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On 11/22/2020 at 9:21 PM, Steph said:

What causes the sun to go retro when its over australia?

I never claimed the Sun went retro. Are you referring to what @Grumpy Owlpointed out with its slight movement to the left? If so, I responded on page one. I explained how this is exactly is what is expected and predicted by the basic FE model as the vast majority of Australia is below 23.4 south latitude and is clearly not possible in spinning ball world.

 

@Eldnahare you still ignoring multiple examples of r being falsified? If so, why?

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not sure which is worse, flat earth trolls or those that argue with them   think about it, if you have studied as i have then you know the flat earth stuff is a sign of serious mental defect

Problem is not in you being ok to understand. This is a very obvious thing to anyone who uses their head.       It is at sea level and has flow with tides. You are very ign

By 'scientific minded', I meand natural philosophers who look at nature and observe it for the love of the wisdom it provides.   You have mistaken my words to mean 'scientifically minded' in

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2 hours ago, amy G said:

never claimed the Sun went retro.

The topic of the thread refers to a sunset video from Australia where the sun sets in a down left direction. I acknowledge the curvature bulge for a ball earth doesn't exist but the sun direction for oz is weird. I dont think flat or round models fit the data.

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On 11/25/2020 at 4:42 AM, Steph said:

The topic of the thread refers to a sunset video from Australia where the sun sets in a down left direction. I acknowledge the curvature bulge for a ball earth doesn't exist but the sun direction for oz is weird. I dont think flat or round models fit the data.

What do you expect for viewers 'below/south of' where the Sun ever moves?

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I'm not sure now the lack of curviture is pointed out but the sun appears to be going right to left in oz and this from a video that doesn't look manufactured. At the same time another video points out the earth has no curviture. These are videos and from my own eyes I can say in Britain, the sun goes left to right and it appears like a circular motion which is in fixed position with most of the stars which go in a counter-clockwise rotation around a point near the star called polaris. They and the sun travel at the same speed doing one cycle per day (this isnt chronometered and protracted but the general look of it from observations). The planets can be identified as the stars that move at different speeds from the other stars. The moon travels at its own speed and the reflection on its spherical looking surface doesn't appear to come directly from the sun but from a point in its general direction. This latter aspect may be evidence that light has a finite speed and the reflection we see was from where the sun was earlier. There may be other explanations. Lets distinguish the difference between theories (which can include 'everyone believes it') and theorems where it is shown that nothing other than that theorem can explain the phenomenon.

 

Here's a theory: Man descended from ape like creature's because it would explain things a bit.

 

Here's a throrem:

 

Pythagoras's Proof

triangle-vK6HGJAmjD.png?width=1200

Given any right triangle with legs a a a and bb b and hypotenuse c cc like the above, use four of them to make a square with sides a+b a+ba+b as shown below:

csquared-8TWIMHX0sg.png?width=1200

This forms a square in the center with side length c c c and thus an area of c2. c^2. c2.

However, if we rearrange the four triangles as follows, we can see two squares inside the larger square, one that is a2 a^2 a2 in area and one that is b2 b^2 b2 in area:

asquaredbsquared-ONOvtHou7l.png?width=12

Since the larger square has the same area in both cases, i.e. (a+b)2 (a+b)^2 (a+b)2, and since the four triangles are also the same in both cases, we must conclude that the two squares a2 a^2 a2 and b2 b^2 b2 are in fact equal in area to the larger square c2 c^2 c2.

Thus, a2+b2=c2 a^2 + b^2 = c^2 a2+b2=c2. □ _\square

 

 

 

Are we agreed that there's a lot of hard to shift beliefs that may be incorrect that people won't want to even see the proof of so important is their ignorance. Away with ignorance, what can we learn from it. Who could dispute pythagorahs reasoning by ignoring it and they will believe Darwin without question and find the likes of the above unimportant. Maybe Darwin's wrong. Maybe some of us haven't evolved at all. Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Shows yer ditties!

