The Meaning of Christmas

[dedicate]

The long night quickens the spirit.

Dec.24th being the longest night of the year (more or less) is the holy night par excellence.

One of the major principles of Christianity is that from the worse (darkest) outer circumstance comes the true light. This is shown in the Celebration of Christmas day,, as after a long night the Christ shines, people happy, people giving, soon will be Spring and a new chance at life, a new adventure at living. The Cold Winter is waning.

Peace and Good Will to all.

[tenzingnorgay]

The long night quickens the spirit.

Dec.24th being the longest night of the year (more or less) is the holy night par excellence.

One of the major principles of Christianity is that from the worse (darkest) outer circumstance comes the true light. This is shown in the Celebration of Christmas day,, as after a long night the Christ shines, people happy, people giving, soon will be Spring and a new chance at life, a new adventure at living. The Cold Winter is waning.

Peace and Good Will to all.

Christmas day is totally about stealing pagan ceremonies to entice more people to this crap religion.

[dedicate]

Unfortunately, goodness and all that is good, is brought to the level beneith one's dignity, for the most part, today. The attitude is to regulate higher understandings and practices down to the level of dirt. This recent poster,, usually has no more to say about religion then what he posted here,, and he uses the word "pagan" like that really means anything.

Pagan has about 7 definitions that I know of,, and some of them contradict the others and some of them could be applied to just about anything. Shows the level of intelligence coming from some posters.

The way I see it, the most pagan thing about Christmas is those Football games.-- but you wont here much talk about that. No, its the "Pagan" tree and the "Pagan" santa we are always being told of.



What about other good things... progressive things? Just bring up vegitarianism in a group of people and see what happens. Yes, talk is cheap --- and people will talk all day about reform and "environment", but expect people to self-sacrifice in this consumer driven world and see the face of the future. It's ugly.






Steve Hill on Vegitarianism:

Animals don't have rights. We are animals. We're part of a food chain. So are they. That's nature. We need feel no guilt about being part of the dominant species on the planet.

The claim that we should not eat meat because of global warming (and/or agricultural efficiency) falls apart because we are - by choice - overbreeding to the point of our own species extinction. Those who would turn us all into vegetarians can first stop breeding, and secondly volunteer to pull the triggers and build the pyres to facilitate the systematic extinction of all domesticated farm animals.

I think I'll take the kids to McD's for lunch. Because I can.

---------------------------------------------


"Because I can"... that about sums up why we are heading where we are going.

[jesusistruth]

The long night quickens the spirit.

Dec.24th being the longest night of the year (more or less) is the holy night par excellence.

One of the major principles of Christianity is that from the worse (darkest) outer circumstance comes the true light. This is shown in the Celebration of Christmas day,, as after a long night the Christ shines, people happy, people giving, soon will be Spring and a new chance at life, a new adventure at living. The Cold Winter is waning.

Peace and Good Will to all.

I just learned Christmas is a way of the Catholic Church to destroy Christianity. As well as Easter and the sabbath on sunday along with the corrupted ten commandments. Link

And please don't come with this New Age crap. That may be all fine but that's not what the Bible talks about. The main point of Christianity is that anyone who doesn't get to know Christ before they die will go to Hell, which is eternal suffering where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. Yes it's fucking stupid and if you want to be a universalist/reincarnist/all-is-well-ist then derive sources from some other book.

[manxboz]

Wow, for a man who follows Christ you do like to swear. Surely swearing is not what The Lord wants us to do in order to help people understand him?

[dedicate]

[The main point of Christianity is that anyone who doesn't get to know Christ before they die will go to Hell, which is eternal suffering where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched

Really? That is the main point of Christianity? I thought it had something to do with Love. That's what I get out of it,, no need to look to some other book,.

Oh,, by the way.. lets see you wiggle out of this.... What happened to the people who lived and died before Jesus was born? .. Never mind,, I know.. they are in limbo and will rise at the end time sometime and have an opertunity to accept Christ.. Where in the Bible does it say anything like that? How is that idea Bible? Sounds like "New Age Crap" to me.

