Certified Green of Heart

Started on a Wiki page about Dark Crystal (found in DIF "random thread") and not too long to wait and look around until I end up on this page on quite a different subject..... MY PRE-AMBLE featuring some of my own thoughts which try to balance this whole Observer Arguement (as best I know it to comprehend currently) which is always harder when you try to put into damn words anyway, so bear with me here.... So what we have here is:- "Biocentrism" (a novel for some part, until proven anything in it to the contrary, which I am sure the authors also are aware of, link below as per the book asking these types of questions in a story style I think), so anyway Biocentrism~ the concept or idea which portends the universe only comes into existence when there is an observer present (I guess therefore meriting OR otherwise substantiating, the existence of another person or thing)..... although for me, about this concept naturally has to be approached with some caution.... Take me for example, I have progressively thought well hang on, this maybe true in some cases and to some extent, but I am not sure it can claim "no existence" of anything for either being or not being or "capable of being dismissed out of sight entirely?" verses "regarded as being palpable to the mind?" as in real generally (sts) unless APPARENTLY?? following the law of the Observer as it would appear, therefore the idea that a thing does not roundedly exist without first being subject to the observer or observers as if it were an approval system, or based on somebody's voyeuristic say so?? ~ occasionally chipping in to say== "hey relax I know you exist, I just happen to be a spectator in this world, don't mind me??"... LOL.... Atm, I will only go so far as to say (*without having read the novel I only found today on Wiki*) when anything interacts in the universe, be it creature or substance of bio-universal-creativity in general, well then obviously the interaction of so many elements and chances for creation and creativity to become in a super-convening-&-super-charged atmosphere almost inevitably (like any vitals for life) would promote super inventive state of flow, and so would be *and surely IS* what makes reality either more exciting or interesting from that general perspective, at least when we don't mind being at the centre of a hive of activity and life overflowing, by which when you have so many participants/ peoples and other elements, clearly things will get busy and be witnessed by lots of witnesses creating A SORT OF MULTI REALITY in among anyone witness to it and present by what's happening around them in the NOW (the main & most common way to believe this is where we might say~ as long as corresponding knowledge can reach out to it, whatever is desirable to bring into context), but at the same time it is (or could be seen as) only an amalgamation of peoples combined perceptions when at the same time bringing the aforementioned new thresholds and scope for how diverse reality can reveal to us of itself through our interactions with it and each other, (people or maybe in some instances even benign objects) via the spirit of interplay and mutual recognition of whatever we think it is we are experiencing or perceiving in moulding a basic for structure in an otherwise seemingly meaningless universe... I personally don't believe it is utterly meaningless though, there are an abundance of ways we can make life both interesting and more meaningful to us by simply enhancing creativity and participation.... No one has to proove a damn thing necessarily to make life become reality, and so come alive within that space, which is whatever & however reality opens up & appears to (us/I/them/we) an individual based on their willingness to imagine and participate and solicit a system of conduits or something withing nature or indeed within the world that the human has created for better or for worse [material worlds I mostly DO NOT like]... (also more obviously as for a collective bunch of people all in it together, but even in a group of brainstorming minds each person still has a unique personality or contribution ultimately in the quantum field of play or whatever sustainable by this). But in essence, going back to the book how it may portend (and I really don't know to quote) but my guess going by a quick read of the Wiki page and of how I have heard fleetingly of this concept before, I now want to say aside from my arguably also not so resolved opinion above on the questionable reality, then else in essence if what the Biocentrism as characterized by this novel is in the sense of the Observer Idea and IF that is THE over-riding thing to allegedly go by when given to be believed as reality, then even though I haven't pondered too deeply on that narrative by any particular angle, let alone the specificities of purely observing (that singled out is what I find problematic IF that is the standard arguement PERHAPS made by author Robert Lanza and the like) and so anyway by this Observer idea that if correct grants or brings something OF REALITY ;; TO REALITY as it were, and thus into existence in one way or another....??? That SEEMS to be the going idea as just mentioned in the latter, then if that's what being touted, I myself at first base for myself have to intuit and make a guess around that standard speculation of Observership~ (without necessarily being the best theologian for this myself, although I am not talentless either), it strikes me that to say as would be supposed in the book below such a narrative... (and btw, apparently a work of Semi-Fiction for some part based on I don't know what, but a thesis that is trying to put it's point across)_>_>_> that to say by witnessing reality (allegedly) only makes true (or only comes into being) somehow if there is an observer present or charging up the atmosphere in I don't know somekind of symbiotic arrangement between organisms that when aligned become something more etc???... Yet to exercise a little caution here from another base for thought and so of thought may come reality, I suggest a too defining and restrictive reality seems implausible, MAYBE , where I might say of my guess "is there not something missing of this admonishment of reality re-juxtaposed etc"....At least if proposed in concept is just as would be mused any other one-legged [sts] standpoint potentially too without the full spectrum of possibilities to keep open about, because take this as an example--from my POV--}} what do we say about people who live alone a lot and experience life that way, they have few observers of their activity don't they....Likewise does a distance star not exist because we can barely see it? (ok bad example as a star can have died but from where we are on Earth, we can still see its' emitted light from the bygone time that star was alive yet we still perceive as real and alive in our version of 'now' reality!!).... So as far as I can suggest, and to make a relatively rounded assessment, I portend to say each thing has existence partly of its' own merit to my mind, regardless of realized by other lifeforms it exists.... and for more remote survival mechanisms of certain species not so all pervasive in their quest, can still to my mind be said to exist, be that with a strategy to withstand and survive and probably that thing doesn't get too existentialist about it on the basis of ego, if a plant for example, and so still remains rooted in reality IMO and has a hold or stakehold in the reality somehow is my opinion whether observed or recognized as existing or not, by any nearby eyes and ears, etc.... I mean we all have unique thoughts, but do they too not exist(??) because they are thoughts we maybe never share with others......Think about that, even if it is only to yourself, by yourself if you must!... In any case I imagine strongly this could be an interesting read...."OBSERVER" -}} by 2 authors, Robert Lanza & Nancy Kress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_(novel)

