How to Reject Karma

[sphere555]

Let's face with, without karma, there would be no need for re-incarnation. This whole reality construct would then completely fall apart.

Now, here's the interesting bit... Karma only has power over you, so long as you give it power! Did you catch that?

So here's how to reject karma and lessen its grip on your life:

Let's face it, people who appear selfless are actually selfish. When they behave selflessly towards other, their real hidden agenda is the expectation of good karma to flow into their life. "Do unto others, as you would have done unto yourself" must have been their greatest cliche phrase by now.

The reality is, karma does not care what good you've done in the past. So long as you accept karma, it will bring both good and bad into your life. By doing good in expectation of returned good karma, these guys will have already handed their rear ends to the Lord of Karma.

So you see, the only real way to defeat karma is to completely reject it, so that it no longer has power over you.

:cool:

[kelly_2010]

Let's face with, without karma, there would be no need for re-incarnation. This whole reality construct would then completely fall apart.

Now, here's the interesting bit... Karma only has power over you, so long as you give it power! Did you catch that?

So here's how to reject karma and lessen its grip on your life:

Let's face it, people who appear selfless are actually selfish. When they behave selflessly towards other, their real hidden agenda is the expectation of good karma to flow into their life. "Do unto others, as you would have done unto yourself" must have been their greatest cliche phrase by now.

The reality is, karma does not care what good you've done in the past. So long as you accept karma, it will bring good and bad into your life. By doing good in expectation of returned good karma, these guys would have already handed their rear ends to the Lord of Karma.

So you see, the only real way to defeat karma is to completely reject it, so that it no longer has power over you.

:cool:

Anyway, you can go and buy your way out of bad Karma at shrines so it's all good eh!

Karma is like committing sin on credit. Sin now pay later - with interest!

[sphere555]

Anyway, you can go and buy your way out of bad Karma at shrines so it's all good eh!

Karma is like committing sin on credit. Sin now pay later - with interest!

That's exactly it! Karma with interest is like the Federal Reserve system -- a complete scam! :cool:

[purple rain]

You left out the part about how to reject karma.

[sphere555]

You left out the part about how to reject karma.

Oh... It's real easy.

How to reject karma: Don't be a nice guy/girl. (That is not to say you are given free reign to go out and harm/hurt people). :cool:

[trepidation]

Let's face it, people who appear selfless are actually selfish. When they behave selflessly towards other, their real hidden agenda is the expectation of good karma to flow into their life. "Do unto others, as you would have done unto yourself" must have been their greatest cliche phrase by now.

Just because your life or someone else's may or may not have operated on a punishment/reward incentive doesn't mean everyone who has made selfless actions in their life operates the same way. Operating in such a manner is no better than a dog, "good boy, bad boy" it's all the same thing. We have the capability to enjoy what we do simply for its own sake, I don't know about you but I wouldn't need a dog biscuit to compel me to save someone drowning.

[glacidtek]

do what thou will...shall be the whole of the law?

[sphere555]

Just because your life or someone else's may or may not have operated on a punishment/reward incentive doesn't mean everyone who has made selfless actions in their life operates the same way. Operating in such a manner is no better than a dog, "good boy, bad boy" it's all the same thing. We have the capability to enjoy what we do simply for its own sake, I don't know about you but I wouldn't need a dog biscuit to compel me to save someone drowning.

I wasn't talking about these exceptional extreme circumstances. I was talking about your general attitude to everyday life. Most people generally do you a favor b/c they expect something in return, although most of the time, this may not be immediately obvious. :cool:

[sphere555]

do what thou will...shall be the whole of the law?

That is close enough. "Do what thou will... except for the taking of another's life... for then, he can screw with yours from the 4th dimension as a spirit in agony." Of course, if you cheat another, he can always revenge by gathering your foes and his friends. :cool:

[trepidation]

I wasn't talking about these exceptional extreme circumstances. I was talking about your general attitude to everyday life. Most people generally do you a favor b/c they expect something in return, although most of the time, this may not be immediately obvious. :cool:

Such an incentive completely undermines the action in my opinion, rather than reject karma one should instead train themselves to give without expecting to receive anything in return... It's the thought that counts, right?

[sphere555]

Such an incentive completely undermines the action in my opinion, rather than reject karma one should instead train themselves to give without expecting to receive anything in return... It's the thought that counts, right?

