killing raven sun Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) freedom is the ability to do wrong doing right is constrained to right action the right way to live is environmental harmony do no harm, allow no suffering working toward healing where there is pain happiness should be the goal of all communities all members of the community must be fed, clothed and housed wellness shall be the responsibility of every community member happiness starts with being healthy the world today is unwell communities are fractured full of greed and solitary pleasures the obsession of excess causes pain and death some try to force a corporate solution salvation in a box a happiness dictated by commercials scripted by liars this top down enforcement of joy is a war on your soul a happyghanistan that leads to darkness the best government on earth is the one that already provides all our needs food, water and air freely available in nature evil men snatch up these resources and sell them back to you in exchange for hard labor outgrow them Edited November 4, 2020 by killing raven sun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 13 hours ago, killing raven sun said: freedom is the ability to do wrong doing right is constrained to right action the right way to live is environmental harmony do no harm, allow no suffering working toward healing where there is pain happiness should be the goal of all communities all members of the community must be fed, clothed and housed wellness shall be the responsibility of every community member happiness starts with being healthy 1 also freedom is the ability to do right, doing wrong is constrained to wrong action 2 the right way to live is environmental harmony , quantify environmental harmony just by living in a house whether in the city or bush is detrimental to the environment to some degree ,I hope you are not suggesting we all don loin cloths and live like the Kalahari Bush Men 3 do no harm, allow no suffering. I think this should be do no intentional harm, the other day I stopped the traffic to rescue a bird that had obviously been hit by a car and was stunned,everyone else was just driving around the poor bloody thing, anyway by doing that how many ants did I squash walking back to pick up the bird and for that mater how many meals for other animals did I forgo by rescuing it. (allow no intentional suffering) How do I know if people are suffering or not, particularly ones I don't know, and even if I do how will I stop it depending on the situation 4 working toward healing where there is pain, this is obviously preferred in most instances, however some people have their entire existence defined by pain and that is all they have and are comfortable with it whatever form it may take, if it is removed they have nothing ,would you do that to someone 5 happiness should be the goal of all communities, since communities are an abstract construct for the collective ,it may be more appropriate that happiness should be the goal of all individuals within the community,and not just the human variety 6 all members of the community must be fed, clothed and housed provided they want to be, this leads us back to No2 environmental harmony 7 wellness shall be the responsibility of every community member, this I agree with, they are responsible for themselves primarily, however this statement also brings into account charity and their organizations. There are two things here, how many in the community give to charity coming from a truly selfless position with a genuine desire to help the less fortunate and how many give so they feel better about themselves which is a rather selfish attitude. However we still have the same outcome, one with a sense of responsibility and one without 8 happiness starts with being healthy , maybe but I would put it the other way round for people with psychological issues ,however granted you can't have one without the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killing raven sun Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 hour ago, peter said: 1 also freedom is the ability to do right, doing wrong is constrained to wrong action close. in any situation there can only be one right action, all other actions are wrong, but those choices of wrong action are infinite in number, unconstrained, a property of the infinite universe all wrong actions are corrected by rightness, if you walk a path and place your foot wrong you fall off a cliff, this wrong action is corrected when you die, which is the right thing to happen when you plunge off a cliff if you walk a path correctly you have no choice in the matter, no freedom, you cannot get lost, you cannot fall and die, you just go the right way but there are infinite ways to fail on your journey 1 hour ago, peter said: 2 the right way to live is environmental harmony , quantify environmental harmony just by living in a house whether in the city or bush is detrimental to the environment to some degree ,I hope you are not suggesting we all don loin cloths and live like the Kalahari Bush Men of course not, i prefer naked in the trees down by the river spending my days eating fruit and fucking 1 hour ago, peter said: 3 do no harm, allow no suffering. I think this should be do no intentional harm, the other day I stopped the traffic to rescue a bird that had obviously been hit by a car and was stunned,everyone else was just driving around the poor bloody thing, anyway by doing that how many ants did I squash walking back to pick up the bird and for that mater how many meals for other animals did I forgo by rescuing it. (allow no intentional suffering) How do I know if people are suffering or not, particularly ones I don't know, and even if I do how will I stop it depending on the situation very self important of you to think you are a birds savior, perhaps it was on a path of realization and you snatched it up before the epiphany, maybe it thinks you are a horrible person for interferring with its enlightenment, maybe you should have just run it over and ended its suffering quickly regardless, proactive measures need to be considered before suffering begins, you cannot stop suffering as easily as preventing it, and there will always be moments of pain, but they can be mitigated by being healthy in body and mind as for helping others, do as you can, some cannot do at all, that is fine, perhaps you play music, the sounds may be healing to some 1 hour ago, peter said: 4 working toward healing where there is pain, this is obviously preferred in most instances, however some