Five open questions to Icke believers- help wanted [Archive]

View Full Version : Five open questions to Icke believers- help wanted

adimon

14-09-2007, 04:39 PM

shodan

14-09-2007, 04:49 PM

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

This is what they call themselves. Start with the Pyramid/Eye on the Dollar Bill if your going to look into it further.

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

In a myriad of ways. They print the money for starters. One of the major tools is total control of mainstream media, all forms.

3. What is their agenda?

To microchip the human race, total domination and slavery for the whole of mankind.

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

Bilderberg and Bohemian Grove are the two places that have been unconvered where they meet, every year. Been going on for ages.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

The evidence is everwhere. from all kinds of sources, including the guilty parties. Checkout ZEITGEIST, sure some parts are Debateable, but tons of eye-opening facts. Checkout interviews with Nicholas Rockerfella and others.

I'm 50 50 on the reptiles, there's a ton of references from orthodox history, but I havn't seen a shapeshift...yet.

shodan

14-09-2007, 04:58 PM

forgot to add welcome to the forum :D

greenleaf

14-09-2007, 05:01 PM

phoebe

14-09-2007, 05:08 PM

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

The illuminati are an extension of our own sickness
And inability to face the fact that WE are individually responsibile
For our own actions and our own lives.
They take the responsibility that we shirk.

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

Because we allow it.
Until we are ready to accept responsibility it will be the same.

3. What is their agenda?

To do what they think is right.
Ultimately, although they may not know it
To assist humans to consciously evolve.

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

Think of it as less of a group of people
And more of a mindset shared by various people.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

Intuition, self-knowledge.

I'm open-minded and can see a lot of evidence, for example, that the story of a plane hitting the pentagon is suspect. Reptilian shapeshifters is a little beyond me, tbh. I'm willing to listen to any reasoned argument, however.

I just don't feel swayed by Icke, having read all his books. He seems to just say stuff without any corroboration -.e.g. Ted Bundy was a member of a shapeshifting reptilian bloodline that has economic clout etc. If so, why was Bundy fried in an electric chair?

I guess what I'm saying is when I read, for example, John Pilger, I might find myself puzzling over his interpretation or opinion, but with Icke all that comes into my head are more unanswerable questions.

Thank you for your time. :)

Don't believe the hype.

:)

shodan

14-09-2007, 05:29 PM

if you don't mind my saying so..i think you have a very enlightened eye..

Why thankyou :o

adimon

14-09-2007, 05:35 PM

1. This is what they call themselves. Start with the Pyramid/Eye on the Dollar Bill if your going to look into it further.

2. In a myriad of ways. They print the money for starters. One of the major tools is total control of mainstream media, all forms.

3. To microchip the human race, total domination and slavery for the whole of mankind.

4. Bilderberg and Bohemian Grove are the two places that have been unconvered where they meet, every year. Been going on for ages.

5. The evidence is everwhere. from all kinds of sources, including the guilty parties. Checkout ZEITGEIST, sure some parts are Debateable, but tons of eye-opening facts. Checkout interviews with Nicholas Rockerfella and others.

I'm 50 50 on the reptiles, there's a ton of references from orthodox history, but I havn't seen a shapeshift...yet.

1. Yes there is a pyramid on the bill. But where did you learn about the Illuminati? What are your sources? The reason I posted the questions here is because I've probably read, spoken to, and attended 90% of what you have, but remain unconvinced because it isn't convincing. I've met high-ranking UK politicians, academics and businessmen, and none of them gave me any cause for suspicion. Even when I was concentrating so hard on every word, every facial expression millimetric change and the intonation of their voice. I can tell when people lie, conceal, paraphrase etc.. So what have you seen that I haven't that makes you believe in what you do?

2. So how does printing money relate to you believing (even 50/50) in shapeshifting reptiles, Atlantis, or any of that Anton Wilson stuff? How does Icke know what he claims about the Bloodlines?

3. Please expand on what you mean by microchipping.

4. What goes on at Bilderberg and Bohemian Grove? How do you know anything about it? If this is annual, is there something more regular. Plans of the order of complexity which Icke believes the NWO are trying to impose would surely require more regular discussion/tweaking, no?

5. What evidence? What sources? What is Zeitgeist? Yes, I've seen the interviews, but what 'others' do you refer to? What is the single most convincing piece of evidence you've experienced?

Thank you again.

celtic isis

14-09-2007, 05:51 PM

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

3. What is their agenda?

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

I'm open-minded and can see a lot of evidence, for example, that the story of a plane hitting the pentagon is suspect. Reptilian shapeshifters is a little beyond me, tbh. I'm willing to listen to any reasoned argument, however.

I just don't feel swayed by Icke, having read all his books. He seems to just say stuff without any corroboration -.e.g. Ted Bundy was a member of a shapeshifting reptilian bloodline that has economic clout etc. If so, why was Bundy fried in an electric chair?

I guess what I'm saying is when I read, for example, John Pilger, I might find myself puzzling over his interpretation or opinion, but with Icke all that comes into my head are more unanswerable questions.

Thank you for your time. :)

omg i can't even get into this now lol

maybe you should read cooper instead :rolleyes:

of course politicians etc aren't going to give you any cause for concern - this is a hidden hand in events after all.

haha thye've no probs meeting up for bilderberg every year without a mention of it in the media!

look it's just the way it is!

forget about reptilians, it doesn't matter if they are or not, it is highly possible, anything is pssible inthis world and if you get into the esoteric knowledge widely available to us in society you'd see that with no problem...but wait, it's not widely and openly available in society and that's the wohle point!

ah jeez i've posted about this before, i can't type it all again i'l be back!

also icke has been researching this for about 20 years lol that's where he get's his info. but don't take his word for it, you're in denial.

celtic isis

14-09-2007, 05:56 PM

ICKE IS NOT ALL ABOUT REPTILIANS!!!!

It's only about 5 percent what he talks about and he has every right to.

look i question icke myself a lot, but the man is damn right on i would say 90 percent or more that i know to be true, being around freemasons etc...i've been looking into this for almost 2 years now...

:confused:

look i will give you a link where you can read the 1st chapter of cooper's book Behold a pale horse or go to
www.scribd.com

and get it yourself, you'll have most of your answers there as to their agenda, and the means to the end that they want.

celtic isis

14-09-2007, 06:00 PM

1. Yes there is a pyramid on the bill. But where did you learn about the Illuminati? What are your sources? The reason I posted the questions here is because I've probably read, spoken to, and attended 90% of what you have, but remain unconvinced because it isn't convincing. I've met high-ranking UK politicians, academics and businessmen, and none of them gave me any cause for suspicion. Even when I was concentrating so hard on every word, every facial expression millimetric change and the intonation of their voice. I can tell when people lie, conceal, paraphrase etc.. So what have you seen that I haven't that makes you believe in what you do?

2. So how does printing money relate to you believing (even 50/50) in shapeshifting reptiles, Atlantis, or any of that Anton Wilson stuff? How does Icke know what he claims about the Bloodlines?

3. Please expand on what you mean by microchipping.

4. What goes on at Bilderberg and Bohemian Grove? How do you know anything about it? If this is annual, is there something more regular. Plans of the order of complexity which Icke believes the NWO are trying to impose would surely require more regular discussion/tweaking, no?

5. What evidence? What sources? What is Zeitgeist? Yes, I've seen the interviews, but what 'others' do you refer to? What is the single most convincing piece of evidence you've experienced?

Thank you again.

watch this film:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

FOR THE ANSWERS - micrchipping the lot.

adimon

14-09-2007, 06:07 PM

omg i can't even get into this now lol

maybe you should read cooper instead :rolleyes:

of course politicians etc aren't going to give you any cause for concern - this is a hidden hand in events after all.

haha thye've no probs meeting up for bilderberg every year without a mention of it in the media!

look it's just the way it is!

forget about reptilians, it doesn't matter if they are or not, it is highly possible, anything is pssible inthis world and if you get into the esoteric knowledge widely available to us in society you'd see that with no problem...but wait, it's not widely and openly available in society and that's the wohle point!

ah jeez i've posted about this before, i can't type it all again i'l be back!

also icke has been researching this for about 20 years lol that's where he get's his info. but don't take his word for it, you're in denial.

I'm sorry if the way in which I'm asking my questions offends you. I am very interested in these issues. I am not an outright 'all conspiracies are bullcrap' type of non-believer, I'm just interested in why people believe what Icke writes because from what I've read (and I think I've read all he has so far publised) he doesn't back stuff up with footnotes, or references at all.

Why don't we focus on one issue at a time? It might help resolve our differences... :)

1. Who do you think goes to Bilderberg, and what happens there? How do the British delegates implement power over Parliament and the UK free market? Maybe you could cite an example of how a member of the Illuminati has been to Bilderberg, been briefed or taken part in discussions as to what the overall grand plan is, and returned to the UK, and changed law or policy over here?

2. "look it's just the way it is! "

I'm not trying to be more inflammatory, but this is obviously not a reasoned argument, and I would really like to hear about sources of evidence from someone who is SO sure, that they are willing to dedicate some time to trying to convince me. I'm not saying it isn't true, I just want convincing if it is.

"forget about reptilians, it doesn't matter if they are or not, it is highly possible"

Yes it does matter if they are or not. That's the point. I believe in economic forces, backed by military, headed by conservative politicians, but not that they are related via bloodlines, or that those bloodlines are inhuman. That's what I want to know why people believe it.

" anything is pssible inthis world and if you get into the esoteric knowledge widely available to us in society you'd see that with no problem...but wait, it's not widely and openly available in society and that's the wohle point! "

I've read very widely, talked to a lot of people, seen a lot of video footage, and been to over 20 countries, but I'm afraid I don't see what you see 'with no problem.' If you really believe it, and can back it up, I'd sincerely like to hear it.

Lastly, from the same paragraph, why do you say its not openly available in society?

seanx

14-09-2007, 06:32 PM

adimon asked:

1. Who do you think goes to Bilderberg, and what happens there? How do the British delegates implement power over Parliament and the UK free market? Maybe you could cite an example of how a member of the Illuminati has been to Bilderberg, been briefed or taken part in discussions as to what the overall grand plan is, and returned to the UK, and changed law or policy over here?

Answer: Ask Peter Mandelson.

You're asking Questions as if you want us to convince
you of these things.

This is not a religion, with fixed, absolute answers.

You're Questions are great- but all a forum like this can do is point
you in certain directions where you can complete your own reseach.

The other important thing you must take into account is icke
puts a lot of store in a human faculty that has been denied,
ridiucled and repressed in most humans.

It's the faculty that all the great businessmen use, call it instinct -
gut feeling - Intuition.

If you're a product of our universites, you will laugh this
straight away - as nonsense - such a faculty is surely 'a figmant
of imagination.'

The Question you must ask yourself now; Is that true or is the
other alternative true: That our educational system have done a
fantastic job in destroying this faculty in me?

Without this faculty, you'll be limited in your research to the
3-D sense world.

Can you take a leap of courage to consider other possibilites?

celtic isis

14-09-2007, 06:44 PM

I'm sorry if the way in which I'm asking my questions offends you. I am very interested in these issues. I am not an outright 'all conspiracies are bullcrap' type of non-believer, I'm just interested in why people believe what Icke writes because from what I've read (and I think I've read all he has so far publised) he doesn't back stuff up with footnotes, or references at all.

Why don't we focus on one issue at a time? It might help resolve our differences... :)

1. Who do you think goes to Bilderberg, and what happens there? How do the British delegates implement power over Parliament and the UK free market? Maybe you could cite an example of how a member of the Illuminati has been to Bilderberg, been briefed or taken part in discussions as to what the overall grand plan is, and returned to the UK, and changed law or policy over here?

2. "look it's just the way it is! "

I'm not trying to be more inflammatory, but this is obviously not a reasoned argument, and I would really like to hear about sources of evidence from someone who is SO sure, that they are willing to dedicate some time to trying to convince me. I'm not saying it isn't true, I just want convincing if it is.

"forget about reptilians, it doesn't matter if they are or not, it is highly possible"

Yes it does matter if they are or not. That's the point. I believe in economic forces, backed by military, headed by conservative politicians, but not that they are related via bloodlines, or that those bloodlines are inhuman. That's what I want to know why people believe it.

" anything is pssible inthis world and if you get into the esoteric knowledge widely available to us in society you'd see that with no problem...but wait, it's not widely and openly available in society and that's the wohle point! "

I've read very widely, talked to a lot of people, seen a lot of video footage, and been to over 20 countries, but I'm afraid I don't see what you see 'with no problem.' If you really believe it, and can back it up, I'd sincerely like to hear it.

Lastly, from the same paragraph, why do you say its not openly available in society?

Fact: Esoteric knowledge does exist. It is the basic fundamental truths of who we are, where we came from, why we are here, of life, of nature and the universe as a whole structure/system. And we are all part of a system. This ancient knowledge is the tool that can set us free, and indeed it does set you free when you discover it. It sets you free in your life, in your understanding of things and it doesn’t stop there. It is outstanding knowledge, the secrets of the ages originating from ancient civilizations Ancient Egypt, Sumer (now Iraq), Babylon etc.

Yet…Fact: This knowledge is kept from us! Hidden. It should form the very basis of our learning from childhood, be included in our education from the start. We should grow and evolve alongside this knowledge and be guided by it but the fact remains that a very large number of the population are not even aware that this knowledge exists! A whole other world of knowledge that very few know about. There’s your conspiracy right there.

Yet…Who knows very well about this knowledge and uses or abuses it to their full advantage? Do I really have to spell it out…our very own world leaders and government. Secret societies, of which all people with prime positions in government, banking, nobility etc are all members and are all linked together (which even just a little bit of research on your part will show is true) you will see that a very definite pattern or network emerges, all leading ultimately to the same goal. They are all based on (or variations of) the same core esoteric knowledge, which can either be used to set free or to control. Of course they use it for the latter.

Fact: People seriously underestimate the power of members of secret societies and they are so widespread and infiltrate every government, every nation. Basically you get the prime positions more easily if you are a member, one of the brotherhood than if you are not, they make sure of it as a clause. Of course you have always been told that Freemasons are just a simple fraternity organisation and you accept that, without every wanting to know what they do in those lodges of theirs. I’ve gone to one of their meetings, public information meeting where they tell you nothing lol, just fob you off with politics etc. Nothing about the actual brotherhood. Anyone who is or was anyone is history eg Issac Newton, Benjamin Franklin George Washington etc etc were all either Freemasons or members of another secret society of which there are many, all under different names. As indeed, are Bush (both daddy and son and grandfather, if I recall well), Clinton, John Kerry etc (Skull and Bones). They’re the ones who make the rules we live by. Please research this yourself, it’s too much to go into detail about it here. I’ve been reading about this subject for a year from so many different sources and it is all so obvious a conclusion in the end.

So there is this “network” of top people who all have the advantage of this esoteric knowledge (which they are using for bad purposes- to gain more and more power, control, wealth and to harness the negative energy to further their goal hence the horned hand symbols, they’re involved in rituals and black magic etc), all the blatant use of occult symbolism in the media and corporations run and owned by these same people, and we’re all running around trying to figure out why the world has ended up like this and why nothing makes any sense and we have to live our lives without being given these basic tools and truths, that would set us free cause they don’t want us to have this power, they want us all confused and in a mess cause then they can have a monopoly over everything.

The only way out is to discover symbolism etc for yourself. It takes you on an incredible journey (seriously) like rediscovering the world and your way of thinking all over again. We are conditioned to believe that the physical world we can see and touch in front of us is “all there is”. You will discover it’s not all there is. Everything about nature is magical in itself nevermind the potential we have locked away within all of us which is dummed down at every opportunity to make us believe that we are “ordinary” and “small” and that we have no power and that anything or anyone deemed “extraordinary” is crazy or are crackpots or illusionists.

I see the pattern now cause of the research I’ve done and no, it’s not cause I’m looking for patterns that aren’t there, the patterns happen before your eyes completely by accident for the most part. For example, the Faunus (truth) Devil (major lie) discovery and there’s been loads of those along the way. That was a key factor in hiding the esoteric knowledege from people, branding it as the work of the devil and hiding it behind the image of a faunus, leaving people so repulsed by the image that very few would look behind it to find the truth.

Download Google Earth and look up the white house on the map of Earth. You will see it’s no coincidence that the white house is built on which looks like a star, however, it is not simply a star. It is a pentagram and not only that it is inverted (upside down) and not only that, the white house is in the that very point of the pentagram, the point facing down which should make up the top of the “star” for a positive meaning. This means that they are ruled by matter over spirit, material, animal riles over the head, man giving in to his desires of power and control, rule. . Pentagram upright is good, facing down means bad, it is an open doorway to tthe occult forces. An inverted pentagram is painted or outlined on a floor in salt when participating in voodoo rituals and satanic rituals. I bet you never suspected there was one at the white house let alone at the Pentagon as well! It’s the same as seeing the upside down cross pictured on the pope’s throne…everything isn’t a coincidence! It’s there for a reason. And boy, do these people know it.

