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3 minutes ago, DougASmall said:

You will never find truth in the earth. 

That's because the truth is alien to this system. 

It's the stone the builders rejected. 

The stumbling block. 

https://youtu.be/7v554QtlGKs

 

I'd have to disagree there though should I even take sides?.

 

Nature is truth here and now. I wouldn't seek to find truth as I would find according to my desires. My goal, if it could be called that, is to end conflict in myself, completely. Truth might then be free to come, like the breeze through a window on a hot day, but it must be unsought. For you to think that you cannot end your inner turmoil seems to be sentencing yourself to eternal struggle. Let's not say that truth cannot be come upon or visitied by as that's a conclusive block. It might be possible or it might not be. Not, it's impossible.

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4 minutes ago, Traveller said:

 

I'd have to disagree there though should I even take sides?.

 

Nature is truth here and now. I wouldn't seek to find truth as I would find according to my desires. My goal, if it could be called that, is to end conflict in myself, completely. Truth might then be free to come, like the breeze through a window on a hot day, but it must be unsought. For you to think that you cannot end your inner turmoil seems to be sentencing yourself to eternal struggle. Let's not say that truth cannot be come upon or visitied by as that's a conclusive block. It might be possible or it might not be. Not, it's impossible.

NO, the nature you see is not the truth. The earth is a machine. The nature you see is just decoration on a old whore. 

Your enemy is the pyramid (tetrahedron) 

https://youtu.be/w0ztlIAYTCU

 

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9 minutes ago, DougASmall said:

NO, the nature you see is not the truth. The earth is a machine. The nature you see is just decoration on a old whore. 

Your enemy is the pyramid (tetrahedron) 

https://youtu.be/w0ztlIAYTCU

 

 

Flippin eck man. Easy tiger! Certainly the best looking old whore I've seen eh? Not looked at the mountains and shit then? OK OK, nature aside the smelly old cowbag!

 

What is truth to you? What does it mean? Not in mathematics please as that don't compute with me.

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19 minutes ago, Traveller said:

What is truth to you? What does it mean? Not in mathematics please as that don't compute with me.

Truth is peace 

Job 22:21 Acquaint H5532 now thyself with him, and be at peace: H7999 thereby good H2896 shall come H935 unto thee.

H7999 Shawlam 

Hebrew: שׁלם

Transliteration: shâlam

Pronunciation: shaw-lam'

Definition: A primitive root; to be safe (in {mind} body or estate); figuratively to be (causatively make) completed; by implication to be friendly; by extension to reciprocate (in various applications): - make {amends} (make an) {end} {finish} {full} give {again} make {good} (re-) pay ({again}) (make) (to) (be at) peace ({-able}) that is {perfect} {perform} (make) prosper ({-ous}) {recompense} {render} {requite} make {restitution} {restore} {reward} X surely.

 

Blind these eyes of yours, close these ears of yours, put away your doings that are seen; and ye shall perceive that which concerneth Christ, and the whole mystery of your salvation: and let thus much be said unto you that hear, as if it had not been spoken. But now it is time for thee, Peter, to deliver up thy body unto them that take it. Receive it then, ye unto whom it belongeth. I beseech you the executioners, crucify me thus, with the head downward and not otherwise: and the reason wherefore, I will tell unto them that hear.

 

XXXVIII. And when they had hanged him up after the manner he desired, he began again to say: Ye men unto whom it belongeth to hear, hearken to that which I shall declare unto you at this especial time as I hang here. Learn ye the mystery of all nature, and the beginning of all things, what it was. For the first man, whose race I bear in mine appearance (or, of the race of whom I bear the likeness), fell (was borne) head downwards, and showed forth a manner of birth such as was not heretofore: for it was dead, having no motion. He, then, being pulled down -who also cast his first state down upon the earth- established this whole disposition of all things, being hanged up an image of the creation (Gk. vocation) wherein he made the things of the right hand into left hand and the left hand into right hand, and changed about all the marks of their nature, so that he thought those things that were not fair to be fair, and those that were in truth evil, to be good. Concerning which the Lord saith in a mystery: Unless ye make the things of the right hand as those of the left, and those of the left as those of the right, and those that are above as those below, and those that are behind as those that are before, ye shall not have knowedge of the kingdom.

