9/11 eyewitness plants, the vid Google censored!

[teslafire]

More evidence of TV fakery:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/92.html

The Video Google Censored
Google took this video down after three days and then when I attempted to post it to YouTube it was rejected.

This video is an important companion piece to the video that I call "Inside Job" (see the Brasscheck TV archive.)

"Inside Job" shows that thousands of eye witnesses and millions of live TV viewers heard and heard about MULTIPLE explosions in the Twin Towers that preceded their sudden and inexplicable collapse.

"The 9/11 Solution" shows that even as the World Trade Center was burning and immediately after the collapses, a stream of disinformation laying down the key official 9/11 myths was being actively being put in place via the US mass media (i.e. the impact of the planes weakened the structures, the "intense" fires caused the collapses, Bin Laden was the only possible suspect.)

[freedomnonfighter]

Ah yes, I saw that while it was still up.

Very important to see, as this is the very first phase of the all the conditioning and mind control via control/creation/repetition of certain "information" (in-formation)



More evidence of bombs in the buildings:
The day of the media is all about hyping explosions and bombs.
Afterwards, it's all those 'conspiracy theorists' creating such lies!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw

[ilponn]

i was a enginner in the unclear industry and coal fired power stations the heat in one boiler is over 540c 1000f and these boilers run 24 hours a day 7 days a week 356 days a year and that still does not weaken steel i repaired these boilers and nuclear power stations. if you dont belive me here is a link to the info of what they push out.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_plant#Feedwater_heating_and_deae ration




the american government have lied to us all over the world and so does the uk goverment

[matrixcutter]

That typo tickled me, but that is important info.

[irie_dave]

Ah yes, I saw that while it was still up.

Very important to see, as this is the very first phase of the all the conditioning and mind control via control/creation/repetition of certain "information" (in-formation)



More evidence of bombs in the buildings:
The day of the media is all about hyping explosions and bombs.
Afterwards, it's all those 'conspiracy theorists' creating such lies!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw

So there were no bombs in the buildings & no explosions happened? Go watch the video that HBO censored of a bomb going off in building 7, that they cut out right before it happened in the unedited footage. They don't want us to think there were bombs there they want us to think it came down due to damage & fire.

[john white]

LOL! Your lapping up the b/s this week Tesla!

[freedomnonfighter]

So there were no bombs in the buildings & no explosions happened?
Who said that?? :confused:

[irie_dave]

Who said that?? :confused:

Oh whoops I thought you were saying that the explosions & all the bombs going off was part of the 'tv fakery', to distract us from the energy beams or whatever.

[teslafire]

LOL! Your lapping up the b/s this week Tesla!
Does this guy sound more like a disinfo agent as time goes on or what?

Or is it out of sheer boredom that he decides to attack and distract?

Like I said in another thread, I know REAL PEOPLE who were literally next door to the WTC that morning who saw NO PLANES and heard several explosions.

Anyways....

I've always wondered why there were so many helicopters flying over the towers when they were burning.

You can see them clearly here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2939164701791209176

[matrixcutter]

I've always wondered why there were so many helicopters flying over the towers when they were burning.

You can see them clearly here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2939164701791209176
Why do you think they were there?

I seem to remember at the time thinking that they were going to rescue people.

[teslafire]

Ah yes, why didn't I think of that!

Those choppers were there to help, of course, it all makes sense now.

I probably didn't hear about it in the mainstream press because those folks are usually too modest to report any type of rescue effort that makes the government look good.

http://www.september11news.com/Sept14BushFiremanBobBeck.jpg

/sarcasm

Two curiousities about the helicopters:

1. There are explosions seconds after a chopper flies overhead

2. In the same time-sync and similar angle, you can see helicopters in some video footage but not in some of the network footage (gives more creedence to the machinery necessary for the No planes theory)

[narcolepticwatchman]

LOL! Your lapping up the b/s this week Tesla!

Sounding more and more like a disinfo agent with every comment. Note that he is also a mega poster on almost every 9/11 forum going. Shit stinks big time.

Mr White, if you think that the video posted there is genuine, non-scripted and not the least bit dodgy, then i'm afraid for your sanity.

You never comment on the content of these videos yet you resort to childish name calling or petulant insults. All this from a guy who preaches on other threads like an Icke disciple. What is the point in posting shit like that above at all? What can possibly be gained from it other than to try and undermine tesla.......with absolutley no basis for your attempt at doing so either.

Posting stupid comments like that above, to me, shows you up for who you really are.

The fact is, I don't think you have any counter arguments against these videos at all which begs the question. If you are as open minded to truth as you say you are, what the hell are you trying to defend?

[montag]

Like I said in another thread, I know REAL PEOPLE who were literally next door to the WTC that morning who saw NO PLANES
You know I live under the flight path near the airport and when a 737 goes over your head at a thousand feet you definitely know about it, is there any sound recordings of the jet's that supposedly hit the towers?

[dondaz]

The Video Google Censored
Google took this video down after three days and then when I attempted to post it to YouTube it was rejected.

I started a thread six months ago linking to the same video on google, posted 1 March 2007: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2792830342831749576&hl=en-GB

Why would google take it down after three days when the one I linked to is still up there six months later?

Very strange?

Here's the thread I started in March: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1746

LOL! Your lapping up the b/s this week Tesla!

Does this guy sound more like a disinfo agent as time goes on or what?

Disinfo? Where is the disinfo here?

LOL! Your lapping up the b/s this week Tesla!

Sounding more and more like a disinfo agent with every comment. Note that he is also a mega poster on almost every 9/11 forum going. Shit stinks big time.

Where's the disinfo here?

Posting stupid comments like that above, to me, shows you up for who you really are.

Who is he really? Be interesting to see the evidence to back up your claims that JW is a dis-info agent?

[teslafire]

You know I live under the flight path near the airport and when a 737 goes over your head at a thousand feet you definitely know about it, is there any sound recordings of the jet's that supposedly hit the towers?

The only one I know of is the street level shot of a plane hitting the second tower, taken by the French documentarians whom September Clues alleges as plants.

[matrixcutter]

Ah yes, why didn't I think of that!

Those choppers were there to help, of course, it all makes sense now.

I probably didn't hear about it in the mainstream press because those folks are usually too modest to report any type of rescue effort that makes the government look good.

http://www.september11news.com/Sept14BushFiremanBobBeck.jpg

/sarcasm

Two curiousities about the helicopters:

1. There are explosions seconds after a chopper flies overhead

2. In the same time-sync and similar angle, you can see helicopters in some video footage but not in some of the network footage (gives more creedence to the machinery necessary for the No planes theory)
My post was editted because the moderator called limelady has obviously got something against me.

She assumed I was insulting you, which I clearly wasn't.

I also wasn't saying that I still believe the helicopters were there to rescue people.

[teslafire]

I didn't know that there was another version on google vid, thanks for linking that.

Disinfo? Where is the disinfo here?

He is disavowing the evidence presented in '9/11 solution' and 'September Clues' without direct debate of the facts, only ancillary strawman arguments and vapid insults.

I don't care if he is disinfo agent or not, he is acting like one.

[teslafire]

My post was editted because the moderator called limelady has obviously got something against me.
I think she did that because I reported your post as it was calling me a "naive manchild".

[matrixcutter]

I think she did that because I reported your post as it was calling me a "naive manchild".
No, I was calling myself in 2001 a naive manchild. I thought that was pretty clear.

[teslafire]

No, it wasn't clear as you made no mention of yourself.

But, lets get over it.

[matrixcutter]

No, it wasn't clear as you made no mention of yourself.
My previous sentence was "I seem to remember at the time thinking that they were going to rescue people." Maybe overall it was ambiguous.

But, lets get over it.
OK

So what do you make of the helicopters?
(Got there in the end.)

[john white]

Mr White, if you think that the video posted there is genuine, non-scripted and not the least bit dodgy, then i'm afraid for your sanity.


Yer what? Course its dodgy as heck. Got nothing to do with evidence for No-Planes though, cointelpro op would be running anyway. Stolen Evidence Fallacy

That's becuase there isnt any evidence for no-planes that stands scrutiny. Its all pwned B/S, but believe it if you want, thats your choice. I'm not going to aruge it becuase everyone could easily go and find that out for themselves if they could be bothered to and NPT'ers do anything but: they coudlnt be NPT'ers if they did. Period. But if checking and establishing truth aint important, enjoy the belief system

And the B/S Tesla is busy eating on this thread is the "goggle banned me, I must be spreading important Troof!" sob story which is, frankly, made up to get attention, and its very effective with people attracted to that kind of thing

Like I said in another thread, I know REAL PEOPLE who were literally next door to the WTC that morning who saw NO PLANES and heard several explosions.


