armed militia in America on the rise

[bluefeather]

America's armed militia on the rise Extremist "patriot" groups and other armed militia have undergone a dramatic resurgence in America, their numbers more than doubling in the past year amid growing Right-wing fears over expanding federal power and gun control.

By Tom Leonard in New York
Published: 4:35PM GMT 31 Dec 2009

Such groups – a mix of libertarians, gun rights advocates and survivalists – appeared to be in terminal decline before the election of Barack Obama, according to monitoring bodies.

The Southern Poverty Law Centre, which tracks extremist organisations, says it has so far counted more than 300 patriot groups this year, at least double last year's total of 150. The real total will be much higher as many groups do not go out of their way to publicise their existence.


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However, SPLC researchers said there was a new race factor reflecting President Obama's ethnicity and immigration fears.

The groups themselves reject accusations of racism but agree that many members are deeply worried about gun control, are angered by the federal economic rescue packages, and are dismayed by government interference in areas such as health care. They voice frustration at what they perceive as America's international decline.

Tensions are running high and some fear major bloodshed springing from a minor event. A law enforcement official told the SPLC that "all that's lacking is a spark".

One of the new patriot groups is called Oath Keepers. Its members, like those in other groups, look for guidance from America's Founding Fathers.

Formed last spring, Oath Keepers' members – limited to current or former servicemen and police – swear to obey the US constitution rather than politicians.

Stewart Rhodes, the founder, told The Daily Telegraph that the situation was a "potential powder keg".

He said: "The one thing that would probably lead [groups] to armed resistance is if the government did try to confiscate weapons, but that was what finally led to fighting in the American Revolution".

Mike Vanderboegh, a former militia leader and founder of a vociferous gun rights group called the Three Percenters, pointed to a huge increase in sales of ammunition, many of it to new gun owners.

"This is far larger than Obama. It speaks to an existential fear of societal collapse," he said.

He said group members were looking for "practical self-defence", whether from "predatory government or street-level crime".

If the government carried out "another Waco" – the 1993 storming of a cult's Texas ranch, in which 76 occupants died – "you'd see a reaction bloody beyond belief", he added.

Heidi Beirich, a co-author of the SPLC's militia research, said the groups were characterised by "a lot of conspiracy mongering, gun nuttery and fear of a new world order that they think is controlling the US".

Conservatives have accused the SPLC and other monitoring groups of exaggerating the threat posed by such groups, although a Department of Homeland Security report in April voiced fears about rising extremism.

Mr Rhodes said his group's internet forum had 11,000 members. Its 10-point oath includes pledges not to disarm fellow Americans or force citizens into "any form of detention camps".

Mr Rhodes said: "I don't want to take it for granted that the destruction of the republic can't happen here." He said he had also attacked encroaching federal power under the Bush administration, adding: "They're refusing to acknowledge the fundamental American libertarian streak that says, 'We don't care who's in power, we don't like the expansion of executive power.'"

Jonathan White, a former police officer and academic who advises both the FBI and government on terrorism, said he was less worried by the threat from the organised patriot groups than from "lone wolf" individuals who would tend to dismiss militias as "a joke".

Richard Poplawski, a Pittsburgh man who shot dead three police officers in April, complained to friends that the government was infringing gun rights.


Er, they've noticed there's some pissed off folk out there then.:rolleyes:

[rydeon]

When the 2nd Amendment of the USA is to bear arms and have a militia what the heck do you expect?
Hippy's singing with flowers in their hair?

This is the people in the states letting big government know it's time to chill the fck out and cool their heels a touch.

[deca]

only us dummies in the uk would hand in our guns because of a couple of armed loonies went crazy with their "legal guns" in the street ..:confused: you think it would make people want to arm themselves!!!

[leviathanstaar]

Heidi Beirich, traitor.

[hertz]

Of course militia are on the rise in the US, they still have the right bear arms and their government is hell bent on taking that away. The only problem I can see with militias is the minority of hotheads and gung ho types that won't know when to pick a fight when they have to and when to keep their cool.. Too many loose cannons can capsize a ship you know. Look at the UK.. These are the guys with the guns:

http://www.idruna.com/images/PhojoCustomerPhotos/MaxNash.jpg

Kinda fucked. Nothing to fight back with if the government decides to get genocidal.

