomyopathy caused by taurine deficiency as long as the condition is caught early enough.

Taurine deficiency can also lead to reproductive failure, poor growth in kittens born to taurine-deficient queens, and gastrointestinal disturbances.

Barring mistakes in manufacturing, all commercially prepared cat foods now contain sufficient amounts of taurine (this wasn’t the case in the past), but taurine deficiency can still develop when cats are fed homemade diets. Taurine is found almost exclusively in animal-based sources of protein (meat, fish, etc.) so cats eating vegetarian or vegan diets are at highest risk. The feline body cannot store large amounts of taurine, so if you ever need or want to feed your cat a homemade food for an extended period of time, make sure you are using a recipe designed by a veterinary nutritionist who is familiar with your cat’s dietary needs.

 

https://www.petmd.com/blogs/nutritionnuggets/cat/dr-coates/2014/december/what-taurine-32287 

 

Ok ok you win the 1st round

All i can say about this is everything a human and (in theory) an animal needs can be gotten from sunlight, air, prana. Theres quite a few bretharians never eating or even drinking water for years

Could be some animals can change their deficiency by absorbing it from sun, air etc

Pretty lame i hear you thinking

 

All i got to do to defeat your view is to find evidence of animals....even 1 single cat that has been raw fr and veg since birth

I might have a look

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1 minute ago, Jikwan said:

Ok ok you win the 1st round

 

It's not a battle. 

It's sharing important information. 

:0) 

 

Cats and some other animals being PURE carnivores is extremely important. 

I don't think that cats would be aware of the idea of sustenance available in different forms. 

 

Cats also are very vulnerable to a stop / severe reduction in their intake of food. 

If a cat eats nothing (due to illness or no availability of food) for 4 / 5 days it will die. 

Their Livers shut down very quickly. 

Cats have quite peculiar dietary requirements. 

 

BC 

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1 minute ago, Basket Case said:

 

It's not a battle. 

It's sharing important information. 

:0) 

 

Cats and some other animals being PURE carnivores is extremely important. 

I don't think that cats would be aware of the idea of sustenance available in different forms. 

 

Cats also are very vulnerable to a stop / severe reduction in their intake of food. 

If a cat eats nothing (due to illness or no availability of food) for 4 / 5 days it will die. 

Their Livers shut down very quickly. 

Cats have quite peculiar dietary requirements. 

 

BC 

How do you explain this then.?

Cats MUST eat meat and fish?

As long as they get their tourine all well

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5 minutes ago, Basket Case said:

 

It's not a battle. 

It's sharing important information. 

:0) 

 

Cats and some other animals being PURE carnivores is extremely important. 

I don't think that cats would be aware of the idea of sustenance available in different forms. 

 

Cats also are very vulnerable to a stop / severe reduction in their intake of food. 

If a cat eats nothing (due to illness or no availability of food) for 4 / 5 days it will die. 

Their Livers shut down very quickly. 

Cats have quite peculiar dietary requirements. 

 

BC 

Same goes for birds...they have no capacity for fasting

Dogs can fast well

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4 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

Cats MUST eat meat and fish?

As long as they get their tourine all well

 

This video is made by someone who has obviously researched Taurine. 

Eggs contain taurine. 

Eggs are not part of a RAW VEGAN diet, are they..?  :0)

 

This egg idea is new to me. 

Thanks 

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Ok, i take the topic seriously

 

Its all coming back to me.....

 

I mentioned bretharians, they dont eat or drink, some of them do but its next to nothing...very rarely

The masters of this lifestyle strongly reccomend you spend as much time with these people because it rubs off on you. Same as you spend much time with the wise...their wisdom can be somehow transferred

Well, i was told by the master i studied under recently about a couple of bretharians had an animal that dont eat or drink. Their ability rubbed off

This master aint the type to bullshit

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2 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

Well, i was told by the master i studied under recently about a couple of bretharians had an animal that dont eat or drink. Their ability rubbed off

 

I would suggest that these people are very powerful then, through years of experience and practice. 

Not your 'Average Joe'.. 

 

I had a good friend who was Vegan. She travelled to Brazil and met and stayed with Breatharians for many weeks. She was inspired but unable to practice it herself. 