This sounds good on paper. But it's not really practical in real life. You'd have to take baby steps at first to get there. And so the baby step to begin breaking away from karma is to stop being a nice guy/girl -- at first. Try it for 1 day, 30 days, 90 days, and take it from there. :cool:

[sphere555]

Of course, the alternative is to declare bankruptcy at the Federal Reserve Bank of Karma. The problem is, where can this institution be found? :cool:

[Ian2day]

My name is Earl, was my way of admitting my transgressions as a child and attempting to make amends for them. However the po never let it go. Instead they continued with playing a game of chess with my life. To all you Mofos fu fo man chu in blue!

[purple rain]

So Sphere, not being nice does not create karma? There's more than just good karma.

Besides if karma is a natural law how do you suddenly decide you don't fall within that law?

[marpat]

This sounds good on paper. But it's not really practical in real life. You'd have to take baby steps at first to get there. And so the baby step to begin breaking away from karma is to stop being a nice guy/girl -- at first. Try it for 1 day, 30 days, 90 days, and take it from there. :cool:

Yet what you propose might sound good on paper but will it work in any way? is your proposal of any practical benefit? it seems more a reaction to negativity in life than the product of some liberating realisation.

[tusme]

...it seems more a reaction to negativity in life than the product of some liberating realisation.
Hmm, exactly my thoughts... :confused: :)

[sphere555]

Yet what you propose might sound good on paper but will it work in any way? is your proposal of any practical benefit? it seems more a reaction to negativity in life than the product of some liberating realisation.

No no no. You mis-understand. When you stop being nice, you're waving your middle finger at the Lord of Karma, saying, "I don't care if good or bad karma comes my way!" Hence, you reject karma altogether! :cool:

[let it shine]

so basically your switching GOD for the word 'karma' and advising us all to be assholes. that's great, really.

i know that you don't expect to avoid your debts in the end, so why are you making it harder on yourself by suggesting that we do?

[kelly_2010]

No no no. You mis-understand. When you stop being nice, you're waving your middle finger at the Lord of Karma, saying, "I don't care if good or bad karma comes my way!" Hence, you reject karma altogether! :cool:

Actually to reject karma you'd have to be neither good nor bad. But as that is subjective it is impossible to do.

And by 'waving your finger at karma' you are validating its existence.

To reject karma would be to deny its existence, in which case you shouldn't even be discussing it.

[let it shine]

i'm really surprised that people here aren't catching on to all these :cool: and ;) smilies that you people use when you're spreading your disinfo.

[energi]

No no no. You mis-understand. When you stop being nice, you're waving your middle finger at the Lord of Karma, saying, "I don't care if good or bad karma comes my way!" Hence, you reject karma altogether! :cool:

And like your view on karma, this is not really practical in real life. Baby steps... ;):p

[sphere555]

Actually to reject karma you'd have to be neither good nor bad. But as that is subjective it is impossible to do.

And by 'waving your finger at karma' you are validating its existence.

To reject karma would be to deny its existence, in which case you shouldn't even be discussing it.

A better term would be, you're ignoring karma's consequences.

Another way to look at it is... If you display conditional love towards your fellow men/women, you're opening up to the Lord of Karma, saying, "here, I accept you! Come and exact some karmic debt from my past lives!"

That don't sound too good, does it? :cool:

[kelly_2010]

Another way to look at it is... If you display conditional love towards your fellow men/women, you're opening up to the Lord of Karma, saying, "here, I accept you! Come and exact some karmic debt from my past lives!"



Why not just register yourself as a Karmic bankrupt then? Problem solved.

Hey man, but isn't all love conditional? My guru told me that last Thursday.

[sphere555]

Why not just register yourself as a Karmic bankrupt then? Problem solved.

Hey man, but isn't all love conditional? My guru told me that last Thursday.

Should read all [human] love is conditional, which is why we'll continue to be slaves to the time loop. :cool:

[steevo]

The main reason that we discuss "karma" is because we have forgotten what TRUTH is. We are trying to remember what TRUTH is, and "Karma" is a subject that is linked to TRUTH (TRUTH cannot actually be expressed in words), hence we can never find it in a book. We can find words in the book that act like a signpost which points to TRUTH, but even then, those "signposts" are not TRUTH.
In my opinion, there IS something (you could call it "karma" if you prefer), but karma is a word that basically means that if you live in NON-TRUTH, then the universe/god/karma will make you and others suffer (individually and/or collectively) until you start to live in TRUTH (individually and collectivelly).

