need help with teen's rebelion and peer pressure

[king]

let suppose you have a very good child that you take care of, you protect that child in any way possible, you teach the child values and you provide a loving family as a solid base.

let's suppose one day that child comes home (right after the start of school year) and begins telling you what he/she does not have and begin demanding that he/she is given that while hysterically yelling at you.

she begins to yell at you and talk back because of things he/she does not have and begins to show strange behavior,
not only disrespect but hate, absolute hate.
And he/she tells you that he/she would like to get "emancipated" from parents.
Why? because he/she is not allowed to go out every day and "hang around with her/his friends"

basically, you can feel that someone (peers most likely) have put some pressure on you child for anything from "not having a dog", "not having a cell phone", "not having a car" or not having "freedom" to go out every day for many hours at time, at child's will.

and, that same child just spent the whole summer in different country and she/he was absolutely perfect while there.

but before she/he went on that vacation he/she also got in lots of trouble because of "peer pressure" in same U.S. school
that he/she is attending.

so, any time your child is attending the school in U.S. -- something changes in his/her brain and he/she becomes rebellious and disrespectful towards parents because he/she compares others with him/herself, things that she/he does not have.

(coincidentally there are 3 GWEN/TETRA mast next to her/his school if that makes any difference)

now, you begin to know (for sure) that there is a pattern of irrational behavior and rebellion any time your child attends
the school in this U.S. town.

what is most puzzling is that this child even went that far to threaten her/his parents the "emancipation" that is -- divorcing of the parents.
and, may i say -- he/she does have loving, although traditional parents who do care about their child and who are not willing to let society "educate" their child with society's "values". They are very aware people.

now, if those same parents were abusing and controlling -- i would understand demands by this 16 year old rebellious teen, but that child is given lot more than any other of her/his peers, from a home made breakfast, he/she is well dressed and he/she is given generous time that she can spend with his/her friends almost every day of the week. that same child do not want to be told to put effort in his/her school and even though he/she is very smart kid with enormous potential -- he/she does not want to spend more than one hour studding, but he/she wants to spend all free time "just hanging around".


so, you know that something is not quite right, and you know that this rebellion of this intensity is not by a chance, you can just feel that it was artificially induced just just like feminism was induced on unsuspecting populace. You can just see it and feel it.


so, can anyone help me here, in showing this teenager and many others why children behave the way they do?
any links, any writings or audios and videos would be helpful.


TIA

[fantana]

Just smack it

[king]

Just smack it
in good old days is how it used to be

now you smack it and they take it away so that state can control it

[i am all i am]

let suppose you have a very good child that you take care of, you protect that child in any way possible, you teach the child values and you provide a loving family as a solid base.

that same child do not want to be told to put effort in his/her school and even though he/she is very smart kid with enormous potential -- he/she does not want to spend more than one hour studding, but he/she wants to spend all free time "just hanging around".

so, can anyone help me here, in showing this teenager and many others why children behave the way they do?

I LOVE YOU.

G'day King.

Actually, it isn't the teenager that requires showing why they act the way they do, it's obviously the parent that doesn't understand. Now, having said that, lets start with merely two points from what you have written.

By saying that you desire to "protect that child in any way possible" shows that you are unwilling to allow this individual to make their own choices regarding themselves. By what right do you perceive to tell another indivdual what they can or cannot do in any given situation ???

You are merely showing this child that you do not believe that they are in any way capable of making decisions for themselves and then wonder why they are apparently influenced by others, "(peers most likely)", in their decision making process.

You cannot protect this "child in any way possible", for the simple fact is that you are abviously not with them 24/7, and you cannot force your decisions upon them and remain loving towards them. Forcing your decisions upon them and loving them are opposites.

Why do you expect this child to study information supplied by a system that is set up to make it a slave in some job ???

Is this truly for the childs benefit, or is it for your benefit ???

Personally, although I did very well at high school and was in the top 5%, I did almost no study. I have also run my own business. So there is no correlation to achieving what you desire and studying like some little mental slave in an attenpt to appease others, especially the system and powers that be. Schooling is merely an indoctrination process set up by The Heirarchy Enslaving You (T-H-E-Y) for that specific purpose, enslaving you. It would be beneficial if you ask yourself what vested interest do you have in this individual studying information supplied by those attempting to enslave the said individual ???

Do you actually believe that this is going to make them a loving individual ???

Or is it for another reason, such as conforming ???

Basically, children behave the way that they do BECAUSE they have been taught to behave that way. It is a direct response learned from those around them, until and unless they are taught to make their own decisions and lovingly supported in expressing and experiencing those individual choices. Children understand adults very well, it is adults that require to understand children, as your posting of this topic clearly shows. Instead of asking others how to show "this teenager and many others why children behave the way they do?", perhaps you could sit down with this teenager and listen to what they have to say, with the goal being to understand what they are saying, and question them as to the reason why they believe what they do, and how they have come to this understanding. Maybe you will be surprised as to the level of understanding that this individual has and their reasoning for their behaviour. Then again, maybe not. But either way, you will know because they have told you in their own words.

THANK YOU.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

Personally, I think the rebel starts when the child unconscienly realizes that they have been lied to since birth by the parents.

Now, I'm not saying that the parents really do lie. but they teach the child to not hurt people, don't steal, don't lie, don't be mean, ect..

But when they get out into the "real world", they find out that everyone is doing exactly what they were taught NOT to do.

It's not your fault, the child is just no conscience to the fact that the world is flawed.

[notaslave]

I agree with most of what I am all that I am said.

It's tough being a parent but you cant protect your kids from everything. My son rode a motorbike at 16 and at first I used to make him call me upon his arrival wherever he was going. This lasted a couple of weeks and he did this without complaint (though I am sure my daughter would have told me where to go!!). I realised that he had got the bike for freedom and I was curtailing that freedom through my own fears. So I told him he didnt need to call unless there was a problem.

You have to let them take risks, make their own decisions etc You have to trust in what you have shown them and taught them. They do sometimes go off the rails but if you are confident that you have taught them well, by example, you know that even if they go off the rails they will find their way back.

[lemonique]

Both my teens were encouraged to go 'flatting', which they eventually did.
Boy!! were they more appreciative when they galloped back home eventually

:D

[limelady]

Hi King.

I've heard it said many times that being a parent is a thankless role, and there have been times when I have said this myself. It just seems like you do your best to be the best parent you can be (there are no rule books...you learn on the run as you go), you provide your kids with everything you feel they need to flourish and grown into adulthood (very often doing without yourself to achieve this), then one day despite your love, best effort and intention, it all seems to turn to custard. Actually, to be more precise, it feels like your kids are deliberately rubbing shit in your face, and it can be very daunting. In fact, I can even remember feeling quite hurt.....parents have feelings that teenage kids have no intention of acknowledging, as their own feelings and perceived 'needs' are all consuming for a few years.

There are no easy answers because at age 16, girls in particular are dumped on the cyclic/hormonal rollercoaster, and with their revved up hormones in control, for a few years its a very hairy ride indeed.... for the teen and the parents! :eek:

But the fact that your teen is asserting herself is in fact a good sign (although it won't seem like it at the moment :p) as it shows you have raised her to think for herself and with a strong sense of self-worth..... its just that for a few years the ego and the hormones seem to take the controls, and the result is your teen will display a seemingly endless need for socialising and other peer activities....some of which you will feel (as a parent) your child would be better of without!

I've been through this 3 times with my own teenage daughters and I played "mum" to a teenage boy (from age 14-17) who's parents had completely given up on him. But other than to just tell you to "hang in there" and just be there for her, I cannot give you any further advice really, as its all 'fly by the seat of your pants' stuff.....but I will say that all of my lot turned out O.K. ....they didn't all do what I would have wished for them at the time....being the free-spirits I raised them to be, they naturally all did EVERYTHING their own way, and at times this pissed me off somewhat, I have to be honest and say. But it is their life, and all we can do is guide, and I can report that the values I lived by myself during the years I was raising my kids (showing kindness and compassion for others, etc) are all values my grown kids have grown up to have in abundance themselves. So with hindsight I NOW consider I must have done a half-reasonable job as a parent.....and I think this is the only thanks (or satisfaction) a parent ever really gets for all the years dedicated to raising kids.....and being a caring/responsibile parent is the MOST difficult job on the planet IMO.

Good luck King......you're going to need it!!! :p

[king]

G'day King.
hi there and thanks for your post.


Actually, it isn't the teenager that requires showing why they act the way they do, it's obviously the parent that doesn't understand. Now, having said that, lets start with merely two points from what you have written.

