Who is God?

[killing raven sun]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

Most of the universe cannot deviate much as it is below the threshold of consciousness

ridiculous, as i stated before, consciousness is linked to all existence, even the scientist has discovered this in superposition

 

try and keep up

 

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

that is what consciousness means the ability to deviate or use free will.

no, freedom is the ability to do the wrong thing, to deviate from rightness

 

consciousness is your ability to interact with your environment, whether you are a human, a bird or a sub-atomic particle, we all live by exchange of information, humans eat, birds fly, and particles emit radiation

 

3 hours ago, rideforever said:

I don't have a negative view of life, just a negative view of the destructive humanity - and even that is limited.

no, you are quite negative, it is on full display, even here where you try to deny your negativity you have embraced negativity

[pi3141]

On 11/13/2020 at 2:27 PM, Truthspoon said:

I wrote an article about this kind of thinking and where it leads:

 

https://www.truthspoon.com/p/cult-of-sacred-feminine.html

 

Read it.

 

My opinion is still that men and women are equal, yes there are aberrations - some women are stronger than some men while some men are more caring than some women but ultimately we're equal, I'm sure the same can be said in spiritual matters. 

 

I think part of the problem in religion is a mistranslation in the Bible concerning Adams rib and the creation of Adam and Eve.

 

Anyway - how then do you explain the passage in Genesis - 

 

"Let US make man in OUR image" 

 

Who was God talking to? Or what did he mean by "US" and "OUR" image?

[rideforever]

14 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

men and women are equal

 

Meaning what?  Equal what?  Look at nature are men and women equal?
It's such a low and ignorant way of talking.

Do you mean equal height, equal IQ, equal what ?
Meaningless.
All it is ... is being the kind of person that has rejected having any opinions at all, rejected learning anything, rejected looking out through his eyes ... and instead has TV where is head should be spouting empty nonsense.

That is "equal".   Anyone who is like is equal because they are empty, equally empty.

Slave people are like this ... the modern person is so enslaved he doesn't really understand or see the problem.  In jail there are no differences and there is no real life.  Everything has been taken away.  Your intelligence your sex your whole life.

Plus ... of course whilst sitting in the jail cell there is nothing to do but watch the TV, and what they have organised for you is a little programme that says "you are progress be proud".   And the slaves sit in their cells watching this shit.

Quite a weird weird world.

[pi3141]

29 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Meaning what?  Equal what?  Look at nature are men and women equal?
It's such a low and ignorant way of talking.

Do you mean equal height, equal IQ, equal what ?
Meaningless.

 

Oh dear, Mr Angry. I see your form of spirituality has not worked out well for you.

Meaningless - yes as was most of your reply, what has sitting in prison got to do with anything. Also, I don't watch much TV, well, I work in TV so I watch it at work sometimes but mainly I take a book with me for quiet periods, I don't watch it much at home.

 

So lets see, judgmental, angry and unable to follow a simple debate about equality of the sexes, hmm, not very enlightened are you? And you haven't really moved the debate forward at all.

 

I'll indulge you - what do I mean by equal. Yes some men and women have equal IQ's, some men and women have equal strength and men and women are capable of performing male and female roles - you see women on the frontline in war and you see men staying at home caring. But mostly, considering this is a Religious forum for religious discussion and we are mainly discussing spirituality then my remark that men and women are equal was in reference to men and women's spirituality - i.e we are equal spiritually and in the eyes of God. Does that clear it up for you?

 

Now can you add anything constructive?

Edited November 16, 2020 by pi3141

[rideforever]

@pi3141

You have turned yourself into a fantastic TV set, it takes a lot of work to get rid of your own brain.

[pi3141]

4 minutes ago, rideforever said:

@pi3141

You have turned yourself into a fantastic TV set, it takes a lot of work to get rid of your own brain.

 

So that would be a "No" then, you can't add anything to the discussion, you can't even bring yourself to offer advice or second opinion you choose instead to insult.

 

Like I said, not very enlightened or spiritual, if I was you I would ask for my money back.

[Traveller]

6 of one...

