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Comedy Time

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  1. Wow. Yet another "new" poster who ignores content and makes pathetic off topic and inaccurate personal shite comments. Kindly address the quoted post.
  2. They knew EXACTLY what it would look like. Here is a picture of a hypergolic engine being tested at high altitude... Source - J4 test cell. http://www.nimr.org/systems/rockets/72-001.htm
  3. Apollo 17 before the launch, Harrison Schmitt throws his geology hammer. If anyone says that is a speshul effect, they are deluded. In 1972. Oh and the same continuous shot......it took off!
  4. An obvious fake to the ignorant of rockets? Or an obvious truth to rocket scientists and anybody who has spent five minutes researching it! Virtually invisible in atmosphere.... This is about 100 times more powerful, in atmosphere. Try not to confuse the explosive elevator rocketry and detachment with the actual hypergolic ignition!
  5. The vibration would be transmitted through the boots and suit. It wasn't loud enough to register on the localised microphone. You are out of your league.
  6. There are none including this. Sound does not travel in a vacuum so you will only get vibration. They are wearing fully insulated spacesuits and the comms system is sensitive to a short distance inside their helmet. I envisage no possibility of you acknowledging this with an honest response.
  7. If you say so. Off topic one liners seem your speciality. You following me around again?
  8. Who were you before Reet Hard? You are turning this discussion into a personal exchange....and deliberately ignoring posts. I asked you to Show where I contradicted myself "more than anyone you know" ....and tell me how you "know this"!! Now we need: A team to dispose of the planes and the bodies A team to burn and mangle the bodies to sprinkle DNA all over the area, or a team to fake the analyses. We still need a team to place tiny body parts everywhere. A team to drive around dropping bits of plane around the area, including a massive plane engine in full view of spectators! A team to do this at the Pentagon with cameras on helicopters and emergency services arriving any time soon. A team to control the military aircraft. Paper trails to be destroyed accounting for the aircraft. ALL paper trails paying any personnel to be deleted and financial reimbursements hidden. You people have about a dozen or more weirdo variants of this crazy unfeasible operation. Why don't YOU argue with the no planers! I argue about specific things relating to it. I don't support the official theory, I just don't support the explanations for alternatives. So far
  9. @Enforcement I do get rather sick of every single person I "debate" with ignoring significant posts completely!
  10. Oh dear yet another one who ignores posts. You are a liar. And tell me, since you "just got here" how you would know this. Show me where I contradict myself. I believe mostly the official story but consider that they let it happen to gain traction in the Middle East - I don't think they anticipated the extent of the attack.
  11. You are a liar. And tell me, since you "just got here" how you would know this. I am, and have always been a "they let it happen" believer.
  12. You have been asked numerous times to give your best 2 or 3 things from that film, kindly do so, so I can give MY answer to them.
  13. One major factor not mentioned or understood is that the astronauts wore helmets and suits for launch. The internal communicators were insulated completely.
  14. Unbelievable spam! Chuck enough crap at the wall and some of it sticks huh? There is nothing in any section of that video that is new or not debunked to death. Highlight any 2 or 3 things and I'll directly address them. The missions brought back 842lbs of lunar samples that are not meteorites or Earth rocks. Debunking "American Moon" American Moon is a 2017 documentary by Massimo Mazzucco providing "evidence" that the Apollo moon landings were just a big silly old hoax. The idea is that because their moon program was running a bit behind schedule all the engineers, scientists, astronauts and managers working on Apollo suddenly stopped caring about space exploration and went into showbiz. A kind Reddit user has transcribed some of the questions Mazzucco asks. Responses are given below. The warnings Van Allen gave in the articles highlighted in American Moon were based on an initial estimate of radiation intensity which was out by a factor of a thousand. After writing the articles Van Allen co-authored a paper in 1962 where he admitted “our 1959 assumptions... are seen to be invalid”. Rather than 10¹¹ electrons per cm²/sec, there were only 10⁸. The radiation was much less dangerous than Van Allen had thought. In fact, as NASA knew perfectly well, "The shielding provided by the Apollo space capsule walls was more than enough to shield the astronauts from all but the most energetic, and rare, particles". NASA knew this because it had detailed knowledge of the radiation belts from the many satellites it had sent up prior to the manned Apollo missions. This page shows some of the satellites, with their launch dates. For example, Explorer 3 provided "Van Allen belt data". Explorer 6 carried out "Magnetosphere studies--radiation belt meteorology". Explorer 7 "Studied energetic particles". Explorer 10 "Studied interplanetary magnetic field near Earth; particle radiations". Explorer 12 carried out "Magnetospheric studies: how the radiation belts around the Earth receive, trap, and lose their charged