A New Way forward to better us all

[Bombadil]

Suggesting  not paying council tax, block government buildings etc is something I totally agree with. Problem is I think they’d have a good go at punishing everyone regardless. And I don’t believe that the powers behind it all would ever let it get far enough to make any real change.

 I’m not defeatist , just think the common solutions never work. Even when you seem to get a small victory the government put out new laws to get around them. If the vote goes against them, they just reword the bill and devote. A good example is when they were defeated in the Commons when trying to get backing to attack Syria. This also applies on a loca level as well. For example maybe a group in a local area manage to stop a planning application in field a. They start again by trying to build in field b and so on.

I’m not trying to belittle anyone’s opinion, I go on protests as well in my local area. 
The big problem in my mind is that there is no public cohesion of like minded people. When the protest end many don’t stay in contact. "People who try to do good in their areas don’t always join with other local groups whose goal are more aligned than they realise.Obviously some do but not enough.

 I think we and the public need an organisation? Or some sort of structure in place that we can support and move forward with. This could  be small local groups to unite people in common goals for the improvement of the areas they live in. If people see a difference in the things that matter to them on their doorstep it automatically creates a better environment for all. I.e if the roads are good, school teaching and nourishing children’s mind properly, common decency towards the people around you. Visual progress in solving the issues that face locals day to day. No longer older people feeling or really being isolated but instead respected( where due) as people who have a vast knowledge on how to live without the stresses of modern life, a more simple rewarding life can be had by all whilst utilising the best of modernity to make life easier. If everyone enjoys where they live and consider it a good place to be then this would have a positive effect on a larger national scale. And even if not as hoped, ( I’m trying to suggest a utopian society, know that will never happen), you would still see an improve the where you live. We all have a vision of how we want to live or a place we have seen where we love to live, even in a book. If your surroundings are positive then your thoughts become more positive and you are more likely to search for and be a part of positivity We all ready know this works by removing people who bring is down from our lives.
Something that includes everyone and can become a real challenge to the status quo. Something that cannot be classed as fascist/racist for example.

A very positive thing I gained for having lived in Italy for ten years was not the media crap about all families getting on,eating together, laughing all perfect.That’s not reality as we all know, but almost all places have local traditions a festival every year, something that bring everyone together. Many are based obviously on food and wine. I’ve been to the festival of parsley where all food I love it for example. The locals eat local foods, drink local wines and celebrate the people and the place they are in. An act of respect and appreciation to those locally who enable them to live life they way they do.

You see so little of this now in the U.K where i live but it still exists in isolated pockets. These are also great ways to introduce and welcome people who are new to your area by allowing them to become a part of the tradition. This is how in my mind real community is created instead of the national individual group reality. The lgbt community, the black community, the Irish community or whatever. Maybe we just need THE Community.
A system that encourages free thinking. Respects beliefs. A system that gives every idea and thought a place of equal value at least until it is fairly and adequately discussed. Literally by the people for the people. A place where your qualities are what define you not your “failings”. A place where you can be encouraged to turn your “failings” into qualities.  A place where everyone is valued equally and acknowledged as having a value. 
Sorry for waffling, would love to here everyone’s thoughts on this, and about positive things where you are or that can make difference.

 

[Michi713]

I hear you.  This is part of the problem of taking traditional values out of society and replacing them with meaningless consumerism, dictated by idiot boxes placed in each home.  Isolation—-> alone together. 
 

The left has failed to fill the role of churches in society.  This is why the degradation of communities has happened.  This is why people are walking around insane.  
 

There is a church on every corner in my town. That seems hokey to some people, and I was put off when I first moved here.  To think we can’t buy wine before 12 on a Sunday! 

 But people take care of this place and take care of each other like no other place I have lived.  Some lady lost her dog and the whole town was in on the search.  No place is perfect, but it is a true community. 
 