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On 11/25/2020 at 1:58 AM, amy G said:

I explained how this is exactly is what is expected and predicted by the basic FE model as the vast majority of Australia is below 23.4 south latitude and is clearly not possible in spinning ball world.

 

Amy G - "I'm sorry but explanations are not demonstrable science."

I request you supply with us the basic 'FE model', otherwise you are pulling rabbits from out of your rear end. The model should show how Australia is fitting on the map.

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16 hours ago, Steph said:

I'm not sure now the lack of curviture is pointed out but the sun appears to be going right to left in oz and this from a video that doesn't look manufactured. At the same time another video points out the earth has no curviture. These are videos and from my own eyes I can say in Britain, the sun goes left to right and it appears like a circular motion which is in fixed position with most of the stars which go in a counter-clockwise rotation around a point near the star called polaris. They and the sun travel at the same speed doing one cycle per day (this isnt chronometered and protracted but the general look of it from observations). The planets can be identified as the stars that move at different speeds from the other stars. The moon travels at its own speed and the reflection on its spherical looking surface doesn't appear to come directly from the sun but from a point in its general direction. This latter aspect may be evidence that light has a finite speed and the reflection we see was from where the sun was earlier. There may be other explanations. Lets distinguish the difference between theories (which can include 'everyone believes it') and theorems where it is shown that nothing other than that theorem can explain the phenomenon.

 

Here's a theory: Man descended from ape like creature's because it would explain things a bit.

 

Here's a throrem:

 

Pythagoras's Proof

triangle-vK6HGJAmjD.png?width=1200

Given any right triangle with legs a a a and bb b and hypotenuse c cc like the above, use four of them to make a square with sides a+b a+ba+b as shown below:

csquared-8TWIMHX0sg.png?width=1200

This forms a square in the center with side length c c c and thus an area of c2. c^2. c2.

However, if we rearrange the four triangles as follows, we can see two squares inside the larger square, one that is a2 a^2 a2 in area and one that is b2 b^2 b2 in area:

asquaredbsquared-ONOvtHou7l.png?width=12

Since the larger square has the same area in both cases, i.e. (a+b)2 (a+b)^2 (a+b)2, and since the four triangles are also the same in both cases, we must conclude that the two squares a2 a^2 a2 and b2 b^2 b2 are in fact equal in area to the larger square c2 c^2 c2.

Thus, a2+b2=c2 a^2 + b^2 = c^2 a2+b2=c2. □ _\square

 

 

 

Are we agreed that there's a lot of hard to shift beliefs that may be incorrect that people won't want to even see the proof of so important is their ignorance. Away with ignorance, what can we learn from it. Who could dispute pythagorahs reasoning by ignoring it and they will believe Darwin without question and find the likes of the above unimportant. Maybe Darwin's wrong. Maybe some of us haven't evolved at all. Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Shows yer ditties!

You liked the post above and I still don't understand yet what your confusion is as the Sun must appear to set to left below about 23.4 degrees south as it never makes it any farther south. The setting to the right between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn (about 23.4 degrees n and 23.4 degrees s) is likewise exactly what is predicted in the most basic FE model.

 

gleasons-map-high-resolution-restored-1-638.jpg?cb=1552026946

 

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3 hours ago, amy G said:

You liked the post above and I still don't understand yet what your confusion is as the Sun must appear to set to left below about 23.4 degrees south as it never makes it any farther south. The setting to the right between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn (about 23.4 degrees n and 23.4 degrees s) is likewise exactly what is predicted in the most basic FE model.

 

 

Your 'most basic FE model' may correctly predict this, but equally on the 'globe model', in the southern hemisphere the sun will appear to 'rise' in the east and 'set' in the west, but will traverse the sky across the north, rather than the south, as we see here in the northern hemisphere.

 

As I've said before, I've never been to the southern hemisphere to see this for myself, but I would trust the observations of those who DO live there and have seen this for themselves.