particles". Explorer 15 carried out a "Study of enhanced radiation belt". Explorer 18 "Studied charged particles and magnetic fields in cislunar space". Explorer 21 "Studied magnetic fields and their interactions with solar plasma, solar wind, cosmic rays, intensities and distribution of space radiation." Explorer 26 "Studied how high-energy particles are injected, trapped, and lost in the Van Allen Belt". The OGO satellites also studied the "magnetosphere, and the space between the Earth and Moon". And Pioneer 4 "sent back excellent data about the Van Allen Belts". The NASA engineer, Kelly Smith, who says the Van Allen belts are dangerous in the clip starting at 1:09:44 actually explains the reason. He says "radiation like this could harm the guidance systems, onboard computers or other electronics on Orion". Smith does not say that the radiation is a danger to humans. NASA scientist David Sibeck gives more detail here, stating that "Our current technology is ever more susceptible to these accelerated particles because even a single hit from a particle can upset our ever smaller instruments and electronics." It is the threat to sensitive electronics, not to people, which is the problem. Because if there are people on board a spacecraft whose guidance systems or computers or other electronics are damaged by radiation, those people could be in trouble. I might also point out that at 1:11:17 the narrator says the Van Allen belts are now considered "very dangerous", showing a picture of Kelly Smith, when Smith only said the belts were "dangerous". The film-makers added the word "very". Also, in the clip of astronaut Terry Virts shown at 1:11:22 where Virts says that astronauts can't currently go beyond Earth orbit, he isn't talking about the radiation belts, he specifically talks about NASA needing to build larger rockets to go further, so I'm not sure what that clip is supposed to prove except that NASA hasn't been building large rockets recently... Perhaps because the astronaut, Alan Bean, was in his seventies when he was interviewed, and had been retired for over 20 years. People in their seventies do occasionally forget things. The mission was in 1969 and Bean was interviewed around 2004. He probably didn't spend much time thinking about the belts, since they'd proven not to be a problem. This question is at 1:17:26. Images are shown of foil sheets attached to the lunar module (LEM) with tape, and buckled panels. The narrator ridicules the makeshift appearance of the LEM. He's forgetting that space is a vacuum. There's no wind to blow off the foil so using tape is fine. Also he implies the tape is holding the LEM together. It isn't, it's just holding the foil blankets on. The blankets provided additional insulation to the LEM without being as heavy as standard heat shields and also provided a reflective covering to reflect away sunlight. The narrator notes that some hoax debunkers have stated that the adhesive tape was used to keep weight down. He rejects this explanation, pointing out that rivets were used in other places on the LEM, and if weight was so important, why wasn't tape used everywhere? The answer is that tape was OK for the lightweight foil blankets attached to the exterior of the LEM, whereas the LEM itself obviously required rivets. As for the buckled panels, they were not buckled when the LEM was built (which the narrator implies). They were buckled because they were damaged when it lifted off from the moon. An analysis of how the damage happened is found in section 14.2.2 of the mission report. The narrator says "the lunar module cost over $2 billion dollars at the time" ($26 billion in 2016 money), implying this was the value of a single module, but this was actually the cost for all fifteen modules, including development costs. I'd argue that the same thing did happen under the engine of the LEM, but the rock is the same color as the dust so it's difficult to see in most of the pictures. However, in this picture (which is included in the film so the narrator can ask about what appear to be "pebbles" in it) you can clearly see that the bare rock is exposed. I think these "pebbles" must be stuck in the ground. If you look at the bottom right of the picture you can see similar lumps that definitely look like they're part of the ground. Bear in mind that this is not actually solid rock like you'd find on Earth, it's "regolith", a kind of heavily compacted debris caused by meteorite bombardment, so there's no reason to expect a smooth surface. It looks like most of the dust has been removed from under the engine, it's just hard to tell because the underlying rock is exactly the same color as the dust. You can see that the actual dust has accumulated further away from the engine, to the bottom right of the photo. The dust Irwin was referring to could have just been pushed there by the engine during landing. Maybe because the engine cut off prior to landing, while the foot pads were still far enough above the surface not to get dust in them? Bear in mind that there is no atmosphere on the moon so you would not get billowing clouds of dust like you'd get on Earth. In the vacuum of the moon's surface the dust probably just moved out from immediately under the rocket and then settled quickly. The engine didn't form a "crater" because the dust was only an inch or two deep. But it definitely did push the dust away. It's just hard to see. There is no visible flame when the LEM lifts off on the moon because the fuels it used don't produce a visible flame in a vacuum. The narrator disputes this explanation by pointing out that the LEM engine was "hypergolic" and saying that "hypergolic fuels produce a clearly visible flame", even in a vacuum. Clips of other hypergolic rockets, with visible flames, are shown. The narrator says "This is a Draco engine, which uses hypergolic fuel", and "The space shuttle also uses hypergolic fuel". The way the narrator speaks, you would naturally assume that all the rockets shown use the same fuel--hypergolic fuel. But they don’t, because “hypergolic” isn’t a single fuel but a class of fuels, and there is no reason why one hypergolic rocket has to use the same fuel as another. As it turns out, the actual fuel used by the LEM ascent engine is different to the fuels used by the other rockets shown. To be specific, the ascent engine used a 50:50 mix of hydrazine and unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (UDMH) with an N₂0₄ oxidizer. The Draco engine and the space shuttle orientation rockets both use monomethylhydrazine with N₂0₄, while the Soyuz orientation rockets use UDMH (without added hydrazine) with N₂0₄. To make a fair comparison with the ascent engine we should look at a rocket using the exact same fuel, not just a similar kind of fuel. It turns out that the Delta II second stage rocket uses the same fuel as the LEM ascent engine. And if we look at videos of these rockets firing in the vacuum of space, we see that their exhaust plumes are completely invisible. The only way you can tell they are firing is the sudden increase in the speed with which the first stage recedes. The narrator also asks why the LEM's ascent engine produced a visible plume when it was tested on Earth. The reason is actually quite complicated, though it relies on the fact that when fired in an atmosphere, a supersonic rocket exhaust forms a standing shockwave due to pressure differentials with the surrounding air. This causes "shock diamonds", areas of increased heat which can ignite unburned fuel or exhaust products, or debris from the ablative layer of the rocket nozzle. In a vacuum this additional combustion would not happen. Chemiluminescent reactions of radical combustion products in the exhaust can also produce visible light, as is apparently the case with exhaust from the space shuttle's main engine. Again, these reactions don't happen in a vacuum in the absence of shock diamonds. So it is the Earth's atmosphere which made the ascent engine's plume visible in the test (and you can clearly see the "shock diamonds" in the footage). This video shows that outside the area of the shock diamonds, the exhaust plume from a rocket using the same fuel as the ascent engine is invisible even on Earth. It's fascinating to see this rocket rising on an almost invisible plume. (More footage here). If any additional evidence were needed that the lunar module did take off using a rocket, this sequence of stills from the Apollo 17 liftoff, courtesy of a poster on Quora, highlights that there was a visible flame where the rocket exhaust hit the descent stage. The burning of the materials of the descent stage no doubt caused the visible flame. The only way for sound to be transmitted into the cabin, given the vacuum outside, would be by making the interior of the cabin vibrate. The ascent engine did not contain fuel pumps, as it was pressure-fed, so there would not have been any vibrations from pump motors. Audible vibration could only have come from fluctuations in the amount of thrust from the engine. Therefore the absence of sound simply implies that the thrust was constant and did not cause vibrations inside the LEM. This rocket has 500lbs more thrust than the lunar ascent engine, but does not visibly vibrate during operation, so it's reasonable to assume the LEM ascent engine would also have not vibrated. Also, Tom Jones, a shuttle astronaut, says in this article that after booster separation during a shuttle launch he felt "almost no vibration", even though the shuttle's three main engines were still firing and delivering over a million pounds of thrust, "pushing us upward with a comfortable 1G acceleration". As long as the thrust is constant, there needn't be any significant vibration when a rocket fires. Absence of vibration would have meant absence of sound in the LEM. In fact, the noise during the ascent was described by Apollo 15 astronaut David Scott as being "like the wind was blowing through a window." Scott also said "This was very quiet. Very quiet. You heard a swishing sound". Source (entry at 171:38:05). The reason the music can be heard clearly is that astronaut Al Worden played it into his microphone specifically so that it would be heard in mission control. He said "I thought I was playing it only for Houston." Source (Entry at 171:37:25). The reason the engine was not also heard is that, as mentioned in the answer to question 11, it did not make a loud noise in the cabin. Arguably, landing on the moon is a lot more delicate than lifting off, because during landing it might be necessary for the LEM pilot to take manual control to avoid an unsuitable landing site, as Neil Armstrong was forced to during Apollo 11. During liftoff it was less likely that the astronauts would have to intervene and take manual control. The main danger related to liftoff was that the ascent engine would not fire, stranding the astronauts on the moon. After the ascent engine fired the astronauts would have probably felt relief and elation that the moon landing itself had been a success and that they were on their way home, hence the playing of the music. Also, it wasn't the intention of Al Worden, who played the tape, that the music would be heard by the other two astronauts. He