 

In the condemnation of others lies the justification of ourselves?

[Truthspoon]

1 hour ago, pi3141 said:

 

Read it.

 

My opinion is still that men and women are equal, yes there are aberrations - some women are stronger than some men while some men are more caring than some women but ultimately we're equal, I'm sure the same can be said in spiritual matters. 

 

I think part of the problem in religion is a mistranslation in the Bible concerning Adams rib and the creation of Adam and Eve.

 

Anyway - how then do you explain the passage in Genesis - 

 

"Let US make man in OUR image" 

 

Who was God talking to? Or what did he mean by "US" and "OUR" image?

 

The question is who was there able to write down what the Gods had said before humanity was even created?

 

I wouldn't sweat it, it's just something someone made up.

 

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, pi3141 said:

Like I said, not very enlightened or spiritual, if I was you I would ask for my money back.

 

Spirituality is very rare.  Why?  Because the sages were not very polite about how humans live.  Jesus said that most people will simply be destroyed in the wide gate.  In India it said that what people are and do is meaningless it is maya a kind of madness.  Laotzu says that humans are straw dogs, meaningless decorations burnt up and forgotten forever.

But ... I suppose you also found out about "spirituality" from the TV.  Most people do.
You don't want me to add anything, because you only want to feel calm ... selling your soul does make you feel calm, that's why people do it.

It is painful to wake up, when all you have been fed since birth is snake oil ... and there are many ways for that to go wrong.  It's simply difficult in a less than sincere world.

 

[Traveller]

20 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Because the sages were not very polite about how humans live.  Jesus said that most people will simply be destroyed in the wide gate.  In India it said that what people are and do is meaningless it is maya a kind of madness.  Laotzu says that humans are straw dogs, meaningless decorations burnt up and forgotten forever.

 

 

Does not Laotzu say in the Dao De Jing that all beings return to the source? I interpret this as they become enlightened.

[rideforever]

59 minutes ago, Traveller said:

Does not Laotzu say in the Dao De Jing that all beings return to the source? I interpret this as they become enlightened.

 

Empty yourself of everything.
Let the mind become still.
The ten thousand things rise and fall 
while the Self watches their return.

 

The Self watches things rise and fall, but not people .. .people are part of that which rises ... and falls (dies)

They grow and flourish and then 
return to the source.
Returning to the source is stillness, 
which is the way of nature.
The way of nature is unchanging.
Knowing constancy is insight.
Not knowing constancy leads to disaster.

 

Disasters happen there is no guarantee

Knowing constancy, the mind is open.
With an open mind, you will be openhearted.
Being openhearted, you will act royally.

Being royal, you will attain the divine.
Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao.
Being at one with the Tao is eternal.
And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away.

 

Attaining the divine comes from a certain change in you so that you become a Sage ... and then you become eternal.  

 

When he says that the Sage understands man is a straw dog it means that few attain Sagedom and few are eternal.   Everyone returns to the Source and are recycled when the recycling truck comes.   But a Sage is not like that because he has merged with the Source and is thereby eternal.

 

 

- what type of qigong do you do then?

Edited November 16, 2020 by rideforever

[Traveller]

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation of straw dogs. From one source:

 

In one translation Chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching begins with the lines "Heaven and Earth are impartial/ treating creatures like straw dogs".

Su Zhe's commentary on this verse explains: "Heaven and Earth are not partial. They do not kill living things out of cruelty or give them birth out of kindness. We do the same when we make straw dogs to use in sacrifices. We dress them up and put them on the altar, but not because we love them. And when the ceremony is over, we throw them into the street, but not because we hate them."^[1]

 

Heaven and Earth not needing actual sacrific of animals.

 

It seems to mean that God/Cosmic/Source love is impersonal and therefore able to care for all beings as opposed to just the me and mine, which would therefore not be love at all. No attachment to any one being.

