GeoffB

As you well know I am vehemently opposed to vaccines and I prefer a healthy life style to pharmaceuticals. You also know I have been supporting David Icke for 20 years but he has taken his eye off the ball in being seduced by Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan etc. with their ridiculous notion that viruses do not exist.

My opinion that viruses exist is backed up by fact and verified scientific experiments. Your opinion that "viruses do not exist" is just an abstract unproven theory peddled by charlatans with books, pills, lotions and potions to sell to the gullible and you've lapped it up. Yes the human body is complex and malign forces around the world want to subjugate the masses but it doesn't mean viruses do not exist.

You are talking absolute rubbish. They are not "dead" cells they are live cells held in a liquid suspension of nutrients, antifungals, antibiotics etc. to keep the cells alive so they can be experimented on. Dead cells are of no use whatsoever. Here is an explanation from a scientist ...... “Tissue culture is a technique that has been perfected, through trial and error, to keep eukaryotic tissue cells alive and happy in a flask. Scientists like Renato Dulbecco, David Eagle, and David Baltimore have contributed to modifying the technique to what it is today, involving media that includes all of the nutrients and growth factors that cells need in order to survive. Scientists all over the world perform these tissue culture techniques every day. I’m one of them. We never see cytopathic effects just doing these standard techniques (unless you’re really bad at cell culture and leave your cells unattended for too long). We only see cytopathic effects in response to manipulation of the cell culture, including but not limited to the addition of certain viruses or specific drugs. And yes, these experiments involve a control (mock). For example, this experiment finds cytopathic effects specific to SARS-CoV-2 in human cell lines and, of course, includes a mock control with the same culturing conditions that just doesn’t have the virus added (figure 1D).” https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17796-z

"Has the virus been isolated and does it exist"? The facts showing that viruses exist …… Viruses are a quirk of nature and there is scientific debate on whether they are living organisms or not. (A similar concept to the quirk of nature in Quantum Mechanics whereby light can be a particle or a waveform). Viruses have been proved to exist by modern virology through experiments with an isolated single human cell infected with a virus and shown to infect a different healthy human cell. (Modern Virologists have always known that viruses cannot be “isolated” or “purified” in the dictionary sense of the word). Mock controls are done in almost every case using the same known liquid suspension or substrate. The experiment is written up in a scientific paper for peer review. Just Google “virus cell culture paper” for thousands of these papers. No paper has had to be retracted. Viruses have been proved to exist via modern electron microscopy and photographed showing the virus which is similar but different to an exosome. Just Google “virus cell culture paper”, Images. Again no paper has been retracted. Viruses have been proved to exist via modern whole gene sequencing of all of the base pairs. SARS-CoV-2 has 29,903 base pairs which have been laboriously whole gene sequenced (it takes 4 to 5 days and NOT computer generated) and uploaded to the GISAID Initiative over 5.7 million times. Again no paper has been retracted. Viruses have been proved to exist via PCR tests which are highly specific in detecting a unique long gene sequence fragment of the virus you want to detect. It is not so good at diagnosing infection as the virus detected maybe dead fragments and not viable which can only be done by cell culture. However, the CT rate if low is an indication of infectability. (Although PCR tests are incredibly accurate it all depends on the Quality Control measures in the labs. The Lighthouse labs for mass testing in the UK have poor Quality Control and produce many “false positives”). Again no paper has been retracted. Viruses have been proved to exist in the German courts in the infamous Lanka v Bardens case where all the judges and experts agreed that the measles virus was real. (Lanka weaseled himself out of paying the 100,000euro bet by persuading the court that it was proved by “six” scientific papers and not “one” that he had asked for). There has been no scientific paper, even a pre-print or one not peer reviewed, that has ever suggested that viruses do not exist. Unlike thousands of sceptical climate scientists questioning man made global warming there has been no retired virologist or otherwise with nothing to lose in coming forward with any doubts about “viruses existing”. There have been no death bed confessions from modern virologists. There have been no scientific papers suggesting viruses do not exist. This indicates that viruses are real and do exist. The US has over 200 bioweapons labs around the world, there are many others. They are all working on viruses. If there is a biological accident or attack your semi-religious belief that “viruses do not exist” will not save you from sickness and/or death. Some Charlatans with a failed scientific/medical background with books to sell, websites to fund and pills, lotions and potions to sell to the gullible have seen the profit potential of abandoning mainstream medicine in favour of the 19th century Terrain Theory and “viruses do not exist” quackery. People like Stefan Lanka, Andrew Kaufman, Tom Cowan, Sam Bailey etc. These people have seduced others in the alternative media without a medical or scientific background but who also have books to sell and websites to fund to support their spurious 19th century claims and that “viruses do not exist”. People like David Icke, Jon Rappaport, Mike Adams etc. They keep appearing on each others platforms, including Alex Jones Infowars, and keep quoting each other and operate in an echo chamber of lies and deceit to illicit money from the gullible. Facts are facts and viruses have been proved to exist. These people may have interesting things to say on Covid, lockdowns, masks, vaccines, global warming, controlling the masses and many other subjects but on “viruses not existing” they are totally wrong, out of date and have been proved to be wrong. You may be a follower of these people and want to believe they are right 100% of the time but on “viruses not existing” they are just plain wrong, out of date and have been proved to be wrong.