[darkrue]

The main reason that we discuss "karma" is because we have forgotten what TRUTH is. We are trying to remember what TRUTH is, and "Karma" is a subject that is linked to TRUTH (TRUTH cannot actually be expressed in words), hence we can never find it in a book. We can find words in the book that act like a signpost which points to TRUTH, but even then, those "signposts" are not TRUTH.
In my opinion, there IS something (you could call it "karma" if you prefer), but karma is a word that basically means that if you live in NON-TRUTH, then the universe/god/karma will make you and others suffer (individually and/or collectively) until you start to live in TRUTH (individually and collectivelly).

I agree. No one but the individual can really define what thier truth may be. Everyone's truth is different based on their own experiences and it cannot be found anywhere outside of the self. The concept of karma in and of itself gets skewed because it's yet another way in which we try to put value on ourselves and others that may or may not really be the absolute truth.

Karma, by most definitions, is a wierd concept to me. I constantly see good things happening to bad people, and bad things happening to good people. It doesn't seem to be a very good measuring tool. It seems to me just another way to shame people into acting a certain way, falling into line, so to speak, hence distancing them further from their own truth.

[marpat]

No no no. You mis-understand. When you stop being nice, you're waving your middle finger at the Lord of Karma, saying, "I don't care if good or bad karma comes my way!" Hence, you reject karma altogether! :cool:

But if you say you dont care if good or bad comes you way you are accpeting the consequences of it are you not? it is hardly a denial of anything

[marpat]

A better term would be, you're ignoring karma's consequences.

Another way to look at it is... If you display conditional love towards your fellow men/women, you're opening up to the Lord of Karma, saying, "here, I accept you! Come and exact some karmic debt from my past lives!"

That don't sound too good, does it? :cool:

I think you have some very odd ideas about karma. Do you think that by somehow closing yourself off from everything that you somehow avoid anything bad coming your way?

Ignoring things is not good in any way.

[sphere555]

I think you have some very odd ideas about karma. Do you think that by somehow closing yourself off from everything that you somehow avoid anything bad coming your way?

Ignoring things is not good in any way.

Karma is like having a bad poltergeist experience. When you ignore it, eventually, the poltergeist goes on to bug someone else, who's more receptive to his/her/its mischiefs.

It's the same like how people who could see ghostly apparitions, who then choose to ignore them, and eventually stop seeing their manifestations. :cool:

[danster82]

You cannot fake it though you must be genuine, its true that most outwardly selfless people are selfish they may not be consciously aware of it but at inner levels it is complete understood by them therefore they create karma because they know they are not selfless at heart but only at head, this is another meaning of Gods all seeing eye its all seeing because its you, anywhere you go in body or mind there you are and you cannot kid yourself even if you think you can.

Therefore you can overcome karma but you must be pure in truth, utterly pure, you cannot overcome karma by making up some idea that you can reject it by some means of thought because once again you will know either consciously or not that you are kidding yourself.

[marpat]

Karma is like having a bad poltergeist experience. When you ignore it, eventually, the poltergeist goes on to bug someone else, who's more receptive to his/her/its mischiefs.

It's the same like how people who could see ghostly apparitions, who then choose to ignore them, and eventually stop seeing their manifestations. :cool:

Said who? you are just looking for an excuse to dodge something you expect to come to you. What you are actually stating is that when your own bad karma comes back to you to sort out that you should just ignore it and let somebody else take the fall. Really good of you that. Why not just let others deal with all the fallout from your misdeeds.

[sphere555]

You cannot fake it though you must be genuine, its true that most outwardly selfless people are selfish they may not be consciously aware of it but at inner levels it is complete understood by them therefore they create karma because they know they are not selfless at heart but only at head, this is another meaning of Gods all seeing eye its all seeing because its you, anywhere you go in body or mind there you are and you cannot kid yourself even if you think you can.

Therefore you can overcome karma but you must be pure in truth, utterly pure, you cannot overcome karma by making up some idea that you can reject it by some means of thought because once again you will know either consciously or not that you are kidding yourself.

See? Danster knows what I'm talking about. :cool:

[lake2348]

Looks like many of you are missing the main point of Icke's cosmogony. There is no bad/good, karma/reincarnation, god/devil unless you accept the reptilian agenda.