 

I don't do qigong. It makes it me very hyper. I've heard such stated elsewhere so apparently, it's not just me. I did do Tai Chi for a bit but I was unwell at the time and couldn't continue. I would like to try it again as my guess is the energy share would offset what doing Tai Chi or Qigong alone, does to me. I have long had an interest in it and would dearly love to learn it but it really does set me back. I've been for chi healing from a highly qualified Tai Chi/Acupuncture practitioner and that was very interesting. I'd like to do that again.

 

I've looked into Trad Chin Medicine and find it to be the most powerful tool for diagnosing and treating illness. Their system is second to none.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Traveller

[pi3141]

3 hours ago, Truthspoon said:

The question is who was there able to write down what the Gods had said before humanity was even created?

 

I wouldn't sweat it, it's just something someone made up.

 

Yes thats all true, but who made it up and why and what of the mistranslations that have been used to propagate false doctrines.  

[pi3141]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

But ... I suppose you also found out about "spirituality" from the TV.  Most people do.
You don't want me to add anything, because you only want to feel calm ... selling your soul does make you feel calm, that's why people do it.

 

Well I would like you to answer the question - are men and women equal spiritually? According to your Catholic beliefs.

 

As for TV, well yes "Jesus Christ Superstar" was a great introduction to the significance of Jesus while I was a kid and "The 36th Chamber of Shaolin" was a great movie which revealed some training philosophies. I also read books as I mentioned before.

[rideforever]

14 minutes ago, Traveller said:

Chapter 5

#5

Heaven and Earth are impartial;
They see the ten thousand things as straw dogs.
The wise are impartial;
They see the people as straw dogs.

 

 

... yes it's all impartial, you are born and you die in an endless process of 10,000 things ... countless apparitions appear and then disappear, there is no judgement in it at all.

 

But who is the wise ... these are those who have awoken within the dream and have merged with the Tao ... they are partial for they represent themselves.  As Heaven and Earth is the macrocosm doing it's vast cycle through the universe, a Sage is he that has awoken to become a microcosm himself ...  he is no longer part of the process of the whole universe, he is his own process.

 

 

#20

Everyone else is busy,
But I alone am aimless and depressed.
I am different.
I am nourished by the great mother.

 

 

If not awoken you are part of the ploughing of someone else's field, and are ploughed under after harvest.

If awoken you own your own small field.

 

[rideforever]

6 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

are men and women equal spiritually

 

I respect Catholicism but I am not truly Catholic, I do practices from several different traditions.

As for your question, I am happy to answer but you have to be more specific about exactly what you are asking, perhaps you can clarify it?

 

[pi3141]

13 minutes ago, rideforever said:

I am happy to answer but you have to be more specific about exactly what you are asking, perhaps you can clarify it?

 

No, I am unable to clarify it further I'm afraid, are men and women equal spiritually? Of course I'm alluding to women being allowed to perform roles in church, the article in question discussed women's role in temples - did you even read it?.

 

But whatever, don't answer.  

[Traveller]

10 minutes ago, rideforever said:

But who is the wise ... these are those who have awoken within the dream and have merged with the Tao ... they are partial for they represent themselves.  As Heaven and Earth is the macrocosm doing it's vast cycle through the universe, a Sage is he that has awoken to become a microcosm himself ...  he is no longer part of the process of the whole universe, he is his own process.

 

 

 

 

This sounds like clinging to self. Fear of ending and wishing/hoping to continue. The very things that prevent enlightenment. "The master doesn't overcome nature, he becomes it". So there are innumerable macrocosms? Like saying there are innumerable sources. To say that one can be a separate process to the universe would seem counter to the Dao, at very least and fear based.

 

I still don't see anywhere whereby it's stated that not all make it to enlightenment. I'm not suggesting they do but it doesn't state, not have you shown, that the Dao De Jing expresses this. It does state that all beings return to the source...all, not sages or the one's you suggest don't make it. No separate processes ever implied- quite the opposite. Watch the turmoil of berings but contemplate their return, as it says. You may surmise that means recycling but it does not appear that way.

[Steph]

27 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

I respect Catholicism but I am not truly Catholic, I do practices from several different traditions.

As for your question, I am happy to answer but you have to be more specific about exactly what you are asking, perhaps you can clarify it?