Dark Crystal.....Fabulous, it's only 40 years late, the latest above is Age of Resistance ~ thankyou for your assistance in naming that Dale, lol, got made in 2022.... (original 1982) Also an exclusive, for the first time (despite being determined not to let this happen) I dropped one of my ear pieces, with my head hovering above my cup of tea INTO MY CUP OF TEA, as I pondered why so long for some kind of remake there, but oh gee, Age of Resistance, love the title indeeeeed....it's okay with a few little taps on some kitchen roll, head piece still working.

WTF.... https://davidicke.com/2024/04/13/five-men-who-executed-dpd-driver-as-he-delivered-parcels-are-jailed-for-a-total-of-122-years-after-using-an-axe-knife-and-shovel-to-hack-him-to-death-as-police-admit-they-still-dont-know-the/ (motive)

How did that get to be his response to whatever that was about then? I don't think I noted that when that happened. (Why would I, I don't use TwitteX.)... but "interesting" Interested!

Heart Warming stuff..... Very nice, very what was needed to keep spirits up for any person who puts in as much hard work as David Icke!!!

I only mentioned PM's btw, on a very fine point (with ZERO personal matter contained or involved as per your average human going on a drama spree), not that anyone should attempt mentioning PM's though as a rule (as I think it's unsurprisingly simply against the rules) but I felt like I had a very good reason to mention a subtle thing within PM's (as in a one word) but that was not personal to say in public as per somebody making a general one word apology as was in PM to me, so is that okay Mods? Probably very on the fence I know regarding a tipping point. But I would never say something personal intended as private to go spilling out anything like something more obvious, so no, myself (see post above this page11) I was just pointing to general conduct of someone *in the positive*, who apologized for the amount of images in an otherwise normal-ish PM, and I thought this was pretty fair by that recognition of the man himself DannyUK of him being aware of this thing around data and space used up with such a post that has become his hallmark, etc..