[motleyhoo]

These US militia groups are misguided and have no sense of perspective. They believe that because the Right claims to be for the 2nd ammendment, and claims to be for the "rural folk", and claims to be Christians, that the Right is for American freedom and Constitutional ideals. But the fact is, all of these claims are a pack of lies. The Right is just as fascist as the Left, and everything that goes on in Congress is nothing but theater for the brainwashed masses who have been duped into thinking that this is really a fight between the Right vs Left, when it is actually a fight between working Americans and a fascist corporate oligarchy that has taken over our govt and our financial system. So, these militias are not doing themselves or anyone else any favors because they do not recognize who the true enemy is. George Bush was just as much of a fascist as Obama and yet these same militia types and tea baggers supported him 100%.

.

[cpfc12]

Of course militia are on the rise in the US, they still have the right bear arms and their government is hell bent on taking that away. The only problem I can see with militias is the minority of hotheads and gung ho types that won't know when to pick a fight when they have to and when to keep their cool.. Too many loose cannons can capsize a ship you know. Look at the UK.. These are the guys with the guns:

http://www.idruna.com/images/PhojoCustomerPhotos/MaxNash.jpg

Kinda fucked. Nothing to fight back with if the government decides to get genocidal.

but cmon only a small percentage of the british police have firearms, and if they do, they are semi automatic, those mp5's can only fire fifteen rounds single shot, the same as a hand gun, now compare this to any other police force around the world, where arms have been routine for all police for decades.

[hertz]

but cmon only a small percentage of the british police have firearms, and if they do, they are semi automatic, those mp5's can only fire fifteen rounds single shot, the same as a hand gun, now compare this to any other police force around the world, where arms have been routine for all police for decades.


All semi automatic? who told you that, some PR department?. Did they say- "don't worry folks, all our weapons are semi automatic". The fact is the british people are totally disarmed, knives now are taboo in PC land, did all the "knife amnestys" over the last few years not ring any bells?. They are in the process of togging out the police in the UK with all sorts of deadly weapons. The vast majority have nothing. It is as simple as that really.

[d9d9d9]

When the 2nd Amendment of the USA is to bear arms and have a militia what the heck do you expect?
Hippy's singing with flowers in their hair?
.

Bear arms?

http://mysixcents.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/right_to_bear_arms1.jpg

http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/jonfoote/dali/other/Beararms.jpg

[bluefeather]

It was the following quote that disturbed me:

'Heidi Beirich, a co-author of the SPLC's militia research, said the groups were characterised by "a lot of conspiracy mongering, gun nuttery and fear of a new world order that they think is controlling the US". '

Well 2 out of the 'rule of three' they've used there would describe me. :(
Got a feeling we'll see more articles where anyone who is anti NWO will be viewed with contempt. As more folk wake up, expect more of this crap reporting to follow.:mad:

[tinyint]

If you have ever been in a proper riot situation like the ones we were in, in Northern Ireland, you learn very quickly what a determined people are capable of doing, those police pictured would run for the hills and keep on going even with their semi automatics, honesty its not a place to be when there are thousands of really pissed off people, I mean really pissed of and organised people.

Agreed. If you ever have been to a real uprise, in this case 1989 against the commies, you'll soon notice, that the military takes on that job, and all are f***ing scared, you can virtually grasp the fear.
Police is neither trained nor really willed to shoot their own people in majority, they would not stand any chance.
That is why Lisbon Treaty is in place now, to get foreign troops shoot on the 'to be helped' nation's people.

[kodiak]

Handguns licenses are still granted in Northern Ireland, the only region of the UK to allow this. Just FYI.

[kodiak]

It was the following quote that disturbed me:

'Heidi Beirich, a co-author of the SPLC's militia research, said the groups were characterised by "a lot of conspiracy mongering, gun nuttery and fear of a new world order that they think is controlling the US". '

Well 2 out of the 'rule of three' they've used there would describe me. :(
Got a feeling we'll see more articles where anyone who is anti NWO will be viewed with contempt. As more folk wake up, expect more of this crap reporting to follow.:mad:

It's like the old USSR. If you dissented you were categorised as "mentally unstable" (as per the term "gun nuttery").

