I saw this and thought of you

[asky]

Here's the scenario:

1. You receive your council tax statement,
2. You demand that they present an itemized invoice of services for which you are paying.
3. Being evil persons operating under Admiralty law instead of common law, the statute-givers refuse your quite reasonable demand.
4. Because you have been given no explanation of the benefits you will receive in return for your council tax payment, you refuse to pay.
5. Being evil persons with all the force of the police and the military behind them, the statute-givers come to your house, and, despite your explanations that you are subject to common law, not statute, you are arrested, handcuffed, and taken off to jail. The statute-givers have the guns, you see.
6. After some time in jail, you are brought to trial. You refuse to answer to your name, you refuse to "stand under" Admiralty law, you take every step the Freeman philosophy prescribes for how a Freeman should behave under these circumstances.
7. However, the judge is an evil person, an occult Jesuit Mason Knight of Columbus Jew who answers only to Her Royal Majesty Elizabeth Windsor, the Queen of England, and the Pope in Rome; and the jury (if there is one) is composed of brainwashed sheep who don't understand that statute is not the same as common law. So you are found guilty of council tax evasion, even though you have spoken all the correct words, you have refused to submit to the corrupt Admiralty court, and, again, you have followed every step in the Freeman guidebook. You are sentenced to a term in prison.
8. The statute-givers and their corrupt police still have the guns, so you are taken to prison. You, again, say all the correct phrases, you announce that you are not subject to statute but only to common law, you explain that you declined to enter into a contract to pay taxes.
9. None of it works, because you are in the clutches of a corrupt system (or maybe just well-intentioned but uninformed people who haven't had the whole thing completely explained to them.)
10. So, in spite of the fact that you have done everything you believe you should have done, here you are in prison for an extended stay.


That was the scenario.

Here's the question: what do you do now? What is the next step under the Freeman plan? To whom do you appeal?

asky

[godspeed]

Who indeed

To appeal would be contracting to the court again......

Maybe you could ask a guard if your free to go........:D

[herzmeister]

The whole freeman concept rings very true to me. But first and foremost, I understand it as a spiritual principle.

It is important to internalize it, no matter what happens to us on the outside. We all must release ourselves from any fear or attachment sooner or later. We have to have faith in the higher self / nature / universe / life force / god or however we want to call it, that whatever happens will be the right thing to happen if we only stay true to ourselves.

Maybe most people in this area of the forum are not into this stuff, but I swear to you, there is some kind of "higher guidance" that is with us in critical situations, I have experienced it myself. Combining this kind of faith/spirituality with the more concrete down-to-earth freeman-law-stuff might result in quite some large impacts on our society, who knows?

I can't say what I would concretely do in such a situation, we have to learn to trust our intuition and not ponder so much about which bad things might wait for us, because that hinders us, and such kind of too much thinking is ultimately yet another fear-based behavior pattern.

I think Rob's take on this is that they would never put him in prison for long because he would then have a lot of prisoners to educate on the freeman concepts. ;)

If that doesn't work, I could imagine to retreat myself onto the prison cell pallet and thus go on silent hunger strike. I'm not afraid of anything. If they let me die, then so be it.

Maybe as really self-realized freemen we can transcend also physical laws and matter and just walk through the prison walls after all. ;) Just joking, but I'm partly serious. I see this all as one of the possible paths to enlightenment. Once we have it internalized, we are also free from suppression and deceit by any astral entities and thus we become free from any maybe prevailing soul rebirth cycles on this planet.

[cinder_darkskys]

Here's the scenario:

1. You receive your council tax statement,
2. You demand that they present an itemized invoice of services for which you are paying.
3. Being evil persons operating under Admiralty law instead of common law, the statute-givers refuse your quite reasonable demand.
4. Because you have been given no explanation of the benefits you will receive in return for your council tax payment, you refuse to pay.
5. Being evil persons with all the force of the police and the military behind them, the statute-givers come to your house, and, despite your explanations that you are subject to common law, not statute, you are arrested, handcuffed, and taken off to jail. The statute-givers have the guns, you see.
6. After some time in jail, you are brought to trial. You refuse to answer to your name, you refuse to "stand under" Admiralty law, you take every step the Freeman philosophy prescribes for how a Freeman should behave under these circumstances.
7. However, the judge is an evil person, an occult Jesuit Mason Knight of Columbus Jew who answers only to Her Royal Majesty Elizabeth Windsor, the Queen of England, and the Pope in Rome; and the jury (if there is one) is composed of brainwashed sheep who don't understand that statute is not the same as common law. So you are found guilty of council tax evasion, even though you have spoken all the correct words, you have refused to submit to the corrupt Admiralty court, and, again, you have followed every step in the Freeman guidebook. You are sentenced to a term in prison.
8. The statute-givers and their corrupt police still have the guns, so you are taken to prison. You, again, say all the correct phrases, you announce that you are not subject to statute but only to common law, you explain that you declined to enter into a contract to pay taxes.
9. None of it works, because you are in the clutches of a corrupt system (or maybe just well-intentioned but uninformed people who haven't had the whole thing completely explained to them.)
10. So, in spite of the fact that you have done everything you believe you should have done, here you are in prison for an extended stay.


