has anyone looked into the history of religion ?

[freeman craig]

buy that i mean has anyone else studied religion right the way back to the source. For example christianity and islam being born from judaism which in turn was born out of eygptian theology which can in turn be traced back to summerian culuture which again can be traced back to the original garden of eden in whats now is Lebannon. I have been studying it for around 20 years now. just wondering if any like minded people out there any any more info to swap.

[old major]

buy that i mean has anyone else studied religion right the way back to the source. For example christianity and islam being born from judaism which in turn was born out of eygptian theology which can in turn be traced back to summerian culuture which again can be traced back to the original garden of eden in whats now is Lebannon. I have been studying it for around 20 years now. just wondering if any like minded people out there any any more info to swap.

the first religion started with some guy picking up a stone, closing his eyes and saying 'please help me'...its been all downhill since then.

[lizzy]

:eek: nar , u got the wrong forum mate...never seen anythin like that in me life.....;).....LOL..........

sorry could'nt resist, ;) you have deffo found thr right place , look in the
Ancient History / Forbidden Knowledge / History Rewritten section , it's all around and in the archives , there are many well informed peeps here.

welcome :)

[lizzy]

the first religion started with some guy picking up a stone, closing his eyes and saying 'please help me'...its been all downhill since then.


LOL, .....started when he threw the stone and realised it was a weapon:eek:

[freeman craig]

the first religion started with some guy picking up a stone, closing his eyes and saying 'please help me'...its been all downhill since then.

lol i treat it like a history lesson and think its important to know where we have come from to know where we are heading

[armoured_amazon]

Nah, it's not important. I tune into the Source directly.

[freeman craig]

:eek: nar , u got the wrong forum mate...never seen anythin like that in me life.....;).....LOL..........

sorry could'nt resist, ;) you have deffo found thr right place , look in the
Ancient History / Forbidden Knowledge / History Rewritten section , it's all around and in the archives , there are many well informed peeps here.

welcome :)

thanks lizzy i shall look there

[old major]

LOL, .....started when he threw the stone and realised it was a weapon:eek:

yep, he threw it at the guy who was praying to the stick all the while yelling you godless HERETIC!!!

[freeman craig]

Nah, it's not important. I tune into the Source directly.

so do i hence why i dont look down on others that dont

[shellygurrrl]

The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S

Icke delves nicely into it

I haven't studied it, just read what other people have written, and there are some dang good compelling theories out there!

[freeman craig]

The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S

Icke delves nicely into it

I haven't studied it, just read what other people have written, and there are some dang good compelling theories out there!

thanks for that not read that yet i shall check it out

[old major]

Acharya S

don't trust her, she has a funny shaped head. ever noticed?

[freeman craig]

don't trust her, she has a funny shaped head. ever noticed?

lol she looks alright i would anyway. just watched a video with her pretty much the same conclusions i have already drawn only difference being i actually think there was a historical jesus and all the mythologial attributes were attached later but still good to have most of it confirmed. christianity is a easy one to work out its the summerian text i keep changing my mind on.

[1977]

buy that i mean has anyone else studied religion right the way back to the source. For example christianity and islam being born from judaism which in turn was born out of eygptian theology which can in turn be traced back to summerian culuture which again can be traced back to the original garden of eden in whats now is Lebannon. I have been studying it for around 20 years now. just wondering if any like minded people out there any any more info to swap.
I have tried to study it. The basis of all these religions seems to center around the Logos, Adam Kadmon, the cosmic Anima Mundi, who is crucified upside-down in space at the foundation of the world. In sacrificing himself, he gives life to all things. This is Tammuz, the original Dying God, the "Shepherd" and "faithful Son," who is simply the Sumerian DAMU, Adam.

Adam Kadmon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cosmic Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I do not claim that this is entirely correct, but this is what the evidence suggests at the moment, and I can provide material to back it up. But I would be interested in what conclusions you have come to.

This passage from Five Stages of Greek Religion (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30250/30250-h/30250-h.htm) expresses a similar, if not quite identical, idea—
The Gnostics are still commonly thought of as a body of Christian heretics. In reality there were Gnostic sects scattered over the Hellenistic world before Christianity as well as after. They must have been established in Antioch and probably in Tarsus well before the days of Paul or Apollos. Their Saviour, like the Jewish Messiah, was established in men's minds before the Saviour of the Christians. 'If we look close', says Professor Bousset, 'the result emerges with great clearness, that the figure of the Redeemer as such did not wait for Christianity to force its way into the religion of Gnôsis, but was already present there under various forms.'[162:1] He occurs notably in two pre-Christian documents, discovered by the keen analysis and profound learning of Dr. Reitzenstein: the Poimandres revelation printed in the Corpus Hermeticum, and the sermon of the Naassenes in Hippolytus, Refutatio Omnium Haeresium, which is combined with Attis-worship....

Their Redeemer is descended by a fairly clear genealogy from the 'Tritos Sôtêr' of early Greece, contaminated with similar figures, like Attis and Adonis from Asia Minor, Osiris from Egypt, and the special Jewish conception of the Messiah of the Chosen people. He has various names, which the name of Jesus or 'Christos', 'the Anointed', tends gradually to supersede. Above all he is, in some sense, Man, or 'the Second Man' or 'the Son of Man'. The origin of this phrase needs a word of explanation. Since the ultimate unseen God, spirit though He is, made man in His image, since holy men (and divine kings) are images of God, it follows that He is Himself Man. He is the real, the ultimate, the perfect and eternal Man, of whom all bodily men are feeble copies. He is also the Father; the Saviour is his Son, 'the Image of the Father', 'the Second Man', 'the Son of Man'. The method in which he performs his mystery of Redemption varies. It is haunted by the memory of the old Suffering and Dying God.... It is vividly affected by the ideal 'Righteous Man' of Plato, who 'shall be scourged, tortured, bound, his eyes burnt out, and at last, after suffering every evil, shall be impaled or crucified'.[163:1] But in [164]the main he descends, of his free will or by the eternal purpose of the Father, from Heaven through the spheres of all the Archontes or Kosmokratores, the planets, to save mankind, or sometimes to save the fallen Virgin, the Soul, Wisdom, or 'the Pearl'.[164:1] The Archontes let him pass because he is disguised; they do not know him (cf. 1 Cor. ii. 7 ff.). When his work is done he ascends to Heaven to sit by the side of the Father in glory; he conquers the Archontes, leads them captive in his triumph, strips them of their armour (Col. ii. 15; cf. the previous verse), sometimes even crucifies them for ever in their places in the sky.[164:2] The epistles to the Colossians and the Ephesians are much influenced by these doctrines.
As noted, the Hermetic Poemandres (http://sacred-texts.com/gno/th2/th202.htm) is a key document.

[octopusrex]

THis might help:

ZEITGEIST, Part 1 (Religion) Debunked? Acharya Responds - YouTube

[1776]

The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S

Icke delves nicely into it

I haven't studied it, just read what other people have written, and there are some dang good compelling theories out there!

Don't buy into this New Age Devil Doctrine b/s!!!!

The Devil wears many Disguises!!! Do not be fooled by them!!!

Labyrinth of Truth pt.22 (Immersed In Evil) [recut]
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


The New Age Infiltration of the Truth Movement (Pt. 1 of 9) Final Cut
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


Nimrod-Osiris-Apollyon: Mysteries Revealed (Pt. 1 of 13) The Son of Perdition
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


The Zeitgeist Challenge
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


The War
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


Jesus is the Lord. He is the way and the truth. The Word of God is truth. All the prophecies have come true, He has never lied like these men and women have (new agers)!

[1776]

THis might help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_9ZyddjaM4

She's a REPEATER, and a LIAR, over and over again, that's her tactic. Repeat until its becomes truth to people. Doesn't work that way!

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (1 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (1 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S - YouTube

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (2 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (2 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S - YouTube

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (3 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (4 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (4 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S - YouTube

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (5 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (5 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S - YouTube

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (6 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (7 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (7of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S - YouTube

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (8 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (8 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S - YouTube

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (9 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

"The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED (10 of 10) Peter Joseph interviews Acharya S
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


Debunked - her lies have been revealed.

[octopusrex]

In the search for truth, there are no lies, friend.;)

[1776]

In the search for truth, there are no lies, friend.;)

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

She's a liar. Some people are deceivers, some aren't. Sometimes it's as simple as that.

Sure she may say some truths, but her ultimate agenda is only ushering in a New World Order, a One World Religion (We are all One / UNITY), ONE WORLD GOVERNANCE.

And she'll use her LIES and DECEPTION to make this sort of thing APPEAL to you!!!!! Don't buy it!

[octopusrex]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

She's a liar. Some people are deceivers, some aren't. Sometimes it's as simple as that.

Sure she may say some truths, but her ultimate agenda is only ushering in a New World Order, a One World Religion (We are all One / UNITY), ONE WORLD GOVERNANCE.

And she'll use her LIES and DECEPTION to make this sort of thing APPEAL to you!!!!! Don't buy it!

Nyquil. But I usually don't need it. I sleep way profoundly.

Lies and deception.. Hmm.. They will all be ... explained someday.