There are only appropriate or inappropriate thoughts and actions that result in consequences. Acceptance of the consequences is the only thing that matters. If you can't accept the possible consequences, don't think it and don't do it.

It takes a bit of wisdom to work out what may be the consequences of thoughts and actions prior. There is no all-seeing eye of god judging us. Prime Source is neutral and has given humans free will. The reptilians have given us good/evil and guilt through religion. There is absolutely zero to be gained from feelings of guilt.

Just remember, when you arrive at the Pearly Gates, it's the reps shape shifted to appear as angels or light beings or whatever, there to talk you into reincarnation by falsely revealing your 'karma'. Just say NO and move on.

[michael christopher]

Maybe people are good because it's the right thing to do.

This post sounds like a rationalization you've made for your own bad behavior to me.

I agree that karma has only the power over us that we give it, however it has the power to elevate us far greater than we can elevate ourselves by behaving selfishly. Selflessness is not selfishness no matter how you want to paint it.

[tusme]

The main reason that we discuss "karma" is because we have forgotten what TRUTH is. We are trying to remember what TRUTH is, and "Karma" is a subject that is linked to TRUTH (TRUTH cannot actually be expressed in words), hence we can never find it in a book. We can find words in the book that act like a signpost which points to TRUTH, but even then, those "signposts" are not TRUTH.
In my opinion, there IS something (you could call it "karma" if you prefer), but karma is a word that basically means that if you live in NON-TRUTH, then the universe/god/karma will make you and others suffer (individually and/or collectively) until you start to live in TRUTH (individually and collectivelly).
Wow...could not have put it better, thanks Steevo!! http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif :)

[pinkfreud]

the main point made by the OP isn't bunkum; however the notion that one shouldn't strive to be 'moral' does not really strike a chord with me.

the common perception of karma as being nothing but a moral banking system is very flawed. people think it's a 'credit and debit' system of all things 'good' and 'bad'. the thing is that this view falls short of the idea that any sort of action (action being a root meaning of 'karma'), whether we term it 'good' or 'bad', actually binds us in recurring cause and effect. in order to attain consciousness or enlightenment, one needs to escape the cycle of life, death, and rebirth and the knot of karma... so yes, karma can be transcended.



edit: and to elaborate further- karma cannot be rejected. it is a prerequisite of life, one of the many obstacles you need to overcome to get where you truly want to be.

[jolinemaria]

Life cannot be understood, you can only live it.
It is only an experience, no need to label it good or bad.
If you consciously live the experience then no karma will touch you.

[tusme]

I agree. No one but the individual can really define what thier truth may be. Everyone's truth is different based on their own experiences and it cannot be found anywhere outside of the self. The concept of karma in and of itself gets skewed because it's yet another way in which we try to put value on ourselves and others that may or may not really be the absolute truth.
The "Truth", which we consider to be ours alone, is finite, meaning, such energy vibrates exclusively from the Mind, and thus, only exists within this Physical dimension...

The "Truth", which a person chooses and understands to exist within one's Spirit, is Infinite, thus, it is indeed possible for such Truth energy to exists/vibrate perfectly within the Spirit (GOD/Truth) dimension & this Physical dimension...furthermore, in the case of such an individual, the Mind (and the body) is merely the vehicle for a perfect, beautiful & unique manifestation of Physical experience/expression/creation of Truth...

Karma, by most definitions, is a wierd concept to me. I constantly see good things happening to bad people, and bad things happening to good people. It doesn't seem to be a very good measuring tool. It seems to me just another way to shame people into acting a certain way, falling into line, so to speak, hence distancing them further from their own truth.
With all due respect, the manner in which you're analysing/observing "karma" expressed through others, is relative to only yourself...otherwise, I'm pretty sure, if you were to speak with those people, they wouldn't see it the way you do...know what I mean...!?

