Curious Case of Criminal Last Names/My 1st Post

[cathar]

Thirty years ago I was looking through the NEW DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN FAMILY NAMES by Elsdon C. Smith and happened to glance at an open newspaper which had an article about serial killers.Long story short:over the next few weeks I came to realize that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of the following last name meanings.
[1]dweller in or near a swamp,marsh,moor,or waste land.
[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest/[3]dweller on uncultivated or barren land./[4]dweller in a deep valley or hollow.
Examples:Richard Speck:One who came from Speke[brushwood] in Lancashire.
Kissinger:one who came from Kissing[swamp]in Germany.
Cheney:one who came from Chaney[oak grove] in France.

Bush:dweller on uncultivated ground.

>the above IS NOT A JOKE!! all questions will be answered..there is more to this than what's on the page.

[ninny]

interesting.

[cathar]

Palin:dweller near a swamp or marsh...Sarah's maiden name is Heath:one who came from Heath,waste land with low schrubs..these people tend to marry each other the term "BEYOND THE PALE" comes from thes word meaning..

Want more? just ask.

[cathar]

Another strange dynamic to this Last Name Meaning business is that many of the gun fighters of the old west have last names that originated in West Riding in Yorkshire,which is where some of the battles between the Scots and Crown armies took place.The battle that the Stewart forces lost {Bonnie Prince Charly}resulted in the deportation of many on the losing side to America.So you see where I'm going with this...Racial memory? Fighting spirit in the DNA? There is something going on here but I haven't got all the puzzle pieces put together..
I do know that ghosts tend to inhabit wet areas more than dry areas...so I'm thinking some sort of generational spirit possesion.I do think that the worst sort of killers are possesed because the nature of some of their crimes is "beyond belief" What other explaination is there.

[kguk]

Ok, i thought i should look into this to see how accurate it is. I found a site that lists the top 10 most evil serial killers (http://listverse.com/2007/08/22/top-10-evil-serial-killers/)

1. Gilles de Rais. Pays de Retz is a historic area of France that lies between the southern shore of the Loire estuary and the Marais breton (Breton marshes). His father was Guy de Laval-Montmorency. Montmorency (http://www.wordreference.com/fren/Montmorency) if French for the Morello cherry, which is a cultivated form of the sour cherry. Also Morello is associated with a Morello crime family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Looks like a good explanation for this guy.

2. Richard Trenton Chase. Chase, in geographic terms, refers to a wild area of wetland, heath or grassland usually reserved for hunting. Similar to the Royal Forest. This theory is looking good.

3. Jeffrey Dahmer. The name Dahmer comes from the German Dahme. Its the name of a river, town and district (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahme-Spreewald) in the Brandenburg state. The Dahme river is a tributary of the Spree. It forms many lakes in the northern part of the district.
Assuming the many lakes in this part of the district makes the land here marshy then it looks like your theory may be right again.

4. Albert Fish. It might work here if we cast the net a bit further (excuse the pun), to include wildlife that dwell in wild watery places. Also fish could relate to hunting, i.e. fishing, in or near marshes. A maybe.

5. Andrei Chikatilo. Sorry can't find my Russian-English dictionary and online translators are no good so until we find the meaning of the root to his name can't say anything.

6. Joachim Kroll. Kroll has two possible origins. One explanation give this name an origin related to king. But I was suprised to read that another explanation is "groll" which means grassy bank.

7. Dennis Rader. This one is tough. It has two meanings, one is occupational meaning wheelwright, flour sifter or army counselor. The other is habitational, belonging to the places Rödern, Röderau or one of various places in Germany and Austria named Rode. Need to know more specifically which place if it is the latter.

8. John George Haigh. Derives (http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/haigh-family-crest.htm) from Old English Haga, Old Norse Hagi, Norman La Hague meaning "dweller by the haw".

9. Javed Iqbal Mughal. Javed = eternal, Iqbal = prosperity, Mughal = from Mughal dynasty, Turkic ruling family with Mongol roots. Family names dont seem to be hereditary here as they are commonly found throughout south asian and muslim communities. However after reading his wikipedia entry there seems to be doubts that he was responsible. This is disputed now because 26 of the children he claimed to have killed were found alive after his death. The case stands officially closed but allegedly not well investigated.
This case doesn't apply here.

10. Ted Bundy. A variant of Bond. From the ME Bunda meaning peasant farmer. Probably ultimately derived from OE buende, a dweller. Of course Farmers farm on various types of land including barren land and valleys, and a farmer is a type of tamer or cultivator of wild land. Given its specifically a peasant farmer then i assume it wouldn't be the best land they would be farming.

So out of the 9 examples (I'm excluding Javed Iqbal since his name isn't hereditary and since there is doubt towards his guilt), your theory is correct for 6 of them, (De Rais, Chase, Dahmer, Kroll, Haigh and Bundy) maybe for one (Fish) and need more information for the other two (Chikatilo and Rader).
Not bad, you may be onto something there.

[cstewart1987]

whats my last name mean?

[trappedinameatsuit]

[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest

Similar to my first name, which means of the forest or forest dweller. :eek:
I haven't killed anyone, I don't think.

[cathar]

Herman Mudgett:Dweller in or near a swamp...Mudgett,using an alies Dr.Holmes {dweller on an island in a stream} built a World"s Fair Hotel near the 1893 Chicago World"s Fair complete with a gas chamber,dissection table,and crematorium.He lured women to his "hotel"/considered one of America's first serial killers.He sold the skeletons of his victims for medical studies
Prenderghast:dweller in the priest's deep glen..this man assassinated the mayer of Chicago during the fair...
Lenard Lake,,LAKE : dweller at a dried-up water course in the moors..Lernard Lake video taped his murders in California with his partner in crime ,Charles Ng,,Ng means crow in chinese...strangly enough,birds enter the picture in that some of the "evil" names mean dweller in a grove of trees frequented by this or that type of bird.

Lee : Dweller at an open place in the wood...this name is often a middle name..Henry LEE lucas,,I can't remember them all.

Curmugeon;a bad tempered,cantankerous,difficult person..this is related to Mudgen:dweller in or near a swamp...{in my opinion]

[cathar]

Mr. Stewart...you can google "stewart/last name meaning" and click on ancestry.com ....most American last names are listed there...

Just because a person's last name IS Swamp related doesn't mean they are inclined towards the dark side...Terence McKenna said that the more he looked into history ,the more it looked like a well written novel...History/reality is lite up like a Christmas tree with coencedence and syncronisity..

Let's take just one example...Lee Harvey Oswald..Lee has already been covered above,Harvey means:decendant of Harvey [bitter,carnage-worthy]..Oswald:dweller in,or near,the eastern forest...most people believe that Oswald wasn't the shooter,but he was in on it...and "HISTORY" and the controlled Main stream Media is trying to make Oswald the historical lone gun man...so basically Lee Harvey Oswald is a tripple whammy as far as this last names theory goes...make sense?

[cathar]

Rader:one who came from Raden [moor; reedy place ] in Germany..Dennis Rader of Kansas,known as the BTK killer;.Bind,Torture, Kill..
RAID:a sudden attack or assault.
RAIDER:a person or THING that RAIDS

[cathar]

A popular loan-name among Roman men was Silvanus,which developed from the Roman god of "uncultivated land beyond the boundaries of tillage." A man with the name Silvanus was depicted as "uncanny and dangerous."

When an otherwise tame pet dog suddenly runs amuk and attacks people [usually a small child] biologists call it "reversion"...the dog REVERTS to his wild ,undomesticated nature...

from New Dictionary of American Family Names..by Eldon Smith the following>>>>
>>> Slaughter [English] Dweller at,or near,a muddy place or slough; One who came from Slaughter [muddy place] in Gloucestershire; one who killed animals,a butcher.

Does it not follow that a person who isn't squemish about killing animals for a living might "REVERT" and possible become a murderer...or do the forces of darkness ie:the Archons written about in the Nag Hamadi Library Chose these people to posses?????

[cathar]

BOYS DON'T CRY,the film that Hilary Swank won the Oscar for was based on a true story.One of the murderer's last name was Lotter..Lotter means :A ne'er-do-well or one good-for-nothing..
Lottman:One who came from Lotte[muddy water] in Germany.
from New Dictionary of American Family Names by Elsdon C. Smith

[cathar]

Arthur Shawcross:the Genessee River Serial Killer in Rochester ,New York
Shawcross[Eng]..Dweller by the cross in the GROVE.

[cathar]

Cristopher SPEIGHT,suspect in the slaying of 8 in Virginia on Wednesday,surrenders..

Speight[english]:One who came from Speke[brushwood],in Lancashire; one thought to possess the characteristics of a woodpecker..the name Speight has the same meaning as Speck,as in Richard Speck,killer of 8 student nurses in Chicago in the 1960's. Speck died in 1991 in prison.

OK..same exact last name meaning,same number of victims,both were rampages..odd coincedence of spelling of Sp"EIGHT" [8]..Speight

Friday Jan.22,2010 Main Stream Newspaper

[tawnyraja]

BLAIR means plains dweller or battlefield......:D

[cathar]

Icke:Decendant of Yeo or Iko,or of Hick,a pet form of Richard.[rule,hard]
[alex]...Jones:The son of Jone,the Welsh pronunciation of John[gracious gift of Jehovah]
[terence] McKenna:The son of the man beloved of Aodh[fire],the fire god.
[clif]..High: Dweller on the high place,such as an eminence or hill.

These are all good names according to my research...the high ground is where you want to be,high and dry.....not the low ground ,where water can create dampness and rot..
...RUST NEVER SLEEPS...

[cathar]

SPECK>>>>>Specker: One who came from Specken[swampy place] in Germany.

SPECTER [1] a visable incorporeal spirit,especially one of a terrifying nature:ghost,phantom,apparition [2] some object or source of terror or dread.

Did Phil Spector become his last name?

[ach76]

Another strange dynamic to this Last Name Meaning business is that many of the gun fighters of the old west have last names that originated in West Riding in Yorkshire,which is where some of the battles between the Scots and Crown armies took place.The battle that the Stewart forces lost {Bonnie Prince Charly}resulted in the deportation of many on the losing side to America.So you see where I'm going with this...Racial memory? Fighting spirit in the DNA? There is something going on here but I haven't got all the puzzle pieces put together..
I do know that ghosts tend to inhabit wet areas more than dry areas...so I'm thinking some sort of generational spirit possesion.I do think that the worst sort of killers are possesed because the nature of some of their crimes is "beyond belief" What other explaination is there.


Hope you'll expand further on this extremely interesting subject

Like you, I believe there is something going on, threading its way through lives, largely unsuspected yet powerful and disturbing

And there's confirmation of the various threads you've woven

For example, as you say, it's believed that low-lying, swampy regions (including other watery locations) are a powerful attractant to spirits/ghosts, etc. T.C. Lethbridge appeared to be of this opinion. In fact, it may well be that these entities require water or humidity in order to manifest and/or to provide them energy --- perhaps even as an adjunct to their own awareness


Jung concluded that spirits are only able to define themselves via the living (which provides more food for thought than we have years to ponder), so perhaps it's the living, in fact, who are in some way 'activated' via vicinity to water (swamps/marshes etc) and thus gain their awareness of spirits/ghosts and related phenomena

The ancient Greeks warned that reclaimed land and swampy, marshy places are extremely unhealthy (and cause of many conditions, i.e., cancer) for humans and animals alike

I suspect the same could be said about subterranean water and particularly 'crossings' of underground streams and rivers, etc. For instance, some may remember the mysterious and numerous road accidents a couple of decades ago in (I think) Holland, for which no logical cause could be found. The road was quite new, multi-carriageway and well-designed and constructed, yet numerous motorists drove off the road (at approx. the same location) into surrounding ditches, often with fatal results. Finally, after all possible causes had been exhaustively explored, investigators researched an 'unscientific', possible explanation. Beneath the road, they discovered, two and possibly more underground rivers intersected. They speculated that the energies released by this may have the power to disrupt human concentration (or cause altered-states of consciousness), resulting in the accidents (see T.C. Lethbridge for more on this).

Another possible explanation offered was that people were leaving the road to follow an ancient trackway which had once lain beneath the new road, the remnants of which 'branched off' and headed in a different direction to the new road at approximately the point where so many accidents had occurred -- despite that those involved in accidents had not been alive when the old trackway had been in use hundreds of years earlier


Malachi Martin, I believe, made reference to 'generational spirit possession' in his book, 'Hostage to the Devil' which was devoted to 'possession' and exorcism

So, numerous elements: generational spirit possession and/or hauntings, paranormal phenomena; physical/psychical violence and horror; specific locations, particularly water/swamp/marsh/low-lying areas; family-names connected with some or all the above

All well deserving of serious research and investigation, imo.