[manxboz]

The meaning of the Bible i believe is Love, Christ, Prophecy and how to live a good life so we can be happy for all eternity.

[jesusistruth]

Really? That is the main point of Christianity? I thought it had something to do with Love. That's what I get out of it,, no need to look to some other book,.

Doesn't matter how much of loving and caring person you are, if you don't know Christ you will go to Hell. Otherwise there would be no point at all for his crucifixion, would there? There is a Bosom of Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia though that's comfortable yet in the end anyone who is not written in the book of life will be thrown in the lake of fire. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20:15&version=KJV)


Oh,, by the way.. lets see you wiggle out of this.... What happened to the people who lived and died before Jesus was born? .. Never mind,, I know.. they are in limbo and will rise at the end time sometime and have an opertunity to accept Christ.. Where in the Bible does it say anything like that? How is that idea Bible? Sounds like "New Age Crap" to me.

Well in this passage Peter says Jesus went and preached to the dead when he was crucified.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%203:18-20&version=KJV

Other than that I don't know, perhaps some people gained wisdom and got to heaven but in either case only a few people get to heaven (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:13-14&version=NIV).
I think people make a mistake when they try to make the bible sound reasonable, fair or humane.

[evenus_cinatus]

Doesn't matter how much of loving and caring person you are, if you don't know Christ you will go to Hell. Otherwise there would be no point at all for his crucifixion, would there?

You are in Hell. The deadline was November 1, 2009.

Didn't you hear the half hour of Divine sorrow at 7:30pm and the
Holy chorus with God and his Angels singing about 8:00pm EST on that
day? It was awesomely Beautiful. Or-Ga-Nicity.

[jesusistruth]

You are in Hell. The deadline was November 1, 2009.

Didn't you hear the half hour of Divine sorrow at 7:30pm and the
Holy chorus with God and his Angels singing about 8:00pm EST on that
day? It was awesomely Beautiful. Or-Ga-Nicity.

Now this is interesting! What are you talking about?

[dedicate]

I'm glad you brought this Lake of Fire judgement up. Irregardless of what that is, here is what it says the judgement will be based on...

Revelation 20:12.. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books according TO THEIR WORKS.

This judgement according to Works is also mention in Rev.20;13 "Judged every man accoding TO THEIR WORKS"

Also Rev.22:12 --And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


There are also other passages where Jesus tells the man who asks, "What must I do to be saved".. and Jesus tells him to he must treat his neighbor as himself. Jesus does not add anything else for this man's salvation.

Funny this. I believe jesusistruth said, one must know Christ and it doesn't matter what you do.. In contradiction to these passages.

Jesusistruth said Doesn't matter how much of a loving and caring person ou are, if you don't know Christ you will go to Hell -- according to these passages it matters very much.. and there is no mention of believing or "knowing" Christ. aka "According to Works" period.

[coco]

Mark 5:5 - 13

5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"

6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[b] 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,'[d] and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'[e] 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

[jesusistruth]

Now let's not take things out of context. Where does it say that being judged according to your works will get you to heaven? In fact it says:

12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

It is of course said that faith without works is dead and to believe in jesus is to keep his commandments which to a great extent is to do good works etc, but the prerequisite is to have faith in Jesus because there is no other way to God (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:6&version=NIV). How else are you going to have your sins forgiven? That's the reason you're going to hell in the first place.

Now very well you may have your own understanding of what God is like the ground of being, but that is just not what the bible speaks about. God is a spirit, male and he hates sin, even to the extent that all our righteous deeds are like filthy rags to him (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2064:6&version=NIV).

[octopusrex]

For me, Christmas is all about family and togetherness.

[dedicate]

"The Books were opened and the dead were judged according to what they had DONE"..

As for who is not found in the Book of Life,, it does not say on what criteria that is. Does not say. It only reads when one is not found in the Book of Life he will go to the lake of fire. No reason for one being in the Book of Life,, or not being in the Book of Life, is given. It seems to be a secret as to what keeps one out of the Book of Life. No reference for the Book of Life is in the Bible except this one passage (same with the Lake of Fire),, so how one gets written-in or written-off is pure speculation, opinion. You say only Christians are written in.