"Karma", imho, is a Physical dimension condition/principle, meaning, there's no escaping/rejecting it...otherwise, "Karma" itself is subject to (Spirit dimension) Truth energy, meaning, as in the case of the OP feeling the need to "reject" it, the only way that is "possible", is to know, be and express Truth...co's, besides our (and this Physical dimension's) Source and purpose, aligning/synchronising our Physical energy with that of Truth, will automatically allow our (physical/mind's) energy to vibrate beyond that of Karma...in which case, nevermind escaping/rejecting it, we (our energy) become one energy with karma itself... :eek: :)

[tusme]

Said who? you are just looking for an excuse to dodge something you expect to come to you. What you are actually stating is that when your own bad karma comes back to you to sort out that you should just ignore it and let somebody else take the fall. Really good of you that. Why not just let others deal with all the fallout from your misdeeds.
:D

[tusme]

Life cannot be understood, you can only live it.
It is only an experience, no need to label it good or bad.
If you consciously live the experience then no karma will touch you.
I'd settle for that...!! :D

[kelly_2010]

Should read all [human] love is conditional, which is why we'll continue to be slaves to the time loop. :cool:

So you're saying if every human loved every other human being unconditionally we would all go to some heaven place out of the so called time loop?

How do you suggest people should love child killers and pedos?

There are major flaws in your plan Sphere555.

[marpat]

Looks like many of you are missing the main point of Icke's cosmogony. There is no bad/good, karma/reincarnation, god/devil unless you accept the reptilian agenda.

There are only appropriate or inappropriate thoughts and actions that result in consequences. Acceptance of the consequences is the only thing that matters. If you can't accept the possible consequences, don't think it and don't do it.

It takes a bit of wisdom to work out what may be the consequences of thoughts and actions prior. There is no all-seeing eye of god judging us. Prime Source is neutral and has given humans free will. The reptilians have given us good/evil and guilt through religion. There is absolutely zero to be gained from feelings of guilt.

Just remember, when you arrive at the Pearly Gates, it's the reps shape shifted to appear as angels or light beings or whatever, there to talk you into reincarnation by falsely revealing your 'karma'. Just say NO and move on.

So this is Ickes cosmogony? what makes his views any superior to views that have been around for millenia? just because he talks about these things it does not mean he is right in any way so lets not get hung up on the old 'David Icke said it'. His reptilian agenda is far from foolproof anyway so why should people deny one set of ideas in order to believe another set of ideas that cannot and have not been proven to be any better.

As for heaven, didnt jesus say it's within

[marpat]

So you're saying if every human loved every other human being unconditionally we would all go to some heaven place out of the so called time loop?

How do you suggest people should love child killers and pedos?

There are major flaws in your plan Sphere555.

As horrible as it sounds I think the absolute answer would be yes.

Unconditional love on its own is not the answer to anything. Love is often very blind.

[enga]

I think karma is just the same as cause and effect. What you do has results and you are subject to those...it's a natural law.
If I behave like a shit then everyone will hate me or if I spend all my money before getting repaid I go hungry. What you do has an effect in the long term and it starts with how you think. You can't escape your actions as far as I'm aware.

[sphere555]

So you're saying if every human loved every other human being unconditionally we would all go to some heaven place out of the so called time loop?

How do you suggest people should love child killers and pedos?

There are major flaws in your plan Sphere555.

Um, I think you're missing the point of this thread. The only real solution is to love no one, not even yourself. Become impartial to everyone including yourself. :cool:

[steevo]

Um, I think you're missing the point of this thread. The only real solution is to love no one, not even yourself. Become impartial to everyone including yourself. :cool:

Love/oneness/truth is a state of being.

[sphere555]

I think karma is just the same as cause and effect. What you do has results and you are subject to those...it's a natural law.
If I behave like a shit then everyone will hate me or if I spend all my money before getting repaid I go hungry. What you do has an effect in the long term and it starts with how you think. You can't escape your actions as far as I'm aware.

This is the same kind of thinking as the people who claim that 95% of DNA is junk DNA. In a real universe, not this illusion we call reality, cause & effect would be the only laws, which apply.

Karma is very "real" and independent of cause & effect in this "reality". Though you cannot see them, there are shadows -- agents of karma lurking at every corner of the street waiting for you to give them an excuse to act. Do not give them any power over you by rejecting them completely!

Once again, it is important that I stress that there is a third party involved between the giver and the receiver. The middle man is a being, just like you and I. Though you cannot see him/her/it with the naked eyes, he/she/it can affect matter just like you can lift a cup. :cool:

[kelly_2010]

Um, I think you're missing the point of this thread. The only real solution is to love no one, not even yourself. Become impartial to everyone including yourself. :cool:

No Sphere, you can't keep shifting the goal posts, lol. You said that everyone should feel unconditional love for everyone else - that is not the same as not feeling love at all.

Explain how everyone can feel unconditional love and not feel love at the same time - which is what you are suggesting!