intended the music only to be heard in mission control in Houston. He said "I thought I was playing it only for Houston. But then I found out that someone had turned on the switch that relayed my voice to the Lunar Module." Source (Entry at 171:37:25). It had also been the intention that the music should not be played immediately after liftoff, but a minute later. Source (Entry at 171:37:25). The narrator says this at 1:31:39, referring to the claim made in 1997 by James M. Collier that NASA contractor Grumman Corporation had thrown away all of its paperwork relating to the Apollo missions. But Grumman did not throw away all of its paperwork. You can still find 130 boxes of their Apollo-related technical documents, dating from 1961-1972, at the National Archives in Forth Worth, Texas. The documents include "technical and management proposals, technical reports, end item specifications and specification amendments, functional requirements, mission planning studies, failure analysis reports, equipment status lists" and more. This question is asked at 1:35:21. The filmmakers imply that the non-availability of the tapes is somehow part of the fake moon-landing conspiracy. But if the landings really were faked, it seems incredibly unlikely that NASA would arrange a news conference to announce that it had lost some of the data that could prove they happened. It’s far more likely it would simply not mention the tapes, or if asked about them would say they were too fragile to be examined. The reason the tapes were reused is that in the early 1980s NASA was unable to get hold of new high-quality tapes. The original tapes had been manufactured using whale oil, which was now banned, and new tapes made with synthetic oil were not as durable. By that time NASA’s satellite imaging surveys were generating so much data that it was forced to reuse 200,000 old tapes. The Apollo tapes were among those reused. The reason the Apollo tapes were not preserved is that there was nothing that could be done with the data on them which hadn’t already been done. Everything useful had been extracted from the tapes and further analysis of the data they contained would have been pointless. The television pictures on the tapes had to be converted before being viewable on standard television equipment and this conversion had already taken place and the results were safely stored. The telemetry recorded on the tapes had already been reviewed and anything notable or unexpected had been written up in detail in the reports which NASA produced after each mission. Large sections of telemetry data were even included in the reports. The only reason anyone realised the tapes had been wiped is that some ex-NASA employees wanted to see if they could re-convert the video at a higher quality than had been achieved in the 1960s. There was no clamour from researchers for access to the telemetry on the tapes. People interested in Apollo had all the data they could wish for in the mission reports, flight evaluation reports and other technical material released by NASA. There are over 7,000 contemporary technical reports and documents relating to Apollo directly available on NASA’s website. On the Spacecraft Films Apollo 15 DVDs there are several audio-only sections, where mission audio is accompanied by stills rather than by video images. It's clear that the DVD producers decided to trim some of the gaps in these sections, to make them shorter overall. So while the video portions of the DVDs are unedited, the audio-only sections are not unedited. As proof that the audio delays are shorter in the Spacecraft Films version than the original version, have a look at this NASA transcript, which archive.org saved in June 1997 (five years before the Spacecraft Films Apollo 15 DVD set was released). The transcript includes timings for everything said, which correspond with the audio mp3s which were later uploaded, but not with the timings on the DVDs. For example, the time between Houston starting to say "Roger, Jim. Copy. And are you progressing towards Dune Crater now?" and James Irwin replying is seven seconds, according to the timings on the transcript from 1997. But in the audio on the Spacecraft Films DVD, released in 2002, the time is only 4½ seconds. Since the transcript predates the DVDs, it must be the DVDs which introduced the alteration. Firstly, not all transmitting vehicles have stabilizing legs. (For those using old.reddit.com, please note each word there is a different link). In fact most of the pictures returned by a Google image search for "satellite truck" show vehicles without legs. Secondly, it's true the signal from the moon had further to travel than a signal from Earth to a satellite, but the Apollo signal was also being picked up by a larger dish than would be found on a satellite. The dish at Honeysuckle Creek, the prime station for Apollo 15, was 26 metres across. By comparison, the largest communications satellite, the Terrestar 1, only has an 18 metre dish, while NASA's TDRS communications satellites only have 4.57 metre dishes. If NASA considered stabilizing legs for the Rover, they probably decided they weren't necessary. The oscillations only appear to be violent because the camera had a 6x optical zoom. All of the clips with apparently large oscillations were taken while the camera was zoomed in, magnifying the movement. Also, the camera could be operated remotely and it appears that in some of the clips, the camera has been panned up or down during the oscillation. This movement would not have affected the antenna. If we look at the clips when the camera was zoomed