That was the scenario.

Here's the question: what do you do now? What is the next step under the Freeman plan? To whom do you appeal?

asky

Here's the scenario:

1. You receive your council tax statement, < man pays tax's to the government ) to provide care to the homeless the week of your nation , an the defence of your countery or state)
2. You demand that they present an itemized invoice of services for which you are paying. < do have that right under your government to deman those idems from your government) Also do you really want to know, or are you just making waves
3. Being evil persons operating under Admiralty law instead of common law, the statute-givers refuse your quite reasonable demand. you have predeturmened there EVIL, and you put a man to your fears, < do not feel your DEMANS are reasonable ) why because if every one did that there just be no paper in the world left to wip your ass with.
4. Because you have been given no explanation of the benefits you will receive in return for your council tax payment, you refuse to pay.
Because your ego has desided, to give no explanation, that take court action vs. you, because you may have or have got money.
5. Being evil persons with all the force of the police and the military behind them, the statute-givers come to your house, and, despite your explanations that you are subject to common law, not statute, you are arrested, handcuffed, and taken off to jail. The statute-givers have the guns, you see.Being evil persons < presupossed again) And well re do arm the police very well. After all they are one who have to walk in to unknow strange home, and enforce the laws of there land, which I may add your forfathers created.
6. After some time in jail, you are brought to trial. You refuse to answer to your name, you refuse to "stand under" Admiralty law, you take every step the Freeman philosophy prescribes for how a Freeman should behave under these circumstances. Because this personage believe things that he may not understand, he < right falls back on his ego, and deside his word are useless vs, his proacutor) after all he believes them EIVL
7. However, the judge is an evil person, an occult Jesuit Mason Knight of Columbus Jew who answers only to Her Royal Majesty Elizabeth Windsor, the Queen of England, and the Pope in Rome; and the jury (if there is one) is composed of brainwashed sheep who don't understand that statute is not the same as common law. So you are found guilty of council tax evasion, even though you have spoken all the correct words, you have refused to submit to the corrupt Admiralty court, and, again, you have followed every step in the Freeman guidebook. You are sentenced to a term in prison.
LoLzLoL. No replly needed
8. The statute-givers and their corrupt police still have the guns, so you are taken to prison. You, again, say all the correct phrases, you announce that you are not subject to statute but only to common law, you explain that you declined to enter into a contract to pay taxes.
in other words you are saying the laws of man and of the countery dont matter to you, and dont apply
9. None of it works, because you are in the clutches of a corrupt system (or maybe just well-intentioned but uninformed people who haven't had the whole thing completely explained to them.) Maybe he should payed his taxs uh a is what he should be think, rather then, point the figger at his government maybe he should voted. and tryed to change things the way man dose.

10. So, in spite of the fact that you have done everything you believe you should have done, here you are in prison for an extended stay.

you there are place in this world where a man can still live almost wild. Like and Ape in a tree, but then would man landed on them, The US of A did that on behave of the whole planet, not just the US of A.

I fallowed the laws of man, I agree there are some place some laws in the world that have not got the word.

How ever I hardly think a bunch men handing Holiday pressents to needed and the poor is Evil because they view the world diffently then you. And so you know if Jesuit Mason Knight of Columbus Jew who answers only to Her Royal Majesty Elizabeth Windsor, God fucking bless them All men. because man they are on my streets working for the poor, and front line workers working for nothing, these peaple

While in this case this personage is dodging his tax's or so it seems to me. peaple have been working on government since we could write. And I have hint at, the world froming a star system government, we dont really have these types hammer down, but the mind set has been layed.

If the personage refuss's to defend him self be fore his peers, whos fault is that, The system can no longer be blamed, that person actions. How can that person Justify him and his famialy living in that state or countery. is that person a human or dose want to climb back up in to the trees. Which bring up good governments and bad, it seems to me we look at the holy land and see really bad goverments.

We live in a world which we all created, How to fix it so we all fit in is, my question. just here on Earth, not out in space where these problums will compile.

