GeoffB

Because there is a huge amount of data on there and it is easier to show it in graph form as in the BBC article. I could just as easily have used this graph which you liked when it was posted by oddsnsods. The graph is from In This Together who states "It was the gross exaggeration of the threat posed by a low mortality respiratory illness, comparable to influenza." Therefore he is admitting that it is a virus.

Your article confirms the existence of a pandemic and therefore the virus.

If you look at the statistics the death rate in the UK was on a steady decline until 2020. Something killed those people. Yes some deaths for flu were erroneously given as Covid. Yes some deaths were attributed to Covid when they shouldn't have been. But the number of deaths and the new nature of those deaths (“I don’t know what it is, but I know that I have never seen it before. People are dying of a disease we don’t understand,.” Dr Cameron Kyle-Sidell) indicates that the virus is real but not particularly deadly enough for draconian measures and mass vaccinations.

Glad to see that you agree that viruses exist.

Yes we know all that but this thread is about whether the virus exists or not.

I quoted the BBC because it had the ONS figures in there to show the spike in excess deaths which proves something happened in 2020 which killed all those people and the most likely cause is the virus. The BBC article was in simple terms so that a simpleton would understand it. Of course I don't trust the BBC but I have some trust in the ONS figures.

Yes the virus is real but not particularly deadly and yes there is a hidden agenda which is detailed by David Icke who is right on most things but not right when he states there is no virus.

That's total rubbish. The excess all cause mortality figures show you that something happened in 2020 to cause all those extra deaths. In med school you are taught "if you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras". With weapons labs around the world researching "gain of function" the most logical answer is that the virus is real.

As a fan of David Icke for many years the answer is NO but I believe David is wrong that viruses do not exist.

This thread is all about David Icke's claim that there is no virus so we don't need another thread on whether the virus exists or not as this thread covers it. We all agree that the virus (whether it exists or not) is not particularly deadly but is being used as an excuse to manipulate humanity for nefarious means. So to get back to whether the virus exists or not why do those on here rather believe a handful of people who have books to sell (some of whom have no virus expertise) that the virus doesn't exist than the millions of doctors, scientists, virologists, epidemiologists and various other experts who all agree that viruses do exist and that SARS-CoV-2 is real? (I know all about viruses not being isolated, Koch's Postulates, exosomes etc. etc. so don't even go there).

In a civilized society death rates fall each year as the country improves it's wealth and health. If you are admitting that deaths have shot up to levels not seen for 20 years something drastic must have happened. All I’m trying to show is that the excess deaths are caused by SARS-CoV-2. So many people on here are convinced that this virus and all other viruses do not exist which is a very fringe view. The excess deaths were caused by something so why not a manufactured virus as a bioweapon and vaccines which can also be used as a bioweapon? My own personal view is that the virus was probably created by the US and released in China to disrupt their economy but the US didn’t expect it to end up worldwide, this is the Chinese governments view also. Therefore excess deaths in the UK is an indication of the existence of the virus which is not particularly deadly but the manufactured fear has been used to bring in draconian measures of control. What do you think caused the excess deaths mentioned in the BBC article which quotes ONS figures if it wasn't down to the virus?

According to figures from the ONS "The Covid pandemic has caused excess deaths to rise to their highest level in the UK since World War Two." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55631693

"Using the most up-to-date data we have available, the number of deaths from the week ending 13 March 2020 up to 4 June 2021 was 764,444 in England and Wales. Of the deaths registered by 4 June 2021, 140,185 (18.3%) mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate. During this period, the number of excess deaths above the five-year average was 103,857 deaths." https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending4june2021 A question to all you people who believe SARS-CoV-2 virus does not exist. In England and Wales alone there were 103,857 "excess" deaths above the 5 year average. What was the main cause for the majority of these deaths? (I concede that unnecessary lockdowns have killed many people but nowhere near this amount).

No virus has ever been isolated and no virus ever adheres to Koch's Postulates which were written before viruses were discovered. This doesn't mean that SARS-CoV-2 doesn't exist. It doesn't mean the virus for the common cold doesn't exist. Why would you rather believe the Naturopath you linked to than the thousands upon thousands of medical, science, virology, epidemiology experts?

As a fully paid up member of the David Icke fan club yes I did. I agree with 99% of what David has written and is now saying but NOT that the SARS-CoV-2 virus does not exist.

Some are but the vast majority are caused by SARS-CoV-2 which like every other virus under the sun is difficult to isolate and like all other viruses does not conform to Koch's Postulates. David Icke and some of his followers have been seduced by Kaufman et al who are snake oil salesmen with books to sell to the gullible.