By saying that you desire to "protect that child in any way possible" shows that you are unwilling to allow this individual to make their own choices regarding themselves. By what right do you perceive to tell another indivdual what they can or cannot do in any given situation ???

is it really so one sided? there is nothing wrong with the teen?

so, am I suppose to drive this "individual" every day to whatever place he/she has in mind? and, let this "individual" stay out as many hours as he/she wants even if it is a school day? and I should go in debt only to accommodate teen's desires?

am I suppose allow this "individual" to be really shitty in school and yet demand whatever he/she wants?

I can go on and on -- but just answer those questions.

You are merely showing this child that you do not believe that they are in any way capable of making decisions for themselves and then wonder why they are apparently influenced by others, "(peers most likely)", in their decision making process.

lets suppose that "individual" wants to go out and do some drugs. should i allow it?



You cannot protect this "child in any way possible", for the simple fact is that you are abviously not with them 24/7, and you cannot force your decisions upon them and remain loving towards them. Forcing your decisions upon them and loving them are opposites.

oh, but i can protect them in many ways that i can use, and that is why i said "any way possible".
I can teach children what i know, i can prod them to think.
I can teach them about danger of vaccines, about chemtrails, about aspertime amongst other things. I can show then a different culture in a different country that they can spend their vacation there. Again, i can protect them by teaching them, by being a true parent.



Why do you expect this child to study information supplied by a system that is set up to make it a slave in some job ???

so what do you propose. let them drop out of school?
short answer is -- if the child is smart enough the child will know what B.S. is what is true. and child is smart, very smart.

Is this truly for the child's benefit, or is it for your benefit ???

why would sending my child to the school benefit me?
but, why did you finish the school then?

Personally, although I did very well at high school and was in the top 5%, I did almost no study. I have also run my own business. So there is no correlation to achieving what you desire and studying like some little mental slave in an attenpt to appease others, especially the system and powers that be.

I agree here. the "individual" in question is pretty sharp.
Schooling is merely an indoctrination process set up by The Heirarchy Enslaving You (T-H-E-Y) for that specific purpose, enslaving you. It would be beneficial if you ask yourself what vested interest do you have in this individual studying information supplied by those attempting to enslave the said individual ???

good point on what schooling is, but schooling is not the main problem here. it is that those zombies in the school (teenager's own word) are pushing her emotional buttons
and that he/she is acting like a total ass and with so much hate that it is frightening.

Do you actually believe that this is going to make them a loving individual ???
no

Or is it for another reason, such as conforming ???
no, i am not a control freak, nor is my wife. but we do want to have good connection with our children.
those who never had those (lots of western people) will never know what they missed.

Basically, children behave the way that they do BECAUSE they have been taught to behave that way. It is a direct response learned from those around them,

yes, and he/she got quickly reprogrammed by his/her friends. or PTBs "curriculum"
it is lot deeper than you think. why otherwise will they teach teenagers how to make drugs? they basicaly teach then how to cook up various drugs! that is only one of the things on curriculum.

until and unless they are taught to make their own decisions and lovingly supported in expressing and experiencing those individual choices. Children understand adults very well, it is adults that require to understand children, as your posting of this topic clearly shows.

I doubt it that this is so.
let's just say that this teenager made many, many mistakes before, some of them pretty bad.
every single time teenager got full support and was helped to get back on his/her feet.
teenager in question has no reason to feel "oppressed" one day and being really fond of her parents the other way if there were no confusing signals being sent to her brain (school/peer pressure etc)



Instead of asking others how to show "this teenager and many others why children behave the way they do?",


this is a logical question.
so I can tell you this -- I can see the hidden hand of behavioral science brainwashing of western children, this is clearly obvious when you send you child to a different country.
Basically, western schools are really fucked, brainwashing children on purpose, not even Russia had such brainwashing - end of story.


perhaps you could sit down with this teenager and listen to what they have to say, with the goal being to understand what they are saying, and question them as to the reason why they believe what they do, and how they have come to this understanding.

yes, done that many times.

Maybe you will be surprised as to the level of understanding that this individual has and their reasoning for their behaviour. Then again, maybe not. But either way, you will know because they have told you in their own words.

it sure looks like that you are not a parent. Am i right?
if so, then "it's obviously you that doesn't understand"

[king]

Personally, I think the rebel starts when the child unconscienly realizes that they have been lied to since birth by the parents.

Now, I'm not saying that the parents really do lie. but they teach the child to not hurt people, don't steal, don't lie, don't be mean, ect..

But when they get out into the "real world", they find out that everyone is doing exactly what they were taught NOT to do.

It's not your fault, the child is just no conscience to the fact that the world is flawed.

well, in my case that was not the case.
I told them the ugly truth, they know, yet peep pressure and school is so great that they loose the reference point occasionally.

they never look at what they have but what they don't.


Both my teens were encouraged to go 'flatting', which they eventually did.
Boy!! were they more appreciative when they galloped back home eventually

:D

ROTFL, a friend of mine's daughter did the same and she had the same experience.

[king]

Hi King.

I've heard it said many times that being a parent is a thankless role, and there have been times when I have said this myself. It just seems like you do your best to be the best parent you can be (there are no rule books...you learn on the run as you go), you provide your kids with everything you feel they need to flourish and grown into adulthood (very often doing without yourself to achieve this), then one day despite your love, best effort and intention, it all seems to turn to custard. Actually, to be more precise, it feels like your kids are deliberately rubbing shit in your face, and it can be very daunting. In fact, I can even remember feeling quite hurt.....parents have feelings that teenage kids have no intention of acknowledging, as their own feelings and perceived 'needs' are all consuming for a few years.

There are no easy answers because at age 16, girls in particular are dumped on the cyclic/hormonal rollercoaster, and with their revved up hormones in control, for a few years its a very hairy ride indeed.... for the teen and the parents! :eek:

But the fact that your teen is asserting herself is in fact a good sign (although it won't seem like it at the moment :p) as it shows you have raised her to think for herself and with a strong sense of self-worth..... its just that for a few years the ego and the hormones seem to take the controls, and the result is your teen will display a seemingly endless need for socialising and other peer activities....some of which you will feel (as a parent) your child would be better of without!

I've been through this 3 times with my own teenage daughters and I played "mum" to a teenage boy (from age 14-17) who's parents had completely given up on him. But other than to just tell you to "hang in there" and just be there for her, I cannot give you any further advice really, as its all 'fly by the seat of your pants' stuff.....but I will say that all of my lot turned out O.K. ....they didn't all do what I would have wished for them at the time....being the free-spirits I raised them to be, they naturally all did EVERYTHING their own way, and at times this pissed me off somewhat, I have to be honest and say. But it is their life, and all we can do is guide, and I can report that the values I lived by myself during the years I was raising my kids (showing kindness and compassion for others, etc) are all values my grown kids have grown up to have in abundance themselves. So with hindsight I NOW consider I must have done a half-reasonable job as a parent.....and I think this is the only thanks (or satisfaction) a parent ever really gets for all the years dedicated to raising kids.....and being a caring/responsibile parent is the MOST difficult job on the planet IMO.

Good luck King......you're going to need it!!! :p

wow!
thanks LL for letting me know that neither our 16 year old (daughter) nor us parents are crazy!

yesterday she wanted to get "emancipated" so I called social services (you know how we love government to get involved) and I talked to a lady who said to me:

"but, she is a minor?!"

I said, I know that.
Laughingly she gave me couple of other numbers to call.
What preceded this was that my daughter said "you have no guts to call Social Services"

ROTFL.



roller coaster ride? that is for sure.

[mada88]

Good sheep follow the crowd its because they want to belong and be accepted. What shite it is, and another thing the masses will not be saved as a whole never gunna happen so stop praying for it.

[garth]

Hey King,

I believe the "system" has been purposefully designed to derail teenagers, confuse them, control them and "disconnect" them from there parents and there true selves.

The temptations are vast and the pressure exerted by peers is enormous, particularly in this day because your social status is deemed by the amount of things you have (clothes,cars with huge sound systems, ipods, t.v's blah blah). If you don't have the latest and greatest you are made to feel a reject, you don't fit in, which is directly effects a teenagers self worth. They take it on and wear it.

The corporate arseholes specifically target the teenage market and swamp it with "must have" advertising and pressure, this is then further amped up by the kids themselves, it's a huge marketing campaign. You just have to pick up one of those "teenage" glossy mags to see the shit they are pushing down these kids throats, like 10 ways to get your boyfriend off & when should I have a tit job, its sick.

The "system" then tells you the parent that if your kid gets off the rails that it's your fault, so in one hand there is a huge carrot being dangled in your kids face 24/7 and in the other hand there is a huge bat set to whack the parent if your kid gets carried away with drugs, turancy, alcohol etc etc.

Its all by design, create stress, confusion and derail both the teenager and the parent off there path's.

