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GeoffB
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Posts posted by GeoffB
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3 minutes ago, kilowon said:
I thought you were done with me?
I am done with doing all the work of trawling through a very long scientific paper because you are too lazy to.
You previously said that no scientific paper on SARS-CoV-2 had controls.
I have proved you wrong.
There are many, many SARS-CoV-2 scientific papers who all mention "mock infection controls".
Some of those papers may not detail exactly what those mock infection controls are other than the well known protocols.
If you want to know the exact ingredients of the substrate they used in the experiment and the mock experiment you will have to ask them if it's not mentioned in the paper.
If it's the usual scientific ingredients there is nothing in there other than nutrients and antibiotics which won't have any adverse effect on the results.
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1 minute ago, kilowon said:
You just said that terrain have been debunked. That would mean that lifestyle does not adversely affect us. Because that is the crux of Terrain theory.
The crux of Terrain Theory is that germs and viruses do not exist.
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13 minutes ago, kilowon said:
Read the documents. The judge personal opinion have no bearing on the matter. That is why an expert was appointed by the judge and even he, a germ theory believer and of course not a real expert since viruses does not exist, have major issues with the six papers from Bardens. You are out of your league here.
You do not understand the court papers you are referring to.
The judgement was made on a legal technicality and nothing to do with viruses.
Instead of blandly saying "the whole paper" what specific part of the paper did the judges say that there was any doubt that viruses exist?
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11 minutes ago, kilowon said:
And yet here you are, wasting your time with me. What does that say about you?
I have the patience of a Saint.
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5 minutes ago, kilowon said:
So the poison we put in our bodies does not affect us? How do you explain the prevalent of lifestyle diseases then? How do you explain why doctors and nutritionist and even WHO, encourage people to live healthy lifestyle. Are they all singing off a debunked hymn sheet?
You ignore my previous posts where I clearly state that lifestyles can adversely effect the immune system allowing viruses to take hold.
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Just now, kilowon said:
it is okay to say that you do not know.
I can't be bothered to keep wasting my time on you.
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1 minute ago, kilowon said:
the whole thing is the relevant section. I have already posted it, in english to boot
It doesn't say what you think it says.
It was a legal technicality which had nothing to do with viruses.
The judges agreed in the High Court and in the Appeals Court that the measles virus exists.
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30 minutes ago, kilowon said:
This is a meta analysis. Not an actual experiment. Please explain what the mock control was?
Write to the real scientists who carried it out and they will tell you.
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34 minutes ago, kilowon said:
Real scientists with knowledge of virology? There are no real scientist when it comes to virology as it is a completely made up science with no actuality in reality. No one, in the 150 years of germ theory, has ever shown any scientific proof that a so called virus exist in a living being as the only means to look at that phantasm is through the electron microscope, which can only look at dead things. No one has ever shown that virus exist outside of a cell culture in a lab as the only way to look at virus is through an electron microscope which can only look at dead thing. No one has ever shown that a virus can leave a host and enter another host as the only way to look at virus is in cell culture through an electron microscope which can only look at dead thing. No one has ever shown a virus in vivo as the only way to supposedly see virus is through and electron microscope which can only look at dead thing in cell culture, not living processes and certainly nothing within a living being. How would they even be able to rip Lanka Control experiment to shred when they themselves do not do control for their experiment. In 150 years, every time scientist have tried to infect someone with a virus they have failed. I posted all the link to those failed experiment above which i noticed you conveniently refuse to comment on. Just as you seem unwilling to answer the question on how a non-living piece of materials with no agency of its own can seek and invade cells and hijack them and forced them to reproduced
Terrain Theory is ancient history.
Modern virology and gene sequencing has totally debunked it.
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45 minutes ago, kilowon said:
Nope. That was only one of the reason. FFS, I have posted the actual court document in english which anyone can read and you still carrying on with that MSM lie?
I have read the court document in English and it doesn't say what you think it says.
Copy and paste the relevant section on here that you are referring to.
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4 hours ago, Apotheosis said:
Proving a negative existential claim in the absence of proof of the positive ... God, you're dumb.
Well you've just proved you are the dumb one as I'm
reliablyinformed by kowloon that Lanka has done the experiment to prove that viruses do not exist.However, Lanka hasn't bothered to write down the protocol for real scientists with knowledge of modern virology to rip it to shreds.
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14 hours ago, scowie said:
Can you provide a link to a paper that shows this being done?
I have had discussions with virologists in the past where they have admitted to using off-the-shelf controls that are not made up in the same way as the viral samples and therefore there are many variables between treatment and control arms that could be responsible for any observed cytopathic effects.
It only took me 10 seconds to find the mock-infection SARS-CoV-2 mice control paper.
Here is another one, there will be loads more......
"were the most decreased genes in our analysis of SARS-CoV-2–infected lung epithelial cells compared to mock controls."
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2020.623012/full
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19 hours ago, novymir said:
Well, the dude has only posted in this thread, since June.
That is because I have never disagreed with David Icke before.
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13 hours ago, scowie said:
Can you provide a link to a paper that shows this being done?