So they didnt see the Planes. So what? Being "right next to" the WTC was actually a really bad place to see the planes from: and not everyone would have been able to see the planes anyway: potential eye witnesses account for a small % of the population of NYC that day: but still a VAST number of people, particularily those over the River

I encourage people to do some thinking about the fundamental major problems that have to be overcome before NPT could be even remotely credible: starting with working out what they are for themselves. Anyone doesnt like that: oh well

Sounding more and more like a disinfo agent with every comment. Note that he is also a mega poster on almost every 9/11 forum going. Shit stinks big time.

What like ONE forum? Yeah right. Make-stuff-up-world is contagious huh Tesla?

If I'm "disinfo" I don't see why you should be giving a damn. Surely you should have me on IGNORE?

[john white]

Oh yeah:

He is disavowing the evidence presented in '9/11 solution' and 'September Clues' without direct debate of the facts

I'm waiting for you to start discussing the "evidence": all you've said so far is "September Cloos September Cloos Oh Yeah Groovy Baby Believe it believe it Wow What do you mean its crap? DISINFO SHILL!"

[albie]

So there were no bombs in the buildings & no explosions happened? Go watch the video that HBO censored of a bomb going off in building 7, that they cut out right before it happened in the unedited footage. They don't want us to think there were bombs there they want us to think it came down due to damage & fire.

How can we watch it if it is censored, Grasshopper?

[albie]

Could transformers or other electrical equipment explain some of what the firemen saw and heard? What about an acre of concrete floor slamming into another? Would steel bolts snapping under tremendous tension make a pop or explosive sound? Assuming the towers weren't in the vacuum of space, we can be fairly safe to say the things I mentioned are good candidates to explain what the firemen heard. Even they think so...

http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm

Read all this then tell me how sure you are about bombs.

[teslafire]

Yer what? Course its dodgy as heck. Got nothing to do with evidence for No-Planes though, cointelpro op would be running anyway. Stolen Evidence Fallacy

That's becuase there isnt any evidence for no-planes that stands scrutiny. Its all pwned B/S, but believe it if you want, thats your choice. I'm not going to aruge it becuase everyone could easily go and find that out for themselves if they could be bothered to and NPT'ers do anything but: they coudlnt be NPT'ers if they did. Period. But if checking and establishing truth aint important, enjoy the belief system

Wow...you don't want to debate even one of the anomalies because you have nothing.

People here give considerate intelligent opinions and point to a shot that shows a plane come out the other side of the building and then see a live TV shot fade to black only to come back online.

And all you have is 'its bs'.

I'd say you were an ostrich with your head on the sand if I didn't know you better..and because I do, unfortunately, I know that you simply get off by crafting other people's opinions, this is what you are attempting to do.

You have said several times that this idea isn't worth your time and yet here you are continually on these threads only here to mudsling and troll.

And the B/S Tesla is busy eating on this thread is the "goggle banned me, I must be spreading important Troof!" sob story which is, frankly, made up to get attention, and its very effective with people attracted to that kind of thing

And has since been corrected but again another sidewalk.

But that's not the BS you initially commented on in this thread, at first it was just 'point and laugh' at anything that supports no planes theory.

So they didnt see the Planes. So what? Being "right next to" the WTC was actually a really bad place to see the planes from: and not everyone would have been able to see the planes anyway: potential eye witnesses account for a small % of the population of NYC that day: but still a VAST number of people, particularily those over the River

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to ask you to cite those sources.

I encourage people to do some thinking about the fundamental major problems that have to be overcome before NPT could be even remotely credible: starting with working out what they are for themselves. Anyone doesnt like that: oh well

I encourage people to ignore John White as he is condescending, sanctimonious bully, and an extremely poor debater.

Watch the videos, see the evidence, then come up with your own opinion...

Don't listen to this character try to dissuade from even looking at the evidence.

What like ONE forum? Yeah right. Make-stuff-up-world is contagious huh Tesla?

Speaking from experience?

If I'm "disinfo" I don't see why you should be giving a damn. Surely you should have me on IGNORE?

I don't care about what you are or are not.

I care about your intent to disrupt discussions and harass posters for their thoughts and explorations.

[dave52]

http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm

Read all this then tell me how sure you are about bombs.

Unless I'm missing something, there's no mention of the Pentagon or Shanksville on that site. I don't believe it touches he no-plane thing either... Interesting...

It's academic how the towers were brought down if you don't believe they used planes.

[john white]

Wow...you don't want to debate even one of the anomalies because you have nothing.

Sure. Tell yourself that. LOL!


You have said several times that this idea isn't worth your time and yet here you are continually on these threads only here to mudsling and troll.


Only becuase your acting like such a Queen over it what with PM's to me, PM's to moderators, and a load of bullshit allegations about me being an "agent": you just want some drama, which is why you havnt produced Jack in terms of reasoned argument. Yes I'm going to respond when your making such concerted efforts to attract me into this, but dont think that means I'm the least bit interested in wasting energy enlightening the self-deluded: life is too short

Check yourself Tesla, your off over the edge.

Your issue to deal with IMVHO

[teslafire]

I don't know what the guy above me wrote as he is on ignore. ;)

I have an idea its something completely irrelevant and misleading to the debate.

Here is what this thread is about:

Fake eyewitnesses to seed the lie.

Take a look at this 'NY'ers fight back' clip given to the public two days after the towers fell, its very revealing.

Spot the propaganda:

http://mediastorm.org/0003.htm

[narcolepticwatchman]

Unless I'm missing something, there's no mention of the Pentagon or Shanksville on that site. I don't believe it touches he no-plane thing either... Interesting...

It's academic how the towers were brought down if you don't believe they used planes.

Yes, very interesting. To me it just shows the plan. Fabricate a false counter movement headed by loose change which can be easily debunked by such sites, which when people investigate the story they come to the conclusion that it is all bull, never touching upon NPT in the process and subsequently crushes the movement.

The opposition to NPT is VIOLENT.......there is so much effort going into trying to undermine it with no basis other than mudslinging......oh and the eyewitnesses. That is the main argument you get from shills like John White when it is quite clear that there are loads of instances of faked eyewitnesses being brought to light every day.

'people by the river saw planes' ..........damn right they did, but they were nowhere near the towers. Theres 1 (possibly 2? in this shot)

2 Planes ? - YouTube

[john white]

That is the main argument you get from shills like John White

More bullshit fear and delusion

What a laugh, yeah conspiraloonery is a real "danger" to the PTB

"Its all about the eyewitnesses"

what a sad load of crap

Its all about:

FAKING EVERY IMAGE OF A PLANE: EVERY ONE

FAKING EVERY SOUND OF A PLANE: EVERY ONE

FAKING ALL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF A PLANE

FAKING THE FIREBALL

"PLANE" SHAPED HOLES BLOWN IN BUILDINGS WITH SHAPED CHARGES FROM THE OUTSIDE

DOCTORED FOOTAGE (both through actually manipulation of the image and psychological predicitive "spin") BEING PUT OUT AS "PROOF" BY CON MERCHANTS SUCKING IN THE GULLABLE

Thats YOU, obviously Narcolopteic Watchman, and recently Tesla now hes got the brain fever

But hey, wail on me and call me whatever you like etc just becuase I havnt abandonned reason for illusion BY CHOICE and am doing you the favour of telling you where your at

Its OK, I dont expect gratitude, still one day down the line you WILL turn to yourself and say "Shit, whatever did I believe that pile of jizz for? John White might have been a chunt, but he was right".

