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Everything posted by Free_your_mind

  1. Have a re-read of the posts. I am talking about vaccine data. @Tom bombadil chimes in with 'garbage in garbage out'. He then states how it really works, as if he would know. He states no one has ever isolated the virus, but has provided zero credible proof. If you actually knew anything about virology, you wouldn't even make this claim as it's so wrong it just makes you look like you haven't done any independent research. You then copy and paste a mainstream link related to modelling data used by the government?? I reply with an Alan Partridge reference to reflect the robotic nature of copying and pasting information without knowing the content. Then, you accuse me of having a problem of reading! Your article has nothing to do with anything in the posts before, which was about vaccine data not modelling data. Completely different. That's a perfect example of the copy and paste mentality. And then you go on to compound your misjudgement all because you are not willing to actually enter into an exchange of ideas, but rely heavily on Ctrl + V. To address some your points, 'they're supposed to wait 2 years before starting phase 3 of the trials' - It's a global pandemic, is it not reasonable to speed things up a bit? Death toll is only 1.6 million! What are they going to do, twiddle their thumbs? If there was a way to get to the vaccine more quickly, they would take that option. That doesn't imply that safety measures were overlooked. In your worldview, it does. But there's nothing I can do about that. The speed was obtained by overlapping the 3 phases of the trials. So, phase 3 began, as phase 2 was still ongoing. Data (safety measure) was collected and reviewed as the trials were ongoing, whereas they normally do this after each phase as you say. It's not overly complex, and I'm sure most people on here can see how staggering a process which is normally linear would speed up the process. 'This means that the british public are themselves being used as the stage 3 participants'. - completely false. See above. All 3 phases of the clinical trails have been completed before the vaccine was licensed by the regulator. This is a fact. They were staggered to speed it up becasue guess what? Newsflash, a lot of people are dying around the world from a pandemic! You point to a link of how it's normally done. So what? Context is everything, and the context to this vaccine is different to others. A key thing to remember when pulling out details of how things have been done differently for this vaccine and obsessing over them, is that this vaccine has been manufactured IN RESPONSE TO A GLOBAL PANDEMIC. That's the context. The status quo wasn't entirely applicable, the default position needed adjusting to react to the unique challenges that were present. Anti-covid theories/plandemic stuff is mostly a nonsense, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were generated and fueled by Russia or China to destabilie western democracies. Tag cui prodest?
  2. More copy and paste, think for yourself, man! Generate your own thoughts like others in here are doing. Isn't half the fun of being into conspiracy theories is that you can just throw down ideas, play with them, investigate, come up with thought patterns that others haven't thought of. Yet, you're obsessed with copy and pasting the words and ideas of others. Your Ctrl and V buttons must be in bits! You've copied in information on GMO's. So what? I don't get your point so can't respond. I'm not saying this about your above link, but as a general observation, you will always be able to find a picture, a link, a quote, an article to support a view. It is not proof that that view is correct. Just because someone said something once, or they were photographed in a certain pose, or an 'expert' wrote something in support of the argument - isn't a smoking gun. Much more investigation is needed.
  3. 'An acceptable insanity which is the best humans can get'. I like that. It holds an incredible psychological statement on how one can tolerate existence and human suffering. I believe human beings have the ability to endure unbelievable hardships and trauma and still have the ability to move through life without it overwhelming us. It's astonishing. If you think back to our ancestors (I'm sticking to the orthodox version of events here) and what they endured, the natural disasters, filthy water, hunger, predators in the wild - other animals that will eat you! Imagine that as a reality. The diseases, the strong likelihood of infant death, tribal wars, the absolute terror of everything around you that you don't understand. And yet they still moved forward, they still bettered themselves - and others around them. It's worth pointing out that some of the above are still a threat to people in the world today. And it is a luxury to be able to sit here and type my thoughts on the internet. This world is an insanity and humans beings a mere shadow of it. We are so complex that it would be impossible not to be flawed. The spectrum on which a human being can exist is vast, one end, a tyrant that can kill 30 million people, and the other, a being that can do nothing but serve others. And like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, I believe any one person can find themselves in any position on the spectrum, given the right circumstances. We're all human. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said 'The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts'. We should never aim for utopia as it will never arrive. You cannot keep the snake out of the Garden of Eden. The world is an insanity, and the best humans can aim for is to make it as acceptable as possible. It is the hand we have been dealt. Our ancestors have given us the strength the bear it. And from time to time we're even strong enough to flourish and develop ourselves as individuals against the chaos and against all the odds.