 

Its a generality but women tend to take to the spiritual life quicker than men. In a world filled with heavy weight boxers, the dainty little cupcakes prefer a bit of judo.

[Steph]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

Empty yourself of everything.
Let the mind become still.
The ten thousand things rise and fall 
while the Self watches their return.

 

The Self watches things rise and fall, but not people .. .people are part of that which rises ... and falls (dies)

They grow and flourish and then 
return to the source.
Returning to the source is stillness, 
which is the way of nature.
The way of nature is unchanging.
Knowing constancy is insight.
Not knowing constancy leads to disaster.

 

Disasters happen there is no guarantee

Knowing constancy, the mind is open.
With an open mind, you will be openhearted.
Being openhearted, you will act royally.

Being royal, you will attain the divine.
Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao.
Being at one with the Tao is eternal.
And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away.

 

Attaining the divine comes from a certain change in you so that you become a Sage ... and then you become eternal.  

 

When he says that the Sage understands man is a straw dog it means that few attain Sagedom and few are eternal.   Everyone returns to the Source and are recycled when the recycling truck comes.   But a Sage is not like that because he has merged with the Source and is thereby eternal.

 

 

- what type of qigong do you do then?

Did you write that? Can I steal it for my site?

[rideforever]

@pi3141

Are women allowed to lead the Catholic Church?  No.  Why, because that's not what they do there.  Jesus had 12 students all men.   Similarly for Buddha.  And there path has chosen that choice and that's it.

 

In the Osho ashram and other places like Anandamayi Ma it's a different story if that's what you want.  But they do not go so high.

 

Same thing in the military or on mountaineering expeditions, the higher you go the more tightknit things have to be.  When your life is on the line you want people who are dependable hand chosen, because life and death is on the line.  Normally it's all men, sometimes there could be a husband and wife.

 

Today one Buddhist centre which is very good has men one the left side of the hall, women on the right ... during meditation, with a divider between, the teacher sits at the front and can see all.   Out of the hall things are mixed.   This is a good solution for modern times that they have chosen there.

 

All these kinds of real spiritual activities are not welcomed by the society.   They loathe them, they positively want to wipe them off the face of the Earth.  It's instinctive herd behaviours.   As much as they talk of progress what they really hate is any change at all, especially from people who talk about lofty ideas.

So, when society discusses what it wishes to inflict on the church ... it is an attempt to destroy them because then the sheep sleep soundly.

 

It's a fact that all the pioneering and very high teachers are men.  What does that mean?  One thing it may mean is that mean are capable of doing the isolation and violent self searching required to hit the peaks.  Many women are awakened, probably more than men, but at a much lower level.

 

Why are women and men different?  Why are there two sets of dangly bits?  Is existence cruel?  Why do women have periods, is it a statement of hate by the universe?  Well if you love children, family, motherhood and community ... no, it's an incredible incredible joy that men will never know.

 

One thing about this universe is that it is much more real ... than people might think.  Good things are real, true individual immortality is real.  And bad things are also real.  It's not equal at all, because the universe, this universe did not choose to manufacture equal robots.

Some are thick, some geniuses.   Some are fucking ugly, some movie stars.   Some are soulless and some are soulful.

Some have opportuntiies, others have none.

Some take their opportunities, others ruin the opportunities of others.

 

In all this human beings are strange, because they can understand some deep truths, but ... only with a small part of their mind.   The rest of it is still an ape, or worse, a fallen ape.  So it's painful.   Normally you would expect a creature like a human being to be simply an ape, but somehow it has also a higher vision that has emerged recently, so it can see truth ... but from a dark carcass.

Why is it like this?  Surely this makes man suffer, isn't this unfair?

And why is it that some oak trees do not grow in wide open fields, but the acorn rolls down the hill to take root in some godforsaken shithole will no sun - what is that oak tree supposed to do now?  Does the universe hate it?  Is it unfair, unequal.

 

It doesn't matter why.  It is how it is.

Your only choice is the road in front of you ... to be or not to be.