SEMI JOKE sponsorship at end of vid, but probably an honest product, (despite the transparent sketchy nature of it, JUST KIDDING) I suppose>> so Must try some of his dubbed for laughs 'snake-oil' he touted by sponsoring his own video(?) with his own product, that might be his product but is not sure, but could be because it's been tested by a third party (for purity & potency), and he appeared (pretended) to know or not to know that, but then read it on the bottle of CBD, to clarify to himself about his own product... That is the art of amusement at the expense of the modern world's tactical ways. haha. AWAKENCBD.COM .... Sure enough his picture is showing at that (broad spectrum) CBD website.. Such Fun!!

Wow this looks like a lively thread... I'm looking here, not at the sun!... at least I can control the brightness of my Laptop hey! Sounds like a plan... Thanks for your efforts DannyUK, (*& obvious enthusiasm)... it does seem bloaty sometimes as anyone can see, but when you PM'd me one time with some stuff earlier in the year, you were apologetic for so many images coming at me, but you didn't push huge amounts, so I believe you are conscious of that fact and have some control over it (at least when requested).... And my inbox still had room in it after that only very occasional PM from you, hehe. I get what some other people are saying too, so it's a balance and splitting between posts could help where delivering information in the forum at large. This naturally means other peoples posts can wedge, or segway into whatever the scope of any topic is, assuming consistency and a reasonably followable trail of talk/ images/ data. by all & any contributors are roundedly given their chance to interject, then all good, and not too much scrolling is made happy at the same time... By CALMLY if we can taking suggestions & common sense into consideration by ideas to help the flow & even spread of any information (*& I haven't read all on how this kicked off yet mind you*), but then once the air is a little more clear for everyone, coming out of this like Grumpy Grapes said, about your presence DannyUK wouldn't do anyone any good for you to just stop, so there has to be a way to compromise or something... or not compromise and have as RobinJ said An All Yours Thread (by inception of simply being an OP when you want) to go big in your own started threads amenable to that the most if you wanted. I mean you have started your own threads of course already and that works as it is doesn't it for that part? Cheers. all the best.

Brick !!!!!!!! X how X many X mentions? I had to skimp through some of that, I always beat my head with a brick watching it. The guy talking and shooting the vid, has a much mystique and unique qualities as a weathered brick, but somehow it was kinda funny in bemused kind of way! The repair of one corner of one of the graves, that looked nowhere near as smooth as the rest of the cover of the same, but was supposed to look the same is hilariously poor tonal completion, although the ajoining parts did at least segway quite well!.... Clearly everyone was poor in this BRICK CEM if all that was available \to \build \it \with \was \brick! What do we suppose this guy's name maybe.... Perhaps the brother of Stanley Kubrick? An unintentional comedian. Just to be clear SK was an american film-maker, but so might this guy in the video be that one day, who knows.... I'll cut the guy some slack, he has a keen eye ..... and can note out of kilter things..... but that's about it... Check out 23minutes in... that's so unwieldly... but at least the guy filming knows it and let's us know that something is not right.