I have had discussions with virologists in the past where they have admitted to using off-the-shelf controls that are not made up in the same way as the viral samples and therefore there are many variables between treatment and control arms that could be responsible for any observed cytopathic effects.
"mock-treated hACE2 mice (n = 15) were used as control."
The pathogenicity of SARS-CoV-2 in hACE2 transgenic mice.
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36 minutes ago, Apotheosis said:
You're a bald-faced liar. The papers brought forward by the student did not meet the evidentiary criteria set forth by Stefan Lanka. This is what the high court stated in its decision, which I have actually read. Lanka did not "get off on a technicality." That's a lie from unscrupulous media sources you're repeating. Can you even read German?
Proving a negative existential claim in the absence of proof of the positive ... God, you're dumb.
But the pattern is typical of all claims of the existence of invisible causal agents: thoroughly religious.
The "legal technicality" was that Lanka asked for one paper and the medical student provided 6 and he was late in his submission.
All the judges agreed that the measles virus exists.
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5 hours ago, kilowon said:
Addressed the point in my post, I did not mentioned Lanka at all there. Why are the virologist themselves admitting that they did not follow proper procedure to prove that sarscov2 exist and that it is the cause of a disease. Again, where are the literally tens of thousand of scientific papers that confirm the original finding. The fact that you yourself have not read tens of thousands of papers about sarscov2 isolation shows again that you are just parroting and have no idea if that is so.
Your original post contained a falsehood.
You said "All these quotes come from the first papers".
Those quotes do not appear in the papers themselves.
A journalist called Torsten Engelbrecht asked the following question.....
"We asked several study authors “Do your electron micrographs show the purified virus?”, they gave the following responses:"
Their replies do not diminish the fact that the virus SARS-CoV-2 was identified.
I'm not going to go through tens of thousands of scientific papers as it is totally unnecessary.
Reputable scientists write their process in a paper which is for all to see.
If there are any errors the papers can be asked to be retracted.
None of these papers have been retracted.
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One fundamental point people are missing about David Icke saying that viruses do not exist and a question I would like answered.
David Icke has famously said in the past when he was talking, correctly in my view, about the Global Elites plan of control and to cull the population “Stage one you create a problem. It could be a manufactured virus”.
China and Iran have accused the US of deliberately releasing the virus as a bioweapon.
Someone in the future may release a virus as a bioweapon.
If the Chinese and Iranian governments are right that the US released the virus as a bioweapon or someone releases a virus as a bioweapon in the future (something David Icke has predicted) how will David Icke inform the world or explain with any authority when he is saying now that “viruses do not exist”?
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20 minutes ago, Grumpy Owl said:
Whose "facts" though?
I do seriously note with interest that this particular thread is the only one you ever participate in, despite being someone who supposedly has followed David Icke and believes/supports much of what he has previously said/written.
Despite what you insist, you're coming across like a gatekeeper to me. Prove me wrong, or be gone from here.
Virology is an exact science.
Viruses existing is a provable fact.
I'm quite happy to believe in abstract concepts and theories and that is why I've been following David Icke for 20 years.
I'll send you a photograph of all his books I have if you like and a photo of my Wembley ticket.
With all the questions I have to answer on this thread doesn't give me much time to contribute on any other thread.
As I agree with 99% of what David Icke says I cannot add much to the debate as David has said it all.
I am constantly backing David on other forums that are hostile to him.
Pointing out David's mistake of listening to Kaufman a self confessed Natural Healing Consultant and Psychiatrist for an important subject of the existence of viruses during a "Plandemic" and a Global Elite hoax doesn't make me a gatekeeper.
He has admitted the existence of viruses previously in his books and videos but now he has changed his mind that they no longer exist.
If he wanted some advice on viruses he should listen instead to people like Judy Mikovits, Mike Yeadon and Andrew Wakefield.
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1 hour ago, kilowon said:
Na Zhu et al. (NEJM): “[We show] an image of sedimented virus particles, not purified ones” Wan Beom Park et al. (Journal of Korean Medical Science): “We did not obtain an electron micrograph showing the degree of purification”
Myung-Guk Han et al. (Osong Public Health and Research Perspectives): “We could not estimate the degree of purification because we do not purify and concentrate the virus cultured in cells
Leo L. M. Poon; Malik Peiris (Nature Medicine): “The image is the virus budding from an infected cell. It is not purified virus
Sharon R. Lewin et al. (The Medical Journal of Australia): ““The nucleic acid extraction was performed on isolate material recovered from infected cells. This material was not centrifuged, so was not purified through sucrose gradient to have a density band as such. The EM images were obtained directly from cell culture material
All these quotes come from the first papers that claimed to have discovered the sarscov2. Even the virologist themselves are admitting that their processes for discovering the virus, were at the very least, incomplete.
There are literally tens of thousands of scientific papers which confirm the original findings of the very first Zhu rushed paper.
Lanka has NO paper describing his fringe view and so-called experiment.
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29 minutes ago, Nobby Noboddy said:
I don't think Lanka is a fraud. He invested his own time effort and money to provide a verifiable proof that the very process to 'isolate' a virus creates what they identify as a virus - DOH!