Thats just a flat fact: thats just how it is

[narcolepticwatchman]

More bullshit fear and delusion

What a laugh, yeah conspiraloonery is a real "danger" to the PTB

"Its all about the eyewitnesses"

what a sad load of crap

Its all about:

FAKING EVERY IMAGE OF A PLANE: EVERY ONE

FAKING EVERY SOUND OF A PLANE: EVERY ONE

FAKING ALL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF A PLANE

FAKING THE FIREBALL

"PLANE" SHAPED HOLES BLOWN IN BUILDINGS WITH SHAPED CHARGES FROM THE OUTSIDE

DOCTORED FOOTAGE (both through actually manipulation of the image and psychological predicitive "spin") BEING PUT OUT AS "PROOF" BY CON MERCHANTS SUCKING IN THE GULLABLE

Thats YOU, obviously Narcolopteic Watchman, and recently Tesla now hes got the brain fever

But hey, wail on me and call me whatever you like etc just becuase I havnt abandonned reason for illusion BY CHOICE and am doing you the favour of telling you where your at

Its OK, I dont expect gratitude, still one day down the line you WILL turn to yourself and say "Shit, whatever did I believe that pile of jizz for? John White might have been a chunt, but he was right".

Thats just a flat fact: thats just how it is

one by one the plane images are being proven to be faked.....like hezerkani and the obvious discrepancies between the shots. Nose out, divebomber, missing wings, wrong colours, amazing central focus of a 500mph moving object, no planes sounds in some footage yet explosions or explosion sounds and no planes......its all there......you are the one in denial.

I have never said the fireball was not real

I have never once said there were shaped charges (but the light visible before the second strike may be a clue to what really happened there)

That is just flat out how it is.......youhave no argument bud. I have been through all of this before with you. I laid out a load of discrepancies on a previous thread and you bailed as usual.

You are not willing to discuss them. Why?

Instead you go on about witnesses and shit like the above rant.

I'll list a few again.

Obvious backgound tomfoolery with the towers in focus.......moving bridge, rotating towers, Empire State building switching sides, rapid scrolling of the horizon in the small section of background visible whilst the towers are in focus (this list will no doubt keep growing and your 'telephoto lens' thery just does not hold any water whatsoever)

Visible 'lens glare' (yeah right0 almost the exact size and shape of the plane seconds before the 2nd impact.

Missing helicopters from live shots despite them being visible in others (oh and just what were all those choppers doing there)

The 'blob' - C'mon now, i seriously want to see you defend that.

The discrepancies in flight speed between planes (as seen in september clues part 8)

The wipe out of all local news networks and the central command centre (same pictures on different networks)

The fake witnesses - especially the woman in chelsea who impossibly saw the 2nd impact ('another plane' - despite no mention of planes previously), the 'structural engineer' and the woman who sees and hears the impact both from her window and on TV despite there being no audible sound of the impact......but a supposed sound of a plane flying over her building.

The wescams and the denial of their usage by the camera man

The time dropiing from all the networks at 8.51

The fade to black on the nose out shot

contradictory flightpaths.

The lack of an official air crash investigation at ANY of the four sites.

The lack of names of any of the highjackers on ANY passenger manifest.

If you are gonna post on the thread, discuss the real issues.

i know why you don't back down and its the exact opposite reasons you stated in your previous post......you have been arguing against it for so long now that if you admit to the possibility of ONE instance of TV fakery, your whole position on he subject has been rendered untenable. Thats why you don't comment on 'the blob' or the fake witnesses.

Everyone is seeing you for what you are..........the only reason I can possibly come up with for you maintaining this position in light of the irrefutable examples given above is that you are on the payroll. I am not alone in my thoughts on that subject I can see.

[john white]

LOL! All illusions sold to you and bought by you

"its been proved fake!" repeated over and over again doesnt make illusion and deception true: but it does re-inforce the deception

Its not me whose not listening: and thats WHY its not worth the effort

I don't care what you believe: go on, believe it!

I'll just stick with truth: real truth, derived from the balance of all evidence

that's enough for me

Now, lets indulge you, for the sake of it:

one by one the plane images are being proven to be faked.....like hezerkani and the obvious discrepancies between the shots.

No, there not, the arguments here are incoherant

Nose out,

There is no "nose out". Social Service did fake one for september clues though. where is the promised peer review? Yeah right, bullshit

divebomber

? sorry not in the cult

missing wings

Tampered resolution and frame rate,

wrong colours

Yeah both Web fairy and Wood have spent a lot of time making colours "wrong"

amazing central focus of a 500mph moving object

Cameras are great

no planes sounds in some footage yet explosions or explosion sounds and no planes......its all there......you are the one in denial.

good grief, your a sap for a bit of jiggering around

I have never said the fireball was not real

no, but you are saying that 40,000 gallons of jet fuel was stored inside the towers ready to create the fireball. don't give me that bogus cruise jazz, that wont wash and you know it

I have never once said there were shaped charges (but the light visible before the second strike may be a clue to what really happened there)

which you dont spreak of becuase its yet another theory based on delusion, not evidence

That is just flat out how it is.......youhave no argument bud. I have been through all of this before with you. I laid out a load of discrepancies on a previous thread and you bailed as usual.

Claiming I bailed does not make it so: your the denier of basic fundamental realities here

You are not willing to discuss them. Why?

Boh!

Instead you go on about witnesses

no, you did that. Now you want to play a different game

and shit like the above rant.

All that gets your attention, when you can get past your paranoid delusion that I work for MI5 or something

I'll list a few again.

Oh make it good

Obvious backgound tomfoolery with the towers in focus.......moving bridge, rotating towers,

Zoom lenses and how they work. Period. Thats all

Empire State building switching sides

It doesnt

rapid scrolling of the horizon in the small section of background visible whilst the towers are in focus (this list will no doubt keep growing and your 'telephoto lens' thery just does not hold any water whatsoever)

Yes it does, becuase its the actual explanation

Visible 'lens glare' (yeah right almost the exact size and shape of the plane seconds before the 2nd impact.

A suggestion you believe

Missing helicopters from live shots despite them being visible in others (oh and just what were all those choppers doing there)

Good greif, again what a sucker you are for some careful, or should we say malicous editing

The 'blob' - C'mon now, i seriously want to see you defend that.

What "blob"? Again, not in the Cult

The discrepancies in flight speed between planes (as seen in september clues part 8)

bullshit analysis to be laughed at. but then, anyone whose got to part 8 of "cloos" who is still taking NPT seriously would believe anything

The wipe out of all local news networks and the central command centre (same pictures on different networks)

Gee thats how these local networks work

The fake witnesses - especially the woman in chelsea who impossibly saw the 2nd impact

what a laugh: a woman who claimed to see a plane is "impossible" but a woman who claimed not to see a plane is "possible". And the Chelsea location was actually perfect for seeing the second hit. Just another fact, dont let it spoil your day. You've been TOLD she couldnt, therefore she cant of. Get a map and draw some stright lines on it!

('another plane' - despite no mention of planes previously),

Oh no, she didnt get her thoguhts in proper order!

the 'structural engineer'

not proof of no planes: proof of CD: wake up there! Stolen evidence fallacy,. Having no real evidence of its own the NPT deceivers are knicking real evidence pointing in entirely different directions and incorporating it into the cult delusion

and the woman who sees and hears the impact both from her window and on TV despite there being no audible sound of the impact......

You believe there was no sound: but there was. and btw, you need to explain that sound as part of NPT

but a supposed sound of a plane flying over her building.

your belief system again. Thats actual sound of actual plane

The wescams and the denial of their usage by the camera man

Too funny! "Course its not!" "PROVES IT PROVES IT". Get more sense out of the peasants in Monty Python and the Holy Grail

The time dropiing from all the networks at 8.51

did you notice that big TV ariel thing on the roof of WTC2?

The fade to black on the nose out shot

there is no nose out.

contradictory flightpaths.

you getting into flightpaths now? Thats a fun departure

The lack of an official air crash investigation at ANY of the four sites.

The lack of names of any of the highjackers on ANY passenger manifest.

Stolen evidence: in no way does any of this support "no planes"

If you are gonna post on the thread, discuss the real issues.

Done it: way beyond the scope of the value of talking with you

i know why you don't back down

Thats "you believe you know"

and its the exact opposite reasons you stated in your previous post......you have been arguing against it for so long now that if you admit to the possibility of ONE instance of TV fakery,

not at all. TV fakery BY the NPT posse is now WELL EXPOSED. Sites like this one are about the only refuge NPT has left

your whole position on he subject has been rendered untenable.

Not to me it hasnt

Thats why you don't comment on 'the blob' or the fake witnesses.