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The model of the earth must account for no (or much less) curviture and it must account for n apparent change of direction of the sun. If I am standing on the northern tropic during summer solstice, the sun is travelling from the east to the west directly above me. If I unbutton my shirt and reveal my superman cape and fly north a thousand miles, the sun continues travelling 'apparently' left to right in the south. I fly south 2000 miles and look north and the sun continues travelling but 'apparently' now from right to left in the north. Theres an 'apparent' change of direction that the curved earth model accounts for but since theres no (or much less) curviture, something else must be going on. The sun is also roughly fixed to the position of the stars, which are going around in circles in what appears (apparently) to me as a sphere rather than a disk. If the earth is a sphere its much larger if a 70 foot bulge cant be seen across ten miles. Dont ask me for the answers. I may be made in the image of god but I'm not the almighty, I didn't make it. I'm thinking maybe Nasa made something though that looks like the earth but cant be if their model is more curvy than what can be shown to be the truth without the need for a spaceship. (I'm off to the nearest telephone booth to put my shirt back on - people would be shocked where I keep my clothes while flying - that bulge isn't a globe map of the air certified by Nasa).

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11 hours ago, Grumpy Owl said:

Your 'most basic FE model' may correctly predict this...

It does perfectly. We agree. 🙂

 

11 hours ago, Grumpy Owl said:

...but equally on the 'globe model'

No! It absolutely does not. We experience a sunset in the man made construct of heliocentrism because we are on a ball that is spinning away from the sun. The apparent leftward movement is simply impossible and if you would like to prove this to yourself, you can.

 

Take a real close look at the CGI cartoons of the supposed real life sunsets behind our supposed ball that nasa gives us from the iss or their international pantomime stage.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by amy G
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4 hours ago, amy G said:

  It does perfectly. We agree. 🙂

 

Which model fits? You are coward troll who is avoiding my questions and polite requests. Show the forum the map of the flat earth.

 

4 hours ago, amy G said:

 No! It absolutely does not. We experience a sunset in the man made construct of heliocentrism because we are on a ball that is spinning away from the sun. 

 

This is a crazy and stupid claim, we are not spinning away from the sun, we are in elliptical orbit together with all planets, observed by simple astronomy. 

 

4 hours ago, amy G said:

 The apparent leftward movement is simply impossible and if you would like to prove this to yourself, you can.

 

There are no words to show how ignorant this claim. You are like the drowning man who denies the tide.

 

4 hours ago, amy G said:

  

Take a real close look at the CGI cartoons of the supposed real life sunsets behind our supposed ball that nasa gives us from the iss or their international pantomime stage.

 

 

 

The 'proof' for your claim lies in your own head. Your own head sees what it wants and is frequent pure BS. CGI takes long time to create and there is 24x7 channel of ISS. You must be young person and have no memories of Skylab, Salyut and Mir. This is may years ahead of CGI!

 

Russian Mir space station operated in low Earth orbit from 1986 to 2001: Archives - YouTube

 

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Ailsa Craig 30 miles away google street view

 

This is an island off the west coast of Scotland famous due to its outstandingness on a seascape the people in the west central belt of Scotland take days out to sunbathe at. There will be few in the west of Scotland who haven't seen this sight.

 

In the photo its a silouette but you still see the familiar shape with the dramatic change in the contour of the silouette on its right where at 180m above sea level, the rocks steepnes shallows. 180 metres roughly according to the google terrain map.

 

The peak is 330 metres or there abouts, and if you do the maths the ridge is 6/11ths the way up. About just over half way. The photo in the first link shows just under halfway (!)

 

180m is 590ft, 330m is 1080ft, the vertical distance from peak to ridge being 490ft

 

The bulge equation for 30 miles says a bulge of 150 foot meaning we should only be able to see the top 930 foot causing an apparent above ridge ratio of 49/93 - just under half (!!).

 

Erastothenes presumption looks legit from here.

 

 

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Darn! I was sure I found the evidence as not only these vehicles, but also entire roads were not visible from the observation point. It turns out, yet again, it was just an issue with perspective and understanding how a vanishing point works.