You can read about it here: http://www.watch.pair.com/mason.html

The inverted pentagram is the second most common symbol used in Mormon architecture, being extensively used in exterior keystones.

The pentagram, when inverted (single point down, double points up), has been used as a symbolic depiction of the Horned God.
"Satanists have turned a good symbol upside-down just like they did with the Christian cross." The pentagram may be inverted with one point down. The implication is of spirit subservient to matter, of man subservient to his carnal desires.
So what’s it doing at the white house??????

The white house pentagram (a satanic symbol) links to the Pentagon links to the Owl at congress. Join the dots and even they form a triangle! These guys are obsessed, and the more “at the top” they are, the more obsessed they become.

celtic isis

14-09-2007, 06:47 PM

that's something i posted before maybe some of it will mak sense lol

adimon

14-09-2007, 06:48 PM

1. You're Questions are great- but all a forum like this can do is point
you in certain directions where you can complete your own reseach.

2. The Question you must ask yourself now; Is that true or is the
other alternative true: That our educational system have done a
fantastic job in destroying this faculty in me?

Without this faculty, you'll be limited in your research to the
3-D sense world.

Can you take a leap of courage to consider other possibilites?

1. Yes I have done research, but none of it convinces me, which is why I am here, to see if there's something that I missed.

If I ask, and then get referred to an interview between a Hollywood film director, and Alex Jones, then I watch it, and think, 'hey that's interesting' but it doesn't convince me. I don't become more close-minded, but many things in just this one cited example don't add up.

2. Sure, intuition and instinct are important, and I apply them when doing my research. When I see a video, and wonder 'why is that flag flapping on the moon?' and then read two different explanations as to why it's flapping from rival schools of belief, what you call instinct is all i have to make up my mind. But if I was to write a book about these issues, I wouldn't include a statement about Ted Bundy being part of a bloodline of shapeshifters without citing my sources, and investigating it in detail to the point where I could offer others fairly strong evidence that he was indeed a shapeshifter.

I don't believe in leaps of faith because I've made them before and gotten nowhere. I won't believe anything that doesn't satisfy my intuition/instinct, or ideally, that I have some evidence for.

You can't disclaim the whole scientific approach in order to refute everything you've been told. I don't always use a scientific approach, but when people refuse to answer my questions I suspect they have something to hide.

So come on, I've thrown the gauntlet, where's the source that says Bundy was a reptile?

I can play it either way with anyone who wishes to discuss these issues with me:- we can look at the specifics - Bilderberg, Bundy, Bush etc... or we can look at the generics - e.g. why does Icke think reptiles exist at all?

Yes there are cultural references, but there's plenty of references to Jesus as well, and I'm not going to believe in him for the sake of it, because it's a load of shit. The world was not created in 4004BC, which is what the Christians say, and surely no-one here will refute that?

adimon

14-09-2007, 07:05 PM

1. Fact: Esoteric knowledge does exist. Yet…Fact: This knowledge is kept from us! Hidden.

2. Anyone who is or was anyone is history eg Issac Newton, Benjamin Franklin George Washington etc etc were all either Freemasons or members of another secret society of which there are many, all under different names.

3. Please research this yourself, it’s too much to go into detail about it here. I’ve been reading about this subject for a year from so many different sources and it is all so obvious a conclusion in the end.

4. they’re involved in rituals and black magic etc

5. Download Google Earth and look up the white house on the map of Earth. You will see it’s no coincidence that the white house is built on which looks like a star, however, it is not simply a star.

1. How is esoteric knowledge hidden? It hasn't been hidden from me, it's just not popular, and therefore not broadcast. Yes, I think it's a shame that channels play gameshows and all that reality tv crap, but it's a free market. If you don't like it, you don't have to watch it. If you want you can go read about the Sumerians.

2. How do you know this? Most of these people you mention have been dead for centuries, and any accounts of them are now at least third hand, so how can you rely on what your instincts 'tell' you about Newton or Ben Franklin? In these situations I think many 'alternative researchers' are being lazy, not intuitive. You can't read that 'Franklin' was a Mason, accept it without question, and then criticise the masses for accepting something else.

3. I've done all the same research as you it seems...jugding by the fact that no one has listed a source I haven't investigated yet...but it's mostly complete bullshit. If I wanted I could make a film such as 'Loose Change' that would appear to suggest that JT International have been secretly putting mashed up babies in their cigarettes. The guy that made that film spent over half the length of the movie pointing his camera at the Internet...as if that's evidence that what he's saying is REAL!!?

4. What is 'black magic' ? What does it do? Name me one example of its use.

5. Even if intended, it's just a mathematical layout. It doesn't change anything. If I put a swastika on my chest do I change who I am...no. If I go outside and beat up a black guy, do I....yes. Please tell me what difference this sketchy idea of a pentagram makes.

I'm really not trying to be at odds with you, so please lets keep this calm and read carefully what one another are saying, and respond so we can find some common ground. I really want to. And I'm not saying this last paragraph to be patronising or accuse you of not being calm or careful, I just want to make sure I can find some answers.

So tell me, how do you know what Skull and Bones is? DO they have whistleblowers?

seanx

14-09-2007, 07:08 PM

So come on, I've thrown the gauntlet,

You see, I don't know what that means.

You're really saying: 'come on - convince me.' As if we have
some obligation or duty to persuade you.

But I don't want to convince you. This is an open forum - not a
fan-club.

David Icke pesents his information: That's his
view of the world.

Maybe he's right- may he's wrong. As he says himself- 'Make
up your own mind'.

Can you tell me which of icke's books you have read ..that
might gets us somwehre

As for Ted Bundy ...and the retiles? Personally, I have no idea. Maybe
you'll be lucky and someone on the forum might have specific knowledge
of this guy - and his case.

seanx

14-09-2007, 07:12 PM

How is esoteric knowledge hidden? It hasn't been hidden from me

Really? Extraordinary answer.

You believe you have access to their true practices?

Well please, enlighten us..... you're about to change the world..

I await with anticipation.

adimon

14-09-2007, 07:50 PM

Hey Seanx

Listen, I'm not asking you to convince me that it's real. I want to know why you really do believe it's real.

You say you don't know about Bundy being a reptile - that's from an Icke book, where he lists all the names and histories of these bloodlines that he goes on an on about.

When I say esoteric knowledge is not hidden it doesn't mean to say that I have knowledge of the true practices of groups I'm not even sure exist. I simply meant that if the stuff Icke says IS true, then even without him there would be people able to discover this stuff, right?

Is he a researcher or some guy who 'receives messages' as I've heard him say many times. He claims to receive 'foolproof' information from mediums. How can someone use the words 'foolproof' and 'medium' in the same sentence without wanting to inform about the medium themselves and their method(s)?

When I said about the gauntlet I wasn't being aggressive. If you look closely at my thread I've made efforts to promote the debate style. The other thread I posted on before this was one where a guy was trying to convince everyone not to have sex and it deteriorated into personal comments and arguments. I thought that posting this thread would be the best way of researching people's beliefs, which seem very strong. Icke's books don't offer enough to me in the way of evidence.

What if I was to write a website that claimed car manufacturers use dead children instead of crash-test dummies, and that those children were captured and sacrificed in a ritual, and I put it in a book. Why would anyone believe me without evidence?

Am I talking to the wrong people here? I don't know.

I just want to know what makes people so sure of the reptilian thing. It seems many people here don't subscribe to that idea either, and I know it's not a fan club. But as an open forum, I'm asking someone to help me understand this black magic, bohemian grove shit.

Sure the Halliburtons of the world aren't producing newspapers detailing their activities, but I haven't seen any evidence yet that George Herbert Walker Bush eats and rapes children, which is what Icke and Alex Jones claim.

Help!

adimon

14-09-2007, 08:00 PM

You're really saying: 'come on - convince me.' As if we have
some obligation or duty to persuade you.

Can you tell me which of icke's books you have read ..that
might gets us somwehre

Just one additional point. I'd like to make it clear that I don't want convincing - that's up to me to do, convince myself, I would like to have some of the questions I have asked, answered, please :)

I have read:-

THE SECRET HISTORY OF USA
ALICE IN WONDERLAND & WTC
HOW BUSH AND BLAIR KNEW THE CHINA SCENARIO
REPTILIAN RESEARCH ARCHIVES
SINCE WHEN IS THE TRUTH NEGATIVE
THE HIDDEN GEARS OF FREEMASONRY
THE ILLUMINATI MILLENNIUM RITUALS
THE REPTILIAN CONNECTION
THE ROTHSCHILD DYNASTY
THE ROUND TABLE BILDERBERG NETWORK
WAS HITLER A ROTHSCHILD?
CHILDREN OF THE MATRIX
THE BIGGEST SECRET
I AM ME I AM FREE

maybe some others

Oh, and why do suggest I talk to Mandelson? I have talked to Mandelson. I think we talked about London and some of its new buildings at that time. This was some time around 8-10 years ago. What should I have asked him about?

kblood

14-09-2007, 08:16 PM

The reptillian thing is something many disagrees with Icke about. It have not really been proven at all, and it seems to be that the reptillian belief is built upon rumors and other "evidence" that leads to the assumption that they are reptillian. Has alot to do with their symbolism as well.

I believe that people like the Illuminati with that kind of knowledge and power can appear as reptiles if they want to, but doesnt have to be their natural appearance.

What makes me believe in the Illuminati is that if we had gone for a better future, and not hiding the truth, we would have been alot more advanced than we are. I am now very certain that UFOs exists... I am not yet certain wether any of them are alien or not though. A scientist like Nikola Tesla has been covered up more or less, even though he made most of our current way of life possible with his inventions. Still we have to be lucky to even hear his name in our schools? Even at the University, when becomming an engineer or something else that has to do with some of the inventions of Nikola Tesla.

I have found alot of evidence saying that we should not even be using any kind of fossil fuel, since there are ways to make free energy. We can make engines that run by themselves, problem is that the patents on them has been bought by oil companies long ago. So it seems that mass production of zero point energy devices is "illegal". That is the only reason I can find for it not being done now. Also most scientists disagrees with zero point energy, because they do not believe in aether. And aether is to be the source of zero point energy.

So many things we are told and learn is just so very wrong, and most people just eat it up as truth. I cannot believe that all the people in power simply are ignorant about all that. They either have people making sure they believe and do what they are supposed to, or they are one of those making sure everyone else doesnt find out about the many secrets being hidden from us.

I do not really see why the question about reptiles have to matter all that much. As for the bloodline thing, I think Icke has that one backed up rather well. Also if there is to be a millenia old agenda, that is to be kept secret, then it is best done by keeping it within a few families. Easier to control the information flow then.

matrixcutter

14-09-2007, 08:16 PM

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

A very high freemasonic order. They existed long before Adam Weishaupt, who started one branch on May 1st, 1776, nothing more.

They are NOT shape-shifting reptiles.

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

By controlling all the relevant systems. You don't have to control everybody in the hierarchy, just the ones at or near the top.

3. What is their agenda?

Power and control.
They do want to microchip the population (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6117), including ultimately brain chips, but that is not the end of it. They want to dramatically reduce the global population, and they want to bring in a new kind of human, purpose-designed to serve the state. The genetic research we hear about on the news is low level stuff. They are decades ahead of that at the top - that's why it's called re-search.

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

Politicians are just front-men. They follow orders. The real power is above politics.
There are enormous think-tanks and non-governmental organisations, like the Club of Rome (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_CrisisCreationClubOfRome_May302007 .html) which pass down their decisions to lower think-tanks, which pass them down, and then politicians and other front men implement them and pretend it was their idea.

Then there are lodge meetings, and places like the Bohemian Grove.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

People like Alan Watt (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/), who quote from the books written by some of the people involved.

I'm open-minded and can see a lot of evidence, for example, that the story of a plane hitting the pentagon is suspect. Reptilian shapeshifters is a little beyond me, tbh. I'm willing to listen to any reasoned argument, however.

Don't hold your breath for that.

I just don't feel swayed by Icke, having read all his books. He seems to just say stuff without any corroboration -.e.g. Ted Bundy was a member of a shapeshifting reptilian bloodline that has economic clout etc. If so, why was Bundy fried in an electric chair?

He was not a reptile. That's just silly. He was a murderer though, and obviously not an important enough family member for the powers that be to rescue him.

I guess what I'm saying is when I read, for example, John Pilger, I might find myself puzzling over his interpretation or opinion, but with Icke all that comes into my head are more unanswerable questions.

You'll notice that lots of reptilian believers will accept ludicrously low quality video footage as proof of shape-shifting reptilians. They don't even need these videos to contain actual shape-shifting, just a few glitches will do.

Thank you for your time. :)

I'm gonna need about three fiddy.
By the way, other important Watt blurbs (actual mp3s available from Watt's website) include May 4, 2007 - "Great Britain, Embryo of World Government - 1938 RIIA Global Meeting" (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_GreatBritainEmbryoOfWorldGovernmen t_May042007_M.html), Nov 9, 2006 "Brigands, Bankers and Bagmen (Royal Inst. for Int'l Affairs / CFR)" (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_BrigandsBankersInternationalAffair s_Nov092006.html) and the ones about psychopathy:
"Predatory Pathocracy, Psychopathy and Their Prey" March 28, 2007 (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_PredatoryPathocracy_March282007.ht ml)

"Prophets of Profit and How Psychopaths Make a Killing" March 29, 2007 (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_ProphetsOfProfit_March292007.html)

"Machiavellian Masters robbing the Wealth of Nations" March 30, 2007 (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_MachiavellianMasters_March302007.h tml)

"The Best Laid Plans of Psychopaths Go Oft' Astray" April 4, 2007 (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_PlansOfPsychopathsGoOftAstray_Apri l042007.html)

thetonic

14-09-2007, 08:38 PM

Dude - This is about information.. You say you have read this and read that and talked to so and so , well thats fine, but you need to look at the bigger picture. Start making the connections and you will quickly see for yourself that something is amiss... Now . . Do I belive everything David Icke says? NO. But he does have some information that would lead me to do my own research and make my own judements..YES. You are asking for proof. Well if there was undeniable proof of all this stuff, then it wouldnt BE a conspiracy, would it? You take the infromation and make your own interpretation of it. Just know that sometimes people do like to hide things, especially from you! Just like how you have probably lied to someone in your life.. Couldnt the government that runs our lives possibly be not telling the truth? NO WAY!:eek:

thetonic

14-09-2007, 08:41 PM

PS. If this is your first post...well its kinda stupid. Why dont you do some more research, make up your mind for yourself, instead worrying why others might believe something Icke said

neutron flux

14-09-2007, 08:42 PM

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

If you remove the label of "Illuminati" you'll find that these groups of individuals essentially share a common factor and that is they are different from "normal" people in the fact that they lack a common component: conscience. This pathological condition is called psychopathy. In these groups they form a Pathocracy which can be defined as:

Pathocracy n. A system of government created by a small pathological minority that takes control over a society of normal people.

The pathological minority's attempts to retain power will always be threatned by the society of normal people, whose criticism keeps growing. Any and all methods of terror and exterminatory policies will be used.

A certain hereditary anomaly isolated as "essential psychopathy" is catalytically and causatively essential for the genesis and survival of a pathocracy.

After such a system has lasted several years, one hundred percent of all cases of essential psychopathy are involved in pathocratic activity.

Andrew M. Lobczewski - Political Ponerology

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

The media mainly but you'll find these pathological deviants in all manner of spheres of influence from business to politics - a psychopath will naturally rise to the top of such institutions.

3. What is their agenda?

Complete control.

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

Apart from the places mentioned I couldn't tell you.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

Political Ponerology - Andrew M. Lobczewski

The Sociopath Next Door - Martha Stout

Mask of Sanity - Hervey Cleckley

Articles to read more:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/cleckley-mos-2.htm

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/cleckley-mos.htm

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

shodan

14-09-2007, 08:44 PM

I havn't read the bulk of this thread so apologies if I skip straight to the bit thats relevant to me and repeat what others have said.

1. Yes there is a pyramid on the bill. But where did you learn about the Illuminati? What are your sources? The reason I posted the questions here is because I've probably read, spoken to, and attended 90% of what you have, but remain unconvinced because it isn't convincing. I've met high-ranking UK politicians, academics and businessmen, and none of them gave me any cause for suspicion. Even when I was concentrating so hard on every word, every facial expression millimetric change and the intonation of their voice. I can tell when people lie, conceal, paraphrase etc.. So what have you seen that I haven't that makes you believe in what you do?

I've had an entire lifetime that you havn't experienced, you've had an entire lifetime as well. The Illuminati - I now hate this word, in the same way I hate the word terrorism, its been hi-jacked. The word Illuminati has turned into a fashion statement of sorts. I am not 100% convinced, probably, at this moment in time I'm about 95% convinced. The following subjects are why, if you need links etc, then bar trawling this entire site and picking some out, PM me and I'll send you some crackers: Prescott Bush, NIcholas Rockerfella, MKULTRA, The Surveilence society, Flouride, Aspartame, DR Kelly, man I could go on forever. Really, if the Illuminati don't exist, then everything else does. I'm on a quest for truth and I have been lied to, like the rest of the planet, one too many times. And BILLIONS have died because of it. We are custodians of the planet and need to pass it on to the following generations in a fit state. The Bastards in power are doing the opposite. I've had 5 Guinesses.