BUT.

We are all One / Unity.

Well, fuck it, man. It's bloody time to do it! BY any means necessary.

[freeman craig]

right ok shall tell you where im upto briefly with my hypothosis but its changing all the time as i find more evidence. The trouble with studying summerian text is firstly the different translations from a wide range of scholars and the fact that most summerian artifacts have not even been studied in great detail yet. The british museum have loads of stuff stashed away im lead to believe. There was a load of stuff in Iraq that disappeared or was destroyed during the bombings. right 40,000 years ago there was a supernova explosion that was 200 light years away from our planet the effects of this hit us in three waves. Firstly the light burst when a supernova explodes its create more light then they do in the whole time of thier life. For it to expode in on its self it needs to be three times the size of our sun so you can imagine the power of that blast. It scorched one side of the planet hitting austrailasia hence why there are no large mammals left on that continent. 7000 years later the comic dust from the explosion hit the earth again causing massive problems and then the big one come around 10,000 bc when a massive comet hit our north pole causing the earth crust to move and causing the planet to tilt. there are lots of geologial evidence to prove this aswell as the fact that we find mammoths frozen in ice with grass still in thier mouths. This event caused the great flood story from, all cultures talk of the great flood gilgamesh ( summerian ) noah etc. The garden of eden is the restarting of civilization after this event in what is now lebanon. Now according the summerians there were two supreme gods aswell as the lower angels and then the watchers. There seems to be some sort of power structure within the anunnaki now i dont agree with sitchin that these were from out of space i just think they were a highly civilised group of humans that evolved on this earth. We saw them as gods simply because they were more intelligent then us. now im not sure if they affected our evolution but we do have a missing link from cro magnon to homo sapiens. so when it says god greated us in his image that could mean we were genetically modified with there genes to make us more like them. There were lots of different humanoids around then neanderthals seem to disappear around the same time and the pygmys were another race of humanoids its quite possible the anunnaki were another and so was we. I dont believe that they were reptiles either they maybe depicted as having reptilian features but i think they were known as the serpent ones ie wise ones the druids called themselves the serpent ones. When st patrick banished snakes from Ireland it was the druids not snakes coz there have never been any snakes he was just bringing christainity there and removing the old pagan beliefs. The snake that tempts eve was a serpent one wise one which caused trouble among thier ranks as they were not allowed to breed with humans i think that is what the apple is symbolizing as its deffo something sexual coz they cover up thier bits afterwards. eve then had a bite of the apple with adam so obvoiusly had sex with him aswell. I think abel was the son of adam and cain was the son of the serpent one. When leaving the original garden of eden groups were sent of to all corners of the earth to restart civilisation again including Britain and summer Egypt the americas. They taught us agriculture, cosmology and laws on how to live everything we needed to become civilised i just think we lost our way big time. all we are left with is mythological stories that we have mis- interepted. Well thats it in brief but i think all religion can be traced back to the time of the garden of eden when civilisation was restarting again recovering from a massive meteor strike. The anunnaki died out and left us to it and here we are probably going against all that tried to teach us. Sorry just read that back and doesnt make much sense so much evidence to put in but hope you get my drift. Google video has got some lectures by edmund marriage well worth viewing and like i said its a evolving hypothosis so would love some input back.

[1776]

Nyquil. But I usually don't need it. I sleep way profoundly.

Lies and deception.. Hmm.. They will all be ... explained someday.

BUT.

We are all One / Unity.

Well, fuck it, man. It's bloody time to do it! BY any means necessary.

You already bought the biggest lie there is :mad:

This shit is CORRUPTING peoples minds... its disgusting... pollution, and exactly what the New World Order Agenda is of ENSLAVEMENT and UNITY under OPPRESSION and DICTATORSHIP. This is what you want? Get it on with already? Are you sick?

The United Nations has been pushing this shit for decades now under several false pretenses, to get everyone under "One Religion" of "UNITY", it's all CRAP and not what you're thining it is!!!!

[octopusrex]

You already bought the biggest lie there is :mad:

This shit is CORRUPTING peoples minds... its disgusting... pollution, and exactly what the New World Order Agenda is of ENSLAVEMENT and UNITY under OPPRESSION and DICTATORSHIP. This is what you want? Get it on with already? Are you sick?

The United Nations has been pushing this shit for decades now under several false pretenses, to get everyone under "One Religion" of "UNITY", it's all CRAP and not what you're thining it is!!!!

One World Army. That means no more nations to fight. Only rebels.

The rebels would eventually understand that picking up weapons...
Is murder.

I donno.. 1776. I went to your youtube channel for wisdom.

An end to war seems like a good idea to me.

[1776]

One World Army. That means no more nations to fight. Only rebels.

The rebels would eventually understand that picking up weapons...
Is murder.

I donno.. 1776. I went to your youtube channel for wisdom.

An end to war seems like a good idea to me.

I'm a slave to NO man. You can choose for yourself.

[octopusrex]

I'm a slave to NO man. You can choose for yourself.

Now you are the one giving bullshit. You are a slave to Jesus, aren't you?:D

Y'know.. I've been in 'chains'.. the real ones, made of iron. A few times. Those chains can't really stop your spirit. But it's no fun. Guarantee you. So Freedom is something you keep deep inside you.

But WORLD PEACE man!?

[1776]

Now you are the one giving bullshit. You are a slave to Jesus, aren't you?:D

Y'know.. I've been in 'chains'.. the real ones, made of iron. A few times. Those chains can't really stop your spirit. But it's no fun. Guarantee you. So Freedom is something you keep deep inside you.

But WORLD PEACE man!?

They don't want WORLD PEACE, you don't get it yet? You haven't researched and studied their agenda?

You might as well sign up for the programs the United Nations offers and like programs. Join forces with the New World Order outfits, right? :rolleyes:

I'm a slave to NO man. I'm a servant to Christ, yes. And Thank God!

I'd love world peace...... it's not the NWO agenda that's being ushered in with NEW AGE PROPAGANDA though, that's what I'm tryingto tell you!

[freeman craig]

well i believe in our creator and i believe in jesus but i dont believe in the church. I think it has been used by the power elite to control the masses for thousands of years. If christ is ever reincarnated the first place he will go is to the vatican and he would do more then turn over a few money lenders tables this time. The church is part of the power elite to control us and they have lied to us about jesus's true teachings to do so. we are all equal even the power elite they have been corrupted by thier own power and have lost thier way thats all this is all part of our evolution when we come out on the other side of all this there will be heaven on earth as intended. reading your two arguments proves to me how much trouble religion has caused mankind. It has caused millions of deaths worldwide and it still is. The vatican has fortunes in money and gold has shares in weapons company's and thats suppose to be christian? to hold all that money whilst children are starving to death its a disgrace to humanity and jesus would be distraught to see all that done in his name. im not a newager im against new order but in my opinion christainity has a lot to answer for. if thier is a second coming the first arses he will be kicking is the christians now wouldnt that be ironic.

[orlibonurb]

well i believe in our creator and i believe in jesus but i dont believe in the church. I think it has been used by the power elite to control the masses for thousands of years. If christ is ever reincarnated the first place he will go is to the vatican and he would do more then turn over a few money lenders tables this time. The church is part of the power elite to control us and they have lied to us about jesus's true teachings to do so. we are all equal even the power elite they have been corrupted by thier own power and have lost thier way thats all this is all part of our evolution when we come out on the other side of all this there will be heaven on earth as intended. reading your two arguments proves to me how much trouble religion has caused mankind. It has caused millions of deaths worldwide and it still is. The vatican has fortunes in money and gold has shares in weapons company's and thats suppose to be christian? to hold all that money whilst children are starving to death its a disgrace to humanity and jesus would be distraught to see all that done in his name. im not a newager im against new order but in my opinion christainity has a lot to answer for. if thier is a second coming the first arses he will be kicking is the christians now wouldnt that be ironic.


Wrong, true born-again Christians / the spiritual Church of Jesus Christ will be raptured before the "7 years Tribulation" period.

[freeman craig]

lol o yeah i forgot the rapture concept christainity at its best am putting that alongside dancing with rattle snakes to test my faith both go to show how easy it is to mis understand the bible. Im sorry i dont believe either concept but you are entitled to your beliefs and i wont knock you for that.

[dedicate]

Just by tracing the Religion back to Sumaria.. what does that suppose to mean? All you have said, is that no matter how far back one takes history, one finds people who worship. Does this really tell us anything about the "source" of Religion? So then where did the Sumarian religion come from? Where does Buddhism come from?

[freeman craig]

the anunnaki thought i say that in my posts this is only my conclusion and its not set in stone my any means i always keep a open mind to most things.

[dedicate]

The annunaki gave us Buddhism? They must be benevolent Beings.

[freeman craig]

buddhism can be traced back to there aswell, i actually think thats the most purest form we have left today. I also think the true jesus's teachings are very strongily linked to buddhism as well due to his study in india as a child student. I also think he escaped to india to live out the rest of live there. Again just a hypothosis

[dedicate]

There are some things you are missing.