  4. Did Icke really say that? [https://www.livescience.com/worst-epidemics-and-pandemics-in-history.html] If you're not afraid of Polio, there's one reason for that - it has been successfully targeted by a vaccine campaign. There are small pockets of the virus left, mainly concentrated to Pakistan and Nigeria, and in labs around the world. In most parts of the world it has been eradicated. Interestingly, the labs and the vaccine itself are now considered the greatest risk of an outbreak in parts of the world - especially in developing countries that are using the old sugar lump method. Which makes sense as if you reduce a virus to zero with a vaccine that contains a weakened form of the virus itself, then the vaccines themselves are the only things that contain the virus (a stable weakened version). Also research labs hold a lot of the virus and it has recently be re-categorised as a Schedule 5 material - to ensure it is handled correctly at these facilities. There is a very small risk that the virus in the vaccine can revert back to the wild type and spread again. I believe efforts are underway to replace the old method of vaccination we a new one, which is much more stable and removes the risk of the virus mutating and reverting back to a transmissible virus.
  5. What was the name of that guy who was predicting a false flag UFO invasion at the 2012 olympics? Big fellow, with a beard if I remember rightly. I randomly thought of him the other day. It's actually the reason that brought me here as I couldn't find him on YouTube. Wonder what he's up to now?
  6. If I can expand; Bruce Lee for his work ethic. His dedication and commitment to self improvement. Christopher Hitchens for his humour, intelligence and wit. His value for freedom of speech at all costs, even if it offends. And boy, did he offend. Jordan Peterson for his psychological perspectives on everything. His message to stay clear of ideology and his wisdom in warning us of the extremes of the far right and far left. Joseph Campbell for his knowledge of archetypes and symbolism. The way he clearly translates metaphors from ancient stories into personal psychological truths.
  7. I don't see how, I would say I was peak Icke between 18-27ish. Guess that's not that uncommon. Suspicion of authority, an over analytical mind and a young adult trying to understand the world. What chance did I have! I don't know about everyone else but I didn't leap into the extreme end straight away. Think it begun with the police state/martial law stuff and then the questioning of reality itself and the more esoteric side of things. Once you undermine reality though, that's when you start picking up the more and more fringe stuff. From what I can tell, the fringe stuff then has become more mainstream now. I was really into the alien theories as well. I don't think I was ever 100% onboard with the reptilian theory but I did consider it possible. I loved all the ancient symbolism to with it. My logic was if people believe in God and that Jesus rose from the dead, then believing in aliens is no different - it's no less strange. And if you believe in aliens, then they could be anything, such as reptilians.
  8. Interesting, 9/11 was a big game changer for me too. Looking back it was a real catalyst, in world events and personal perceptions of the world. Where I probably would have plodded along, dipping into the odd theory here and there. 9/11 sucked me right in and propelled me down the rabbit hole faster that you could say 'dancing Arabs on the bridge'. It certainly was a significant world shaping event. Perception of reality is fascinating to me, I think it is true that we all construct our own reality in some way. There are people out there who will try to alter our perception for our benefit. But, I've moved on from the more wild theories I used to hold on this. I recommend Adam Curtis' documentaries, HyperNormalisation, Bitter Lake, All watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace, if you haven't seen them. I think he gets very close to how the world really works.