[hertz]

Handguns licenses are still granted in Northern Ireland, the only region of the UK to allow this. Just FYI.

Granted for certain people. The average joe soap won't get one.

[kodiak]

Granted for certain people. The average joe soap won't get one.

That''s not right. As long as you've no criminal record, have good references and are a member of a gun club, you can get one. A mate of mine is a computer programmer in Belfast and he has a Glock. For the first year of ownership you have to keep it secure in the gun club, but after that you can bring it home.

[troubled]

These US militia groups are misguided and have no sense of perspective. They believe that because the Right claims to be for the 2nd ammendment, and claims to be for the "rural folk", and claims to be Christians, that the Right is for American freedom and Constitutional ideals. But the fact is, all of these claims are a pack of lies. The Right is just as fascist as the Left, and everything that goes on in Congress is nothing but theater for the brainwashed masses who have been duped into thinking that this is really a fight between the Right vs Left, when it is actually a fight between working Americans and a fascist corporate oligarchy that has taken over our govt and our financial system. So, these militias are not doing themselves or anyone else any favors because they do not recognize who the true enemy is. George Bush was just as much of a fascist as Obama and yet these same militia types and tea baggers supported him 100%.

.
the difference between urban and rural militias have narrowed greatly in the USA, we know the 2 parties represent the elite not us. things are changing here.

[cpfc12]

All semi automatic? who told you that, some PR department?. Did they say- "don't worry folks, all our weapons are semi automatic". The fact is the british people are totally disarmed, knives now are taboo in PC land, did all the "knife amnestys" over the last few years not ring any bells?. They are in the process of togging out the police in the UK with all sorts of deadly weapons. The vast majority have nothing. It is as simple as that really.

no but what have you been reading the newspapers reports from the guardian that states how the weapon can fire a 1000 rounds per minute blah blah, they are talking about the gun if it was on automatic fire which has been disable ever since they came into use, probably in 1991, along with ARV (armed response vehicles). Its the same with the G36 model, the powerful qualities about the guns which make them differ from having the same capabilities as glock handguns, is stronger ammo and better sights.

And to be honest i don't think the power elite really give much of a shit about the police that you think, if they did, i am sure they would have guns like everyone else in the world and this would have started way back in the 60s.

Yes knife amnestys, i am sure if they didn't have them there would be plenty of people ready to complain how its being set up so people can kill themselves off. its a lose/lose situation, espescially if you live in an area where you have kids young as 12 carrying knives.

[cpfc12]

Agreed. If you ever have been to a real uprise, in this case 1989 against the commies, you'll soon notice, that the military takes on that job, and all are f***ing scared, you can virtually grasp the fear.
Police is neither trained nor really willed to shoot their own people in majority, they would not stand any chance.
That is why Lisbon Treaty is in place now, to get foreign troops shoot on the 'to be helped' nation's people.

Pretty much

[cpfc12]

At hertz, i am sure you assume that i am for gun control, i am not personally i couldn't give a monkey's toss. But it wouldn't stop genocide, hell i am sure there where plenty of guns around in Iraq before foreign troops arrived and started culling the population, didn't stop it from happening. Also it all depends with cultures to, some cultures can get on quite well with no gun restrictions, but lets face it people in this country can't handle their drink, and kill eachother off or at least try to with glass bottles and kitchen knives, guns would just be another weapon in the arsenal.

But then again who am i to judge, if you want to defend yourself you should be able to. But when you arm the public, you will have to arm the whole police (i am talking about the other 96%) security guards, burgulars are going to be more willing to use deadly force, and its just bringing around a whole deadly cycle.

[octopusrex]

Hmm... Lemme see....

A bunch o' bushwhackers with AK's and semis vs.... The UN Armed Forces with robot-guided, seek and destroy planes, robot-soldiers, nukes...