Perhaps life is not the blank-slate we imagine it to be ... ?

[ach76]

Almost everyone has heard by now of the 'middle name Wayne' phenomenon

If not, people around the world have been at a loss to explain the fact that an extensive list of murderers bearing the middle name of 'Wayne' not only exists, but continues to grow !

For the list, please see this link:
http://www.newsoftheweird.com/wayne.html

and for more recent additions to the list, see here:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/the-middle-name-wayne-strikes-again/


Wayne ? Why should it feature so often in connection with crime, often horrific crime ?

Interdimensional tricksters (i.e. 'jinn') having fun ?

Or could it be the 'value' of the letters contained within 'Wayne' ?

I have no idea

[cathar]

wanion [noun] Archiac. curse;vengeance [1540-50];alternative of waniand ME:preposition of wanien,to wane from the phase in the waniand [mone] in the time of the waning [moon] i.e.,in an unlucky hour.
wayless:lacking a road or path: a wayless jungle.
way lay..to intercept or attack from ambush,as in order to rob,seize,or kill
wanton[1]done maliciously or without motive:wanton creulity[2]without regard to what is right.
wangle:to bring about or obtain by scheming or underhanded methods.

[morethanatheory]

Jesus christ they are evil people.

Can't believe I actually read that list.

[cathar]

Last name meanings of the two suspects arrested for the murder of Herman Rockefeller.
Denny: One who came from Denny[wet land] or from Denny [Dane's Island] in Cambridgeshire.
Shembri:[Maltese].denoting a kind of lemon/ or perhaps from the Italian Shembro 'mackerel'

[cathar]

In an interview on Coast to Coast AM years ago Malachi Martin said that certain rich families {mostly Dutch } in the New York City area were inclined to have generational spirit possession...Holland is also known as the lowlands...many canals & dykes to keep the ocean at bay...

[cathar]

this thread is over as far as I'm concerned...I have no more ideas to put into it.
maybe someone will see it and run with it,,put it into a book or whatever..The Gnostics believed that there will be a great battle between the forces of light the forces of darkness...I believe that & I also believe these "swamp" names are related in some way to the forces of darkness/evil....I once thought there was something in the Bible that went "By their names shall they be known",,,but I've looked for it there & can't find it...maybe I just dreamed it..........I'm not a Christian myself,,I'm a Gnostic,a Cathar ,and I hope this thread has done some good.

[cathar]

Dean Corll ,with assistance from Elmer Wayne Henley & David Brooks ,killed at least 27 boys between 1970 & 73..in Houston ,Texas..Corll,known as the "Candy Man" was born in Ft. WAYNE ,Indiana...
The meaning of Corll is not known.Dean means : Dweller in the valley or woodland pasture.
Elmer Wayne Henely went by his middle name Wayne {see above post concerning WAYNE}
Henley: One who came from Henley[wood frequented by wild birds]
David BROOKS:Dweller near the spring ,brook,or marsh..
Brookland: Dweller in the marshy land.

[cathar]

Marilyn Manson,the self proclaimed antichrist of rock///birth name Brian Warner
Warner:an officer employed to watch over game in a park.
Warne:one who came from Wawne [quaking bog] in the East Riding of Yorkshire,Dweller in ,or near,a swamp.
Band members last names are Striethorst & Putesky...
Horst:Dweller in a thicket//Streitfeld:field of battle or contest//this is closest names found..
Putesky..unknown//closest names are Putt,Putter,Puttman:Dweller in a pit or hollow.
Wawne sounds similar to Wayne,,see earlier posts concerning Wayne

[coco]

For example, as you say, it's believed that low-lying, swampy regions (including other watery locations) are a powerful attractant to spirits/ghosts, etc. T.C. Lethbridge appeared to be of this opinion. In fact, it may well be that these entities require water or humidity in order to manifest and/or to provide them energy --- perhaps even as an adjunct to their own awareness


Jung concluded that spirits are only able to define themselves via the living (which provides more food for thought than we have years to ponder), so perhaps it's the living, in fact, who are in some way 'activated' via vicinity to water (swamps/marshes etc) and thus gain their awareness of spirits/ghosts and related phenomena

The ancient Greeks warned that reclaimed land and swampy, marshy places are extremely unhealthy (and cause of many conditions, i.e., cancer) for humans and animals alike

I suspect the same could be said about subterranean water and particularly 'crossings' of underground streams and rivers, etc. For instance, some may remember the mysterious and numerous road accidents a couple of decades ago in (I think) Holland, for which no logical cause could be found. The road was quite new, multi-carriageway and well-designed and constructed, yet numerous motorists drove off the road (at approx. the same location) into surrounding ditches, often with fatal results. Finally, after all possible causes had been exhaustively explored, investigators researched an 'unscientific', possible explanation. Beneath the road, they discovered, two and possibly more underground rivers intersected. They speculated that the energies released by this may have the power to disrupt human concentration (or cause altered-states of consciousness), resulting in the accidents (see T.C. Lethbridge for more on this).

So, numerous elements: generational spirit possession and/or hauntings, paranormal phenomena; physical/psychical violence and horror; specific locations, particularly water/swamp/marsh/low-lying areas; family-names connected with some or all the above

All well deserving of serious research and investigation, imo.

Perhaps life is not the blank-slate we imagine it to be ... ?


Forgive the edit but I wanted to point focus to those particular thoughts.

I find your remarks fascinating as I was far more empathic when I lived in West Central Florida near the gulf. I now live in another state which only has a southern coast but I am well north of that in a land locked area. There is a large lake but I live several miles away from it.

Living my life in Florida near both salt and fresh water I had a greater empathic sense. Where I am now, it is reduced.

I have been researching now and again the subject of salt water and the warm, humid, often statically charged atmosphere and how it affects psychic and/or empathic ability - or if I'm just chasing some half baked idea. But I cannot help but notice the reduction of ability in myself since my move.

Finding literature on this has been difficult. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right places. You mentioned Lethbridge. I am unfamiliar with that person but I must agree with his suspicions as personal experiences mandate.

Thank you. :)

[cathar]

William Calley gave the orders for the My Lai massacre of villiagers ,men,women,& children...in Viet Nam ..sargent,US Army,now married & living in California
Calley: One who came from Cailly [forest] in Normandy...

[cathar]

Curious meanings about "GOOD" names
Howe,Howes,How[english]Descendent of How,a variant of Hugh[spirit,mind]..dweller on,or near,a promontory,one who came from Howe[hill]
both spirit,mind names and "high" names are related...They are the opposite of low & damp...
Examples of "THE DIFFERENCE" in expressions...You're all WET/We're not out of the WOODS yet/Low down and dirty/How low can you go/down in the dumps/muddy the waters

High and dry/Take the High Road/ High minded,

Examples of names that mean SPIRIT,MIND
Howell,Howe,Howey,Hugh,Hutchins,Huck,there are many more
Examples of "High" names>Hill,Hillman,Hillis,Hilton,many more also

[coco]

Most interesting and bright turn to also study names with a positive connotation. :)

[cathar]

Bonnie & Clyde
Parker :One in charge of a park for the lord of the manor.
Barrow : One who came from Barrow [wood] the name of several places in England.

[cathar]

Zangara:[Italian].Dweller on mire or in a swampy place.
On Feb.15th,1933 Guiseppi Zangara ,an unemployed bricklayer,attempted to assassinate
Pres.Franklin Roosevelt in Miami,Florida...He missed,but shot 5 other people ,including the mayor of Miami,who later died.Zangara was executed March 20th,1933.
....Had he been successful,John Nance Garner of Texas,would have become president..Garner is famous for his quote "The office of the Vice president isn't worth a
bucket of warm piss"..That was the real quote,,but it was changed to "warm spit" later.

[coco]

Cathar, where are you retreiving this information from? I would like to look at my maiden and current name, as I kept my ex husband's name.

[cathar]

@ Coco...New Dictionary of American Family Names by Elsdon Smith can be found in
most good libraries in the reference section...
Also;You can google ">name/yours?/last name meaning/ancestry.com"....

[coco]

Thank you very much!

P.S. For a first post, this is a very good one. :)

[cathar]

Thank You Coco,I wrote a letter to the writer Colin Wilsonin 1980.I told him everything
I had discovered at that point..I recieved a reply telling me he would file it in his Manson file...end of story...It gradually dawned on me that this idea is politically incorrect...
but I still think it could be used in police work.......But the problem is "demonic possession" is a forbidden subject...

[chrysoprase]

Out of curiousity, I opened this thread wondering if the name Wood was included in the list. The Wood's are in my family tree, and while I don't know if any of them committed murder - I do know they are BAD and I have had suspicions that some of them are slightly insane.

Wood
Main Entry: 1wood
Pronunciation: \ˈwüd, ˈwōd, ˈwu̇d\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English wōd insane; akin to Old High German wuot madness

Wood

noun
a thick growth of trees; forest or grove


So I just did a little search:

EL PASO -- Convicted serial killer David Leonard Wood led a troubled life marked by anger, frustration and perhaps even a learning disability.

Wood, 52, has been on death row for 17 years. The state plans to execute him Aug. 20 for the 1987 murders of six girls and young women in the desert outside El Paso. Police also suspected Wood in the disappearances of three other teenage girls, all of whom vanished in 1987.


Thirty-four-year-old Christopher Wood, police say, slashed some of his family members to death. Then he shot himself. Wood murdered his 5 and 4-year-old sons, his 2-year-old daughter, and his 33-year-old wife, Francie Billotti-Wood. Frederick County, MD Sheriff Charles Jenkins called the scene "horrific," and stated that "No one should ever have to be exposed to this."



It was in Walker, Michigan in 1987 where a pair of lesbians made death a sexual game. Gwendolyn Gail Graham, 23, and Catherine May Wood, 24, worked together at the Alpine Manor Nursing Home. Graham was a nurse's aide and Wood was her immediate superior. Wood had divorced and gained an enormous amount of weight, so she was hungry for a friend. When she met Graham, they immediately hit it off and soon became lovers. It was Graham who first broached the subject of murder. They practiced sexual asphyxia to achieve greater orgasms, so Wood later claimed she thought Graham was kidding. Yet the linked pain and pleasure of their sexual games became threaded with the idea of cruelty. Just talking about murder got them both excited. They started killing patients in January and continued for three months, picking patients to kill whose initials would end up spelling "murder."

The grisly murder of Jeralee Underwood was the final crime in James Wood's lifetime career of armed robbery, kidnapping, rape, and murder. Not until the Underwood case, which brought terror to a close-knit Idaho community, did crime experts begin to piece together a detailed profile of Wood's depraved personality and successfully hunt him down. Unlike other serial killers, Wood acted purely on impulse, to strike out the instincts of a bloodthirsty predator

The Johnson County Missouri prosecutor in Warrensburg, Missouri, has charged Raymond Wood with five counts of capital murder. Ray is accused of intentionally murdering his wife and four oldest children on February 14, 2000. He is further charged with aggravated battery on his two youngest children who survived.

Prior to February 2000, Ray had a 15 year history of mental illness and was diagnosed with schizoaffective, bipolar type. For the past three years, he has continued to receive care for his mental illness at a maximum security mental hospital. Two days after the homicides, on February 16, 2000, Ray was involuntarily committed to Fulton State Mental Hospital.



•Carrie Christine Wood, 37, of Lufkin, is charged with conspiracy to commit murder, and murder.


I feel justified not only in keeping my distance from this side of the family; but in my thoughts of some of them being insane. :cool:

[coco]

Here is my maiden name. I retained my married name for obvious reasons.

Butts Surname Origin

Butts were marks for archery. In most parishes places were set apart for this necessary sport which were called 'the Butts,'--hence, the name was given to a person residing near such a spot, as 'John at the Butts.' But signifies a promontory, as the Butt of Lewis, an isle of Scotland. Danish, But, blunt, rough.