  9. I think I remember the bible code documentary. There were prophecies embedded into the scriptures, seem to remember one about Hitler and the Holocaust. But, you're right they were 'clutching at straws' trying to find meaning where there wasn't any. Zietgeist was massive for me, the first time I think I was exposed to grand narratives overlapping each other, such as the religious stuff and 9/11. It was very popular at the time. I've not seen "the arrivals", but I have seen "The Arrival". That's a great film.
  10. Yes, you've collared me. I was embedded into the world of conspiracy theories decades ago by the British army. I built up a vast knowledge of the illuminati bloodlines, everything from secret wisdom to satanic child sacrifice. I then left the movement of free thinkers because I discovered that conspiracies had made me the furthest thing away from a free thinker, to the point of not being able to have a normal conversation with my friends and family. I now years later find myself on the Icke forum trying to sow disinformation. Despite knowing full well that there is no chance in hell to change such an entrenched belief system in anyone. Only a person themselves can do that. Take you for example, you have some serious defense mechanisms to protect your belief system. Any threat of an unknown source that probes your beliefs and asks what I consider serious and relevant questions, then the defenses kick in. Your mind tells you I must be a paid agent. I remember it from these boards before but it definitely wasnt brigade77, that must be a new one. It's an impressive defense system as its characteristics perfectly align with the worldview it defends. I.e. in your worldview, it makes perfect sense that those that question the grand narrative gloabal theory are paid shills. The belief system wants to survive. It cannot show vulnerability and must defend itself at all costs. For the record. Got no issue with conspiracy theories when they are well thought through and evidence based. But one surely must allow for the potential for events not to fit the conspiracy model from time to time. Even big events with global consequences might not always have a hidden hand behind it. It seems obvoius to where I am now. But when I was in the thick of it, it didn't seem obvious at all. It actually seemed impossible.
  11. Not a bad idea. Not sure the mods will appreciate it though. I'm an atheist so not really into the Satan thing.
  12. You may but what you say isn't true. The whole point of a vaccine is to tell the cells in your body to produce antibodies. Your assertions are completely wrong. Where did you get this information from? If you get a vaccine, it triggers your immune system to produce antibodies, so of course that is a form of genetic modification. Our bodies are constantly going through genetic modifications. Please elaborate more on how the covid vaccine will make us no longer human.
  13. When I think about an EU army, a part of me thinks that there might be one at some point. It's not that mad of an idea, really. I'm not sure what it would mean in practice. But the alarmists always frame it as right around the corner, and on British streets next year. What do you think will be the position on Jan 1st? In or out? No deal etc. Or any 'no deal' will be a lie?
  14. Thanks. That's well laid out, and needs serious consideration as it is a possible outcome. I've actually changed my position somewhat, things won't be back to normal next year, like I implied in the original post - some good points have been raised on here. You're right to point out the economic damage that is being done. That will be long-lasting for some people. And things like international travel won't be back to normal, as different countries will be in different stages of handling the virus. My optimistic self though still believes we won't be in any domestic restrictions, this time next year. And hopefully by the summer. People will point out how worrying it is that I seem happy to wait for my basic freedoms to be handed back to me by the State. I understand, but that's the position we're in, I'm afraid. I know that won't sit well here, but I believe this pandemic is serious and a once in a lifetime event. Although, we were overdue an influenza pandemic before any of this, which is worrying. Definitely potential for the government to mess up the roll. There will be cock-ups - especially when you have to back after 28 days to get the second jab. May also be issues with the cold storage. Can see the headlines now - 2,000 people injected with out of date vaccine. The fallout of the economic collapse, if it comes, could be massive. Civil unrest, etc. All possible. But, not looking at it through a conspiracy lens, all these things could happen, but they may be natural reactions/consequences to a very complex situation. I.e. it hasn't been orchestrated. That's also possible. If the virus has been created on purpose, it doesn't seem a clever idea, given it is indiscriminate and seriously affects the elderly - it would be quite funny if it ended of killing some of the key elites. Q4 and digital currencies - this is a bit of a leap for me. It's a good one to test the theory though if it happens in the next 2 years or not.