The problem with “people” is not that they need more introspection.  This amounts to nothing more than navel gazing when nothing real or of substance has ever been instilled in them to begin with.  This is the case of most modern people:  “TV people” born and raised by the media to serve the elite.  
 

What church does on the contrary is turn people’s focus outward, and focus them on how they can serve the place in which they reside and sometimes beyond.  It just so happens to be God’s will, which is good.  
 

It’s just not fashionable lately. 

[Michael]

What i have learned throughout my life is that people usually feel best in their home country. Of course there are some exceptions, but the vast majority likes to be where they grew up. When we see the movements to europe from the middle east and africa, those people soly move, because they are out of perspectives in their home country. (Hunger, war, etc,...)

 

If none of these problems would be at the present, they would stay right where they are. If you look at history, thats what you are seeing too.

So what im saying is, that people love their traditions, their language, their rituals, their sourroundings and so on, which is incredible important.

Mixing cultures on a forced basis (and in large numbers) as it is happening right now, only damages the uniqueness of each and every country.

Things that work in Islam and for islamic people in one part of the world, might not work on another part.

There is simply too much human diversity to bring it all together under one hood. (if you do, there will always be conflicts)

One needs to respect every culture, even if thats not your own and let them life how they see fit.

No one should force religious, political or enviromental agendas on people.

 

And in that uniqueness, while respecting that, you still can have a unified world, as everyone is respected for their heritage and belongings.

Every country should govern itself and it is the people of that country which should decide what can or cant be done.

So if you elect a person and that person does not fullfill his/her promise to serve the people, he/she should be replaced immediatly.

Corruption needs to be stopped point blank at its origin. No more excuses or workarrounds. Politicans also should never have immunity.

They are soly put into place to organize and do as the puplic wants, because it is the puplic, the people that inhabitate the world in large and not some few people that think what is best.

 

Trading with different cultures can be done soly, if you do not destroy their economy for your own benefit. So if there is trading, both parties benefit likewise.

If all of this is respected, there would be no need for war, hunger or any other problem we have right now.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Michael

[rideforever]

Traditional societies are fantastic.   They are based on family (blood), traditional culture crafts, and beliefs (access to the higher world).  And traditional societies defend all these things, which is why they survive.  Infiltrators  rule breakers and imposters are taken outside the gates.

 

The way the 'world' is today in the West people use the same nice sounding words but what they intend is to bring into the heart of the society the destruction of family and the replacement of it with 300 genders, foreigners of all sorts, and anyone who's presence is damaging to the society is to be "respected" ... i.e. nobody is allowed to complain about the destruction of their culture and history.

 

Such is the bent mind of human beings.  When God has a nightmare, in it is only "human beings" for they have no shame and use their intelligence only to hide their corruption.

 

[Bombadil]

Totally agree on countries being more independent. The thing for me is not necessarily just an immigration thing. Where I live in Cornwall u.k. they tend not to like anyone who wasn’t born there. Agree people do better probably with familiarity, but in the society with live never going to happen. That’s why I suggest to involve people more. Won’t  necessarily remove all problems, definitely not major religious issues, but at least people will feel accepted. May help to remove some community tensions etc. One thing I have found is that most people have more in common than they realise. Just been brought up and indoctrinated on the news. Worked with a lot of guys from Bangladesh whilst abroad. Just knowing that the name they used was a surname not a Christian name because of their indoctrination was sad to see. When I asked names one even cried. No one in Europe had ever asked him.

My lady has always abuse because people think she is Polish, change their attitude when she says she is Italian. The really nice people I have met in Cornwall over the years tend to be mostly people who have relocated from elsewhere in u.k. Think it makes them more open minded.

[Bombadil]

3 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Traditional societies are fantastic.   They are based on family (blood), traditional culture crafts, and beliefs (access to the higher world).  And traditional societies defend all these things, which is why they survive.  Infiltrators  rule breakers and imposters are taken outside the gates.

