Historian and Icke-fan demolishes Icke on Hitler

[Amalek_]

David please read this blogpost by a fan of yours

https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2020/11/28/david-ickes-misconceptions-about-national-socialist-germany/

[rideforever]

One interesting thing about liars is that they keep lying.  They feel insecurity and lie and the lies just continue.  Boris is doing that right now with Cronyvirus.

 

The problem with the Jews from my point of view is that they are not Jewish neither biologically nor religiously.  So they are people who've got this title  of chosen people by they don't live up to it, and so they lie and lie and that becomes their way of expressing themselves.

Genetically, most seemed to come down from the Black Sea region about 700 years ago through migration, and today very few practice Judaism beyond a few little bits.  Israel is rapidly changing to become a secular state.

 

Anyway lots to learn about living.  Be what you are, otherwise you'll start lying to protect an image.

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by rideforever

[EnigmaticWorld]

It's crazy how many twist "the big lie" thing. My people are dying because of their lack of knowledge.

Edited November 29, 2020 by EnigmaticWorld

[oz93666]

1 hour ago, Amalek_ said:

David please read this blogpost by a fan of yours

https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2020/11/28/david-ickes-misconceptions-about-national-socialist-germany/

 

This is a fairly well presented article ... The thrust  is that Icke is too critical of the NAZIs .. And , like the world he has been suckered into believing jews were exterminated in the camps ....

Quote from article    "The truth, however, is that Germany did not have any homicidal gas chambers in its camps during World War II, and did not conduct a program of genocide against Jews"

 

 He also refutes the idea that Mengele was evil and the widely held belief among many that after the war he continued mind control work for the CIA , despite testimony from many of his post war victims (Cathy O'Brian and others) ... Instead the author says Mengele retired quietly in Sth America. 

 

He gives no evidence to back up these assertions , this anonymous article cannot be taken seriously. 

[EnigmaticWorld]

1 hour ago, oz93666 said:

 

This is a fairly well presented article ... The thrust  is that Icke is too critical of the NAZIs .. And , like the world he has been suckered into believing jews were exterminated in the camps ....

Quote from article    "The truth, however, is that Germany did not have any homicidal gas chambers in its camps during World War II, and did not conduct a program of genocide against Jews"

 

 He also refutes the idea that Mengele was evil and the widely held belief among many that after the war he continued mind control work for the CIA , despite testimony from many of his post war victims (Cathy O'Brian and others) ... Instead the author says Mengele retired quietly in Sth America. 

 

He gives no evidence to back up these assertions , this anonymous article cannot be taken seriously. 

 

Not getting into what happened in the camps or the soviet reenactments as it's not good optics for this site.

 

I think you have a point about Mengele though. The guy sounded like a nutter to me, but some things like walls of eyes also sound nuts. I wish I could get my hands on those 3,300 notes of his that went up for auction to have a read.

 

[shabbirss]

history is written by the victorious.

[skitzorat]

On 11/29/2020 at 8:59 PM, EnigmaticWorld said:

I think you have a point about Mengele though. The guy sounded like a nutter to me, but some things like walls of eyes also sound nuts. I wish I could get my hands on those 3,300 notes of his that went up for auction to have a read

Your comment reminded me of this I read recently. A take I'd never considered before and some other interesting stuff about him that's come to light.

 

May I ask my dear reader whether he or she recognizes any of the following names:

Fritz Klein, Heinz Thilo, Bruno Kitt, Erwin von Helmersen, Werner Rohde, Hellmuth Vetter, Horst Schumann, Carl Clauberg, Hans Wilhelm König, Franz Lucas, Alfred Trzebinski, Oskar Dienstbach, Siegfried Schwela, Franz von Bodmann, Kurt Uhlenbroock, Eduard Wirths, Hans Münch, Johann Paul Kremer, Horst Fischer, Friedrich Entress?

 

http://www.renegadetribune.com/josef-mengele-the-creation-of-a-myth/

Edited February 26, 2021 by skitzorat

[Truthspoon]

On 11/29/2020 at 1:59 PM, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

Not getting into what happened in the camps or the soviet reenactments as it's not good optics for this site.

 

I think you have a point about Mengele though. The guy sounded like a nutter to me, but some things like walls of eyes also sound nuts. I wish I could get my hands on those 3,300 notes of his that went up for auction to have a read.

 

 

The whole idea of having doctors in a supposed 'death-camp' is a contradiction in terms.

 

The only way they could solve that problem was by making out that Mengele was some kind of sadistic nutcase who spent his time torturing people and performing lurid and bizarre experiments.

 

There were many German doctors working in the camps. In order to negate this fact it was necessary to create the myth of the evil Nazi doctor.

Just more fake history written by the victors.