For someone who claims to be anti karma - as you do - it seems you are pushing a Buddhist style agenda. Did you think no one would notice what you are actually doing? ;)

[trepidation]

Um, I think you're missing the point of this thread. The only real solution is to love no one, not even yourself. Become impartial to everyone including yourself. :cool:

You can still be impartial and love everyone, it's how you value people (e.g. family and friends vs complete strangers) that determines your partiality. Besides, what will take the place of the love you reject... Hatred? Fear? Alienation? Indifference?

[sphere555]

This just came to me. If you want to go back to living in flatland 2-D universe, where there are only two poles, two sides to everything, then you're more than welcome to. We live in one dimension higher up. This is what I'm trying to get at:

2-D UNIVERSE:

Cause <----------------> Effect


3-D UNIVERSE:

Agents of Karma
/\
/__\
/____\
/______\
You ^^^^^^ Me

(Where ^ = goes thru a 3rd party).

Other 3-D examples:

Father
/\
/__\
/____\
/______\
Son ^^^^^^ Holy Spirit

Other competitors
/\
/__\
/____\
/______\
Business ^^^^^^ Customer

Tri-
/\
/__\
/____\
/______\
Lateral ^^^^^^ Commission

Morpheus
/\
/__\
/____\
/______\
Neo ^^^^^^ Trinity

Sun
/\
/__\
/____\
/______\
Earth ^^^^^^ Moon(light)

Love
/\
/__\
/____\
/______\
Tri- ^^^^^^ Angle


The Shadow League of Agents of Karma are like bullies in the playground. They love to pick on the goody-tissues and the weaklings. Learn to stand up to them by saying, "NO!":

http://www.thekingpin.net/adminspace/vittu/neo_reloaded.jpg
("I reject karma!")

[darkrue]

The "Truth", which we consider to be ours alone, is finite, meaning, such energy vibrates exclusively from the Mind, and thus, only exists within this Physical dimension...

The "Truth", which a person chooses and understands to exist within one's Spirit, is Infinite, thus, it is indeed possible for such Truth energy to exists/vibrate perfectly within the Spirit (GOD/Truth) dimension & this Physical dimension...furthermore, in the case of such an individual, the Mind (and the body) is merely the vehicle for a perfect, beautiful & unique manifestation of Physical experience/expression/creation of Truth...

With all due respect, the manner in which you're analysing/observing "karma" expressed through others, is relative to only yourself...otherwise, I'm pretty sure, if you were to speak with those people, they wouldn't see it the way you do...know what I mean...!?:)

"Karma", imho, is a Physical dimension condition/principle, meaning, there's no escaping/rejecting it...otherwise, "Karma" itself is subject to (Spirit dimension) Truth energy, meaning, as in the case of the OP feeling the need to "reject" it, the only way that is "possible", is to know, be and express Truth...co's, besides our (and this Physical dimension's) Source and purpose, aligning/synchronising our Physical energy with that of Truth, will automatically allow our (physical/mind's) energy to vibrate beyond that of Karma...in which case, nevermind escaping/rejecting it, we (our energy) become one energy with karma itself... :eek: :)

I understand what you mean :) I honestly never expect anyone to see things the same way that I do, though I probably didn't express that very well. I also readily admit, I don't always understand what other people are believing, experiencing, and I'm trying to learn a bit of empathy in order to be better at connecting with others.

The way that karma was always presented to me was very cut and dry and was never quite proven to work in the ways it was layed out (three-fold laws or punishment due to negative past life). I honestly don't know. It is a good guideline, but to me, not necessarily an acurate measurment of spiritual worth.

I am curious though. Does one not have to understand their own 'finite' truth before they can truly have understanding and access to 'infinite' truth?

Also, wouldn't karma just be another term for consequence? You either accept consequences/karma, take your bumps and move on, or you choose to suffer because of them. Rejecting it would just be rejecting life lessons and opportunity to grow, right?