2. So how does printing money relate to you believing (even 50/50) in shapeshifting reptiles, Atlantis, or any of that Anton Wilson stuff? How does Icke know what he claims about the Bloodlines?

It doesnt, that was an answer to a different question.

3. Please expand on what you mean by microchipping.

http://www.verichipcorp.com/
these guys are doing it now, as we speak. Our pets were done years ago.
this should alarm anyone, even my mother gets the chills of this one.

4. What goes on at Bilderberg and Bohemian Grove? How do you know anything about it? If this is annual, is there something more regular. Plans of the order of complexity which Icke believes the NWO are trying to impose would surely require more regular discussion/tweaking, no?

I have no idea, thats why I want to know. I know only the footage, and the yearly snowballing press interest. Enough for logic to tell me its real, let alone intuition.

5. What evidence? What sources? What is Zeitgeist? Yes, I've seen the interviews, but what 'others' do you refer to? What is the single most convincing piece of evidence you've experienced?

Freedom to Fascism, 911 Mysteries, Ian Lungold, Auron Russo, Lennon, Ghandi, M.L.King, Malcolm X, hundreds more.
"Millions of people will die protesting the NEW WORLD ORDER" - HG Wells
The single piece of evidence thing I can't do because there's heaps. Princess Di, Harry wearing a Nazi costume with swasticka on sleeve to fancy dress, the pope (used to sell gas to the Nazis), Kissinger (vietnam, and Iraq/middle east-go figure), Prescott Bush, and all the God Damn Symbolism everywhere, and the mobile phone masts. Man thats some evil shit going on, if you wanna call them the Illuminati then I'm with ya.

Thank you again.

Your welcome, thank you.

Zeitgeist is a free online film and its fucking brilliant, enjoy. http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

seanx

14-09-2007, 08:49 PM

You see your question asking for help from 'Icke believers' ,
I think may give you the wrong impression of most people who
read and study dave icke.

Icke simply presents his view of the world - we 're not here to
covert people to him.

On this site, you'll find opinions, disagreements and
arguments.

As he says himself, he couldn't give a shit what people believe.

Make of it what you will.

Most of Icke real work is concerned with the spiritual aspect of the
situation, essentially the nature of reality, which I'm interested in
- which you'll find in his latest books- tales of the time loop
and Infinite love.

For all your other detailed questions, post them in all the different
specialized sections here where you'll find people who have
more specialized interest and knowledge.

As for reptiles, I don't believe either way. It is possibe, definitely.
Is it definite, I don't know.

What I do know for sure- I think everybody does - is that there
are people who have a cold, heartless, reptilian mentality,
consciousness.

In extreme cases, when this state of mind is surging
through their being, does their physical form change and reflect this
- I don't know. Maybe.

But ask the question, other people here willhave more knowledge of it.

adimon

14-09-2007, 08:57 PM

adimon

14-09-2007, 09:03 PM

PS. If this is your first post...well its kinda stupid. Why dont you do some more research, make up your mind for yourself, instead worrying why others might believe something Icke said

Hi TheTonic. As I have said many times in this thread I've done a fair bit of research but there are so many theories, and so much bogus evidence, or unsubstantiated claims, that I'm not quite sure how to proceed with my research - which is why, for a while, I'm gonna lay off going to web pages filled with reams of claims about a shadow conspiracy, and instead debate with people directly over the differences between my currently-held beliefs and theirs.

I haven't read everything or talked to everyone - no-one has - but I do have some good contacts in politics and I'm intrigued as to how people on this forum think the Illuminati is either recruiting, ordering or bloodlining these people that I know.

Thanks for the stupid comment btw. What a nice thing to say.

i am all i am

14-09-2007, 09:13 PM

I don't believe in leaps of faith because I've made them before and gotten nowhere.

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Adimon.

If you place a space in the word "nowhere" that you have used, you get two words Now Here. You are here becaue you have chosen to be here. How you choose to think, act and speak while you are here are your choices in what you would like to express and experience. At the moment you are experiencing merely what you have expressed, which is a lack of understanding. By altering your expression you will be able to alter your lack of understanding and make up your own mind without the necessity to have others do it for you. After all, it is your own responsibility as to what you think, do and say, no one elses.

David Icke and others you have read, including people here on this forum, have given you a different perspective from their point of view, they are not obliged to give you understanding, that is your responsibility, for it is a choice that only you can make for yourself.

THANK YOU.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

shodan

14-09-2007, 09:33 PM

OK, so some animals and maybe even some humans have been microchipped, but as a global policy, how would they go about putting chips in everybody without it being noticed and/or without people protesting it PUBLICY i.e. not on this forum.

You know when you or your wife, girlfriend whoever has a baby in a readily available hospital and they take it from you, out of the room, the second its popped out................

Vaccines (microchips are the size of DUST now) The pictures you get shown are an ancient model.

adimon

14-09-2007, 10:28 PM

Well when my girlfriend gave birth, the boy wasn't taken away.

adimon

14-09-2007, 10:32 PM

At the moment you are experiencing merely what you have expressed, which is a lack of understanding. By altering your expression you will be able to alter your lack of understanding and make up your own mind without the necessity to have others do it for you. After all, it is your own responsibility as to what you think, do and say, no one elses.

David Icke and others you have read, including people here on this forum, have given you a different perspective from their point of view, they are not obliged to give you understanding, that is your responsibility, for it is a choice that only you can make for yourself.

Thank you but I find this just patronising. I am not obliging anyone with the task of giving me understanding. Its just a shame that so many people are refusing to answer what I consider to be very simple questions.

When someone asks me why I don't believe in God, I'm happy to answer their questions, since the prospect of more atheists in the world makes me happy.

I've asked questions, and received very little answers. People just don't like questions. I wonder why that is?

But thank you to those of you who have answered. :)

i am all i am

14-09-2007, 11:32 PM

Thank you but I find this just patronising. I am not obliging anyone with the task of giving me understanding. Its just a shame that so many people are refusing to answer what I consider to be very simple questions.

When someone asks me why I don't believe in God, I'm happy to answer their questions, since the prospect of more atheists in the world makes me happy.

I've asked questions, and received very little answers. People just don't like questions. I wonder why that is?

But thank you to those of you who have answered. :)

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Adimon.

As has already been explained to you by others, you can take the information any way that you like, that's your choice.

You have asked questions and gotten answers, and for some reason known to yourself you have found the responses not to your liking. Having not liked the responses to your questions, you now complain that others haven't responded to your questions that have already been answered.

which is why, for a while, I'm gonna lay off going to web pages filled with reams of claims about a shadow conspiracy, and instead debate with people directly over the differences between my currently-held beliefs and theirs.

As your own words show, you haven't come here to receive answers to your questions, but instead, you have come here to debate others beliefs. The posing of your questions is merely your way of inciting a debate over others beliefs and is not about you gaining an understnding to your self-confessed inability to understand why others believe as they do.

Why do you find it necessary for others to justify their beliefs to you ???

If you have a problem with anothers beliefs, then that is your problem and not the persons that has those beliefs.

You have come to a forum where people have started to think for themselves, many having done so for years now, set yourself up as an individual that is diametrical to the beliefs held by the majority here, and expected others to pursue your desire for a debate. Maybe you could consier that the majority of people on this forum do not find it necessary to debate with you about your self-confessed lack of understanding, as it is merely your choice not to understand, and they know this and realise that your are looking for them to justify themselves to you. You are looking for others to justify your own lack of understanding by you dismissing their beliefs as "so much bogus evidence, or unsubstantiated claims", and then cry poor me over the fact that people are unwilling to indulge you in your control drama.

Here is a suggestion for you, and you can take it any way that you so desire, have a read of The Celestine Prophecy by James Redfield and pay particular attention to the information regarding control dramas, because you are are playing out the interragator control drama in your competition for energy. Here is a link for the book in pdf format.....

http://www.earthbornerising.com/miscaudio/PDF/TheCelestineProphecy.pdf

.....enjoy the read.

THANK YOU.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

adimon

15-09-2007, 12:31 AM

For anyone still interested in helping me understand how their beliefs were formed, I have reread my posts thus far, and those posted by the others on this thread, and revised my approach. I have therefore compiled the following questions, and if anyone could be so kind as to give me some guidance on these, I'd be extremely grateful. I don't want to have to keep asking questions in such a one way format. I'd much rather get into a debate. If I can get some answers to the below questions, then I will feel more satisfied that this forum is a place I can continue that debate.

===Assuming the Illuminati are powerful men/women rather than reptiles (for the moment) and that they meet in secret societies at places like Bilderberg, Bohemian Grove (or even secret rooms in a subterranean labyrinth underneath the United Nations building), and they discus how to rule the earth and inflict their evil ways:-

1. How do they come to be Illuminati? Do the majority of you believe they are part of a bloodline, or close 'family-type', Geore Bush/Karl Rove associates of that bloodline; or are they just economic constructions based on making money, and they recruit whoever they like?

2. Do you guys think their ultimate aim is power itself, or is it an occult reason or something else?

3. How does an Illuminati control his non-illuminati peers, when he is so outnumbered. e.g. if Blair is one, how does he control the other 659 MPs?

4. Do those that read this thread agree there is a metaphysical and physical difference between interview footage of the fireman from the WTC and pointing the camera at text on a webpage, which are both methods used by the makers of Loose Change? Can you then understand why someone who has not seen enough evidence of the former type re: the Illuminati, to ask believers on the Icke website about this? Most of the evidence is just text on the internet, or text in a book, without citing sources or allowing researchers such as myself to look for themselves.

5. (a repeat question but one I would really like an answer on) Who do you think goes to Bilderberg, and what happens there? How do the British delegates implement power over Parliament and the UK free market? Maybe you could cite an example of how a member of the Illuminati has been to Bilderberg, been briefed or taken part in discussions as to what the overall grand plan is, and returned to the UK, and changed law or policy over here?

- -

When you have been in a specific situation, and then seen that situation reported back with a different story to how you experienced it when you were there, most people would say that the other account was bullshit. Others would look at all the other accounts, and see if they can come up with a reason to doubt themselves and revise their standpoint. I've been in situations misreported by some of the press, and I looked into why it occurred, but also why I believed I had seen what I saw.

I'm really hoping I find such people as the kind who question events here on this forum.

I'm not the enemy! I just don't look at a pentagram on a streetmap and extrapolate from it or believe an ex-president eats kids and rapes them.

wanderer

15-09-2007, 12:31 AM

adimon

At what point WILL you accept that something sinister is afoot?

Will you still be seeking answers when you've been arrested for having the wrong political beliefs?

Or when your children are having to give DNA samples at school?

Or when you have no means of living because your number has been erased from the system?

You will get all the proof you need soon. But I suspect it will come too late.

peace

wanderer

adimon

15-09-2007, 12:54 AM

FOREWORD: My 'negative' comments here do not apply to all posters who responded to my request. Some have been very helpful in providing reference.

You have asked questions and gotten answers, and for some reason known to yourself you have found the responses not to your liking. Having not liked the responses to your questions, you now complain that others haven't responded to your questions that have already been answered.

Not true. I asked lots of specific questions and received no answers to many of those questions. If I ask you "what is your name?" and you reply "none of your business" you have not answered my question. You may feel you don't have to, but you should at least have the guts to admit it.

Maybe you could consider that the majority of people on this forum do not find it necessary to debate with you about your self-confessed lack of understanding, as it is merely your choice not to understand, and they know this and realise that your are looking for them to justify themselves to you. You are looking for others to justify your own lack of understanding by you dismissing their beliefs as "so much bogus evidence, or unsubstantiated claims", and then cry poor me over the fact that people are unwilling to indulge you in your control drama.

I get the feeling you've told people this before when you were unwilling to answer their simple questions. Maybe you think I'm the enemy - a right-winger, a Republican, a Tory, dare I say it....Cheney himself. I have thought about it and I can't work out why you won't discuss your beliefs. When I investigated past events such as JFK Assassination, Moon Landings etc.. I found everyone very helpful.

Here is a suggestion for you, and you can take it any way that you so desire, have a read of The Celestine Prophecy by James Redfield and pay particular attention to the information regarding control dramas, because you are are playing out the interragator control drama in your competition for energy. OR][/SIZE][/B]

Yeah I read that when I was like 13 or 14, and again when I was 21. It's a novel, with SOME interesting ideas, but it's a novel, it made its author millions of dollars, who was constantly adding to the collection of books you had to collect. Very hyped. And since I read it, I've hung out with all kinds of people, and not one of them has become invisible due to their vibrations, and not one of them has presumed to second-guess me or my intentions, or thoughts, or think they know me, as much as you have, you self-righteous <INSERT AS APPROPRIATE>.

You don't like me cuz I have different views. But remember, I wanted to debate and you didn't. I wasn't debating because I want you to justify, I want to debate so I can gain a better understanding of the flows of information, because if I only judge those flows on how they affected me, I'd be an idiot.

You've succeeded in frustrating me with your pink new-age writing, but you've failed by making damn sure I don't wanna talk to you again. And maybe you all feel the same way about me ("oh look he's exhibiting the poor me drama" - no, it's called manners, and giving a sh*t about things). But this attitude of 'You're not welcome here if you ask too many questions' is something I really didn't expect. I'm disapointed.

You wanna trade good book recommendations - how about "Adolf Hitler - My Part in His Downfall"

adimon

15-09-2007, 01:01 AM

[QUOTE=wanderer;125572]adimon

At what point WILL you accept that something sinister is afoot?

I'm not saying something sinister isn't afoot. But it seems to me, currently, from the research that I've done, more likely that it's more to do with greed and territorial domination than micro-chipping, child-abuse and effigies of Owls. And because a lot of people believe this other stuff, I wanna know why so I can make sure I've done enough research, and just maybe...they're right in which case I REALLY wanna hear why they believe it.

Will you still be seeking answers when you've been arrested for having the wrong political beliefs?

What political beliefs are considered wrong? And by whom?

Or when your children are having to give DNA samples at school?

Hasn't happened to anyone where I live. Has it happened to you?

Or when you have no means of living because your number has been erased from the system?

What number was erased? Is this a real event or a theoretical one? I've been homeless, penniless and jobless before and it didn't end my means of living. Has this happened to you? If it has I want to hear about it.

Fer chrissakes I'm not denying there is more to the world than meets the eye. Why are you guys being so 'X-Files' about the whole thing?

matrixcutter

15-09-2007, 01:11 AM

--FAO Matrix Cutter--

"By controlling all the relevant systems. You don't have to control everybody in the hierarchy, just the ones at or near the top."

"Politicians are just front-men. They follow orders. The real power is above politics.
There are enormous think-tanks and non-governmental organisations, like the Club of Rome which pass down their decisions to lower think-tanks, which pass them down, and then politicians and other front men implement them and pretend it was their idea."

Where and when are the orders given, and in what chain?
I would have to be in the chain to know the exact details. I do know that Professor Carroll Quigley revealed that politicians are vetted and approved by the Royal Institute of International Affairs.

Do you believe the individual MPs are told the protocol, or only selected ones?
I think they all know it's a sham, but only selected ones know exactly how dirty it really is, and those ones love it.

If so, which ones are told?
The ones who have proved that they are good puppets i.e. they follow orders without asking questions. The leaders of political parties and the front-benchers who actually do something important are generally informed, but they are only told what they need to know, which is an important rule throughout all power hierarchies. There are exceptions, and there are people who don't like it, but carry on anyway.

Do the illuminati control all the parties, all the MPs?
All the (popular) parties, not all the MPs, but enough. Quigley said that they are all vetted, and there is cooperation between them, but at the lower levels competition between them is allowed, publicly, which basically maintains the pretence of it all.

Check the logos - a dove, a red rose and an illuminated torch have all been used by secret societies, but now the tories have changed from a torch to a tree.

"People like Alan Watt, who quote from the books written by some of the people involved."

I'm sorry, what do you mean by this? Could you clarify please?
I mean as well as quoting from books put out by organisations like the Club of Rome and the RIIA themselves, he quotes from books written by big players, individuals who work for the elite, the establishment, the big boys, the people at the top e.g. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Carroll Quigley, Charles Galton Darwin, Lord Bertrand Russell (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_Blurb_RussellianRegime_for_RegulatingThe Rabble_June282007.html), Jacques Attali, Mikhail Gorbachev, Albert Pike, etc., etc.

"They do want to microchip the population, including ultimately brain chips, but that is not the end of it. They want to dramatically reduce the global population, and they want to bring in a new kind of human, purpose-designed to serve the state. The genetic research we hear about on the news is low level stuff. They are decades ahead of that at the top - that's why it's called re-search."