 

The Holohoax is the final rabbit hole folks..... Fake Moon Landings and 9-11 are steps on the trail.... but once you get red pilled on the Holocaust you see and understand everything and every puzzle and riddle clicks into place and you finally understand WHO, WHY and HOW.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Truthspoon

[oddsnsods]

The guy makes a good argument.

 

Hitler was controlled ops tho.

[Lamp Of Truth]

On 11/29/2020 at 6:56 AM, Amalek_ said:

David please read this blogpost by a fan of yours

https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2020/11/28/david-ickes-misconceptions-about-national-socialist-germany/

 

It's rubbish like this that gives Icke, this forum and the truth movement in general a bad name. If you want to question the official story of the Holocaust that's fine but don't try and argue that Nazi Germany was a good place to live or that Hitler and his mates weren't as bad as the media would have you believe.

[Eldnah]

On 2/26/2021 at 6:46 PM, Truthspoon said:

 

The whole idea of having doctors in a supposed 'death-camp' is a contradiction in terms.

 

Concentration camps  - and death camps were 2 differrent things.

 

Although even then its not exactly relevant, 

 There were not only Jews in concentration camps - Jehovas witnesses, Gays political opponents all wound up there and some of these were later released - Thus the presence of doctors does not mean their was no holocaust 

 

 

[Eldnah]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:25 AM, oz93666 said:

 

This is a fairly well presented article ... The thrust  is that Icke is too critical of the NAZIs .. And , like the world he has been suckered into believing jews were exterminated in the camps ....

 

Not really - it distorts facts in order to create fthe facts it wants  

eg it implies a big allied cover up over Katyn forest - when there was no such thing - The Soviets lied - the West believed the falsified evidence -  The myth was perpetuated not by allied conspiracy but because the USSR controlled the records

 

It was only a few years  ago Putain accepted Russian responsibility and apologised to Poland (sort of in fact he said sorry we did it but it was the wests fault)

 

 

It also seeks to deny the Germans carried out experiments on Jews- 

 

That really doesnt wash -  We know they did on them and Russian POWs (something often ignored this group fared as badly if not worse in the camps)- ignore attrocity tales and propoganda -

The proof is we still use data collected and rely on text books produced as the result of Nazi experimentation on these groups. 

 

 

 

 

[Truthspoon]

58 minutes ago, Eldnah said:

 

Concentration camps  - and death camps were 2 differrent things.

 

Although even then its not exactly relevant, 

 There were not only Jews in concentration camps - Jehovas witnesses, Gays political opponents all wound up there and some of these were later released - Thus the presence of doctors does not mean their was no holocaust 

 

 

 

There were no death camps...... Concentration camps have been conflated as Death camps....

 

But then they're continually changing the figures, moving the goal posts......

[Truthspoon]

44 minutes ago, Eldnah said:

 

 

That really doesnt wash -  We know they did on them and Russian POWs (something often ignored this group fared as badly if not worse in the camps)- ignore attrocity tales and propoganda -

 

 

 

 

It's all tales and propaganda. The whole thing is a lie. Some of the lies are exposed and they quietly drop some of the more absurd and disgusting lies they invented, like soap and lampshades, or the electric conveyer belt of death.....or the crazy story of steaming people to death with hot vapour until they turned into a mass of bodies they had to pry apart with metal rods...

 

The whole thing is a sick fantasy.

 

One day it will all be exposed.

 

 

[Eldnah]

1 hour ago, Truthspoon said:

 

It's all tales and propaganda. The whole thing is a lie. Some of the lies are exposed and they quietly drop some of the more absurd and disgusting lies they invented, like soap and lampshades, or the electric conveyer belt of death.....or the crazy story of steaming people to death with hot vapour until they turned into a mass of bodies they had to pry apart with metal rods...

 

The whole thing is a sick fantasy.

 

One day it will all be exposed.

 

 

Nicely removed context from my post there 

 

The fact that solid evidence exists proves some things happenned regardless of being propaganderised 

[Eldnah]

1 hour ago, Truthspoon said:

 

There were no death camps...... Concentration camps have been conflated as Death camps....

 

But then they're continually changing the figures, moving the goal posts......

 

That depends on whether you believe that the Nazis systematically tried to exterminate entire races of people (Jews and Slavs) or not?

 

If you do then - then  the existance of purpose built death camps - all destroyed before captured makes sense, along with pits full of (mainly) Russians 

 

Again its easy to dismiss the horror stories of German crimes in the east as propoganda - but evidence also supports them 

 

Not only the whole living space reason for war  but the whole operation Barbarrosa -  There was never enough logistical support - It was allways intended the German army live off the land ie take all the locals food and use starvation to depopulate Russia.