 

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1 hour ago, DougASmall said:

NO, the nature you see is not the truth. The earth is a machine. The nature you see is just decoration on a old whore. 

Your enemy is the pyramid (tetrahedron) 

https://youtu.be/w0ztlIAYTCU

 

It's no wonder cancer is everywhere in this world.

This kind of shit is everywhere these days.

It's just degeneration after degeneration.

Idiocracy is here.

 

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2 hours ago, killing raven sun said:

in general these negative statements should be avoided

 

regardless, if you seek truth you are not ill

 

those that do not seek truth are ill

 

A fact is neither positive or negative. The fool who knows his folly is so far wise. If I were to think positively, as you imply, I would be denying the fact of my condition out of fear of it and thus have moved away from it preventing it's confrontation. It in no way depresses me to feel that way. On the contrary, it has a liberating element. Less and less do I need to protect some self projected delusion of grandeur because I know that this self is not great in any way. I should be in no delusions as to the fact of my condition if I wish to end it. The Dao De Jing and elsewhere speak of knowing one's illness but I don't think it because they say so but because I see the merit in recognising my inward state. That is inward conflict and it is not a state of health. That's not OK with me but any movement away from the fact nurtures it.

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14 hours ago, Traveller said:

A fact is neither positive or negative.

wrong. facts are energy forms, much like the body, and each is charged to its nature

 

when you say "i am ill" you create a fact of illness made of words you harbor in the mind, this energy then directs you to "be ill"

 

there is no illness in nature, there is infinite imperfection, the perception of imperfection as wrongness is illusion, imperfection is the definition of "beauty"

 

your position, if you need to define it, is one of ignorance, and like all wrongs it will soon be righted

 

15 hours ago, Traveller said:

On the contrary, it has a liberating element. 

no. words are never liberating, they are a cage for the truth

 

they are the base of power over the physical, a tool of freedom

 

what you seek is beyond words

 

15 hours ago, Traveller said:

Less and less do I need to protect some self projected delusion of grandeur because I know that this self is not great in any way.

absolute bullshit. your delusion of grandeur is based on your great self, you have defined the self wrongly but that will pass

 

the self is the refined spirit, the product of ages of development over many lifes, adding and deleting attributes as you learn more about the universe

 

the meaning of life is what you think it is

 

 

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1 hour ago, killing raven sun said:

wrong. facts are energy forms, much like the body, and each is charged to its nature

 

when you say "i am ill" you create a fact of illness made of words you harbor in the mind, this energy then directs you to "be ill"

 

there is no illness in nature, there is infinite imperfection, the perception of imperfection as wrongness is illusion, imperfection is the definition of "beauty"

 

your position, if you need to define it, is one of ignorance, and like all wrongs it will soon be righted

 

I dunno, some of the seems like the secret, is it, or postive thinking and the like. I get that being morose is unhelpful and that, whilst down in here in the soup, it's better to still look for the good in stuff. Dig for treasure as it were. I get that negative is not good but positive isn't the answer.

OK, lets say we're imperfect then. I heard it put well by one NDE'er that saw himself as the most beautiful set of ruins, like a fallen castle that still had beauty and nature all through it. Chronic longterm illness will have some say in your outlook. In chinese medicine I would, at very least, have a state of damp. Damp extinguishes fire which is associated with humour and light heartedness. Try not to assume what it's like. To me, you all have the greatest possibility ever in your hands but don't take it. I get back, I'll grab it with all my soul. Save doing a rerun at least.

 

1 hour ago, killing raven sun said:

no. words are never liberating, they are a cage for the truth

 

they are the base of power over the physical, a tool of freedom

 

what you seek is beyond words

 

I'm guessing you'll like this one then, Krishnamurti "Thought is expressed in words. Without words, is there thinking? Without the word, is there comprehension? To understand something totally, to see the whole process of life, one must be free of the word - the word, the symbol, the idea, the conclusion. Then one can look and listen. That act of listening is a miracle. Perhaps it is the greatest miracle when one can listen totally without any defence or barrier, neither agreeing nor disagreeing, the mind extraordinarily alert."