We pay tax's to have a safe world, to have a fun park, to have parks so our children have green spaces, to planet trees, to house the world, to discover new technologies. That to day the next day brings new changes, you do make a good point aside from the parnoia,

And that is dose governments have a right to TAX's, which Hammers home the point, Why should we let bad governments exstisist at all. food for thought.

an oppinion
Peace loves all

[danster82]

Well your entitiled to Habeas Corpus for unlawful detention but that again will be a trial by jury

Habeas corpus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was wondering the same thing about trials by jury combined with the fact that we live in a conditioned society, I have noticed that some people perceive what we are doing as some how criminal or jeapodizing their precious security they believe they have and so see you as a kind ofzmq enemy to their comfort zone.

[candygirl]

I thought we had lost Habeas Corpus?
Anyone able to enlighten me???
I thought with the Lisbon Treaty Habeas Corpus gone and UK almost in the Lisbon Treaty cos we lost our rights to vote....
Or have i lost the plot???

[cinder_darkskys]

Here's the scenario:

1. You receive your council tax statement, < man pays tax's to the government ) to provide care to the homeless the week of your nation , an the defence of your countery or state)
2. You demand that they present an itemized invoice of services for which you are paying. < do have that right under your government to deman those idems from your government) Also do you really want to know, or are you just making waves
3. Being evil persons operating under Admiralty law instead of common law, the statute-givers refuse your quite reasonable demand. you have predeturmened there EVIL, and you put a man to your fears, < do not feel your DEMANS are reasonable ) why because if every one did that there just be no paper in the world left to wip your ass with.
4. Because you have been given no explanation of the benefits you will receive in return for your council tax payment, you refuse to pay.
Because your ego has desided, to give no explanation, that take court action vs. you, because you may have or have got money.
5. Being evil persons with all the force of the police and the military behind them, the statute-givers come to your house, and, despite your explanations that you are subject to common law, not statute, you are arrested, handcuffed, and taken off to jail. The statute-givers have the guns, you see.Being evil persons < presupossed again) And well re do arm the police very well. After all they are one who have to walk in to unknow strange home, and enforce the laws of there land, which I may add your forfathers created.
6. After some time in jail, you are brought to trial. You refuse to answer to your name, you refuse to "stand under" Admiralty law, you take every step the Freeman philosophy prescribes for how a Freeman should behave under these circumstances. Because this personage believe things that he may not understand, he < right falls back on his ego, and deside his word are useless vs, his proacutor) after all he believes them EIVL
7. However, the judge is an evil person, an occult Jesuit Mason Knight of Columbus Jew who answers only to Her Royal Majesty Elizabeth Windsor, the Queen of England, and the Pope in Rome; and the jury (if there is one) is composed of brainwashed sheep who don't understand that statute is not the same as common law. So you are found guilty of council tax evasion, even though you have spoken all the correct words, you have refused to submit to the corrupt Admiralty court, and, again, you have followed every step in the Freeman guidebook. You are sentenced to a term in prison.
LoLzLoL. No replly needed
8. The statute-givers and their corrupt police still have the guns, so you are taken to prison. You, again, say all the correct phrases, you announce that you are not subject to statute but only to common law, you explain that you declined to enter into a contract to pay taxes.
in other words you are saying the laws of man and of the countery dont matter to you, and dont apply
9. None of it works, because you are in the clutches of a corrupt system (or maybe just well-intentioned but uninformed people who haven't had the whole thing completely explained to them.) Maybe he should payed his taxs uh a is what he should be think, rather then, point the figger at his government maybe he should voted. and tryed to change things the way man dose.

10. So, in spite of the fact that you have done everything you believe you should have done, here you are in prison for an extended stay.

you there are place in this world where a man can still live almost wild. Like and Ape in a tree, but then would man landed on them, The US of A did that on behave of the whole planet, not just the US of A.

I fallowed the laws of man, I agree there are some place some laws in the world that have not got the word.

How ever I hardly think a bunch men handing Holiday pressents to needed and the poor is Evil because they view the world diffently then you. And so you know if Jesuit Mason Knight of Columbus Jew who answers only to Her Royal Majesty Elizabeth Windsor, God fucking bless them All men. because man they are on my streets working for the poor, and front line workers working for nothing, these peaple

While in this case this personage is dodging his tax's or so it seems to me. peaple have been working on government since we could write. And I have hint at, the world froming a star system government, we dont really have these types hammer down, but the mind set has been layed.

If the personage refuss's to defend him self be fore his peers, whos fault is that, The system can no longer be blamed, that person actions. How can that person Justify him and his famialy living in that state or countery. is that person a human or dose want to climb back up in to the trees. Which bring up good governments and bad, it seems to me we look at the holy land and see really bad goverments.