[tusme]

Hey Darkrue,

I understand what you mean :) I honestly never expect anyone to see things the same way that I do, though I probably didn't express that very well. I also readily admit, I don't always understand what other people are believing, experiencing, and I'm trying to learn a bit of empathy in order to be better at connecting with others.
Imho, "empathy" is a natural occurrence when people appreciate their connection with others on a Truth or energetic level... :)

The way that karma was always presented to me was very cut and dry and was never quite proven to work in the ways it was layed out (three-fold laws or punishment due to negative past life). I honestly don't know. It is a good guideline, but to me, not necessarily an acurate measurment of spiritual worth.
Think the reason most people view Karma as an "obstacle" is, co's they themselves perhaps have not awakened to their Spirit of Truth...otherwise, as previously stated, when a person has consciously chosen to expand the point of observation, to that of Truth, then all obstacles, including Karma will be merely an experience rather than an obstacle...co's you see, Truth energy is the highest vibrational energy/frequency, in the Spirit (GOD/Truth) realm (Source) and this Physical dimension...the expression/experience of the Source.

Again, Karma is a Physical dimension condition/principle...if a person's consciousness is vibrating at the level of Truth or Spirit of Truth, then such energy will automatically be synchronised with all other Physical dimensions conditions/principles, ie, free-will, relativity, duality, gravity, time, space, karma, etc, etc...

I am curious though. Does one not have to understand their own 'finite' truth before they can truly have understanding and access to 'infinite' truth?
Hmm, not easy understanding our "own finite truth", especially, when we ourselves were not be responsible for it's development through the initial stages of our Physical dimension experience...otherwise, if our parents, religious/educational/life's teachers nurtured us to understand and appreciate our "Infinite Truth", then, this reality & "finite truth" would be a infinitely easier experience/expression to comprehend...hope that made sense...!? :)

Also, wouldn't karma just be another term for consequence? You either accept consequences/karma, take your bumps and move on, or you choose to suffer because of them. Rejecting it would just be rejecting life lessons and opportunity to grow, right?
Imho, it is impossible for a Physical being to reject a Physical dimension energy/condition/principle, in this case Karma, which exists beyond it's own energy...dunno if that makes any sense? :)

Truth (energy), is the energy which manifested this Physical dimension, and indeed the "sequence" of it's principle/conditions, including Karma...however, when Truth is not the experience/expression, a "con-sequence" is the experience/expression... :eek: :D

[darkrue]

Hey Darkrue,


Imho, "empathy" is a natural occurrence when people appreciate their connection with others on a Truth or energetic level... :)


Think the reason most people view Karma as an "obstacle" is, co's they themselves perhaps have not awakened to their Spirit of Truth...otherwise, as previously stated, when a person has consciously chosen to expand the point of observation, to that of Truth, then all obstacles, including Karma will be merely an experience rather than an obstacle...co's you see, Truth energy is the highest vibrational energy/frequency, in the Spirit (GOD/Truth) realm (Source) and this Physical dimension...the expression/experience of the Source.

Again, Karma is a Physical dimension condition/principle...if a person's consciousness is vibrating at the level of Truth or Spirit of Truth, then such energy will automatically be synchronised with all other Physical dimensions conditions/principles, ie, free-will, relativity, duality, gravity, time, space, karma, etc, etc...


Hmm, not easy understanding our "own finite truth", especially, when we ourselves were not be responsible for it's development through the initial stages of our Physical dimension experience...otherwise, if our parents, religious/educational/life's teachers nurtured us to understand and appreciate our "Infinite Truth", then, this reality & "finite truth" would be a infinitely easier experience/expression to comprehend...hope that made sense...!? :)


Imho, it is impossible for a Physical being to reject a Physical dimension energy/condition/principle, in this case Karma, which exists beyond it's own energy...dunno if that makes any sense? :)

Truth (energy), is the energy which manifested this Physical dimension, and indeed the "sequence" of it's principle/conditions, including Karma...however, when Truth is not the experience/expression, a "con-sequence" is the experience/expression... :eek: :D

Wow, thank you so much for clarifying that for me :)

[nectars]

do what thou will...shall be the whole of the law?

You forgot the "Love is the Law, Love under Will". That has some serious implications.

Anyway.

Why not reject Gravity right now then and see if it stops screwing with you? Better yet, refuse to breath -just say "no" to it. The problem here is we're so heavily programmed that our potential is limited from the depths of the unconscious, so until this is cleaned out theres really no way to harness that potential and remove "individual Karma". Theres also Group Karma(those who live in from the lower energy fields are subject to this) and the Karma of God or Self(prior contractual agreement to coming here) as well, but that not really what we're talking about here.

Although this is my own understanding it will be short and to the point, so "let those who have eyes to see and ears to hear" understand. If you choose to reject it then so be it.