Butt is a name which since the 17th Century had been very popular in Devonshire and Cornwall and has been spelled variously as Butts, Butson and Butting, the latter two meaning "son of But". It is a topographical name, derived from the Middle English "but", meaning mark for archery, target or goal, ultimately from the Old French "but", aim, target. Hence, Butt has come to describe an individual who lived near the archery butts, or perhaps who was himself an archer. Topographical surnames were among the earliest created, since both natural and man-made features in the landscape provided easily recognisable distinguishing names in the small communities of the Middle Ages. Interesting namebearer, recorded in the "Dictionary of National Biography", include the vicar, George Butt (1741 - 1795), who was appointed Chaplain to King George 111 in 1783, and Sir Charles Parker Butt (1830 - 1892), who in 1883 was appointed Justice of the High Court and Knighted. Recordings from Devonshire Church Registers include: the christening of William Butt on March 29th 1544, in South Tawton, and the marriage of Mary Butt and Henry Conant on May 2nd 1610, at St. Mary's in Offery. A Coat of Arms granted to a family of the name is a silver shield, two red torteaux in chief and a red mullet in base, a blue chief nebulee, the Crest being a lion holding in the dexter paw a spear broken. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Walter But, which was dated 1114 - 1130, in the "Court Rolls of Ramsey", Essex, during the reign of King Henry 1, known as "The Lion of Justice", 1100 - 1135. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

---------------

I will say this, my dad and his relatives are helluva shots, even the women. I did not inherit that sharp skill. I can only hit large objects, ie: the broad side of a barn.

[chrysoprase]

I will say this, my dad and his relatives are helluva shots, even the women. I did not inherit that sharp skill. I can only hit large objects, ie: the broad side of a barn.


:p You so funny, coco! You always make me smile:):)

*****

My mother comes from the Wood family. From the time I was a child, I always felt that she wanted to murder me - and that the only reason she didn't was out of fear of being caught.

A few years ago she told me that she used to fantasize about chopping off my arms and legs when I was a teenager. (I was not too shocked to hear this) I calmly asked "Why"?

She said in a really sarcastic voice "because you were so smart and so pretty IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR????!!!!"

On about 4 separate occasions (the most recent being last month) - My whole family has tried to manipulate arrangements that I move in with her. By crippling me financially, or by trying to take advantage of a distressed situation I was in.

Last month my mother called me (unbeknownst to me - my father was listening in on the conversation - and he lives hundreds of miles away from my mother).

My mother said that she and my father might help me with my mortgage. That they would catch me up with my payments and even pay it down some. She said that they would put my house in their name. I said "why do that?" She did not answer. She asked me how much I owed. When I told her - she was surprised. She said "Is that all? I thought you owed more?" And then the deal was off. They would only help me if I owed more??? And if I allowed them to put it in their names??? Uhhhh, no thanks.


Every one of them, sister, brother, father and mother (for years) have constantly hinted (in every conversation) how nice it would be for me to move in with mom. That it would even be "fun". It has been so exasperating. Why would they want me to live with a woman who they know hates and bullies me??? I would rather live on the streets.

I always knew my mother and older sister hated me. They really go out of their way to express this. My younger brother and father were more stealthy about their feelings and I always had hope that one day they might take my side on any given dispute. But they, too, are sadistic.

A common modus operandi of my mother's was to beat me (where it wouldn't show) and berate me right before an important day for me when I would be in the public or have attention on me. And then, in front of other people she would pretend to be sooooo nice. I remember one of the my school friends even saying that "your mother is so nice". I hated that so much.

One time on Christmas morning my mother and father beat me so badly (for no reason) that my sister ended up taking me to the hospital. I was told to lie about what happened. I said I got roller skates for Christmas and tried to skate downhill. The Doctor was real quiet about this obvious lie and just did his job.

Another time my father (not a Wood - but still weird) kept on beating me with a belt until I made my face expressionless. "Wipe that look off of your face or I won't stop". It was so ridiculous. I asked him if he wanted me to have a pleasant look on my face and he said "YES".

And whenever I told my father about something my mother did, he always answered the same way "she is only trying to help you".


I have come to totally accept all of this. I really does not hurt me in the slightest anymore. But it is sooo frustrating to have any conversation with them. It is like talking to the devil - you cannot win.

***

So that is why I opened this thread to see if "Wood" was listed.....BINGO!

[coco]

I'm sorry to hear this. We can't choose family, but friends are a family we can choose.

I too have a manipulating woman for a mother but not in the same way as you. Two faced at times, manipulating, mixed messaged, presumptuous. Believe it or not I love her but I don't like her.

[chrysoprase]

I know what you mean about loving but not liking, coco.

I think anyone with a heart loves their family, no matter what.

Honestly, though, I cannot say I love my mother. I think any love I felt for my family has dissolved over the years. If I ever heard that my mother died - I think I would just be relieved. I know that sounds awful - but it is true.

And yet, I do care about her. I want her to be happy and have a good life. But part of me wonders if that is only for selfish reasons. I always thought that if she was happy - she would be nicer.


I was thinking more about last names. On my mother's side is not only Wood, but also the name Hood.

And on my father's side it is an Italian last name that I was told meant a combination of opposites - or to appear as something opposite of what it is. That kind of describes him.

I was unable to do much of a genealogy search on my fathers side. But on my mother's side, I traced ancestors back to the beggining of time (or time as we know it). I think that maybe she cannot help who she is. It is like there is something missing there.

I felt so bad after writing my last post here. Like I had betrayed my family somehow, ruined the thread, or possibly made any readers uncomfortable. I wanted to erase it - but decided to just leave it. I think that is how abuse works sometimes. There is a sense of loyalty that maybe is not deserved and a feeling of not wanting to make anyone uncomfortable.

[cathar]

@ Chrysoprase..Thank you for your posts...glad you deceided not to delete...
Envey can be a motive for murder or character assassination...My younger brother is a sociopath & takes every opportunity to spread lies about me..After my parents died I cut all ties to both my brothers.I didn't understand what a sociopath was until I read THE SOCIOPATH NEXT DOOR by Martha Stout..My whole life would have been different had I known what a sociopath was at age 18...
My whole reason for joining this forum was to post this thread.I didn't intend to stay around but I changed my mind after reading some of the other threads...There are lots of intelligent people on this forum.I had read 5 or 6 of Icke's books ,but I'm not a fast typist & the internet is relatively new to me.
Anyway,I'm hoping this last names /Nature of Evil idea will spread.Maybe someone will see it & weave it into a book of fiction or whatever...
Or maybe someone will read it and decide not to get married to a Morton ,Wood,or whoever...People are like layers of an onion,,,what lies beneath is just as important as what's on the surface...even more so.

[chrysoprase]

Or maybe someone will read it and decide not to get married to a Morton ,Wood,or whoever

Now THAT made me laugh:D

I have had the book The Sociopath Next Door on my bookshelf for years - unread. Somewhere in this forum someone mentioned it. So I dusted it off and gave it a read. I wish I had read it earlier, too. It would have saved me alot of grief and effort.

Sorry about your brother. Character assassination is diffiicult. <understatement>

My older sister is real good at doing that, too. It took me forever to figure out that my parents believed her - because they WANTED TO believe her. I was always fighting against it trying to get the truth out....

Aye..... yeah..... I wish I had read that book earlier.... it would have given me a few years of knowing what I was dealing with, and the futility of trying to make things right.

Keep typing... it will get easier all the time. And maybe you should be the one to write the book. ;)

Thanks for this thread, cathar - it has been cathartic for me - get it?:)

[rhydra]

Mine was nicked from a duke in France who was captured and his eldest daughter was forced to marry one of my ancestors. :D

[coco]

chrysoprase, you had something large and burdening to get off your chest. You haven't ruined anything. Cathar's great thread just triggered your feelings to burst forth here, with compassionate, empathetic people. :) You're NOT alone, and don't ever feel that you are. I think this is a good medicine for us.

And yes, I know what you mean about the probably feeling relieved when the day comes. I had very mixed feelings and great guilt when my grandmother passed. I was mournful and relieved at the same time. I felt like a horrible person for feeling relieved. I hated myself and felt as if I was very evil. Truth is, my grandmother was demanding, narrow minded, spoiled, unappreciating, over bearing woman. Rarely was anything, anything at all up to her standards. She very critical. We walked on eggs around her to maintin peace as much as possible.

I've never once confessed in so many words that I felt a sense of relief but I can tell you that her husband married his mistress 6 months after the funeral and my father seemed unaffected by her passing so I guess I wasn't the only one with that feeling. I'm the only one who has come closest to actually confessing by saying the world has been a bit quieter since her passing - but only to my father, her son.


cathar, I'm glad you decided to stick around. :) There are some great minds posting here. It really is educational, enlightening, fun, and thought provoking.

[coco]

Mine was nicked from a duke in France who was captured and his eldest daughter was forced to marry one of my ancestors. :D

There is royalty amongst us! :D

[cathar]

Wilson is an interesting name ...The Beach Boys ,Brian,Dennis & Carl Wilson.
Heart,rock band from the pacific NW ,,2 Wilson sisters are the creative force
Alabama,a country band with lots of hits,,3 Wilson Brothers
Colin Wilson..the great & very prolific UK writer.There are alot more Wilsons ..I can't think of them right now.
Wilson:The son of Will[pet form of William]helmet,resolution...

[chrysoprase]

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/benparr/m58WzKxrV6M9ZUHO9hHTByjgqfvD32y3qrDzV6oIqO4UJhX87E rBfvcmUTqx/sea-otter.jpg

:D:);)

[cathar]

@ Chrysoprase/////

Wood[Eng] Dweller in,or near,a grove or dense growth of trees; a WILD or FRENZIED MAN,.:eek::eek:
Much of England was still thickly wooded even in districts that had long been settled during surname times.
from New Dictionary of American Family Names by Elsdon Smith

[chrysoprase]

Uh-oh!!!:eek:

Yeah, in particular, I have heard stories about my great grandpa Wood. He was wild AND frenzied. His wife was a Cherokee woman whom he kidnapped and took several states away. She did stay with him (I don't think she felt she had a choice or option or no means of escape). In fact it wasn't until her 60's that she was reunited with a family member (her sister).

A lot of this family history has been written down. Including him saying that Pirl (his wife) was like a dog. He could beat her and she would still run to him with her tail wagging.

He was murdered in the end during a robbery. Poor bastard. There are others in the family tree currently alive and long dead who were just as mean. But... some of them are really nice and loving. I just talked to my Aunt today. She is ostracized by her brothers and sisters and lives far away.

But as sweet as could be. Even though I haven't seen her in 25+ years, she always sends me little notes and cards, telling me that she loves me.

Anyways.... just in case.... Don't marry a Wood!!

Also, cathar... there are several Hoods in my family tree. Don't you think that is creepy?

[cathar]

Hood isn't really a "bad" name,,it means someone who made head coverings...
also,descendent of Hood or Hud,a pet form of Richard,and of Hugh[spirit,mind] so it is a good name actually...

[chrysoprase]

Ah, okay. When I was a kid it made me think of Robin Hood.;)

But more recently, I thought of hooded dark figures.... in the woods... performing rituals:eek:


How about your last name?

[cathar]

I had a Swedish last name that I never liked,,so I changed it after my parents died...
My mother's famliy tree is amazing...she was related to the Harrisons of Virginia ,and Eleanor of Aquataine....also Elvis' mother's family...Roky Erickson,the lead singer of the 13th Floor Elevators ,is my 4th cousin...Eleanor of Aquatain's father was one of the early troubadour poets/songwriters...he was a Gnostic,as were all the troubadours,,,
The German branch can trace their family back to the Black Death...

more than yo wanted to know,,right?

[chrysoprase]

No. lol. I think that is very interesting, cathar!

[cathar]

@ Chrysoprase,,,maybe this thread can be turned into a "Weird but true stories from one's family tree" & keep it going that way ?????

[chrysoprase]

I have a feeling you have some doozies to tell. I am all ears. You can start here - or make a new thread...

If you do make a new thread - tell me where it is!:D

[coco]

Farmers.

That would be my family history. They came from the British Isles, mostly from England but there was talk some may have came from Wales or Scotland. Some rumors hold there is some Scandinavian blood in the family. Prior to that the story says my ancestors were in Germany.

When they came to America from Britain, they headed straight for the Appalachians to get away from.......well, I guess traditional British influence prevalent in the established colonies. They were a poor people and they farmed and hunted.

Believe it or not my great grandfather's brother broke the cycle and worked in a tile factory in Kentucky. He was considered well off as he had a tidy house in town and a TV set.

My great grandfather stayed a farmer until he died. He refused to use anything but a mule drawn plow and manual tools. It was what he was used to.