out, the oscillations don't look that large. We can determine the actual degree of movement using some trigonometry and some facts about the camera. The TV camera on the Rover had a 16mm sensor, giving a picture height of 7.49mm. The lens had a focal length of 12.5mm - 75mm. It’s not possible for us to know the exact focal length of the camera during each bounce, so let’s look at a bounce where the camera had a wide angle, and assume that at that point it was fully zoomed out and that the focal length was 12.5mm. Note that if the camera was not fully zoomed out at the point we choose, our calculations would give us an angle larger than the actual angle of the bounce, so by assuming 12.5mm we guarantee that, while the bounce could have been smaller than our result, it could not have been larger. Since we are trying to prove that the bounce was not large enough to cause signal loss, assuming the camera was fully zoomed out cannot work in our favour, it can only work against us. This image shows the largest bounce seen when the camera is zoomed out as far as it gets during the sequence. The bounce is about 10% of the image height, which would make it .75mm high on the camera's sensor. This means the camera angle changed by 3.4° during this bounce. We now have to determine how much signal loss would result from moving the high-gain antenna 3.4° from its optimal direction. The Rover had an 8 watt (39dBm) TV transmitter. The high-gain antenna provided a gain of 20.5db over a 10° cone, meaning if the antenna was misaligned by 5°, it would still provide gain of 20.5db. The receiving station at Honeysuckle Creek had a downlink gain of 53db and could receive S-Band signals (including TV pictures) as weak as -150db. Using the method outlined here, the strength of the signal received on Earth when the Rover's antenna was misaligned by 5° can be calculated as -98.7db using the following sum: +39dbm transmitter power +20.5db antenna gain -211.2db path loss +53db receiver gain. Seeing as this is much stronger than the -150db signal Honeysuckle Creek could receive, it's reasonable to conclude that the video picture would have survived intact at this signal strength. And seeing as the large bounce we calculated above resulted in a smaller misalignment than in this example, there is no mystery as to why the TV picture didn't break up during the bounce. The solar wind does not dissipate all electrostatic charges. The film-makers have either misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented the research in the document they refer to. The document, titled The Electrostatic Environments of the Moon and Mars appears to be a slide presentation dating from 2016, based on a paper of the same name from 2011. The slide highlighted in the documentary is about triboelectric charging, which is electrostatic buildup caused by rubbing different materials together. The quote used in the documentary, that "the charge dissipates almost instantly in all cases", is specifically referring to a triboelectric charge, such as would build up through contact between the wheels of a lunar rover and the lunar regolith. The phrase does not refer to all electrostatic charges on the moon. This is clear from slide three of the presentation, which states that the daylight side of the moon would be charged to around 5 to 10 volts by the solar wind, and that the night side would be charged to around -50 to -200 volts. In fact, the 2011 paper on which the slide presentation is based states in its abstract that "Dust covering the surface of the moon is expected to be electrostatically charged due to the solar wind, cosmic rays, and the solar radiation itself through the photoelectric effect. Electrostatically charged dust has a large tendency to adhere to surfaces." As to why the dust sticks to "all kinds of materials", this is how electrostatically charged dust behaves. Probably a combination of the fact that the lunar dust is electrostatically charged, making it adhesive, and that the grains are sharp and irregularly shaped, increasing its adhesiveness. According to NASA scientists David McKay, "It's like Velcro." Because it's adhesive (see last answer). They didn't replicate the electrostatic conditions on the moon's surface, which increase the stickiness of the dust there. The first flash of light appears to be a lens flare. The narrator says it can't be a lens flare because it doesn't appear simultaneously with the light glinting on the astronaut's aerial. But some lens flares only appear when the light which causes them reaches a certain level of brightness. This can be seen in this video of the sun rising, where some lens flares are visible when the sun first appears, and others only appear when it becomes brighter. The same effect is visible in video clip of the astronaut on the moon. The lens flare above his aerial appears as the reflection from his aerial reaches a certain brightness, and disappears when as it becomes dimmer. In fact, this happens twice, in a perfectly synchronized manner highly suggestive of a lens flare. The second flash of light could easily be a video artifact. The narrator claims it can't be an artifact, because the video clip comes from a Spacecraft Films DVD. It doesn't occur to him that the artifact could have occurred before the clip was put onto the DVD. For example, it could have been caused by the sensor in the camera used to film the clip, or it could have been introduced when the picture was beamed back to Earth and converted to NTSC format. In fact, by claiming that the flash could not be a video artifact, the film-makers are really insulting the