 

The way the 'world' is today in the West people use the same nice sounding words but what they intend is to bring into the heart of the society the destruction of family and the replacement of it with 300 genders, foreigners of all sorts, and anyone who's presence is damaging to the society is to be "respected" ... i.e. nobody is allowed to complain about the destruction of their culture and history.

 

Such is the bent mind of human beings.  When God has a nightmare, in it is only "human beings" for they have no shame and use their intelligence only to hide their corruption.

 

Not religious myself, but can agree totally on your point, regardless of my lack of faith.

[EnigmaticWorld]

Just now, Bombadil said:

Totally agree on countries being more independent. The thing for me is not necessarily just an immigration thing. Where I live in Cornwall u.k. they tend not to like anyone who wasn’t born there.

 

I wonder if that's a modern thing or if it goes back to fear of Barbary pirates enslaving people on the south coast. Maybe a bit of both.

[Captainlove]

47 minutes ago, Bombadil said:

Totally agree on countries being more independent. The thing for me is not necessarily just an immigration thing. Where I live in Cornwall u.k. they tend not to like anyone who wasn’t born there. Agree people do better probably with familiarity, but in the society with live never going to happen. That’s why I suggest to involve people more. Won’t  necessarily remove all problems, definitely not major religious issues, but at least people will feel accepted. May help to remove some community tensions etc. One thing I have found is that most people have more in common than they realise. Just been brought up and indoctrinated on the news. Worked with a lot of guys from Bangladesh whilst abroad. Just knowing that the name they used was a surname not a Christian name because of their indoctrination was sad to see. When I asked names one even cried. No one in Europe had ever asked him.

My lady has always abuse because people think she is Polish, change their attitude when she says she is Italian. The really nice people I have met in Cornwall over the years tend to be mostly people who have relocated from elsewhere in u.k. Think it makes them more open minded.

I live in southwest as you do,I was born here but have travelled alot abroad. I didnt relocate and im ok.

[Bombadil]

10 minutes ago, Captainlove said:

I live in southwest as you do,I was born here but have travelled alot abroad. I didnt relocate and im ok.

I’m sure you are Captainlove. My statement was a bit all encompassing. 

56 minutes ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I wonder if that's a modern thing or if it goes back to fear of Barbary pirates enslaving people on the south coast. Maybe a bit of both.

 

[Brad the lad]

4 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I wonder if that's a modern thing or if it goes back to fear of Barbary pirates enslaving people on the south coast. Maybe a bit of both.

 

Great point made there. My sister has moved to Devon and they are policing their own boarders right now. This is down to a combination of the bullshit being fed to them on BBC/MSM that the south west is 'Very safe from Covid' and the overwhelming fear of anyone from out of town they have (that's there on a good day let alone during this saga).

 

Cornwall is another beast altogether....... Even the Devonians say the people from Cornwall  have a fear of strangers from out of town!

My sister is convinced that the World depression, famine, war and pillage is not hitting Devon...bless her xx.

 

ps- I do hope she is correct for her sake. I have spent my entire life arguing and wanting nothing more than to be wrong. Fingers crossed.

[Bombadil]

3 minutes ago, Brad the lad said:

The Cornish in my village dont like outsiders from down the road

Most Cornish usually get riled up about whether you put the jam or clotted cream on a scone first. Big issue between Devonians and Cornish that one is.

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Bombadil

[Brad the lad]

2 minutes ago, Bombadil said:

 

Out of likes. About right though.

[Bombadil]

Would be nice to hear potential solutions/ideas for going forward at a local level. Something to create good community’s again. Something all could get on board with.

[Captainlove]

8 minutes ago, Bombadil said:

Would be nice to hear potential solutions/ideas for going forward at a local level. Something to create good community’s again. Something all could get on board with.

First solution would be everyone go back to simple mobile phones that ring and text only,not these super iphone things that do everything. Second stop using Amazon,ebay etc. Third use you local small stores not tesco or asda. Also support local farmers for meat and veg or a local community alotment. Fifth start a neigbourhood watch type community and begin to plan how to survive. Just a few ideas may help.