  15. [Robot voice] Copy. Paste. Copy. Paste. Repeat. Tea or coffee. Tea or coffee. 4 teas please.
  16. Well, none of us put together the pieces ourselves, did we? They were fed to us in books, YouTube videos and message boards. I don't claim to have a theory to explain everything anymore, because I've discovered that not everything can be explained by a simple narrative. The world is complex, it is not run on a simple formula. The real world is so much more interesting than these grand narratives suggest. I believe the same for science's explanation of the universe, it's so much more vivid and detailed than the religious explanations. Our minds are conditioned to see patterns that are sometimes not there. You must know that there have been plenty of prophesies that came to nothing. This forum was alive with the theories around the Mayan Calendar, 2012 end of days stuff. But it came and went, and nothing. Yet, people have picked up other beliefs of impending 'end of days' stuff. They cycle repeats and repeats. Where is Nibiru, where are the Anunaki? What was the name of the guy who said there would be a false alien invasion, I think at the 2012 Olympics? Where is he now? I would like to ask him what happened there. He was a very engaging speaking and I liked his ancient knowledge. What happened to the Amero? Y2K? What happened to ID cards? That's so easily implemented, we're not that far from it at all - yet the government actually rolled it back. Decided NOT to do it. Where is the European army that should have been here a decade ago. Where is the next global war that was imminent 15 years ago. What happened to the hollow earth? The false reality being projected from the moon? There was a whole book on that, and now barely a peep. Where the hell does Donald Trump fit into all of this - the son of a billionaire, a narcissistic TV personality is now the champion of the working class and enemy of the elite! And when all these predictions about what will happen as a result of covid-19 end up coming to nothing significant - then how will you and others respond? Will you move onto the next theory and look over the fact that a safe vaccine and a government that doesn't seize control post pandemic literally proves your beliefs incorrect, or will you take a breathe, step back and reassess what, and more importantly, why you have found yourself believing in these things. The psychology of belief systems is fascinating to me. I would argue that it's even more interesting than the belief systems themselves. Check it out - [https://religiondispatches.org/qanons-predictions-havent-come-true-so-how-does-the-movement-survive-the-failure-of-prophecy/]
  17. In the fairness of balance, I need to point out some errors in your argument. 1. All mathematics are wrong. What do you mean? They have literally got their times table wrong. These are experts in their field. And if they got maths wrong, why haven't they been corrected? 2. Garbage in garbage out. This compounds the first error. Based on a false presupposition. 3. And you know HOW it really works, do you? Do you even know anyone who is involved in the actual work? How do you know how it works. Let me guess, you've listened to someone else tell you. Been there, done that. Much prefer thinking for myself and drawing my own conclusions from my own mind. I no longer have to fit everything into someone else's world view. 4. No one has ever isolated a virus. Okay, I need to know what you mean here. This reminds me of certain 'key points' of information that get picked up from another source and repeated time and time again, without spending a second to double check what they are saying. I've seen viruses under a microscope. There's pictures of them everywhere. They're been handled (in a sense of the word) and studied, even modified. Please explain what you mean. And check the replies of some of the other posters that seem very knowledgeable on vaccine safety. They haven't mentioned this nonsense of you can't isolate a virus. So why are you? 5. And you have the nerve to insult other people's intelligence without meeting them. When the vaccine comes and ends this pandemic. And we don't find ourselves in a police state, and we have our freedoms back. It's time to reassess some of these beliefs. Please stick to the real issues. Elitism in society, Panama papers, illegal wars, propaganda, Russian interence in democracy, the threat of China, rise of populism and authoritarian leaders, the erosion of truth, grefell, windrush scandal, the class system, the gig economy, unregulated capitalism, risk of communism, who killed Tupac. So many real issues.