I'll note this.. You asked, "What is the history of Religion".. you also asked what is the "source" of religion. And maybe you asked "What is the origin of Relgion".. Three different questions.

Did you say you have been studing this for 20 years? That's amazing to me. I'm not sure I believe it. Everything you have talked about could be repeated by someone after a day's study.

[freeman craig]

i think the anunnaki taught us that belief system how the universe worked etc it was mans later mis-intereptions that produced all religion.

[dedicate]

After 20 years of study this is the best you can do?

[freeman craig]

when i say studying im not a scholar just searching for answers for myself. i went to sunday school as a child later on it just didnt fit with me. Started to go to spiritualist church after leaving school some things felt ok but others didnt fit either. looked into all the other religions and as they all seem to the same core valves just different a spin on it i presumed that they must of come from the same source. So then i looked into tracing it back to the source the best i can and thats the conclusion i have come up with. as i said my beliefs aren't set in stone hence why i wanted to have this debate to hear over peoples ideas. I'm open minded to all suggestions. I think buddhist beliefs are the closest i have come to what i feel is right. I dont wear a orange robe but i'm veggie i meditate i believe in reincarnation. i was after input not judgement

[dedicate]

So it's not really 20 years of study, like you said. It's 20 years now you have wondered about the origins of Religion. In fact, you have givin it about as much time as you have basket weaving.

You tell me the origin of Music and I'll tell you the origin of Religion.

[freeman craig]

i would love to hear your beliefs on the origin of religion you havent given me anything yet other then bad vibes.

[dedicate]

Sorry. Won't get it from me that easy. It is your belief system that has to be dismantled first -- or you will not hear a thing I say.

I'm sure you say you have an open mind on the subject. But you do not. An open mind has no beliefs. You have many strongly held beliefs. Maybe you should begin by understanding that, instead of pretending to be an "Open minded" person questioning religion.

And Like I said, Tell me the origin of Music -- where does music come from? and I'll tell you the origin of Religion. Seems easy enough, but you did not answer.

[orlibonurb]

All religions of today can be traced back to ancient Mystery Babylon religion. The first pagan based religion to ever show up on planet earth.

All one has to do is to research / study the symbolism behind every religion and you'll trace it back to ancient Babylon. As simple as this.

A small example from Buddhism,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Vajradhara_statue_Asian_Art_Museum_SF.JPG/464px-Vajradhara_statue_Asian_Art_Museum_SF.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Simhavaktra_Dakini.jpg/800px-Simhavaktra_Dakini.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Bundesarchiv_Bild_135-S-15-47-18%2C_Tibetexpedition%2C_F%C3%BCrst_von_Gautsa.jpg/450px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_135-S-15-47-18%2C_Tibetexpedition%2C_F%C3%BCrst_von_Gautsa.jpg


Ancient Mystery Babylon handsign "mano cornuto"
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/satan_sign1.gif


Alot more here,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97333

and even more if you just google something like,

. "Buddhism Mystery Babylon"

. "Mystery Babylon religion"

[freeman craig]

sorry it didnt seem relevant to the debate but your right you cant fill a cup thats already full maybe my cup is already full but i purposely put my beliefs out there to get shoot down so i can find other areas to research. i do think i will find the truth from within rather then from the study of material mind beliefs so maybe i was looking in the wrong place for guidance by posting on here just interested in other peoples opinions thats all. As for music well not really given it that much thought other then its good for the soul and seems to impact us on a spiritual level. i think music could of been used for a spiritual purpose from the start rather then meerly entertainment like we use it know i guess. Its very powerful though and drums were probably the first instruments to be used by tribal people. i think the drum patterns effect our heart beat so can create different emotional states that way. so i see ancient pagan tribes dancing around camp fires using the drums and dancing as a form of meditation to release themselves from from thier material bodies and get in touch with innerselves o yeah and the drugs they used might of help the process. the same method is still about to this day its called drum and bass lol

[freeman craig]

the Babylonian empire didnt start till 729 BC thats 9000 years of civilisation not accounted for. i think that it did have a major impact on judaism due to the evidence thats suggest that this was when the torah was written although most jews value other scriptures more as they are said to come from a older source.

[freeman craig]

the egyptians and sumerians predate babylon by a long long way whilst still having very similar traits so therefore it cant be the source can it ?

[dedicate]

So, to you the history of mankind, is the history of religion. And the origin and source of religion is the same as the history of religion. You see it, as if one goes far back in time, one finds the origin of something.

This is called the linear theory of history. I dont' think it works very well.

For one thing.. one is forced to find connections where there may not be any... ie. Summarians practiced a religion.. they are the oldest known civilizations therefore all religion came from that.

Also, it is reductionism. Somehow, religion being shown to exist prior to to Buddha or Jesus,, somehow explains it. Or the fact that many cultures have used similar symbols explains Christianity. This is reductionism... but the atom is not explained by the Neutron, Proton and Electron. Reductionism is a way to deflect further questioning.

[freeman craig]

great thanks for your input dedicate i guess that is sort of right as i think today's religions are man made perceptions trying to explain the origins of mankind ie how we got here and why were here etc so i am linking them together. Any good historian will always try and get back to the orginal source for a more accurate accounts of events. 12,000 years of chinese whispers changes the story somewhat. The sumeraian storys of creation and the flood story are so close to genesis that it of course raises questions that the story were copies from a original source. flood stories are found accross globe in all ancient cultures now geological data is currently placing the flood at around 10,500 bc approx 10,000 years before the old testament accounts were written now the scribes werent about in those times so they must of copied it from earlier accounts. I dont see this as reductionism in any way shape or form. The old testament is a history book any bibilcal scholar will tell you that, the events mentioned can mostly be proved to of happened through science and other means .As for explaining a atom of course your right quantum physics proves that the atom is not just a neutron with protons and electrons flying around it. Its empty space and solid matter doesnt actually exist in a real world so there is loads more going on there that isnt explained by just the neutron protons and electrons ie how can solid matter be made of empty space? in essence my quest for the origins of religion has a purely material slant on it tbh my quest for spirituality must come from within but i will try and learn all that i can from enlighten teachers like jesus and buddha to help me find inner peace.

[octopusrex]

Eurasians and their beleifs baffle me: What about the ABORIGENES in Australia?
What about the Olmecs!?

[dedicate]

If it's not reductionism, there is a name for it. For example, I show you here how it is you are making connections and coming to conclusions without evidence. And you are dismissing fruther questions by implying something has been explained, though it has not been.


The sumeraian storys of creation and the flood story are so close to genesis that it of course raises questions that the story were copies from a original source. flood stories are found accross globe in all ancient cultures now geological data is currently placing the flood at around 10,500 bc approx 10,000 years before the old testament accounts were written now the scribes werent about in those times so they must of copied it from earlier accounts. I dont see this as reductionism in any way shape or form. The old testament is a history book any bibilcal scholar will tell you that, the events mentioned can mostly be proved to of happened through science and other means


So there was a flood. And there are records of it across the globe, (or so you say). So how does that contradict the Bible? Why does the Bible account of the Flood have to be a copy? There was a flood and the Bible tells us there was a flood. That's really all we know. What's the problem?

You saying the Hebrews got the story from another source, is speculation. No evidence for what you say, except that it is possible.



Who said the Bible was written when? More Bible scholars and Scientist? I wouldn't believe everything they say. I wouldn't believe much of anything a scholar or scientist has to say.


And you seemed to have missed the point I was making using the Atom as an analogy. Often, people will explain something, like emotion.. saying it is Chemical reaction and excretion of glands. Thus they believe they have explained emotions. I believe you are doing the same sort of thing,, by taking the parts as an explanation for things.

Now if you can understand the Atom and all physical existance is nothing at all,,, then you can maybe understand time is nothing too...... and that by tracing things back in history leads to a dead end -- an empty affair. It has it's uses, but to really answer the questions,, it is limited.

[freeman craig]

the Aboriginal belief system is really really interesting "the dreaming" is very similar to the concept of conciousness they were not touched by emergence of the one god or multi god sytems out of Eurasia. It was reading about these ancient cultures that made me think about what actually is behind monotheism. It seems to be a very unique concept that came out Eurasia and to say that its the truth and everyone esle on the planet is wrong is a bit hard for me to swallow. Olmecs again are a really interesting culture genetically coming from the american indians but with a african looking statues bit wierd. But again thier system was more about the worship of the creation rather then a creator. All these pagan ancient cultures beliefs seem very similar to todays gaia hypothesis that the whole planet works in a symbiotic way. by worshipping the enviroment around them they tried to live in a natural equailibrium not to tip the balance. I really think that thier systems would be a far better use to us right now as mankind seem intent on destroying the planet.

[geolaureate8]

dedicate, your solipsism will get us nowhere. We must work with what is believed to be objective existence and qualia. Just because linear time may be an illusion doesn't mean we can't use it to sort things out. Our very existence is illusory (in the sense that the universe is a hologram), but does that mean we should stop living.

That being said, I enjoy your input and I find you to be one the few people that can engage in fruitful discussion.



.