The rest are judged according to what they had done. So then if only Christians are in the Book of Life -- and the unbelievers were sent to the Lake for not being in the Book of Life..,, why would these people be judged? I thought a Christian was forgiven the sins? It even says that some will be "outside the courtyard.. outside the Heaven..?" -- the theives, murderers, adulterers, liars, etc.. So are these Christians? They must be in the Book of life so they must be Christians right? And they are judged according to their works.. Rev.21:8 -- murderers, whoremongers, .. and liars.. have their part in the lake which burneth with brimstone".? They are judged.. and their actions are accounted for. No free ticket to heaven, it seems. Appears that a lieing Cheating Christian will not get to heaven, like when they accept Jesus at the last hours of their lives,, or backslide more often than not. They are judged according to their works.

Seems kinda convoluted when looking at it from an Evangelical perspective. Especially when one considers.. this eternal Hell some are sent to after this life is then thrown into the Lake of Fire -- destroyed. Why would one say, people go to Eternal Hell after this life and then read in the Bible which states one stands in judgement when Hell is emptied? They are in Eternal Hell.. already judged, eternally damned. No need to empty "eternal" Hell and throw it into a Lake of Fire. If they are in Hell they are not in the Book of Life, right? So, why go thru this a second time if he has already been prooved guilty and deserving of Eternal Hell? with no reprieve. etc. etc.. etc..

Then there is the statement, "Death (and Hell) is emptied and the souls in them are given up".. what's that about? Emptying death?

[lizzy]

http://cuttingthrough.jenkness.com/Blurbs/Alan_Watt__Blurb__Merry_Christmas_2009__Dec252009. mp3


The Pharisees's had murdered the Judean , Christ . We all know why.

[lightgiver]

http://cuttingthrough.jenkness.com/Blurbs/Alan_Watt__Blurb__Merry_Christmas_2009__Dec252009. mp3


The Pharisees's had murdered the Judean , Christ . We all know why.

I hear they are still trying to kill the remaining seeds off also.

and we know why.

all Christ mass means today and has done for years is the love of Mammon.

Propagated by the church of Rome,and most are to blind and ignorant to see it,apart from a few enlightened souls.

Hey good link lizzy listening to it now.

and great guitar,alan watt is :cool:

[lizzy]

^^^ Great to see you LG. ;) Yes, all for the love of money, then power, total power. It is our job to deny them this.:D
..... love , peace, health and happiness to you lightgiver.:)

[lightgiver]

^^^ Great to see you LG. ;) Yes, all for the love of money, then power, total power. It is our job to deny them this.:D
..... love , peace, health and happiness to you lightgiver.:)

and to you and everyone also;)

they will never defeat us :)

that link is just :cool: still listening to the tunes.

more people should listen to Mr watt,such a good man.

1 thing about materialism you leave it behind when you pop ya clogs and all ya take with ya is ya actions and their effects ;)

cheers once again.

[jesusistruth]

"The Books were opened and the dead were judged according to what they had DONE"..

As for who is not found in the Book of Life,, it does not say on what criteria that is. Does not say. It only reads when one is not found in the Book of Life he will go to the lake of fire. No reason for one being in the Book of Life,, or not being in the Book of Life, is given. It seems to be a secret as to what keeps one out of the Book of Life. No reference for the Book of Life is in the Bible except this one passage (same with the Lake of Fire),, so how one gets written-in or written-off is pure speculation, opinion. You say only Christians are written in.


The rest are judged according to what they had done. So then if only Christians are in the Book of Life -- and the unbelievers were sent to the Lake for not being in the Book of Life..,, why would these people be judged? I thought a Christian was forgiven the sins? It even says that some will be "outside the courtyard.. outside the Heaven..?" -- the theives, murderers, adulterers, liars, etc.. So are these Christians? They must be in the Book of life so they must be Christians right? And they are judged according to their works.. Rev.21:8 -- murderers, whoremongers, .. and liars.. have their part in the lake which burneth with brimstone".? They are judged.. and their actions are accounted for. No free ticket to heaven, it seems. Appears that a lieing Cheating Christian will not get to heaven, like when they accept Jesus at the last hours of their lives,, or backslide more often than not. They are judged according to their works.