Too busy laughing

Everyone is seeing you for what you are..........the only reason I can possibly come up with for you maintaining this position in light of the irrefutable examples given above is that you are on the payroll. I am not alone in my thoughts on that subject I can see.

I really dont give a shit mate. Knock yourself out.

I AM SATAN

See? so what?

[narcolepticwatchman]

That response is exactly what I would expect from you. A lot of words but no real answers. Once again you have cherry picked points to respond on and respond with nothing but garbage and conjecture.

Note to everyone else who is reading this........check how he has edited my quotes in his response in order to dodge the issue......as per usual.

[dave52]

Spot the propaganda:

http://mediastorm.org/0003.htm

That's a great find. I have no doubt whatsoever that every single person in that clip is an actor. It is such an obvious piece of propaganda it beggers belief that anyone would accept it as real, yet I suspect that 99% of the people who saw it thought it was. And that is what we're up against.

With regard to the people who get angry about the no-plane thing... It's either because they think that it will somehow jeapodise the "truth" movement (um, because the man in the street doesn't already think we're nut-jobs). Or it's just too far down the rabbit hole for them and they feel uncomfortable.

No plane at the Pentagon, people can handle that. They've seen the small hole, the pristene lawn, the lack of cctv. But the WTC, man that's a big leap, we've all seen it over and over again, it must be true right?

WRONG.

If there's one thing I've learnt over the years, it's that the TV can, has and will always lie. Unless you were actually stood there and watched the planes with your own eyes, you cannot trust what you are told.

[freedomnonfighter]

I'm open either way, really. Frankly I don't think it's the most important thing...

I agree there's a lot of faked photographs and even faked video,

and definately plants in the streets... it's all suspicious... but...

We all know 9/11 'was an Inside Job', that's what's important, is how I see it.

To fight and divide and get separated from each other over theories within theories doesn't really help us, as I see it. :)

[john white]

That response is exactly what I would expect from you. A lot of words but no real answers. Once again you have cherry picked points to respond on

What by a word by word response to everything you wrote? Yeah I can see how that works...

and respond with nothing but garbage and conjecture.

You were never going to think anything else

Note to everyone else who is reading this........check how he has edited my quotes in his response in order to dodge the issue......as per usual.

Yes, by the very cunning method of not missing out a single word :)

[limelady]

I've noticed the discussions on this thread are at times deteriorating into the 'personal', and I'd like to remind everybody (in case some of you have forgotten), that 9/11 truthers are all on the same side. :D

Having a differing view is fine, and of course healthy debate on the relevant issues is welcome. But please try and keep personal insults, and cheap shots about another's perceived intentions or personal integrity out of the debates, because this should not be a fight with each other, but rather a fight for the truth, whatever that "truth" may be. :)

On that score, I know that getting the truth out has been a long and hard struggle for some of you, and I feel a certain level of battle-wariness has now (understandably) set in, but please lets not become so hard-nosed that we cannot debate here without implying that others lack the credibility or personal credentials to be discussing this topic.

9-11 had a lasting impact on us all, so surely, that alone is all the eligibility one needs to voice an opinion on this topic? If we don't agree with another's opinion, unlike those who died in the towers (and elsewhere) that day, we are still fortunate enough to have the choice to walk away.

Thanks guys :)

[dave52]

lets not become so hard-nosed

Like the plane that managed to go right through the second tower..? :)

I think the reason us no-planers are digging in our heels on this one is due to the very scale of it. Yes, we all want the truth to come out and for the wider public to accept that 9/11 was an inside job, but that doesn't go far enough. If we stick to the "small group of people on the inside pulled it off" argument, only a small group of people will get prosecuted, and a great many number of people will walk free. That just isn't good enough.

Everyone should read this article (here's a taster)...

So now we need pretend justice for it. Cartoon villains like Silverstein and Bush who were really just the puppets to do the dirty work are on the front line to take the fall. When the acceptance of an inside job becomes mainstream, then the outrage levels will be so out of control that no one will care about wanting to know the deeper story. They'll just want justice and revenge for the bad guys.

As with WW2 and Nazism, the real designers keep their hands clean, paint themselves as the justice givers, and use the subsequent shock and outrage as the tool for moving on to the next scam, and building the next nightmare.

The main official story was never designed to last all that long. There's too many holes in it. Jut long enough to commit unspeakable atrocities in the phony "retaliation" which itself will then raise the horror and outrage level when the "truth" comes out.

Nazis Didn't Lose The War (http://www.911closeup.com/index.shtml?ID=91)

[limelady]

Yes I understand what you're saying dave, its just a pity though that the "truthers" have gotten themselves into two factions "the planers" and the "no planers".

After 6 years, there's is also (unfortunately) a lot of emotional investment (ego) involved in who's right and who's wrong.

The PTBs who monitor this situation must be chuckling their heads off about now, because realistically, unless you guys can show solidarity and all work together as a cohesive group TO GET TO THE TRUTH (through the many 'onion layers' still left to go) there's little chance of much progress forward in the near future, is there? :(

[dave52]

Wise words LimeLady, It's all cool. 99% of the truth campaign, even with our little disagreements, are all pulling (pushing?) in the same direction. I would point out that it tends not to be the no-planers who turn things into a mud-slinging competition, which in-turn hardens our position even more.

I have only become a no-planer in the last month, but I've been a 9/11 skeptic since late 2001, so I've gone through the ego/ disbelief stage for myself.

We all grow, everyday.

[nafenisr]

Quote:
The fade to black on the nose out shot

Quoteth the John White:

there is no nose out.
-------------------------

Um, yeah there is, dude. Methinks it's on the Sept. Clues vid. You've yet to raise a valid argument.

[nafenisr]

That response is exactly what I would expect from you. A lot of words but no real answers. Once again you have cherry picked points to respond on and respond with nothing but garbage and conjecture.

Note to everyone else who is reading this........check how he has edited my quotes in his response in order to dodge the issue......as per usual.

No shit. He's (John White) typical of this sort of personality (no, i'm not conjecturing that he's a "disinfo agent"), but he's that sort of a-hole that will argue a position for arguments' sake just to be the a-hole that he is. Unwilling to actually consider another side of an argument because he's like a 4 year old who has picked a side and will say whatever he thinks is "convincing enough" to say to try and sway others' opinions (even though his "arguments" are nothing but "comedic" insults that DO NOTHING to prove his position.).

[john white]

There's still no "nose out"

What there is:

Is a whole load of people being TOLD there's a nose out and accepting very carefully edited footage with frames removed and the resolution much reduced on (misplaced) trust becuase the "no Planes" theory manufacturers are deceptive and crafty fraudsters

There are two angles claimed to be "nose out" shots: both are an incandesant fireball within which is wreckage from the right hand engine and landing gear emerging from the other side of WTC2 following impact. The "September Clues" "analysis" purporting to match a shape to a "nose" of an airliner is out and out Fraud. Fake. Made up. Bullshit:

Proved by the lie of "social services" pledge to make that "evidence" available for peer review: anyone can check that, the claim is made in the film. Can we get the evidence to review? Course not. Its a Lie. As Phoney as the roswell alien autopsy. Doctored. Tampered with. Mickey Mouse

And that, "nafensir" is why I am such an "a-hole" for telling it like it is

Call me a cunt, I don't care:

There's still NO "nose out"

Thats fact

[john white]

That "valid" enough for you?

If you don't like it, get going to www.911researchers.com, the internet home of this hoax, and get "social Services" analysis for peer review. They'll be so happy to oblige you over there: if you dont mind getting called a child raping perp aiding shill just for asking

However, if you want the "easy life" just keep falling in with the "popularity" crowd

Take sidlittle for example: "popularity" is clearly far more important to him than truth

[gordonfreeman]

After reading some posts and scrolling through. God, what's with all of the negativity and arguments? John White, I respect you. Judging by the person who started this, he/she is ignorant, manipulated about the 9/11 Truth.

Well, you know that people will never agree with each other. Even they know the True thing about 9/11. But, instead most of them are debunking them.

Can't we all just get along? As the old saying goes.

[teslafire]

After reading some posts and scrolling through. God, what's with all of the negativity and arguments? John White, I respect you.

I've done nothing but conduct myself and my responses with earnestness and have made an effort to keep everything centered on facts rather than personalities and drama disputes and yet the initiator of the confrontational, competitive vibe is being praised for not being negative...unbelievable.