[freeman craig]

Shurippak -a city which thou knowest,

(And) which on Euphrates' banks is set-
That city was ancient, (as were) the gods within it,


When their heart led the great gods to produce the flood.

There were Anu, their father,
Valiant Enlil, their counselor, (Note: the god of the wind)
Ninurta, their herald,
Ennuge, their irrigator.
Ninigiku-Ea was also present with them;


Their words he repeats to the reed-hut:

'Reed-hut, reed-hut! Wall! Wall!
Reed-hut, hearken! Wall, reflect!
Man of Shuruppak, son of Ubar-Tutu,

Tear down (this) house, build a ship!
Give up possessions, seek thou life.
Despise property and keep the soul alive.

Aboard the ship take thou the seed of all living things.
The ship that thou shalt build,
Her dimensions shall be to measure.
Equal shall be her width and her length.
Like the Apsu thou shalt ceil her.'


I understood, and I said to Ea, my lord:

'Behold, my lord, what thou hast thus ordered,
I shall be honoured to carry out.
But what shall I answer the city, the people and elders?'


Ea opened his mouth to speak,
Saying to me, his servant:

'Thou shalt then thus speak unto them:
"I have learned that Enlil is hostile to me, (Note: the Spirit)
So that I cannot reside in your city,
Nor set my foot in Enlil's territory.
To the Deep I will therefore go down,
To dwell with my lord Ea.


But upon you he will shower down abundance,

The choicest birds, the rarest fishes.
The land shall have its fill of harvest riches.
He who at dusk orders the hush-greens,
Will shower down upon you a rain of wheat.
With the first glow of dawn,
The land was gathered about me.
(too fragmentary for translation]
The little ones carried bitumen,
While the grown ones brought all else that was needful.


On the fifth day I laid her framework.

One (whole) acre was her floor space, (660' X 660')
Ten dozen cubits the height of each of her walls,
Ten dozen cubits each edge of the square deck.
I laid out the shape of her sides and joined her together.
I provided her with six decks,
Dividing her (thus) into seven parts.


Her floor plan I divided into nine parts.

I hammered water-plugs into her.
I saw to the punting-poles and laid in supplies.
Six 'sar' (measures = 8,000 gallons), of bitumen I poured into the furnace,
Three sar of asphalt I also poured inside.
Three sar of the basket-bearers transferred,
Aside from the one sar of oil which the calking consumed,
And the two sar of oil which the boatman stowed away.


Bullocks I slaughtered for the people,

And I killed sheep every day.
Must, red wine, oil, and white wine
I gave the workmen to drink, as though river water,
That they might feast as on New Year's Day. . . .



On the seventh day the ship was completed.
The launching was very difficult,
So that they had to shift the floor planks above and below,
Until two-thirds of the structure had gone into the water.

Whatever I had I laded upon her.
Whatever I had of silver I laded upon her,
Whatever I had of gold I laded upon her,
Whatever I had of all the living beings I laded upon her.
All my family and kin I made go aboard the ship.
The beasts of the field, the wild creatures of the field,
All the craftsmen I made go aboard.


Shamash (Sumerian sun god) had set for me a stated time:

'When he who orders unease at night
Will shower down a rain of blight,
Board thou the ship and batten up the gate!'


That stated time had arrived:

'He who orders unease at night showers down a rain of blight.'
I watched the appearance of the weather.
The weather was awesome to behold.
I boarded the ship and battened up the gate.


To batten up the (whole) ship, to Puzar-Amurri, the boatman,
I handed over the structure together with its contents.

With the first glow of dawn,
A black cloud rose up from the horizon.
Inside it Adad thunders,
While Shallat and Hanish go in front,
Moving as heralds over hill and plain.
Erragal tears out the posts;
Forth comes Ninurta and causes the dikes to follow.
The Anunnaki lift up the torches,
Setting the land ablaze with their glare.
Consternation over Adad reaches to the heavens,


Turning to blackness all that had been light.

The wide land was shattered like a pot!
For one day the south-storm blew,

Gathering speed as it blew, submerging the mountains,
Overtaking the people like a battle.
No one can see his fellow,
Nor can the people be recognized from heaven.


The gods were frightened by the deluge,

And, shrinking back, they ascended to the heaven of Anu.
The gods cowered like dogs
Crouched against the outer wall.


Ishtar cried out like a woman in travail,

The sweet-voiced mistress of the gods moans aloud:

'The olden days are alas turned to clay,
Because I bespoke evil in the Assembly of the gods,

How could I bespeak evil in the Assembly of the gods,
Ordering battle for the destruction of my people,
When it is I myself who give birth to my people!


Like the spawn of the fishes they fill the sea!'

The Anunnaki gods weep with her,
he gods, all humbled, sit and weep,
Their lips drawn tight. . . . one and all.



Six days and six nights
Blows the flood wind, as the south-storm sweeps the land.
When the seventh day arrived,
The flood (-carrying) south-storm subsided in the battle,
Which it had fought like an army.
The sea-grew quiet, the tempest was still, the flood ceased.
I looked at the weather. stillness had set in,
And all of mankind had returned to clay.


The landscape was as level as a flat roof.

I opened a hatch, and light fell on my face.
Bowing low, I sat and wept,
Tears running down my face.
I looked about for coast lines in the expanse of the sea:
In each of fourteen (regions)
There emerged a region (-mountain).

On Mount Nisir the ship came to a halt.
Mount Nisir held the ship fast,
Allowing -no motion.


[For six days the ship is held fast by Mount Nisir.]

When the seventh day arrived,
I sent forth and set free a dove.
The dove went forth, but came back;
There was no resting-place for it and she turned round.

Then I sent forth and set free a swallow.
The swallow went forth, but came back,
There was no resting-place for it and she turned round.

Then I sent forth and set free a raven.
The raven went forth and, seeing that the waters had diminished,
He eats, circles, caws, and turns not round.


Then I let out (all) to the four winds

And offered a sacrifice.
I poured out a libation on the top of the mountain.
Seven and seven cult-vessels I set up,
Upon their plate-stands I heaped cane, cedarwood, and myrtle.

The gods smelled the savour,
The gods smelled the sweet savour,
The gods crowded like flies about the sacrificer.


As soon as the great goddess arrived,

She lifted up the great jewels which Anu had fashioned to her liking:
'Ye gods here, as surely as this lapis
Upon my neck I shall -not forget,
I shall be mindful of these days, forgetting (them) never.
Let the gods come to the offering:


(But) let not Enlil (wind or spirit) come to the offering,

For he, unreasoning, brought on the deluge
And my people consigned to destruction.'

As soon as Enlil arrived,
And saw the ship, Enlil was wroth,
He was filled with wrath against the Igigi gods:


'Has some living soul escaped?

No man was to survive the destruction!'
Ninurta opened his mouth to speak,
Saying to valiant Enlil:

'Who other than Ea can devise plans?
It is Ea alone who knows every matter.'
Ea opened his mouth to speak,
Saying to valiant Enlil:

'Thou wisest of the gods, thou hero,
How couldst thou, unreasoning, bring on the deluge?
On the sinner impose his sin,
On the transgressor impose his transgression!


(Yet) be lenient, lest he be cut off, Be patient,
lest he be dislodged

Instead of thy bringing on the deluge,

Would that a lion had risen up to diminish mankind!

Instead of thy brining on the deluge,

Would that a wolf had risen up to diminish mankind!

Instead of thy bringing on the deluge,

Would that a famine had risen up to lay low mankind!

Instead of thy bringing on the deluge,

Would that pestilence had risen up to smite down mankind!


It was not I who disclosed the secret of the great gods.

I let Atrahasis (epithed of Utnapishtim) see a dream,
And he perceived the secret of the gods.
Now then take counsel in regard to him!'


Thereupon Enlil went aboard the ship.
Holding me by the hand, he took me aboard.
He took my wife aboard and made (her) kneel by my side.
Standing between us, he touched our foreheads to bless us:

'Hitherto Utnapishtim (Noah) has been but human.
Henceforth Utnapishtim and his wife shall be like unto us gods.
Utnapishtim shall reside far away, at the mouth of the rivers!'
Thus they took me and made me reside far away,
At the mouth of the rivers.

[freeman craig]

above is a translation from one of the tablets of the epic of gilgamesh

[freeman craig]

Introduction: Unknown to most people, the Australian Aborigines have many traditions surprisingly similar to parts of the book of Genesis, especially those regarding Creation and Noah’s Flood. In fact, Flood stories which include the saving of only a few people and animals, are found in many cultures worldwide and provide fascinating circumstantial evidence that the common ancestor of Aborigines, Jews, and indeed all modern races of man was Noah. The Genesis account, however, is the most detailed and systematic of them all.

To refresh your memory, here is a brief summary of the major events associated with Noah’s Flood, as found in Genesis 6 - 9.