Seems kinda convoluted when looking at it from an Evangelical perspective. Especially when one considers.. this eternal Hell some are sent to after this life is then thrown into the Lake of Fire -- destroyed. Why would one say, people go to Eternal Hell after this life and then read in the Bible which states one stands in judgement when Hell is emptied? They are in Eternal Hell.. already judged, eternally damned. No need to empty "eternal" Hell and throw it into a Lake of Fire. If they are in Hell they are not in the Book of Life, right? So, why go thru this a second time if he has already been prooved guilty and deserving of Eternal Hell? with no reprieve. etc. etc.. etc..

Then there is the statement, "Death (and Hell) is emptied and the souls in them are given up".. what's that about? Emptying death?

Oh c'mon...

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

"And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

So clearly the Lake of Fire is just a continuation of hell.

And it is Christ's book of life, indicating something on who is in it. It is also mentioned here (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+69:28&version=NIV) and here (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+4:3&version=NIV). Also, to get into the kingdom of heaven you have to be born again, and nowhere does it say it happens with good works.

And I see you are looking for reasons but you will not find them because the Bible is not reasonable. So don't ask me why the people in hell are going to get judged again.

[dedicate]

So those who are not in the book of life are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and those in the Book of Life are judged.-- according to their works. That's what it says. But if they are Christian, then why would they be judged? I thought Christians were already forgivin their sins and will not be judged?

And you can not answer as to why Hell would be emptied and tossed in the Lake of Fire and the people in Hell would have to answer again. You are saying this is the way it is and that is it.

And you don't respond as to how/why/what means.. "Death is emptied".

And you are making a lot of assumptions about who will be in the Book of Life. You point to some scripture "Jesus Own".. "Those accounted with the Rightious".. That could be anybody and more. It could include some Buddhist for all you know. Not enough information.

So clearly the Lake of Fire is just a continuation of hell. Clearly? Well it may fit your Evangelical Theology, but it does not answer the questions.

And I see you are looking for reasons but you will not find them because the Bible is not reasonable Well I find the Bible very reasonable. If you don't, then are expecting people to believe what you are speaking about,,, you may be mistaken.

. Also, to get into the kingdom of heaven you have to be born again, and nowhere does it say it happens with good works

Luke 10:25-28 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

One can love God with all one's Heart and Love thy neighbor as thyself,, outside of the Evangelical schema,, and "inherit eternal life". This is what is said. That is what one can do. Jesus did not say, "Love me with all your heart"-- just love God. Also one should love one's neighbor.. which Jesus followed with the story of the good Semaritan (unsaved person) and his works helping a poor soul. The instructions Jesus gave here could be followed by anyone anytime.. 5,000 years ago or by a Hindu even.-- anybody, not just a Christian can love God and his Neighbour. Maybe you don't see it that way, but I would say a non-Christian can love God. And Jesus does not tell the man to "Get Born Again." If the only way to Heaven was to be Born Again, then Jesus would have said so here.


I also gave this scripture: --- And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. "Every Man!".. that is all men,, each person.. "According to his Works". So apparently one will be measured according to how one measures and according to works.


So really it is the Fundamentalist teachings which focus only on Salvation thru Fundamentalist Teachings you are promoting.-- not so much what the Bible Teaches,, but how you see it.

Believe what you like, but there are other ways to see it; there are passages which state otherwise.

So really the point is this.. IF YOU CAN NOT COME UP WITH ANY REASONS FOR BELIEVING WHAT YOU BELIEVE.. OTHER THAN A FEW BIBLE PASSAGES -- then you are not going to get very far with people. Pushing your Bible passages just doesn't cut it. You have to embue people with the truth of your experience and be logical/reasonable. Intelligent people will not respond to just reapeating Bible quotes.-- which can be interpreted and sometimes seem contradictory. Get it? Get it! People need to know you have the life the truth and the way.. then they will listen.