  18. I had all of the pieces of the puzzle together 15 years ago. Decided to scramble them up again and look at the world in a new way. Some pieces are still relevant, albiet in a different position than they were before.
  19. The brave volunteers referred to here are the trial volunteers, right? Well, yes, they are brave because there is inherent risk going into a trail for a new vaccine. As I have mentioned, the vaccine was designed on existing models, so the risk was low. But they signed the consent form and agreed to go ahead. They are heroes and they have saved tens of thousands of lives. But, the risk doesn't get passed onto the general population, does it? As the data has been received and has been reviewed. Animals trials, now that's an interesting debate. Computer modelling has come a long way in the last 10 years to replace animals as much as possible in the future. Which I think we can agree on is a good thing. It is normally the usual step to use animals before humans, but there is an effort to reduce the animal testing to the bare minimum. So in the future, we may see less and less of it as the modelling systems improve.
  20. Thanks, I like the analogy! I will look into the aluminum link. You are probably right that the vaccine manufacturers do not look into this that make their job harder, either at all, or not as much as they should do. But they are not the only players in the game. The thing about scientific research is that they are forever reviewing and criticising each other's work. Independent labs or non-profit organisations would be very keen to investigate any dodgy goings on in their field. Unless you think that the entire network of research scientists are under the direct, or indirect control of Bill Gates. Yes, The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation provide a lot of money around the world for research. No question. But unless you know how the research grant process works, you're probably going to draw wrong conclusions, especially if they fit your super conspiracy theory worldview. It's more the organisations that dictate the work they do, rather than anyone directly controlling it. "All the vaccine corporations are interested in is whether or not their vaccine produces antibodies." Not fully true, is it? They are also concerned about the safety of their product as well, surely? They wouldn't sell many if it was known to be unsafe.
  21. "This is the charge: The manufacturers claim they are safer and/or more effective than they actually are". That's not an outrageous claim. And I would tend to lean in your favour on this. Where there is commercial profit, there is room for corruption. You and I both know, many on here go way beyond that in their beliefs and their detachment from basic science. The debate can be summed up as this, vaccines are dangerous vs vaccines are safe. The framing of the debate is wrong, and neither side aren't going to make much progress, are they? You can point to examples where vaccines have been dangerous and I could point to times when they are safe. I could accept your position that they are dangerous, but it still might apply that they are less dangerous than the virus they protect against. Risk is very important. If a vaccine has a 10% chance of killing me, those are terrible odds but if the virus it protects me against (if it doesn't kill me) has a 60% percent chance of killing me, I'm going to take the vaccine. These aren't real world examples, I know. The real world examples are more like there is a 0.00001% chance the vaccine will cause damage, and if a virus is 2% likely to kill - the vaccine comes out on top every time. You can obviously point to many examples of vaccine damage (these need scrutinising very carefully imo - statistically people are dropping dead for a variety of reasons all of the time, it can be very easy to fall into the 'well they got a vaccine yesterday and now they've dropped dead for no reason, ergo it's the vaccine' trap. Isn't the majority of the anti-vax movement arguing against a straw-man? 'Vaccines aren't 100% safe' one might say. Whoever said they were? They come with listed side effects as does every other medicine. When the MHRA authorise a vaccine, they are saying, 'we've looked at all the data and have come to the conclusion that the safety of the vaccine FAR OUTWEIGHS the negatives of the disease. There is a very small risk associated with taking the vaccine. Many people may suffer very mild side effects (24 hour window) a bit of swelling etc, very few people will suffer severe reactions. Those who are hyper sensitive to allergies or immunosuppressed should not take the vaccine without consulting a doctor'. So, we can go into mercury and MMR autism links. The damage done by Andrew Wakefield has been done but his association of MMR with autism has been fully debunked. But, even that doesn't win the debate, because you can point to serious damage that has actually been done by vaccines. I can only say that the science is continuously improving, mistakes have been learned from. Science is trying