He had three daughters, no sons. He worked the girls in the fields as hard as he would a son, the girls also had to learn to cook, sew, knit, crochet, quilt, can, dry fruits, make breads, dress chickens and cattle. They used the wood burning stove my great grandmother used until she died in the 1980's.

The two elder daughters married well and did not have to do farm work afterward, my grandmother married a second or third cousin who coal mined and then turned to auto mechanics.

My blood grandfather was a violent drunkard who would hit my grandmother and my father. He would spend most of his wage on booze.

When my father was 16, the tables were turned. Dad waited until his father was drunk and beating on my grandmother. He them took out a pipe he hid in his chest of drawers and beat the hell out of his father. His father tried to round house Dad but Dad beat the hell out of him again. His dad was drunk and didn't know when to stop so Dad threw him down the stairs of the apartment building they all lived in in Florida. They moved to Florida as part of the WWII Florida migration - looking for a better jobs, etc.

Really it wasn't the later part of the mid 20th century that my family has become modernized and better educated, finally breaking that cycle it has been caught in for hundreds of years.

I'm the product of a 'mixed' marriage. Dad married a woman who is not family. My mother was born up North in fact. Skinny, tall, not a good cook, cannot sew or quilt or can or knit. She wore short skirts and make up. She was a practicing Catholic at the time (but no more). Dad's family was furious about his choice of wife. He's not been too happy for several years either. :D

After my birth, Dad's family consoled him with the hope of a son next time. Dad made it clear he couldn't afford what he had and got a vasectomy much to his family's dismay.

I've visited those people so far back in the hills and mountains of Eastern Kentucky. In the 1970's many still didn't have indoor toilets, running water inside their homes. They pumped water from wells and bathed in big metal tubs in their homes. They still sewed many of their clothes.

I never saw evidence of President Johnson's new society or whatever he called it.

[cathar]

My Great,Great etc. grandfather was a classmate of Karl Marx in gymnasium [high school]
in SW Germany ..My gfather was a math wizard & Marx was into literature..very bright & obnoxious,,One night he and some fellow students were at the house of a professor playing cards,chess,whatever when Marx comes into the house & anounces the the great German writer Johanne Goethe has died...Then Marx & the professor go into another room and spend the rest of the evening discussing the ramifications of Goethe's death...My G-Father got a job in a counting house ,& then decieded to enter the Catholic priesthood...the night before he was to be ordained he skipped town & went to America...He followed Marx's carreer in the newspapers ,but always commented that Marx was an ego maniac & a pompous as**ole.etc,,My grandfather had 12 children & there are lots of his desendents walking around Wisconsin & elsewhere...
I 'm starting with the "nice" stories first..but I've got some ugly ones also...

[coco]

Your story indicates your dear G-G-Grandfather had an interesting life. :)

[cathar]

@ Coco...Not really,he was a farmer for most of his life...
Another G,G,G,Grandfather left France around 1812 in a very cold winter,,he made his way to Denmark & in the middle of the night skated across a narrow straite to Sweden..the Baltic was frozen over & the skates were wooden..He got married & lived the rest of his life in Sweden,,,But he must have been running from something..perhaps he deserted Napoleon's army right before the march on Moscow, or some other reason...
He never explained so we don't know...He was a farmer also...His descendants,my grandmother & several of her brothers & sisters left Sweden about 1900 & lived in Chicago,,before getting married & moving to Texas.

[coco]

@ Coco...Not really,he was a farmer for most of his life...
Another G,G,G,Grandfather left France around 1812 in a very cold winter,,he made his way to Denmark & in the middle of the night skated across a narrow straite to Sweden..the Baltic was frozen over & the skates were wooden..He got married & lived the rest of his life in Sweden,,,But he must have been running from something..perhaps he deserted Napoleon's army right before the march on Moscow, or some other reason...
He never explained so we don't know...He was a farmer also...His descendants,my grandmother & several of her brothers & sisters left Sweden about 1900 & lived in Chicago,,before getting married & moving to Texas.

See, that's all interesting: Sweden, The Baltic, France, ancestors traveling to Chicago at the turn of the century - a very exciting time in America.

[cathar]

Have you ever picked cotten ? Farm work is drugery,,, Reading about the past is interesting..
but I'm glad I'm living now...because we are at the end of the age,,,I was always worried I wouldn't live to witness it...less than 2 years away now,,,

[coco]

Have you ever picked cotten ? Farm work is drugery,,, Reading about the past is interesting..
but I'm glad I'm living now...because we are at the end of the age,,,I was always worried I wouldn't live to witness it...less than 2 years away now,,,

No, I have not farmed. My father did as a boy in KY. I think that's why he values conveniences so much. The promises made in the 50's of a bright future, miracle medicines and machines, etc.

Perhaps it's not the 'end'. Yes, perhaps the end of an age, a transition. :)

[cathar]

Coco ,,I've been following the webbot predictions for 6 years ,,,& prediction after prediction has come true...Life will go on..not everyone will die,,,but the transition is going to be dramatic..The webbots predicted that jet planes would stop flying 16 months ago...& the time frame was the vernal equanox of 2010,,,the prediction was 2 weeks off...another prediction was that the oceans are going to get sick/diseased//that is happening now with the gulf oil spll...
www.halfpasthuman.com///or google webbots/youtube/////

[coco]

Hmm, I've heard of webot predictions but haven't looked into it. I will check out your links.

If a transition is forming its future now, and I think it is, prepare your mind and soul.

[chrysoprase]

Coco, your post kind of reminded me of a documentary called "American Hollow" directed by Rory Kennedy (daughter of Robert Kennedy).

If you haven't seen it - I would recommend it. Very interesting. It shows what happened to the people who settled in the Appalachians - and never left. There is something about several generations being isolated between the mountains and cut off from the rest of society - that did not serve them well.

The documentary follows a few families and their ordeals. One of the sons leaves for the city to make a better life for himself - but ends up returning. Very sad. Xenophobia and a lack of education, imagination or stimulation, fresh ideas (as well as nutrition - I think) has doomed these modern day hillbillies.

Glad your family got out Coco. It really is a shame though, as the Appalachians are beautiful. I also saw a PBS series about the history of the area - very interesting. Hmmm, Loretta Lynn's biography "Coal Miners Daughter" is also very good. (Maybe I am more interested in this than you are though.... don't know why....?? Probably the strangeness of the people and the folklore of the area.)




Cathar... I think you are probably just warming up.... so I will save my comments for later. Take your time, friend!;)

[coco]

Thank you for the suggestion. I haven't heard of that doco. You mentioned Coal Miner's Daughter - I have seen it twice! It reminded me so much of my own paternal grandmother and her folks.

I had no idea that the folks who live waay back in the mountains were even noticed today. Like I said without exaggeration, in the 1970's when I visited up there, some folks still used out houses and drew water from wells as they did not have indoor plumbing either by choice or perhaps they could not afford it. Some folks really did still cook on wood burning stoves, again by choice or for financial reasons.

Some of the folks married out of the area and their children have had the opportunity to finish high school, some of graduated college. My father finished high school but never attended college. He simply didn't want to and with my arrival early in his adulthood, he had no time.

I will say Dad, as a 'break out' person from that culture has done alright. He has 'modernized' himself pretty much, but one can only do so much in one lifetime, in one generation. I'm a little bit further along than he as a generation completely removed from that culture and the product of a marriage that is 'mixed'; one parent from the mountains, one from Indiana farmland but grew up in a Florida city.

Thank you again for the suggestion. It intrigues me. :)

[cathar]

Hmm, I've heard of webot predictions but haven't looked into it. I will check out your links.

If a transition is forming its future now, and I think it is, prepare your mind and soul.

@Coco...the new ALTA report is out at www.halfpasthuman.com..
ALTA stands for asemitrical language trend analysis...it is predicting that 1&1/2 billion people will pass away in the next 19 months as a result of ill winds & other consequences from the oil spill...I wouldn't bet on it NOT happening...the webbots have been extremely accurate over the last 10 years...:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[cathar]

Dennis Hopper,,[Think Frank Booth in Blue Velvet]
Hopper: One who lived on the raised or inclosed land in the midst of a marsh;//or :One who danced at fairs and festivals;;;;

let's face it ,,Dennis was not a nice person.

[cathar]

Natalee Holoway suspect in second murder sought in Peru

Joran Van der Sloot//last name means "dweller near a reedy ditch or quagmire"

[coco]

@Coco...the new ALTA report is out at www.halfpasthuman.com..
ALTA stands for asemitrical language trend analysis...it is predicting that 1&1/2 billion people will pass away in the next 19 months as a result of ill winds & other consequences from the oil spill...I wouldn't bet on it NOT happening...the webbots have been extremely accurate over the last 10 years...:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Thank you, I'm intrigued by webbot. :)

It would not surprise me that a great deal of illness occurs as a result of the oil leak: acid rain, oil leaching into the food chain for both meat and vegetable, air contamination. Foreign distributors with lesser quality controls importing more product increasing their market position by filling a gap in the domestic seafood market. Asia already imports seafood but I predict because of the Gulf Coast disaster there will more importing.

In fact, that reminds me of something I received in the mail recently:

BASA FISH

Woolworths and Coles sell this

Many are snatching up the fish at supermarkets as they are very cheap.
The fish looks good but read the article and you will be shocked. This product is from Vietnam.

Do you eat this frozen fish called BASA? ( Pangasius, Vietnamese River Cobbler, White Catfish, Gray Sole)

Industrially farmed in Vietnam along the Mekong River, BASA or Pangas or whatever they're calling it, has only been recently introduced to the French market. However, in a very short amount of time, it has grown in popularity in France. They are very, very affordable (cheap), are sold in fillets with no bones and they have a neutral flavor and texture; many would compare it to cod and sole, only much cheaper. But as tasty as some people may find it, there's, in fact, something hugely unsavory about it. I hope the information provided here will serve as very important information for you and your future choices. Here's why it is better left in the shops and not on your dinner plates:

1. BASAS or Pangas are teeming with high levels of poisons and bacteria. (industrial effluents, arsenic, and toxic and hazardous by-products of the growing industrial sector, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), DDT and its metabolites (DDTs), metal contaminants, chlordane-related compounds (CHLs), hexachlorocyclohexane isomers (HCHs), and hexachlorobenzene (HCB).

The reason is that the Mekong River is one of the most polluted rivers on the planet and this is where basa/pangas are farmed and industries along the river dump chemicals and industrial waste directly into it. Avoid eating them because they contain high amounts of contamination. Regardless of Reports and recommendations against selling them, supermarkets still sell them, knowing full well that they are contaminated.

2. They freeze Basa/Pangas in contaminated river water.

3. BASA/Pangas are raised in Vietnam . Pangas are fed food that comes from Peru ( more on that below), their hormones ( which are injected into the female Pangas ) come from China . ( More about that below ) and finally, they are transported from Vietnam to other countries.

4. There's nothing natural about Basa/Pangas - They're fed dead fish remnants and bones, dried and ground into a flour (from South America), manioc ( cassava ) and residue from soy and grains. This kind of nourishment doesn't even remotely resemble what they eat in nature. But what it does resemble is the method of feeding mad cows ( cows were fed cows, remember? ). What they feed basa/pangas is completely unregulated so there are most likely other dangerous substances and hormones thrown into the mix. The basa/pangas grow 4 times faster than in nature, so it makes you wonder what exactly is in their food? Your guess is as good as mine.

5. Basa/Pangas are injected with Hormones Derived from Urine. They inject female Basa/Pangas with hormones made from the dehydrated urine of pregnant women, the female Pangas grow much quicker and produce eggs faster ( one Basa/Panga can lay approximately 500,000 eggs at one time ). Essentially, they're injecting fish with hormones ( they come all of the way from a pharmaceutical company in China ) to speed up the process of growth and reproduction. That isn't good. And also consider the rest of the reasons to NOT eat BASA.

6. You get what you pay for - and then some. Don't be lured in by insanely cheap price of Basa/Pangas. Is it worth risking your health and the health of your family?

7. Buying Basa/Pangas supports unscrupulous, greedy corporations and food conglomerates that don't care about the health and well-being of human beings. They are only concerned about selling as many basa/pangas as possible to unsuspecting consumers. These corporations only care about making more money at whatever cost to the public..

8. Basa/Pangas WILL make you sick - If you don't get ill with vomiting, diarrhea and effects from severe food poisoning, congratulations, you have an iron stomach! But you're still ingesting POISON not "poisson".