intelligence of their viewers, because a second before the flash in question, we see several clearly visible video artifacts, circled in red in this picture. It's not really convincing to claim that video with defects like that could not have other defects. All of the clips shown of the astronauts apparently defying gravity are the result of the fact that on the moon there is less gravity than on Earth. The narrator himself has mentioned the fact that the moon's gravity is one sixth of the Earth, but takes no account of this fact when expressing his great perplexity at the astronaut's unnatural movements. The movements only seem unnatural if you imagine them taking place in full gravity. If you take account of the fact that they're on the moon, there is no mystery. But for the sake of completeness, yes, I can explain the movements. He clearly lifts himself using his legs and his left hand, which is holding the pole embedded in the ground. He lifts himself with his left arm, which is holding the implement embedded in the ground. It's possible for him to do this because he's on the moon where gravity is lower than on Earth. He then transfers his weight onto his right leg and turns around, maintaining balance by placing first his left and then his right hand on the embedded implement. He gets up using his legs and both of his hands, which are holding implements embedded in the ground which are clearly sturdy enough to support the weight he puts on them. Once standing, he is obviously not correctly balanced and has to make at least one backwards jump to correct this. Because he overbalances more slowly than he would under normal gravity, it looks like he is floating, but this is just an illusion caused by our expectation that he should fall more quickly. The astronaut makes the backwards jump at exactly the time when it's necessary to stop himself from falling over. The clip is cut off before we can see whether he had to make any additional backwards jumps or steps. He clearly lifts himself up using his left arm, which is being held by the right arm of the astronaut helping him. The astronaut is clearly about to overbalance to his right and is forced to jump rightwards, primarily using his right leg, which had been slightly bent, to regain his balance. It's obvious that he is momentarily unable to get up due to the weight of his backpack. He makes three visible attempts to lift himself by straightening his legs, moving up slightly on the first two attempts, and manages to stand on the third attempt. He's clearly not suspended in mid-air. Both of his hands and both of his feet make contact with the ground. How is this "suspended in midair"? He's obviously climbing on the LEM. In the low gravity he's able to climb using only his hands. He seems to be lifting himself on his toes, but his feet are hidden by a rock. I'm not even sure what mystery is supposed to be here, unless the film-makers just didn't realise that the astronaut's feet were hidden by a rock and thought that they were visible. Again the film-makers seem to have forgotten that the moon is a low-gravity environment. It's the low gravity which causes the particles to take longer than expected to fall. This question refers to the moment captured on video during the Apollo 15 moon landing when the astronaut David Scott bounced past a flag and the flag started to move. It has been suggested that Scott touched the flag with his elbow (see the entry at 148:57:15). However, this 3d recreation indicates that he was too far from the flag to touch it. It is possible, however, that the movement was caused by a static charge that Scott was carrying on the surface of his suit. According to this slideshow by a NASA scientist (slides 7 and 8), static charges dissipate on the moon in milliseconds, which would make it hard to see how Scott could have been carrying a charge when he passed the flag. The reason for the fast dissipation is the solar wind, which bombards the moon with electrons and protons and creates a "plasma sheath" of electrons around the moon. These ambient electrons act as a ground to any positive charge and dissipate it. Interestingly, though, a negative charge takes slightly longer to dissipate, because it is dissipated by the ions in the solar wind, which are less numerous than the electrons in the moon's plasma sheath. I found an interesting paper, "Concerning the dissipation of electrically charged objects in the shadowed lunar polar regions", which gives a formula for the amount of time it takes for a static charge to dissipate on the moon. As an example they provide calculations for a position 85 degrees from the subsolar point (the point directly under the sun). But I think the maths actually works anywhere on the dayside surface, for negative charges at least, since the number of incoming ions from the solar wind is the same everywhere on the dayside, at 5 per cubic centimetre. The most interesting fact is that the time taken for the charge to dissipate is inversely proportional to the area that the charge covers. This is because the larger the area, the more ions will come into contact with the charged surface, and the quicker the charge will be dissipated. So if the charge is concentrated in a small area, it takes longer to dissipate. The example given in the paper is of an astronaut's spacesuit, with an area of 10 square metres. They say a negative charge would dissipate from a spacesuit in 0.003 seconds. But for an astronaut's boot, which is only 1m², the charge would take ten times longer (0.03 seconds) to dissipate. Using the formula given I calculated that a negative