to improve the situation. The covid-19 vaccine is based on a very robust model for similar viruses. Vaccines aren't a magic solution to solve all our problems, but I believe it is the best we have at this moment to fight the serious threats of disease around the round. I'm not an expert so I misspoke on the adjuvants. I do work with experts though. Which is why I have defended scientists in my replies. Honestly, some of the nicest people you can meet (again, my mind here would have gone to Joseph Mengele in my conspiracy days as a way to completely reject what the person is saying. But, I now realise that you will always be able to find examples in the extreme opposite direction, and that doesn't often discredit the point being made). I find the scientists I know (I work with over 300 in a non-profit organisation) to be extremely humble, polite, sensitive, intelligent people. I guess you might argue that the scientific research system has been created to compartmentalise whole sections of the structure, and the scientists at the bottom are just doing their job. Don't buy it, although it is hard to argue against (by design). An easier point for me to make is, how many people would it take to pull of a vaccine conspiracy on the country? How is that possible? There are thousands of labs out there working on the covid vaccine in some way. Private labs, public sector labs. The argument of they 'just do as they are told, they are small pawns in a bigger game they understand', doesn;t hold up for scientists. They are the most inquisitive minds on the planet. They get off on facts, and numbers and finding the truth. Dare I say, not much different to many people on here. I just think we need recalibrating once in a while :) And I've not even brought up how anti-vax beliefs fit into the super conspiracy model - depopulation, mind control, genocide of the human race (or rather it all seems to be about the white race now which is a new development), slave beings, government surveillance, inter-dimensional beings, negative frequencies. These people are working backwards from those beliefs and swallowing up reasonable discussions, such as 'how safe are vaccines?' And I unfortunately think, from my own experience, some that start of on the more sensible topics, work there way further and further down, consuming more and more information, until they've reached a point where they can't even speak to their own families normally anymore because everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, has been corrupted in their worldview.
  22. Well that's the thing, I did think it was all true. I'm fully aware that any point I try to get across will not pass the defenses of someone who believes in an all encompassing, absolute, black and white (no grey areas anywhere!) global 'super conspiracy'. Only an individual can free their own mind of that.
  23. It was developed quickly because there was a global effort to put all available resources into developing a vaccine. Manufacturers did the clinical trials differently for this vaccine. Normally the 3 clinical trials occur one after the other. The next one does not start until the data is collected and reviewed from the first previous one. Often a vaccine will get through stage 1 and proceed no further because the data isn't what was anticipated. For the covid-19 vaccine, they staggered the trials, so they began the next trial before the previous trial had finished. So they overlapped which allowed them to massively reduce the time it normally takes. Data was collected and reviewed throughout as it normally is. It wasn't 'rushed'. The compressed time has no relationship to safety concerns as all safety checks and all data has been reviewed as it normally would.
  24. And when things inevitably return to normal after the vaccine is rolled out, how will you respond? If you fail to adjust your position, what does that mean for you? It's worth considering. You are not debating at typical 'sheeple' person. I've been in your position - I was obsessed with this board and the Illuminati agenda for years. I've taken in all the material, read all the book and watched all the videos. Now, I've pulled back as it seemed stupid to me to constantly fit world events that are obviously random into the 'super conspiracy' machine. It used to be that you look into a specific incident and make up your mind whether the official story was true or not, e.g. the JFK assassination. Now everything fits into (no matter how forced) the super conspiracy model. I started looking into the psychology of conspiracy theories more and thing made more sense. We have evolved to see patterns. The mind has the ability to take this trait and run with it - starts to find patterns everywhere and sometimes when no pattern exists. Step back and think about it. There are real agendas out there looking to harm humanity and they're getting away with it because many people are focusing on flat earth, 5g and whether a virus 'can be isolated'. (it can) I'll check out your link.
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