OK, so some animals and maybe even some humans have been microchipped, but as a global policy, how would they go about putting chips in everybody without it being noticed and/or without people protesting it PUBLICY i.e. not on this forum.
By creating the desire for a microchip implant. People will not be chipped forcibly, that wouldn't work, apart from criminals, paedophiles and other minority groups who attract no sympathy.

They intend to introduce it gradually, and it has already started, as you have noticed. There are many angles they can do this from, including the anxious parent angle (http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article1788169.ece), the medical records angle (http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=23574), the convenience "no more need to carry that troublesome cash" angle (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/190507Sorry.htm) and more - see the other articles (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8491).

When it comes to the brain chip, there was an international science meeting at which they revealed that the chip was ready now (about 6 years ago) and that all that was left to do was to condition the public to accept the chip. They said that they would do this by putting the chips in movies, novels and cartoons for children. Since then we have had The Final Cut with Robin Williams, and Stepford Wives with Nicole Kidman, Christopher Walken, Bette Midler, etc. which both featured brain chips. James Bond was also microchipped in the latest film, but not with a brain chip, yet.

Then there is the mobile phone industry and the video games industry, which both seem to be stampeding inevitably towards the implanted brain chip as a seemingly natural progression.

The more people take an implanted chip, the more it will become an accepted part of modern society. The more accepted it becomes, the more it will become a part of the system, used within more and more aspects of the system i.e. increasingly necessary, and this means that it will become increasingly difficult not to take one, and eventually people will be ridiculed and insulted for not having one, and probably labelled a terrorist or terrorist sympathiser, and/or Luddite.

Then there is the astonishly irrational influence of celebrity. If David Beckham went on TV tomorrow, and whored himself a little bit more, this time over microchip implants, then by Christmas there would tens of thousands of people with chips. If a load of celebrities were constantly on TV whoring themselves over microchip implants, for months on end, a few million would get them, and WANT them.

See these Alan Watt blurbs/transcripts (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6117) for a wealth of information about this agenda.

"I'm gonna need about three fiddy."

You can have ten times that if you help me find any answers.

Thank you very much.
£35?
Back of the net!

adimon

15-09-2007, 01:44 AM

I would have to be in the chain to know the exact details. I do know that Professor Carroll Quigley revealed that politicians are vetted and approved by the Royal Institute of International Affairs.

All the (popular) parties, not all the MPs, but enough. Quigley said that they are all vetted, and there is cooperation between them, but at the lower levels competition between them is allowed, publicly, which basically maintains the pretence of it all.

Thank you Mindcutter for being prepared to answer my questions and engage me.

How are the MPs vetted? Is this before or after elections? Do you think some constituency elections are rigged? Are all of them?

I'd be especially interested to hear about this, since I have some very close connections to UK politics and would love to get your insight on this.

shodan

15-09-2007, 01:52 AM

Well when my girlfriend gave birth, the boy wasn't taken away.

Well hey ho lucky you

herebynightfall

15-09-2007, 01:58 AM

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

3. What is their agenda?

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

I'm open-minded and can see a lot of evidence, for example, that the story of a plane hitting the pentagon is suspect. Reptilian shapeshifters is a little beyond me, tbh. I'm willing to listen to any reasoned argument, however.

I just don't feel swayed by Icke, having read all his books. He seems to just say stuff without any corroboration -.e.g. Ted Bundy was a member of a shapeshifting reptilian bloodline that has economic clout etc. If so, why was Bundy fried in an electric chair?

I guess what I'm saying is when I read, for example, John Pilger, I might find myself puzzling over his interpretation or opinion, but with Icke all that comes into my head are more unanswerable questions.

Thank you for your time. :)

To me, this is all together a sketchy post.

This forum is about answering questions or something your stumped on.
And I see that your seeking knowledge.

But it feels that the way you're asking what your asking...
would be the same way that somebody in the system would be asking questions.

We call that TROLLING here.

when you see the bigger picture
you'll answer all of those questions yourself, how it should be done

adimon

15-09-2007, 01:59 AM

Well hey ho lucky you

Yeah lucky me. You gonna send me those crackers like you said you would?

adimon

15-09-2007, 02:05 AM

To me, this is all together a sketchy post.

This forum is about answering questions or something your stumped on.
And I see that your seeking knowledge.

But it feels that the way you're asking what your asking...
would be the same way that somebody in the system would be asking questions.

We call that TROLLING here.

No, you're just paranoid or plain mistaken. I'm not from the system. I just have different beliefs to you.

I'm not seeking knowledge as such. I'm looking to study what influences a person's believing or not believing the same source of evidence. I'm genuinely interested in that. I've looked into a lot of these sources and come away frustrated, whereas others get caught up in snowballing effect of belief. I want to know more, not cuz I'm 'one of them', but just cuz I'm curious.

Why is my post sketchy?

I'm sure if this were a real life conversation you wouldn't have the same fear about me. :)

matrixcutter

15-09-2007, 02:15 AM

How are the MPs vetted?
I don't know, but being closely observed and tested in some way is obviously part of the process.

Is this before or after elections?
This is before they are allowed into politics, but there are probably ongoing checks throughout their careers.

Do you think some constituency elections are rigged? Are all of them?
It wouldn't surprise me at all if some were rigged. I doubt they are all rigged. The main point about politics is that it doesn't matter which party is in power - the same agenda continues because all sides answer to the same puppet masters.

Another important point is that it doesn't matter what an individual politician's views are, if he/she then goes against them to "toe the (party) line" - a freemasonic expression. What was the point in voting for him/her?

shodan

15-09-2007, 02:26 AM

Yeah lucky me. You gonna send me those crackers like you said you would?

Of course.

seanx

15-09-2007, 02:30 AM

adimon, you ask some great questions.

And you're obviously very sharp and intelligent with an excellent
knowledge of UK politics.

But you're asking a lot of questions, which is fair enough, but
you are intelligent enough to know that responding in a medium
like this is very limited in that we have to type everything.

You'll probably appreciate in a day or two ( by reading all the posts)
that this forum is continuously attacked by people who
hate Icke's ideas from - fundamentalist islams
and Christians to militant materialists - so people here are
reluctant to fuly engage in dialogue with people who
seems to always ask a lot of questions but give
little information in return.

Give it time, and if you are genuine - it will be well worth it.
There are a lot of very sharp and good people on this forum who will
have a good and positive argument with you!!

adimon

15-09-2007, 03:34 AM

herebynightfall

15-09-2007, 04:03 AM

I'm sure if this were a real life conversation you wouldn't have the same fear about me. :)

Just hearing that kinda made it a bit more comforting.

Yeah misunderstandings happen a lot when in writing.

adimon

15-09-2007, 01:22 PM

Just hearing that kinda made it a bit more comforting.

Yeah misunderstandings happen a lot when in writing.

So what's the lesson to learn from this?

Don't accuse someone of being a troll with no just cause.

Remember the Guildford 4 my man...

abrilliantone

15-09-2007, 01:41 PM

Greetings all :) nice thread adimon I have a question for you. May I ask what do you believe in?

phoebe

15-09-2007, 02:50 PM

adimon

15-09-2007, 03:23 PM

Greetings all :) nice thread adimon I have a question for you. May I ask what do you believe in?

Thank abrilliantone

Ok, so roughly speaking...

I believe that corporations want to exhaust every market, and will try their hardest to do so, with the help of governmental forces - which prevent an entirely free market.

Clearly the world is being heavily influenced by powerful men, but I think it's a bad idea to simplify or generalise by saying left/right wing, or that they all have the same agenda...and I think it's just plain wrong to say they come from the same bloodlines, or that they are reptiles WITHOUT ANY KIND OF REASONABLE EVIDENCE.

I've watched close to 20 videos of so called shapeshifting and I'm past laughing now. There is nothing happening to G.H.W. Bush's eyes that isnt caused by light and poor video quality.

I am interested in freemasonry, and have yet to decide exactly what role they play.

Much of what I've read about the nature of secret societies is supposition and assumption., and now I'm going over every stone again, to make sure I haven't missed anything.

A question that just occurred to me (and please don't think that me asking it makes me ONE OF THEM):-

Can a reasoned argument be made as to why businessmen shouldn't meet in private, without contradicting the right to privacy which many of this forum are so vehement about?

Oh, and one more thing, I BELIEVE Clinton would be a much worse idea for the world than Duncan Hunter.

lifeofbrian

15-09-2007, 04:41 PM

A question that just occurred to me (and please don't think that me asking it makes me ONE OF THEM):-

Can a reasoned argument be made as to why businessmen shouldn't meet in private, without contradicting the right to privacy which many of this forum are so vehement about?

Hello.
There is nothing wrong with people meeting in private. People do so all the time. It is seen as a problem though if the people meeting in private are all part of the upper echelons of society, and if they swear allegiance to each other over the people they supposedly have significant power over, or are to serve. Like G Washington, freemason first, president second.

If policemen, judges, politicians, doctors, clergy, etc. - if they are first and foremost loyal to each other, they have the opportunity to place themselves above the law, become 'untouchable' in effect.

adimon

15-09-2007, 05:10 PM

If policemen, judges, politicians, doctors, clergy, etc. - if they are first and foremost loyal to each other, they have the opportunity to place themselves above the law, become 'untouchable' in effect.

So do readers of this thread really believe that regardless of who they vote for - MP, Congressman, Governor, President - that they're all masons/ISB/whatever?

I think the real reason there's not a lot of difference between the two parties on both sides of the Atlantic is due to the symbiotic nature of voter apathy, and manifesto inertia.

But it can change.

Who would people rather have? Politicians who vigorously stress and stand up for their beliefs - like Michael Howard - or people who are afraid to say anything for fear of being judged by the electorate.

ADIMON

john white

15-09-2007, 05:17 PM

Thank abrilliantone

Ok, so roughly speaking...

I believe that corporations want to exhaust every market, and will try their hardest to do so, with the help of governmental forces - which prevent an entirely free market.

Clearly the world is being heavily influenced by powerful men, but I think it's a bad idea to simplify or generalise by saying left/right wing, or that they all have the same agenda...and I think it's just plain wrong to say they come from the same bloodlines, or that they are reptiles WITHOUT ANY KIND OF REASONABLE EVIDENCE.

I've watched close to 20 videos of so called shapeshifting and I'm past laughing now. There is nothing happening to G.H.W. Bush's eyes that isnt caused by light and poor video quality.

I am interested in freemasonry, and have yet to decide exactly what role they play.

Much of what I've read about the nature of secret societies is supposition and assumption., and now I'm going over every stone again, to make sure I haven't missed anything.

A question that just occurred to me (and please don't think that me asking it makes me ONE OF THEM):-

Can a reasoned argument be made as to why businessmen shouldn't meet in private, without contradicting the right to privacy which many of this forum are so vehement about?

Oh, and one more thing, I BELIEVE Clinton would be a much worse idea for the world than Duncan Hunter.

Ok, well that's helpful, becuase it gives us a frame of reference where we can start to have a conversation

Lets start with your questions:

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

First and foremost: an idea, part real, part metaphor

this idea is characterised by:

1) Having knowledge not known to the majority of humanity
2) Using that knowledge in support of and in order to advance their aims
3) Believing, in a variety of ways, that the rest of humanity should not know/could not handle that knowledge

On that basis there are "clean" illuminati (Service To Others justified) and "dirty" illuminati (Service To Self justified), people who are "iluminati" may not think of themselves as "illuminati", nonetheless they behave like illuminati. STO justified illuminati, btwe, does not make them "good" guys: it only means that they have the belief that what they do is nessacary for "the greater good".

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

Good use of the word influence, and entirely correct: a key mistake is to believe the illuminati have control: they do not: but their methods can make their influence powerful. There are a number of techniques, compartmentalisation being the most obvious one, but all involve the creation and maintainace of illusions that the illuminati know to be only perceptions, and different from the perception they hold from where they exert their influence/control. Myths, story and the shaping of/limiting of information are important tools, as are use of universal knowledge regarding energy and thought

3. What is their agenda?

Hard to tell, and unlikely to be a single definition... the illuminati act like competing mafia families... they will compete with each other but unite around common goals. The precise what of their agenda is not as relevant as the methodology they use, and the resulting suppression of human potential. Ever greater centralisation and concentration of power seems to be a consistant theme all the way back into what we call "prehistory"

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

Firstly not all politicians are illuminati! far from it: and very few politicans are illuminati compared to other sections of society (religion, economics, banking, science, law, military, educatrion, and others outside of society altogether): but there are a great deal of organisations that even major politicians are part of that go completely unreported in the MSM, and the suggestion of which, although slightly exposed now, would have been called "insane!" just a few years ago. Bilderberg group is a great example, as is council of foriegn relations, Trilateral commision, round table, g8, so on and so on. Many many opportunities exist, inlcuding "holidays" that are not holidays (bohemian grove!) to say nothing of what we might call "magical" abilities

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

Leaving aside intuition, there are many hard resources that allow a very different picture of how the world opporates to be seen. Any study of power always shows secrecy myth and illusion to be major tools of what is euphemistically called "statecraft", investigating what becomes suppressed shows the knowledge being taken out of circulation and its potential, study of secret socieites shows the systems and methodology of maintaining both control and pursuing goals very different to what most of a particular organisation might beleive. Take your pick as to where to start!

The bloodline thing, btw, is no joke. It is the very essence of the concept we understand as "royalty", and the level of co-incidence to explain, for example, the blood connections between the vast majority of US presidents and European royalty can in no way be considered credible IF society actually operates in the way it is presented to people as operating. Again, think mafia families as a metaphor

binhdinh_khiwarrior

15-09-2007, 05:20 PM

Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

3. What is their agenda?

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

alright i'll have a crack at answering ur questions ... i hope u were serious-coz im going to do my best fro you...

Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

- a group of people that control everything using a pyramid/departmentalized system of control. So at each level of power, the one who is in command may think they "know" all there is to know, but in fact they don't. Like a bank teller doesn't know what the banks plans for expansion within say the next few months- but the area manager does-likewise the area manager does not know who the state manager intends to fire next week....the sate manager does not know what the owner of the bank's plans are for international business deals ect ect....each level is granted "power" to an extent, loyalty is rewarded with position and this next level of "power"...and this goes on and on...the one's at the very very very top of everything-the one's ppl do not see are never reported-control the controllers, that control the controllers that control everyday shit like how much a person can led from a bank ect ect....

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

They set up buisness long before the democratic policies of nations were established-through mystery schools of the ancient world (that was like the early version). now they don't need to be anything actually public, becasue they own the guys that own the guys that own the guys that own the banks, run in politics, ect....
They specifically use "credit" money that does not exist to gradually take control of real wealth. Ie Interest fro credit loans, they make real money from not nothing, by typing on a computer that u have $50,000-they don't take out cash from the vault and give it to you do they?So they physically loose nothing (only the cost of the electricity to run the computer and pay the employee-who by the way knows nothing of the dealings at he top). If people can't pay the bank forecloses, gains the income of the payments that were made and gains physical land. They spent almost nothing getting it either...

3. What is their agenda?

gradual centralization of world power/ one world government...

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

They don't..i will explain in a second....

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

Okie doie, well ickes done most of the amalgamating research, fitted the things together very well. You need to actually read his work-obviously you haven't or you wouln't need to ask such questions-they are answered in his books! and specifically in the dvd "Secrets of the Matrix" part 1-2. part 3 is mostly spiritual stuff, you might not be interested.....(there are torrents on the net and u can get it on ARES p2p-if u can't buy it)
Why do i believe? because everything he has spoken of has happened to me.. i won't get into it, because i do not think you would entertain such ideas, as it is probably so far removed from your paradigm- and as such it would waste my time doing so, what i do suggest is watch children of the matrix, and watch it and accept it for what it is without preconceived notions-based on what you have learned so far, otherwise you would just waste your time also.....

If u have any more questions feel free to PM, or if you want to discuss what i have said :-)

Peace and love brother or sister

adimon

15-09-2007, 05:30 PM

First and foremost: an idea, part real, part metaphor...Good use of the word influence, and entirely correct: a key mistake is to believe the illuminati have control: they do not: but their methods can make their influence powerful.
...the illuminati act like competing mafia families...very few politicans are illuminati compared to other sections of society

Thank you very much John. I think what you write is very sensible. I still think that people extrapolate far too much from the situation as it is.

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you write - but how do people make the step from understanding the global power situation, to inferring claims of G.H.W.Bush as a child murderer/cannibal, and microchipping, without being careful not to hit the slippery slope where too many people find themselves, believing something just because it seems to 'fit' ?

Thank you very much for your response.

adimon

15-09-2007, 05:36 PM

You need to actually read his work-obviously you haven't or you wouln't need to ask such questions-they are answered in his books! and specifically in the dvd "Secrets of the Matrix" part 1-2. part 3 is mostly spiritual stuff, you might not be interested.....(there are torrents on the net and u can get it on ARES p2p-if u can't buy it)
Why do i believe? because everything he has spoken of has happened to me.. i won't get into it, because i do not think you would entertain such ideas, as it is probably so far removed from your paradigm- and as such it would waste my time doing so, what i do suggest is watch children of the matrix, and watch it and accept it for what it is without preconceived notions-based on what you have learned so far, otherwise you would just waste your time also.....