The facts showing that viruses exist …… Viruses have been proved to exist by modern virology through experiments with an isolated single human cell infected with a virus and shown to infect a different healthy human cell. Mock controls are done in almost every case. The experiment is written up in a scientific paper for peer review. No paper has had to be retracted. Viruses have been proved to exist via modern electron microscopy and photographed showing the virus which is similar but different to an exosome. Again no paper has been retracted. Viruses have been proved to exist via modern whole gene sequencing of all of the base pairs. SARS-CoV-2 has 29,903 base pairs which have been uploaded to the GISAID initiative over 4.7 million times. Again no paper has been retracted. Viruses have been proved to exist via PCR tests which are highly specific in detecting the unique long gene sequence fragment of the virus you want to detect. It is not so good at diagnosing infection as the virus detected maybe dead fragments and not viable which can only be done by cell culture. However, the CT rate is an indication of infectability. Again no paper has been retracted. Viruses have been proved to exist in the German courts in the infamous Lanka v Bardens case where all the judges and experts agreed that the measles virus was real. (Lanka weaseled himself out of paying the 100,000euro bet by persuading the court that it was proved by “six” scientific papers and not “one” that he had asked for). There has been no retired virologist or otherwise with nothing to lose in coming forward with any doubts about “viruses existing”. There have been no death bed confessions from modern virologists. This indicates that viruses are real and do exist. The US has over 200 bioweapons labs around the world, there are many others. They are all working on viruses. If there is a biological accident or attack your semi-religious belief that “viruses do not exist” will not save you from sickness and/or death. Some Charlatans with a failed scientific/medical background with books to sell, websites to fund and pills, lotions and potions to sell to the gullible have seen the profit potential of abandoning mainstream medicine in favour of the 19th century Terrain Theory and “viruses do not exist” quackery. People like Stefan Lanka, Andrew Kaufman, Tom Cowan, Sam Bailey etc. These people have seduced others in the alternative media without a medical or scientific background but who also have books to sell and websites to fund to support their spurious 19th century claims and that “viruses do not exist”. People like David Icke, Jon Rappaport, Mike Adams etc. They keep appearing on each others platforms, including Alex Jones Infowars, and keep quoting each other and operate in an echo chamber of lies and deceit to illicit money from the gullible. Facts are facts and viruses have been proved to exist. These people may have interesting things to say on Covid, lockdowns, masks, vaccines, global warming, controlling the masses and many other subjects but on “viruses not existing” they are totally wrong, out of date and have been proved to be wrong. You may be a follower of these people and want to believe they are right 100% of the time but on “viruses not existing” they are just plain wrong, out of date and have been proved to be wrong.

I have studied virology and it is an absolutely fascinating subject and the existence of viruses is beyond doubt. I don't think that David Icke has been debunked because as I have said before they are theories and abstract concepts which is impossible to counter with facts, only with opinions even if it is from a so-called expert. I don't trust any experts particularly the one's you mentioned but you don't have to be much of an expert to know that viruses exist.

They can come from anywhere. It is just a precaution. Antibiotics and steroids, if used, are also in the mock control.

They stop bacteria and keep the cell alive.

You're talking rubbish. No-one has "established" anything of the sort. The control ALWAYS uses the same ingredients other than the virus or it wouldn't be a control.

Virus sample and cell culture are the same thing as a virus is only evident when attached to a cell. The lab sends out the cell with the virus in a medium for the experiment. The lab also sends out the mock control cell in exactly the same medium.

Judy Mikovits, Mike Yeadon and Andrew Wakefield are 3 who come to mind who understand that viruses exist and are certainly NOT promoting the mass murdering pharmaceutical industry narrative.

Virology is a complex subject that is based on facts. The best people to call out misinformation on viruses are experts in their field. David Icke normally doesn't deal in facts he deals in theories and abstract concepts and is therefore difficult to contradict with facts. The only thing I disagree with David is his disappointing stance that "viruses do not exist" which has been totally debunked.