Suprendo!! Great idea on a move for a forward thinking, and forward facing topic Mito Eve, Trust me to note this prior to getting to the nuts and bolts.... but it's included in your post, so I include it in mine... The licence needed for a VERY SMALL jest for this reason only! >> Just the thought of that alone (for anyone with an ounce of humor- [dark or regular]-humor for a few mere seconds..) would indeed laugh on that note, (and don't feel guilty if you do either, we have to remember we are human sometimes, and weird tho somethings may well be or appear to be, we can allow ourselves to react accordingly as human beings DO =that's us lot for anyone confused)..... and whether the strange elements in prospect of claiming the world as theirs informationally or whatnot, may freak us out, by certain findings, it is down to each of us to decide, and that's what's cool to balance our intake of this and indeed any material..... So as a quick uninformed aside, a bit funny (excuse me), if this were not such a S E R I O U S thread and matter as a whole for MAM being infiltrated as per the DARK SIDE there attempted to be layed bare.. (to be taken seriously, and when so serious, at times is easily possible; a frustrating jaunt (?) that maybe like in any like matter, a matter of will to find out stuff.... and yet where & when necessary chasing down what's going down (or else at other times could be the sound of the furore just like a "flare gun", done for attention by all that is dark and devious out there, and arguably to the same ill effect).... and so anyway could be indeed called for sometimes to assess the level of seriousness or offensive diatribe & anti-truth destablilizing etc / and /or cancel cultureness of it all.. depending on how we find, but as appears at face value ultimately could be the work churned out by propogandist clowns of course as would be the obvious conclusion on one side but also are the paid covert operators in power that corrupt by their own disinformation manifesto of their own to mangle perception & thus disengage ordinary people **but as per the same End Goal as the more amateur disruptors)**... but soberly soberly, I say ALL this before I watch the video which could be a visual headache or disturbance for that part where Elon features, or is believed to, nevertheless, can't miss a pun so fine as I will now just touch upon, even when come the end I maybe more creeped out, after watching but also any excuse for a lighter hearted look at the offending people is a welcome interlude perhaps. Or in aftermath at seeing what has come to light, to use it then to resettle our minds in the process of making up our minds contextually (when coming back to serious likewise) in any regard whilst sussing out stuff (or rather WHEAT FROM CHAFF as per adventure), for literally anyone sincerely processing the world around them, and delving in among the strata of whatever put before us, not least that which is sent to rile & ruffle our beautifully preened feathers, and then in among us, the nominal and sub-nominal fine tuning where be any "sense" to come avail, in among the madnesses can do so, and so as it were reshuffling with the data in said strata of indeed many layers even when cobbled together in the clown element by amateur propagandists as the case maybe (or some cases as certain to be)..... Anyway, as it goes and as for the apparent humor that could be inferred, I will just take this in a mocking lizard stride (STS), as to adopt briefly the seasoned amateur mogul ill defined character but with hyper discernment (think Detective Columbo like I used to watch on TV), if a bit rough around the edges on my off days says I... and anyway of this whole paragraph mine the guy I allude to at first base (although last in the video) is of course aiming at one Elon Musk. Couldn't agree more, identify who is lambasting and mocking us, and sending shockwaves of peculiar derision by perverting truth.etc ..... this is what needs more focusing upon where tenable to understand (their madness included), even when as you said in the Sean Adl-Tabatabai thread, it could be not worth poking around with sleeping dogs at times, though when these certain people are still active and even expanding their vitriol it becomes kinda hard to ignore ,but so whoever are other people in the story, and wherever the infiltrating comes from, I think you still did right in posting it to us, in both the respective threads. Absolutely!.... Whilst btw, speaking of diatribe, excuse my own diatribe above, all I really mean to say is - for want of a better phrase.... Quids in for Truth on some level... (sts)

https://www.iansnow.com/products/the-case-against-fluoride?

so this is saying what?... That a Limited Company was licence-able and the Trust or Foundation it could otherwise have opted to be, wouldn't need a licence?... I am a little confused (as nearly always), not because of your explanations though Mito Eve, of course you make good plain english even when supplied in detail).. Other than that as you say had to be Limited Company to better avoid the appearance of setting up a board of something that could be perceived as political opinions... Don't think all Trusts and Foundations are automatically in the firing zone for that though are they???

HAAAAA, love this quote you have quoted..... What do ACTUAL lazy people procrastinate about, possibly I suggest~ how much more lazy they could be given the option is probably what!... but like fat people, not all fat people can help or control everything about being fat... (then again I am not a geneticist with the knowledge to explain that, a dietician and a biologist may also intervene there better than I can, as well as a flexible minded psychologist,... so already it's a job to explain other than saying some people JUST ARE lazy.) Confident People....Stupid people have little need for intellect and so go with the flow a whole heap more, and so don't worry nearly so much about being paranoid over what they don't know, that otherwise they would be advised to side-step or know better about, if anyone was brave enough to break it to them how stupid they are behaving (again, some people in society are JUST ARE that way) Doubts / Second Takes.... in among matters of Discernment mostly found in Intently Actively Intelligent People:--- Yeah, people with genuine setbacks in how they research, store/handle and process data mentally, *like myself sometimes* can be consoled by the fact that just because they procrastinate over it and around it, etc (and can become anxious or depressed because of it), does not equal they are intrinsically lazy or defeated, or aka by any intent lazy. Anyway great quote Campion..