P.S. The scripture does not directly link those abominations,, liars, unbelievers, fearful, whoremongers, etc.. with those not found in the Book of Life. You link them, not the Bible. They are "given their portion of the lake of fire".. but it does not state these people's names are not found in the Book of Life. It could very well be that murderers are in the Book of Life. Who is not in the Book of Life,, it does not say much about.

P.S.S.. you also said, "Salvation thru Jesus alone,, otherwise no reason for the Crucifixion. Right?".. No. There is other reason for the crucifixion. I don't want to get into it, but this is just your perspective, not mine.

[jesusistruth]

Luke 10:25-28 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

So to begin with, how many people do we see doing that (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%203:23-24&version=KJV)?

One can love God with all one's Heart and Love thy neighbor as thyself,, outside of the Evangelical schema,, and "inherit eternal life". This is what is said. That is all one can do. Jesus did not say, "Love me with all your heart"-- just love God. Also one should love one's neighbor.. which Jesus followed with the story of the good Semaritan (unsaved person) and his works helping a poor soul. The instructions Jesus gave here could be followed by anyone anytime.. 5,000 years ago or by a Hindu even.-- anybody, not just a Christian.

BLASPHEMY! Now it's ok to worship other gods even?

Listen to this lady. Her whole family is in hell.

Lord, my mother, she died young, she has been sick for a very long time, I don't hink she was a bad person. The Lord said, "No matter how good people they are, whoever don't know me that's the only place to go. "




I also gave this scripture: --- And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. "Every Man!".. that is all men,, each person.. "According to his Works". So apparently one will be measured according to how one measures and according to works.

Somehow it appears then that I would be better off not knowing about Christ and just spend my life being a nice person, while those who know Christ have to pray without ceasing and be persecuted for his name's sake. Perhaps the dead they are referring to are the ones who did not get to know Christ before his coming, but today when the Word is available everywhere, the Hindus, Buddhist, Jews, Islamists, Unbelievers, have rejected Christ and will see eternal damnation. (16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[b])

[dedicate]

So to begin with, how many people do we see doing that?

It doesn't matter how many people do that. The Good Semaritan did. Maybe Ghandi did. Maybe MotherTheresa the heratic Catholic did. Maybe Oscar Shindler did. And those are the well known people. What is important is that one can.. love God and serve man and find eternal life, as Jesus taught.--

BLASPHEMY! Now it's ok to worship other gods even?

I don't see it that way. The Hindues worship God. Of course there are Shivas and Brahmas but they also worship the Absolute/Transcendent/Blissfull ONE. I say, Allah is God also. You don't say this but I do. There is only one God.

I don't know about the U-Tube. Can't play it. But they are just repeating what you said. If you want to believe it, then go ahead and believe it.


Somehow it appears then that I would be better off not knowing about Christ and just spend my life being a nice person, while those who know Christ have to pray without ceasing and be persecuted for his name's sake

-- I don't know about you. Maybe you would be better off. I don't know your particular circumstance. You might benefit greatly and spiritually be being a nicer person. I'm sure, being an honest person goes a long way with God.. . And the rewards are great for being true to your wife or husband. That I'm sure of.

But faith is Ok too.-- because faith without works is dead.. show me your works and I'll show you your faith.-- Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, and Secular.

Show me your works.. and I'll show you your faith!

[jesusistruth]

It doesn't matter how many people do that. The Good Semaritan did. Maybe Ghandi did. Maybe MotherTheresa the heratic Catholic did. Maybe Oscar Shindler did. And those are the well known people. What is important is that one can.. love God and serve man and find eternal life, as Jesus taught.--


The Good Semaritan was a good example but it wasn't the way, the truth, and the life, was it? "No one comes to the Father except through Me"


I don't see it that way. The Hindues worship God. Of course there are Shivas and Brahmas but they also worship the Absolute/Transcendent/Blissfull ONE. I say, Allah is God also. You don't say this but I do. There is only one God.

Brahman, what the Buddhist are trying to get to and what you just rabbled up there is the ground of being, it is not God. God is a person, a male, the Almighty spirit. Get that.