1. Men had become exceedingly evil and violent.
2. Only Noah pleased God.
3. God warned Noah He would send a flood as judgement upon this terrible evil.
4. God instructed Noah to build a boat for his family and forthe animalsthat Hewould send to the boat.
5. The waters of the flood covered the whole earth, including the mountains.
6. All men and animals not on the boat were destroyed.
7. Noah first sent out a raven, and then a dove, to find out whether the land was dry.
8. When the dove returned with an olive leaf in its mouth Noah knew the land was dry enough to allow everybody off the ark
9. God sent the rainbow as a sign that He would never again destroy the earth by a flood.
10. All living men and animals are descendants of those who came off the ark

The points of interest in the 3 following Aboriginal traditions are in bold type and any similarity to the Genesis story is indicated in the margin.

Differences in the flood traditions are also relevant. The Genesis record talks of there being only one race of man from the time of the flood until the towerof Babel. At the tower of Babel, God dispersed the people over the surface of the world by giving them different languages. It is therefore to be expected that the stories of the flood would contain not only profound similarities but also differences. These differences would be due to both the confusion of tongues and the varying relationships to the true God which cultures had.
The Flood
(As told by Albert Barangga)

In ancient times the sea made the watermarks on the mountains and ranges. For example Mt. House, Mt. Waterloo, Mt. Hann all have these watermarks, they are right on top. The reason for this flood was men killed the old woman’s third son, the one she loved.

This old lady went down and speared the ‘eye’ of the sea. It is said that she was staying on Nowulu Island. The son was dear to her. They told her “They have killed him; already they have taken his life”, they told her. “Ah”, she said. She wept once and did not weep again. “I’ll finish them” she said. She went over to a place called Garajin and there she speared and poked the small ‘hole’ in the sea. The sea went back and back exceedingly, it sucked it right out. The place was left hard and dry and the fish were flapping about on the hard (bottom) place for there was no water. At that time the mountains were made.

We say, the present tides don’t rise like this. For this sea travelled across like a range to them. The mountains sank beneath it. Then she finished them. They were drowned. While still there was no water, that is at the time when it disappeared, she picked up turtle and fish and took them up to the top of the hill at Nowulu The place is called Nowulu, it’s an island, that the place she climbed up to. Here she remained and dug for water right on the top Then that one - the sea - was travelling and all the mainland was underneath it. That was the time it went back. That time it finished them; it drowned all those men. Only those who climbed right on top, over there, only those may be living. Then they returned this way. that was the sea that drowned all the men of that generation on the earth. Then (that time) they made themselves into turtle and fish and now those of that generation are living creatures in the sea. They were people first but they made themselves sea- creatures. The sea drowned them all.
Similarities to Genesis

* The Flood was a judgement upon evil. It was sent to destroy all men.
* The Flood covered the mountains.
* All the land was covered. Only a few were spared.
* All other men were drowned.

The Bundaba Flood Story
As told by Jimmy Bird.

Long, long ago there was a great flood. It originated from the fact of some children who found the ‘winking’ owl in a tree and plucked out all its feathers. They forced a grass reed through its nose and treated the bird most shamefully. The bird flew without wings, into the heavens and showed himself to Ngowungu, the Great Father. Ngowungu became very angry and decided to drown the people.

Later the people saw a small cloud rising which grew bigger and bigger till it spread all over the sky. The thunder began to roll and crash and the people were greatly afraid.

With the rain and thunder was a terrible wind which broke great limbs off trees and rooted up others. During this terrible storm there was a noise above the awful crashes of thunder. This noise was coming from the north. The salt water, the sea, came pouring over the ranges from the north. The flood rose higher and higher till all the land was covered except the tops of two or three mountains.

From further west a man and his wives with a dog were battling their way in a canoe when a bird with a leaf in its mouth flew in front of them showing them the way to Mt. Broome. They eventually reached Mt. Broome and landed there where some other survivors were.

Then Djabalgari, the great left-handed man incised his little finger and let the blood trickle down into the flood waters. The waters began to go down and eventually disappeared off the country. All other people were drowned.
Similarities to Genesis

* The flood was sent to judge wickedness.
* God sent the flood to drown all the people.
* It began to rain.
* All the land was covered.
* A man and his wife in a boat with an animal.
* A bird with a leaf in its mouth was the sign of dry land.
* They landed on a mountain. All other people drowned.
* There was a sacrifice of blood at the end of the flood.

A Western Desert Tradition

(contributed by W.H. Douglas)

KURANGARA

Long ago, in the Creation country across the sea to the west, some people saw these red-legged birds strutting along with their heads moving up and down. Whenever the people approached them they moved forward always keeping the same distance between themselves and their followers.

There were millions of these birds, and they were much taller than they are today. The men followed them to discover where they were all going. The birds walked east and eventually led the men to the coast of Australia. They stepped out of the sea where Fremantle is today, then turned north and walked up the coast. The men continued to follow them. When they reached the point just below where Port Hedland is now situated the great flood came.

The sky opened and the water poured down in a great deluge. Many people were drowned, but some were saved on mangrove boats. They paddled towards the ranges in Central Australia, the Mardudjara people (now camped at Jigalong) leading the way. They were the first people to take dogs to the centre of the continent.

At last they reached the MacDonnell Ranges, but then the receding waters turned to ice. By this time, another group of people had come into the north of Australia, so this southern group was trapped. At this stage, the ’Watt Kutiara’ the itwo gods’ came into action and began digging a way through the ranges, but this method proved too slow and the people would have perished before they could be freed. So, the Wati Kutjara blasted their way through, cleaving the ranges apart (as at Stanley Chasm) and so opened an escape route. The people surged forward with great relief and passed through the opening to salvation. However, they were faced with a great disappointment, for beyond the range there was only a great empty land.
Similarities to Genesis

* A Great Flood.
* The heavens opened.
* Some were saved on boats.
* Their animal too.
* The boats went to the mountains.

[dedicate]

OK. That's fine. So. Seems that it is confirming what the Bible tells of. If the flood happened only 10,000 years ago (and I'm not sure it did).. then one would expect the flood to be part of everyday knowledge or legend for many thousands of years after that.

The flood happened. People wrote about it. People spoke about it. Science is saying it could have been. No big surprise. What's the point you are trying to make with all this?

[freeman craig]

"contemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance " Albert Einstein

So there was a flood. And there are records of it across the globe, (or so you say)

[dedicate]

Yes. You said there were records of it. I didn't know of any. I didn't say there were not records. I said what does it matter there are records. What is your point in all this.

Those Sumarian tablets have an unknown language on them. I don't really believe that what archeaologist say is written on those tablets is really what those tablets read.. ever! But irregardless, even if they do tell of a flood ... what's the point you are making? We are still miles away from understanding the "source" of religion.

[freeman craig]

its a bit pointless trying to have a debate with you when any evidence from scholars scientists or any ohther educated people express a different opinion to you from thier findings you dismiss it by saying i wouldnt believe what they say. sort of defeats the point of having any sort of debate with you. your only evidence you can produce is your dogma.

[dedicate]

Actually, I'm making a stitch and threading it faster than you can think it thru. That's the problem. You want to make it like I'm the bad guy here.. that is not what is happening.

But yes, if you are going to just repeat what some scholar or scientist has been saying on the subject, I wouldn't want to get into it. I can research what scientist say about annunaki and Bible origins myself. I would rather hear what you have to say about it.

[dedicate]

Where did religion come from? What is it's source and it's origin? What we find is that the true origins of what we call religions today are buried under tons of rock and 1,000's of years of history. No way to determine where or when the Hebrews got their religion looking outside of religious/spiritual sources. No amount of studing "Bible History" books, archealogical evidence,, or VonDoniken is going to lead you toward much valuable information.

The Bible though, does state the religion began with Adam and passed on through his descendants to Noah. Then it was somewhat lost but delivered to Abraham via Melchizadek. What happened after that, not much is known but somehow God himself felt it important to promote the religion of the descendants of Abraham via Moses and the rest is what we call our human history. But there is no record of most of these things other than the Bible, which states the Christian religion had it's roots in the Gen R Den -- garden of eden.

The Bhagavad Gita states.

"In the beginning of the Treta-yuga [millennium] this science of the relationship with the Supreme was delivered by Vivasvan to Manu. Manu, being the father of mankind, gave it to his son Maharaja Iksvaku, the king of this earth planet and forefather of the Raghu dynasty in which Lord Ramacandra appeared." Therefore, Bhagavad-gita existed in the human society from the time of Maharaja Iksvaku.

At the present moment we have just passed through five thousand years of the Kali-yuga, which lasts 432,000 years. Before this there was the Dvapara-yuga (800,000 years), and before that there was Treta-yuga (1,200,000 years). Thus, some 2,005,000 years ago, Manu spoke the Bhagavad-gita to his disciple and son Maharaja Iksvaku, the king of this planet earth. The age of the current Manu is calculated to last some 305,300,000 years, of which 120,400,000 have passed. Accepting that before the birth of Manu, the Gita was spoken by the Lord to His disciple, the sun-god Vivasvan, a rough estimate is that the Gita was spoken at least 120,400,000 years ago

So this thing called religion is timeless... no begining and no end.