Soutions?? well I dunno, but one thing that might work is trying to show your teenager the other side of the coin. Like I bet that most her friends that have all this stuff & are given all this time to "hang out" at the mall have parents devoid of love and totally dysfunctional families. This was my upbringing, "things" were given in place of love - like I can't give you a hug, but have a bag of potato chips and watch the tv instead.

I'm not sure how you see "behind" the scenes but you may be able to show the your kid that all that glitters is not necessarily valuable & is mostly given as a pacifier to placate a teenager by a parent who is not coping themselves.

I believe that most teenagers who have been brought up with a set of values or morals can see through this shit, just sometimes they need a "reality" check.

Good luck mate.

[wanderer]

I'm no psychologist, but kids mostly want a reaction - I know I did when I was young, and I'm sure I was a right pain in the ass too.

Maybe the best thing to do would be to say something like- I love you - do whatever you feel you must, but understand that there are responsibilities and consequences for every action you take, and that there is only so much that you as parents can do to help them through this changing world.

We don't own our children - they don't own us. Its tough, but after 6 or 7 years of age - we have to start letting go.

There's a song out at the moment which goes something like "You came on your own...that's how your leaving" Wise words indeed.

All is lessons - especially our mistakes.

Just love them, but don't expect anything in return ;-)

BTW I have a young daughter.

Peace,

wanderer

[purple is a fruit]

Hello King

i feel for your situation. I have two children, one boy who is heading into the teenage vibe.

My take on this coming from personal experience of not that long ago being a teenager (well it was 15 odd years but feels like yesterday) is that yes being a teenager is an incredibly pressure filled time, and it has become worse in recent times with even more pressures being placed on both parents and teenagers to have, have, have and want, want, want. This Planet needs to be kept in this low resonance so that it can be controlled(obviously) The anti has been upped ridiculously as we all know.

I feel inside everyone is that knowing that something here is NOT right. I know when i was in those years i KNEW i did not fit into this place yet I had no idea why i felt that way and what was going on. This feeling which was more like a driving force caused me to make descisions and act in ways that hurt my parents and myself, and I pushed through anyway......I have no idea why I did certain things but I feel now it was a desperate attempt to just SPEAK OUT and BE HEARD to try and make some sort of sense of the deep feeling I had that this place felt WRONG in some way.A type of feeling to REBEL against everyone..... I think there is an internal battle being played out inside every person and in a teen this is amplified. maybe this is what you are all experiencing at present? I feel it will be a good thing in years to come as without these situations we can lose perspective.There is no good or bad, only how we percieve it.

If I had known at this age that going outward to be heard and scream and yell was counter effective to reaching inside and making the change internally maybe things would have been different?I dont know. It was all part of the learning process for myself and those around me I am thinking.

We are programmed to act the OPPOSITE to what would be effective in creating change. But the knowing KNOWS something here sure aint right at all and as a confused hormone filled teen with a million social pressures to BE a certain way it most certainly is a recipe for complete explosion.

As Lime pointed out, hormones get injected into this confusion (during a time when i feel many would WAKE UP if they could see through the effect that raging hormones have) THEY do NOT wish for this to happen so it is an ideal time to capatalise on the stress this brew creates, keeping stress HIGH and resonance LOW. A perfect combination to create fear, hate pain and everything else that these situations cause.

possible solution? Love. And not attempting to control anything. The urge to rebel as a teeneager is SO strong these days that any attempt to control this creates more anguish.In fact the attempt to control anything here is fruitless. The best thing we can all do is keep our resonance in a place where fear does not exist.
The sense of love and duty to protect our kiddies is part of our programming and it becomes increasingly difficult to do anythign 'right' by them as they hit these years.

I know in years to come i will be digging deep inside myself also. I dont claim to have any answers but wish to send my love to you King and to your family.

My thoughts are with you all during this time
Purple
x

[soglad]

Yes, excellent post Purps. This is just what goes on with teenagers. I was one a very short time ago and Jesus......I should get a medal for going through what I did.....really.

My sis is at her teenage stage.........my GOD..........it's like Satan himself!!

[purple is a fruit]

We all know this but I wish to post these lyrics here.

Victor Wooten
Think about that

Lyrics:
Yeah, I mean, I know. It's a scary thought though. Well not really scary but sometimes
Something that's mind opening can appear scary.
I don't know, I just think we should all just sit down and think, even if we just think just
A little bit, um, the answers will probably all show up.

(Where would u lead them? Think about that. If the whole world decided to follow U.)

Yeah, absolutely. But before we can think about leading anybody, I think we should think about where we're leading ourselves. (Think about that.)

No, I know what u mean. It's not a job I would want, trying to lead anybody. I mean, I have trouble leading myself. (Where would u lead them?)

But if I had to lead anybody anywhere I think I would, I'd probably just try to lead them back to themselves.
Yeah, because, the self is not a place that u can lead anyone. Everybody would have to find their own way, and then the leading job would be over for me. I like that.

Yeah, but when we're first born, u know, we're our own person but soon after, u know, when we start to learn and we learn from our parents and we start to go to school, we really, quickly start to get away from ourselves.

I mean, u can't really go through any structured teaching, uh, learning establishment with your own ideas. U know, u're always taught to fit in. But what are we fitting into?
U know, don't color outside the lines. Who drew the lines in the first place. I don't know
(Think about that!)

Right. That makes sense. Yeah, but I've spent my whole life trying to be in control of myself. But I dislike any one or any situation that tries to control me.
So, check this out. My trying to control myself just causes me to dislike myself. I'm finally understanding it.
I should just let me be. That's what I ask everybody else to do.

Right, yeah exactly, yeah, the act of trying to control something usually means that there's something wrong with it, and so that means we have to control it obviously.
To control something usually means taking its freedom away. So why would I spend a life fighting for freedom, just so I can take it away. Um, In the name of control.

(If the whole world decided today, to follow u. where would u lead them? Think about that)

Vibrations? Yeah, it's actually pretty simple. The thing is nothing ever stops vibrating.
Scientists know that, I mean they'll tell u that everything is a vibration. Right, yeah.
I mean, things vibrate faster they may appear as light, slower it may appear as something solid or something like that. But even thoughts are vibrations.

But the key here is that nothing ever stops vibrating, ever.
So check it out. Everything that ever vibrated is still vibrating. Everything that ever was still is. That's cool.

Yeah, me too. It's really makes me want to pay attention to the vibrations that I'm putting out there.
"Cause do they ever go away? (Think about that!)

(If the whole world decided to follow u…)

OK, Yeah, It's been fun.

(…Where would u lead them?)

I love u too, Bye Bye.

[i am all i am]

hi there and thanks for your post.

[COLOR="Magenta"]You are welcome King.

is it really so one sided? there is nothing wrong with the teen?

No, it isn't one sided. Consider this fact though, when this child was born, they had none of the conditioned responses that they now have. They learnt this from the enviroment that they have been raised in and through the people that they have interacted with.

So, there is nothing inherently wrong with the teenager, they are merely misunderstanding how to relate to their enviroment and those around them, namely yourself at the moment. They have learnt to compete for energy and are flexing their 'muscles' in this regard.

so, am I suppose to drive this "individual" every day to whatever place he/she has in mind? and, let this "individual" stay out as many hours as he/she wants even if it is a school day? and I should go in debt only to accommodate teen's desires?

No, you are not a slave to them, and this is all you would be showing by example if you did this.

Discussing with them what time they think that they should be out to and coming to a mutual understanding as to what would be beneficial for both of you is the way that I have approached ths myself.

Definitely not. If they have desires to own and possess things that you have not provided them with, then it is up to them to be responsible for aquiring the finances to fund this desire. If they unwilling to do this, then they can go without, as many of us here did, not having these things growing up, and still survived our teenage years.

am I suppose allow this "individual" to be really shitty in school and yet demand whatever he/she wants?

Yes. Let them demand whatever they want. It doesn't mean that you have to fulfill that demand though. This is something that they will be required to understand to have a balanced relationship with others throughout their lives. That is, the difference between demanding and asking. One implies an authority that another HAS TO do as they have demanded, and the other allows the person the option of making their own choice about the request. This will also be beneficial in the teenager understanding about expectations.

I can go on and on -- but just answer those questions.

Remember, unconditional love does not mean that you are a 'door mat' for another to walk all over. It merely means that you will continue to love no matter what the other has said or done.

lets suppose that "individual" wants to go out and do some drugs. should i allow it?