 

Size of army number of food trucks etc proves it

[Truthspoon]

27 minutes ago, Eldnah said:

Nicely removed context from my post there 

 

The fact that solid evidence exists proves some things happenned regardless of being propaganderised 

 

So tell me what happened my dear....

 

Are you going to tell me tall tales of gas chambers with glass windows and unsealed old wooden doors with an inch gap at the bottom where the attendant is supposed to be?

 

Are you going to tell me of ovens which were not even part of the original fabric of the camps...and were only constructed in 1943 as a result of a typhoid epidemic.

 

Let me tell you about the swimming pool, theatre, even brothel for the inmates, at Auschwitz...

Why would a death camp have a theatre, dentist and swimming pool?

 

It's your story that doesn't add up. History is not on your side.

All of the evidence is either LIES or was literally constructed after the fact by Russians.

 

But please.....tell me what you think you know and cite your evidence.

 

In the meantime, hit the music:

 

 

 

 

[Truthspoon]

The real victims of World War 2 were the German people...... and for losing the war they get this Holocaust blood-libel attached to them...

 

 

[Eldnah]

1 minute ago, Truthspoon said:

 

So tell me what happened my dear....

 

Are you going to tell me tall tales of gas chambers with glass windows and unsealed old wooden doors with an inch gap at the bottom where the attendant is supposed to be?

 

Never heard any tales like that  - Ive heard lots of claims on the internet about these recorded facts yet nobody ever cites a real source for this

 

1 minute ago, Truthspoon said:

 

Are you going to tell me of ovens which were not even part of the original fabric of the camps...and were only constructed in 1943 as a result of a typhoid epidemic.

 

Since some were built in 1940 -thats clearly a false fact - However we both agree that Construction of more (indeed the bulk) was around 42/43 which coincides with when the Germans began systematic genocide.

 

The Typhoid story works for nazi apologism but not for reality - you wouldnt build multiple permanent structures for an unexpected disease out break - nor would you continue to do so for an extended period.

 

Its a convinient justification that relies on people not asking questions.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Truthspoon said:

 

Let me tell you about the swimming pool, theatre, even brothel for the inmates, at Auschwitz...

 

As ive pointed out repeatedly There were differrent groups of Prisoners - they had different access, treatment and conditions - but even amonst the Jewish inmates 

 

The Swimming pool was in fact a water store for fire fighting used as such 

 

 

Not sure women being force to work in brothels is quite the "good treatment" thing you think it is

 

1 minute ago, Truthspoon said:

Why would a death camp have a theatre, dentist and swimming pool?

 

False question because as you well know Auschwitz was a concentration camp first and formost used for slave Labour, being hired out to local industry

 

But ignoring that 

1) For the Guards - 2) For the prisoners being released 3) to control disease outbreaks - They were happy to work  inmates to death but out breaks of disease stopped that - it also put Guards and others at risk. Controlling disease isnt the same as caring for the sick.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Truthspoon said:

 

It's your story that doesn't add up. History is not on your side.

 

Really 

We have medical books based on German Doctors research on inmates - but history says theres no evidence of atrocities its all made up

 

 

1 minute ago, Truthspoon said:

All of the evidence is either LIES or was literally constructed after the fact by Russians.

 

There is an element of truth there - the Russian (as ive pointed out) blamed their crimes on the Germans -They also added 4 million dead to Aushwitz as part of post war propoganda - this of course gets confused and is why the number of dead their changing doesnt change the Jew numbers -( because they werent Jews added )

 

 

1 minute ago, Truthspoon said:

 

But please.....tell me what you think you know and cite your evidence.

 

 

See above for some - theres various books that include testimony of guards and inmates and locals

 

One very good one which explains how the holocaust was the result of both the war and some very bad German decisions on relocating the Jews to Ghettos and the problems that caused.

 

However for me that completely ignores the fact they intended much the same fate for all eastern Europe 

 

Then of course youve the well documented Einsatzgrupen - very hard to dissmiss their actions as propoganda when their orders were not only documented by the German commanders in the East but in some cases passed through them.

 

 

 

It never ceases to amaze me how holocaust deniers to a man accept they deliberatly murdered millions of Slavs (mostly Russian),  for racial purity, then political opponents, anyone identified as communist but absolutely refuse to belive they did this to Jews.

 

There is a disproportionate focus on Jewish victims , who may have got the brunt but only because they never got round to clearing the east of all its undesirables, Non Jewish poles in particular are forgotten by history.

 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Truthspoon said:

 

In the meantime, hit the music:

 

 

 

 

 

[Eldnah]

29 minutes ago, Truthspoon said:

The real victims of World War 2 were the German people......

 

Bollocks - just bollocks - 

 

 

Quote

and for losing the war they get this Holocaust blood-libel attached to them...