 

 

 

FE = 33,000,000 ----- GE = 0

 

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On 12/4/2020 at 6:09 AM, Grumpy Owl said:

Your 'most basic FE model' may correctly predict this, but equally on the 'globe model', in the southern hemisphere the sun will appear to 'rise' in the east and 'set' in the west, but will traverse the sky across the north, rather than the south, as we see here in the northern hemisphere.

that is exactly what happens

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On 11/25/2020 at 1:58 AM, amy G said:

Are you referring to what @Grumpy Owlpointed out with its slight movement to the left? If so, I responded on page one. I explained how this is exactly is what is expected and predicted by the basic FE model as the vast majority of Australia is below 23.4 south latitude and is clearly not possible in spinning ball world.

 

On 12/5/2020 at 2:25 AM, peter said:

that is exactly what happens

Thank-you!

 

And I would love to see this globe destruction finally understood:

https://i1.wp.com/flatearthdeception.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/flat-earth-suez-canal-1.gif?resize=480%2C480

 

Moreover, how can this canal not flow both ways?

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5 hours ago, amy G said:

And I would love to see this globe destruction finally understood:

https://i1.wp.com/flatearthdeception.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/flat-earth-suez-canal-1.gif?resize=480%2C480

 

 

Problem is not in you being ok to understand. This is a very obvious thing to anyone who uses their head.

 

suez-canal.jpg

 

5 hours ago, amy G said:

Moreover, how can this canal not flow both ways?

 

It is at sea level and has flow with tides. You are very ignorant.

 

 

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not sure which is worse, flat earth trolls or those that argue with them

 

think about it, if you have studied as i have then you know the flat earth stuff is a sign of serious mental defect, there is no way to use reason to reach these people, they lack a framework of understanding, they are too ignorant of basic reality to be educated, without critical thinking skills they will never be able to see the truth of anything, they live in total delusion and are proud of it

 

your arguements are the confirmation of their position, they feel validated because you are attacking them, they long to be persecuted because they live easy but desire conflict, much of it is biblical, they have been lied to and molested by their faith and need to fight to reconcile their lives, they were too proud to admit they were mislead by charlatans and now defend the indefensible hoping to bring more into their darkness, they exemplify the addage "misery loves company"

 

so if you fight with flat earthers you are entertaining the miserable

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On 12/9/2020 at 10:31 PM, killing raven sun said:

not sure which is worse, flat earth trolls or those that argue with them

 

think about it, if you have studied as i have then you know the flat earth stuff is a sign of serious mental defect, there is no way to use reason to reach these people, they lack a framework of understanding, they are too ignorant of basic reality to be educated, without critical thinking skills they will never be able to see the truth of anything, they live in total delusion and are proud of it

 

your arguements are the confirmation of their position, they feel validated because you are attacking them, they long to be persecuted because they live easy but desire conflict, much of it is biblical, they have been lied to and molested by their faith and need to fight to reconcile their lives, they were too proud to admit they were mislead by charlatans and now defend the indefensible hoping to bring more into their darkness, they exemplify the addage "misery loves company"

 

so if you fight with flat earthers you are entertaining the miserable

 

Credit where credit is due , I agree with your assumptions above for the majority (they lack a framework of understanding, they are too ignorant of basic reality to be educated, without critical thinking skills) exactly, and this is due to the education system, critical and lateral thinking coupled with a logical progression of the thought process are things that are definitely not taught in schools any more, the powers that be definitely don't want people that are able to think,hence the average attention span is limited to a 5 second sound bite on their phone , you couple that with the identity me,me,me  generation ,what hope do they have?. Once they latch onto an identity ( in this case ,I'm a flat earther ) it will become sacrosanct above every thing else and therefore they will defend that position to the death. No matter what evidence is put before them they lack the cognitive skills necessary to garner what that evidence actually means ,but more importantly they will not be able to admit to themselves or to anyone else that their respective identity is indeed faulty.

I will admit that they live in total delusion but I don't think they are proud of that delusion parse, for the very fact the majority don't realize they are deluded, however they are obviously proud of the fact they are a member of the flat earth society, and as such it is us against all comers .