[freeman craig]

Where did religion come from? What is it's source and it's origin? What we find is that the true origins of what we call religions today are buried under tons of rock and 1,000's of years of history. No way to determine where or when the Hebrews got their religion looking outside of religious/spiritual sources. No amount of studing "Bible History" books, archealogical evidence,, or VonDoniken is going to lead you toward much valuable information.

we will have to agree to disagree on that one i think there is plenty of evidence suggesting where the abrahamic religions came from. The fact that it states in the bible that abraham came from the land of sumer but yet you think there is no point in studying sumer text means we will just go round round in circles debating that one.

hinduism is fascinating and i have read the gita many years ago i will read it again as i have forgotten alot of its contents. Again these scriptures contain no real evidence and can only been seen as speculation one mans interpertation they are dated between 5th and the 2nd century BCE. To talk about man being on this planet since 120,400,000 bc is absolute nuts just because it says so in scripts doesnt mean its the truth by anymeans. Religion is just man's beliefs so its been about since man's existance so isnt timeless it started when man was born and will end when man does. Man is only a material manifestation of conciousness at this present time hopefully as our conciousness evolves we wont need these restrictive bodies anymore and we can be pure conciousness.

[1776]

Where did religion come from? What is it's source and it's origin? What we find is that the true origins of what we call religions today are buried under tons of rock and 1,000's of years of history. No way to determine where or when the Hebrews got their religion looking outside of religious/spiritual sources. No amount of studing "Bible History" books, archealogical evidence,, or VonDoniken is going to lead you toward much valuable information.

we will have to agree to disagree on that one i think there is plenty of evidence suggesting where the abrahamic religions came from. The fact that it states in the bible that abraham came from the land of sumer but yet you think there is no point in studying sumer text means we will just go round round in circles debating that one.

hinduism is fascinating and i have read the gita many years ago i will read it again as i have forgotten alot of its contents. Again these scriptures contain no real evidence and can only been seen as speculation one mans interpertation they are dated between 5th and the 2nd century BCE. To talk about man being on this planet since 120,400,000 bc is absolute nuts just because it says so in scripts doesnt mean its the truth by anymeans. Religion is just man's beliefs so its been about since man's existance so isnt timeless it started when man was born and will end when man does. Man is only a material manifestation of conciousness at this present time hopefully as our conciousness evolves we wont need these restrictive bodies anymore and we can be pure conciousness.


William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 1/5
William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 1/5 - YouTube

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 2/5
William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 2/5 - YouTube

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 3/5
William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 2/5 - YouTube

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 4/5
William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 4/5 - YouTube

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 5/5
William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 5/5 - YouTube


Those are a great start for you, and will hopefully answer some of your questions. Bill was very, very well learned in this area of knowledge. Please give those a listen, I'm sure you will benefit from them, as I have.

[freeman craig]

excellent thanks 1776 i will watch those later tonight

[marpat]

the Babylonian empire didnt start till 729 BC thats 9000 years of civilisation not accounted for. i think that it did have a major impact on judaism due to the evidence thats suggest that this was when the torah was written although most jews value other scriptures more as they are said to come from a older source.

Dont forget that moses was raised in the house of pharoh so in fact the bible may be based in Egyptian religion. Some of the laws of the bible can be found the the negative confession in Egyptian religion.

[freeman craig]

yeah i totally agree marpat in fact there is quite a alot of evidence to suggest moses was not just raised in the house of pharoh but was in fact pharoh Akhenaten's son. So the exodus could of been a group of people returning to the site of the garden of eden in thier attempt to return to the old ways away from the power hungry priests that were trying to get power back. The similarities between the Egyptian religion and the old testament one example the ten commandants is to great to just write off. I think judaism was born in Egypt and then was put to paper in the form of the torah in babylon. I mean the star of david is two pyramids overlaying each other. Thats why i think the abrahamic religions can be traced back alot further then babylon right back as far as the garden of eden site in lebanon after the great flood 10,500 bc roughly. Below are great lectures explaining the theory far better then i can on here if anyone is interested.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7632385287998589429&ei=qcNDS8OoB4aJ-Aamn4jwBQ&q=edmund+marriage#


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9112964802576594587&ei=qcNDS8OoB4aJ-Aamn4jwBQ&q=edmund+marriage#

[octopusrex]

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 1/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzaFr_JN34

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 2/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwFbItohcsI

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 3/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwFbItohcsI

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 4/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY-JZrdBGOc

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 5/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkuhyAXSeaw


Those are a great start for you, and will hopefully answer some of your questions. Bill was very, very well learned in this area of knowledge. Please give those a listen, I'm sure you will benefit from them, as I have.

I stopped at the first video. Here's a fellow telling us that all this societies have 'infiltrated all of society'... DUH. THEY BUILT IT!:D

[1776]

I stopped at the first video. Here's a fellow telling us that all this societies have 'infiltrated all of society'... DUH. THEY BUILT IT!:D

No shit, sherlock. :p

If you checked out Cooper's work you'd see that's what he says.

You're registered on this site and aren't already familiar with him and his work? Have you read 'Behold a Pale Horse' or watched any of his lectures?

[old major]

No shit, sherlock. :p

swearing christians make me sad. :(

[octopusrex]

No shit, sherlock. :p

If you checked out Cooper's work you'd see that's what he says.

You're registered on this site and aren't already familiar with him and his work? Have you read 'Behold a Pale Horse' or watched any of his lectures?

I have a lot of information to sift thought. I've scanned some films yeah.

Now let's go a little further... Are you praying to destroy all they have built?

[noobcybot]

If one asks where did spiritualism come from I would have to agree it had no beginning or end as far as we know. Religion as we know it though, probably has a timeline we can approach.

What we do know is that at around 40,000 years ago perhaps more human beings began to explore the astral realms and understand the nature of reality, they were probably taught or learned the sparks of civilisation that changed humans from bipedal animals to civilised nations by these means.

Who the teachers actually are we dont know. Aliens, angels, deamons, higher self incarnations, god/s our own DNA or collective consciousness, nobody at our level of understanding can be sure.

We know that the humans at the time were going through some kind of change because cave paintings catagorically show auras/bi-location/multiple consciousness, shapeshifting beings, greylien humanoids/owl people/insect people, gnomes elfs harlequins or whatever you want to designate them, flying craft and high technology, human energy fields and auras, depictions of cyclical time, sacred geometry and mathematics and many more of the things we associate with astral planes.

Think about what that means yall, the very first baby steps of civilisation were mainly concearned with explaining the etheric realms. Altered states induced by dancing, ritual, meditation, drugs etc... brought this about.

Heres where religion comes in.

Those people who first entered the astral planes accidentaly or on purpose and were given knowledge were at an enormous advantage now. Note nearly all aborigional cultures have some sort or medicine man establishment. And so the medicine man could become wise and by conversing with the spirits of the astral he/she could lead their tribe and become more powerful. He could for example ask spirits to heal sickness or draught, they could divine and read by clouds etc... Thus the tribe flourished and so did medicine man.

But there can only be so many keepers of the big Kahuna and thus a caste type system forms in human society where everyone fullfills a goal, workers warriors nobles.
There is only one caste system that operates outside such a powerful formula and that is the priest class. They interact with all classes and are respected by all, and most often when things turn bad they dont get executed... thus it is the best position and helpfully does not involve them in politics war or work if they choose not to be involved.

I put forward then that this class, the shamen of old are the Illuminati (in more ways than one) today. Knowledge is power and they have that. They invented religion as a sort of watered down version of their ritualistic spiritualism and let the people have God lite. Giving us a glimpse of the spiritual skies now and again but not enough for us to actually do anything about it.

For example the Pharoes in my opinion did not rule Egypt, their magicians did. This is not a stretch considering what we now know about the use of sigils and ritual magic in the modern day.

[1776]

swearing christians make me sad. :(

Nobody's perfect :)

I have a lot of information to sift thought. I've scanned some films yeah.

Now let's go a little further... Are you praying to destroy all they have built?

Can you expand your question, that's kind of broad, and very vague.

[freeman craig]

If one asks where did spiritualism come from I would have to agree it had no beginning or end as far as we know. Religion as we know it though, probably has a timeline we can approach.

What we do know is that at around 40,000 years ago perhaps more human beings began to explore the astral realms and understand the nature of reality, they were probably taught or learned the sparks of civilisation that changed humans from bipedal animals to civilised nations by these means.

Who the teachers actually are we dont know. Aliens, angels, deamons, higher self incarnations, god/s our own DNA or collective consciousness, nobody at our level of understanding can be sure.

We know that the humans at the time were going through some kind of change because cave paintings catagorically show auras/bi-location/multiple consciousness, shapeshifting beings, greylien humanoids/owl people/insect people, gnomes elfs harlequins or whatever you want to designate them, flying craft and high technology, human energy fields and auras, depictions of cyclical time, sacred geometry and mathematics and many more of the things we associate with astral planes.

Think about what that means yall, the very first baby steps of civilisation were mainly concearned with explaining the etheric realms. Altered states induced by dancing, ritual, meditation, drugs etc... brought this about.

Heres where religion comes in.

Those people who first entered the astral planes accidentaly or on purpose and were given knowledge were at an enormous advantage now. Note nearly all aborigional cultures have some sort or medicine man establishment. And so the medicine man could become wise and by conversing with the spirits of the astral he/she could lead their tribe and become more powerful. He could for example ask spirits to heal sickness or draught, they could divine and read by clouds etc... Thus the tribe flourished and so did medicine man.