We live in a world which we all created, How to fix it so we all fit in is, my question. just here on Earth, not out in space where these problums will compile.

We pay tax's to have a safe world, to have a fun park, to have parks so our children have green spaces, to planet trees, to house the world, to discover new technologies. That to day the next day brings new changes, you do make a good point aside from the parnoia,

And that is dose governments have a right to TAX's, which Hammers home the point, Why should we let bad governments exstisist at all. food for thought.

an oppinion
Peace loves all

you there are place in this world where a man can still live almost wild. Like and Ape in a tree, but then would man landed on them, The US of A did that on behave of the whole planet, not just the US of A.

you there are place in this world where a man can still live almost wild. Like and Ape in a tree, but then would man landed on MOON, The US of A did that on behave of the whole planet, not just the US of A.

[yozhik]

you there are place in this world where a man can still live almost wild. Like and Ape in a tree, but then would man landed on them, The US of A did that on behave of the whole planet, not just the US of A.

you there are place in this world where a man can still live almost wild. Like and Ape in a tree, but then would man landed on MOON, The US of A did that on behave of the whole planet, not just the US of A.

1. The moon landings were a hoax. I have, to date, seen no evidence to conclude otherwise.

2. The US of A never did anything on my behalf; they never re-presented me. I have never contracted with the US of A, nor do I have any plans to.

[yozhik]

I thought we had lost Habeas Corpus?
Anyone able to enlighten me???
I thought with the Lisbon Treaty Habeas Corpus gone and UK almost in the Lisbon Treaty cos we lost our rights to vote....
Or have i lost the plot???

Now you have me scratching my head ...


Habeus Corpus is still [I believe, but will now double check] alive and well.
This may go some way to answering your question;

The Lisbon Treaty ...

8. Would give the EU Court of Justice the power to decide our rights as EU citizens by making the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights legally binding for the first time (Art.6 TEU). This would give power to the EU judges to use their case law to lay down a uniform standard of rights for the 500 million citizens of the post-Lisbon Union in the name of a common EU citizenship in the years to come. It would open the possibility of clashes with national human rights standards in sensitive areas where Member States differ from one another at present, e.g. trial by jury, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, habeas corpus, the legalisation of hard drugs, euthanasia, abortion, labour law, succession law, marriage law, children's rights etc. Ireland's Supreme Court and the Strasbourg Court of Human Rights would no longer have the final say on what our rights are.


Regarding: 'we lost our rights to vote'
Did we ever have the vote? ;)

It doesn't remove the local vote ... but the governing body of the EU is an unelected, wholly appointed, council.

So the el supremo essentially has no mandate from the 500 million men and women in the European geographic area, over which he [allegedly] governs.

Similarly, Lady Whatever-Her-Name-Is ... Baroness Cathy Ashton - the UK woman in the No. 2 seat ... although having enjoyed a lifetime in 'high status' jobs, and now finds herself in arguably the most important seat in Europe, overseeing ALL security issues to name one of her portfolios ... has NEVER been elected. Never.

A British Labour politician, Ashton was made a life peer in 1999 by the Labour government and held junior ministerial appointments in three government departments. She was later appointed Leader of the House of Lords and, in that role, was instrumental in steering the Lisbon Treaty through Britain's Upper House.[4] In 2008, she succeeded Peter Mandelson as Commissioner for Trade in the European Commission.
Appointed, appointed, appointed ... never elected.
No mandate.

She married well to receive her peerage, had friends in all the right places including the Blairs, and was duly appointed to the European Parliament, from where she has now been appointed to the Council and is now the first High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy of the European Union. It could be argued this appointment was her pay-off for being the leading UK advocate for the Lisbon Treaty.

Here is a video clip of Nigel Farage that illustrates the point succinctly;

Nigel Farage reprimanded for criticising new EU president & foreign minister - YouTube

If the video doesn't show, click here

[chateaux]

Freedom is worth standing up to. When everyone is in prison... prison becomes the free world. :)

On council tax though... there is a conundrum that not many people realise. They assume that there are pots and pots of cash lying about... which is true. BUT... and this is from a friend of mine who worked closely with the Brum council for many years... this money is tied down... there is a lengthy bureaucracy that has to be traversed before it is released. In addition some money can only be spent on certain things so there are departments dedicated to 'working out' where what money comes from and how it may or may not be spent. A complete cock up if you ask me.

Another interesting thing in many towns... a large % of housing is council housing (in some towns this is as high as 90%). 3rd generation unemployed are being housed and looked after (i.e. no one has been employed since before the grandparents...) and someone has to feed these people and keep them alive.

So the problem is this - you have a large proportion of people being supported... and its council tax that is paying for quite a bit at this point in time.