Where does Lanka get his money from?
He publishes a monthly magazine, runs a website with advertising revenue, sells books and offers pills, lotions and potions all to the gullible.
He can afford top lawyers to appeal a court decision where he had to cough up 100,000 euros to a lowly poor medical student who proved to the court that the measles virus exists. Lanka got off on a legal technicality.
Lanka has no written verifiable proof that viruses do not exist because he knows it will be torn to shreds by people who understand viruses.
Lanka is a fraud.
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1 hour ago, Grumpy Owl said:
And I go back to what I have said previously, in that 'all these people' with their 'virology knowledge' are never going to turn round and admit that viruses don't exist, because then they would lose any credibility they ever had.
If you've ever really followed or read any of David Icke's work, you should know what he means when he talks about "The System". People heaviliy ingrained into, or invested in, The System, rarely break ranks.
People like Kaufman, Lanka and Cowan that you keep mentioning may well be frauds, I don't know.
But you are never going to get any support for their theories from 'system experts', who have their own vested interests in maintaining the status quo.
Like I said, it all comes down to what you yourself believe. You can choose to believe that David Icke is wrong and that viruses exist, because 'virologists say they do'.
It's like saying that someone is wrong when they say that 'God doesn't exist', because 'thousands of vicars and priests' believe that God does exist.
Well, "they would say that".
Modern virology is a highly complex discipline with it's own terminology.
Because it is difficult to understand it is easy for charlatans to make outrageous claims which sound appealing to those who haven't researched the undisputed facts.
Every claim that Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan and their proxies have made have been countered by facts.
Not one scientist or medic involved in exposing the Covid scam supports the fringe view that viruses do not exist.
Mike Yeadon, Judy Mikovits, Andrew Wakefied et al have nothing else to lose as their careers have already been ruined by "the system".
So it's not just "system" scientists it's also scientists outside the "system" who don't agree with Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan et al.
David Icke is wrong not because of my belief system but because of the indisputable facts.
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2 hours ago, ink said:
Sorry but I did stop reading your post at that point!
They have their whole life's belief system to lose!
They would, literally, need to determine that all they had thought 'true' has been and was a lie .... very much to lose in my opinion .... in essence, their entire consideration of their life!
Many retired medical professionals are now questioning the whole Covid narrative now they are not worried about being sacked.
Many retired climate scientists are now speaking out about the whole Global Warming narrative.
Not one retired scientist has questioned whether viruses exist because they know it is bunkum.
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2 hours ago, Grumpy Owl said:
We have other topics for people to discuss these subjects in more detail:
Also, as an alternative, have a look into German New Medicine:
I don't see any further purpose to this thread, which like others is just going round in circles, regurgitating the same arguments over and over.
Many people are questioning 'big pharma' and the aims of the 'health industry', thus it is only natural that some will become sceptical when it comes to viruses.
As I pointed out earlier in this thread, 'expert virologists' will never turn around and admit they are wrong, after all their livelihood and their career is all based around their belief, or what they have been educated (programmed) to believe.
I'm no doctor or scientist, but it is my belief that they could all be wrong about such things.
David Icke believes there are no viruses, as do others, and equally there are many people who do believe viruses exist.
No one with an ounce of modern virology knowledge, including thousands of retired scientists with nothing to lose, believes that viruses do not exist.
Even alternative scientists like Rupert Sheldrake has conventional views on Covid.
Hardly any scientist bothers to counter Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan because their ideas are so ridiculous they are not worth the effort.
I'm quite happy to have alternative views on any subject but when those views can be easily countered by facts and science it is time to abandon them for the bunk that they are.
It's a shame that charlatans like Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan have seduced people in the alternative media like David Icke, Jon Rappaport, Mike Adams et al with their nonsense.
I'm beginning to believe that Kaufman with his Svengali like influence using his psychiatrist skills and NLP has deliberately divided the alternative media and is the one who is a shill.
Either that, or just like the rest of them, he is just in it to make money off of the gullible.
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8 minutes ago, kilowon said:
I know exactly where you got that wall of text from. Do you ever post anything that is your own opinion or based on your own research? Bot like behaviour. And what exactly is a proper scientist. Is it someone who work at the behest of big pharma? Is it someone taking grant money from Bill gates and the likes? So are we saying now that virus can be infected by bacteria? How does that even work? And how is fetal cow serum or dye benign. Now about the controls for the zhou et al paper since you said they are always done
One small paragraph is from someone else the rest is mine.
Lanka is a fraud.
The Zhou paper was the very first where they were rushed to get it published as the world was facing a pandemic of unknown proportions. We have since learnt it's not much of a pandemic.
Thousands of other papers have been published since showing their protocols and the results were the same as Zhou.
Lanka has produced nothing.
David Icke's claim that 'there is no virus'?
in David Icke Discussion
Posted
So where does it exactly say in the court papers that the Judges found that any of the papers did not prove the measles virus exists?
You can't tell me because it is not in there.
Lanka got off on a legal technicality.