You cannot stop it. If they desire to do drugs, they will find a way. It would be more beneficial if they were to experiment in this manner that they did it under your supervision and guidance. It might not be what you want them to do, but at least you will be there for them and be able to provide a safe enviroment for them. It would be better that they felt comfortable enough to approach you in relationship to this than someone else that may take advantage of them in a vulnerable situation. It is also a way in which you can show them that you are being totally open and honest with them, thus reaffirming your love for them through the willingness to allow them to make their own decisions. It also gives you the opportunity to introduce knowledge in relationship to any substance that they are desiring to take.

oh, but i can protect them in many ways that i can use, and that is why i said "any way possible".
I can teach children what i know, i can prod them to think.
I can teach them about danger of vaccines, about chemtrails, about aspertime amongst other things. I can show then a different culture in a different country that they can spend their vacation there. Again, i can protect them by teaching them, by being a true parent.

OK. That is a different understanding of protection than what I was thinking. Giving them the information to make an informed choice is all that you really can do. The rest is up to them. By helping them to be informed, you are truly protecting their ability to make an informed choice based on understanding and not merely peer group pressure or other external influences.

so what do you propose. let them drop out of school?
short answer is -- if the child is smart enough the child will know what B.S. is what is true. and child is smart, very smart.

Home schooling is one option. A Steiner school is another option.

why would sending my child to the school benefit me?
but, why did you finish the school then?

I don't know, that's why I asked.

I finished school because it allowed me another two years without having to enter the work force and allowed me to continue to play sport.

good point on what schooling is, but schooling is not the main problem here. it is that those zombies in the school (teenager's own word) are pushing her emotional buttons
and that he/she is acting like a total ass and with so much hate that it is frightening.

Here's a book that I recommend that may be of assistance. There is a thread here about the authors books...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3816&highlight=happy

http://www.seashell.com.au/images/books/BeingAHappyTeen02.jpg

BEING A HAPPY TEENAGER

CONTENTS

Chapter 1
Am I normal?

Chapter 2
Why does life hurt?; Why Do I Need Problems?; Dealing With Disappointments

Chapter 3
Who am I?; How Can I Like Myself?; Feeling Good

Chapter 4
Parents; Why Do Parents Act So Crazy?

Chapter 5
Friends; What Others Think; When to Keep Your Mouth Shut; Self-Criticism; Drugs

Chapter 6
School; Bullies; Why Study?

Chapter 7
Your amazing mind; Focus on What You Want; Improve Your Memory!

Chapter 8
Happiness; If You Hate Your Parents... ; What Do You Expect?; Worry and Fear; We Choose Happiness

Chapter 9
Laws of life; The Law of the Seed; One Thing Leads to Another; Everything is Connected

Chapter 10
Your strategy; Does Positive Thinking Help?; Get Organised; Risk; Power

Chapter 11
Goals - why bother?; Mistakes; "If It Doesn't Kill You..."; Money

Chapter 12
Why not you?


no

no, i am not a control freak, nor is my wife. but we do want to have good connection with our children.
those who never had those (lots of western people) will never know what they missed.

I understand fully. I have such a connection with a 13 year old. Although he has now gone to experience living with his father, he continually brings his mates here on weekends to introduce them to me. We have a relationship where we are avble to discuss anything, and I do mean anything, between us. He is unafraid to broach any subject with me, which I truly would love to see happen between his father and himself, but that of course is out of my hands.

yes, and he/she got quickly reprogrammed by his/her friends. or PTBs "curriculum"
it is lot deeper than you think. why otherwise will they teach teenagers how to make drugs? they basicaly teach then how to cook up various drugs! that is only one of the things on curriculum.

Yes, this happens because it is the way that the system is set up. It is intended by the powers that be. I understand fully and this is why I suggested home schooling or a Steiner school. Personally I would opt for the home schooling, but it should be a mutual choice between the both of you.

I doubt it that this is so.
let's just say that this teenager made many, many mistakes before, some of them pretty bad.
every single time teenager got full support and was helped to get back on his/her feet.
teenager in question has no reason to feel "oppressed" one day and being really fond of her parents the other way if there were no confusing signals being sent to her brain (school/peer pressure etc)

Well, you posted this thread because you didn't understand. This doesn't mean that you are a bad parent or person for not understanding. It merely means that there is something that requires resolving between you and this teenager. This will give you the understanding that you seek to be of greatest benefit for them. It will also be a further example of your unconditional love expressed by you and experienced by this teenager.

this is a logical question.
so I can tell you this -- I can see the hidden hand of behavioral science brainwashing of western children, this is clearly obvious when you send you child to a different country.
Basically, western schools are really fucked, brainwashing children on purpose, not even Russia had such brainwashing - end of story.

Oh yes indeed. I attempted to tell my parents, and even other children at school, but was met only with ridicule. Of course this didn't stop me from voicing my thoughts about it, even to the teachers, and actually gained me some respect from some of the teaching staff, although it was a miniscule minority.

yes, done that many times.

Then all I can say is from a title of a book that I once read, All You Can Do Is All You Can Do, And That Is Enough.

it sure looks like that you are not a parent. Am i right?
if so, then "it's obviously you that doesn't understand"

Nope. Although I didn't father the children, I have been a parental guidance for three, a boy and two girls, for over 5 years now. The boy is now 13 and recently moved to live close by with his father, the girl living here is 17, and the other, now 21, has moved to Queensland with her boyfriend. So I do understand.

I have dealt with many scenarios with all three of them. Their father, through alcoholism and gambling, created an environment that was not healthy for them and their mother moved them away, leaving the marraige. While I did not father any of them, I have been a guide and friend to them all, loving them unconditionally no matter how they have targetted me (the oldest being the one that had issues with me after initially being friendly with me). I now have a relationship with all three of them where they are willing to openly discuss everything with me. Many of the issues that are discussed here have come up and been resolved.

I truly wish you the best in resolving this situation and enjoying the relationship that you desire to have with this teenager..

[i_am]

Hi King

I really feel for you. It is not easy being a parent is it? It is no easier, however, being a teenager.

All you can do is love them, guide them and be there to pick up the pieces when they crash and burn. Oh! And pray that the values and knowledge you have given them will stand them in good stead. I firmly believe that everyone is entitled to make his or her own mistakes in life. You don’t learn from someone else’s experience. As a parent you just pray that these mistakes are reasonably minor. It is natural, as a parent, to want to protect them but you can't be with them 24/7.

I have two children who certainly gave me lots of heartache and concern as teenagers. No matter what they did though, they were always welcomed back into the fold. The lines of communication were always open.

I remember discussing with my son what an absolute arse he had been and didn’t care how much he hurt us. I said that he probably did care but that the mates were probably more important. His reply was that no he really hadn’t cared. It did not even occur to him what he was doing was affecting us, nor did it have any consequence then. All that mattered at that time was how he felt and what he wanted.

I am happy to say that both turned out just fine and we have a wonderful relationship. They are responsible, caring human beings with children of their own, one of whom is a teenager and going through the same things :p

[king]

Hey King,

I believe the "system" has been purposefully designed to derail teenagers, confuse them, control them and "disconnect" them from there parents and there true selves.

The temptations are vast and the pressure exerted by peers is enormous, particularly in this day because your social status is deemed by the amount of things you have (clothes,cars with huge sound systems, ipods, t.v's blah blah). If you don't have the latest and greatest you are made to feel a reject, you don't fit in, which is directly effects a teenagers self worth. They take it on and wear it.

The corporate arseholes specifically target the teenage market and swamp it with "must have" advertising and pressure, this is then further amped up by the kids themselves, it's a huge marketing campaign. You just have to pick up one of those "teenage" glossy mags to see the shit they are pushing down these kids throats, like 10 ways to get your boyfriend off & when should I have a tit job, its sick.

The "system" then tells you the parent that if your kid gets off the rails that it's your fault, so in one hand there is a huge carrot being dangled in your kids face 24/7 and in the other hand there is a huge bat set to whack the parent if your kid gets carried away with drugs, turancy, alcohol etc etc.

Its all by design, create stress, confusion and derail both the teenager and the parent off there path's.

Soutions?? well I dunno, but one thing that might work is trying to show your teenager the other side of the coin. Like I bet that most her friends that have all this stuff & are given all this time to "hang out" at the mall have parents devoid of love and totally dysfunctional families. This was my upbringing, "things" were given in place of love - like I can't give you a hug, but have a bag of potato chips and watch the tv instead.

I'm not sure how you see "behind" the scenes but you may be able to show the your kid that all that glitters is not necessarily valuable & is mostly given as a pacifier to placate a teenager by a parent who is not coping themselves.

I believe that most teenagers who have been brought up with a set of values or morals can see through this shit, just sometimes they need a "reality" check.

Good luck mate.

hi garth

thank you for this great post of yours.

yes, i cannot say that i disagree with anything you said, only that i fully agree that what you said is right on the money.

i too feel that this "rebellion" is orchestrated on children and parents for purpose of destroying or making families dysfunctional.

i will read your post to my teenage girl, i am sure she would appreciate it very much as of tonight she came to her senses.

like you said -- sometimes they need "reality check"


brilliant post!