For more in general discoveries, I just found this Atlas book, on Pinterest, somebody might consider.. Noted it purely by chance (*or to put another way semi speculative associative weird offering, given how the internet follows us, though hopefully I am not that paranoid*, lol) Atlas of Improbable Places by Travis Elborough https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/106045766218888383/

Well, that brings Giants a few steps closer to having BEEN TRUE, and if also (*in addition to actual bone evidence*) what I thought once, was just folklore, looks to be more and more true, just like say HUMUNGOUS TREES that are supposed to have lived on this Earth too, and no doubt some videos giving evidence for that likewise. However in this one following area as regards folklore on Catalina Island what some people claim they saw, is to speculate somewhat fancifully in the urban legend way of things that was mentioned about in a small chapter of that video near the end, as the native still alive today said, them who had seen Green Door, the Giants could've appeared through this (it speculated by some) the "Mysterious Green Door" touched upon near the end of that video.... Well anyways very imaginative, and cool though that it is to think and as freaky as that is to imagine, not surprising IF some people might find that a little too magic in that one aspect, as that had only ever come before the eyes of 4 or 5 people ever, and only the Green Door itself been spotted about 3 different times (and hearsay gave it as having slightly changing location on the island according to the folklore where it would be at roundabout the Toyon Bay area [last observed sighting in 1970's], sightings of it- where the Green Door would appear and sometimes even be seen floating someway off the ground this door) ... but for those that saw it and observed and then approached that Green Door (sorry, nothing to do with Shakin' Stevens, I said Zip) when they opened it, fell back on themselves in recoiled fear, as it what lay behind revealed only blackness by what might be described as a portal abyss through it as they took a look what was behind this mystery cosmic door as I suppose it was touted.... Then okay that's one sort of interesting thing, but the more bigger MOVE IN PROGRESS here is the fact THEY WERE HERE these giants themselves, THAT is the more interesting thing just because it's more tangible thanks to the work of this Glidden guy, (amateur though he was and thus some of his methods of dig & display controversial), and what we see by opening our eyes around the world is not just on that island Giant findings got found -- & in whatever time frame carbon dated where any dig can tell its' own story, etc -- so that noted too as came out from snippets of this video and related videos... (I have previously not explored this topic greatly at all), so anyway that means coverage of a broader field of archaeological digs elsewhere that gives Giants more cred. Thus precisely what brings it home to us from these various places, once we realize it's not just a freak one off exclusive location where these Giants have been and are being found...... Thanks Mito Eve.

Mind slightly blown on that one, not mind blown really at the video when I saw it a few weeks back......but I'm saying at least you see that's not reality as you see it, or imagine (given whatever else in its' place), and still yet results in supposing anyhow that video (and a whole heap of other videos according to you at least) is/are not exactly portraying to the finest, according to whatever you have going on in your doubted mind, so okay, despite all the wonderful graphics I can probably agree that no-one has reality fully understood outside of just the human experience at least. Also with that as well it could be Graphic visualizations have limitations maybe are we saying, I don't know.

If hell (or theunderworld) is half as welcoming as this forum I'll be half way free from purgatory which in turn is half way to hell. How can one be on the up when the elevator is going down. That's what some of these ideas may sound like, BUT I was asking DaleP a serious question nonetheless.

What is that a spoiler OF exactly, if that video is watched? A movie or what is in the video? Thanks CinderDS, as I await the answer, directing discretion about whether it's worth looking at a spoiler, depending on how spoiling it is.... Spoilers do normally refer to movies though, so this is what this is too or something a bit like a movie? (naturally I have not seen yet, as I am asking THIS first)... Thanks.

Mud Bloods, haha.

Dale P ? You're the best at answering this sort of thing arn't you?