Chose ... try, try hard, try hard from a bad situation ... or don't try and get swallowed up by the mud.

[rideforever]

34 minutes ago, Steph said:

Did you write that? Can I steal it for my site?

 

It's the Tao Te Ching translated by Gia Fu Feng/ Jane English.

 

http://soulproject.synthasite.com/resources/existential_essentials/tao te ching, laozi.pdf

 

 

[rideforever]

6 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Read it.

 

Osho gave a good go at good relationships between men and women, they were happy people, relaxed and loving.  I spent some time in those places.  They don't ever talk about equality.

 

Men and Women in Spiritual Centres and Society

Two important things.   Women's menstrual cycle is very disturbing for men at the astral level.  Many things are done in spiritual centres to remove disturbances including the separation of men and women.

 

A second and very important thing is that they use language very differently.  Men are designed to deal with life threatening situations against other predators, therefore the highest type of intelligence inside human beings is inside the hunting mind of men.  It was the area that is most critical and most needed development.   Engineers when building bridges use this same intelligence, as does Buddha when analysing reality.   This intelligence was original, so it seems, designed to facilitate the hunting by men and therefore very Objective, meaning it sees reality correctly.   Spiritual men re-target that same hunting mind to spiritual goals.  The language of men is used with the hunting mind to share information about hunting.

 

Women use language very differently; they use it to maintain relationships, with their children, family and community ... this language has an emotional purpose, it is language but really it is the emotional function of women that is working .. the words themselves are not important.

So ... two ways of living.  But if you put them together disaster.

 

Probably the left/right political split and other social stratifications are reflecting the different types of functioning of men and women.   And that is why it is also very important for the their social functions to be separated, with men dealing with the external yang aspect of society, and women the internal yin aspect.

 

Traditional society works in a rhythm of together then apart then together then apart.  During the day the women are together and separate from men, but later they are together.  This rhythm is like breathing, and is very good.

If men and women are together all the time they lose their polarity, and they don't get anything from each other any more.  The separation recharges their polarity, which creates an enjoyable juice when together.

 

Today because we live in an era of total degeneracy in the West, with disease stupidity and destruction at every level .. here in a crumbling castle you can have any equality you want, you can have everyone hang out together and watch the place burn up.

 

Although let's say that Osho's ideas use this strange period before destruction to do at least something useful between men and women.

 

And after it dies, a new group of people will come, and they will once again, as it is every done ... simply follow what is normal and sane.   And they will be successful, and so on

 

[killing raven sun]

6 hours ago, Traveller said:

6 of one...

 

In the condemnation of others lies the justification of ourselves?

its clear that some of the "christians" here are spreading darkness

 

one in particular is very angry and negative, i think you know who that is

 

jesus may have been a good man but christians are a death cult, they are eager to die and want you to die also

[rideforever]

49 minutes ago, killing raven sun said:

die also

Every day people die ... mostly they die when they think they've got 20 years left.  If you've been close to death then you learn some things, you are going down.  And probably your society will be falling apart in civil war as you leave.

Only the wise see this coming, and have enough spirit to find the real life.

The rest just don't want to be disturbed, they are so scared ... scared and have no answers, somewhere behind their eyes they know the lights are going out day by day and there is no hope.  Anyone who mentions hope just adds to the pain and must be eliminated.

The dark night of the soul ...

"I am the Gate".

The Catholic are very beautiful, they recognize the simple facts of life birth marriage and death, and they light candles and they reach to the Source and they merge with the source.  Such people are rare jewels, because although they are nobody special - often the church is filled with the plainest folk - they do understand, and they do have hope, and ... they do attain. 

The Catholic does reach God, and does live beyond the death of the flesh.  For them it's not words, because they practice simply and effectively and collectively and it's a sight to behold.

They are a true society of real men, who do not live through cowering but through climbing.

They see all the mickey mouse and insanity on the news like we all do ... but they have been working, patiently, with their families on Sundays, for the world of light.

And they do deserve it.

For them they die with God inside, put there drop by drop over years and with their loved ones, and they close their eyes with no need of fear.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by rideforever