But there can only be so many keepers of the big Kahuna and thus a caste type system forms in human society where everyone fullfills a goal, workers warriors nobles.
There is only one caste system that operates outside such a powerful formula and that is the priest class. They interact with all classes and are respected by all, and most often when things turn bad they dont get executed... thus it is the best position and helpfully does not involve them in politics war or work if they choose not to be involved.

I put forward then that this class, the shamen of old are the Illuminati (in more ways than one) today. Knowledge is power and they have that. They invented religion as a sort of watered down version of their ritualistic spiritualism and let the people have God lite. Giving us a glimpse of the spiritual skies now and again but not enough for us to actually do anything about it.

For example the Pharoes in my opinion did not rule Egypt, their magicians did. This is not a stretch considering what we now know about the use of sigils and ritual magic in the modern day.

great input thanks lots of points i also agree on i would like to respond to the issues you raised but its 4.30 am and i need a few hours sleep so i will wait till tonight.

[freeman craig]

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 1/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzaFr_JN34

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 2/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwFbItohcsI

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 3/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwFbItohcsI

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 4/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY-JZrdBGOc

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon) Golden Dawn of Man 5/5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkuhyAXSeaw


Those are a great start for you, and will hopefully answer some of your questions. Bill was very, very well learned in this area of knowledge. Please give those a listen, I'm sure you will benefit from them, as I have.

right i have watched those clips bit confused as to what he is actually getting at. Is he claiming that the theory of evolution and astrology come from babylon and are what is being taught in these so called mystery schools?

[1776]

right i have watched those clips bit confused as to what he is actually getting at. Is he claiming that the theory of evolution and astrology come from babylon and are what is being taught in these so called mystery schools?

William Cooper (Mystery Babylon)2001 Space Oddesy/DawnOfMan Pt 1/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urM3sqlyIZA&feature=PlayList&p=1C9DC934F58AC2AD&index=5

I suggest listening to the entire "Mystery Babylon" audio series recorded by the late William Cooper to understand the context and the entirety of his view(s).

It's a most excellent audio collection, and the first thing I usually recommend to people to do when being exposed to this stuff for the very first time. It's an excellent foundation to build upon, in my own humble opinion.

[freeman craig]

ok will do but i must say his accuracy of facts is really poor

[1776]

ok will do but i must say his accuracy of facts is shocking

Yes! I spent a good portion of an entire month over a year ago just cross-referencing EVERYTHING I could from his "Mystery Babylon" series, and it was astounding to say the very least...

Here's a direct download link for the entire series: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4207316/Complete_and_Unedited_Mystery_Babylon_-_Bill_Cooper

Enjoy!

[1776]

ok will do but i must say his accuracy of facts is really poor

Shocking as in "poor"?

I found the very opposite in my cross-referencing..... can you show me what you have found?

[freeman craig]

i haven't watched that other vid yet its 5.40 and i havent been to sleep so i will watch it tonight. I will reply later tonight if thats ok im shattered need some sleep. Have you read my other posts on this thread and watched the vids i posted a link for ?

[freeman craig]

Shocking as in "poor"?

I found the very opposite in my cross-referencing..... can you show me what you have found?

ok firstly his retelling of the evolution theory is very sketchy at best and the theory itself has absolutely nothing to do with babylon and the so called mystery schools. As we all know this theory was developed by Darwin through extensive scientific research and can be proved without a doubt through fossil records. This theory in no way shape or form disproves the existence of god/conciousness on the contrary with the emergance of quantum biology were beginning to understand it was in fact god/conciousness that was the driving force behind evolution. Darwin did not have this knowledge of quantum science as it was not discovered at that time so he had to come to his conclusions that the driving force was random mutations and natural selection. This isnt darwins fault he came to his conclusions with the scientific knowledge he had at the time. Just like when scientists thought the earth was flat because if it wasnt we would all fall off. quite good logic at the time but they didnt understand the laws of gravity so came to the wrong conclusion. Another example is when scientists couldnt accept that the earth was spinning because if you spun a bowl of water all the water would be pushed to the outside so therfore thier logic at that time was if the earth was spinning all our oceans would be forced off the planet. Thier logic was right at the time but only because they didnt understand the other laws of science. Science isnt about disproving the existance of god/conciousness the laws of science are the same as the laws of god its his creation so how can they be different. The church has held back mankinds understanding of the universe which is just wrong. Galilieo was threated with excommunication and being called a heretic for daring to state the fact that the earth went round the sun therefore was not the center of the universe. It took nearly 200 years before it could be excepted as fact. This is not acceptable fact is fact truth is the truth just beacuse it goes against certain peoples dogma doesnt mean its wrong at all. The links below explain the theory of quantum biology and i think he mentions why darwins theory is outdated in his lecture.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8506668136396723343&ei=w9FES4L0Cdq8-AbM4p3lBQ&q=bruce+lipton#

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6568107389365915765&ei=w9FES4L0Cdq8-AbM4p3lBQ&q=bruce+lipton#

[orlibonurb]

ok firstly his retelling of the evolution theory is very sketchy at best and the theory itself has absolutely nothing to do with babylon and the so called mystery schools. As we all know this theory was developed by Darwin through extensive scientific research and can be proved without a doubt through fossil records.

Evolution gets OWNED!!! LOL Hilarious 0:36 sec.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


Stop believing every piece of garbage they fill your mouth with. What a joke ! There is no science behind the RELIGION of evolution. No wonder we learn this piece of crap straight from the Devil's teachings in the public schools and universities of endocrination !


This religion debunked here:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/The_Unhived_Mind_II/index.php?showtopic=22382

http://www.evolutionhoax.com/

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/evolution_the_big_hoax.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/4000.htm

http://www.rlhymersjr.com/Online_Sermons/03-30-03PM_EvolutionIsAHoax.htm

http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/evolmore.htm

http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html

evolution theory debunked - Google Search


David Icke at least said one thing right: the lot of you are nothing but "REPEATERS". Endocrinated naife repeaters.

[freeman craig]

Bill also states that judaism came from babylon there is more then enough evidence to prove its egyptian origins. If you look into the pharoah akhenaten you will see that this was the only pharoah to introduce monotheism into thier culture. This caused a major upset he claimed the only path to god was through him so basically put the powerful preisthood out of a job over night. He moved the capital city from thebes away from the clutches of the priests and built a new city from scratch out of the desert a major undertaking. There is some evidence that suggests he had a son with one of his foreign concubines his name was tuthmosis. This was tutankamun's step brother. When akhenaten died there was a massive power struggle to take control with the priest desperate to get thier power back. Tutankamun was placed on the throne and the old religion was restored by the priests. The theory being that tuthmosis is moses and wanted to carry on the monothesim religion but had to escape from egypt to do so. The dates are around 1300's bc this also coincides with a possible geological event that could of caused the 10 plagues of eygpt. This was the volcanic eruption of thera in the meditarian sea. This could of also explain the parting of the red sea. The red sea is a mis translation of reed sea. A place called the reed sea can be traced to a area on the mediterian coast lin sea on the north pennisular of the sinai. This would also be the best passage of the exodus .After the massive volcanic eruption the volcano caved in on its self and caused half of the island to collapse into the ocean this caused a massive sunami. When sunami's are caused in this way you get a massive drawing in of sea water from the coast ( the parting of the sea) as the water is drawn in to feed the massive wave. This would of eposed the reed sea bed enabling you to get across it. If there was a chasing party after them in chariots they would of got stuck and when that wave came in they would of been in deep trouble and probably drowned. The many facts that are stated in the beginning of the zeitgiest movie about the links between eygptian beliefs and judaism are all true and cant really be dismissed. The mistake in that movie is that just because there is astrological and symbolic sun over lay over the storys in the bible then it all must be made up. This is wrong as they dont consider the context that it was written in nor the historical figures nor the geological events at this time. The astrological overlay which you cant deny that there is one is the scribes attempts to date the events. There wasnt a gregorian type calander that will have today many different cultures had different calenders and they also changed with time. The only way you can permantly fix a time to these events is to use something that was permenant and that never changed. The precession of the equinoxes was known through out the ancient cultures they knew that no matter what happened on earth the precession would carry on therefore placing a astrological over lay of aries on the story of moses would date the events to the age of aries. The same thing can be said of the pisces overlay in the jesus story no matter how far ahead of those times we go we could always trace it back to that time of that age. The solar symbolism i think is two fold firstly to attatch greatness to the charactors. The ancient people knew the importance of the sun as being a life giver i mean who doesnt like the sun its snowing here at the mo and im thinking of doing a little sun dance myself. So to attach solar attributes to jesus is symbolizing his greatness. Secondly it makes it easier for pagan peoples to be converted when its made to be similar to thier beliefs as much as it can which helps to convert as many people as they can. So to come to the conclusion that there is a astrological and sun symbolism overlay to many scriptures doesnt prove them to be false and is a bit narrow minded. saying that if we really want to get to the truth of the teachings of all these sages/gurus/men of god we need to strip away all the non- important elements of the story's like

astrological overlay - just there as a date
solar symbolism - just is that symbol of greatness
mistranslation errors - from language to language
misinterpretations - human error just getting the wrong end of the stick
manipulation of contents - stuff thats added for control and power
cultural elements - purely cultural stuff thats there and has nothing to do with the beliefs

Only then when all this is stripped away can we really see and understand what the true teachings of our spiritual teachers actually was. There are many spiritual teachers in all walks of cultures and religions christainity doesnt hold the monoply on men of god all our teachers went on different paths to receive spiritual enlightenment and acheived the same end product to find god/conciousness.