I comprehend the video indeed quite well, as perfectly as I know by my OWN intuition, not just as I am told or influenced by... I finally came onto watching the vid, it's not bad,, although some parts are repetititve, I think that is partly on purpose to drill how being "a Chosen One" (of any ilk worth embellishing on) is just that, and so some points are WORTH INVESTING to by them being repeated in parts. Others whether Chosen or not, everyone has humanity if they choose to show & express it, so likewise also an individual may share with another individual something to heal by this flame or light of truth, where the flame is only intimidating if people are not prepared to be honest with themselves, and from there perhaps sharing similar depth with others on a similar path....The main thing appears all you need to be at first reckoning is someone aspiring to resonate with that level of energy authenticity of light and meaning, and even existential questioning, and philosophy more in general on more go easy days... Anyway many youtubes can be repetitive, but I still think this video does a fairly good job even by using that as a technique, and pointing to and explaining a bit about what the Chosen One on their path may encounter and not always to their best welcome or appreciation, (where indeed in the scenarios everyday can feel like a spiritual warfare as it says in the video- or at least a struggle to ALLOW/ INVITE others to understand and illuminate qualities untouched by conventional social exchanges that we rarely find in social norms of social conditioning and social acquiescence).... So this means the Chosen One goes it alone for a time when needs be, in order to preserve integrity of being and key structure for growth & inner authenticness, in order to keep the fidelity of spiritual essence alive and most permeating when desired to be, and by this solitude, helps preserve a high frequency in tact and of a quality able to yield & maximize what that energy has to offer, as well as harmonize it when needs be also, even when people are in fear of this energy by nature of what they don't understand, because of their own insecurities that would for some part mean letting go of misalignment such as found in false or material attachment. So, it helps the video says for the Chosen One not to match incessantly or condescend to others in order to gain their favor, as that would compromise with the superficial and instead the Chosen One, best wish and arguably best path remains in keeping with being as undiluted in spirit energy as possible in respect of their personal sovereign power as expressed and realized best when in solitude until the day others may take the mantle also, via own or collective inspiration.... This, even when A Lone Figure, or Chosen One has knowingly been put into that duality (not by preference, but by necessity to mitigate and also not waste energy on superficial big gatherings where energy is invariably diluted and weak in unique creativity or original telling) so then the solitude by this cause is a mixed blessing a bit like a dilemma, except that in solitude a negative has the power to exist in pure manifestation and grow despite fear, including dare I say in the Chosen One, where surely fear is a part of their makeup just as any other mortal.... Plus, this bright essence foretold as open to all, or already realized in some, (maybe call it radiance, but that can suggest ego (if taken the wrong way) so be a bit careful there, but stay bright anyway is my tip, however it is known the brighter one shines, the more resentment one may encounter) yet for the Chosen One this is of little consequence in hindering their quest, and life mission, and where constitutes a negative by interaction with others not understanding, this only reinforces the determination, even when in a state of duality supplementary to the fact people are both drawn to light & attraction but also repelled by what this energy and truth reveals to the unsuspecting about themselves .... There by a change in dynamics comes a primal reaction and is seen markedly so as a consequence of how those curious by the light, have it reflected (back) at them in too much intensity at first.. (suffice to say each person has light, but not all are open to it) ...and maybe this intensity -like a first time at anything- sometimes is unavoidable... (although might it be can also be empathized with and worked with if someone helping someone else, to and of the person still learning their potential, and what is their essence of being, etc, is as intents go~ being true in wishing to understand in the first place, without judgement upon the findings), but the key objective is surely to say once explored or exposed is set free, and can reveal too much all at once in some instances for some people it can easily be imagined, so much so sometimes, they recoil and scurry back to their world of hidden sub-prime-reality and superficial blockade......This can often be as the video describes how by those less appreciative, or less knowing of how more empowered they could be, once they are open and honest with themselves... [==A person is more than what they perhaps ever realized], perhaps owing to being less experienced in truth or spiritual related 'assets' reflecting or leading with their true essence, previously absent from their everyday life, and social conformity..... This making them compelled to behave in a certain masking sort of way (like in Covid) when in among other superficial people, UNTIL when in the company of someone whose mere presence, can evoke both admiration & fear... And that by any definition surely is a way of portraying a Chosen One....(who so ever to call, or self acknowledge for such a title wherever it holds merit)... Or as I prefer to say self actuated person awakened (self aware throughout) by the presence of being and the "power of now" over and above material constructs, which by and large only serve to keep prisoner the person already enslaved by the system as the system is designed to do. The best part comes in chapter SIX of the reasons given for why a Chosen One, defying convention basicly without compromise to the ills of society, and thus seeks others to share or shed some light with, as can then be a candle lighting another candle... but as needs must sometimes (depending I would say on your personality inclination- ie, shy or outgoing or moderately sociable), well as the video says it may ultimately be discreetly and selectively with "Chosen Others" (so to speak- ALL BE IT OF FREE WILL OF COURSE between whoever) but when times to mingle to make fertile soil for the energy to manifest, it is best for the Chosen One in solitude (when needs must) to preserve energy to retain at the highest vibration, where possible to conceive anyway, and so inviting others to a similar high standard.....and so as things evolve, rather than people be intimidated, can resolve and come together to experience and those willing to have the best use of their energy made applicable or in whatever accord suiting whatever purpose, and enabling best use of time, channeling into people that actually care about their own divinity, and are not afraid to admit it, above all to themselves.