At the beginning of 2020 I too thought there was no virus and they were just redesignating deaths from flu, pneumonia etc. as Covid. However, after a number of months the mortality figures from all causes increased to be the worst for many years. Even when you adjust the figures for population changes the UK all mortality figures are the worst since 2008. Something was killing those people even though they were elderly and many with comorbidities. Yes lockdown and fear would have caused many deaths but not the numbers we have seen. Therefore it is obvious that there is a virus which is similar to a bad flu season. What has been weaponised by the Global Cult is the fear to bring in draconian measures. Covid is not particularly deadly. Before the Covid era the average age at death was 82. Now during the Covid era it is still around 82. With David Icke and others insisting that there is no virus shows a lack of understanding of mortality figures. Why on earth would the Global Cult NOT release a new virus to bring in a "reset"? For the Global Cult to just rely on a hoax is absolutely ridiculous when they have many "real" viruses they can choose from. Not having a real virus would risk being detected by the sheer number of doctors, scientists, virologists, epidemiologists etc. etc. With a real virus it is easier to control the media. If the Global Cult want a total reset why has Sweden, Florida, Texas etc. etc. taken a different path to lockdowns? I was in full agreement with David Ickes dot connecting video today apart from his notion that the virus is not real because the all cause mortality figures are much higher than previous years so it must be real. And his failure to explain why countries and states like Sweden, Florida and Texas are NOT adhering to the Global Cults agenda of lockdowns. I also agree with David that it is the vaccine which could end up being more dangerous than Covid.

SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated in the same way that all other viruses for the past 150 years have been isolated which is not a particularly satisfactory method. Therefore to some it is proof that viruses do not exist. We then get in to the realms of Germ Theory v Terrain Theory. Yes the CDC is a totally corrupt organisation and their failings should be exposed. However, if you are trying to convince medical, scientific, virology and epidemiology experts that 150 years of science and medicine has been wrong for the past 150 years they are going to dismiss you out of hand. The sensible approach is to agree that SARS-CoV-2 exists and argue that it and the Global Cult's response to it is to subjugate humanity. This was David Icke's approach in 2009 when he said the Global Cult will deliberately expose humanity to a man made virus. David Icke has made a mistake now by promoting the very fringe idea that SARS-CoV-2 does not exist and by extension no other virus exists and has brought ridicule on the anti-lockdown and anti-Global Cult movement.

You probably mean "The Contagion Myth" by Cowan and Sally Fallon Morell 2020. The Nature Institute did a long and detailed analysis of the book and concluded that they were "grossly distorting scientific findings of others". https://www.natureinstitute.org/article/craig-holdrege-and-jon-mcalice/some-comments-on-the-contagion-myth

Ok, I acknowledge that there is a fringe belief among some academics which blows a hole through the whole concept of Germ Theory and Virology. The main proponents are Dr Andrew Kaufman and through him Dr Sam Bailey. Here is a recent video of them discussing it on 8th June 2021. https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/Odysee-Hunting-Viruses-With-Andy-Kaufmann-1-comp:7?r=Hi235fbeSxXgEvHPARxCiew2F8RbaKHc Basically they are saying it is and always has been impossible to isolate ANY virus and reinfect another host fulfilling Koch’s Postulates and viruses and germs don’t exist. Therefore do we believe the vast majority of the scientific community that ANY virus does exist or do we believe Kaufman (a psychiatrist) or Bailey (a NZ GP) that NO virus of any kind exists? I appreciate that the scientific community and Big Pharma has a lot to lose if they admit that the “emperor has no clothes” but decades and decades of scientific and medical knowledge would have to be rewritten. Although I despise Big Pharma and the whole Covid hysteria I am keeping an open mind but still tend towards SARS-CoV-2 virus being real and made in a lab possibly to be used by the US against China. I would repeat that David Icke said in 2009 that the Global Elite would release a virus against the general population. He now, however, thanks to Kaufman, believes that the virus does not exist and something else is harming people, it can't be flu because flu is a virus and viruses do not exist. David would have been better off sticking with his 2009 notion that the virus was deliberately released to harm and change the world to the Global Elites advantage.

"The virus that causes COVID-19 exists and was identified and isolated multiple times by independent research groups". https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/the-virus-that-causes-covid-19-exists-and-was-identified-and-isolated-multiple-times-by-independent-research-groups/

"SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was isolated in the laboratory and is available for research by the scientific and medical community." CDC 29th December 2020. (Unless they are lying of course)? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/grows-virus-cell-culture.html

I was using SARS-CoV-1 as an example of any virus. It appears some people on here believe there is no such thing as a virus. This is a stance that even David Icke has not taken because in his book Human Race Get Off Your Knees on page 348 he clearly states "This is why when a new disease comes along which the immune system isn't programmed to read, people can 'drop like flies' because they have no protection. This happened when smallpox (variola virus) was introduced by Europeans to the then smallpox-free Native American population". So if David Icke believes viruses exist why can't some of his followers? On David's website there is a video advertising his latest book Perceptions Of A Renegade Mind where in 2009 he states "Stage one you create a problem, it could be a manufactured virus". So again David admits the existence of viruses. He may not believe that SARS-CoV-2 exists because it has not yet been isolated but for some of his followers to actually believe that any virus does not exist is taking a very extreme view and opening themselves up to ridicule.

So you believe that no viruses exist not just SARS-Cov-2?

For all my fellow David Icke fans some of who believe the virus does not exist due to it not being isolated and it doesn't follow Koch's Postulate theory, do you believe that any virus exists particularly Sars-Cov-1? Perhaps you should reply after doing some research on the subject because as David often states "Don't take my word for it do your own research and come to your own conclusions". Here is a good place to start. https://swprs.org/on-the-origin-of-sars-coronavirus-2/