In most cases the councils have their hands tied - they are people just like you, caught up in a system (that they do not fully comprehend) with a limited budget to pay for the things required (i.e. to look after you) and with a frustratingly large bank balance that they can not get their hands on.

Its not uncommon for a council to spend a lot of its resources on less than 120 troublesome families in the community.

----------------

I don't agree in any form of tax. When you start to understand what money/credit is - you begin to realise that YOU are the money.

So my question is this. What are YOU going to do TODAY to work TOGETHER with your community to make a DIFFERENCE?

What are YOU going to do to make YOUR communities WORK if you are not willing to support it via current systems or do you expect someone else to come up with a better solution that may or may not suit your needs while you sit on your arse doing fuck all?

What are YOU going to do to empower the councils to perhaps have easier access to the vast amount of funds that they can not get their hands on?

Time for selfishness is over... As people we need to be organised, we need to club together and start making a difference. Resisting this form of tax is perhaps a start... but don't resist it without a plan. Many of you are benefiting from the current system... If you don't like it... use your intellect to come up with a plan B.

If you pay X amount of tax each month, then put X amount of work back into your community and then invoice the council for your work done. In fact get a group of council tax fighters together and stand firm together... doing something for YOUR community.

The 'Brits conquered the world'... and now look at you lot... unable to organise a piss up in a Brewery...

[yozhik]

So the problem is this - you have a large proportion of people being supported... and its council tax that is paying for quite a bit at this point in time.

In most cases the councils have their hands tied - they are people just like you, caught up in a system (that they do not fully comprehend) with a limited budget to pay for the things required (i.e. to look after you) and with a frustratingly large bank balance that they can not get their hands on.


1. The councils are not men and women, so 'they' are 'not caught up in the system like you and me'. They ARE the system [or part of it].

2. There WOULD be cash lying around and NO NEED to increase fines and find new ones, IF they hadn't fucked up and lost a heap of money in the Iceland fiasco/crash ... which they are still trying to recover from. So maybe that swag of money that they can't get their hands on, is actually the swag of cash frozen in Iceland's bank accounts.

3. IF the councils were as poor as you make out and so benevolent; almost charitable ... how the fuck do they find HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF POUNDS [collectively] to fund Common Purpose?

4. Do Council's pay for CCTV?

5. Do Council's fine a father and his young son for feeding bread to the ducks, claiming they were littering?

[chateaux]

yozhik - The simple point I am trying to make is that there are ecosystems in place within the councils. Believe it or not, some councils desperately require the council tax to keep these systems going and not for lack of funding but due to limitations as to what $$ they can spend on what.

The above is merely an insight. Information. Knowing it will empower you and many others like you.

Knowing that for instance if a community stopped paying Council Tax meant that services: A,B,C would not be forthcoming from a given council would simply empower the community to foresee potential pitfalls and have a solution in place before forging ahead with for instance a mass campaign to get everyone to stop paying council tax.

In my world money means nothing since it is quite easy to devalue that money in a few short months making it worthless. What do you think is currently going on?

Forget about 'money'... all we need are people who are willing to do things for the community and not for greed.

[cinder_darkskys]

1. The moon landings were a hoax. I have, to date, seen no evidence to conclude otherwise.

2. The US of A never did anything on my behalf; they never re-presented me. I have never contracted with the US of A, nor do I have any plans to.

as easy as I pull out Angels I can show you what they did, and explain out why you missguildly believe what you do.

Its the same for the Jews and beening burnt or gased.

Peaple who believe the moon mission was fake have not studdied. and they are uninformed. mostly I find they something against the US of A. this why they try disinfrom peaple. its like a guy who hurts ladies, marking them selfs with a
pentagram, they are control to mark them selfs with inveted stars.

I have notic many of the peaple that have hurt women rape have that mark, in other words they are going, to where women have full control. complete over them. a part of hell if you like

The moon is the same way now you can go over this site till you blue in the face, but there NOTHING, here, that show they fake anything Zero, but what is dose show up, is peaple willingness to change thing to there own point of view.

But your oppinion is so noted.

[jakemaverick]

i have tried explaining the blatantly obvious to these yobs without names several billion times, in evry media format known to man, it never stops though....they will have to torture me to make even try to speak to those yobs again, chances are i might kill one or two in self defence next time....

....what you think will happen to me then?