Final important note: Because of the prodigious amount of availability of Basa/Pangas, be warned that they will certainly find their way into other foods like imitation crab sticks, fish sticks, fish terrines, and probably in some pet food too. Just check the Ingredient List to see if Basa is one of the ingredients. Good Luck.

[cathar]

@Coco...according to the Webbots there will be a disporia away from the coastal areas
in the SE States and the eastern seaboard because the fumes {ocean breezes} will start making people sick...The oil despersents are doing their job...the whole thing is the beginning of a de-population agenda by The Powers That BE.....The poor people in the Carribean won't be able to leave,,,,Cuba,Jamaca,Haiti,Central America,Mexico ,etc...if correct over one billion people will die in the next 19 months....the date to watch is July 11th,,,it's a solar eclypse,,,and a major event is predicted to happen....only 5 weeks away...

[coco]

@Coco...according to the Webbots there will be a disporia away from the coastal areas
in the SE States and the eastern seaboard because the fumes {ocean breezes} will start making people sick...The oil despersents are doing their job...the whole thing is the beginning of a de-population agenda by The Powers That BE.....The poor people in the Carribean won't be able to leave,,,,Cuba,Jamaca,Haiti,Central America,Mexico ,etc...if correct over one billion people will die in the next 19 months....the date to watch is July 11th,,,it's a solar eclypse,,,and a major event is predicted to happen....only 5 weeks away...

Oh yes, I've posted that it reasonable to believe that the elderly and people with respiratory issues will be advised to relocate at least temporarily. But beyond that, younger and/or healthier people will also be affected by the fumes.

The fishermen are already feeling the the hurt as despite good catches, sales are down in Florida. The news hasn't mentioned the crabbers yet that I've seen.

There are some very poor people in Florida who fish for food and also have no other means of earning a wage - I'm talking the mom and pop outifts.

Water front property owners haven't really chimed in yet but I'm looking for them to in the future.

And let's not forget acid rain.

Your right, islanders will probably be the hardest hit. Where can they go? Wha about their food supply?

Dear God, so many human deaths predicted. I hope webbot is wrong I really do.

I will keep an eye out for July 11th. Astronomy/astrology afects on the earth and humanity is always an intrigue to me.

[cathar]

Natalee Holoway suspect in second murder sought in Peru

Joran Van der Sloot//last name means "dweller near a reedy ditch or quagmire"

You can take the boy out of the swamp...but you can't take the swamp out of the boy.....:eek::eek::eek::D

[coco]

You can take the boy out of the swamp...but you can't take the swamp out of the boy.....:eek::eek::eek::D

That filthy louse extorted money from the Holloway family with the promise of telling them where they could find her body and how she died. :mad:

[cathar]

@Coco...I have this theory that the ancients chose sociopathic children as human sacrifices in order to prevent trouble in the future & obviously to weed out bad DNA in the tribe...This guy Vander Sloot is an sociopath for sure,,,,He will probably spend the rest of his life in prison...I don't think they have capitol punishment in Peru,,,or anywhere in South America....

[cathar]

Ronnie LEE Gardner was executed by firing squad yesterday...Lee means dweller in a clearing in the woods...Gardner has 2 meanings [1] a gardener] & [2] from the Saxon Gar,,meaning weapon &dyn meaning to sound an alarm...

David LEE powel was executed a few days ago in Texas...He had been on death row for 32 years for the murder of a police officer in 1978...

Bess...= dweller near the burch trees////
Donald Andrew BESS was convicted & sentenced to death for the 1984 rape & murder of Angela Somota,a university coed.DNA evidence lead to Bess's arrest 25 years after the crimes were comitted.

[imaginarysoul]

Thank you, I'm intrigued by webbot. :)

It would not surprise me that a great deal of illness occurs as a result of the oil leak: acid rain, oil leaching into the food chain for both meat and vegetable, air contamination. Foreign distributors with lesser quality controls importing more product increasing their market position by filling a gap in the domestic seafood market. Asia already imports seafood but I predict because of the Gulf Coast disaster there will more importing.

In fact, that reminds me of something I received in the mail recently:

BASA FISH

Woolworths and Coles sell this

Many are snatching up the fish at supermarkets as they are very cheap.
The fish looks good but read the article and you will be shocked. This product is from Vietnam.

Do you eat this frozen fish called BASA? ( Pangasius, Vietnamese River Cobbler, White Catfish, Gray Sole)

Industrially farmed in Vietnam along the Mekong River, BASA or Pangas or whatever they're calling it, has only been recently introduced to the French market. However, in a very short amount of time, it has grown in popularity in France. They are very, very affordable (cheap), are sold in fillets with no bones and they have a neutral flavor and texture; many would compare it to cod and sole, only much cheaper. But as tasty as some people may find it, there's, in fact, something hugely unsavory about it. I hope the information provided here will serve as very important information for you and your future choices. Here's why it is better left in the shops and not on your dinner plates:

1. BASAS or Pangas are teeming with high levels of poisons and bacteria. (industrial effluents, arsenic, and toxic and hazardous by-products of the growing industrial sector, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), DDT and its metabolites (DDTs), metal contaminants, chlordane-related compounds (CHLs), hexachlorocyclohexane isomers (HCHs), and hexachlorobenzene (HCB).

The reason is that the Mekong River is one of the most polluted rivers on the planet and this is where basa/pangas are farmed and industries along the river dump chemicals and industrial waste directly into it. Avoid eating them because they contain high amounts of contamination. Regardless of Reports and recommendations against selling them, supermarkets still sell them, knowing full well that they are contaminated.

2. They freeze Basa/Pangas in contaminated river water.

3. BASA/Pangas are raised in Vietnam . Pangas are fed food that comes from Peru ( more on that below), their hormones ( which are injected into the female Pangas ) come from China . ( More about that below ) and finally, they are transported from Vietnam to other countries.

4. There's nothing natural about Basa/Pangas - They're fed dead fish remnants and bones, dried and ground into a flour (from South America), manioc ( cassava ) and residue from soy and grains. This kind of nourishment doesn't even remotely resemble what they eat in nature. But what it does resemble is the method of feeding mad cows ( cows were fed cows, remember? ). What they feed basa/pangas is completely unregulated so there are most likely other dangerous substances and hormones thrown into the mix. The basa/pangas grow 4 times faster than in nature, so it makes you wonder what exactly is in their food? Your guess is as good as mine.

5. Basa/Pangas are injected with Hormones Derived from Urine. They inject female Basa/Pangas with hormones made from the dehydrated urine of pregnant women, the female Pangas grow much quicker and produce eggs faster ( one Basa/Panga can lay approximately 500,000 eggs at one time ). Essentially, they're injecting fish with hormones ( they come all of the way from a pharmaceutical company in China ) to speed up the process of growth and reproduction. That isn't good. And also consider the rest of the reasons to NOT eat BASA.

6. You get what you pay for - and then some. Don't be lured in by insanely cheap price of Basa/Pangas. Is it worth risking your health and the health of your family?

7. Buying Basa/Pangas supports unscrupulous, greedy corporations and food conglomerates that don't care about the health and well-being of human beings. They are only concerned about selling as many basa/pangas as possible to unsuspecting consumers. These corporations only care about making more money at whatever cost to the public..

8. Basa/Pangas WILL make you sick - If you don't get ill with vomiting, diarrhea and effects from severe food poisoning, congratulations, you have an iron stomach! But you're still ingesting POISON not "poisson".

Final important note: Because of the prodigious amount of availability of Basa/Pangas, be warned that they will certainly find their way into other foods like imitation crab sticks, fish sticks, fish terrines, and probably in some pet food too. Just check the Ingredient List to see if Basa is one of the ingredients. Good Luck.

:eek:

I work at Woolworths.

This is horrible. We sell heaps of the stuff.

[cathar]

Mortimer:Dweller near a stagnant pond or partially drained swamp...///
Thomas Mortimer was arrested 2 days ago in Western Massachusetts for the murder of his wife,his 2 children,& his mother in law...he left notes at the crime scene confessing to the murders.

note:the newspapers are confirming this last names/swamp theory on an almost daily basis...I don't keep up with all the new "swamp name murders"...except sporadically to keep this thread alive...I want to thank all the contributers to this thread...something is going on right beneath the surface of everyday reality...& it's weider than most people can believe...

[coco]

Dearest Cathar,

Have you had online trouble in the past couple of days? On Thursday we could not get online at home at all, we use Embarq. On Friday, the work computer was working slow online, there we use VVM. Just curious, could be the result of recent, heavy rains or may be solar flairs or who knows what.

I'm in Central Texas. Just curious.

[cathar]

Hope <dweller on a raised land in the middle of a marsh or wasteland...

If you google Bob Hope/sexual pervert you will discover that the famous comedian was a perv....:eek:

[cathar]

Moore: Dweller on ,or near,the high marsh or wasteland.

Coulton Harris-Moore aka THe Barfoot Bandet was captured last week in the Bahamas:D

[cathar]

Three murderers escaped from an Arizona prison yesterday...two of them have "criminal " last names...Renwick means Raven/outlying settlement
& McCluskey.= resounding noise,blast...
read thread for more details...

[cathar]

:cool::DMichael Mara,,aka,,"the Geezer Bandit",arrested in louisana for over a dozen bank robberies...
Mara,,[greek],,means crazy,wild ,strong
Mara [polish] dweller in or near a marsh...:eek:

[spoons]

For whatever reason, names do shape our lives. It's up to us to limit or enhance the effect.

[cathar]

:eek:5 U.S. soldiers accused of targeting,slaying Afgan & Iraq civilians.

[1] andrew Holmes.: Dweller on an island in a stream.:eek:
[2] jeremy..Morlock : Dweller on the moor by a lake.:eek:
[3]adam Winfield : meadow,pasture,open field
other 2 names are Gibbs and Wagnon...3 out of 5 names are "bad" names..:o...Wagnon is German,,it means farmer.

story from Dallas Morning News aug.26,,page 11A

[cathar]

bump///related

[cathar]

http://www.foxnews.com.us/2010/09/01/james-jay-lee/

Lee means Dweller in a clearing in a wood.:eek:

Lee was the Discovery Channel shooter of a few days ago...

[lyricusmagna]

What does Higgins mean?

[cathar]

What does Higgins mean?

Higgins..[Eng,,Irish ]..the son of little Higg or Hick,pet forms of Richard [ rule,hard]...; Descendent of Uige [knowledge]

[lyricusmagna]

Higgins..[Eng,,Irish ]..the son of little Higg or Hick,pet forms of Richard [ rule,hard]...; Descendent of Uige [knowledge]

Interesting, since the name is also Richard lol.

Good thread, you actually got me thinking and doing some similar research. Not many have been able to do that. Cheers ;)

[vivalazimmer]

Wilson is an interesting name ...The Beach Boys ,Brian,Dennis & Carl Wilson.
Heart,rock band from the pacific NW ,,2 Wilson sisters are the creative force
Alabama,a country band with lots of hits,,3 Wilson Brothers
Colin Wilson..the great & very prolific UK writer.There are alot more Wilsons ..I can't think of them right now.
Wilson:The son of Will[pet form of William]helmet,resolution...

Im not sure if this fits, but the Beach Boys were great friends with Charles Manson. Manson also wrote most of the songs on the beachboys petsounds album.

[cathar]

Im not sure if this fits, but the Beach Boys were great friends with Charles Manson. Manson also wrote most of the songs on the beachboys petsounds album.

WRONG !!!!!///
Dennis Wilson was the only Beach Boy who was friends with Manson....and none of his songs were on Pet Sounds...which came out while Manson was still in Prison....The Beach Boys recorded only one Manson song and some of the words were changed...

[cathar]

Im not sure if this fits, but the Beach Boys were great friends with Charles Manson. Manson also wrote most of the songs on the beachboys petsounds album.

Pet Sounds was released on May 16,1966....

Manson was released from prison in March 1967...:)

[cathar]

Mike Huckaby,former govener of Arkansas,is considered a serious contender for President of the USA in 2012....

Huckaby means Crooked...or dweller at a bend in a river /stream...:D

[coco]

Caught a few minutes of his show once. His band wasn't very good.

[vegan_on_the_land]

Interesting but someone's surname is only one of many that are in their family tree. It just happens to be the name of the paternal line. And quite a few people are not descended from the name that they bear - some female ancestor might have had a liason with some man other than her husband and pretended her husband was the father. If there is anything that links maniacal behaviour to a name it would point to a possible connection with something in the Y-chromosome.