Me neither in any exact way, this however is what I was using like an approximation marker on a consciousness barometer kinda thing seeing that other people have been talking about "astral" this and that in other threads. (which I don't comprehend too well which is why I raise it in a round about way here, although I do have an open mind... but other threads are better probably for going deeper there.. but let me just say even when someone knows they are openminded, it can still be the case the person has to be in the mood for such lofty subjects to embrace them properly) Okay I get your perhaps main point I think (*at least around the thinking of thought for now...ie, once thought, at once passes us by kinda thing any moment a moment eclipses*), but this and beyond like in your Edit needs me to study some (not sure when I learn all that properly), So for those like me who have not read any existing studies, we can still say I guess at least everyone basicly has a basic concept of "now" to conceive and then to perceive as it suits them for each individual I suppose. Though in advanced learning as I guess it is, what you say in your Edit, where it is interesting in particular, that word "numinal" I have not even seen before, but will look into it when I can and maaaaybe pop back if I can understand... (COULD BE quite a perplexing task & ask though unless certain columns of understanding are already known/established by which we can be advised, so hard perhaps only if we don't have good instruction from good authority on this subject) Anyway for my part whether I could add anything more worthy I don't know... (but my guess is I will let this rest for now as my study tends to be slow), so back onto Chosen Ones, as I don't wish to derail that topic....

One weird dichotomy is that if everything happens in the now, how come we have to take ourselves off into the astral is kind of what I wonder.... It's as though nothing in our own perception is ever good enough? unless we are in some dream state, and so become more open to everything, but that can also make us more vulnerable to the ways of the world "as is"...if not careful...

hmmmm, not to sound outcast by my intention (or intentionally out of step ok), but responding feeling rather aloft sometiimes (which isn't generally a lack of depth on my part), but anyway about the above last two posts (Origin and DaleP) anyway, interesting if only to observe no mention (curiously) of "astral surfing" or something closer to naming that as one major thing (some people might see it as major) .... I don't mind too much eitherway but what I'm saying is soooo interesting how to see such a phrase (or anything refering to higher realms of consciousness) was not by the term astral or similar injected into the narrative somewhere there (although ACTUALLY on occasions, it's good as it makes a change that it wasn't -as well- allowing other methods of explanation/ letting other words do the talking, as opposed to always seeing the commonly seen "astral" phrase, that by "it" alone seems too aloft, at least to some people, but I am not deriding that, except some of us will need more down to earth reasoning too)...... I mean ok great on the one hand to see an overview at what one (or even a Chosen One) might come to "expect" (hardly reassuring by the looks of some things outlined) but let's say this were the astral being refered or something similar, well, I would just like to highlight that's where you both could be at for all some of the rest of us know who don't necessarily tie into to all that quite so cut n thrust or however to say.... Err yeah just saying. BUT dialing back a bit if I may... just as a note of more simple under-pinning and integrity here where everyone can understand=}} Programming goes on even in people not willing to admit it, I get that, and anyone else serious (even sceptics meaning ordinary clowns and sheep or "students of life" moreover hopefully)_ about lifting their essence out of the murk/ illusory clutter and of obfuscating shadows forbearing on them, should also be serious about that.... This is a fundament of truth// honesty awareness.

EXACTLY, which then has much more potential of becoming violent when people repress and suppress, worse still, when they do that to themselves.