I don't know about the U-Tube. Can't play it. But they are just repeating what you said. If you want to believe it, then go ahead and believe it.
Well DUH I'm trying to prove my point. Choo Thomas met Jesus personally several times and was shown both heaven and hell. And what you have there are the words of Christ himself.



-- I don't know about you. Maybe you would be better off. I don't know your particular circumstance. You might benefit greatly and spiritually be being a nicer person. I'm sure, being an honest person goes a long way with God.. . And the rewards are great for being true to your wife or husband. That I'm sure of.

But faith is Ok too.-- because faith without works is dead.. show me your works and I'll show you your faith.-- Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, and Secular.

Show me your works.. and I'll show you your faith!

As I've said and shown you, we have all sinned and falled short of the glory of God and all our righteus deeds are like filthy rags. You are not going to be saved by your own virtue. That's the whole point of there being a Messiah, and there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%204:12&version=NIV).

This is Christianity dude. It's not buddhism or Hinduism. If you try to compare them you are corrupting the bible, which has been done quite successfully by people like Alan Watts, Barry Long, Eckhart Tolle etc...

Here are some sources for you:

Bill Weise (http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-750107269338052182) Mary K Baxter (http://spiritlessons.com/Mary_K_Baxter_A_Divine_Revelation_of_Hell.htm) 301 Moved Permanently

17" 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.

[dedicate]

Yes. It is a wonderful thing to discuss the Bible. Especially during the Christmas season. Cant's say as I've ever heard most of these things you are talking about, jesusistruth. But we've got the entire year to have further converses about the stuff going on today and thousands of years ago, before Abraham and before the flood which destroyed all civilization, all record.

But I do see your point. I think you make interesting statements. I still have a lot of questions. In some ways I agree with you. In other ways, I'm not so sure. Friends. Keep in touch. Seems like you are doing a pretty good job at it.;)


P.s I think I'm going to take up Buddhism again.

[tannah]

The Good Semaritan was a good example but it wasn't the way, the truth, and the life, was it? "No one comes to the Father except through Me"




Brahman, what the Buddhist are trying to get to and what you just rabbled up there is the ground of being, it is not God. God is a person, a male, the Almighty spirit. Get that.


Well DUH I'm trying to prove my point. Choo Thomas met Jesus personally several times and was shown both heaven and hell. And what you have there are the words of Christ himself.




As I've said and shown you, we have all sinned and falled short of the glory of God and all our righteus deeds are like filthy rags. You are not going to be saved by your own virtue. That's the whole point of there being a Messiah, and there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%204:12&version=NIV).

This is Christianity dude. It's not buddhism or Hinduism. If you try to compare them you are corrupting the bible, which has been done quite successfully by people like Alan Watts, Barry Long, Eckhart Tolle etc...

Here are some sources for you:

Bill Weise (http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-750107269338052182) Mary K Baxter (http://spiritlessons.com/Mary_K_Baxter_A_Divine_Revelation_of_Hell.htm) Choo Thomas (http://www.break.com/usercontent/2008/7/English-Heaven-is-so-Real-by-Choo-Thomas-530729.html)

Or you could promote the concept of love to the people of the earth, rather than give the impression you should be called Jesusisanoik.

Yes, it is possible that God Is but Hell isn't, and by that I mean it isn't this image of eternal damnation some of you are hipnotized to. And while it is possible, I'm going to prefer my image of God to yours. I don't care if we're both imagining, and you got some corrupted texts to waffle on about, and I got my instincts here and now. Eternal damnation is demonic/evil desire not God Desire, and any book that tells you otherwise is in conflict with God's Spirit.

So don't be too shocked JIT, to see the Hindu family of five you never met from India share the house next door to you in heaven. Idiot.:D







.

[michael_mac]

The long night quickens the spirit.

Dec.24th being the longest night of the year (more or less) is the holy night par excellence.

One of the major principles of Christianity is that from the worse (darkest) outer circumstance comes the true light. This is shown in the Celebration of Christmas day,, as after a long night the Christ shines, people happy, people giving, soon will be Spring and a new chance at life, a new adventure at living. The Cold Winter is waning.

Peace and Good Will to all.

Christmas is basically disguised Sun Worship. Jesus is actually a personification of the Sun as it travels through the Annual sky.