 

1 hour ago, killing raven sun said:

absolute bullshit. your delusion of grandeur is based on your great self, you have defined the self wrongly but that will pass

 

the self is the refined spirit, the product of ages of development over many lifes, adding and deleting attributes as you learn more about the universe

 

the meaning of life is what you think it is

 

 

By the self, I'm referring to the man made self brought about by social conditioning which is not me. Everyone who's not a buddah has this and it's the cross isn't isn't it? The one we're nailed to and when the cross is no longer needed, the rose blooms. The I is crossed - out.

 

This being  is a monad. This being learns creation in the fire. It is not yet an individual. It's a conglomeration of all the thoughts of others I've heard. Thinking about the meaning of life can only be done in words yet we are to be free of them, no? I wouldn't attribute any meaning at present. The very best we think and create is ashes. Life does not begin till the we're free of the word. I may have picked up likes, skills and vocations along a very interesting path but still ashes till the phoenix does it's thing.

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As above so below .... freedom is earned, everything is earned.

Money is a dirty and low representation of this ... in the minds of a low primate.

What Real and True is not earned with money, but how to explain that to an ape.

How would you explain it to a squirrel?

You use "money", it is the only way to bridge the very large gap.

 

Humans use words like birds use song, it's unconscious and so the conceptual meaning of words is rarely used by humans.

For instance "E=MC^2" ... if I say this it is sound energy and carries a kind of energy feeling in it.

If I sing it to a bird that is what they will feel.

But a conscious and intelligent human can understand the concept, the formula.

Words can be used to convey specific concepts, but for most humans it's just noise, and feelings.

 

Life is alive it has to explore.  It cannot always be perfect otherwise where will knowledge come from.

God is like a shooting star, leading the way, creating a river of light ... and we perfect ourselves by following it and merging with it.

But we cannot learn without trouble.

And God's light is always changing, it is deepening extending truth into even deeper truth.

All very far away from the human primate.

We need to leave this world, this world is fallen and full of insincerity.

There is every chance to drown with everyone else.

Not many squirrels will understand there is something wrong, and even if they do ... there is a price to be paid to enter light.

Not a price in money.

 

Is there life after death?  Or is it just said that way to not hurt people's feelings?

Painful truths cannot be borne by many.

The journey of the ancient sages tells the story of a great struggle and finally freedom, and death to this world.

Those still live, even now, they live and breathe, but not here.

It is not for free, because existence doesn't need so many.

Here on Earth people are getting stupider, falling again.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, killing raven sun said:

the meaning of life is what you think it is

 

Thats good - for me the meaning of life is to live, thats all, and I'm already doing that.

 

Happiness though, well thats a different kettle of fish, a lot harder to achieve.

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1 hour ago, Traveller said:

 

I dunno, some of the seems like the secret, is it, or postive thinking and the like. I get that being morose is unhelpful and that, whilst down in here in the soup, it's better to still look for the good in stuff. Dig for treasure as it were. I get that negative is not good but positive isn't the answer.

looking for good is definitely part of the problem, the proper way to approach "the soup" is with appreciation, in this way all things can be understood more completely and with less emotion, love and hate, good vs evil, these block perception at all times

 

1 hour ago, Traveller said:

OK, lets say we're imperfect then. I heard it put well by one NDE'er that saw himself as the most beautiful set of ruins, like a fallen castle that still had beauty and nature all through it. Chronic longterm illness will have some say in your outlook. In chinese medicine I would, at very least, have a state of damp. Damp extinguishes fire which is associated with humour and light heartedness. Try not to assume what it's like. To me, you all have the greatest possibility ever in your hands but don't take it. I get back, I'll grab it with all my soul. Save doing a rerun at least.

your proclamation is most of the truth behind the words, the mind is there for you to control, your material form proceeds from the mind, there is some lag but over time you become what you think you are, its the same as energy healing, reiki, if i think you feel better then soon you will

 

1 hour ago, Traveller said:

I'm guessing you'll like this one then, Krishnamurti "Thought is expressed in words. Without words, is there thinking? Without the word, is there comprehension? To understand something totally, to see the whole process of life, one must be free of the word - the word, the symbol, the idea, the conclusion. Then one can look and listen. That act of listening is a miracle. Perhaps it is the greatest miracle when one can listen totally without any defence or barrier, neither agreeing nor disagreeing, the mind extraordinarily alert."

indeed, these are the words of a very wise man, there are many men of wisdom, identifying them is the hard part, kudos

 

and i agree, very few people are qualified to think, its a dangerous activity that can lead the whole universe into darkness