people have their entire existence defined by pain and that is all they have and are comfortable with it whatever form it may take, if it is removed they have nothing ,would you do that to someone yes. the community comes first, if a man becomes toxic to the community you cast him out or kill him 1 hour ago, peter said: 5 happiness should be the goal of all communities, since communities are an abstract construct for the collective ,it may be more appropriate that happiness should be the goal of all individuals within the community,and not just the human variety no, communities are not abstract, they are your local environs, including the land and animals, the air and plants, all of those things must be taken care of for the benefit of all community members there are no individuals in a community, it is a dynamic group 1 hour ago, peter said: 6 all members of the community must be fed, clothed and housed provided they want to be, this leads us back to No2 environmental harmony yes, resources must be carefully managed to provide for all, this is an easy task in a world not ruled by greed 1 hour ago, peter said: 7 wellness shall be the responsibility of every community member, this I agree with, they are responsible for themselves primarily, however this statement also brings into account charity and their organizations. There are two things here, how many in the community give to charity coming from a truly selfless position with a genuine desire to help the less fortunate and how many give so they feel better about themselves which is a rather selfish attitude. However we still have the same outcome, one with a sense of responsibility and one without personal wealth is a mental disease, it is a fear of death, the natural world affords no personal wealth except that which you know, and knowledge is a wealth you can share with everyone and never run out 1 hour ago, peter said: 8 happiness starts with being healthy , maybe but I would put it the other way round for people with psychological issues ,however granted you can't have one without the other all psychological problems are cured with proper diet, unfortunately most people(in the west for sure) dont know what a proper diet is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 4 hours ago, killing raven sun said: very self important of you to think you are a birds savior, perhaps it was on a path of realization and you snatched it up before the epiphany, maybe it thinks you are a horrible person for interferring with its enlightenment, maybe you should have just run it over and ended its suffering quickly That is a rather silly statement and has nothing to do with the point I was making 4 hours ago, killing raven sun said: yes. the community comes first, if a man becomes toxic to the community you cast him out or kill him what level of toxicity warrants expulsion or death ,just a little bit or a lot or somewhere in between , more importantly who gets to decide. If it is the entire community ,that is nothing more than mob rule ,maybe you could try to help the person 5 hours ago, killing raven sun said: there are no individuals in a community, it is a dynamic group Of course there are individuals in a community ,it is the individuals that make up the dynamic group called community 5 hours ago, killing raven sun said: yes, resources must be carefully managed to provide for all, this is an easy task in a world not ruled by greed Unfortunately you are missing one important point , the world is run by greedy power hungry psychopaths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killing raven sun Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 15 hours ago, peter said: That is a rather silly statement and has nothing to do with the point I was making balderdash, how do you know that your meddling in the birds affairs did not cause further suffering? if there is no clear path to healing then you must recognize your limitations, preventing suffering should be the goal, but once one is suffering sometimes the best course of action is nothing, sometimes death 15 hours ago, peter said: what level of toxicity warrants expulsion or death ,just a little bit or a lot or somewhere in between , more importantly who gets to decide. If it is the entire community ,that is nothing more than mob rule ,maybe you could try to help the person the community would know when there is a member that needs attention, certainly it would be wise to first try to help them, but if a member has proven that they are prone to use violence, for instance, then they will be judged by the whole community, yes its a mob rule, if you want to call it that petty squabbles between two parties may be harder to mitigate, if the problem cannot be solved and begins to infect the rest of the community then they may decide to cast out both individuals each member of the community must be a leader, responsible always for the health and well being of their immediate surroundings, in cases where harm is happening or is imminent then the individual must act, even if that means killing someone to prevent further suffering, this level of responsibility is vacant in our modern society so it seems harsh and foreign until you consider the reality of politics, prisons and war 15 hours ago, peter said: Unfortunately you are missing one important point , the world is run by greedy power hungry psychopaths yep, in a loving and caring world the people would recognize the danger they pose and kill them all immediately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, killing raven sun said: balderdash, how do you know that your meddling in the birds affairs did not cause further suffering? if there is no clear path to healing then you must recognize your limitations, preventing suffering should be the goal, but once one is suffering sometimes the best course of action is nothing, sometimes death So what your saying is if you see an animal or a person in distress that requires help , fuck it don't bother , that is not the community I would like to live in PS the bird was taken to an animal hospital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killing raven sun Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, peter said: So what your saying is if you see an animal or a person in distress that requires help , fuck it don't bother , that is not the community I would like to live in PS the bird was taken to an animal hospital each does as to their abilities, if you can stop the suffering you do that, if you cannot do anything to help then that is alright as well in your case you were emotionally destablized by the sight of the bird, you could do nothing to help it, you then took it to a third party to alleviate your own suffering, and for all you know they euthanized the bird after you left as an aside regarding the medical community: Quote Iatrogenic Disease: The 3rd Most Fatal Disease in the USA Iatrogenic Disease is defined as a disease that is caused by medical treatment. If a Jumbo Jet crashed and killed 280 people everyday... 