Now for the minority ,I believe the people that are driving this crap have ulterior motives, and that is one of financial gain. Weather indeed they believe in the flat earth or not is irrespective , in my opinion it all boils down  to money and power ( the power to influence the gullible to alleviate them from their money)

 

Now for the people that argue with them, as I have said before if you don't bite ,they don't get to play ,so I agree that it is just as much the fault as those against the flatters as the flatters themselves, however If you look at the start of the thread most thought this would be a genuine debate all that has happened is that it turned from debate to frustration then to boredom  and then monotony , I admitted that the flat earth thread had reduced me to just a few well placed sarcastic comments( I don't comment on the FE, or gravity thread and this will be my last post on this one as well )and I agree that the fact that I was reduced to a few sarcastic comments is entirely my fault ,and no one else's , I can't speak for anyone else

On 12/9/2020 at 10:31 PM, killing raven sun said:

so if you fight with flat earthers you are entertaining the miserable

Maybe we could look at this from a different perspective, maybe just maybe, people are arguing with the flat earthers out of empathy, because even the most miserable asshole deserves a bit of entertainment in their respective lives.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not coming at you from a higher state of vibration, lets be honest Mr G AKA Bflat gives me the fucking shits ,just like he does to a few others I suspect ,but at least I will admit it

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What a fascinating post. And on so many levels. Thank-you @peter for such well thought out declarations. So intriguing, it begs serious questions:

1 hour ago, peter said:

Credit where credit is due , I agree with your assumptions above for the majority (they lack a framework of understanding, they are too ignorant of basic reality to be educated, without critical thinking skills) exactly, and this is due to the education system, critical and lateral thinking coupled with a logical progression of the thought process are things that are definitely not taught in schools any more, the powers that be definitely don't want people that are able to think,hence the average attention span is limited to a 5 second sound bite on their phone , you couple that with the identity me,me,me  generation ,what hope do they have?.

Our schools worldwide definitely suck. I think we all agree there. Even a brilliant man like yourself places space before commas, no spaces sometimes and periods after question marks. Some people may look at that as highly ignorant, but from our conversations, I know otherwise.

 

To the rest, one could just as easily say that the majority OF HELIOCENTISTS lack a framework of understanding. They are too ignorant of basic reality to be educated and possess no critical thinking skills.

 

The powers that be definitely don't want people that are able to think, hence the average attention span is limited to a 5 second sound bite.

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

Once they latch onto an identity ( in this case ,I'm a flat earther ) it will become sacrosanct above every thing else and therefore they will defend that position to the death. No matter what evidence is put before them they lack the cognitive skills necessary to garner what that evidence actually means ,but more importantly they will not be able to admit to themselves or to anyone else that their respective identity is indeed faulty.

On the other hand, Once they latch onto an identity (in this case A BELIEVER OF HELIOCENTRIC LIES WITH NO DEMONSTRABLE PROOF) they will become sacrosanct above every thing else and therefore they will defend that position to the death. No matter what evidence is put before them they lack the cognitive skills necessary (AND THEY ARE FAR TOO TRUSTING OF KNOWN LIARS) to garner what that evidence actually means, but more importantly they will not be able to admit to themselves or to anyone else that their respective identity is indeed faulty.

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

I will admit that they live in total delusion but I don't think they are proud of that delusion parse, for the very fact the majority don't realize they are deluded, however they are obviously proud of the fact they are a member of the flat earth society, and as such it is us against all comers .

And again, I will admit that heliocentrists live in total delusion, but I don't think they are proud of that delusion parse, for the very fact the majority don't realize they are deluded. However they are obviously proud of the fact they are a member of the FREEMASON'S RELIGION WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN INDOCTRINATED INTO WITHOUT (many times) EVER SIGNING UP FOR OR EVEN NOTICING and as such it is us against all comers.

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

Now for the minority ,I believe the people that are driving this crap have ulterior motives, and that is one of financial gain. Weather indeed they believe in the flat earth or not is irrespective , in my opinion it all boils down  to money and power ( the power to influence the gullible to alleviate them from their money)

Yeah, there are certainly shill sock accounts on this board, but whether they are paid or not is irrelevant. Nasa and their ilk getting trillions off of damn lies. Follow the money!