What's even funnier is Mr. White consciously misspelling "September Clues" to paint it as amateur, whilst obliviously commiting consistent grammatical and spelling errors.
Judging by the person who started this, he/she is ignorant, manipulated about the 9/11 Truth.

Uh huh, so you're saying that the videos linked in here have no eyewitness plants spewing propaganda?

Please be clear as to what you believe me to be ignorant about.

:)


Well, you know that people will never agree with each other. Even they know the True thing about 9/11. But, instead most of them are debunking them.

One group is asking people to look at the videos and evidence.

Another group is doing all it can to muddy the name of everything associated with the TV fakery theory.

Mr. White is not a debunker of facts, he is a character assassin with an ability to speak a mouth's full without actually saying anything. His reluctance to engage in honest debate and penchant of going straight into petty character assertions shows a stubborness similar to that of Christians unable to accept the fact that their saviour is only a sun god.

Can't we all just get along? As the old saying goes.

Can't we just deal with the facts and observations in a calm, thoughtful, logical manner?

[teslafire]

http://aycu25.webshots.com/image/29664/2004007342983496428_rs.jpg

So you're also saying that none of the eyewitnesses seem suspicious to you, meaning you agree that its possible that jetfuel brought down the towers and that a layman on the street is able to make the judgement moments after collapse?

[sensimillia]

What by a word by word response to everything you wrote? Yeah I can see how that works...



You were never going to think anything else



Yes, by the very cunning method of not missing out a single word :)

LOL, john you are killing me!:D keep up the excellent work, mate.:)

[dave52]

So you're also saying that none of the eyewitnesses seem suspicious to you, meaning you agree that its possible that jetfuel brought down the towers and that a layman on the street is able to make the judgement moments after collapse?

This is an important point. Regardless of the no-plane thing. There is definatley something fishy about a good number of the immediate "eye-witness" interviews. And this does throw up a lot of questions. It is unlikely that agents on the ground could gaurantee that a reporter would pick them out of the crowd for an interview. Therefore, it safe to assume that these interviews were lined up in advance. Now we find that Media complicity is not just a possibility, but is actually very, very probable. With that in mind, fake news feeds/footage is not so difficult to believe. This does not mean that planes didn't hit the towers, but it is hard to dismiss the tv fakery thing in its entirety.

It's like the moon-landings, there are varying degrees of belief.

1. We went to the moon just like NASA says.
2. We went to the moon but some of the footage/photos were faked.
3. We never went (thanks to Van Allen) and the whole thing was faked.

[john white]

So you're also saying that none of the eyewitnesses seem suspicious to you, meaning you agree that its possible that jetfuel brought down the towers and that a layman on the street is able to make the judgement moments after collapse?

No, I'm saying that "no brainer" evidence is attempted to be mutated in "no planer" evidence, in the same way that athiests try to steal "reason" from anyone else.

Of course some kind of Cointel operation was happening with people planting the "Planes brought down the towers becuase of the fire" story: that would have happened anyway: but the evidence supports Planes at the WTC. Massively. Overwhelmingly

How about focusing in one area for a moment?

I've made specific allegations, declaring the film "september clues" to be a blend of fraudulent and manipulated information, and calling out its creator "social services" as a liar who has made a grand sounding claim as part of hoodwinking the audience which he has not delivered on:

Namely: to make his "analysis" available for peer review

I've asked Killtown, Rick Seigal, Fred, and loads of other characters:

"Where is this data"?

Nada. Squit. Nothing back. etc

And why is that? Becuase either they KNOW its bullshit, or they dont want to know its bullshit!

IF you are so convinved about No Planes Theory Tesla:

Prove me wrong by getting that data out of them

[teslafire]

No, I'm saying that "no brainer" evidence is attempted to be mutated in "no planer" evidence, in the same way that athiests try to steal "reason" from anyone else.

Interesting analogy. A shitty one, but still interesting.
Wanna know why?

WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT GOD

We're arguing over a detail of a false flag whose implications are deeper than most people are understanding. This is akin to the Nazi's getting off with a show trial at Nuremberg. The conspiracy necessary to the No-planes theory indicates a much larger network of cons than Bush/Cheney.

Of course some kind of Cointel operation was happening with people planting the "Planes brought down the towers becuase of the fire" story: that would have happened anyway:

Oh okay, now you're saying its totally obvious and it would have happened anyways, but when I first introduced this thread you thought it was BS...do you not remember your first post on the thread?

Stop being a liar, Mr. White.

but the evidence supports Planes at the WTC. Massively. Overwhelmingly

You keep saying that.

How about focusing in one area for a moment?

Great, lets hear you backup your very qualified opinon on the video manipulation of a steady 500 mph handheld pan which defies the idea of perspective angle.

What are you credentials Mr. White?

Would you like to hear mine?

I've made specific allegations, declaring the film "september clues" to be a blend of fraudulent and manipulated information, and calling out its creator "social services" as a liar who has made a grand sounding claim as part of hoodwinking the audience which he has not delivered on:

You're all thesis and no support. Every argument you've had is a superficial sneer.

Namely: to make his "analysis" available for peer review

I've asked Killtown, Rick Seigal, Fred, and loads of other characters:

"Where is this data"?

Nada. Squit. Nothing back. etc

Its the fucking videos.

And why is that? Becuase either they KNOW its bullshit, or they dont want to know its bullshit!

No, you're bullshit, that's what they understand.

IF you are so convinved about No Planes Theory Tesla:

Prove me wrong by getting that data out of them

Excuse me...do you even know what you're rambling on about anymore?

What kind of data are you asking for?

You can corroborate all the video footage in september clues in a thousand other 9/11 documentaries. All September clues has done is slow down and highlight certain parts.

The burden of proof is on you to rebut the evidence already presented with contradicting video footage.

Stomp your foot once if you understand, twice if you need to go off in the corner and do some serious thinking.

[john white]

Honestly Tesla, that was weak even for your recent posting performance

You do know what "peer review" is, don't you?

If you did, you'd understand why claiming to make research available as in Social Services claimed analysis of the second "nose out" angle is a big thing: and failing to deliver shows the claim of the strength of the analysis is in itself fraudulent

But you don't want to know, Lets move along

Of course some kind of Cointel operation was happening with people planting the "Planes brought down the towers becuase of the fire" story: that would have happened anyway:

Oh okay, now you're saying its totally obvious and it would have happened anyways, but when I first introduced this thread you thought it was BS...do you not remember your first post on the thread?


I remember it, you clearly havnt read it. The claim that a guy talking about "planes weaking the steel" is only "proof" of No-Planes is bullshit, the same STILL applies with Planes. We both agree, after all, that Plane impacts did not bring the buildings down, and of course theres a cover story for that. Have you really become so hopelessly enmeshed that you are unable to discern the elementary and childishly obvious?

But I can see how this goes Tesla, for one reason or another these shysters have got you in their grip: only you really know why

Moving on, You challenged me on this:

Great, lets hear you backup your very qualified opinon on the video manipulation of a steady 500 mph handheld pan which defies the idea of perspective angle.

What are you credentials Mr. White?

Would you like to hear mine?


Sure Tesla, cards on the table, tell me how experianced you are:

BUT: if I produce a credible and reasonable explantion for that footage that does not "prove" TV Fakery, what then? Will you re-examine your views?

You give me that re-assurance and I'll solve your little "problem" for you. I know I can: you could to if you bothered yourself to think and ask the right questions

Or will you just ignore it and pretend it did'nt happen and keep supporting "evidence" in the shape of September Clues so laughable that it claims to "prove" an impact shot showing
"No Plane" when the plane was coming in from the opposite of the fucking building. Thats how pathetic this circus is

'Course you could just go "sod it! I don't care what that Cunt John White thinks I've got my own opinion and thats good enough for me".

I don't mind. Live and let live etc.

But you don't really want that, do you?

You want to be right, even if it means embracing a forged and bogus theory as Truth

[teslafire]

as in Social Services claimed analysis of the second "nose out" angle is a big thing

Uh huh...why don't you explain the importance of this to everyone...

I remember it, you clearly havnt read it.
???

I haven't watched it?

The claim that a guy talking about "planes weaking the steel" is only "proof" of No-Planes is bullshit, the same STILL applies with Planes.

Who said only?

It shows that there are actors who will say what they are told, meaning everything that this person said is potentially bullshit; even the existence of planes.