As far as ingredients in the medium for transporting and keeping cells alive then antibiotics and steroids in small doses are benign and have no effect on the result of the experiment and the mock infection control.

Yes they are. And as they are in the experiment AND the control they have little effect on the result of the experiment which shows the cytopathic effects studied are from the virus NOT the medium.

These benign ingredients have been used in millions of experiments on human cells with a virus AND in the mock controls on human cells without the virus. The same medium is used in the experiment AND the control and then observed showing beyond doubt that it is the virus and not the medium or anything else causing the cytopathic effects.

I clearly stated it was an "economic attack". It is a much more plausible theory than "viruses not existing". Ron Unz has done some sterling work with a lot of circumstantial evidence to show that it was the Yanks that probably done it. https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/

As an old socialist I can hardly be called right wing. I have mentioned on here many times that the most likely source of the virus is a US lab and it was used as an economic attack on China by rogue elements of the US Deep State and they didn't bank on it spreading worldwide. https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/ The U.S. operates over 200 military biological laboratories worldwide who can release viruses whenever they like and yet you and people like you don't care because you are wedded to a 19th century theory that "viruses do not exist". https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-21/U-S-deployed-over-200-military-biological-laboratories-worldwide-QFtLkqhuVy/index.html

A very quick internet search produces the ingredients. "In general terms, cultured cells require a sterile environment and a supply of nutrients for growth. In addition, the culture environment should be stable in terms of pH and temperature. Over the last 60 years, various defined basal media types have been developed and are now available commercially. Originally, balanced salt solutions were used to maintain contractility of mammalian heart tissue and Tyrode’s salt solution was designed for use in work with primary mammalian cells. These founding formulations have since been modified and enriched with amino acids, vitamins, fatty acids and lipids so that modern culture media are suitable for supporting the growth of a wide range of cell types. The precise media formulations have often been derived by optimizing the concentrations of every constituent. Examples of the different media and their uses are given below:" https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/GB/en/technical-documents/technical-article/cell-culture-and-cell-culture-analysis/mammalian-cell-culture/the-cell-environment

Dr Sam Bailey is another one who has a book about viruses not existing to sell to the gullible. It appears to be more profitable to be a quack than a real doctor these days. https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/02/10/how-quacks-become-millionaires-5g-covid-doctor-will-sell-supplements-15336 Many of her claims are not supported by evidence and have been totally debunked by real scientists who have shown real evidence to debunk her claims. She is a GP from New Zealand who appears to have little understanding of modern virology. I don't believe in censorship if no laws are broken. Her wild claims have been debunked on this website. https://blog.waikato.ac.nz/bioblog/2021/04/sam-bailey-on-isolating-viruses-and-why-she-is-wrong/

They blocked it because it was misinformation as described by this eminent scientist in New Zealand. https://blog.waikato.ac.nz/bioblog/2021/04/sam-bailey-on-isolating-viruses-and-why-she-is-wrong/

Sam Bailey is another joke internet personality who has been exposed by her peers back in New Zealand. "sam bailey on isolating viruses, and why she is wrong" https://blog.waikato.ac.nz/bioblog/2021/04/sam-bailey-on-isolating-viruses-and-why-she-is-wrong/

Wrong treatments and dangerous vaccines have nothing to do with viruses existing.

Scientists have shown the proof that viruses exist but you choose to ignore it. My patience is wearing thin and am only giving back what you have been throwing at me. If you can't take it don't give it. You are the one who keeps bringing up Lanka who is an absolute laughing stock. This thread is all about David Icke saying that viruses do not exist. David has been hoodwinked by Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan who have divided the alternative media and the fight against this tyranny. I have never disagreed with David before but he will probably live to regret that he ever listened to Lanka, Kaufman and Cowan and their disproved theory that viruses do not exist.

You're the one with shit for brains. Everything anyone needs to know is detailed in the scientific papers. Viruses have been proved to exist. "Lanka is either really bad at culturing cells himself and is too stupid to realize what he is doing wrong, or he is lying for clout. Either way, debunked.”

Scientific papers don't need to go in to every minute detail because the normal people who read them are happy to accept that a mock control was done in the knowledge that the exact same ingredients are used as the experiment other than the virus is missing from the mock control. The abnormal people like you are not catered for who want to have every step by step detailed and each ingredient listed. It is not necessary. Science papers are there for knowledgeable people, not children. The liquid suspensions used are nutrients and antibiotics and are exactly the same for the experiment and the mock control. Laboratories who provide the living cells for experimentation list the ingredients of the liquid suspensions for cell culture on their websites.