Anyway im not a prophet these are only my beliefs im not saying im right its just my conclusions at this present time on my own path. My beliefs arent set in stone and will change in my search for the truth.

[freeman craig]

Evolution gets OWNED!!! LOL Hilarious 0:36 sec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBwXFBBXcS0


Stop believing every piece of garbage they fill your mouth with. What a joke ! There is no science behind the RELIGION of evolution. No wonder we learn this piece of crap straight from the Devil's teachings in the public schools and universities of endocrination !


This religion debunked here:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/The_Unhived_Mind_II/index.php?showtopic=22382



http://www.evolutionhoax.com/

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/evolution_the_big_hoax.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/4000.htm

http://www.rlhymersjr.com/Online_Sermons/03-30-03PM_EvolutionIsAHoax.htm

http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/evolmore.htm

http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=evolution+theory+debunked&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g1


David Icke at least said one thing right: the lot of you are nothing but "REPEATERS". Endocrinated naife repeaters.

orlinonurb you would of been one of those people that said the earth doesnt go round the sun and that the earth is the center of the universe. i always try not to be judgmental but my god your stupid.

[orlibonurb]

So, you call others stupid when you claim fossils prove, without a doubt, evolution is real.

[orlibonurb]

definition of stupidity is evangelism i actually think my left bo****k has a higher IQ. There is no point in having a argument/dicussion/debate with you are the worse type of repeater you take your beliefs from someonelses without questioning them for yourself thats the height of stupidity. All you seem to do on this forum is highjack other peoples threads with aload of crap. just sit at home and wait for the rapture like a good christian and stop hassling other good people thier lives have nothing to do with you.

ok firstly his retelling of the evolution theory is very sketchy at best and the theory itself has absolutely nothing to do with babylon and the so called mystery schools. As we all know this theory was developed by Darwin through extensive scientific research and can be proved without a doubt through fossil records.

Evolution gets OWNED!!! LOL Hilarious 0:36 sec.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


without questioning them for yourself thats the height of stupidity.



http://z10.invisionfree.com/The_Unhived_Mind_II/index.php?showtopic=22382

http://www.evolutionhoax.com/

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/evolution_the_big_hoax.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/4000.htm

http://www.rlhymersjr.com/Online_Sermons/03-30-03PM_EvolutionIsAHoax.htm

http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/evolmore.htm

http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=evolution+theory+debunked&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g1


one more link I forgot,

Walter J. Veith Testimony
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

"This is the story behind Walter J. Veith on how he came to the truth about evolution and his spiritual awakening."


Psalms {14:1} The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good. {14:2} The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, [and] seek God. {14:3} They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.

[freeman craig]

repeat repeat repeat

Have you actually studied the theory of evolution ?
Have you studied the theory of quantum biology?
are these all evanglist sites you have just listed ?

[orlibonurb]

Have you ?

Let's see,


ok firstly his retelling of the evolution theory is very sketchy at best and the theory itself has absolutely nothing to do with babylon and the so called mystery schools. As we all know this theory was developed by Darwin through extensive scientific research and can be proved without a doubt through fossil records.

Evolution gets OWNED!!! LOL Hilarious 0:36 sec.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

"Fossils don't prove evolution"


Or have you been endocrinated ?

[freeman craig]

yep

[freeman craig]

your sources are evanglistic sources endocrinated to suit your beliefs not main stream science. There is a missing link from cro magnon to homo sapiens but fossil evidence has everything else pretty wrapped up in all other species and most of human evolution. darwin didnt just use fossils to draw his conclusions he used live specimens also if you knew anything about his work you would know this. I have looked into evangelism and have already drawn my conclusion about that sect of christainity. Your entitled to your beliefs and i shouldnt knock you for that. We will have to agree to disagree you wont change my mind on anything using evangelistic material as i personally think your all barmby. I not gonna try and change your mind why would i its your life you can do what you want. Im sure we both have better things to do with our lifes then go round and round in circles like a dog chasing his tail well i know i have anyway.

[orlibonurb]

We are on the same page then, because I won't be able to change your mind either.

If you want to end up in hell with your evolution books go for it. Your choice. Life is made of choices.

We agree to disagree.

[freeman craig]

yep see you down there lol only joking

the concept of hell and satan is another one we will have to agree to disagree on but thanks for your concearn if its geniune.

peace to you

[diamond dogs]

I would highly recommend the works of Ralph Ellis (a contributor to the site) and his-story..

He has written five books so far, which purport to explain every last facet of man's history. Under this new concept, the pyramids of Egypt become the central cathedral complex of the early Israelites, who were, in fact, the Hyksos Shepherd Kings of Lower Egypt.

Ralph has some highly interesting points of view and if you stay open to the information and connect the dots, you may find that you view the whole lineage of our biblical past completely differently.

Check out parts 1 & 2 of his interview...fascinating


http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rellis.htm

[jesusistruth]

the first religion started with some guy picking up a stone, closing his eyes and saying 'please help me'...its been all downhill since then.

SHOCKING MESSAGE (fasten your seat belt) - YouTube

[freeman craig]

I would highly recommend the works of Ralph Ellis (a contributor to the site) and his-story..

He has written five books so far, which purport to explain every last facet of man's history. Under this new concept, the pyramids of Egypt become the central cathedral complex of the early Israelites, who were, in fact, the Hyksos Shepherd Kings of Lower Egypt.

Ralph has some highly interesting points of view and if you stay open to the information and connect the dots, you may find that you view the whole lineage of our biblical past completely differently.

Check out parts 1 & 2 of his interview...fascinating


http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rellis.htm

thank you so so much diamond dogs what a fantanstic piece of research this is exactly the sort of info i was looking for when i started the thread it ties in with so much stuff that i have found elsewhere. this is absolultely brillant i've not heard of this researcher before i will have to go and get his books now cant thank you enough.

[branjo]

I would highly recommend the works of Ralph Ellis (a contributor to the site) and his-story..

He has written five books so far, which purport to explain every last facet of man's history. Under this new concept, the pyramids of Egypt become the central cathedral complex of the early Israelites, who were, in fact, the Hyksos Shepherd Kings of Lower Egypt.

Ralph has some highly interesting points of view and if you stay open to the information and connect the dots, you may find that you view the whole lineage of our biblical past completely differently.

Check out parts 1 & 2 of his interview...fascinating


http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rellis.htm

On Part 2 now, fascinating so far, cheers dude.

[freeman craig]

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rellis2.htm part2 for those that are interested bit more speculative but well worth looking into again very good research looking into the historical jesus.

[freeman craig]

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/ghancock.htm

this interview is really interesting aswell from one of my favourite authors. finger prints of the gods was one of the first books that got me interested in the alternative history of religion. Here he talks about the possible first human experience of conciousness around 40,000 years ago and how it may of lead to the start of all our religious belief systems accross the globe.

[diamond dogs]

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/ghancock.htm

this interview is really interesting aswell from one of my favourite authors. finger prints of the gods was one of the first books that got me interested in the alternative history of religion. Here he talks about the possible first human experience of conciousness around 40,000 years ago and how it may of lead to the start of all our religious belief systems accross the globe.


Many thanks freeman craig and another piece to the puzzle..it makes so much sense..it is a battle against human consciousness and experiences that he described 40,000 years ago. It is obvious that human consciousness has been supressed and many halucagenics outlawed also. It also ties in with the other researchers findings and the roots to the ancient religions..a learning experience... good stuff

[1977]

Anyway im not a prophet these are only my beliefs im not saying im right its just my conclusions at this present time on my own path. My beliefs arent set in stone and will change in my search for the truth.
All very interesting. Unfortunately, this forum has been lately overrun with a throng of gibbering cretins who seem determined to keep everyone wallowing in the same pit of ignorance as themselves.

Perhaps they should remember that the true meaning of the word "Logos" is "Reason".

[freeman craig]

All very interesting. Unfortunately, this forum has been lately overrun with a throng of gibbering cretins who seem determined to keep everyone wallowing in the same pit of ignorance as themselves.

Perhaps they should remember that the true meaning of the word "Logos" is "Reason".

yep it is a real shame but thats the effects of brainwashing i actually fear for them though. To accept anothers belief without questioning it has tragic results like 6 miilion dead in the holocaust scary stuff

[octopusrex]

yep it is a real shame but thats the effects of brainwashing i actually fear for them though. To accept anothers belief without questioning it has tragic results like 6 miilion dead in the holocaust scary stuff

Word.