[king]

.

I thank you for bottom of my heart in conversing with me and helping me understand my child. It is nothing like an honest conversation. and you did give me so many valuable tips that i will re-read those and save them for future time.

how can i be mad on a teenager who is being hit as hard as parents are being hit, maybe even worse.

I was fortunate enough that i did not depend on my parents driving me from point A to point B, otherwise I would give them more trouble than I did (which was next to nothing)

relationship with our teen is already fixed and me and my wife will make some changes to make my teen more happy.

thanks again, and thanks to all other people (garth, purple is a fruit and others) who had contributed by voicing their own perspectives. Your experiences are very important because you went through them and now you are expressing what you went through from a different perspective.


this issue is so enormously important, yet so misunderstood.


God.. i love that teenage rebel!

:)

[i am all i am]

I thank you for bottom of my heart in conversing with me and helping me understand my child. It is nothing like an honest conversation. and you did give me so many valuable tips that i will re-read those and save them for future time.

how can i be mad on a teenager who is being hit as hard as parents are being hit, maybe even worse.

I was fortunate enough that i did not depend on my parents driving me from point A to point B, otherwise I would give them more trouble than I did (which was next to nothing)

relationship with our teen is already fixed and me and my wife will make some changes to make my teen more happy.

thanks again, and thanks to all other people (garth, purple is a fruit and others) who had contributed by voicing their own perspectives. Your experiences are very important because you went through them and now you are expressing what you went through from a different perspective.


this issue is so enormously important, yet so misunderstood.


God.. i love that teenage rebel!

:)

I LOVE YOU.

G'day King.

You are welcome brother. I am glad that we had this opportunity to be so open and honest with our discussion. This is a gift that we have been given by the rebelliousness of "that teenage rebel" that has allowed us to broach this subject with loving intent.

One thing that can help in understanding the programming of ourselves within the matrix is the use of numerology, something which has definitely helped me both personally, and understanding those around me, especially the children. There is a section that is devoted to the correlations for Arrows on the Birth Chart of children. It gives an insight into the patterns that are created and, having identified the patterns, the ability to then overcome them.

If you would like, I would be willing to do a complete reading and would only require a date of birth to do so. If you would pefer to source out the information yourself, I recommend 'Discovering The Inner Self, The Complete Book of Numerology', by Dr David A. Phillips. It can be found here at Amazon...

The Complete Book Of Numerology: Discovering Your Inner Self: Amazon.co.uk: David Phillips, Leanne S Anastasi, Rhett Nacson: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CSCGQ41KL.@@AMEPARAM@@41CSCGQ41KL

or here...

The Complete Book Of Numerology: Discovering Your Inner Self: Amazon.co.uk: David Phillips, Rhett Nacson: 9781401907273: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZXSrtzRYL.@@AMEPARAM@@51ZXSrtzRYL

From the back cover...

During his lifetime Dr David A. Phillips (1934-1993) wrote twelve books. His expertise in health and nutrition culminated in his attainment of a Doctorate in Philosophy in Natural Science from London University in 1971. He travelled regularly to every speaking country in the world to lecture and consult on numerology; incorporating his life-long study of health and personal growth into his teachings. He was regarded by many as one of the world's leading numerologists.
___________________

David A. Phillips was born in Australia and spent his life studying and practising numerology. He used the Pythagorean system that was taught to him, which Pythagoras was taught by the Egyptian priesthood for the 22 years that he spent in Egypt. It formed the basis of Pythagorean teachings, along with geometry and music.

It can be an invaluable aid, especially for children that have specific aspects upon their Birth Chart, and gives not only an understanding of the Birth Chart, but also how to overcome or deal with those aspects or tendencies that inhibit personal growth.

Anyway, I will keep an eye upon this thread to see if you would like me to do a reading. May your hearts desire be fulfilled in a loving relationship with this beautiful soul that has shared their lifes experiences with you.

THANK YOU.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[i am all i am]

I LOVE YOU.

Actually, I would love to share a poem with you that I wrote that you may be interested with sharing with this teenage soul. It is unnecessary to tell her where you got it from, merely that, if you so desire, it is something that you wish to share with her.


YOUR OWN SPECIAL PART

THE TRUTH IS HERE,
IN THE WORDS I SAY,
A LOVE THAT'S CLEAR,
TO LEAD THE WAY.

SPECIAL YOU TRULY ARE,
NOW AND ALL WAYS,
LIKE A SHINING STAR,
GIVING GOLDEN RAYS.

FOR LOVE IS YOUR SOUL,
AND IT GIVES YOU THE START,
TO MAKE YOURSELF WHOLE,
WORDS FLOW FROM YOUR HEART.

YOUR SOUL IS YOUR FEELING,
YOU FEEL IN YOUR HEART,
IT GIVES WHAT YOU'RE DREAMING,
YOUR OWN SPECIAL PART.

I BELIEVE IN YOU,
AND THE PART YOU PLAY,
IT'S IN EVERYTHING YOU DO,
AND EVERYTHING YOU SAY.

SO I SHARE THE TRUTH,
OF HOW SPECIAL YOU ARE TO ME,
AND MY WORDS ARE PROOF,
THAT MY LOVE I GIVE FOR FREE.

THANK YOU.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[lifeofbrian]

let suppose you have a very good child that you take care of, you protect that child in any way possible, you teach the child values and you provide a loving family as a solid base.

let's suppose one day that child comes home (right after the start of school year) and begins telling you what he/she does not have and begin demanding that he/she is given that while hysterically yelling at you.

she begins to yell at you and talk back because of things he/she does not have and begins to show strange behavior,
not only disrespect but hate, absolute hate.
And he/she tells you that he/she would like to get "emancipated" from parents.
Why? because he/she is not allowed to go out every day and "hang around with her/his friends"

basically, you can feel that someone (peers most likely) have put some pressure on you child for anything from "not having a dog", "not having a cell phone", "not having a car" or not having "freedom" to go out every day for many hours at time, at child's will.

and, that same child just spent the whole summer in different country and she/he was absolutely perfect while there.

but before she/he went on that vacation he/she also got in lots of trouble because of "peer pressure" in same U.S. school
that he/she is attending.

so, any time your child is attending the school in U.S. -- something changes in his/her brain and he/she becomes rebellious and disrespectful towards parents because he/she compares others with him/herself, things that she/he does not have.

(coincidentally there are 3 GWEN/TETRA mast next to her/his school if that makes any difference)

now, you begin to know (for sure) that there is a pattern of irrational behavior and rebellion any time your child attends
the school in this U.S. town.

what is most puzzling is that this child even went that far to threaten her/his parents the "emancipation" that is -- divorcing of the parents.
and, may i say -- he/she does have loving, although traditional parents who do care about their child and who are not willing to let society "educate" their child with society's "values". They are very aware people.

now, if those same parents were abusing and controlling -- i would understand demands by this 16 year old rebellious teen, but that child is given lot more than any other of her/his peers, from a home made breakfast, he/she is well dressed and he/she is given generous time that she can spend with his/her friends almost every day of the week. that same child do not want to be told to put effort in his/her school and even though he/she is very smart kid with enormous potential -- he/she does not want to spend more than one hour studding, but he/she wants to spend all free time "just hanging around".


so, you know that something is not quite right, and you know that this rebellion of this intensity is not by a chance, you can just feel that it was artificially induced just just like feminism was induced on unsuspecting populace. You can just see it and feel it.


so, can anyone help me here, in showing this teenager and many others why children behave the way they do?
any links, any writings or audios and videos would be helpful.


TIA

Hello king. I read this very early this morning and it stuck with me as something didn't seem quite 'right'. Granted, I'm not in your shoes and have some distance to issues of this kind, not being a biological parent to anyone. I used to be a teenager though. I 've also lived closely with women and have listened to their experiences and shared some of them.

Here are some thoughts based on the information you give:

It's all very well to give a child a lecture on your own set of values and beliefs, commonly known as indoctrination/conditioning, but is that really the same as preparing them for what life in this world is really like, and about? And, seeing as you come from a non-US 'world', how well do you understand the world your child lives in daily/weekly, and how do you think your attitude towards the US is seen by a child having to function in that world? Could your attitude foster a 'crisis' in her in regards of identity - felt like a choice to be an outcast living in her parents' reality, or identify with her peers/her generation/her future? Do you think your living and working in the US but really being hostile towards it could be sensed as hypocritical?

Teens do not 'rebel'. They are getting ready to leave the nest. In the phase between child and adult there can be flickering and they are neither, or both from one moment to another. Don't expect them to know that they seem to want the privileges of the child and the rights of the adult - they have no experience of adulthood yet, and so it is not fair to treat them as if they do. Maybe, to them, it seems as if adults know exactly who they are and have the freedom to be and do whatever they please. No responsibilities, just a holiday 365 days a year.