Someone called Marsh will have as many Smith, McTavish and Muller genes as Marsh genes.

[chrysoprase]

From what you are saying, vegan_on_land, that would make only the paternal line valid in looking at the last name - and I don't think we should. It is just as interesting to take you mother's maiden name and look at that.

In fact, as you say

"some female ancestor might have had a liason with some man other than her husband and pretended her husband was the father"

then maybe it would make even more sense to look at one's link to maniacal behaviour through the mother's side, and follow the maternal line.

(I like to look at both sides though, because I think we are a combination of both mother and father assuming that it is your real father and grandfather, etc.)

Someone called Marsh will have as many Smith, McTavish and Muller genes as Marsh genes.

So, why not look at all of those and see what combo you come up with?

[vegan_on_the_land]

Yes, I agree with you. The original post referred to the surnames of murderers and pointed to their connection to certain meanings. Those surnames are from the paternal line. All I am saying is that the surname is just one of hundreds of surnames in our ancestory. I have traced my ancestry back over 200 years in one line and I have come across 3 or 4 dozen different surnames in total - without finding my family tree, I'm not sure of the exact number. I am equally descended from each of them but I have only one surname. That surname is not more me than any of the others.

One of the surnames in my ancestry means 'head smasher' (it has alternative meanings based on what part of Ireland it comes from but I like that one and I think it refers to the part of the country where my lot came from). Another means 'son of the priest'. Another means 'nail'. Another means 'descendent of Victorious'. And yet another means 'muddy place'.:D But my paternal line surname is quite nice - referring to good fortune. I am the child of all these names. I am not one more than another.

A strange thing about surnames is that they are gradually reducing in number. If someone doesn't have a son their surname will not be passed on (not counting unmarried women who give their surnames to their children). This has happened in my ancestry. The surname of one of my great-great-great-great grandmothers no longer exists. I couldn't find it in the 1891 census. There were only three people with it in the 1871 census. They must have died without sons. Even though that name is dead the genes of those people who had it are still active - in me, my siblings and various cousins. The same thing is happening to the mitochondrial DNA. Only women can pass it on. I couldn't pass it on. Nor can my brother. My sister just has one son. He can't pass it on. So, the strain of mitochondrial DNA that has existed from the time it first existed, and that was passed down in my mother's maternal line, will not be going any further. It will become extinct.

If surnames do influence behaviour, perhaps it's the meaning of them that plays on someone's mind.

It would be interesting to find out if people called Lovejoy, Gentle, and other names like those are nicer than average.

[cathar]

@ vegan on the land, my intent in posting this thread was the hope that someone would take this idea and run with it...do genealogy work on the worst kinds of murderers...

I'm convinced that part of the puzzle involves possession by evil spirits...I think the ancients knew something that modern science has dismissed out of hand,

A most interesting trilogy I read a year ago relates to this thread . Peter Levenda's
Sinister forces: A Gremoria of American Political Witchcraft...Levenda makes a case for possession and the reality of demonic forces and spell casting..he basically uncovers and sheds a new light on the big crimes of the 20th century,,,Manson,JFK hit.etc.

Another Aspect of his idea that I haven't touched on is Family Curses...generations of family members who can't seem to get it right...

As for people with "good" names,,,I have found it to be true,,,people tend to marry their own kind...I have looked up the meanings of several people over the years who seemed to have mostly good names in their tree and they were nice people,,,and in the case of the women were actually quite beautiful in appearence...easy to fall in love with,,,warm and giving,,etc,,,

Wish I could have married a certain one of them but she was already taken...:)

[coco]

You did inspire me to start looking, really looking into my 'modern' or 'recent family tree', thank you. :)

My grandfather approached an agency in the 70's that traced us back to Germany (I don't have the documentation and Papa is long passed away), but I wanted to do my own research for fun and to see if I could do it and learn of any interesting surprises. No surprises. No doctors, no scientists, no politicians, just farmers and later and around mid 20th century some factory workers and a few truck drivers.

Today, I know of some that have college degrees and have married 'outside people', but not all.

I admit I only used internet resources, as I'm not in the correct part of the country to visit cemetaries and libraries with local information.

I traced my father's hillbilly family back to the early 1820's, not a wealth of different names in the family tree supporting the notion that the eastern mountain peoples did marry cousins as a usual practice. No, I don't have crossed eyes, Lol.

My mother is adopted and definitely not a family member (of my father's family, she's even from a different part of the country) so there is no point in trying to look at her side.

Thanks to Dad for choosing 'an outside woman' to add some different DNA. And thanks to Cathar for the inspiration.

[cathar]

http://my.opera.com/Tabmartel.blog/2008/06/23/weird-news-list-murderers-with-the-middle-name-wayne

For definations of wayne like words see page 2 of this thread at bottom,,,:eek:

LIst of murderers with the middle name WAYNE...[yikes!!!!!

[coco]

http://my.opera.com/Tabmartel.blog/2008/06/23/weird-news-list-murderers-with-the-middle-name-wayne

For definations of wayne like words see page 2 of this thread at bottom,,,:eek:

LIst of murderers with the middle name WAYNE...[yikes!!!!!

Wayne does seem to be a popular name amonst the most horrible of criminals. :eek:

[vegan_on_the_land]

I don't think I believe in evil spirits. But let's just say they do exist and they do latch on to people who live in certain places. If people with, say, 'muddy names' are more likely to be possessed by them this would mean they only choose those people. Take my case for example. In my father's line there are those ancestors whose name means a muddy place. The evil spirits would have stayed with all their descendents with this name. But then one of them (a woman) married my father's ancestor (a man) whose surname means 'descendent of Victorious'. Their daughter married my father's ancestor whose surname has the good fortune meaning. Would the evil spirits have stopped following my bloodline when it changed its name to a 'victorious' or 'good fortune' name? Will they still be following any of my cousins who are still called a muddy name? I probably have some such cousins.

If there are evil spirits and they follow people who are descended from people who lived in certain places, they must target only those who keep the name. What if someone with a muddy name deliberately changed their name to something else?

I'd never heard of the Wayne Phenomenon but in my dictionary of surnames the meaning is given as 'waggon' or 'cart'. Like in Constable's painting The Haywain', and the surname Wainwright - a maker of wains. The different spellings of Wain, Wayne and Waine are due to them being from different parts of England.

What about forenames? Does anyone think they could influence behaviour? I am much more peaceable than my name suggests.

There could be something in the name theories but I need to know how.

[cathar]

@vegan on the land,
If you have read this thread carefully I state that I don't have all the puzzle pieces....however I do know that the powers that be have dismissed alot of ancient knowledge because they don't want modern people to know the truth...

For instance, Astrology has been proven scientifically to be real...Demonic possession is real or why would the church teach priests how to cure demon possessed people....these are documented cases....

I have read enough True Crime books to believe in possession.....
the case can be made that sociopathic behavior is genetic in some cases..it is inherited,,,just like insanity runs in families...or certain diseases....
as does psychic ability,artistic or musical ability...

Terence McKenna ,considered by some to be smarter than Einstein,said that the more he looked at history,the more it seemed like a well written novel..so it follows that people's names should fall in line with that idea...:eek:

[rapunzel]

I think this is a very dangerous thread, linking people to criminals because of their names.

[rapunzel]

@vegan on the land,
If you have read this thread carefully I state that I don't have all the puzzle pieces....however I do know that the powers that be have dismissed alot of ancient knowledge because they don't want modern people to know the truth...

For instance, Astrology has been proven scientifically to be real...Demonic possession is real or why would the church teach priests how to cure demon possessed people....these are documented cases....

I have read enough True Crime books to believe in possession.....
the case can be made that sociopathic behavior is genetic in some cases..it is inherited,,,just like insanity runs in families...or certain diseases....
as does psychic ability,artistic or musical ability...

Terence McKenna ,considered by some to be smarter than Einstein,said that the more he looked at history,the more it seemed like a well written novel..so it follows that people's names should fall in line with that idea...:eek:

Astrology has not been scientifically proven to be real - it is bunk.

There's no evidence for Demonic possession. The medieval Church had some very ignorant people amongst its members and the fact they taught how to cure demon possessed people means nothing.

[vegan_on_the_land]

For instance, Astrology has been proven scientifically to be real...Demonic possession is real or why would the church teach priests how to cure demon possessed people....these are documented cases....



I don't know about demonic possession or astrology so I can't really comment. There could be 'bad' genes that are passed on but we can very often overcome the influence of our genes by the way we live, what we eat, and what we believe. Perhaps these people need help to overcome any genetic predispostions they may have.

[cathar]

:eek:[QUOTE=vegan_on_the_land;1059278533]I don't know about demonic possession or astrology so I can't really comment.


The Case for Astrology...by Jonn Anthony West........Colin Wilson and many others have written proof that astrology is a fact....

Father Malachi Martin
Hostage to the Devil
http://www.weirdload.com/martin.html

Malachi was a frequent guest on CoasttocoastAM before he died...he is one of many who have written about demnic possession...

You can't cure people if they don't want to be cured...some people are just born that way...without a conscience....:eek:

[coco]

Cathar, the world mysteries link says:

Warning

Sorry, but the document you are requesting cannot be found at World-Mysteries.com

Evidently the document you were looking for has either been moved or no longer exists.

Please use the menu links to locate additional resources and information.

To help us with troubleshooting, please send us information about this problem (how was this error triggered).

Thank you.

[cathar]

@coco,,sorry about that,,,try this...

http://astrologyresearchjournal.org/

Case study of Murderers & their astrological connections ..

proof that astrology is real,,,,

[coco]

@coco,,sorry about that,,,try this...

http://astrologyresearchjournal.org/

Case study of Murderers & their astrological connections ..

proof that astrology is real,,,,

Thanks!

[cathar]

The Zodiac Signs of Serial Killers:eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://www.astrostar.com/Astrology-Serial-Killers.htm

[cathar]

http://www.astrologyresearchjournal.org/article101704/index.htm

horoscopes of murderers,serial killers,and mass murdreres compared to control groups...

[cathar]

Verne [French] Dweller in or near a grove of alder trees...

page 530,,New Dictionary of American Family Names..by Elsdon Smith

[cathar]

William Randolf HURST>>>One who lived by ,or near,a wood or copse..

The film Citizen Caine was a veiled bio of Hurst,,,,who saw to it that hemp was replaced by woodpulp to make paper,,,and that weed became illegal,Hurst owned thousands of acres of timber land in Canada,,,,

[cathar]

Schrenk/Schrenker..[german] the sly,cunning,crafty man.

Marcus Schrenker,an Indiana money manager who stole from investers
and tried to fake his death by parachuting out of a plane and crashing it was

sentenced to 10 years in prison Thursday despite his plea for a lighter sentence

that he said would give him more time to make things right....:)

[cathar]

Schill..one who lived near a muddy place

Schell;One who is easily irratated,,the wild or noisey man

both names are German..

[cathar]

TROLLope,,Dweller in ,or near,the elf hollow,,,://the untidy,slovenly person,,,,trollope

[pr0f173r]

what does your last name mean Cath?

[cathar]

Ted [child killer] Heath

Heath:one who came from Heath[wasteland with low schrubs.].

DI has stated the former Prime Minister Ted Heath is a paedophile & worse.

[cathar]

Winkler;dweller on land enclosed by mountains or woods.

from todays"s newspaper: A Mr.Winkler agreed to pay a man $2,200 to murder his wife & make it look like a burglery ,,,,this was in Arkansas {I think?]..the man went to the police...

[cathar]

Eric [slow hand] Clapton....nice guy,,considered my many to be greatest rock guitarist ever,,,certainly the best out of the 60's...let's see what his name means,shall we.

Clapton:,One who came from Clapton [homestead on a hill] the name of places in Cambridgeshire & Berkshire,,,
So Eric is the opposite of a swamper,,he is a hilltopper....makes sense...

[llanfairpwll]

I've subscribed to the thread. This is all very interesting. Thanks.

[cathar]

Randy Quade is in the news..sooooo

Quade>[irish,german]>the son of Wat, a pet form of Walter{rule,army}//the cross,ill- tempered man.

[coco]

I've subscribed to the thread. This is all very interesting. Thanks.

The correlations are interesting.

[cathar]

Steven Hayes strangled woman and her 2 daughters were tied to their beds

and left to die in a gasoline fueled fire..:eek:

Hayes>>>habitational name ..so called from Old English [ h?se'=brushwood;

or a topographical name from the same word...


from Dallas Morn, News 11/09/10 page 4 A

[cathar]

The word soren in Danish & Norweigen is used as a term for the Devil..