If u have any more questions feel free to PM, or if you want to discuss what i have said :-)

Peace and love brother or sister

Actually, I have read a large portion of Icke's work, but as I've mentioned many times in this thread already, he often makes unsubstantiated claims with no sources of evidence and/or reference.

Everything he's spoken of has happened to you? Of course I'd like to listen to this idea. Please don't patronise me by saying it's outside my paradigm - I have lots of connections to all areas of society, including friends living on the fringe of it, so give me a chance. It would not be a waste of your time to share your experiences with me, I can assure you.

I've watched the DVDs you mentioned, from BitTyrant (I prefer it to the other clients as it enables me 4Mb/s download).

And it's brother (not sister). :)

Thanks

seanx

15-09-2007, 05:40 PM

ADIMON

I thought you were genuine - here to look at things with
an open mind- yet at the bottom of each post you're
advertising that fraudster - James Randi!

So just how open is your mind? Do you too have an
agenda?

Also, you seem to want absolute proof for everything. However
life is not like that.

For example, when you get on the bus next week- try asking the
driver for proof that he won't crash or have an accident.

john white

15-09-2007, 06:24 PM

Thank you very much John. I think what you write is very sensible. I still think that people extrapolate far too much from the situation as it is.

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you write - but how do people make the step from understanding the global power situation, to inferring claims of G.H.W.Bush as a child murderer/cannibal, and microchipping, without being careful not to hit the slippery slope where too many people find themselves, believing something just because it seems to 'fit' ?

Thank you very much for your response.

Well lets look at those areas: firstly, lets swiftly cover reptillian theory, as talked about by Icke, to get it "out of the way": it is true in three very important ways: firstly it is mythologically true: the worlds mythology is replete with shape shifting, non-humanoids, snake-people, snake gods, reptile symbolism and so forth. This is a flat fact, globally evidenced. On that basis, reptillian theory is as true as anything mythological can be said to be true. Secondly, metaphorically true: cold, heartless, no empathy, obsession with postion and the trappings of power: that describes a lot of people who could be considered "powerful" in the world. Thirdly subjectively experientially true, anyone who has encountered what they understand to be reptillians , or demons, or "souless" people, has to cope with the experience in some way or another, by denial, by acceptance, by remaining open to the possibility that it may or may not have been what it appeared to be, but they cannot forget, and its pointless anyone who hasnt had that experience trying to tell them the experiance is impossible, regardless of whether the experice is "real" or "hallucinatory". Where Repillian theory is NOT true is in terms of provable scientific materialism: that may be becuase it is not true on that level, it may be becuase evidence to demonstrate that truth has not come forward and may at a later date, nonetheless it cannot be dismissed, given the other forms of proof, unless we make a decision not to consider the possibility credible: and as previously mentioned, for those who have had the experiance that is not a simple choice to make. Yes, I do consider some of those people to be willful fantasists: but certainly not all of them, and some of them are on this forum

With regards to satanism amongst the "elite", well there is also a great deal of evidence for this, from the history of secret societies, the writings of "elite" members of society, peadophile rings (operation Ore in wales UK being a recent example of a "D Noticed" scandal), the vast numbers of missing children every year (even eliminating likley causes, it still leaves a very large number!). More than enough to conclude that very strange occult practices are far more common, especially amongst the powerful, than might commonly be considered the case. Specifically regarding Bush, there is the testimony of people like cathy O Brian (who I believe believes what she says is true, make what you will of that), membership of Skull and Bones with its death cult rituals and so forth: so a fair bit there

As far as microchipping goes (the "technotronic agenda") theres a vast amount of academic quality sources when one looks on a global level that corporations are certainly working towards some kind of global control grid, with different aspects more obvious in different nations: its been written about by people like Brezinski, postulated in subtle ways in the media, capabilities are boasted about in trade magazines and company literature, and so forth: however, what it isnt is ever spelled out exactly as what it is: some extrapolation is nessacary: but not too much extrapolation. And definately even the capabilities of currently existing technology go far beyond what the general public believe those capabilities to be: for example, the tracking capabilities of mobile phones (Mulder and Scully never knew why ciggarette smoking man was one step ahead! LOL)

And finally, the "slippery slope". Absolutely. It is a very real danger, it requires careful self observation and self questioning to avoid simply becoming paranoid or believing absurdity without question. I consider this is largely a consequence of the kind of education people recieve: we are not trained to think critically, we are trained to absorb and repeat back information: we are, in fact, trained to believe. We therefore get in the habit of believing, and a common part of what is called the "awakening" process usually sees people rejecting a paradigm given to them by their social "programming" (we live in a democracy accountable to the people) and then adopt the very next paradigm they come across in the only way they know how: by beleiving it (Jews run the world!). I consider this to be a major problem, but one that can only be addressed by continously questioning and refining, and also by looking for themes over specifics. I should also mention that caution over the use of words is very important, and looking for the pattern of behaviour/pattern of thought behind the words usual reveals whether a info source is really credible

Finally I'd mention that I quite often converse and debate with people who consider themselves rationalists or sceptics, and its suprising how often "reason" is used as a cover for quite emotional thinking, and semantic techniques used to disguise egoic desires beneath a conversation. and of course, its also quite often that what "scepticism" really means is simply rejecting anything that doesnt match a consensual model of what "is" and what "is not" possible that is actually quite arbitrary

celtic isis

15-09-2007, 07:31 PM

just want to say we're not icke believers, that already shows you're missing something in understanding all this...

Some of us came to find out about what's a miss with this world through Icke and others, like myself, found out through other sources...people who were often assassinated as a result of these sources...

Read Cooper's book - disregard the stuff about aliens cause it's outdated now, but Behold a Pale Horse, it's one of the most important things you could read.

We all know the game, it's so obvious, so simple yet so expertly orchestrated, it's been going on for centuries man!

Also not all politicians etc are involved - it's just the ones in the know, not all of them are up at the top of the pyramid you know. That's not how the system works.
Have you actually read somehting like Tales from the Time Loop?

I can't understand anyone having these kind of questions after reading that...i left my copy with my dad, he's a very well read man, i didn't expect him to take any of what icke has to say on board and he's absolutely loving it! He already knew about the NWO etc years and years ago from reading other authors. My dad thinks it will never come into fruition cause when the time comes they'll all end up fighting between themselves as to who will be the overall head or ruler over the one world structure...

Right now and for many, many years, they've all be united in this goal of robbing us of our freedom from right under our noses, but when the time comes to decide who rules all, how will they do it...i'm sure it's something the elite themselves are afraid of and in denial about.

It's all so simple really.

Watch the aaron russo film. And read icke PROPERLY.

sorry if i sound bitchy lol :o

celtic isis

15-09-2007, 07:38 PM

1. How is esoteric knowledge hidden? It hasn't been hidden from me, it's just not popular, and therefore not broadcast. Yes, I think it's a shame that channels play gameshows and all that reality tv crap, but it's a free market. If you don't like it, you don't have to watch it. If you want you can go read about the Sumerians.

omg you are so annoying lol

that's my point, it IS hidden! It's NOWHERE in mainstream education etc.

WHO IS GOING TO ACTIVELY SEARCH FOR KNOWLEDGE THEY AREN'T EVEN AWARE EXITS IN THE FIRST PLACE????

OR THAT THIS VERY KNOWLEDGE IS BRANDED AS THE WORK OF THE DEVIL, WHICH IN A WORLD RULED BY RELIGIOUS DOGMA KEEPS THE MASSES IN THE DARK IN RELATION TO THIS KNOWLEDGE.

:confused:

celtic isis

15-09-2007, 07:41 PM

Really? Extraordinary answer.

You believe you have access to their true practices?

Well please, enlighten us..... you're about to change the world..

I await with anticipation.

exactly seanx, this guy is a waste of time, i'm sorry mate but you are!

you picked out crap one lines out of what i posted to you, and like it doesn't even make sense the points you picked out there.

so keep fretting that's all i can say.

:rolleyes: i'm not here to explain things to you. i haven't got the time!

we don't believe anything cause it seems to fit...jesus the NWO is happening ok, it's a done deal, who gives a crap about the rest!

so what are your answers as to why the world is the way it is...darwinism lol?

kblood

15-09-2007, 07:50 PM

Yup, I agree with Mr. White. All the things Icke writes and everything written on these forums are things I am skeptical about. I wont claim them to be true or false, unless I know it from personal experience, and then I often still skeptical :p

What I am doing on this forum is trying to see what others have to say against the conspiracy theories, and for the conspiracy theories. Backing up the theories are certainly the number of cover ups that happens from time to time. I agree that many conspiracies are found, only because they are looked for, and not because they are true. It has happened quite a few times and proven wrong later.

One thing I have looked into myself is the freemasons though. I know for a fact that one of the first initiations you go through as a freemason (here in Denmark), you are to go to a christian cross (maybe in a churc, not sure, some kind of chapel anyway), and kiss the cross or something. The right thing to do though (in their eyes), is spitting on the cross. Those who kiss the cross are congratulated for doing so, but after the initiation, it is the ones who spat on the cross who are congratulated and taken to the next level of freemasonry. What starts out as spitting on a cross seems to indicate what it probably leads to. I know this from a personal friend who "infiltrated" them. I might even have a chance of joining them myself :) Kinda tempting to know what its all about. I bet the first many levels are only about money, business and reputation though. Im guessing nothing is revealed about greater secrets and global agendas before 30th degree or maybe not even before 33th degree. Sounds like the 33rds arent even in the loop about everything. That kind of people seem very likely to keep all the secrets they can, to themselves only.

celtic isis

15-09-2007, 07:52 PM

geo2

15-09-2007, 08:03 PM

:) a few hundred hours of listening2/reading Alan Watt and all or most of your questions will be answered by Sir/Dr Alan [saint/god][level-human]..............

:cool: the easy way 2download the audio is the iTunes Pod Way, follow the Pod-White-Rabbit on Alan's Site..........n 'max' gave u the links already...

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/podsinfo.html
{ 4the iTunes Podcast etc }

{ good-luck, ho/hoe } lol/LOL

Hail Penelopee ! MotherEarth-Real-Matrix-Maria~Star-of-the~SEA

adimon

15-09-2007, 08:06 PM

It's all so simple really.

Watch the aaron russo film. And read icke PROPERLY.

sorry if i sound bitchy lol

Hello Isis

I'm not sure if you are sorry for sounding bitchy, but not to worry...I'm a big boy and I'm not worried about little misunderstandings. I'm also sorry if I've come across as bitchy to you. It was certainly not my intention.

But why am I a waste of time? Because I have a different opinion?

I am actually covering this topic in a great deal of detail with matrixcutter via PM and would love to do the same with you, but you're currently not available to me in that regard. I think we could learn a lot from each other if you gave me a chance. I would love to learn from you. :)

adimon

15-09-2007, 08:08 PM

Isis, what I meant to say was you don't sound bitchy. You're obviously very passionate about your beliefs. :)

adimon

15-09-2007, 08:10 PM

I watched the Russo film - it's interesting...

What do you mean by read Icke properly?

lifeofbrian

15-09-2007, 08:17 PM

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

To the best of my knowledge, the Freemasons (brothers) are the interface, and the Illuminati itself is code for a mindset, memes, and discarnates influencing.

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

They seem to believe that the pyramid is the only viable system. Hey, even on forums; upper classes and lower classes. See 'titles' and powers attached. Currently, the 'masculine' seems to be the 'norm'. (Ref: 'God', 'Father', 'Leader', etc.)

3. What is their agenda?

Keeping the current reality/civilisation intact. If public learning increases and results in violence my guess is that they will collapse it once again, as has been done many times before, in order to wipe out knowledge, and start all over again. (Ref: radioactive soil in India. History repeats.)

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

As it is an influence on a subtle level, it is part of a mindset, so this meme works at all times in any circumstance. Can be found in people in all walks of life, in all cultures, in all times. It is a mind-virus.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

Experience and research.

I'm open-minded and can see a lot of evidence, for example, that the story of a plane hitting the pentagon is suspect. Reptilian shapeshifters is a little beyond me, tbh. I'm willing to listen to any reasoned argument, however.

I just don't feel swayed by Icke, having read all his books. He seems to just say stuff without any corroboration -.e.g. Ted Bundy was a member of a shapeshifting reptilian bloodline that has economic clout etc. If so, why was Bundy fried in an electric chair?

I guess what I'm saying is when I read, for example, John Pilger, I might find myself puzzling over his interpretation or opinion, but with Icke all that comes into my head are more unanswerable questions.

Thank you for your time. :)

kblood

15-09-2007, 08:24 PM

not true of every lodge. :rolleyes:

That is what I figured. So I wrote here in Denmark... And you are saying not true because of what? You know all of their initiations? Seems to me that the real "answers" to their tests are something not talked about. The real reasons of why someone goes from one degree to another is probably not the reasons most members are told they are. As I said, the ones kissing the cross (or maybe just bowing down to it or standing before it), arent told they did anything wrong. They might even get to higher degrees, but are probably not allowed to the highest degrees. So unless you hear it from a 33rd degree mason (and you are sure he is telling the truth), then you probably wont get to know for sure.

This initiation had to take place in one of the bigger cities here. Dont know why, but the lodge in the city where I lived last week wasnt enough. So that initiation happened in a bigger city.

I guess you probably meant that it wasnt all about power, money, business and reputation :o Well, of course not. It cannot only be about that, or some would probably end up being quite depressed or ridiculed by not being amongst the "higher" standing members. Most masons are probably nice people from what I have heard. Especially on this forum. Im not even sure it is common knowledge among masons that telepathy, telekinesis and stuff like that is very possible. Does not seem like the kind of people that would believe in this kind of stuff or even seek it, unless they know the masons have access to this knowledge about it on higher degrees.

Just to underscore it again, I do not believe all masons are "evil" or bad persons. Im not even sure the 33rd degree masons actually have bad intentions, not all of them. They probably see what they do as being good for the world, and maybe it is. I havent really found out for sure yet.

adimon

15-09-2007, 08:31 PM

just want to say we're not icke believers, that already shows you're missing something in understanding all this...

Have you actually read somehting like Tales from the Time Loop?

I apologise for my poor choice of words initially.

I can't remember if I've read that one or not, they all blend a bit for me. It's the lack of reasoned argument in the writing that I have difficulty with.

Please don't be mean. :o

lifeofbrian

15-09-2007, 08:33 PM

That is what I figured. So I wrote here in Denmark... And you are saying not true because of what? You know all of their initiations? Seems to me that the real "answers" to their tests are something not talked about. The real reasons of why someone goes from one degree to another is probably not the reasons most members are told they are. As I said, the ones kissing the cross (or maybe just bowing down to it or standing before it), arent told they did anything wrong. They might even get to higher degrees, but are probably not allowed to the highest degrees. So unless you hear it from a 33rd degree mason (and you are sure he is telling the truth), then you probably wont get to know for sure.

This initiation had to take place in one of the bigger cities here. Dont know why, but the lodge in the city where I lived last week wasnt enough. So that initiation happened in a bigger city.

I guess you probably meant that it wasnt all about power, money, business and reputation :o Well, of course not. It cannot only be about that, or some would probably end up being quite depressed or ridiculed by not being amongst the "higher" standing members. Most masons are probably nice people from what I have heard. Especially on this forum. Im not even sure it is common knowledge among masons that telepathy, telekinesis and stuff like that is very possible. Does not seem like the kind of people that would believe in this kind of stuff or even seek it, unless they know the masons have access to this knowledge about it on higher degrees.

Just to underscore it again, I do not believe all masons are "evil" or bad persons. Im not even sure the 33rd degree masons actually have bad intentions, not all of them. They probably see what they do as being good for the world, and maybe it is. I havent really found out for sure yet.

If you're talking about masons I have some information.

Initiates who answer 'Jesus Christ' to the question if they follow some 'personal saviour' are not pushed further up the pyramid of power/knowledge.

It is because the religion if Christendom is recognised as a religion for 'innocent'/unknowing children.

Catholicism is for women. The Mother.

Judeaism is for men. The Father.

Christianity is for children. The Son.

All of it is spiritual poison.

john white

15-09-2007, 08:43 PM

I apologise for my poor choice of words initially.

I can't remember if I've read that one or not, they all blend a bit for me. It's the lack of reasoned argument in the writing that I have difficulty with.

Please don't be mean. :o

What do you mean when you use the words "reasoned argument"? Are you talking more about the physical aspects or the metaphysical aspects?

Certain chapters in that book are very well reasoned: chapter seven, "spinning the spin", for example (I'm not saying that none of Ickes reasoning can be question, nor that large trucks can't be driven through some of it: but reasoning can always be questioned)

Other chapters, like chapter seventeen "heart of the matter" contain extremely potent transformative advice, even if the rest of Ickes ideas are rejected: the truth in those chapters would still be true even if the entire notion of the illuminati was rejected

I'm curious to find what works and does not work for you adimon: and by exploring that, you may help to answer your own questions

lifeofbrian

15-09-2007, 08:58 PM

adimon

15-09-2007, 09:02 PM

I'm curious to find what works and does not work for you adimon: and by exploring that, you may help to answer your own questions

I thank you John for your patience and charity.