charge that covered only 80cm² would take 3.5 seconds to dissipate, which would have given Scott time to receive the charge off-camera and to move past the flag while still charged, making the flag move. Using the Quickfield electric field simulation software I set up a 3D scene where an astronaut is one metre from a flag, and set an 80cm² area on the astronaut's arm to be charged to -10,000 volts. The result showed that the presence of the charge on the astronaut produced a force of 0.000002 Newtons on a selected 9.3cm² area in the corner of the flag. Using the procedure outlined here I tried to calculate the effect this force would have on the flag. Assume that the force was applied for 1 second, which is about the amount of time it took the astronaut to pass. 0.000002 Newtons for one second is an impulse of 0.000002 Newton-seconds. Since impulse/mass = final velocity - initial velocity, and since the initial velocity is zero, it's just necessary to divide this impulse by the mass of the small flag section to find the velocity in meters per second that the flag section would end up with. This flag is the same size as the one used on the moon (3' by 5') and according to the linked web page it weighs .55 lbs, which is 249 grams. 9.3cm² is 0.00067 times smaller than the full flag, so reduce the weight by the same factor to find the weight of the piece of flag we are looking at. This works out as 0.167 grams, or 0.000167 kilograms. 0.000002Ns / 0.000167kg = 0.01 metres per second, or 1cm per second. So according to this, the 9.3cm² area of flag would have been moving at 1cm per second after the astronaut passed. This is the speed the flag piece would be moving if the electrostatic force was applied in the opposite direction to the Moon's gravity. It's possible the piece would move faster in a direction perpendicular to the direction of gravity. If the astronaut had a static charge on his arm, it would not stay constant during the one second it took him to pass the flag. We can suppose that the charge was higher when the astronaut initially received it, and decreased as he passed the flag, but was still high enough to produce the movement observed in the flag. There is also the complicating factor that the piece of flag we are doing calculations for was not floating freely, but was attached to the surrounding flag material, which would have created drag. However, the surrounding material would also have had a force acting on it from the static charge, pushing it in a similar direction to the piece of flag we are looking at, reducing the drag. These calculations prove that it's possible for a static charge to have caused the flag to move, despite the solar wind and its tendency to dissipate static charges. The astronauts' suits were coated with Teflon, which is notable for being very electronegative, which means it has a high tendency to acquire electrons from other materials, creating a negative static charge. The astronaut must have touched something offscreen to cause this--perhaps a piece of metal equipment. The narrator says the because the flag in the video starts moving "before the astronaut passes by" that it can't be due to static. This is wrong, a repulsive static charge would cause the flag to move in advance of the astronaut. The narrator also says "the only plausible explanation for the waving of the flag seems to be a displacement of air caused by the astronaut walking by." This explanation is not actually plausible, because the flag starts moving before Scott reaches it. As this video shows, when an object moves through air it causes very little disturbance to the air ahead of it. Almost all disturbance is caused in the wake of a moving object, meaning if Scott had caused the flag to move by air pressure, it would not have started moving before he reached it. Only a repulsive static charge would have caused this. On this occasion the astronauts are moving around quite close to the flag. It's possible that their weight on the ground nearby could have jolted the flagpole and caused the flag to move. They also pass under the flag, meaning exhaust gas from their space suits could have caused the flag to move. The space suits were fitted with "porous plate sublimators", which expelled steam into the vacuum to remove excess heat. The gas leakage rate of the space suits was 200 cubic centimetres per minute. As shown on page 15 of this document, the sublimator was at the top of the astronaut's backpack, meaning gas could have been expelled upwards and moved the flag as the astronauts passed beneath it.
  15. If you say so. Now we need: A team to dispose of the planes and the bodies A team to burn and mangle the bodies to sprinkle DNA all over the area, or a team to fake the analyses. We still need a team to place tiny body parts everywhere. A team to drive around dropping bits of plane around the area, including a massive plane engine in full view of spectators! A team to do this at the Pentagon with cameras on helicopters and emergency services arriving any time soon. A team to control the military aircraft. Paper trails to be destroyed accounting for the aircraft. ALL paper trails paying any personnel to be deleted and financial reimbursements hidden. It's confirmation bias and it most certainly works both ways. Cognitive dissonance is really not what you think it is! You people have about a dozen or more weirdo variants of this crazy unfeasible operation. Why don't YOU argue with the no planers! I argue about specific things relating to it. I don't support the official theory, I just don't support the explanations for alternatives. So far.