In Lord of the Rings Sauran is the ultimate bad guy...

& Saruman is a wizard gone bad,,,as in Sauran's man

Sorenson[Dan,Nor} the son of Soren[strict or severe],,the name of several saints.

[cathar]

Geddy,Geddie,Gedde:[Eng,Scot]

One possesed of an evil spirit,the mad or insane preson..

page 176...New Dictionary of American Family Names

[llanfairpwll]

I'm wondering if the nickname Eddie for Edward would have the same effect as the name Geddie since they sound similar?

[cathar]

I'm wondering if the nickname Eddie for Edward would have the same effect as the name Geddie since they sound similar?


Interesting idea....Edward,Eddie,Edwin,Edmund all mean rich....

There certainly have been a lot of losers named Eddie...

Fast Eddie in the film The Hustler [ Paul Newman]

Eddie Haskle in Leave it to Beaver...

Seems like some British Kings were Edwards..

Ward means dweller near a marsh...

Warden/Worden= Dweller in a valley with a weir or dam....

You may be on to something llanfairpwll.......:)

[cathar]

Gendel,Gendill.[ german] descendant of Gendel ,a short form of Gandalhart[werewolf.,hard]

Grendal was the name of the monster in Beuwolf,,,

[cathar]

Geyer>[German]..One who came from Geyen [place of vultures],the name of several places in Germany...

http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html

The Second Coming by W.B.Yates

Turning & turning in the widening GYRE

The falcon cannot hear the falconer.....

[east sun]

I only read about half the posts on here.
You can take any name and all the people by that name and turn it into anything you want to. This is a total wast of time.

[llanfairpwll]

I don't think it is a waste of time. I think it is interesting to know the origins of names.

[earthicastar]

alright.. everybody
get your last names out here on the table
.. chop chop

[llanfairpwll]

I'm afraid to post it. Probably means crazy cat lady or something, LOL.

[cathar]

Slaughter [English]..Dweller at ,or near,a muddy place or slough./one who came from Slaughter[muddy place] in Gloucestershire// one who killed animals : a butcher.

[cathar]

Schlemmer [german] one who engages in drinking and carousing ;a gormandiser

[cathar]

Christmas..{english},,,a descendant of Christmas; Name given to one born on that day.

[cluas]

The word soren in Danish & Norweigen is used as a term for the Devil..

In Lord of the Rings Sauran is the ultimate bad guy...

& Saruman is a wizard gone bad,,,as in Sauran's man

Sorenson[Dan,Nor} the son of Soren[strict or severe],,the name of several saints.

Søren Sørensen is then the most evil guy in Denmark ?

Well, lots of ppl use the "Søren" when they curse, (instead of satan) ...Guess it makes sense somehow ...


Good thread :)

[cathar]

After the Crusades people in Europe began to feel the need for a family name.The nobles

& upper classes,especially the ones who went on the Crusades,observed the prestiege &

practical value of an added name,and were quick to take a surname ,usually the names of the land they owned.

When the Crusaders returned from the wars ,the upper classes who had stayed home

soon followed suit.

When the clerks who kept the records in the manors & in the feudal lands of the nobles

noted the payments of fines and amercements by the vassels,they needed an additional description

in order to distinguish one Andy,Flint
,Vern,or Mikey from another.The inclination to ridicule

or compliment a neighbor or acquaintance by applying a nickname contributed to the

rise of surnames.

[cathar]

In England,by the end of the 14th century,surnames were generally hereditary;in France

the process evolved a little earlier and in Germany a little later..

In Italy the patricians of Venice adopted a hereditary surname system during the 10th&11th

centuries & they were the first in Europe.


NOTE>>> The Black Death occured around the mid 1340s, the mid 14th Century...

a third of the population of Europe was swept away....this may have contributed to

the surname business...a sense of identity as a survivor...who knows???

[rhydra]

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Obama
The boy's name Obama \o-ba-

is of African origin, has the meaning "crooked, somewhat bent". Made famous by American President Barack Obama. Obama was originally his grandfather's given name.
Similar baby names are Obadiah, Obie, Obed and Obi.

Obama is an uncommon first name for men and an equally uncommon last name for both men and women. (1990 U.S. Census)



http://www.babynamer.com/cameron

Its source is a Gaelic expression meaning "Crooked stream."

Narrative: There is a dispute about the second element of this surname. Some authorities prefer the definition ''crooked nose,'' and others cite ''crooked hill'' as a possible meaning.

Crooked seems to be a common feature and as with Cameron, the stream, water connection.

[cathar]

@ rhydra..thanks ^^^^^^^^^^

Some may remember Richard {tricky Dick} Nixon's famous Watergate era quote>>

>>>> "I am not a crook."

[cathar]

Most of the European family names were derived in the following ways:

[1] from the man's place of residence

[2] from the man's occupation

[3] from the Father's name

[4] from a descriptive nickname

[cathar]

Craik..Scottish>>>Name from a place in Aberdeenshire from Gaelic>creag

Steep or preciptious.

Creamer..>>the shopkeeper or tradesman,,,one who traveled through the country buying butter,hens,and eggs,which he carried to the market in a cram,

or pack,on his back.....................

[cathar]

Trippet,[,english]....one with the reputation of playing malicious tricks on others..

[alexc]

I came to realize that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of the following last name meanings.
[1]dweller in or near a swamp,marsh,moor,or waste land.
[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest/[3]dweller on uncultivated or barren land./[4]dweller in a deep valley or hollow.

Interesting, but don't most names in general have a meaning that can be traced back to a reference to where they dwell?

[cathar]

Most of the European family names were derived in the following ways:

[1] from the man's place of residence

[2] from the man's occupation

[3] from the Father's name

[4] from a descriptive nickname


@ alexc.....here are the name origin business,,,,,given that women give up

their surname when they get married it's easy to see how this trail gets lost over time....

that is why a geneologist might come up with some interesting confirmation

of this theory.....

[cathar]

Postlewaite....one who came from Postlethwaite[Postol's clearing] in Cumberland.

[cathar]

Loughner...not found

Lough,,dweller by a lake
Loughlin...dweller near a lake or sea inlet

I'm guessing Loughner is pronounced loner..as in lone nut

[cathar]

Jared Lee Loughner

Lee>> dweller in an open place in the woods.

Lee Harvey Oswald
Henrey Lee Lucas
the list of criminals with a first or middle name Lee is very long...

[cathar]

Question>> Could the word "sorry">meaning wretched or useless" derive from

the last name Sawrey:one who came from Sawrey [muddy place] in Lancashire.? ? ?

Example.."That" sorry" son of a bitch poster Ellvis Deapshit on the DI forum...":D

[cathar]

Mark Potok...southern poverty law center shill who smeared DI

Potok[polish]...one who dwelled near a brook.....

he is a swamper IMO

[cathar]

Brisbane [ English,Scot.] nickname for the official torturer who broke bones.

New Dictionary of American Family Names..By Elsdon C. Smith....page 60


I'm not making this stuff up.....

[cathar]

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Obama


http://www.babynamer.com/cameron





Crooked seems to be a common feature and as with Cameron, the stream, water connection.

the name Obama is of African origin& has the meaning "crooked,somewhat bent"



Bent,,{English} dweller at an unenclosed pasture,moor,or heath....:eek:

[cluas]

HALL: Middle English name meaning "to cover, conceal."

don't remember where I saw this :o

[llanfairpwll]

Question>> Could the word "sorry">meaning wretched or useless" derive from

the last name Sawrey:one who came from Sawrey [muddy place] in Lancashire.? ? ?

Reminds me of Tom Sawyer. Always getting into heaps of trouble. Wonder if this is why Twain chose the name.

[cathar]

Reminds me of Tom Sawyer. Always getting into heaps of trouble. Wonder if this is why Twain chose the name.



@llanfairpwll....you might have something there...Sawyer and Sawrey look related.....:)



Sawyer/Sawier/Sawyier.{english}>>One who cut timber into boards or slats.

page 447 >>New Dictionary of American Family Names

[cathar]

Lopez [Spainish]..The son of Lope or Lupe {wolf}

[cathar]

Kyle[English,Scottish] Dweller near the Kyle[narrow] ,a river in Yorkshire,,,
One who came from Kyle[narrow strait ] in Ayrshire.

[cathar]

Tabak [Polish] one who prepared & sold snuff.

[cathar]

Indovina[Italian] One who predicts or forsees events,a seer.

Ing, Inge...[English] Dweller at,or near,a swampy meadow.

[cathar]

Trunk.[German] a drunkhard.

[cathar]

Durkee [ Russ/Ukrain] the stupid or dull man.

Durkin [Irish] the son of Duarean [ the gloomy one]

Durkovic [Yu.SL/Russ] The son of Durko {the stupid one]

This is probably were the word dork comes from...as in Elvis Deapshit is a dork.

[llanfairpwll]

Durkee [ Russ/Ukrain] the stupid or dull man.

Durkin [Irish] the son of Duarean [ the gloomy one]

Durkovic [Yu.SL/Russ] The son of Durko {the stupid one]

This is probably were the word dork comes from...as in Elvis Deapshit is a dork.

I think this is my favorite post, Cathar. :) You gotta love modern slang. I always wonder sometimes where words like dork and jerk (among others) come from.

[cathar]

Maule,Chile...6.6 mag quake

Maule.:nickname for someone with a deformed mouth,or someone who made

excessive use of the mouth in eating,drinking,or talking.IE>MM

Middle High German,,mul="mouth"...as in mauveta mulshadow

[cathar]

Valentine,Vallentyne,Valentin:[Eng/French/Spainish]>>Descendent of Valentine[vigorous& healthy]

Valentino[Italian] vigorous and healthy

[cathar]

Finocchio [Italian]..One who cultivated and sold fennel,a herb prized for it's aromatic flavor.

Descendant of Fino,a pet form of Serafino{serpant,luminous} and Ruffino{red}.

[cathar]

Zappe,Zaph,Zepp,Zeph [German]>>One who sold liquor.:D

[cathar]

Booz,Booze,Boozer [Dutch,Eng]..the angry ,or cross, man../ dweller near the cattle stall.

[cathar]

Pretty: [Eng] the crafty,cunning man.

Frisk:[ Swedish] healthy;sound.

[cathar]

Wanderer [Eng] One who traps moles.

Wantman [Eng] One who traps moles;dweller at the crossroads.

Mole trapping seems to have disappeared as a profession...

[cathar]

Neuffer[german]..one who came from Neuffen in Germany.

Neva [Finn]..Dweller at ,or near, a swamp or marsh..

[B]Never go there...!

[cathar]

Neuffer[german]..one who came from Neuffen in Germany.

Neva [Finn]..Dweller at ,or near, a swamp or marsh..

[B]Never go there...!


If you think about it the word NEVER almost always has a negative
connotation...

I'll never do that again....// Never say that to me again,,etc...
************************************************** *****************

Stevie Ray.... Vaughan,Vaughn [Welch] descendent of Vaughan[little]

[cathar]

{roger}>>...Federer [German]: One who bought and sold feathers.

Spears,Spear,Spiers [English] the watchman or lookout man.

[love_is_all]

Thirty years ago I was looking through the NEW DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN FAMILY NAMES by Elsdon C. Smith and happened to glance at an open newspaper which had an article about serial killers.Long story short:over the next few weeks I came to realize that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of the following last name meanings.
[1]dweller in or near a swamp,marsh,moor,or waste land.
[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest/[3]dweller on uncultivated or barren land./[4]dweller in a deep valley or hollow.
Examples:Richard Speck:One who came from Speke[brushwood] in Lancashire.
Kissinger:one who came from Kissing[swamp]in Germany.
Cheney:one who came from Chaney[oak grove] in France.

Bush:dweller on uncultivated ground.

>the above IS NOT A JOKE!! all questions will be answered..there is more to this than what's on the page.

You need to post more names so you can establish without any doubt a cause and event relationship. Beside that, you develop your theory with two opposites- Richard Speck is working class whereas Henry Kissinger is higher class. Speck used to kill his victims himself while Kissinger paid others to do it.

[magenta_moonshadow]

Most surnames fall broadly into one of only a few categories, based upon the geographical location, physical appearance, occupation, etc, of the ancestors of the individual in question. Therefore it's not unusual for geographical names to feature highly in any list of names, whether of criminals, entertainers, saints or sinners. It's statistically very likely.