What is it like in the real world? (I mean the real world - where most teenagers live, not the wild and bizarre conspiracy world or the New Age world of '2012 will make the bad dreams go away'.)

Adults work for what they want, because it feels rewarding after the effort put into it, and they are satisfied.
They perform to earn trust and benefits, because it puts others and themselves to the test, and rest.
They cooperate in teams for the benefit of all, to learn how to be selfless.
They compete individually to better themselves, to measure their individual strength, morals, and ethics.
They guard their territory against predators on their minds and soul, because they are sovereign individuals.
If a person does not live up to an agreement, he is not trusted.
If a person says one thing and does another, he is not trusted.
If a person wants special treatment due to his 'position', he is not trusted. No team player.
A hobby is a hobby. Work is work. Not everyone can be an 'idol' - we'd run out of audiences. Believing that everyone can do 'what they love' is a trap to paralyse people to not grow into personal power and influence. Being 'real' is looking at reality as it is, not as we'd like it to be.

In the real world, people in their teens are prepared for reality like this:

If they want 'adult toys' they have to perform like an adult.
If they want 'adult benefits' they have to behave like an adult.
If they want 'adult freedom' they have to show that they know what that means.
In the 'adult world' governments take a huge chunk of your salary, due to the fact that a lot of people are not willing to work. The people not willing to support themselves are still 'children' expecting to have the privileges of the child (gimme, gimme, gimme) and the rights of the adult (I say!).

When children go on to have children of their own, we get something called social services.
When children can't control themselves, we get something called the police.
When children decide to harm other children, we get a legal system.
When children play with fire, we get stuff like religion.
When children use emotional blackmail, we get stuff like politics and wars.


Here is my point:

A lot of people scream for anarchy, and for the system to be brought down, and a lot of the time the 'system' is within people. What good does it do anyone to 'ascend' to the 'fifth' if their 'interior government' is still fully functioning? People want to go to some 'heaven' but here and now they adore being nasty and exclusive, discriminating arseholes. 'Wherever you go, there you are.'

In relation to this post of yours king, maybe the problem lies just as much within you and your understanding, as with your daughter and 'her world'.

Cooperating with teenagers can look like this:

Make agreements and see how they live up to them.
Ask them to work for two thirds of the sum of a gadget/toy and give them the last third as a bonus - the opposite of government action and a true benefit. It isn't up to you what your children use their money on - it is only up to you if they ask you to get it for them. Give them the choice: you can support their right to make individual choices, as you support them, but you don't have to go against your own conviction and actually buy it for them.

A word on feminism:

'Nothing can be more absurd than the practice ...of men and women not following the same pursuits with all their strengths and with one mind, ...the state instead of being whole is reduced to half.'
--Plato: Equality of Men and Women

Feminism was not artificially induced as you say. Women finally had enough, they united and took matters into their own hands and demanded to be treated as equals. Men can learn a lot from women.

Women who are not acknowledged as individuals capable to fend for themselves can end up looking for some 'Santa' (sugar-dad) to give them their 'toys'. Or they can end up in a relationship where they accept abuse because they think the man has to think for them and they only exist to produce and take care of his heirs. It's not on, mate.

Review your attitude re: 'feminism'.

[lifeofbrian]

Bump for 'king'.

[king]

I LOVE YOU.

G'day King.

You are welcome brother. I am glad that we had this opportunity to be so open and honest with our discussion. This is a gift that we have been given by the rebelliousness of "that teenage rebel" that has allowed us to broach this subject with loving intent.

One thing that can help in understanding the programming of ourselves within the matrix is the use of numerology, something which has definitely helped me
both personally, and understanding those around me, especially the children. There is a section that is devoted to the correlations for Arrows on the Birth Chart of children. It gives an insight into the patterns that are created and, having identified the patterns, the ability to then overcome them.

If you would like, I would be willing to do a complete reading and would only require a date of birth to do so. If you would pefer to source out the information yourself, I recommend 'Discovering The Inner Self, The Complete Book of Numerology', by Dr David A. Phillips. It can be found here at Amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Book-Numerology-David-Phillips/dp/1401910661/ref=sr_1_12/202-1305330-2307026?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189843728&sr=1-12

or here...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Book-Numerology-Discovering-Inner/dp/140190727X/ref=sr_1_18/202-1305330-2307026?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189843768&sr=1-18

From the back cover...

During his lifetime Dr David A. Phillips (1934-1993) wrote twelve books. His expertise in health and nutrition culminated in his attainment of a Doctorate in Philosophy in Natural Science from London University in 1971. He travelled regularly to every speaking country in the world to lecture and consult on numerology; incorporating his life-long study of health and personal growth into his teachings. He was regarded by many as one of the world's leading numerologists.
___________________

David A. Phillips was born in Australia and spent his life studying and practising numerology. He used the Pythagorean system that was taught to him, which Pythagoras was taught by the Egyptian priesthood for the 22 years that he spent in Egypt. It formed the basis of Pythagorean teachings, along with geometry and music.

It can be an invaluable aid, especially for children that have specific aspects upon their Birth Chart, and gives not only an understanding of the Birth Chart, but also how to overcome or deal with those aspects or tendencies that inhibit personal growth.

Anyway, I will keep an eye upon this thread to see if you would like me to do a reading. May your hearts desire be fulfilled in a loving relationship with this beautiful soul that has shared their lifes experiences with you.

THANK YOU.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

thank you again and i will PM you details in regard of your chart reading offer!
wow! what a coincidence!
I just begin reading "Sleepwalkers" by Arthur Koesler in which he talks about Pythagoras numerology!

isn't that interesting

[king]

Hello king. I read this very early this morning and it stuck with me as something didn't seem quite 'right'. Granted, I'm not in your shoes and have some distance to issues of this kind, not being a biological parent to anyone. I used to be a teenager though. I 've also lived closely with women and have listened to their experiences and shared some of them.

Here are some thoughts based on the information you give:

It's all very well to give a child a lecture on your own set of values and beliefs, commonly known as indoctrination/conditioning, but is that really the same as preparing them for what life in this world is really like, and about? And, seeing as you come from a non-US 'world', how well do you understand the world your child lives in daily/weekly, and how do you think your attitude towards the US is seen by a child having to function in that world? Could your attitude foster a 'crisis' in her in regards of identity - felt like a choice to be an outcast living in her parents' reality, or identify with her peers/her generation/her future? Do you think your living and working in the US but really being hostile towards it could be sensed as hypocritical?

hi lifeofbrain

I am not hostile towards U.S., nor are my children, but because they can compare other countries with the U.S. they know that values are slightly different, as is to be expected.
I have met a few American families who are traditional as much as it is possible not to stand out of society.

I do not expect anything from my child what someone who loves his/her family and who was born in this country is expecting.
Therefore I do not expect anything from my child that is backward or stupid,
but I do expect a certain "classy behavior", that is I do not want the street to be their teacher.


Teens do not 'rebel'. They are getting ready to leave the nest. In the phase between child and adult there can be flickering and they are neither, or both from one moment to another.


that seems right, i had the feeling that my teenager wanted to throw the idea of leaving because she was:
A: testing the waters (what we would say)
B: was confused what leaving home entails
C: wanted to piss us off because she felt oppressed, so she wanted to punish us in her own way


Don't expect them to know that they seem to want the privileges of the child and the rights of the adult - they have no experience of adulthood yet, and so it is not fair to treat them as if they do. Maybe, to them, it seems as if adults know exactly who they are and have the freedom to be and do whatever they please. No responsibilities, just a holiday 365 days a year.

yap

What is it like in the real world? (I mean the real world - where most teenagers live, not the wild and bizarre conspiracy world or the New Age world of '2012 will make the bad dreams go away'.)

Adults work for what they want, because it feels rewarding after the effort put into it, and they are satisfied.
They perform to earn trust and benefits, because it puts others and themselves to the test, and rest.
They cooperate in teams for the benefit of all, to learn how to be selfless.
They compete individually to better themselves, to measure their individual strength, morals, and ethics.
They guard their territory against predators on their minds and soul, because they are sovereign individuals.
If a person does not live up to an agreement, he is not trusted.
If a person says one thing and does another, he is not trusted.
If a person wants special treatment due to his 'position', he is not trusted. No team player.
A hobby is a hobby. Work is work. Not everyone can be an 'idol' - we'd run out of audiences. Believing that everyone can do 'what they love' is a trap to paralyse people to not grow into personal power and influence. Being 'real' is looking at reality as it is, not as we'd like it to be.


i see your point

In the real world, people in their teens are prepared for reality like this:

If they want 'adult toys' they have to perform like an adult.
If they want 'adult benefits' they have to behave like an adult.
If they want 'adult freedom' they have to show that they know what that means.
In the 'adult world' governments take a huge chunk of your salary, due to the fact that a lot of people are not willing to work. The people not willing to support themselves are still 'children' expecting to have the privileges of the child (gimme, gimme, gimme) and the rights of the adult (I say!).