365 days a year... year after year... would you be concerned about flying?? Would you question the Federal Aviation Administration? Would you demand answers?? Think about it! Close to 100,000 people dying every year from plane crashes? Sounds Ridiculous??!! Well think again. What if you were told that over 100,000 people are killed and over 2 million people maimed and disabled every year...year after year from modern medicine...would you believe it?? If the higher estimates are used, the deaths due to iatrogenic causes would range from 230,000 to 284,000. Even at the lower estimate of 225,000 deaths per year, this constitutes the third leading cause of death in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagle Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 11/4/2020 at 1:12 AM, killing raven sun said: freedom is the ability to do wrong doing right is constrained to right action the right way to live is environmental harmony do no harm, allow no suffering working toward healing where there is pain happiness should be the goal of all communities all members of the community must be fed, clothed and housed wellness shall be the responsibility of every community member happiness starts with being healthy the world today is unwell communities are fractured full of greed and solitary pleasures the obsession of excess causes pain and death some try to force a corporate solution salvation in a box a happiness dictated by commercials scripted by liars this top down enforcement of joy is a war on your soul a happyghanistan that leads to darkness the best government on earth is the one that already provides all our needs food, water and air freely available in nature evil men snatch up these resources and sell them back to you in exchange for hard labor outgrow them a bit strange to say all this while you have word killing in your user name..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killing raven sun Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, screamingeagle said: a bit strange to say all this while you have word killing in your user name..... if you live in darkness a bright light may kill your self its a warning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, killing raven sun said: in your case you were emotionally destablized by the sight of the bird, you could do nothing to help it, you then took it to a third party to alleviate your own suffering, and for all you know they euthanized the bird after you left There is no emotional destabilization by the sight of the bird, it needed help therefore I tried to help it, It was taken to the animal hospital because they would be in the best position to know what to do ( I wasn't suffering the bird was). What happened after I left is no concern of mine, I did my bit. How did we get to the bloody bird anyway ,it was used in an example about do no harm and I said that should be do no intentional harm ,if you leave the bird out of it, go for a walk in the bush how many small animals do you kill or maim unintentionally underfoot. Now getting back to the bird ,I go out deer shooting for meat every once in a while ,now that must be a paradox Edited November 5, 2020 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killing raven sun Posted November 6, 2020 Author Share Posted November 6, 2020 2 hours ago, peter said: go for a walk in the bush how many small animals do you kill or maim unintentionally underfoot. Now getting back to the bird ,I go out deer shooting for meat every once in a while ,now that must be a paradox if you are killing and maiming small animals when you walk in the woods then you are doing it wrong regardless, if the only way for you to make your way through the woods is by maiming and killing small animals then so be it, you are doing your best, that is all anyone can ask as for the deer, are you setting out to harm a deer or are you securing food? if you are shooting deer for fun you have strayed a bit, if you need food and kill the deer as kindly as possible then you have done your best or just be vege, i have been for twenty five years, its great for the health Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, killing raven sun said: if you are killing and maiming small animals when you walk in the woods then you are doing it wrong If you are walking through undergrowth with thick leaf litter etc or thick grass up to your waist , how can I not help but harm small animals unintentionally eg grubs, insects, nematodes all the way down to single celled animals, ,explain how I'm walking incorrectly Edited November 6, 2020 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killing raven sun Posted November 6, 2020 Author Share Posted November 6, 2020 7 hours ago, peter said: If you are walking through undergrowth with thick leaf litter etc or thick grass up to your waist , how can I not help but harm small animals unintentionally eg grubs, insects, nematodes all the way down to single celled animals, ,explain how I'm walking incorrectly i bet you are an intolerable sod at parties 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, killing raven sun said: i bet you are an intolerable sod at parties I think Jordan Peterson said it best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killing raven sun Posted November 6, 2020 Author Share Posted November 6, 2020 dont know who that is btw, insects are not animals 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 7 hours ago, killing raven sun said: btw, insects are not animals there is two types of life on this planet, some say three which I am inclined to believe but for the most part Flora & Fauna (plant and animal) will suffice. If an insect is not an animal could you please enlighten me as to what it actually is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killing raven sun Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 well, if you want to be pedantic, there is only one kind of life, dna based cell structures top that, professor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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