 

I dissagree with this because right from the end of the war ** the warcrimes were Nazis, not Germans

 

We went to war with the Nazis, The Nazis ran the camps, The SS and Nazis commited the murders the average erman knew nothing 

 

FFS the EU last VE day announced Germany was liberated from the Nazi regime. The West has gone out its way to Pretend Germans didnt do this it was Nazis.

 

I do agree though that whilst things shouldnt be forgotton (slave trade, holocaust,) we should move on and that 99.99% of Germans alive today not only had no part in this but werent even born - It should not be used as a stick to beat Germans over th head with.

 

 

Mind you same goes with the slave trade although in this case everyone agrees its unfair to blame people for their ancestors involvement unless were discussing the Atlantic slave trade - in which case being white makes you guilty of evrything white (and black) slave traders did

 

 

**Because we wanted Germany rearmed to face the USSR

Edited March 3, 2021 by Eldnah

[Truthspoon]

42 minutes ago, Eldnah said:

 

Bollocks - just bollocks - 

 

 

 

Sorry, I forgot...you're the only ones who get victim cards... the rest of us aren't human after all.... just the deaths of animals isn't it.

[Eldnah]

58 minutes ago, Truthspoon said:

 

Sorry, I forgot...you're the only ones who get victim cards... the rest of us aren't human after all.... just the deaths of animals isn't it.

 

Always with the Nazi apologism and anti semitism with you 

 

Germans  as a race were no more victims than the Italians , British, French, Dutch

 

They as a nation sufferred more as a result of allied bombings - but they were more than happy with Hitlers (failed) attempt to do the same to the UK - 

 

Ive asked before whats the difference in the WW2 context of bombing a city killing and destroying the civillians who build weapons and bombing the civilians (because thats what conscripts were) who had been forced into uniform and given a gun.

 

 

The real victims of WW2 probably - the Eastern Europeans who were Invaded, murdered, looted and forcibly conscripted by the Germans - and then occupied, looted, murdered and forcibly conscripted by the USSR.  People killed not by war or circumstances but by deliberate policy.

 

You could even argue the Chinese / others that ended up under Japanese control were victims given that regimes excesses 

 

 

The Jews whilst victims during the war - gained from the war it leading directly to the creation of a Jewish state - by the UN  ( not the UK). It may have been better all roud if that state was Madagascar or carved out of th US but thats another issue

 

[Incandescent]

There are many Jews in the alt-media. I think it's unfair to all the Jewish truth-seekers to talk about Jews as though they are all Zio-kabbalists. Thousands of Jewish soldiers fought for Germany during both world wars! 

 

 

[Eldnah]

1 hour ago, Incandescent said:

There are many Jews in the alt-media. I think it's unfair to all the Jewish truth-seekers to talk about Jews as though they are all Zio-kabbalists. Thousands of Jewish soldiers fought for Germany during both world wars! 

 

You are correct in that during WW2 Jewish service and losses were no differrent to any other group in Germany.

 

But there were very few in the 2nd - Officially there would have been none - but some would have escaped detection. There would of course probably have been some with a Jewish Grand parent or possibly 1 parent as these people were often  deemed not Jewish by the state

 

 

This is because the Nazis banned Jews from serving in the German armed forces  (amongst other things), Then  began an anti Jewish campaign because good Germans were dying to defend Germany whilst the Jew stayed at home.

 

You could argue that given the regimes attitude - they wouldnt want to - but conscription would have made that irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oddsnsods]

Historian: Nazi Army Included 150,000 of Jewish Descent

BERLIN - As many as 150,000 men of Jewish descent served in the German military under Adolf Hitler, some with the Nazi leader's explicit consent, a U.S. historian who has interviewed hundreds of former soldiers said on Thursday. Bryan Mark Rigg, history professor at the American Military University in Virginia, told Reuters that the issue of soldiers of partial Jewish descent was long a somewhat taboo subject, overlooked by most academics as it threw up thorny questions.
"Not everybody who wore a uniform was a Nazi and not every person of Jewish descent was persecuted," he said. "Where do they belong? They served in the military but lost mom at Auschwitz."
According to the Nuremberg Laws of 1935, Jews or those of partial Jewish descent were unfit for military service, but Rigg tracked down and interviewed more than 400 former soldiers of partial Jewish descent - labeled "Mischlinge" ("half-caste") by the Nazis.
He estimates there were about 60,000 soldiers with one Jewish parent and 90,000 with a Jewish grandparent in the Wehrmacht, the regular army as distinct from the Nazi SS.
"They thought 'if I serve well they're not going to hurt me and not going to hurt my family'," he said.
However, on returning home from the campaign in Poland at the start of the war to find persecution of their families worsening, many soldiers classified as half-Jewish started to complain, prompting Hitler to order their dismissal in 1940.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/1.4747962