I'd bet on the UN winning this one.:D:D:D:D

[rydeon]

but cmon only a small percentage of the british police have firearms, and if they do, they are semi automatic, those mp5's can only fire fifteen rounds single shot, the same as a hand gun, now compare this to any other police force around the world, where arms have been routine for all police for decades.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the UK police have military grade assault rifles in their police stations.
They are subject to fck all checks and balances that a UK citizen would have to be if he wanted to own a poxy .22 long-arm pistol!

[rydeon]

Hmm... Lemme see....

A bunch o' bushwhackers with AK's and semis vs.... The UN Armed Forces with robot-guided, seek and destroy planes, robot-soldiers, nukes...

I'd bet on the UN winning this one.:D:D:D:D

Not really, bushwackers know their own terrain there's too much territory to tie down a conventional army.
Also all that fancy hardware and shiny gizmos are prone to break-down in the field plus reqiure tons of logistical support reliant on supply-lines and so on.

[rydeon]

At hertz, i am sure you assume that i am for gun control, i am not personally i couldn't give a monkey's toss. But it wouldn't stop genocide, hell i am sure there where plenty of guns around in Iraq before foreign troops arrived and started culling the population, didn't stop it from happening. Also it all depends with cultures to, some cultures can get on quite well with no gun restrictions, but lets face it people in this country can't handle their drink, and kill eachother off or at least try to with glass bottles and kitchen knives, guns would just be another weapon in the arsenal.

But then again who am i to judge, if you want to defend yourself you should be able to. But when you arm the public, you will have to arm the whole police (i am talking about the other 96%) security guards, burgulars are going to be more willing to use deadly force, and its just bringing around a whole deadly cycle.

No way, criminals even armed ones are sht scared of risking entering a house where the owners can own firearms and are allowed to defend themselves without legal repercussions.
Just go to the US and ask the convicted felons in prison and they'll tell you.
With concealed carry permits the muggers and attackers would be sht scared too.

[cpfc12]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the UK police have military grade assault rifles in their police stations.
They are subject to fck all checks and balances that a UK citizen would have to be if he wanted to own a poxy .22 long-arm pistol!

I have been doing research for years, they use sub machine guns, but coverted to semi automatic not full automatic and half clip. and only a small percentage are AFO's (authorised firearms officers) before 1991 when ARV's where made routine which are the routine patrol cars that contain three armed officers. They would rely on the PT17 which became CO19, basically the english version of swat. but anyway before that they have six shot revolvers in the station safe which the duty sergeant had access to and when shit hit the fan they would give these out to the senior detectives, either that or call for the armed detectives who would have been the flying squad.
In the last years ARV patrols have trebeled, they originally had about three runnning in london in the early 90's but have gone up to 12 to 18. Most of these people go for regular training having to hit 9 out of 10 shots on target to pass, and come from military backgrounds.

[cpfc12]

No way, criminals even armed ones are sht scared of risking entering a house where the owners can own firearms and are allowed to defend themselves without legal repercussions.
Just go to the US and ask the convicted felons in prison and they'll tell you.
With concealed carry permits the muggers and attackers would be sht scared too.

well that goes back to my point, if one party is going to be completely armed then all the rest will have to be. again genocides can be set about with machetes, like in Rwanda. But cmon making guns more easily available for the joe public in my opinion will increase the chances of genocide or mass murder. If you look in the past genocides are more likely to be caused with a public support, in the end of the day its usually a class of people or minority who are killed off by the majority. I could easily imagine it, specifically granting gun permits on a widespread level to the mass public so we can kill eachother off.

[sithnemesis]

Of course militia are on the rise in the US, they still have the right bear arms and their government is hell bent on taking that away. The only problem I can see with militias is the minority of hotheads and gung ho types that won't know when to pick a fight when they have to and when to keep their cool.. Too many loose cannons can capsize a ship you know. Look at the UK.. These are the guys with the guns:

http://www.idruna.com/images/PhojoCustomerPhotos/MaxNash.jpg

Kinda fucked. Nothing to fight back with if the government decides to get genocidal.

Nice Photo from 2005 after 7/7... :)

[cpfc12]

Its really not new, there have been armed foot patrols since the 90s, mainly around the estates of notting hill and brixton