[Steph]

You could go forward by switching off your family destroying, divorce rate escalating, unborn baby in the womb slaughtering, spiritually decieving hypnocult machines called television and its internet equivelents teaching you lingo like "going forward" and ideologies like "in google we trust". Surely a beginning would clear minded acknowledment between members of a society about the unreasonablenes and/or unconscienableness of the world led into a surveillance state under lockdown by the television cult. A society is worthless in any meaning but an association of friends. Who is on the level with one another here?

 

[rideforever]

Can't do anything without light from above, and then live properly using your faculties body heart mind ... which means effort, in any direction.  Stop thinking about other people.

[Nobby Noboddy]

5 hours ago, Steph said:

You could go forward by switching off your family destroying, divorce rate escalating, unborn baby in the womb slaughtering, spiritually decieving hypnocult machines called television and its internet equivelents teaching you lingo like "going forward" and ideologies like "in google we trust". Surely a beginning would clear minded acknowledment between members of a society about the unreasonablenes and/or unconscienableness of the world led into a surveillance state under lockdown by the television cult. A society is worthless in any meaning but an association of friends. Who is on the level with one another here?

 

 

You hit the nail on the head there. TV is exactly as the devices portrayed in 'They Live' and if everybodys TV stopped working it wouldn't be long before people realised how hypnotised they were and started a real life. Let's face it, it was actually designed for nefarious reasons in the first place by the same people guided by the usual suspects. In terms of its addictive nature it is the successful forerunner of social media.

 

I watch so little TV now and I'm starting to love being deprived of the endorphin hit that leads to submission to the state of hypnosis. I STILL get the odd 'think I'll see what's on' feeling but realise that it is a remnant of the addiction. It's quizzes only for me, recorded.

 

I'm not suggesting attacks on infrastructure, but I wouldn't be disappointed if it happened.

[Bombadil]

Guys this is never going to happen. And is not the point of the thread. We are all of us knowledgeable about the worlds problems. I’m looking to find realistic, practical solutions. Divorce and abortion do not bad people make. Christian values are actually what’s got us into this mess in the first place. Start another thread about morals etc. I know people Who watch telly and look after their areas. There’s no problem with immigrants or single parents or children out of wedlock. In fact if you have been married in a church you’re just as brainwashed as the others. Church and religion is invented to profit church and religion. I agree that if we didn’t watch tv or at least a lot less it would help. Same with all media. The problem is we use media as much as anyone to gain info. We need to get people to expand what they want to watch, read etc. Show them it’s not all mainstream and there are other points of view.

Anyway anybody got any good ideas for how to create a better local environment which could catch on to all of our benefits.

 

[EnigmaticWorld]

Just now, Bombadil said:

Christian values are actually what’s got us into this mess in the first place.

 

Care to elaborate? It seems to me that things have got worse in the Western world with the decline of Christianity. Why do the subversive machinations constantly attack Christian values?

 

One could argue that Christianity made the West too soft, and that is a fair point. We might not be in this state if we returned to our pagan roots. I guess that is a debate for another thread though.

 

If there is no social cohesion because we no longer stand for anything as a group of people, then surely people shouldn't be surprised when we get destroyed?

[Bombadil]

I have no problem with Christian/ religious vales per se. More the hypocrisy of the church system. Protection of pedos etc.

 I have unfortunately seen many people who are deeply religious who have been caught in a great many un Christian positions. I have also seen too many governments invoke the name of the Lord in their justification of new war. In many countries they still live in fear of their God.  Not all, not saying you. Think how many people in western societies remained married even though in an abusive relationship. The church and society used pretty harsh methods of ostracising divorced women, single mothers for example. Where and when I grew up is probably very different to now. Pretty much beaten into us at school, no questioning, only obedience. This is my experience of religions not necessarily reality for everyone. Whenever I see the gospel churches in US, I could almost convert, might stand out a bit though, they appear to be joyous and caring. My experience in U.K. has been to see a lot of judgement and holier than thou attitude. Been in hundreds of churches. Have always had an interest in religion, cemeteries etc. Find C of E priests to be a lot more open minded than other religions.