Here's one example. It's pretty typical of what I mean.

"Guy de Rothschild, of the French House, heads this bloodline dynasty
today(1). He is one of the most grotesque exponents of trauma-based
mind control, indeed the top man according to many of those who have
suffered mercilessly under his torture(2). I am always loath to use the
world evil, but if evil is the reverse of live, Guy de Rothschild is
thoroughly evil. He stands for the opposite of life. He has been
personally responsible for the torture and death of millions of children
and adults, either directly or through those he controls(3). He conducts
satanic rituals(4), as all these bloodlines have always done, and
goodness knows how many human sacrifices he has been involved in.(5)"

From "Was Hitler A Rothschild?" by David Icke.

Quite a small paragraph, and yet makes five statements without any corroboration or reference.

"The American President, Woodrow Wilson, was "advised" at Versailles by Colonel House and Bernard Baruch, both Rothschild clones and leaders of the Round Table in the United States; The British Prime Minister, Lloyd George, was "advised" by Alfred Milner, Rothschild employee and Round Table leader, and Sir Phillip Sassoon, a direct decendent of Mayer Amschel Rothschild, the
founder of the dynasty; The French leader, Georges Clemenceau, was "advised" by his Minister for the Interior, Georges Mandel, whose real name was Jeroboam Rothschild."

From "The Round Table Bilderberg Network"

This other paragraph is the kind of linkage theory that would be really useful if he revealed his sources.

adimon

15-09-2007, 09:07 PM

You are funny mate, I like your sense of humour :D

Thank you. I liked your bit about spitting on the cross. I'd have done that anyway if I was invited along!

lifeofbrian

15-09-2007, 09:09 PM

Great to read some independent thinking from you adimon. Keep up the good work. Freeing minds etc.

We live and learn. :)

binhdinh_khiwarrior

15-09-2007, 09:52 PM

hey brother

Sorry mate not trying to be patronizing, just trying not to be patronized for opening my heart to you if you know what i mean. Some of my very best friends have said to me in-response to what I have told them i have experienced-"no you didn't", "that didn't happen"..ect so i just stop opening my mouth to them about such concepts...
Well i am happy to go into some of my life, if you will read with an open mind...

Ok, shit where do i start....i was actually prepared to say nothing, because I did not not expect you to actually want to hear what I have to say...I guess we are all full of surprises....:eek: lol

well, my journey into this area begins around 13-14, although there were a somethings that did occur earlier-i'll get into it as i go along-sorry if my writing seems jumbled-i'm writing off the top of my head...as i said i was not prepare to actually have to say anything lol

well i was around 14 when I got into majik, not coin tricks or bs, but the understanding and manipulation of mental energy-and therefore physical matter (see what the bleep do we know!? physical matter= thought). i practised and learnt all i could about ancient and modern majik for a few years, and eventually got to the point where i learning about summoning (i can find out the title if u like), the book found me so to speak (i found it in unusual circumstances) well i read and read, but i could not shake the feeling that something was wrong, so i never tried it...which is good thing i guess, i will explain what I mean later.....well I stopped at that point, and jus retained my knowledge. I have been practicing martial arts since I was 6/7, i began with Taekwondo, Judo, Hapkido, and Taijutsu-and finally found "home" with Vo Binh Dinh- I got a black belt in 2002 (the first white-non viet to get that level under my teacher who had been teaching for 20 years in Australia at the point). If you find a martal arts good teacher , and you are a trustworthy person they will endow you will knowledge that most people just cannot conceptualize. Literally the "power" of life and death-and i am not referring to physical technique, rather a knowledge of physical energy development and retention (Qi, the practice is know as Qi Gong). You could think of Majik as Yin and Qi as Yang. Everything is Yin/Yang-thought energy and physical energy combined to make "reality"...
When i was a kid i was abused by different people, while in state care-actually it was strange because social workers form the government took me out of my mother's care (because of child abuse allegations made against her) and placed me in "protected" care in foster homes and places like orphanages where I was actually abused. lol kinda funny really.....it was even funnier that after my mum was found innocent by a court (because it was found that I had been taught stranger danger/you have the right to say no! from a very early age) the social workers spread rumors around the commission flats where we stayed-and I was gang bashed because of those rumors at the age of about 8. I believe it is rare that my mum actually won, how many people do you of that have been acquitted of child molestation charges leveled by government agents? Nobody who lived in the apartment could have know that my mum was accused-the people who bashed me said that my my molests kids-they did not say that I was the one molested...so somehow only a little piece of info got out into the general public, just enough to get me and my mum into trouble. When i was bashed, one of the parents of the kids was watching it happen, talking to a friend....they didn't help....

Luke, I am YOUR FATHER....the saga continues, lol-thought that bit was a bit heavy and needed some comic relief...

well, i have suffered from sleep paralysis since I was a kid. One oft the worst times was when I was about 10, i was in my living room sleeping on the couch. I suddenly woke up and couldn't move, i was quite distressed, i could see but couldn't move...then as i tired to wake my body up I suddenly passed out again, and then woke up again and couldn't move...this cycle repeated many times-maybe 8, 9, 10? times...give or take. The first times were scary, because each time i tired to wake up i would just pass out and have to start again (there was only a few moments of consciousness) then i thought "fuck it" and decided to treat it like an experiment (i was very into science when i was a kid-still now guess i just a big kid lol) and looked around the room to try and see how and why things looked different ect ect..well that triggered something because i heard a voice call my name, it was so clear, it could have been behind me....well i shat myself mate, i'll tell ya, and that actually gave me enough energy through fear to allow me to move, but for some reason I was exhausted and it took every bit of my energy just to get to my bed (i have never had this since mind you), and promptly passed out...it didn't reoccur. There have been i\times like this, but only two periods that were really bad, the second period was when i moved back into a house that i had lived in about 1 year ealier....
The very night i began to sleep in my old room again, i suffered sleep paralysis. But this was unlike anything I have ever encountered. I would wake up and actually feel someone in my room, holding me down. This happened for around 2 months, every night, and it also happened to my friend (who is a very main stream, scientifically thinking person). He had resorted to sleeping in the lounge, but he wouldn't tell me why until i explained why I was now sleeping there too, on the other coach, (after about 1 and a half months) it didn't seem to happen in there-don't ask me why...anyway the worst of that experience was where my friends father came for a 2 week visit from Japan (the same guy that was sleeping in lounge), he is a physical therapist-and quite well off-on a side not he kept wondering why we didn't have a plasma tv...lol, i don't think he understood how much they cost..lol-well I went to sleep one night, and I had this dream that-well i'v never had one like it or since- it was crystal clear almost like lucid dreaming but i wasn't aware or in control, anyway i was surrounded by the black faced little dudes, with deep red eyes-they looked like they were wearing cloaks, they didn't say anything-just looked at me, and well fuck i felt fear, i reckon i was awake my balls would have shrunk....
I started to tell my other roommates (there were 4 others) about what was happening-well the last person i expected to understand spoke up- my mate's dad from Japan had had he same dream the same night as me...I asked him about the black "people" with red eyes-and he gave this expression that I will never forget! He had never had such an experience....
There was one other time that was quite freaky to me, this was before i moved out and moved back in again (when I first moved there), I was playing final fantasy 8 on the ps and it was around 3am, i began to hear noises outside of the house, and thought it was a cat or something...i started to have this feeling, just a general bad feeling...but i thought probably just being paranoid...anyway the feeling didn't go away and i was in the Tv room (basically a dining room-but we converted it to become the TV room so we could watch tv ect late at night and not bother anyone) and I heard the smoke alarm go off, and i though "ah someone's just cooking" which was usual for us coz we were all students with "different" (lol) sleeping patterns and i thought somebody was cooking...usually the person cooking would fan away the smoke and open the doors so he wouldn't wake the whole house up...the alarm kept ringing... and ringing and i was like "wtf"..so i went out into the kitchen to see what was happening..the kitchen was empty, the smoke alarm wasn't ringing from there, it was ringing from the bedrooms-and i panicked! I thought the house was on fire, I ran to the corridor and looked up at the smoke alarm and it was indeed ringing, i began to try to fan the smoke away out of reflex-coz i hate that noise! drives me nuts!-and as i fanned i noticed that there was no smoke, at all, and I was fanning air, then the ringing suddenly stopped....man, fear and confusion do not even come close to what I felt....I left the corridor and returned to my game....i couldn't shake the feelings of what had happened and the original bad feeling had returned with a vengeance, like "hey bitch, you wanna try and ignore me now! take that!" i tried to rationalize what was happening, but not very well because i had never had that kind of experience. Anyway the feeling got more and more intense and i decided to give up and go to bed-coz it was scary everyone else was asleep....well i turned off ever light, i was so scared (and I was 21/2 at he time!) that I didn't want to be in the dark by myself, so i turned of the lights in such a way that i wouldn't be in darkness for more that a second. I turned off all the kitchen lights and got to the edge of the corridor, and just stopped...it was like hitting a wall of "feeling" like "hey bitch remember me?" i stopped and looked up at the alarm it and thought.."oh shit ur gonna go off again aren't you".... i made one step into the corridor (which put me right under it) and next to the light switch....it went off again...and my God...I have never been more terrified..i ran into my room and under my blanket like a little kid...the ringing stopped about 3 or 4 second after i went into my room..... I'v never had the same experience again...

whew...i wish u and asked me to start speaking, once i start i can't fuckin stop :-)
In 2005 i found Icke's work on the net, looking for UFO stuff-i was always into it, but had never seen one. I honestly did not expect what he wrote, coz it said ufo, and I was "wtf!? this is all conspiracy stuff-he sounds a bit crazy(actualy alot crazy..lol..even after the shit I'v seen and know to be true)-and wtf's up with this reptilian shit!?" anyway i left his work, thinking he had nothing to offer....
In 2006 i was at my place with a bunch of friends (7 or 8) people and one of the girls said hey! look at that star! and we all looked (my house is on a hill overlooking much of my area) the star was in a really weird spot and I couldn't work out how I could be looking at it like that, it was way too low-separated from the other stars in the sky by miles (actually even more than i realized at first), we all just starred at it, and then one of my mates goes..it's not a "dot" of light it's a "triangle"...and I was like "wtf!?" coz i couldn't see that, all I saw was a big dot above the buildings and houses just hanging there. Then my other mate pulls out his new camera phone (gotta love technology these days!) and i was like "mad cunt!!" he filed it for a while and he said something like "yeah, it is a triangle" and we looked at the screen as he filmed. The camera (even thought it was at night) the camera picked it up really well, and i spun out when i saw what i saw...a triangular shape-marked out by three lights-one at each corner and then one blob in the middle....it was a perfect triangle-i'v never seen anything like it or since except on UFO sites-but the pics I have found have a red blog in the middle of the structure, what Isaw where white lights-exactly like stars...anyway were were all like "whoa..." and the girls that originally saw it said "stop looking at it, it will spin you out too much" but i couldn't take my eyes away but eventually it just creeped me out, so i went inside...anyway about half an hour later I thought, shit i wonder if it's still there...and checked out the front of my house (all you had to do to see that area was take 1 or 2 steps out side my door,and turn to ur right-u can see most of the neighborhood) it was gone....just, not there.... oh and it give u an understanding of how it was positioned ^ like this the top light was up and the two other's below so it was like a pyramid in the air-so to speak- i just thought i would mention that so u understand that it wasn't some kind of stealth bomber-they don't sit still upright in the air. Well that was an incredible experience, never seen shit like that again...i hope I never do either honestly..makes life more complicated than necessary if u get my drift-although i am so greatful I was not the only one who saw it! lol

Now for the craziest parts (and I do mean that even compared to what I have said previously-and please believe me If it hadn't happened to me-with my mum sitting next to me i wouldn't believe it either)

at the end of 2006 i downloaded a video from ARES p2p, entitled "phantasm", I used to love those kinds of ghost videos and such, great fun! Any the video shows some kids (teenagers) from a European country (maybe Spain), they are in a grave yard at night, and filming sometthing in the dark, you can't see anything at first but then someone comes into focus, it is an old man or woman in rags, only about 3 or 4 ft high, just sorta walking and standing, when I saw it I was like what a funny ghost-they usually don't look like that i though sort of laughing-because I thought it was a bad fake...that was until it looked at the camera, and you could see it's eyes- like yellow brake lights (iv never seen anything like it) and then all the kids start yelling and screaming-like Blair Witch Project lol...but the unfunny thing about it was in my arrogance (and i can be highly arrogant especially in the face of spiritual shit) I watched it again..and paused at the point where it looks at the camera, and i looked deep into it's eyes, and i got the bad feeling...i said it out loud to my mum "some thing's wrong!" and it's difficult to describe to you what actually happened-the sensation that I felt because I think yo have never experienced QI-or have you?? Well i felt a foreign Qi come into my body through my eyes from it's eyes and then go straight to me core, especially into my balls (apparently sperm has the strongest/most nourishing energy in the body), well if freaked out man, i though the smoke alarm thing was scary this nearly broke me, actually it was lucky i realized a primitive method of removal. I had watched a steven segal movie (yes i know...im referencing steven segal..lol!) the Glimmerman (i think) a few weeks previous to this, anyway in it he was saying to someone that he had had to learn how to heal before learning how to kill, it shows him meditating and using eastern traditional medicine-acupuncture (for internal problems) and incense burning on the needles to clear the aura-which I thought was kinda cool coz i had never seen them together like that! When this thing went inside me, my mind raced, and i tried to get it out using my own stored qi, it's did nothing! I tired the majik symbols and knowldege that I had learned....and it did nothing (i used mostly wiccan symols-like the right way up pentacle)-and that was disheartening- i was like why isn't it wokring...??? i think it just absorbed it...then I got a flash of that scene of him meditating and i was like "aww yeah! smudging!!" i remembered a book on majik of the ancient world (or something along that line) that I had a section on smudging, using incense or candle to clear the aura...and I thought well...it couldn't do any harm...so i found a candle and passed the flame over an "infected" area, the foreign Qi vanished/was abolished through this,and it repeated this process over my WHOLE body-and i do mean everywhere....it took over an hour..but it was gone after that.....I searched the net for info about possession and the like and talked to a couple of people on the net - but nobody had experienced that..so it wasn't much help, then I remembered Icke and went back and actually read it (like I read it b4-but once I thought he was nuts i stopped listening), and i read it well...it detailed alot of the shit that had happened to me...you see, until then my understanding was that my majik would work-it had b4 (not like hey presto *poof* kinda thing), and i tried to understand why it had failed....even my qi- it SHOULD have worked...it was designed to protect you from evil, ya know..? and then i got to the bits about the mystery schools and the the 'new age' movement and such that I had gotten into, and it said that they were set up by the iluminatti..and i was like why the hell would they try and give people knowledge of something that grants so much personal freedom...and then i thought my fuckin majik that i held so dear failed and i nearly got fucked up! WTF ya know...? Icke has said that madam blavasky (i think that's the spelling) set up the entire spiritualist movement in the late 1800's which led to the new age movement of the 70's/80's/90's (newage = new world order) and then it hit me....why didn't it my majik work? why would they give people something that would grant them personal power? Because they created it, it was designed to fail, to get people close enough to that area (communicating with "the spirit's", and oyija boards ect ect...) so that they could root out all those with talent or interest in that area at the critical moment and make them "insane"/ control them or have them on board...that is why i had the bad feelings all those years ago when i stopped learning and progressing in majik at the point where i would be summoning spirits....it wsn't that it was bullshit, the protection from those forces was...i would have been possessed at the age of 16....and be a raving nut case....if you don;t already think me so, lol

well mate i hope you enjoyed reading that, coz my hand hurts! lol, this is not my whole story, just the bits you need to understand why I am here...are you writing a paper on mental disorders for university or something? I'm not having a go at you I'm asking that seriously, because if you want a better story or rather more detailed i am writing a book, it's gonna take a little while, but i could let you know when i am finished if you would like to read it. I you are doing a thesis (especially in psychology-it would probably be perfect-well at least portions would be). I don't mind if my work is criticized by the the modern day intelligentsia, simply because there are things that i can do which most other's cannot-and i can demonstrate this, and I don't mean channel some dude that's been dead for a hundred years to speak to you through me, I can heal and i can hurt (I'm better at he latter) without touching a person.... (limelady, ashyr -not sure if he' still here but i think so-and astraltraveler can corroborate this)The only reason I mentioned about the whole university thing is because of the way you came here and asked questions-(not the fact you asked them, but the way you asked them) made me think so. Sorry also if is seemed presumptuous about you at first- it didn't read the other responses- i just read ur questions and tried to answer the best i could :-)

oh and just about Icke, and not referencing other's work. Who else is he supposed to reference..? Nobody has done the level of examination he has. University is designed as an indoctrination tool- you cannot reference out side the current paradigm- barring earlier paradigms. Work that can be referenced must go before a board of peers and be scrutinized at every level before production. How do you think a psychologist or doctor would say if I wrote out an essay on 'Why the physical an mental health industries are largely ineffective at treating disease that has been treatable for thousands of years"? It would never see the light of day or even a large academic body, and even if it did, it would be discarded as non-sense. "oh my this guys is fuckin nuts!" kinda of attitude that has been prevalent within academe since the times when they opposed hand-washing among doctors...they thought he was nuts too, and the truth ruined his career. Many people's lives would have been saved if they had even bother to TRY what he had suggested, instead they said "nope!" "ur wrong, we're right" and many died in between this period and the period where it was in fact discovered that he was right! Many people suffered and died needlessly because they were so arrogant as to just ignore this information...and don't get me started on situations like the titanic...