The Pharmacratic Inquisition DVD Part 2 of 12 - YouTube

[dedicate]

And what might be the reason for the disguise you are wearing, michael_mac?

Anyway,, heard it. Heard it a million times. Responded to it too.

Basically, you don't like religion. Don't see anything there. Somehow you have to relate it to something you understand.. and this is about as good as you can do.


The grade for your answer is C minus. Less than average. Not much toward excellence.

[extremecheese]

The long night quickens the spirit.

Dec.24th being the longest night of the year (more or less) is the holy night par excellence.

One of the major principles of Christianity is that from the worse (darkest) outer circumstance comes the true light. This is shown in the Celebration of Christmas day,, as after a long night the Christ shines, people happy, people giving, soon will be Spring and a new chance at life, a new adventure at living. The Cold Winter is waning.

Peace and Good Will to all.

Dedicate - I don't agree with the above being the major principle. However that dosen't mean that I disagree with darkness and light playing a prominent role in the New Testament. For example in 3 of the Gospels we see that there is a period of physical darkness at the time of Jesus' crucifixion (Matt 27:45, Mark 15:33 & Luke 23:44) and of course we were told by Jesus that we are the light of the world (Matt 5:14)
However I think that the idea that there is some alternative message to Christmas other than a celebration of the birth of Christ is rather a silly point to either argue or pursue. Yes we know that it adopted the date of an existing Pagan festival, but that dosen't mean that Christianity has anything to do with Paganisim.
If anyone is struggling with the above, then a lovely example of this is what happened in Hong Kong after the handover from British to Chinese rule. Before 1997 the territories used to celebrate the Queens Birthday. This was dropped after it was given back to the Chinese and now instead HK celebrates the Buddah's birthday (See here (http://gohongkong.about.com/od/hkgovernmentandpolitics/a/hkhandover.htm))

Now, I know of no-one from Hong Kong (or anywhere else in the world for that matter) who insists that the Buddah or Buddisim is a rip-off of the British Monarcy! - it should be totaly obvious to even the most uneducated of persons that they are 2 completely different things and that one has superseeded the other. Therefore the exact same thing can be said for the Pagan festival and Christmas. The arguments and discussions surrounding all of this to me often seem ludicrus, simply the reason for the season is to cellebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.

Hope everyone had a fantastic Christmas
Cheese.

[dedicate]

Dedicate - I don't agree with the above being the major principle.

It was not stated to be the major principle.-- I was just pointing out the Solstice is an especially spiritual time on the years journey. The Birth of Christ is depected here, because it is an exceptionally holy day. Jesus Birthday could be celebrated at any day of the year just as well,, .


Or you don't agree that a major aspect of Chrsitianity is for the greatest light found in the darkest times?? That it is within the poor and lost which one finds Christianity most? Seems to me, one could support these ideas based souly on the Crucifixion. You yourself gave some nice examples.



The Solstice of course has been observed by many cultures over a very long period of time. I would suppose there are some interesting Norse mythologies associated with the Long Winter breaking into Summer. When the scientist eventually discovers the true origin and reason for the Aurora Boreialis much of this will be confirmed. There is nothing overtly "Pagan" about observing this time of year. If one wanted to bark at the moon and slit the thoats of virgins during this time, then maybe I would agree with the thought of it being "Pagan". But just by observing a Solstice doesn't make one pagan.

If you think so, then maybe your yearly birthday celebration is Pagan. Take a look at the reasons for that!

But really, Jesus's birthday could be celebrated at any time of the year, and one could find some meaning. The story is so big; I don't know why Christians don't have a "Baptism in the River Jordan" day celebration, or celebrate the day Jesus ascended into Heaven. Each at their own appropriate time of year because they are such important events. Still with all these starry similiaries,, It's a true story. The Bible could really have happened. I don't say otherwise.

But the Bible does not tell the entire story. There were a lot of things Jesus did and SAID that are not recorded in Mark, Mathew or Luke or John. But the story itself, -- like the choosing of 12 desciples -- has a bigger significance that just random acts. These acts can be seen reflected here and there in the world.