[cinder_darkskys]

Here's the scenario:

1. You receive your council tax statement,
2. You demand that they present an itemized invoice of services for which you are paying.
3. Being evil persons operating under Admiralty law instead of common law, the statute-givers refuse your quite reasonable demand.
4. Because you have been given no explanation of the benefits you will receive in return for your council tax payment, you refuse to pay.
5. Being evil persons with all the force of the police and the military behind them, the statute-givers come to your house, and, despite your explanations that you are subject to common law, not statute, you are arrested, handcuffed, and taken off to jail. The statute-givers have the guns, you see.
6. After some time in jail, you are brought to trial. You refuse to answer to your name, you refuse to "stand under" Admiralty law, you take every step the Freeman philosophy prescribes for how a Freeman should behave under these circumstances.
7. However, the judge is an evil person, an occult Jesuit Mason Knight of Columbus Jew who answers only to Her Royal Majesty Elizabeth Windsor, the Queen of England, and the Pope in Rome; and the jury (if there is one) is composed of brainwashed sheep who don't understand that statute is not the same as common law. So you are found guilty of council tax evasion, even though you have spoken all the correct words, you have refused to submit to the corrupt Admiralty court, and, again, you have followed every step in the Freeman guidebook. You are sentenced to a term in prison.
8. The statute-givers and their corrupt police still have the guns, so you are taken to prison. You, again, say all the correct phrases, you announce that you are not subject to statute but only to common law, you explain that you declined to enter into a contract to pay taxes.
9. None of it works, because you are in the clutches of a corrupt system (or maybe just well-intentioned but uninformed people who haven't had the whole thing completely explained to them.)
10. So, in spite of the fact that you have done everything you believe you should have done, here you are in prison for an extended stay.


That was the scenario.

Here's the question: what do you do now? What is the next step under the Freeman plan? To whom do you appeal?

asky

I was just showing something, I was not trying to be meen, hurtfull.

That was the scenario.

Taxs are laws of man, if can't unitify our laws, say in the smimplest ways, how can we expected other peaple from lower tech clutters to, then you add, other speices. like what im showing in other topic post, this why I say things like Porn should be for human, I never said wipe it out I suggested self control from the ones who produce its. Human sexialy for humans

Take a Great countery like China, the technogy may span from things they used for 1,000s of years ago, right up to the ICBM. How would China view the whole world Porn, it should also be noted, it hard to get XXX from out of China.
But in other asian culture out side of China, you can get anything you want. Why would I use, China It has huge population, many wont understand things like the full on NET. Even in India 10 or 15 years ago, just out side of main cities, there were place there 200 years in the passed.

dose governments have a right to TAX's, note in the scenario, adds Enforcement of those tax laws, how ever the way its display, no matter what they < government )did, he would not agree. and well the scenario say that he's now a crimial as he spent time in jail for his believe, as a tax dodger to his peers. Who are paying for things like drug rehab clines, resocialing peaple, social systems Education systems and armment of there police an militairy defence forces, it effects alot,

which Hammers home the point, Why should we let bad governments exstisist at all. food for thought.

[cinder_darkskys]

NASA an the Moon

Image 1 basic the 1st satilite image of the moon, use in many of the US of A education books pre 70s and 80's is a image from the 40s or 50s realy, but used over an over, tell much about the US of A.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=649&pictureid=6189
Image 2 1 fram of Orbit there maps lay out ever crack every line
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=649&pictureid=6188
Image 3 Image of a foot print on the moon. for any print to change shape in that enviorment it would take a long time
look closely at that image, Im sure there a hunter or a tracker on this site. do you see it. This might be the 1st step man made on the moon I dont know.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=649&pictureid=6187
Image 4
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=649&pictureid=6186
After the 13 mission, then things changed
sorry for the off topic post

PeaceLovesALl

[yozhik]

Unless the Councils are now moon based; this thread has been well and truly hijacked.

[yozhik]

as easy as I pull out Angels I can show you what they did, and explain out why you missguildly believe what you do.

Its the same for the Jews and beening burnt or gased.


I'd be happy if I could just comprehend this.

[asky]

YOZHICK wrote
Unless the Councils are now moon based; this thread has been well and truly hijacked.

You know why that is dont you?
Its too much of a reality check.

asky

[yozhik]

You know why that is dont you?
Its too much of a reality check.

asky

translation? ... someone ... anyone ... please?

The moon is a reality check?
The councils ARE based on the moon; thats the reality?
This thread, in reality, was intended to be about the moon, but was cryptically disguised as being about the council?
The council owns the moon?

Which reality check are you referring to asky?
The ambiguity and non-sensical nature of your reply?
Is that the reality we are asked to check?