But I can see how this goes Tesla, for one reason or another these shysters have got you in their grip: only you really know why

More melodrama from wannabee guru White, lol.

Sure Tesla, cards on the table, tell me how experianced you are

I studied all aspects of filmmaking with a concentration in editing at the film school at NYU. I was mentored by Spike Lee's editor and post-production supervisor, Sam Pollard. While in school and shortly after I was an assitant editor on a couple of Frontline docs, and editor of numerous shorts. I've worked with CGI animators directly and have seen the magic of green screen first hand, from start to finish.

I'm no bigtime editor working on 200 million dollar action flicks, but I do understand the ins and outs of this technology.

BUT: if I produce a credible and reasonable explantion for that footage that does not "prove" TV Fakery, what then? Will you re-examine your views?

You can't. All you know how to do is slowdance around the facts.

But, go ahead and try...

EDITED

I agree.

I don't mind. Live and let live etc.

But you don't really want that, do you?

You want to be right, even if it means embracing a forged and bogus theory as Truth

Do you practice this shit in the mirror?

[john white]

Tesla, I am YOUR mirror

ROFL!

[john white]

Now onto business:

I studied all aspects of filmmaking with a concentration in editing at the film school at NYU. I was mentored by Spike Lee's editor and post-production supervisor, Sam Pollard. While in school and shortly after I was an assitant editor on a couple of Frontline docs, and editor of numerous shorts. I've worked with CGI animators directly and have seen the magic of green screen first hand, from start to finish.

I'm no bigtime editor working on 200 million dollar action flicks, but I do understand the ins and outs of this technology.


So with all your experiance, how easy would it be to manipulate real images to make them "appear" fake? ;)

[teslafire]

Now onto business:



So with all your experiance, how easy would it be to manipulate real images to make them "appear" fake? ;)

Very easy, Mr. White.

However, corroboration is the key term here.

REPEAT: All of the september clues footage is found footage and I challenge you to find video that proves september clues doctored their footage.

That's right instead of bullshitting along, go and find some video to back up your accusations.

[limelady]

Time out!

Please guys...this is going round in circles.

Can we change the energy in here a bit please?

Maybe for now you could agree to disagree?


Thanks :)

[john white]

how easy would it be to manipulate real images to make them "appear" fake?

Very easy, Mr. White.

However, corroboration is the key term here

No, its lack of imagination

Have you even asked the question that is begging of yourself?

Gosh, whats more credible? Every single image of a plane on 9/11 being a fake, or a few genuine images messed about with to sucker in the unwary?

Hmmmm....

You know the answer. Go away and admit it to yourself, you'll feel a lot better

REPEAT:

True, it is a repeat. after this post, I'm listenign to limelady, and you can stew in your juice, i've had my fill of your attitude for now

All of the september clues footage is found footage and I challenge you to find video that proves september clues doctored their footage.

Doh! Be no need to if "Social Services" wasnt a conman/woman/thing

PEER REVIEW THE DATA!

"September clues", although undoubtably the best effort at fooling the gullable, falls apart right there.

If you had peer review quality proof of "no Planes", wouldnt you be spreading it far and wide? Well?

So why isnt social services? Who IS social services? How does one contact "social services" etc.

So why isnt that happening?

Becuase its a fraud

That's right instead of bullshitting along, go and find some video to back up your accusations.

I've no need to Tesla, you've got your arse on backwards: the burden of proof is on you, and so far the only thing you've proved is your a sucker to a conman

[teslafire]

I think its fair to say that I'm no fan of Mr. White, but since the outset of my speculation of the No planes theory, he has unabashedly been disruptive, insulting, and has side-stepped every salient point...expectedly

He is determined, it seems, to dissuade people from this exploration with a stunning and unreasonable veracity (for a reason that remains ambiguous)...all I've done is state my personal opinion, relate facts and provide an understanding of them.

As a last note, to any lurkers...the media distributes the pictures, not individual people. I've yet to see a picture of the plane approaching Manhattan at that low altitude...seeing as it highly unorthodox, one would think it picture-worthy...

The rest of what the fellow above says has already been covered in this thread.

Have fun separating the drama from the facts.

:)

[sean]

Can we try and keep this hot topic on topic? Cool down the personal insults people.

Tesla, what's your view on John Lear, who i believe supports the holographic planes theory?

[irie_dave]

Yes I understand what you're saying dave, its just a pity though that the "truthers" have gotten themselves into two factions "the planers" and the "no planers".

After 6 years, there's is also (unfortunately) a lot of emotional investment (ego) involved in who's right and who's wrong.

The PTBs who monitor this situation must be chuckling their heads off about now, because realistically, unless you guys can show solidarity and all work together as a cohesive group TO GET TO THE TRUTH (through the many 'onion layers' still left to go) there's little chance of much progress forward in the near future, is there? :(

Yeah it sucks people can't have a calm, rational discussion about it without getting combative - or using mocking explanation points! I've actually gotten curious about it now.

Most curious thing about it to me: Gary Welz (youtube him). Very mysterious.

[narcolepticwatchman]

Yeah it sucks people can't have a calm, rational discussion about it without getting combative - or using mocking explanation points! I've actually gotten curious about it now.

Most curious thing about it to me: Gary Welz (youtube him). Very mysterious.

Not mysterious at all. These people are being found out. Now that there is a momentum behind the no plane and TV fakery theories I have no doubt that we will see an overwhelming amount of evidence surfacing to back up the theories.

The scary thing is the deafening silence from the major figures in the conspiracy world on the subject. Instances of TV fakery which are undeniable and point to an altogether darker picture of what really went on, yet we hear nothing on the subject from almost everyone.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Ladies & Gentlemen, Cordial Felicitations:

Myself, I am in the MIHOP Cadre. Teslafire has presented credible and impressive credentials in the Field of Video, Narcolepticwatchman has Engineering experience, impressive arguments have been presented to bolster the NPT. My position has been: Doable, but VERY unlikely.

To Prove the No Plane Theory collapses the House of Cards of 9/11.

It is an End of the World Scenario. Martial Law, Posse Comitatus. FEMA Gulags open for business.

I say: Put all the cards upon the table, and let the chips fall where they may.

Narcolepticwatchman, Teslafire and Mr. Bickle: Would you please provide in one post each: The most Potent, Pinpoint pieces of evidence to support the NPT. Brevity and succinctness will enhance clarity. eg: 1..2..3....4...

Mr. White: Is there solid evidence of Eye-Witnesses of Aerocraft, from the New Jersey Riverfront, watching the Towers after the First Strike? Names? Testamonies?

I would like to see this resolved in my Lifetime.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[sidlittle]

http://www.acebaker.com/9-11/PinocchioChoice.jpg

Three of these are 'nose in' , three are 'nose out'

Some would like you to believe three are ' nose in' and three are random debris that has formed into the shape, size and colour of 'nose in'.

Those same people are harping on all the time about the lack of peer review as social service said it was available for such in 'september clues' .

Although I don't think he should have mentioned that as you wouldn't expect a micro-precision pixel match from frame to frame, to deny the incredible likeness of 'nose in' and 'nose out' while decrying the lack of forthcoming 'peer review' is completely disingenuous with a nice helping of strawman thrown in to boot.

Random debris??

Get real

[john white]

Mr. White: Is there solid evidence of Eye-Witnesses of Aerocraft, from the New Jersey Riverfront, watching the Towers after the First Strike? Names? Testamonies?


There's loads of eyewitnesses testimony:

Bob Borski, 32, a financial director at the AIG insurance organization, with offices six blocks from the World Trade Center, was standing on the 15th floor with his boss, watching as the first tower burned. Then he saw United Airlines Flight 175 heading for the second tower.

It just doesn't fit into your mind -- I'm used to seeing planes and helicopters disappear behind the building. And then they come out the other side. But this was so low and it literally disappeared into the building. You think, well, what would that look like? Would it bounce off? But it's like the building swallowed up the plane. It was a swift explosion, it wasn't resounding. It was boom -- like a door shutting. Quick and loud. That silvery shiny plane, just going right into the building -- I'll replay it in my mind over and over.


For example: though true, not many people could have expected to give testimony explicitly to prove they saw a plane going into the building, becuase who would think somone would deny the patently obvious? So a lot of eyewitness testimony does not focus in detail on the plane: its usually "I saw the plane hit the building" and thats about it

How much of the above kind of stuff would you like?