Karma is a consequence of who and what we are as a totality of ourself(small s); thoughts, feelings, emotions, wants, memories, hopes, fears etc. both past & present. We are neither judged by Karma nor by any "God"; we judge ourselves by virtue of what we are -even unconsciously, and by our own hand do we create, recreate or remove Karmic consequenses. Karma is not created in the act; it initiates in thoughts and feelings which are themselves determined by What We Are. And so the cycle continues.

We can't "undo" Karma as the very act of attempting to undo it creates more, so the act of rejecting it will merely continue it in a different way.

We can get rid of Karma but not by rejecting it. To reach the stage where we can say "no" we must first clean out the unconscious or Know What We Really Are.

[sativa]

this Karma you speak of
sounds alot like the "man with the big flowing beard sitting in the clouds, judging everything you do as GOOD or BAD!"
if you do BAD punshiment is bestowed on you
if you do GOOD the gates of heaven open
so daily reactions are experienced through fear of doing BAD?
and then even doing GOOD is tainted by fearing doing BAD.
gee, that gets confusing :rolleyes: heh heh.

anyhoo, i get what you mean about some people appearing as selfless giving people (eg. people who send money to POOR people) just so their ego's are satisfied with a healthy mouthful of self importance.
but karma seems a tricky thing, because the Universe doesnt judge....
it only gives what has been asked of, whether one is conscious of their own asking or not.
life is full of lessons to learn, one must take the good with the bad, and its the uncomfortable lessons that carry the greatest of pearls, once you crack through the tough and horrible exterior! :):)

[sphere555]

anyhoo, i get what you mean about some people appearing as selfless giving people (eg. people who send money to POOR people) just so their ego's are satisfied with a healthy mouthful of self importance.

Good point, Sativa. Where I come from, this is call condescension. Those kinds of people must be feeling pretty smug about their superior socio-economic position. Bad karma for them! :cool:

[sphere555]

http://individuatechurch.50webs.com/selfesteem.html

Ego...

My first association is of pride and humility.

Even kinds of "pride" considered purely positive, for instance having a positive sense of self-worth because you do good deeds for others, seem to me less than what is healthiest psychologically.

It is my opinion that the healthiest psyche is free of delusions of pride and humility, and is completely selfless (to the extent desire no longer exists, that one moves toward repairing malfunctions in the macrocosmic mind).

My problem with humility is when humility lessens one's opinion of oneself. Attachment to having to value self-importance or self-worth beyond the level of objectively assessing strengths and weaknesses, and ways to apply yourself.

Ego is feeling a sense of joy or a sense of negativity because of how you see yourself as a person - and in extension, because of how you identify with the world.

Instead, I would recommend finding a way to take control of your own emotional response, and to learn to feel love regardless of the circumstance you find yourself in, and to not attach that feeling of love to anything. According to a friend of mine, this would inspire omnidirectional helpfulness & total personal fulfilment in the present moment.

Self esteem usually feeds on self-blame, positive and negative. Positive: "I am attractive." "I am good at sports." "I am a math wiz." "I'm real powerful guy." Negative: "I look terrible in this dress." "I am overweight." "I rarely perform well in school." Such statements carry little weight if the blame is shifted from the personality to causality.

Illustration: that a handful of sand released from a great height, by virtue of falling in a sequence, each grain encountering other moving parts on its way to the ground, lands in a predetermined pattern. That if nonsequential causality is a contradiction in terms, every event in the time stream occurs deterministically.

Rephrasing the original Positive statements: "As the inevitable result of previous causes, through no fault of my own, I appear pleasing to most people, am lucky enough to perform well at sports and math." Rephrasing the original negative statements: "By virtue of a deterministic sequence of events, I've put on an ugly dress, gained too much weight, and performed horribly at school."

Removing the element of blame does not defeat pride/humility & shame/guilt completely, but I think it's a good start. It proves such emotions are illogical.

Meditation: Encountering a sensation of Pride, admit to yourself your pride's food source is a lie, & see if you can hold onto the pleasant sensation anyhow. See if you can duplicate the feeling without having to tell yourself you've done or been anything to earn it.

A related component of the Ego: That I have an attachment to a static image of my identity. That I am a certain way and subconsciously fight my ability to change. Or that I have an attachment to a static image of an "ideal" identity I constantly askew my view of myself, and my behavior, to promote.

"My" personality, rather than motion free of self identification.