The Flat Earth Thread: The reality of our physical plane (v2) in Nature Of Reality Posted July 9, 2020 21 hours ago, ink said: Orwell's book 1984 Below is an excerpt where O'Brien explains to Winston how Big Brother uses its power to control the human mind. O'Brien - "Power is power over human beings. Over the body and above all over the mind...Already our control over matter is absolute." Winston - "But how can you control matter? You don't even control the climate or the law of gravity. And there are diseases, pain, death." O'Brien - "We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. There is nothing we could not do. You must get rid of those 19th century ideas about the laws of nature. We make the laws of nature." Winston - "But you do not! You aren't even masters of this planet! ...The world itself is only a spec of dust. And man is tiny. Helpless. How long has he been in existence? For millions of years the earth was uninhabited." O'Brien - "Nonsense. The earth is as old as we are. No older. How could it be older? Nothing exists except through human consciousness." Winston - "But the rocks are full of bones of extinct animals. Mammoths and mastodons and enormous reptiles which lived long before man was ever heard of." O'Brien - "Have you ever seen those bones Winston? Of course not. 19th century biologists invented them. Before man, there was nothing. After man, if he could come to an end, there would be nothing. Outside man there is nothing" Winston - "But the whole universe is outside us. Look at the stars. Some of them are a million light years away. They're out of reach forever." O'Brien- "What are the stars? They are bits of a fire a few km away. We could reach them if we wanted to or we could block them out. The earth is the center of the universe. The sun and stars go around it. For certain purposes of course, that is not true. When we navigate the ocean or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to assume the earth goes around the sun and the stars are millions upon millions of km's away. But what of it? Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you ever gotten double think?...The real power, the power that we have to fight for night and day is not power over things, but power over men...How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?" Winston - "By making him suffer." O'Brien - "Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering how can you be sure that he's obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of our own choosing. Do you begin to see then what kind of world we are creating?" 20 hours ago, ink said: To add my above post quoting 1984 .... and why not as it is on topic considering the title of this thread .... the conversation continues thus .... O'Brien: It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but MORE merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress towards more pain. The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy-everything. Already we are breaking down the habits of thought which have survived from before the Revolution. We have cut the links between child and parent, and between man and man, and between man and woman. No one dares trust a wife or a child or a friend any longer. But in the future there will be no wives and no friends. Children will be taken from their mothers at birth, as one takes eggs from a hen. The sex instinct will be eradicated. Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now. There will be no loyalty, except loyalty towards the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. There will be no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy. There will be no art, no literature, no science. When we are omnipotent we shall have no more need of science. There will be no distinction between beauty and ugliness. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always-do not forget this, Winston-always there will be the intoxication of power,constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face for ever.’ Wow !! l've watched the film a few times just to remind myself how utterly grim it is. There seems to be no hint or suggestion of this level of manipulation and control in the film. l know that films can never cover the depth of a book but this is a big omission. Looks like l've got to make a bit more room on my overstuffed book shelf..