 

its much better to know without thinking

 

1 hour ago, Traveller said:

By the self, I'm referring to the man made self brought about by social conditioning which is not me. Everyone who's not a buddah has this and it's the cross isn't isn't it? The one we're nailed to and when the cross is no longer needed, the rose blooms. The I is crossed - out.

uhg, no, not at all, you are an expression of the conscious life force, through freedom you have stumbled into a wrong paradigm of existence, there are illusions blocking you from movement, they are important parts of you and must die, but you dont become some mindless sheep, you continue to become a more defined self which gains greater and greater understanding of the material universe, we are all, everything in the universe, a part of the infinite imperfection that reflects the one future perfect self, we are all moving toward perfection on infinitely long paths and you can never achieve material perfection in this experience because likely it is a gateway out to the Mind

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1 hour ago, pi3141 said:

 

Thats good - for me the meaning of life is to live, thats all, and I'm already doing that.

 

Happiness though, well thats a different kettle of fish, a lot harder to achieve.

happiness is a tricky state, too much happiness becomes drunk and psychotic

 

and often happiness is the local social construct, which always brings abject suffering as you try to "fill holes"

 

once again, appreciation will bring happiness, you will learn to focus more on those things that bring happiness, appreciation also helps heal sorrow by allowing you to see how to move on, away from suffering, but both paths will require the sacrifice of some belief

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3 minutes ago, killing raven sun said:

looking for good is definitely part of the problem, the proper way to approach "the soup" is with appreciation, in this way all things can be understood more completely and with less emotion, love and hate, good vs evil, these block perception at all times

 

I agree.

 

4 minutes ago, killing raven sun said:

your proclamation is most of the truth behind the words, the mind is there for you to control, your material form proceeds from the mind, there is some lag but over time you become what you think you are, its the same as energy healing, reiki, if i think you feel better then soon you will

 

Not sure about exercising control of the mind other than don't think stupid shit. I feel I've readied that terrain. Just need to heal the body which I can do regardless of what I think. I understand what you mean though. A person who is aggressive for many years begins to look more and more menacing and the opposite of that being looking peasceful. Did my Reiki one. Great experience.

 

15 minutes ago, killing raven sun said:

you continue to become a more defined self which gains greater and greater understanding of the material universe

 

I've noted that as lifeforms become more complex they learn how to control more complex systems. Driving and fixing a car is in itself a lesson in alchemy. Singled celled organisms just split. Birds nurture young and up it goes with increasing degrees of complexity. The rest in that para sounds right so not totally sure how what I said was wrong as it didn't exclude what you said.

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2 hours ago, Traveller said:

The I is crossed - out.

 

It is not yet an individual. It's a conglomeration of all the thoughts of others I've heard. 

every message you receive is from the future perfect self instructing you toward perfection, in the Mind universe there is no "other", we are everything, and we are infinite immutable individuals participating in creating infinite universal experience

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3 minutes ago, killing raven sun said:

every message you receive is from the future perfect self instructing you toward perfection, in the Mind universe there is no "other", we are everything, and we are infinite immutable individuals participating in creating infinite universal experience

 

Aint that the truth. It's no hard fast system though is it? There isn't a set time for when you pass through the gate to the heart of the Universe. Whatever one wants to call it may instruct through experience and appear when ready to learn but still gotta get it right down here. Or, undo the wrong. F up, it adjusts. Opportunity is always provided I see.

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15 hours ago, killing raven sun said:

every message you receive is from the future perfect self instructing you toward perfection, in the Mind universe there is no "other", we are everything, and we are infinite immutable individuals participating in creating infinite universal experience

There is no future Times up

The future is the past. 

Time is just a frequency field. It really doesn't exist. 

There is only what we were before 

In our first estate. 

Repent means to turn quite about 180deg. Go back the way you came. 

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4 hours ago, DougASmall said:

There is no future Times up

The future is the past. 

Time is just a frequency field. It really doesn't exist. 