  16. Ooooooh. People do that on youtube in simulators. But you were talking about New York!
  17. You cannot have a middle ground!! There. Addressed. You either have equipment delivered that works. Or pay people to pretend. Your solution is to do both!!!! All the companies WERE subcontracted to do the work, they were paid accordingly. Are you suggesting they didn't and faked employment and payments? Your pitiful claim here makes no sense at all and you are deliberately ignoring highly significant responses. Ignored by you, that is the stuff that doesn't involve the thousand odd engineers! Thousands of images to faaaake. Fifty hours of often UNFAKEABLE surface video to faaaake. 842lbs of UNFAKEABLE lunar samples to faaaake. Thousands of hours of dialog to faaaake. Tracking stations to be faaaked. Reflectors to be placed in 3 locations....teams to do this....that is massive numbers of people. ALSEP experiments with gigabytes of data to be faaaake.
  18. Talking to a brick wall. AGAIN... You are basically suggesting that to keep all the engineers out of the loop, they built equipment fit for purpose, capable of flying them to the Moon.....THEN they employed a bunch of people who MUST have known what the hell was going on to create faaaaaake versions? Avoided... Thousands of images to faaaake. Fifty hours of often UNFAKEABLE surface video to faaaake. 842lbs of UNFAKEABLE lunar samples to faaaake. Thousands of hours of dialog to faaaake. Tracking stations to be faaaked. Reflectors to be placed in 3 locations....teams to do this....that is massive numbers of people. ALSEP experiments with gigabytes of data to be faaaake.
  19. It "identifies" it as a straw man BECAUSE it apparently doesn't have the middle ground option, but then demonstrates that there can BE no middle ground for valid reasons given! This exchange is painful and you are totally ignoring most of my post! There are two choices. Make the stuff to go to the Moon or fake it all. Ok, so they MUST have built stuff capable of going to the Moon!! Dude, if that is your ridiculous attempt to point out that low numbers were used, your "fatal flaw" is going to be comedy time. Thousands of images to faaaake. Fifty hours of often UNFAKEABLE surface video to faaaake. 842lbs of UNFAKEABLE lunar samples to faaaake. Thousands of hours of dialog to faaaake. Tracking stations to be faaaked. Reflectors to be placed in 3 locations....teams to do this....that is massive numbers of people. ALSEP experiments with gigabytes of data to be faaaake. Since I have no idea what level of nonsensical belief you have, just that for starters involves a fair few people. I could make that list go on for pages.
  20. Nope. How about this NOT DELETED easily found one ....WITH the no planer comparison? The second video shows what appears to be a flat approach because it is looking from a direction that has the plane coming towards the camera. The plane is diving but appears level.
  21. Haha. Welcome back again. No, they used passenger planes. No, they were passenger planes. They had a good go at it. The fires weakened the supports and from the video footage both buildings gave way at the exact point of impact. Fancy that huh? They didn't need to "fly" them. They needed to point them at a big target and crash them. New York is amazingly crowded. Luckily they didn't fly through it, they dived into it and were always above the tallest buildings.
  22. I don't think you quite get what a straw man is do you! Setting out all viable scenarios is addressing all variations of an argument. And your dismissal of this is ridiculous - you've not thought this one through have you The whole shebang of people needing to create fake goods WERE employed by NASA. For you to claim they should have used their "own" fake shit does two things. 1/ It doesn't negate that the vast army of contractors WERE actually employed by NASA and would have to know if their product was fake!! 2/ Now we would need a second team to create the fake goods - the problem in the first place. This is some seriously badly thought out nonsense. The whole point of NOT involving the correct people means you are now involving significant people who don't know what they are doing. But... 1/ NASA did employ those contractors and they DID supply equipment fit for purpose. 2/ Employing extra people to do unspecified things is a variation on the NEED-TO-KNOW. Shakes head in bafflement. You are basically suggesting that to keep all the engineers out of the loop, they built equipment fit for purpose, capable of flying them to the Moon.....THEN they employed a bunch of people who MUST have known what the hell was going on to create faaaaaake versions? That is so totally absurd it beggars belief. Can you even honestly say you believe that ridiculous post you just made?
  23. A free pass dude? I want you to actually respond to the debunks to your bloody video, not fart around with some side issue that you are simplifying to a ludicrous degree! I'll elaborate in the other post.
  24. Well, same answer. He stalked him the whole day and he was out with his stepdaughter! If some arsehole poked me lured me to a hotel on false premises, followed me around the whole day and then poked me with a bible in front of a relative. I wouldn't be happy. If the imbecile then called me liar, cheat and a coward - I'd knock his teeth out. Sibrel got away lightly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_Sibrel#Aldrin_incident SO WHAT anyway?
  25. Because Bart Sibrel is a tosser who stalked him for months. "Knowing you Mr Sibrel that's probably a fake Bible" He isn't violent or aggressive ... you are lying. Welcome back to the forum btw.
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