Then theres stuff like this:

(not forgetting the eyewitness behind every camera)

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/impacts.html

both of the above being, of course, only a small sample: add witnesses up on TV and on Radio and in the Press on the day and the days to come, its hundreds, thousands. True, not all saw the Planes: but thats not suprising: not all were in a position to do so

Take this one for example: caught quite accidentaly, becuase there was no way they could see the approach from ground level

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UUDxZS-RSfw

And check the reflection at the bottom of the frame at 0.37

How brilliant these "fakes" must be!" every one consistant with each other, from every angle, in every aspect! Whether a still photo, a home camera image, a network camera image, from the north, the south, the east, the west, up close, far away...

In contrast, "No Planes Theory" relies on distorting misrepresenting and manipulating the evidence that does exist, most certainly including manipulating evidence to make it appear fake, and postualtes a conspiracy so all encompassing and absolutely powerful that, in truth, many of its adherants consider mankind to be gnats beneath it

It is a fraud, perpetrated on those genuinely seeking 9/11 Truth, clearly for many reasons, none of them good, and is the right hand of control to counterpart the left hand pedantic denial of the sceptics

[john white]

In addition:

Eric Salter wrote the following

2nd Hit TV Fakery?

Unlike the first hit, the multiple videos and photographs of the second hit clearly show a 767, so the noplaners are forced to claim that these videos were faked with computer graphics, overlaid in real-time on live TV or on tape afterward. Why the perps would resort to this risky operation when there was no technical obstacle to flying a plane into a building is never credibly explained.

Not surprisingly, the anomalies turn out to be amateurish image analysis mistakes. The observation of wings "flickering" on and off is one good example. These "flickering wings" only occur in the poorer quality video in which the brightness of the wing closely matches that of the background. What is happening is simple: noise and compression artifacts blur what little visual data there is of the edge of the wing. The wing then becomes indistinguishable from the background in that frame, hence the "disappearing wing" anomaly. Whether it happens or not in a particular frame is determined by random dispersal of noise and compression artifacts. But stepping back from the technical analysis, the flickering wing claim itself is fundamentally illogical: Other video angles show no flickering wing, undercutting the idea that the hologram was malfunctioning. And flickering like this simply does not happen in 3D animation unless the artist programs it to happen, thus eliminating the TV fakery hypothesis.

And so on and so on..... theres loads more but its scarcley worthwhile copy pasting the lot... that particular article is condensed at 14 pages

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/200610/Salter.pdf

Theres the link to the whole thing

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Cordial Felicitations:

Mr. White: Thank You for the Timely and Succinct reply. Bolstered by what appears to be substantive Empirical Evidence.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[narcolepticwatchman]

Anyone with any sense would agree that once there is ONE instance of faking of witnesses or TV fakery uncovered, there should be doubt cast onto the credibility of every other TV picture or first hand witness on the day.

We ALL know these people fake witnesses. They have done so on numerous occasions in the past. The Kuwaiti girl and the incubator babies is one well known example. Why should we trust them again?

Now, on the 9/11 issue alone, we have seen Gary Welz uncovered as a faked witness.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Social service has shown up the first hand witnesses on all the major networks to be either direct employees of the news stations or relations of direct employees bar one who is unknown. Not to mention the downright lies of 'seeing' things which could not possibly be seen by the woman in Chelsea. Or the coaching of the pentagon witnesses. (Dawn Vignola 2nd witness)

911 Pentagon witness's fake phone ins - YouTube

Then there is the evidence showing that the phone calls are not really phone calls as they are in the wrong frequency range......so where were they coming from then?

Oh and lest not forget the obvious fake witness who this thread is about.....case closed in 30 seconds.....exactly the same conclusions as the 911 commission report within a few minutes of the buildings falling.

Or you could just be like John White and totally overlook these glaring fakes, plants whatever you wanna call them......or put them down to coincidence...yeah right.

And as far as the fakery goes, to be honest, i don't think nose out is the strongest argument. To me, the spinning backgrounds, switching of the empire state building etc takes the biscuit. I'd be interested to hear Tesla's views on these as he is obviously more qualified to discuss them that john white.

Those, along with the 'ball' or blob, what ever you wanna call it are the strongest evidence.

First off, the ball wasn't there.....and neither was the plane, but there was a streak.......now, you go into the archives and there is still no plane....but a 'ball' shaped object flying at a crazy trajectory.........another stonewaller that is conveniently overlooked by Mr White.

The helicopters which are apprent in some live shots, but not on other stations showing synchronised live shots.

The amazing camera work -

the hezerkhani reluctance to disclose his shooting location and the faked soundtracks to his film

The MANDATORY aircrash investigations which weren't carried out for any of the planes on 911.

The fact that government BTS records show that two of the four planes never took off that day and two others were not decommissioned until four years later.

The fact that the government has refused (or been unable) to present "a single airplane part by serial number for independent corroboration," and why there is no confirmed debris of any of the alleged four planes, so that all of them have disappeared without a trace;

The fact that the passenger lists are faked with no Arabic names are on any of them; and why are there remarkably few alleged plane victims’ families requesting compensation?

The authorities destroyed the tapes of the flight controllers’ recollections of the events of that day. Could those tapes contain evidence that flights 11 and 77 did not take off that day and that 175 and 93 did not crash?

And i'm not even getting into the aluminium versus structural steel debate

Oh, and finally the concrete core which then wasn't concrete any more.....but was actually constucted of reinforced concrete.......whats the deal with that?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1540044.stm

http://911review.org/WTC/concrete-core.html

http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=5631

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread208594/pg1

And Mr White, before you go and say 'whats that got to do with NPT?' it has everything to do with it. It makes it impossible for your debris to come out the other side from your non existant holes.

Note that Mr White keeps alluding to th fact that no planers have faked or manipulated footage themselves. Show us, in the September clues film the footage that has been faked John or seriously stop talking bull about it. You have never once came u wth the evidence to support your claim despite numerous requests to do so.

[john white]

And Mr White, before you go and say 'whats that got to do with NPT?' it has everything to do with it. It makes it impossible for your debris to come out the other side from your non existant holes.

Note that Mr White keeps alluding to th fact that no planers have faked or manipulated footage themselves. Show us, in the September clues film the footage that has been faked John or seriously stop talking bull about it. You have never once came u wth the evidence to support your claim despite numerous requests to do so.

http://www.acebaker.com/9-11/PinocchioChoice.jpg

F

A

K

E

D

There you go, there's a good start

[john white]

Seriously, i've shown how NPT is faked loads of times, typical of theose caught up in the scam not to be able to even notice

Bet none of them has read the Salter peice?

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/200610/Salter.pdf

And of course, I personally showed how Fred was trying to prove the Herzekhani video fake using a faked still photo for comparison, and Killtown is still hawking the same fake photo to this day (The "Battery Park Photo" fake)

(I'll edit a link to that in later, UK 9/11 forum is down again)

Basically there are four key techniques of faking used to create the NPT fraud

1) False labelling

Quite simply, defining footage as showing something it absolutely does not, usually acompanied on the videos by repitition and hypnotic music

2) Fraudulent editing

the footage is closely edited to the part of a second to avoid showing anything that will spoil the "illusion" that the footage shows what it is falsely being labeled as showing

The "nose out" claims are famous for this: always they are stopped at the maximum of "nose out" when if allowed to continue just one or two seconds longer, the footage obviously shows what the the "nose out" really is: the emergent of the incandascent fireball surrounding the engine as it exits WTC2 on its parabolic trajectory towards the street below, breaking into seperate peices of debris on the way down

3) Distorting footage

Again this is very common

frames are removed, frames are stretched, the resolution is deliberately reduced and colours are messed about with, all with the aim of making compression effects more obvious and creating "doubt" about footage

4) Out and out tampered/doctored footage

Rare, used only when absolutely nessacary, usually just a frame or a handful of frames, and often just a small section of frames: and of course, comparing live footage to a single faked image, as I exposed Fred did in the link above

(when provided later on)

All of this works, of course, only when the punter "buys" it, theres always a handful that do just that, who then proceed to defend their belief system about NPT, like Narcoleptic Watchmen above, and therefore becoming unwitting accomplaces in spreading the NPT meme

After all, what could be worse, having been fooled by the PTB once over 9/11, than to face the awful truth that one has allowed oneself to be fooled again?