Have always explained that I am an open minded atheist. Meaning  I accept that I could be wrong. I’m always prepared to be corrected and would gladly sit and break bread with anyone regardless of race, religion etc 

Also don’t think it is just a decline in values. Capitalism has done a great job of breaking up families, pitting friend against friend in a fight to survive. Broken the family structure in the sense that before it was possible to have someone at home more often. Normally mum, whether this is right or not. So many people are swimming through shit of daily life and bills. This causes break downs in communication always and strains so many relationships regardless of love.  I’m sure Capatilism was always meant to replace God in any form.

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Bombadil
More waffle

[Michi713]

@Bombadil

The reason you are not getting the answers you want is you can’t scrap society and start over and create it the way you wish it to be.  The forces that are tearing it down are the forces you are advocating for.  You can’t have it both ways.  
 

Capitalism is just as benign in itself as socialism and communism they are just ideas, corrupted by people.  Just like money itself same story.  Just like some churches by some people.  Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  
 

Consumer culture has to be fought by changing ones values away from what they can acquire: from consuming things, lifestyles, experiences to how they can improve life for themselves and others.  
 

This, whether you like it or not, requires a return to traditional values (not remaking them or renaming them as something else).  Values don’t fall out of the sky.  The television has raised at least three generations of people.  How’s that looking now? 
 

Traditional values: personal responsibility, don’t take more than you can afford, care for one another, if you make a baby raise it it’s a life commitment, choices have consequences, “Your Life Means Something!” come from centuries of teaching through religious institutions.  
 

We hold some truths to be self evident:   Secular society, anything goes, everyone is right, doesn’t work.  Scrapping all institutions, because we think the institutions themselves are corrupt will lead to nothing.  

 

[Bombadil]

Totally agree. Don’t want to scrap society and start over. What I am saying is that if we think our local area first and all did that. It would hopefully have a change for the better on a larger scale eventually. I was never brought up under traditional values. Thought that traditional values were the indoctrination we were all trying to be free from. Plus Im not after particular answers was hoping maybe people could suggest ideas without resorting to being pissy and rude. If I wanted that I can talk to any random cunt in the street.plus I certainly don’t advocate what your claiming. Get off your high horse and try being part of the solution.

[Bombadil]

Find it really offensive that it’s implied that I’m supporting the problem. Seems no one wants to look for solution. Just rather complain about the problems. Was hoping to find a way the people on this forum could come together in a positive way in the real world to improve our and others as a result quality of life. In a system that is fairer. Saying capitalism is corrupted by the very people you stand against.

[Michi713]

Sorry to have offended.  No I’m a shit show myself just coming to these realizations.  I’m an outlier.  Never had traditions either.  My mother is an outlier, my son is an outlier.  70 years ago we would have been marginalized all of us, but thanks to forward thinking people we are not now.  
 

I appreciate you, Bombadil.  That’s why I’m talking with you.  Sorry.

[Bombadil]

No offence taken, seemed a little hard at first. I have a habit of responding to quickly and not considering what’s in front of me enough first.

just very frustrating. Clearly so many decent people on here. We live amongst great many screwed up people through or not through fault of their own. Find when I try to do positive things they get knocked back.

For 10 years where I live i gardened like a good robot. Cut the grass every week etc. One day I realised what I was doing was bollocks so I started to deliberately to help the return nature to my garden. Last year had 38 different butterfly species. Not one for first 10 years.

problem is snobby neighbour complained to council. Bitch. Luckily I won my case. But she is what kind of person I deal with on a daily basis.

Anyway once again I apologise for my reaction