[asky]

The OP is the reality check
Thats why people want to derail the thread with nonsense rather than see the point of the OP.

asky

[john white]

1. You receive your council tax statement,
2. You demand that they present an itemized invoice of services for which you are paying.
3. Being evil persons operating under Admiralty law instead of common law, the statute-givers refuse your quite reasonable demand.
4. Because you have been given no explanation of the benefits you will receive in return for your council tax payment, you refuse to pay.
5. Being evil persons with all the force of the police and the military behind them, the statute-givers come to your house, and, despite your explanations that you are subject to common law, not statute, you are arrested, handcuffed, and taken off to jail. The statute-givers have the guns, you see.

The reality check, dear asky, is that we dont get to stage 5. You cocked up stage 4, that's the "conditional acceptance" stage

It is clear that you are terrified of authority though. Guns dont make anyone right, unless pointed at cowards

That seems to explain your entire attitude with FOTL

[yozhik]

It is clear that you are terrified of authority though. Guns dont make anyone right, unless pointed at cowards


I respectfully suggest it is;
'Guns don't make anyone right, and are more often than not, pointed by cowards.'

[john white]

I'll put that as "also true" Yozhik :P

[asky]

Thanks for correcting Johns quotation yozhik

Unfortunatly he does it too often for it to be mere carelessness.

So whats your answer at stage 4 John?

asky

[john white]

Thanks for correcting Johns quotation yozhik

Unfortunatly he does it too often for it to be mere carelessness.

So whats your answer at stage 4 John?

asky

Oh sorry I thought you knew it all already

Are you saying you don't?

Are you saying you have read all around the freeman material but don't know what conditional acceptance is?

Or did you just decide to ignore it because you just want to get to the stage where you can say "Your in jail now you losers LOL should have played the game like me"?

The things you are frightened of!

If the state wants to lock me up with several hundred of the most disenfranchised men in society good luck to them, it would be an opportunity to me and a mistake for the state

[asky]

The sceanario doesnt recognise "conditional acceptance" and neither do the courts in this instance.
Dont you get it yet john?

asky

[john white]

So tell me, with evidence please, when did you try to use conditional acceptance and why do you believe your attempt failed....

Oh hang on, your not talking about stuff you only have a contemptuous understanding of the theory of, are you? Hence your flawed scenario, presented as if you know it is absolute truth when it is only your scenario based on imperfect understanding and a pre-conceived aim of claiming it isn't possible so don't even try...

Meanwhile, conditional acceptance works just fine and NO-ONE is invited to court when the state isn't sure it can win

[asky]

I think everyone uses conditional acceptance dont they john?
I used it when I got offered my current job.
They made me an offer I attached my conditions and then we agreed.
Conditional acceptance is not some magical term used in courtrooms john its something we all do every day.

By the way its not my scenario hence the title of the thread.
I just though it might be of interest to people

asky

[dharmic one]

" Man being born, as has been proved, with a title to perfect freedom and an uncontrolled enjoyment of all the rights and privileges of the law of Nature, equally with any other man, or number of men in the world, hath by nature a power not only to preserve his property - that is his life, liberty and estate, but to judge of and punish the breaches of that law in others.......

.........Because no political society can be, nor subsist, without having in itself the power to preserve the property, and in order thereunto punish the offenses of all those of that society, there, and there only, is political society where every one of the members hath quitted this natural power, resigned it up into the hands of the community in all cases that exclude him not from appealing for protection from the law established by it.....whereby it is easy to discern who are, and are not in political society together......

Those who are united into one body, and have a common established law and judicature to appeal to...are in civil society with one another; but those who have no such common appeal. I mean on earth, are still in the state of Nature, each being where there is no other, judge for himself and executioner; which is, as I have before showed it, the perfect state of Nature"


TRUE END OF GOVERNMENT
Of Civil Government etc - John Locke

[john white]

Spread Locke with Blake and we find the true spirit of an Englishman

Lovely quote dharmic one

I've been thinking about this thread for a few hours and I have some things to say

Firstly, people might think I'm being tough on asky. He can be nice. He can be agreeable. "So why are you stern with him John"

Understand its not about personality whether ones principles are sound or not

Blair had a charming personality and the principles of a psychopath: not an overstatement, a man who will go on the sunday morning christianity programme and say he would kill thousands of civilians at least, regardless of evidence, is a twisted man indeed

I make a tough comparison to make a tough comparison. Sometimes one must stand the line to keep a clear picture of what is

Beneath Asky's personality is the very serious consequences of his point of view if allowed to dominate society. We both live in the Uk. We don't have armed police: yet. But in this thread asky has tried to frighten us with: "stories of police and guns and the state as force and comply or be crushed: your mad if you think any different!"