There is only what we were before 

there is the word "future", it signifies the reality yet to come

 

it is not possible to reach the future as we are part of the infinite "now"

 

but we can understand the future through the mind, just as we remember the past

 

in the future we are all reunited into the primal being, the future perfect self

 

the universe as identity is the first creation from which we all emerge

 

the infinite universe is mind creating reality forever without beginning

 

 

time is not a "field" of any sort, you were correct when you stated that "it really doesnt exist"

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19 hours ago, Traveller said:

It's no hard fast system though is it?

well, yes, its the order of the universe, nature, and you break its laws to your peril

 

19 hours ago, Traveller said:

There isn't a set time for when you pass through the gate to the heart of the Universe.

well, this is true as you are always in the "heart" of the universe, your disconnection cannot be complete while you are here, and as for location, of course you are always/never in the heart of an infinite universe

 

19 hours ago, Traveller said:

Whatever one wants to call it may instruct through experience and appear when ready to learn

no, you are constantly attended, your dismissal of the experience isnt proof of absence, remember to listen

 

19 hours ago, Traveller said:

Or, undo the wrong.

it is not your burden to undo wrongs, just focus on the right and the righteousness of the universe will fix all wrongs

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35 minutes ago, killing raven sun said:

well, yes, its the order of the universe, nature, and you break its laws to your peril

 

I wasn't meaning in that respect, exactly. By hard fast system, I mean, it does not take a set amount of time for any one person, myself for instance, to go from darkness to light. I will not, for instance, definitely live 100 lives of a set amount of years till enlightenment is allowed. I could longer, it could be shorter. Point being, that some dgree of it is down to me in the here and now. I trust, that what I would call the Dao, will adjust, put in to birth with whom I need etc that will be the fastest route but not a set route else there's no freedom in the sense you ascribe to it. More clear? Or just as wrong :)

 

35 minutes ago, killing raven sun said:

well, this is true as you are always in the "heart" of the universe, your disconnection cannot be complete while you are here, and as for location, of course you are always/never in the heart of an infinite universe

 

Oh yes, definitely constantly attended. I do not dismiss the experience. There is a line in the Dao De Jing, put in better words but as I can recall it now: can you allow a dificuly course to run it's route? Glad I heard it. Also, another one: there is a time for safety, a time for danger and more but you get the point perhaps? Hard to discern my own mind chatter from that which is meant for me to know or hear as a means to move out of a situation. When I left where I lived, I laughed as the first number plate coming toward me read "DAO".

 

36 minutes ago, killing raven sun said:

it is not your burden to undo wrongs, just focus on the right and the righteousness of the universe will fix all wrongs

 

By wrongs, I mean social conditioning. By focussing on the right, if I'm serious about it and not just playing with words, that conditioning ends. And, we've all hurt folk and nowt wrong with making good.

 

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58 minutes ago, Traveller said:

 

I wasn't meaning in that respect, exactly. By hard fast system, I mean, it does not take a set amount of time for any one person, myself for instance, to go from darkness to light. I will not, for instance, definitely live 100 lives of a set amount of years till enlightenment is allowed. I could longer, it could be shorter. 

true, the infinite experience takes forever on infinite paths, you can go from dark to light a gazillion times and never be enlightened, and certainly consciousness allows for you to "live 100 lives" and then become enlightened if that is what you want, and remember that enlightenment is just the first step toward the infinite

 

1 hour ago, Traveller said:

Point being, that some dgree of it is down to me in the here and now. I trust, that what I would call the Dao, will adjust, put in to birth with whom I need etc that will be the fastest route but not a set route else there's no freedom in the sense you ascribe to it. More clear? Or just as wrong :)

it is all down to you, what you call the "Dao" is you also, a wiser you, and no it does not provide a path but rather advice on which way to go

 

seeking truth, understanding, is never wrong, misunderstandings and ignorance make stong footholds for advancement toward awareness, just climb carefully

 

1 hour ago, Traveller said:

Hard to discern my own mind chatter from that which is meant for me to know or hear as a means to move out of a situation. When I left where I lived, I laughed as the first number plate coming toward me read "DAO".

this is good, most people do not hear the chatter at all

 

the more chatter you hear the more your self has been inducted from the energy around you, family and friends, society and government, and so on, these inducted energies resonate within your self and the mind for various amounts of time and cause pain or joy accordingly

 

what you want to do is begin "talking them down", tell the chatter you are wholly uninterested in any conversation that isnt about the DAO, ask for the voice of the DAO to rise above the rest and drown them out, test the voice if you need, make sure it has your best interests in mind and isnt just delusion, the energy is there if you can receive it

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