I figured that teenagers will have to learn certain things on their own, including falls and successes.
trying to talk to a hormone driven head any sense is basically fruitless, esecially when hormones are at "full blast". And, i realize now that they need to go through the experiences of their own, no matter how painful they may be.

When children go on to have children of their own, we get something called social services.
When children can't control themselves, we get something called the police.
When children decide to harm other children, we get a legal system.
When children play with fire, we get stuff like religion.
When children use emotional blackmail, we get stuff like politics and wars.


yap

Here is my point:

A lot of people scream for anarchy, and for the system to be brought down, and a lot of the time the 'system' is within people. What good does it do anyone to 'ascend' to the 'fifth' if their 'interior government' is still fully functioning? People want to go to some 'heaven' but here and now they adore being nasty and exclusive, discriminating arseholes. 'Wherever you go, there you are.'


I was contemplating this issue quite extensively and I think that rebellion of the teenagers is most likely induced (or amplified) by the PTBs on purpose
as if real rebellion would be directed against a shitty, oppressive system then
System would fall.


In relation to this post of yours king, maybe the problem lies just as much within you and your understanding, as with your daughter and 'her world'.

I am not claiming that I know it all, so yes, I do not understand as well as I should, but even more difficult is arguing your point with a teenager using logic. that does not work, i learned.

Cooperating with teenagers can look like this:

Make agreements and see how they live up to them.

done that, she kept making mistakes

Ask them to work for two thirds of the sum of a gadget/toy and give them the last third as a bonus - the opposite of government action and a true benefit. It isn't up to you what your children use their money on - it is only up to you if they ask you to get it for them. Give them the choice: you can support their right to make individual choices, as you support them, but you don't have to go against your own conviction and actually buy it for them.

hmmm, sounds too Pavlovian

A word on feminism:

'Nothing can be more absurd than the practice ...of men and women not following the same pursuits with all their strengths and with one mind, ...the state instead of being whole is reduced to half.'
--Plato: Equality of Men and Women

good quote

Feminism was not artificially induced as you say.

i disagree. here is why:
Gloria Steinem: How the CIA Used Feminism to Destabilize Society
http://www.savethemales.ca/180302.html


Women finally had enough, they united and took matters into their own hands and demanded to be treated as equals. Men can learn a lot from women.

what happened is that CIA hijacked the movement, like any movement that came from the people was/still is hijacked.

Women who are not acknowledged as individuals capable to fend for themselves can end up looking for some 'Santa' (sugar-dad) to give them their 'toys'. Or they can end up in a relationship where they accept abuse because they think the man has to think for them and they only exist to produce and take care of his heirs. It's not on, mate.

Review your attitude re: 'feminism'.

No, I am not going to "Review my attitude on 'feminism' because i have done the research on causes of it.
besides, my wife agrees with me 100 % and so are many other women that i know.

that should be pretty telling.
please explain why is this turning into "feminist thread" instead of teenage/parent relationship thread?

Why do you even worry about "feminism" or "male chauvinism" or what have you when those are just tools of divide and conquer, just like political parties are?


to me gender of the person does not mean a thing (except in a relationship) and it does not define a better or a worse person due to their gender.

maybe that is why I work for a company that is owned by a female CEO, and by the way I like her very much.

should you maybe review your position on women being oppressed because majority of the women in western countries are not oppressed anymore and feminism did not help with it but people who just figured out that old ways had to go.
if you look at feminists today -- many of them do not marry and do not procreate, and by the time they figure out what they are missing they are too old to have children

now, who benefits by that? feminists do not, that is for sure.

equality between genders in which i believe 100%, is one thing but feminism and any other divide and conquer "ism" creation is totally different thing.

sorry, but any often repeated divide and conquer slogan that is created by those who drive the society in desired direction just ticks me off.

[garth]

hi garth

thank you for this great post of yours.

yes, i cannot say that i disagree with anything you said, only that i fully agree that what you said is right on the money.

i too feel that this "rebellion" is orchestrated on children and parents for purpose of destroying or making families dysfunctional.

i will read your post to my teenage girl, i am sure she would appreciate it very much as of tonight she came to her senses.

like you said -- sometimes they need "reality check"


brilliant post!

Thanks Mate, your most welcome.

I'm glad that things have worked out for the better. Another pothole avoided on the bumpy road of parenthood.:)

[lifeofbrian]

hi lifeofbrain

I am not hostile towards U.S., nor are my children, but because they can compare other countries with the U.S. they know that values are slightly different, as is to be expected.
I have met a few American families who are traditional as much as it is possible not to stand out of society.

I do not expect anything from my child what someone who loves his/her family and who was born in this country is expecting.
Therefore I do not expect anything from my child that is backward or stupid,
but I do expect a certain "classy behavior", that is I do not want the street to be their teacher.




that seems right, i had the feeling that my teenager wanted to throw the idea of leaving because she was:
A: testing the waters (what we would say)
B: was confused what leaving home entails
C: wanted to piss us off because she felt oppressed, so she wanted to punish us in her own way




yap





i see your point


I figured that teenagers will have to learn certain things on their own, including falls and successes.
trying to talk to a hormone driven head any sense is basically fruitless, esecially when hormones are at "full blast". And, i realize now that they need to go through the experiences of their own, no matter how painful they may be.



yap



I was contemplating this issue quite extensively and I think that rebellion of the teenagers is most likely induced (or amplified) by the PTBs on purpose
as if real rebellion would be directed against a shitty, oppressive system then
System would fall.




I am not claiming that I know it all, so yes, I do not understand as well as I should, but even more difficult is arguing your point with a teenager using logic. that does not work, i learned.



done that, she kept making mistakes



hmmm, sounds too Pavlovian



good quote



i disagree. here is why:
Gloria Steinem: How the CIA Used Feminism to Destabilize Society
http://www.savethemales.ca/180302.html




what happened is that CIA hijacked the movement, like any movement that came from the people was/still is hijacked.



No, I am not going to "Review my attitude on 'feminism' because i have done the research on causes of it.
besides, my wife agrees with me 100 % and so are many other women that i know.

that should be pretty telling.
please explain why is this turning into "feminist thread" instead of teenage/parent relationship thread?

Why do you even worry about "feminism" or "male chauvinism" or what have you when those are just tools of divide and conquer, just like political parties are?


to me gender of the person does not mean a thing (except in a relationship) and it does not define a better or a worse person due to their gender.

maybe that is why I work for a company that is owned by a female CEO, and by the way I like her very much.

should you maybe review your position on women being oppressed because majority of the women in western countries are not oppressed anymore and feminism did not help with it but people who just figured out that old ways had to go.
if you look at feminists today -- many of them do not marry and do not procreate, and by the time they figure out what they are missing they are too old to have children

now, who benefits by that? feminists do not, that is for sure.

equality between genders in which i believe 100%, is one thing but feminism and any other divide and conquer "ism" creation is totally different thing.

sorry, but any often repeated divide and conquer slogan that is created by those who drive the society in desired direction just ticks me off.


Cheers king, I appreciate the feedback. Maybe you are right, I could be mistaken re: feminism, as there could be an angle I haven't viewed it from. The way I look at it, women woke up to their subservient roles and have been trying to implement change on several fronts; exercising the right to decide over their own bodies, the right to decide over their own lives, the right not to be treated as second class people, the right to have a say in child rearing, the right to challenge any structure that excludes them from the world they also have to live in.

I suppose that can be seen as rebellion by male overgrown children 'in charge' who are not keen to 'share'.

The reason I brought up feminism as a point is because men and women have been living under different conditions, traditionally. Have been assigned different roles and duties. As long as a family is intact maybe it works out, but if the 'provider' disappears or fails for some reason, then what? At some point along the way men in general have proven they can't always be trusted, and that they make crazy decisions a lot of the time. Not saying women are perfect either. Just trying to keep it real here.

I'll try again re: the generation gap and being fair with teens, try to explain in broader terms:

Suppose a child growns up with parents who keep saying society is absolute shite, everything out there is dangerous and designed to kill ya, and everything is a lie, especially education.

Then the child is told to go out there and do well in school. And maybe even, 'make the parents proud', as they 'represent the family'.

That's something called a double-bind, a common technique in mind control. It's like saying 'Sit down, and run.'

Most people when sensing something is 'wrong' with the world, are often reacting to people saying one thing, and doing another. The subconscious notices every action and attitude, even if the conscious mind is sidetracked with non-stop 'talk'.