Seeing what is, I'm having no truck with that, and yes, I could call the implications: "keep your head down and obey, just try to stay on top of others so you can still have some privilege" not only contemptuous: but the very message of the enemy of free humanity, as if spoken from darknesses own lips

^ I wanted to take the opportunity to make that clear

[chateaux]

What makes this life so interesting is that we each have to make our own decisions as to who we are, what we are and how we move forward.

Asky has his point of view, I have friends who may have similar points of view and cynicism of the "Freeman way of thinking". They are defenders of the 'faith' and good sheep to boot. They pay their taxes without a bleet, they trust their government bodies without a peep, and every four years they do their duty by putting a big X on some puppet party ballet sheet. They truly believe their elected representatives are capable of making the 'right' decisions for them. They are happy with their comfortable lives and aspire to be successful within the systems framework. They believe that if they have nothing to hide, nothing baaad will happen to them. They do not question authority and are model citizens obeying everything and questioning nothing.

The idea behind conditional acceptance is to maintain honour. Up until recently no one understood this idea... well not until people like Rob came around and showed us how to turn the system upside down. The idea with conditional acceptance is to use the simple truth in a manner that allows the author to create a circumstance where the questions asked expose the fraud that is being offered by those sheep in government who should know better. It's a technology, its not a 'fix all'. Before you had your fists to fight with... now many people are waking up to learning how to fight with the might of truth. This does not mean it will 'work' asky... it does not mean you will not go to 'jail' asky... it simply means that from a moral stand point you have not prostituted yourself in order to 'be free'. You simply are free - regardless of whether you are located in a 5ft by 5ft jail cell or in a manor house overlooking the Thames.

If enough people start to ask the right questions, these questions will slowly filter into the general consciousness and change through these actions will be forthcoming.

[dharmic one]

Beneath Asky's personality is the very serious consequences of his point of view if allowed to dominate society. We both live in the Uk. We don't have armed police: yet. But in this thread asky has tried to frighten us with: "stories of police and guns and the state as force and comply or be crushed: your mad if you think any different!"


I am glad you liked the Locke quote John, My girlfriend spotted it in a charity shop ( for which I might end up being eternally grateful to her!) and I can't put it down!!! I think I recall you speaking at a birmingham meeting this summer. I liked your piece at the beginning it seemed to set the whole, very positive tone for the meeting.

This, I think, is the state of society that every enlightened thinker of all the ages has sought to prevent from coming into being by engaging with the humanity of his fellow man.

I feel that this state is already here. We only need to see the expressions and reactions of those in positions of so called authority on these videos and their predecessors to see the porkies they tell themselves and others to maintain the, quite obvious to me, illusion of power that the few seem to have over the many.

I think the guys that make these videos are the essence of what a freeman is trying to achieve. There are many who would, even if only through ambiguous language and obfuscation, oppose the idea that every man is born free and equal and has the unlimited, Natural Right to maintain this freedom and defend it against all who would seek to take a part thereof by force and subdue him into unlawful obedience.

To me, the essence of all of these arguments for and against the ideas and concepts put forward by all sides rest on the very relative meaning and interpretation of the word freedom.

It is, to me the most important word in my vocabulary - that all things from it come, good or bad, into my experience through my free will. The source of this free will is the same as the source that says "I am".

The OP for me relies entirely on the premise that

"statute-givers and their corrupt police still have the guns, so you are taken to prison."

This is the essence of many an argument put forth to oppose the ideas espoused here. That resistance in whatever form other than what the system allows us will inevitably be overcome by force and the will of the executive will have to be obeyed at some point. Buried in these arguments is the simple one of futility. Because the proposed futiliy of this sort of resistance an anxiety arises and the urge to warn, save, and protect those who may suffer that take heed of ideas proposed by them that want to be free and others to be also.

I believe I have a responsibility also to help protect anyone who may suffer anywhere - but I do not extend that responsibility to a belief that I have the authority to tell others what to believe. Many authors post such words emboldened by what I believe to be itself a misguided and futile principle - that other people, of sound mind and capable of taking responsibility of their own affairs need our protection, advice or guidance. This is not so. I believe it to be every man's duty to do all he can to protect himself and his interests from that of others in a mutually beneficial society.

Essentially I believe the OP poses a simple warning, all else being theater;

Listen to these idiots and you'll end up in jail and your life will be over.

I believe that to ridicule others in their pursuit of remedy in a perversely corrupt society to the point that one would champion it by illustrating the futility of opposing it, there being no real redress available to the slaves, is an indication of a mindset that in essence aspires to be what the powers that be desire the most, subordinate. In subordination we find the existence by necessity of superiority. This is what many men desire, not equality but power over others.

One has no problem accepting the authority of others who would offer him any form of position in their hierarchical system of control, once he had earned it by being subordinate. This I feel is what the OP is proposing - subordination.....