 

I don't think dedicated vegans can give cats and dogs their 'vegan vibes'. Not quite the same thing, eh? 

 

BC 

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15 minutes ago, Basket Case said:

 

This video is made by someone who has obviously researched Taurine. 

Eggs contain taurine. 

Eggs are not part of a RAW VEGAN diet, are they..?  :0)

 

This egg idea is new to me. 

Thanks 

Also my previou post on bretharians

 

We may be onto something big here with the eggs

Im saying feed the cat just raw fr and veg plus 1 egg and it should thrive

Fish and meat are expensive and the great mafia is determined to close down the meat and fish industries

Fr and veg are dirt cheap

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Ok i tell you the modern, much more enlightened way of becoming bretharian

Rather than the old way of fasting fasting keep on fasting....the take less. Can they function with less?

If its yes then take even less than before...can you function? No, then eat just a little bit more so as to be able to function. Ok get used to that level. After a week or more take less

And so it goes till you can function on nothing

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2 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

I'm saying feed the cat just raw fr and veg plus 1 egg and it should thrive

 

This needs looking into properly. 

As far as I know cats get no nutritional value from fruit. They're mainly natural sugars and vitamins that cats either don't need nor can they absorb properly. 

And get next to no value at all from vegetables. 

Processed cat food isn't the best diet for cats either. 

It's normally about only 4%, meat with cereal and grain filler to bulk it up. It has taurine added in a supplementary form. 

Thinking about the egg idea, I did actually feed my cats egg but as part of a mix I used to make for them to get them to eat and absorb extra vitamins and minerals in a powder called SF50 (for cats - dogs and other pets) 

I used to mix 2 raw egg yolks into a can of raw tuna (very important that it's either raw or from a tin in SPRING WATER - not brine or oil) and then add a teaspoon of SF50. 

The mix is then given to each cat on a single tablespoon each day. 

 

Their feeding habits and timing have changed now but I should look into the SF50 powder again. It's sitting in my cupboard still. 

BC 

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14 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

Fish and meat are expensive

 

Raw meat is actually cheaper (and much more nutritious) than store bought processed cat food by volume and weight. 

(also cuts down on Vet bills) 

BC 

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7 minutes ago, Basket Case said:

 

This needs looking into properly. 

As far as I know cats get no nutritional value from fruit. They're mainly natural sugars and vitamins that cats either don't need nor can they absorb properly. 

And get next to no value at all from vegetables. 

Processed cat food isn't the best diet for cats either. 

It's normally about only 4%, meat with cereal and grain filler to bulk it up. It has taurine added in a supplementary form. 

Thinking about the egg idea, I did actually feed my cats egg but as part of a mix I used to make for them to get them to eat and absorb extra vitamins and minerals in a powder called SF50 (for cats - dogs and other pets) 

I used to mix 2 raw egg yolks into a can of raw tuna (very important that it's either raw or from a tin in SPRING WATER - not brine or oil) and then add a teaspoon of SF50. 

The mix is then given to each cat on a single tablespoon each day. 

 

Their feeding habits and timing have changed now but I should look into the SF50 powder again. It's sitting in my cupboard still. 

BC 

I wouldnt underestimate the bodys ability to extract the maximum out of anything you feed to it. All the time i hear of humans surviving because they had nothing other than axle grease and a few peices of leather

 

Im saying if you overfeed an animal its bodys intelligence will not be as keen as an unsatiated one

If its fed to the point of "always a little bit hungry" you should be able to feed it literally anything imo

 

You know it.....weve been lied to about practically everything....especially from the corrupted medical/dieticians

I believe in them less and less as i go

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10 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

You should be able to feed it literally anything imo

 

But it's a widely accepted fact that cats need taurine. (egg video) 

12 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

 

They cannot make / form / generate it themselves so need to ingest it, unlike dogs, humans and other animals.  

 

12 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

 

You know it.....weve been lied to about practically everything....especially from the corrupted medical/dieticians

I believe in them less and less as i go

 

 

I agree but we need to be careful and educated ourselves enough to make informed and safe decisions. 