And also the reason many (probably) didn't respond to your questions as you had wanted was because they detected your obvious skepticism on this topic, many of us have to deal with this everyday, and we don't really need it, hey, ya know what I mean, what if i rocked up to your doorstep everyday and asked to to join the Jehovah's Witness, ya know you would stop wanting to even engage anyone you do not know that came to the door....the only reason i have bothered to actually spend the last 3.5 hours remembering and writing all this is because you said you would actually like to hear my story and I felt that you may actually listen....Im not trying to convert you or anyone to believe anything, you are welcome to your belief, all i ask is that i am granted the same respect from others...

whew...now my hand is REALLY sore...i hope this is in depth enough for you :-) and of course i hope you will take what i have said with an open heart my brother, and and if you don't i hope you at least enjoyed my story..:D it is the truth...at least my truth, there are many in life and truth means different things to different people. If you look into your own heart I think you will see that what I am saying has come from my heart, and my experience...

i have had an "interesting life", and that is the same sentiment as an interesting Chinese curse that runs along the lines of "may you be born in interesting times' lol

Ok mate, take it easy he u enjoy the read ;-)

kblood

15-09-2007, 09:58 PM

I apologise for my poor choice of words initially.

I can't remember if I've read that one or not, they all blend a bit for me. It's the lack of reasoned argument in the writing that I have difficulty with.

Please don't be mean. :o

Icke's books surely would be too long if he explained everything and reasoned his arguments every time. If he did, I surely would not have read as much as I have from him. The thing is, I havent really read much yet, I have not even read all of "The Biggest Secret" yet. But so much of what I have read in "The Biggest Secret" is things I have concluded myself as well. He actually even got better arguments for it than me.

I have to agree about it blending. That is why I read "the biggest secret" very slowly. Especially compared to most other things I read. For every chapter I check up on what he writes, or maybe I just read something about it before reading the chapter fully. The things Icke writes, really makes it all fit together alot better than the stories we get from history books. The history books really seem to be lacking alot of the real history about historical events. Seems to me that only part of the "what happened during some event" and the most basic of "why the event happened at all".

Some events like 9/11 I knew some of what happened before hand, and I did not like to watch the news about it. Then later I find that the story in the media doesnt really fit with what I knew about it. Guess I should have payed more attention to it. Like that 4th "plane" hitting Pentagon? Im still not sure how they ever backed up that story. Its like the royal family here in Denmark. They had twins... I didnt think much about it to begin with, but the first borns being male twins is kind of a problem I guess... so now they dont have twins anymore. I was like wtf?, one day I was watching TV (does happen on rare occasions), and I see that they claim to only have one son. I hope they just hid that twin brother out of the way, and not something else. They even showed the twins on TV the first few days. I am not sure when it stopped being twins. Still makes me feel a bit creeped.

I just know that the media is not to be fully trusted. Usually I really cant handle watching all the news, since so much of it is just lies anyway.

starchildtesla

15-09-2007, 10:09 PM

The evidence for illuminati are hiddden in plain view.
Its just a matter of linking the dots or seeing the big picture.Seemingly bizaare things then link in perfectly ,anyone who looks at the big picture come to the same conclusion New World Order.

kblood

15-09-2007, 10:12 PM

Thanks for sharing Binhdinh :)

john white

15-09-2007, 10:13 PM

I thank you John for your patience and charity.

Here's one example. It's pretty typical of what I mean.

"Guy de Rothschild, of the French House, heads this bloodline dynasty
today(1). He is one of the most grotesque exponents of trauma-based
mind control, indeed the top man according to many of those who have
suffered mercilessly under his torture(2). I am always loath to use the
world evil, but if evil is the reverse of live, Guy de Rothschild is
thoroughly evil. He stands for the opposite of life. He has been
personally responsible for the torture and death of millions of children
and adults, either directly or through those he controls(3). He conducts
satanic rituals(4), as all these bloodlines have always done, and
goodness knows how many human sacrifices he has been involved in.(5)"

From "Was Hitler A Rothschild?" by David Icke.

Quite a small paragraph, and yet makes five statements without any corroboration or reference.

"The American President, Woodrow Wilson, was "advised" at Versailles by Colonel House and Bernard Baruch, both Rothschild clones and leaders of the Round Table in the United States; The British Prime Minister, Lloyd George, was "advised" by Alfred Milner, Rothschild employee and Round Table leader, and Sir Phillip Sassoon, a direct decendent of Mayer Amschel Rothschild, the
founder of the dynasty; The French leader, Georges Clemenceau, was "advised" by his Minister for the Interior, Georges Mandel, whose real name was Jeroboam Rothschild."

From "The Round Table Bilderberg Network"

This other paragraph is the kind of linkage theory that would be really useful if he revealed his sources.

True Ickes work is often emotive and often mixed with opinion

Sources arnt hard to find though

Woodrow Wilson Bernard Baruch - Google Search

guy de rothschild satanist - Google Search

The credibility of those sources is a different question: but its one that only further enquirey can satisfy

Often Ickes work is very speculative, and in fact, its clear that not everything Icke suggests as possible can be true: on occasion he has referenced, for example, hollow earth theory, on the basis of saying "this is the theory, you deserve to hear it, what you do with it is up to you

Personally I see Icke mostly as a "Guerilla ontologist" in the Tim Leary/RAW tradition, in that getting ones head round his material stretches the mind, ones sense of credulity, sense of reality and so on: its not so much whether he is right or not (though I hold that he often is right in important ways, and I dont count exactly who is a stanist or who advised who to be desperately important) but the exercise of the mind, and years later (often) it seems that things that seemed impossible suddenly ring true, and much mental liberation occurs as a result

This is born out in some of Ickes own statements re his givng talks, where he says that what he says is only an excuse to occupy the conscious mind and the real "work" is the energy he is transmiting (regarding solutions)

seanx

15-09-2007, 10:32 PM

adimon,

I'm just still wondering why you are promoting james
randi on all your posts.

That shows a completely fixed mind, not surely the
open mind you are claiming. Or am I missing
something?

binhdinh_khiwarrior

15-09-2007, 10:43 PM

Thanks man, glad u liked it ;-)

omshanti

15-09-2007, 10:52 PM

hello. some really interesting posts.
icke makes it pretty clear that he is not writing to CONVINCE or prove anything to anyone. do your own research and trust your heart for what resonates. and face your fears and honestly examine what makes you feel afraid (thus, there may be submerged truths that need to come to light, for further freeing and awakening consciousness...)
yes, trust your heart, we are not used to doing that are we?....
we have been trained to believe in the mind/the intellect to reason what is "truth". Footnotes ad nauseum does not necessartly guarantee authority on a view, theory or statement.
anyway, i like what the fox says to the little prince:
"it is only through the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye".

gorana

15-09-2007, 11:00 PM

*snip*
"They do want to microchip the population, including ultimately brain chips, but that is not the end of it. They want to dramatically reduce the global population, and they want to bring in a new kind of human, purpose-designed to serve the state. The genetic research we hear about on the news is low level stuff. They are decades ahead of that at the top - that's why it's called re-search."

OK, so some animals and maybe even some humans have been microchipped, but as a global policy, how would they go about putting chips in everybody without it being noticed and/or without people protesting it PUBLICY i.e. not on this forum.
*snip*

Hm, do you have kids? I do.

Didn't you notice that at least one kid disapears every week and that media place that topic on TV? Well, TV push it and push it, and i already start to notice that more and more parents are scared about their kids. "I have to bring my son to school and pick him when he is done!" etc.

These "enlightened" guys don't care if you are chipped or only your kids, they just care that they can start it without any large noise. And... they have time... You will die, i will too, but their idea will continue to live :) There won'T be Henry Kissinger, but Kissinger Jr. or Bush Jr. or whoever will fall into that position, and they will rule us... our kids.

G.

adimon

15-09-2007, 11:12 PM

adimon,

I'm just still wondering why you are promoting james
randi on all your posts.

That shows a completely fixed mind, not surely the
open mind you are claiming. Or am I missing
something?

I'm not promoting James Randi. He has an open mind just as I have. Just because we haven't subscribed to anything yet doesn't make us fixed at all. As I said earlier in the thread, some spooky shit down with a female friend of mine that I'm gonna have to look into, and I'm here as a way of investigating stuff.

However, his challenge makes an important point. It's not my motto or anything. Over the coming weeks, expect to see all kinds of interesting links find their way into my signature.

James Randi is a lot older than me. I'm not sure but I'm probably more open-minded just compared to him.

I am promoting Nike though. I wish more people would run and their shoes are just great.

seanx

15-09-2007, 11:37 PM

I'm not promoting James Randi. He has an open mind just as I have

First time I've heard the word james randi and an open mind
in the same sentence.

I think you'e taking the piss out of us.

Honestly.

Mr. Randi is the Elite's front man used always to debunk any
idea that challenges modern 3-D science.

By promoting him on every post you write - is sending out
quite a different message than your posts are trying to suggest.

For a man who's very concerned, rightly with reseach - maybe
you should start your lessons by researching Mr Randi's history
and who funds him - and why?

it's like me going on to a christian forum - asking them to help me
understand their beliefs - and at the end of every post -promoting
the books of Richard Dawkins.

john white

15-09-2007, 11:50 PM

adimon

15-09-2007, 11:58 PM

I think you'e taking the piss out of us.

Not at all. You especially are a very volatile poster, you've made that quite clear to me. I have been completely open and mostly polite with everyone who has been so kind as to respond to my post. If you don't want to communicate with me that's your prerogative. But I hope you do.

For a man who's very concerned, rightly with reseach - maybe
you should start your lessons by researching Mr Randi's history
and who funds him - and why?

First of all - have you met James Randi?

Secondly, if you want to believe something about him you are perfectly entitled to, but remember I am not responding to you saying "You're taking the piss out of me" if someone tells me that an election I worked on was fixed when they weren't there.

I thought this wasn't a fan club. So why should it be a defamation club for James Randi? Slag him off if you like, but don't take it out on me. After your first post I was considering removing the link as a compromise. Why should I do that now when you're acting with total intolerance?! I only put it on there so that people would at least read about the challenge if they haven't already.

But I return to the first question - have you met him?

it's like me going on to a christian forum - asking them to help me
understand their beliefs - and at the end of every post -promoting
the books of Richard Dawkins.

And what would be wrong with that? Most Christians I've spoken to wouldn't ostracise me for name-dropping a magician or reading a book. Some of my friends are Christians, Jews, Muslims and other religions. I don't subscribe to any of it, and largely, religion is kept out of the conversation mutually.

Occasionally I discuss the Middle East with a Muslim friend, because we have a shared interest in Iran.

Do I not meet your Quotient or something pal?

Unbelievable.

seanx

16-09-2007, 12:24 AM

No, you're being slightly disengenious here.

As I said, if I want on a christian web site - saying I'm really
open-minded and would like to find out about Jesus - promoting
a link to Richard Dawkins - the most militant anti religious person
around - would be a bit of an insult - don't you think?

Or, to be fair - it would make people wary of me.

A richard dawkins fan wanting to be enlightened into the
Christian way.

Isn't that fair comment.

Likewise, taking into account the ideas we discuss here -
and promoting mr. randi who believes Icke and all his ideas are
totally mad- - well, it's a strange decision.

As for Mr RANDI challenge - well, you know as well as I do, it's
a complete sham.

It's designed only to generate enormous publicity for himself
and his cult of debunkers.

But what people don't realize is that Randi’s offer sets himself
up as judge and jury.

A true prize would have an independent panel of neutral judges –
and these judges, not Randi, should be in control of prize money, to
determine if and when it shall be released.

There are no such, qualified , independent judges - just Randi and
his band of debunkers.

And - no surprise - no-one ever convinces him.

john white

16-09-2007, 12:27 AM

First of all - have you met James Randi?

Secondly, if you want to believe something about him you are perfectly entitled to, but remember I am not responding to you saying "You're taking the piss out of me" if someone tells me that an election I worked on was fixed when they weren't there.

I thought this wasn't a fan club. So why should it be a defamation club for James Randi? Slag him off if you like, but don't take it out on me. After your first post I was considering removing the link as a compromise. Why should I do that now when you're acting with total intolerance?! I only put it on there so that people would at least read about the challenge if they haven't already.

But I return to the first question - have you met him?

FWIW:

I havnt met Randi: but I'm not too impressed with him

Firstly becuase he effectively teaches/advocates a forum of linguistic manipulation that seems designed to steer conversation and "defeat" argument that challenges a consensus world view, in such a way that the adherants to that method are not consiously aware of it themselves... very ego placation based stuff

Secondly becuase hes something of a flim flam artist: his "million dollar challenge", for example, is catagorically unwinnable: like a card shark, he plays with a fixed deck

Not a lot of motive to trust (the motivation of) a guy who by definition is a spinner of illusions: he does make the word "gatekeeper" spring to mind

seanx

16-09-2007, 12:38 AM

Also, a lot of people don't know that most of Mr randi's work is
preventing and disrupting the work of excellent, open-minded
reserachers into all aspects of parapsychology

For example, here is what happened to Jeffrey Mishlove, who
is a doctor of parapsychology.

He writes about Mr, Randi:

But, I believe Randi’s offer is a scam. And, I will say why I believe it to be so, in very simple terms.

First of all, there is no doubt that Randi has used his alleged offer – over a period of many years – to generate enormous publicity for himself and his cult of debunkers.

Second of all, Randi’s offer sets himself up as judge and jury. And, of course, he has not the slightest interest in losing the very game that he has created. A true prize would have an independent panel of neutral judges – and these judges, not Randi, should be in control of prize money, to determine if and when it shall be released.

So while James Randi and his cult go around accusing the general public of falling for a wide variety of psychic scams, they themselves are engaged in perpetrating a scam of an equal and opposite sort. The final irony is that they are the very near a mirror image of the phonies they try to expose.

As long as they set about exposing the true frauds and schemes in the psychic world, they do the world a service. And, I applaud Randi and his ilk for that. But, in their fanatical zeal, they sometimes endeavor to put a stop to legitimate scientific and academic inquiry. (I know this, first hand, as they attempted to interfere with my own doctoral degree program in parapsychology at the University of California, Berkeley.) When they go this far, as they did with Brenda Dunne, they simply reveal the philosophical and moral emptiness of their position.

adimon

16-09-2007, 12:38 AM

No, you're being slightly disengenious here.

I'm very sorry that you feel this way but as far as I'm concerned James Randi is not the most militant anti anything person.

I see you first said it would be an insult, and then changed it to make people wary. Wary is fine. I can live with that. I've already assured people I'm not a baddie. Some of my views remain in the mainstream, others are quite extreme. But as far as I know there is no 'Icke' quotient you have to pass to be able to comment here.

From the start of this thread you have been out to get me whereas others have engaged in debate with me.

I never said I wanted to be enlightened into the Icke way. I could have done that when I met David in person if I felt that way.

Isn't that fair comment.

Of course - it's a free country. But I disagree with you, and unlike some others whom you may have accuse of being a troll and chased off because they didn't agree with you wholesale, I will defend myself and my right to be here and engage in discussion.

Likewise, taking into account the ideas we discuss here -
and promoting mr. randi who believes Icke and all his ideas are
totally mad- - well, it's a strange decision.

I've already said I'm not promoting anything - except Nike trainers.

I've also already said that if this discussion were happening in person, I'm CERTAIN you wouldn't worry one iota.

As for Mr RANDI challenge - well, you know as well as I do, it's
a complete sham.

I don't believe that is. I'm sorry but I disagree with you. I'm not saying there isn't anything supernatural, just no-one has even accepted the challenge.

But what people don't realize is that Randi’s offer sets himself
up as judge and jury.

Not true either. The 'rules' are to be agreed on by both the challenger, and Randi. Many mystical people, mediums/hypnotists etc have accepted the challenge on live television and then not fulfilled their claim.

Not a single person has ever taken the challenge.

I'm not saying anything greater than that. I don't know whether anything supernatural does exist.

What is the root of your problem with me? Why is there this secret handshake thing with you sean?

adimon

16-09-2007, 12:43 AM

I notice, seanx, that your previous quote paraphrased huge chunks of the Doctor of Parapsychology's words. No problem with that as such, but don't play the righteous code with me matey.