[narcolepticwatchman]

Seriously, i've shown how NPT is faked loads of times, typical of theose caught up in the scam not to be able to even notice

Bet none of them has read the Salter peice?

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/200610/Salter.pdf

And of course, I personally showed how Fred was trying to prove the Herzekhani video fake using a faked still photo for comparison, and Killtown is still hawking the same fake photo to this day (The "Battery Park Photo" fake)

(I'll edit a link to that in later, UK 9/11 forum is down again)

Basically there are four key techniques of faking used to create the NPT fraud

1) False labelling

Quite simply, defining footage as showing something it absolutely does not, usually acompanied on the videos by repitition and hypnotic music

2) Fraudulent editing

the footage is closely edited to the part of a second to avoid showing anything that will spoil the "illusion" that the footage shows what it is falsely being labeled as showing

The "nose out" claims are famous for this: always they are stopped at the maximum of "nose out" when if allowed to continue just one or two seconds longer, the footage obviously shows what the the "nose out" really is: the emergent of the incandascent fireball surrounding the engine as it exits WTC2 on its parabolic trajectory towards the street below, breaking into seperate peices of debris on the way down

3) Distorting footage

Again this is very common

frames are removed, frames are stretched, the resolution is deliberately reduced and colours are messed about with, all with the aim of making compression effects more obvious and creating "doubt" about footage

4) Out and out tampered/doctored footage

Rare, used only when absolutely nessacary, usually just a frame or a handful of frames, and often just a small section of frames: and of course, comparing live footage to a single faked image, as I exposed Fred did in the link above

(when provided later on)

All of this works, of course, only when the punter "buys" it, theres always a handful that do just that, who then proceed to defend their belief system about NPT, like Narcoleptic Watchmen above, and therefore becoming unwitting accomplaces in spreading the NPT meme

After all, what could be worse, having been fooled by the PTB once over 9/11, than to face the awful truth that one has allowed oneself to be fooled again?

John, do not start talkin bull about belief systems when EXACTLY the same can be labelled at you on the opposite side of the coin.

Show us the proof of the fakes instead of REPEATING your nonsense. Its ad nauseum mate. Fact is YOU CAN'T otherwise you would have done it long ago.

Oh and here is a response to your Salter piece.....which again you seem to be plugging an awful lot. Ad nauseum indeed. I think i have seen you plug that same piece at least half a dozen times in the past few months. Seems he is as thorough in his research as you.......

http://www.911research.dsl.pipex.com/disinformation/

[john white]

John, do not start talkin bull about belief systems when EXACTLY the same can be labelled at you on the opposite side of the coin.

Show us the proof of the fakes instead of REPEATING your nonsense. Its ad nauseum mate. Fact is YOU CAN'T otherwise you would have done it long ago.

Oh and here is a response to your Salter piece.....which again you seem to be plugging an awful lot. Ad nauseum indeed. I think i have seen you plug that same piece at least half a dozen times in the past few months. Seems he is as thorough in his research as you.......



http://journalof911studies.com/volume/200610/Salter.pdf

Link works fine to me (and clearly for snoopsnuffleopagus as well): how unfortunate it doesnt work for you!

As for the rest of your post, yes I agree I've touched a raw nerve with you and you can't address the obvious and real content of my post:

Thanks for the handy demonstration of the effect I'm talking about

Of course, we are all familiar from our own experience here of the typical reaction of the programmed to the threat of their programming being dismantled

[john white]

http://www.911research.dsl.pipex.com/disinformation/

BTW: interesting hit peice for a No Planer to use, where "Thomas the Tank Engine" (wonder who that is today?) attacks Salter for suggesting the previous fraud, Pod theory, was a crock as well. but presumably you would vehamently oppose Thomas the Tank Engine for his defense of the fact that there WAS a Plane (even though he thinks there was a missile strapped to the bottom of it)

Somewhat desperate OWN GOAL for you to try to refute Salter with an anonymous source that also refutes your own position

Shows the regretably consequences of the "red mist" coming down and a quick hit on google, doesnt it?

Also, equally regretably (for you), shows how Mr Brain is not in permanent residence

[narcolepticwatchman]

http://www.911research.dsl.pipex.com/disinformation/

BTW: interesting hit peice for a No Planer to use, where "Thomas the Tank Engine" (wonder who that is today?) attacks Salter for suggesting the previous fraud, Pod theory, was a crock as well. but presumably you would vehamently oppose Thomas the Tank Engine for his defense of the fact that there WAS a Plane (even though he thinks there was a missile strapped to the bottom of it)

Somewhat desperate OWN GOAL for you to try to refute Salter with an anonymous source that also refutes your own position

Shows the regretably consequences of the "red mist" coming down and a quick hit on google, doesnt it?

Also, equally regretably (for you), shows how Mr Brain is not in permanent residence

So you didn't read it then? lol what a fraud you are.

[john white]

http://www.911research.dsl.pipex.com/disinformation/

Interesting hit peice for a No Planer to use, where "Thomas the Tank Engine" (wonder who that is today?)

As a result of being publicly ripped a new arsehole by Holmgren, Salter decided to attack Holmgren in his forthcoming paper “The WTC Impacts: 767s or ‘Whatzits’?” thereby showing that he had learned nothing from his encounter. Having read Salter's articles I think it’s safe to say that anyone with an IQ of over 100 would have no trouble in seeing that they are complete garbage that would only be of interest to the 911 disinformation enthusiasts who lap up Salter’s anti-intellectual nonsense like a thirsty hyenas and then spread it around the rest of the pack like rabies.

Actually I recognise the style, this is clearly No-Planes Guru Fred in a previous incarnation defending the idea that there were Planes vehemently, its the pictures of shit that give it away, kind of like a signature

[john white]

So you didn't read it then? lol what a fraud you are.

You'll wise up one day. It will be painful, but not as painful as dave shayler coming to terms with the fact that hes not actually the messiah, so i'm sure that you can come through

[narcolepticwatchman]

http://www.911research.dsl.pipex.com/disinformation/

BTW: interesting hit peice for a No Planer to use, where "Thomas the Tank Engine" (wonder who that is today?) attacks Salter for suggesting the previous fraud, Pod theory, was a crock as well. but presumably you would vehamently oppose Thomas the Tank Engine for his defense of the fact that there WAS a Plane (even though he thinks there was a missile strapped to the bottom of it)

Somewhat desperate OWN GOAL for you to try to refute Salter with an anonymous source that also refutes your own position

Shows the regretably consequences of the "red mist" coming down and a quick hit on google, doesnt it?

Also, equally regretably (for you), shows how Mr Brain is not in permanent residence

In the real world there is absolutely no evidence what so ever to support the theory that a Boeing 767-200 hit WTC1 on 911. Research and computer simulations by structural engineers have show that the airframes of both Boeing's would have been unable to penetrate the outer walls of the towers; they would have crumpled up and exploded on the exterior walls.

From the response to Salter.........John White you are a shill.

[john white]

You just can't handle the truth mate, you bought too deep into the lie and entrapped yourself. I know I can't help you: you can only help yourself

But you do have my sympathy

[narcolepticwatchman]

You just can't handle the truth mate, you bought too deep into the lie and entrapped yourself. I know I can't help you: you can only help yourself

But you do have my sympathy


LOL. no comment required.....that comment says it all about you.....

heres more salt in yer wounds.......

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10760

[john white]

Morgan Reynolds!

ROFL!

[narcolepticwatchman]

Morgan Reynolds!

ROFL!

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3286

[helloperator]

As for the topic...yeah, when I watched live footage on the night it happened from here in Australia...something felt very wrong with the cut of the media's gib.

I just can't believe how 'put to bed' this incident is for the majority of people. No one cares anymore. Old people won't have a bar of a Daddy figure being the big bad wolf, young people see it as being a long, long time ago and most of the people in the middle who should care are too busy either making credits and buying things or gratifying their base pleasures with drink, drugs and pornography.

I just can't believe it. What a sense of desperation and impotence must be felt by those people who know it's all a lie.

It's like a Twilight Zone episode or something where the main character wakes up in some nightmare world or like how the guy from the One filmclip feels

[clint web]

That guy in the baseball cap in the first video - was he ever identified?