BC 

 

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1 hour ago, Basket Case said:

BTW - my Mother is a Vegan by choice, citing animal cruelty as her motivation. 

She feeds her cats meat. 

 

I have 2 cats. 

They eat raw fish in the morning and raw chicken in the evening most days.. 

 

BC 

 

A couple of years ago, we used to sell loads of Benevo products.

Benevo – Animal friendly animal foods

 

Quote

Back in 2004, it became apparent to us the last meat in most veggie households was the meat their pets were eating. Many of those pets were rescue animals and so having rescued one animal, people found themselves with an ethical dilemma as they spooned out a less fortunate animal from a tin. For some, having to buy meat to feed a pet meant they had chosen not to have a pet at all.

Rather than campaign for change or beg the likes of Mars and Purina to listen, we believed, and still do, in providing real world alternatives to traditional meat pet foods ourselves. Replacing those essential nutrients found in meat with bio-available alternatives from non-animal sources. Working independently we could apply our knowledge and ethics without having to please shareholders. After a year of research and development we launched Benevo Dog and Benevo Cat as a solution to the ethical problem. Since then we have continued to invest, develop and pioneer meat-free pet food nutrition for the benefit of all animals with certified organic food, grain-free options and rawhide alternative treats to name but a few.

Our products are approved by the UK Vegan Society and Vegetarian Society. We are also PETA approved for not testing on animals and for two years running Benevo has achieved the highest level possible from the Good Shopping Guide’s Ethical Organisation Award of 100 out of 100. Also, the Ethical Consumer Magazine rate Benevo Dog Organic as the most ethical pet food with a score of 20/20.

If you have a dog or cat and are considering a more ethical pet food you can find our products in good healthfood stores, pet stores and by searching online.

 

I've never personally owned any cats or dogs, but I found this stuff quite questionable. Humans, being naturally omnivores, can always make the choice to become vegan or vegetarian. But cats and dogs, being natural carnivores, cannot make this choice. And this kind of vegan product should not be imposed on them, just to satisfy their owners' beliefs.

 

I know its no laughing matter, but I did once joke about wondering if all the cats that were 'going missing' were being fed this Benevo stuff, and had found some other home where 'proper' cat meat was provided for them.

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7 minutes ago, Grumpy Owl said:

 

A couple of years ago, we used to sell loads of Benevo products.

Benevo – Animal friendly animal foods

 

 

I've never personally owned any cats or dogs, but I found this stuff quite questionable. Humans, being naturally omnivores, can always make the choice to become vegan or vegetarian. But cats and dogs, being natural carnivores, cannot make this choice. And this kind of vegan product should not be imposed on them, just to satisfy their owners' beliefs.

 

I know its no laughing matter, but I did once joke about wondering if all the cats that were 'going missing' were being fed this Benevo stuff, and had found some other home where 'proper' cat meat was provided for them.

If the animal "owner" is observant and carefully thinks before making adjustments/modifications to the pets diet is all ok if he sees that the animal is thriving

We have been fed a lot of lies about diet including the view that humans need to eat meat to be healthy

There have been world class bodybuilders 100% fruitarian. Theyre fearsome looking dudes

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34 minutes ago, Jikwan said:

We have been fed a lot of lies about diet including the view that humans need to eat meat to be healthy

There have been world class bodybuilders 100% fruitarian. Theyre fearsome looking dudes

 

Agreed. 

But cats NEED taurine. 

Eggs might be sufficient. 

If I was going to try that as a main source of taurine I'd read as much information as possible before deciding. 

Cooked / raw - quantity - quality etc.. 

I wouldn't want to risk my cats short term or long term health and happiness. 

BC 

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3 hours ago, Basket Case said:

 

I have 2 cats. 

They eat raw fish in the morning and raw chicken in the evening most days.. 

 

BTW - not only is raw more natural (cats don't cook in the wild) - raw meat has a much higher content of taurine because cooking it vastly diminishes the taurine levels. 

BC 

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4 hours ago, Basket Case said:

 

BTW - not only is raw more natural (cats don't cook in the wild) - raw meat has a much higher content of taurine because cooking it vastly diminishes the taurine levels. 

BC 

Absolutely. Same should apply with eggs. 

 

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