When children learn how to walk, they fall over a lot. You hardly see parents saying: oh what a failure, that's it then, that one will never learn. No, they slowly walk over, help the child back up, maybe say good try, you're doing well. The point is encouraging trying, supporting them until they get there.

With teens, they fall over a lot too. They don't 'make mistakes'. Mistakes are made by people who have the experience but still fuck up because they aren't concentrating. Knowing in theory and knowing in practise are two different things.

I'm surprised you see it as 'pavlovian' to give a teen the chance to experience step-by-step. It's not right to expect a teen to know how to function as an adult, and it's even harder if the grown-ups are not acting very adult themselves. That's like giving them the burden of having to be more mature and more in charge of themselves than the grown-ups are.

In the world today, there are hardly any adults. There are lots of eternal children, GWBush a prime example.

I'm not going to tell you how to raise your children, king. That's your responsibility. From one man to another though; actions speak louder than words, and whatever children are told they will try to find their own 'truth' and they will try to find people who believe in them and their abilities, who accept them. And, men are not women, so men can not be experts on teen girls. Mothers are.

I wish you and yours all the best of luck no matter what, king, at least you care a lot and have your heart in the right place.

In the long run, the teens of today will be the people in charge tomorrow.

Something to think about.

[king]

Thanks Mate, your most welcome.

I'm glad that things have worked out for the better. Another pothole avoided on the bumpy road of parenthood.:)

no, thank you mate!

I appreciate your experience and you willingness to share it

[king]

Cheers king, I appreciate the feedback. Maybe you are right, I could be mistaken re: feminism, as there could be an angle I haven't viewed it from. The way I look at it, women woke up to their subservient roles and have been trying to implement change on several fronts; exercising the right to decide over their own bodies, the right to decide over their own lives, the right not to be treated as second class people, the right to have a say in child rearing, the right to challenge any structure that excludes them from the world they also have to live in.


and i agree 100% with women being equal human beings.
after all -- we all had mothers, so if we think that women are lesser -- then we are lesser.


I suppose that can be seen as rebellion by male overgrown children 'in charge' who are not keen to 'share'.

ahh, that is a different class of people altogether and many of those crave power...over others... anyone that is "weaker"


The reason I brought up feminism as a point is because men and women have been living under different conditions, traditionally. Have been assigned different roles and duties.

yap

As long as a family is intact maybe it works out, but if the 'provider' disappears or fails for some reason, then what? At some point along the way men in general have proven they can't always be trusted, and that they make crazy decisions a lot of the time. Not saying women are perfect either. Just trying to keep it real here.

ok, valid points

I'll try again re: the generation gap and being fair with teens, try to explain in broader terms:

Suppose a child growns up with parents who keep saying society is absolute shite, everything out there is dangerous and designed to kill ya, and everything is a lie, especially education.

Then the child is told to go out there and do well in school. And maybe even, 'make the parents proud', as they 'represent the family'.

yes, i am aware that by asking them to be doing their best in fucked up society is hypocritical. but, i tell them that they can use this knowledge for their advantage, which they can.



Most people when sensing something is 'wrong' with the world, are often reacting to people saying one thing, and doing another. The subconscious notices every action and attitude, even if the conscious mind is sidetracked with non-stop 'talk'.

valid point again, but if i compare my children to other children -- they are definitely more modest and better mannered.
so, something good did come out of our parenting.

When children learn how to walk, they fall over a lot. You hardly see parents saying: oh what a failure, that's it then, that one will never learn. No, they slowly walk over, help the child back up, maybe say good try, you're doing well. The point is encouraging trying, supporting them until they get there.

that is what i just learned, in last few days -- i cannot run with the pillow that i i will throw under their but anytime before they fall.


With teens, they fall over a lot too. They don't 'make mistakes'. Mistakes are made by people who have the experience but still fuck up because they aren't concentrating. Knowing in theory and knowing in practise are two different things.

ha, ha .. good one

I'm surprised you see it as 'pavlovian' to give a teen the chance to experience step-by-step. It's not right to expect a teen to know how to function as an adult, and it's even harder if the grown-ups are not acting very adult themselves. That's like giving them the burden of having to be more mature and more in charge of themselves than the grown-ups are.

i meant that "punishment/reward" part was Pavlovian. it sure doesnt work with my teenage girl... because it did not work with me when i was a teen. Maybe i misunderstood your original point.



In the world today, there are hardly any adults. There are lots of eternal children, GWBush a prime example.

yap

I'm not going to tell you how to raise your children, king. That's your responsibility. From one man to another though; actions speak louder than words, and whatever children are told they will try to find their own 'truth' and they will try to find people who believe in them and their abilities, who accept them. And, men are not women, so men can not be experts on teen girls. Mothers are.

well, my wife is dumbfound on behavior of our girl too, so
i think that both parents are experiencing the same thing pretty much, until the point when daughter becomes mature, then very often she will see the best friend in her mother.

I wish you and yours all the best of luck no matter what, king, at least you care a lot and have your heart in the right place.

In the long run, the teens of today will be the people in charge tomorrow.

Something to think about.

thanks for you valuable input!

[majicdragon]

My mom wouldn't get me anything either. So I had to hang around the poor kids. This is because I had poor things and therefore I did not fit with the more well off kids. Now, my mom had money, mind you but she wasn't going to give us much. a few dollars a day as an allowence.

Now, because I hung out with poor kids, we did things that poor kids do. So in my neibourhood, this meant, instead of snowmobileing, we threw snowballs at cars and we bumperskied the bus and other vehicles. You really can get seriously injured if you were to accidentally swing into another moving vehicle, but this was our fun and it was free. We walked in a cute little pack like a litter of little puppies.

Harmless stuff right? Then we got to the age to experiment with huffing gassoline to get high, and we would huff that gassoline and see visions and wake from our stupors and go stealing stuff. I didn't need to steal anything, but when in Rome you will do as the Romans do... or you wont stay in Rome for long.

There. My childhood was set, and I was ready to develop into a young adult. Of course, I didn't need to find any more friends at that point, because I had already cultured all the friends I'd ever need. My friends and I eventually did have more money to spend because We would get a raise in our pittance from our parent. (all my friends had only one exept for the one who was adopted)

So with the friends I had I was well pleased. We crashed into adolescence.

Now, we hated the more afluent kids as they were privileged beyond our privilege. We did'nt mind the middle class kids, but we did different things than them. Their parents were always taking them to their sports events and shopping and whatever. These kids seemed to hang out at home more often than we did, so we had our same group and everyone just expected things to stay the way it was.

Grade eight and nine turned the gas into weed and acid and mushrooms, and Though we we're the poor kids, we were popular. We didn't have a porblem with drugs because we had learned to steal so well, we could afford drugs every day. Pool the allowences and find a scam, voila keep things going.

After juvinile jail and a year of work I never stole another thing... But that is just because the jail I was put into was so bad that it traumatized me for years after.

So, though I wouldn't steal anymore ever, i had not been able to change the patterns of behavior that I had picked up in my formative years. I still get high every day, but when you dont steal, you need to do something for money... I did'nt sell my ass, cause in those days people didnt sell their asses (that I Knew of) My sister, i found out later in life, knew differently. I would have to learn to network non perscription drugs with my group.

I learned as a child to live with less, so that is what I now settle for, It's great because I dont even want anything now, and apart from my laptop I couldn't give a fat flying fuck about anything at all... exept for drugs of course. I got a welding ticket now, and a sesonal job that I go to once a year, but it's ok caus eI spend the rest of my time living at home... At my moms home.

I am only a wee bit bitter toward my mother now, and since then, she also has let me know how sorry about not giving me more, both of us, my sister as well, from the time we were young.

I'm going to be ready next year to support myself fully, without the need to borrow money off my mom, as I'll be making boucoup dollars, but that stands to reason as I am now 38 years old.

Now, I can't tell you anything and you'll have to make up your own mind.



Take my story, and because it is an out of date senario and we are living in a much more dangerous world, Change gassoline to pam cooking spray, stealing to "selling ass", Weed acid mushrooms to "Coke, heroin, METH and you'll have a clearer picture.

Oh, and change my happy ending, ie: still here, productive half the time just smoking the odd blunt... Change that to institutionalize and killed somewhere between now and the time you figure out what went wrong.

It is your decision not to give to your kids. I suggest keeping her in sports and in gear to not feel like a looser enough to become one.

And I dont know you or your kid so you'll just have to work out the fine details.

[woghd]

HOMESCHOOL YOUR CHILDREN

THROW AWAY YOUR TV

If you truly love your kids (and yourself) you will do this. Public schools and television are nothing but indoctrination and mind control. Think about it, what do the words "Viewer Programming" mean?

SAVE YOUR KIDS

Archangel