I apologise that my previous post came out all under your quote and therefore in italics, but dude you have pissed me off!

One last thing to say on the subject (of Randi) - your Doctor's text doesn't actual make any logical sense at all in my opinion.

If you say "I think this because..." you shouldn't include the thing you think in the explanation.

It reminds me of a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry's doctor tells him he can't use the phone in the treatment room 'because it's the rules'

What's the problem here? :(

adimon

16-09-2007, 12:46 AM

I havnt met Randi: but I'm not too impressed with him

Anyway, John, I was never asking anyone to be impressed with him. I don't really care that much, but I don't think he deserves to be described as evil, nor I for posting a link to a website.

I've replaced the link now anyway.

Jesus.

seanx

16-09-2007, 12:49 AM

But what people don't realize is that Randi’s offer sets himself
up as judge and jury.

Not true either. The 'rules' are to be agreed on by both the challenger, and Randi. Many mystical people, mediums/hypnotists etc have accepted the challenge on live television and then not fulfilled their claim.

Can you tell me, then who the qualified independent judges are,
who will decide?

You seem quite emotional.

Read my posts- I actually went out of my way to help you -
but then I saw you link promoting Mr Randi who thinks dave
icke is mad -and sorry- but can you honestly blame people
if they are slightly weary of you when one of your heros
is a bloke who considers Icke crazy ?

lifeofbrian

16-09-2007, 12:49 AM

adimon

16-09-2007, 01:04 AM

Can you tell me, then who the qualified independent judges are,
who will decide?

I'm not going to go over this again. He's not my hero. You're mistaken.

You seem quite emotional.

Yes you've wound me up. Congratulations.

Read my posts- I actually went out of my way to help you

Please don't bother in future. You're not prepared to be serious.

You ignore every question I ask you.

adimon

16-09-2007, 01:10 AM

adimon, develop some faith in people! (LOL) Once they let go of their fear of you, they can again think straight.

It's what saying 'I'm an atheist' does to people. They think you're the devil, you see. Programme kicking in.

:)

It's not fear it's ignorance. Shall we just get this over with so any bigoted people that want to defame my character can get over with, and anyone who wants to share with me and learn can do so...

Things Some People Here Won't Like

1. I've served in the Armed Forces.
2. I've worked in Parliament.
3. I've worked in The UK Civil Service.
4. I've worked as a door-to-door saleman.
5. I pick my nose.

I guess all of things mean I'm a spy and I can't be trusted, right?

Well done, seanx. Excellent, reasoned argument. Why don't you go and disprove gravity.

john white

16-09-2007, 01:16 AM

Anyway, John, I was never asking anyone to be impressed with him. I don't really care that much, but I don't think he deserves to be described as evil, nor I for posting a link to a website.

I've replaced the link now anyway.

Jesus.

Hey man

Just FWIW: you decide is fine by me

lifeofbrian

16-09-2007, 01:23 AM

It's not fear it's ignorance. Shall we just get this over with so any bigoted people that want to defame my character can get over with, and anyone who wants to share with me and learn can do so...

Things Some People Here Won't Like

1. I've served in the Armed Forces.
2. I've worked in Parliament.
3. I've worked in The UK Civil Service.
4. I've worked as a door-to-door saleman.
5. I pick my nose.

I guess all of things mean I'm a spy and I can't be trusted, right?

Well done, seanx. Excellent, reasoned argument. Why don't you go and disprove gravity.

Same difference; fear of the unknown.

Have to say though: Oh my gawd, you are not Beelzebub?

Can relate to you on 1) and 5) - the rest is unknown territory. Feel free to share anytime.

Personally I reckon Nick Cave is Beelzebub (he seems to know too much, hmmm...):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DrodaLzfi5s&mode=related&search=

adimon

16-09-2007, 01:33 AM

Have to say though: Oh my gawd, you are not Beelzebub?

Can relate to you on 1) and 5) - the rest is unknown territory. Please share.

Personally I reckon Nick Cave is Beelzebub (he seems to know too much, hmmm...):

Happy to fill you in on the finer details. Drop me a line by email.

The Nick Cave song was ok. The video was quite unnerving.

Thanks again.

:cool:

gullick

16-09-2007, 02:08 AM

So tell me, how do you know what Skull and Bones is? DO they have whistleblowers?

Here is one of many reasons skull and bones does exist, and that its a secret society. A secret society called 'skull and bones' doesn't sound to ethical.
Youtube vid

pierre_jean

16-09-2007, 02:09 AM

I am promoting Nike though. I wish more people would run and their shoes are just great.

The blood of the rebellion runs into your veins, it would seem :D

adimon

16-09-2007, 02:35 AM

The blood of the rebellion runs into your veins, it would seem :D

Not sure what you mean, Pierre. Which rebellion is that? I run because it makes me really healthy. I changed my life when I got up off that sofa a few year back.

adimon

16-09-2007, 02:49 AM

Here is one of many reasons skull and bones does exist, and that its a secret society. A secret society called 'skull and bones' doesn't sound to ethical.
Youtube vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pUogbYkoHc)

Could it not just be though, that the US has, like other countries, some very elite universities such as Yale, where rich parents pay for their rich children to go, and that the 'fraternity' of choice for a small minority is this Costume Box Amateur Dramatics stuff?

It's all a bit square isn't it? But I don't think it's on the same scale as the IMF is it?

woghd

16-09-2007, 05:14 AM

Ted Bundy was a member of a shapeshifting reptilian bloodline that has economic clout etc. If so, why was Bundy fried in an electric chair?

Good question. Aileen Wuornos was a Reptilian as well, and she got lethal injection. Maybe they let us have one once in a while as part of an agreement, or perhaps as an example to others. They are cold-blooded.

It's difficult to say why this happens without more evidence.

Archangel

adimon

16-09-2007, 05:47 AM

Good question. Aileen Wuornos was a Reptilian as well, and she got lethal injection. Maybe they let us have one once in a while as part of an agreement, or perhaps as an example to others. They are cold-blooded.

It's difficult to say why this happens without more evidence.

Archangel

In my opinion you shouldn't make such statements without any evidence?

Why do you think Aileen Wuornos is a reptile?

omshanti

16-09-2007, 05:55 AM

i agree that this is an outrageous allegation... aileen wuornos a reptilian..?
a childhood that is full of violence, neglect and brutality can bring forth a very damaged adult...why do you make these claims? sounds like black and white speak to me. we are shades of grey dude...vibrating at varying degrees of frequency and consciousness...

adimon

16-09-2007, 06:00 AM

pollock

16-09-2007, 06:18 AM

I'm not vibrating at all.

I noticed:D!

F

adimon

16-09-2007, 06:21 AM

I noticed:D!

F

How was that then? Do you normally see people's vibrations across the Internet?

pollock

16-09-2007, 06:33 AM

No, I feel peoples intents through the manner in which they write their statements!

F

adimon

16-09-2007, 06:36 AM

No, I feel peoples intents through the manner in which they write their statements!

F

Of course! As since I believe in certain things, and not in others, I'm not vibrating. Sorry I forgot about that. :p

Nevermind the fact I made a joke about a dildo eh! :D

megafish33

16-09-2007, 06:40 AM

adimon,

There isn't any proof of reptilians. If they exist you'd have to see one with your own eyes.

Guns, Germs, and Steel, by Jared Diamond offers another viewpoint as to why things are the way they are.

pollock

16-09-2007, 08:01 AM

Of course! As since I believe in certain things, and not in others, I'm not vibrating. Sorry I forgot about that. :p

Nevermind the fact I made a joke about a dildo eh! :D

Hmm, and never mind my smiley face!!:D
I have no idea if you are vibrating or how, it just does not seem you are vibrating at the same level as most in here!! Thats all dear, not meant as an insult!

Peace and vibrations
F

woghd

16-09-2007, 09:25 AM

celtic isis

16-09-2007, 12:15 PM

I'm not vibrating at all. An ex-girlfriend tried that on me but I made it clear no was the answer. :D

lol at least you have a SOH :D

celtic isis

16-09-2007, 12:16 PM

The blood of the rebellion runs into your veins, it would seem :D

je t'aime!!!! :D

celtic isis

16-09-2007, 12:23 PM

Isis, what I meant to say was you don't sound bitchy. You're obviously very passionate about your beliefs. :)

they're not my "beliefs" to believe in anything is to be caught...but the whole NWO agenda is just the way it is, that's it, it's not a belief system.

john white

16-09-2007, 12:23 PM

I'm not vibrating at all. An ex-girlfriend tried that on me but I made it clear no was the answer.

lol at least you have a SOH

Sounds like you missed out to me. Try everything once!

jinjo5

16-09-2007, 12:35 PM

1. Who are the Illuminati? (i.e. What/whom do you perceive them to be?)

2. How do they exert influence over the democratic / free market forces all around (and presumable, if you believe it, beneath) them?

3. What is their agenda?

4. Where/when do they meet outside the public eye? Politicians for example have very little free time if they work hard at their jobs.

5. Now take your answers to the above, and tell me please why you believe this. What are your sources of evidence?

I'm open-minded and can see a lot of evidence, for example, that the story of a plane hitting the pentagon is suspect. Reptilian shapeshifters is a little beyond me, tbh. I'm willing to listen to any reasoned argument, however.

I just don't feel swayed by Icke, having read all his books. He seems to just say stuff without any corroboration -.e.g. Ted Bundy was a member of a shapeshifting reptilian bloodline that has economic clout etc. If so, why was Bundy fried in an electric chair?

I guess what I'm saying is when I read, for example, John Pilger, I might find myself puzzling over his interpretation or opinion, but with Icke all that comes into my head are more unanswerable questions.

Thank you for your time. :)
David icke isnt the messiah,nobody has to believe him or anyone else for that matter.
Dont think are there too many 'believers' on here,its the wrong word to use.
You can read his books and treat him with respect and consider what he's saying but that is far as you can take it.:)

pierre_jean

16-09-2007, 01:35 PM

Not sure what you mean, Pierre. Which rebellion is that? I run because it makes me really healthy. I changed my life when I got up off that sofa a few year back.

It was an ironic remark, of course. You can continue running in a carefree manner, your pretty nike in the foot, fabricated by Pakistani children for 2 dollars by days...:rolleyes:

pierre_jean

16-09-2007, 01:38 PM

je t'aime!!!! :D

C'est vrai ? Attention, je suis très fleur bleue, faut pas jouer avec mes sentiments :D

celtic isis

16-09-2007, 03:23 PM

C'est vrai ? Attention, je suis très fleur bleue, faut pas jouer avec mes sentiments :D

hehehe oui c'est vrai mais je regrette je suis déjà fiancée mon petit chou :o:D

celtic isis

16-09-2007, 03:24 PM

It was an ironic remark, of course. You can continue running in a carefree manner, your pretty nike in the foot, fabricated by Pakistani children for 2 dollars by days...:rolleyes:

ouch :D

davidbarstis

16-09-2007, 03:48 PM

adimon

16-09-2007, 03:59 PM

LOL, Jesus! What a pointless thread. Who the hell actually thinks anyone has time here to go through all their life experiences and/or information that they have that brought them to their current level of understanding? There's no way I have the time or the space on here to explain why I believe what I do. And why do people ask questions that Icke answers, when they claim to have read Icke? I've read all Ickes books several times and each time I take something new from it. Theres no way someone can absorb and remember everything after one reading. Also, it is a contradiction to say your open minded but the reptile thing is too much. Take your nonsense somewhere else. Some of us can see bullshit a mile away. In my life, I've learned to see liars and fakes a mile away. People, do your own research. Real research takes a lifetime not a couple of years and 10 books.

Thanks, but I've taken much already from the fairly large response I've had, so in a sense you calling it pointless is mocking your fellow forum members quite heavily.

If you don't have the time, fine, but others do.

Some people on here find it totally incredible that I have read some of Icke's books and have formed a different opinion to them.

I've already apologised for the poor choice of words in the initial post, and with most people, it's moved on beyond that.

For you to declare my thoughts nonsense and bullshit just shows me you're fairly ignorant and intolerant.

You've got no idea of who I am or what my broader spectrum of thoughts might contain. I've already been accused of being a troll or spy or whatever. I've tried to show them I'm a real person and I'm here for discussion, but for you to call me a fake and a liar astounds me.

A fake what? What do you think I'm lying about.

Have you bothered reading the whole body of this thread. There's some good points made by a lot of people in it I would say. :cool:

adimon

16-09-2007, 04:02 PM

Hmm, and never mind my smiley face!!:D
I have no idea if you are vibrating or how, it just does not seem you are vibrating at the same level as most in here!! Thats all dear, not meant as an insult!

Peace and vibrations
F

Yes absolutely, just a bit of banter. :)

lizzy

16-09-2007, 04:07 PM

celtic isis

16-09-2007, 04:12 PM

davidbarstis

16-09-2007, 04:13 PM

Don't call someone who can see crap and call them on it ignorant. Opened minded doesn't mean to accept all crap. Your a fraud plain and simple and most see it. You can post whatever you want and I have the right to express my dissent. Your post revealed it. I am not mocking any of the honest posters and they know it. Stop trying to make it out to be something it's not. When I say fraud, I mean you come on here wanting to know what people think, not for you to get an understanding, but to argue on why they are wrong. Don't try to pretend to be honestly interested in what others think.

celtic isis

16-09-2007, 04:16 PM

LOL, Jesus! What a pointless thread. Who the hell actually thinks anyone has time here to go through all their life experiences and/or information that they have that brought them to their current level of understanding? There's no way I have the time or the space on here to explain why I believe what I do. And why do people ask questions that Icke answers, when they claim to have read Icke? I've read all Ickes books several times and each time I take something new from it. Theres no way someone can absorb and remember everything after one reading. Also, it is a contradiction to say your open minded but the reptile thing is too much. Take your nonsense somewhere else. Some of us can see bullshit a mile away. In my life, I've learned to see liars and fakes a mile away. People, do your own research. Real research takes a lifetime not a couple of years and 10 books.

great post there davidbarstis :)

i found i couldn't even answer the questions posed on here for that reason. If you're on the icke site you should already know the answers to these questions, not to say icke KNOWS it all, but like, jesus, look inside youself, your own heart knows what's true and what's happening. We all know somehting is wrong here. When i read cooper's book it answered all my questions and led me on to even more, which then led me on to icke etc.

And you said it perfectly there, real research takes a lifetime, not throughthis book or that book.

However i would recommend this book - The Sion Revelation _ Inside the Shadowy World of Europe's Secret Masters.
Not about what you think it is about ;)

i don't think i could even begin to put all the stuff i've got in my head down here, it's so hard to articulate it all or put it into words at the drop of a hat... lol

adimon

16-09-2007, 04:26 PM

davidbarstis

16-09-2007, 04:27 PM

Exactly celtic isis. If I thought it was an honest post, i would have answered differently. No reasonable person asks in a forum for someone to list all the reasons what proof there is in what they belive in. Maybe adimon can sum up their beliefs in a sentence which goes to show how much they really thought things out. Adimon wants to argue with people.

davidbarstis

16-09-2007, 04:28 PM

Oh that classic! You're right and I'm wrong!

You can call me fraud and dishonest, but I can't defend myself!

Yeah that's a good one. Ha! :D

Who said you couldn't defend yourself??? Where does it say that? But calling someone ignorant because they think you are dishonest is not a defense.

adimon

16-09-2007, 04:30 PM

I am a new member but I know why I am here. It must be very frustrating to have to educate newbies. These 5 questions really should be known or they don't really understand the forum that they have entered.
I am all for ' getting the word" out but I sympathise anyone having to do basic ed. with a newbie.
BUT as David says
No act of kindness no matter how samll is ever wasted"
liz

Welcome also. I'm not a newbie to world of alternative viewponts, lizzy.

I was asking those questions for the purposes of clarification and debate, not because I had no idea what they were about. I've also apologised for maybe getting off on the wrong foot by using a poor choice of words in the thread title and the first post, but SOME PEOPLE won't let me forget it.

Thanks

lizzy

16-09-2007, 07:35 PM

adimon

16-09-2007, 07:47 PM

hi adimon..... I was a bit 'smart ass',sorry, I am new to this forum too but not to the Illuminarti..it is a HUGE arena and once you see the manipuation by this evil. it is really hard to stomach. So good luck.
I see you are in Wales, man , I wish I was, my brother lives in Pembroke, I am stuck in the Pacific NW, usa....I stay here only because my children are here. But I am glad that we are all HERE.

Hey don't worry :)

Yes Wales is often beautiful. Whereabouts in the Pacific NW are you? I visited there a few years ago - Oregon, Washington, Vancouver - I liked it (despite the rain) - but hey it rains all the time in Wales. We've had a superb summer though.

Going back to business - I am not 'new' to the idea of the Illuminati/NWO. Yes I agree some facts have come to light which are hard to stomach. The concept of this post though was an attempt to separate research from hearsay, which I think is way too widespread.

What sources are you currently looking at?