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

Now for the people that argue with them, as I have said before if you don't bite ,they don't get to play ,so I agree that it is just as much the fault as those against the flatters as the flatters themselves, however If you look at the start of the thread most thought this would be a genuine debate all that has happened is that it turned from debate to frustration then to boredom  and then monotony

They can respond all they want with demonstrable reality. Everything else is distraction, hence your frustration, boredom and monotony. This is all the FE asks for. This is all I have asked for.

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

I admitted that the flat earth thread had reduced me to just a few well placed sarcastic comments( I don't comment on the FE, or gravity thread and this will be my last post on this one as well )and I agree that the fact that I was reduced to a few sarcastic comments is entirely my fault ,and no one else's

This whole section is astounding considering that you rank numero uno on the main FE thread. Baffling:

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

I don't comment on the FE, or gravity thread and this will be my last post

"Top Posters In This Topic

 

And that is just on one thread. If you were being sarcastic, great stuff!

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

Maybe we could look at this from a different perspective, maybe just maybe, people are arguing with the flat earthers out of empathy, because even the most miserable asshole deserves a bit of entertainment in their respective lives.

On the other hand, and more certainly, it are those who have figured it out that are here with empathy because they actually are loving human beings who care for others and our world.

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

I don't comment on the FE, or gravity thread and this will be my last post on this one as well

I'll take that bet. You've already been sucked back in... 😉

 

Hope you and the fam are well.

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On 12/9/2020 at 12:31 PM, killing raven sun said:

not sure which is worse, flat earth trolls or those that argue with them

 

think about it, if you have studied as i have then you know the flat earth stuff is a sign of serious mental defect, there is no way to use reason to reach these people, they lack a framework of understanding, they are too ignorant of basic reality to be educated, without critical thinking skills they will never be able to see the truth of anything, they live in total delusion and are proud of it

 

your arguements are the confirmation of their position, they feel validated because you are attacking them, they long to be persecuted because they live easy but desire conflict, much of it is biblical, they have been lied to and molested by their faith and need to fight to reconcile their lives, they were too proud to admit they were mislead by charlatans and now defend the indefensible hoping to bring more into their darkness, they exemplify the addage "misery loves company"

 

so if you fight with flat earthers you are entertaining the miserable

 

I have no doubts that @amy Gis attempting to do such things for monetary reasons.  I think the object would be to stop this happening with some arguments back - it is frustrating on one level, but one must remember more read the thread than delusional flat earth people. I recall solution on old forum was expel threads of such subjects to the 'Rant Room' and hide form public.

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@killing raven sun

I'm just honestly curious as to how you have reconciled with the laser tests and the infrared footage? If you haven't seen it, you should. It's amazing seeing it for the first time.

 

I think for newbs to this topic it is important to understand these observations and what they mean. But first of all, you need to accept one simple fact. Heliocentrism claims we live on a rock with an approximate radius of 3,959 miles. Is that acceptable? I know it is. 😉

 

https://iili.io/KzSJIa.jpg

And can we trust the math above to be acceptable? I know we can. 😉

 

Just real quick, these laser tests involve shooting a laser several miles across lakes directly into the camera lens at the beach on the other side. The infrared video involves some really nice tech that actually cuts out much of the problems we generally have with long distance viewing through our atmosphere which is actually our atmosplane.

 

And don't worry. I'm not here to argue and don't really even like getting into the whole explanation game. I focus now almost primarily on demonstrable reality. And you can rest assured that while I do believe in our Creator, I am not religious in any way.

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2 hours ago, amy G said:

@killing raven sun

I'm just honestly curious as to how you have reconciled with the laser tests and the infrared footage? If you haven't seen it, you should. It's amazing seeing it for the first time.

i just looked into this and it seems two flattard experiments involving lasers have already disproved the flat earth theory, somehow im not surprised that you offer up failed experiments to defend your position, doctor what is correct about you being fully invested in this hoax, it would be sad to know you werent just doing it for the money

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