Also, some people have adopted other names simply because they didn't like the one they were born with, a case in point being the father of the English actor John Cleese. The surname was originally CHEESE, but John's father changed the name before John was born.

[cathar]

Most surnames fall broadly into one of only a few categories, based upon the geographical location, physical appearance, occupation, etc, of the ancestors of the individual in question. Therefore it's not unusual for geographical names to feature highly in any list of names, whether of criminals, entertainers, saints or sinners. It's statistically very likely.

.


@ magenta...I see your point BUT the list of murderers & ner-do-wells whose middle name is

WAYNE argues against that.....

Example >>> just yesterday I read an obituary of a close friend from my

wild & crazy days in the late 1960s......His luck was so bad that I avoided

him like the plague after 1973.....Everything this guy touched turned to

mud/sh*t.....He was later diagnosed with a strange form of Tourettes Syndrome....he talked like a normal person but he had black out spells..

He would find himself walking down a street & suddenly realize he had

no memory of the last 12 hours....Tourettes Syndrome,IMO,is spirit/demon

possession.....anyway,long story short,,the obituary said his middle name was WAYNE.....:eek:

[magenta_moonshadow]

@ magenta...I see your point

You do? :eek: Wow, remind me to print that and frame it!:p

BUT the list of murderers & ner-do-wells whose middle name is

WAYNE argues against that.....

Example >>> just yesterday I read an obituary of a close friend from my

wild & crazy days in the late 1960s......His luck was so bad that I avoided

him like the plague after 1973.....Everything this guy touched turned to

mud/sh*t.....He was later diagnosed with a strange form of Tourettes Syndrome....he talked like a normal person but he had black out spells..

He would find himself walking down a street & suddenly realize he had

no memory of the last 12 hours....Tourettes Syndrome,IMO,is spirit/demon

possession.....anyway,long story short,,the obituary said his middle name was WAYNE.....:eek:

Well, putting aside your extreme views on the causes of Tourettes, etc... :rolleyes:

How common is Wayne as a boys name in the US? How many parents of a certain socio-economic class will have given their son this name in the 50's and 60's as a nod to actor John Wayne, for instance?

Also, they would be using it a middle name - which they have consciously chosen, maybe hoping that their boy would grow up to emulate the actor they admire - rather than the 'handed-down from generations' surname.

I doubt very much that it's a 'rare' name...

By the way, Wayne isn't a geographical name, it originally meant someone who makes or drives wagons or carts.

[cathar]

wanion [noun] Archiac. curse;vengeance [1540-50];alternative of waniand ME:preposition of wanien,to wane from the phase in the waniand [mone] in the time of the waning [moon] i.e.,in an unlucky hour.
wayless:lacking a road or path: a wayless jungle.
way lay..to intercept or attack from ambush,as in order to rob,seize,or kill
wanton[1]done maliciously or without motive:wanton creulity[2]without regard to what is right.
wangle:to bring about or obtain by scheming or underhanded methods.

^^^^^^^.."in the time of the waning moon..

ie..in an unlucky hour......{see above}.....CHECKMATE

Dear Miss Mooncabbage: I've been looking into this since the fall of 1979.

Your academic world view and take on most subjects limits your

"imagination"...which IMO is very small...this isn't your

fault being that you grew up on a small island..I forgive you...respectfully,cathar:)

[cathar]

Another strange dynamic to this Last Name Meaning business is that many of the gun fighters of the old west have last names that originated in West Riding in Yorkshire,which is where some of the battles between the Scots and Crown armies took place.The battle that the Stewart forces lost {Bonnie Prince Charly}resulted in the deportation of many on the losing side to America.So you see where I'm going with this...Racial memory? Fighting spirit in the DNA? There is something going on here but I haven't got all the puzzle pieces put together..
I do know that ghosts tend to inhabit wet areas more than dry areas...so I'm thinking some sort of generational spirit possesion.I do think that the worst sort of killers are possesed because the nature of some of their crimes is "beyond belief" What other explaination is there.


Dear Miss Mooncabbage...perhaps you might want to address this question..

as long as you seem to have taken an interest in this thread...

Your research into this is most welcome......:D
{seeing as how you're an academically inclined person...};)

[magenta_moonshadow]

^^^^^^^.."in the time of the waning moon..

ie..in an unlucky hour......{see above}.....CHECKMATE

Dear Miss Mooncabbage: I've been looking into this since the fall of 1979.

I couldn't care less, sunshine, it's an occupational surname which later gained favour as a first name:


Transferred use of the surname originating from the Old English wægn, wæn (wagon, cart). The name arose as an occupational name for a wagoner.

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Wayne

http://www.behindthename.com/name/wayne

(And a 'waning moon' isn't a geographical location, except perhaps on Planet Cathar...:rolleyes: )

Your academic world view and take on most subjects limits your

"imagination"...which IMO is very small...

Facts are facts. Your soundalike wordplay is irrelevant, IMO. Something doesn't become a fact just because your deluded ramblings says so...

this isn't your

fault being that you grew up on a small island..I forgive you...respectfully,cathar:)

And you're so narrow minded about anything outside your particular slab of Texas that you may as well be living in a hole. You once insinuated I was working for the CIA of all things, you paranoid nutjob!!:D

[magenta_moonshadow]

Dear Miss Mooncabbage...perhaps you might want to address this question..

as long as you seem to have taken an interest in this thread...

Your research into this is most welcome......:D
{seeing as how you're an academically inclined person...};)

To be honest, I have absolutely no interest in US gunfighters or the Scottish / English border squabbles, and I have no inclination to research either topic, but you say that many of the losers were deported to the US...so if that's true, why complicate it with theories about 'racial memories', etc, when simple family ancestry through surname (ie: the paternal lineage) will answer the question?:)

[cathar]

Facts are facts. Your soundalike wordplay is irrelevant, IMO. Something doesn't become a fact just because your deluded ramblings says so...



And you're so narrow minded about anything outside your particular slab of Texas that you may as well be living in a hole. You once insinuated I was working for the CIA of all things, you paranoid nutjob!!:D

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ you must be thinking of Highwic...i never

claimed you were CIA....

BTW the modern version of a wagoner is a truck driver...several of

whom have been convicted of serial killings.....

You just don't understand the BIG PICTURE....:)

[cathar]

From the book Jesse James' Secret ..by Ron Pastore..page 258-260 is a list of members of the

James-Younger gang....Jesse's middle name is Woodson..orginating in Yorkshire

The following is a list of gang members with "swamp" names...some members were brothers or cousins with the same last name so i will but a number next to those names..

Reed..2
Ford...2
Poole .2
Wymore
Blackmore
Latche
Burns
Hulsey
Coburn
Pitts

BTW it is estimated that the James gang stole 1,202,8oo dollars over the life of the gang.

[cathar]

According to the above referenced book by Ron Pastore the James-Younger brothers

were members of the Knights of the Golden Circle...a sub group of Scottish Rite Free

masonry....the long term plan was to finance a future war against the USA &

creat a country consisting of Texas & the Southwest.//California and eventually

Cuba and Central & South America...the rumors of buried Confederate gold seem to

be true....After Jesse James faked his own death [with lots of help from the Scottish Rites,etc,,he went into several business ventures with his cousin Robert Ford...

His alleged killer.....the next book will have more info on this ongoing mystery.....

[cathar]

Messer {English/German}.one who made and sold knives.

Messersmith {German}.a smith who made knives.

Metz /Metzer{German} one who came from Metz [swamp;in the middle] in Lorraine.

Metzger/Metzler{German}one who sold or handled meat;a butcher.

************************************************** ****************
Mess..to make a mess
mess around> to involve oneself ,especially for reprehensible purpoes[to mess around with gamblers.

to have sexual affairs

mess up..to treat roughly./to beat up

...>>>>>Don't Mess With Texas<<<<<

[llanfairpwll]

Valentine,Vallentyne,Valentin:[Eng/French/Spainish]>>Descendent of Valentine[vigorous& healthy]

Valentino[Italian] vigorous and healthy

:D A nice, positive, and romantic sounding name.

[cathar]

Midgley: [English]..one who came from Midgley [a midge infested grove]..the name of

2 places in the West Riding in Yorkshire

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166615

Thomas Midgley...the most dangerous man,,,,etc.

[cathar]

Hatch[English]...Dweller by the gate or entrance to a forest.

Aztec,New Mexico...5/6/11....William Hatch,29,was convicted of branding a swastika

into the arm of a mentally disabled Navajo man...age 22...

[cathar]

Thirty years ago I was looking through the NEW DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN FAMILY NAMES by Elsdon C. Smith and happened to glance at an open newspaper which had an article about serial killers.Long story short:over the next few weeks I came to realize that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of the following last name meanings.
[1]dweller in or near a swamp,marsh,moor,or waste land.
[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest/[3]dweller on uncultivated or barren land./[4]dweller in a deep valley or hollow.
Examples:Richard Speck:One who came from Speke[brushwood] in Lancashire.
Kissinger:one who came from Kissing[swamp]in Germany.
Cheney:one who came from Chaney[oak grove] in France.

Bush:dweller on uncultivated ground.



If there is anybody reading
this who knows any writers or creative people who might be interested

in the ideas presented in this thread PLEASE LET THEM KNOW...:)

This information needs to reach a wide audience IMHO....:D

[cathar]

{Dominique} Strauss-Kahn....Head of IMF

Strauss>German>>>from the nick name for an awkward or beligerent person.{from the Middle High German struz 'quarrel' ..'complaint'

Kahn {german}...from a short form of the Germanic personal name Cagano>>against.

Kahn>>>Con..as in pro {for} or CON >against

conman

[gnat]

I've only read the first post in this topic so i've probably missed a load and I may be repeating something but..

isn't it just an illustration of the volume of surnames which are derived from places and that's as far as the statistical implementations go?

I mean nearly all surnames are derived from a place or profesion so the probabilty of a serial killer having a name derived from a place is already stupidly high anyway.

Appologies if i've missed the point by not reading through the thread.

[chrysoprase]

This is what I think, gnat; and I am not sure if cathar would agree with me or not.

I think that sounds and names carry vibrations within them and that lineage and ancestral heritage carries a karma of sorts that repeats itself through future generations (but that doesn't mean someone can't rise above or below their ancestral karma).

And as for the meanings of the names, cathar could explain it better than me <if he wants to>

[cathar]

I think that sounds and names carry vibrations within them and that lineage and ancestral heritage carries a karma of sorts that repeats itself through future generations (but that doesn't mean someone can't rise above or below their ancestral karma

@ chrysoprase...your explaination makes sense to me...I have not been able

to nail it down completly ,,I just am sure that there is something true about

it....thanks for your reply.

@ gnat...the statistical probability of murderers who's middle name is WAYNE

destroys your counter arguement..{IMHO}..If you read the entire thread you might see it differently...

Terence McKenna said that the more he looked into history it seemed like a

well writen novel....too many cioncidences to be "Non-Fiction"....

Reality & history is riddled with syncronisity,cioncidence,and "blind luck".etc.

Skeptics will never be convinced of certain anomilies,,because their minds

are not able to evaluate the stuff..they simply won't go there...

respectfully,cathar..................:)


change your mind...

[gnat]

@ gnat...the statistical probability of murderers who's middle name is WAYNE

destroys your counter arguement..{IMHO}..If you read the entire thread you might see it differently...


Well no, it doesn't even address it.

I asked if the statistical relevance of place derived surnames belonging to murderers is negligible due to the overall volume of surnames derived from places.

This "Wayne" malarky doesn't begin to answer that.:confused:

You might be right though, the few thoughts I have on the topic may well be swayed by the previous pages.

[cathar]

Well no, it doesn't even address it.

I asked if the statistical relevance of place derived surnames belonging to murderers is negligible due to the overall volume of surnames derived from places.

This "Wayne" malarky doesn't begin to answer that.:confused:

You might be right though, the few thoughts I have on the topic may well be swayed by the previous pages.

@gnat...I joined this forum 17 months ago for the express purpose of

starting this thread;with the hope that SOMEONE out there would take this idea and run with it....
I think the idea of family curses is a well known fact....also that some

sociopathic behavior is genetic...inherited in many cases...
************************************************** *
Regarding the idea of syncronisity>>look at the weird coincidence about

the Kennedy/Lincoln assassinations....jusy google it....:)...beyond statistical

probability....

[gnat]

Sorry Cathar, if you don't want debate or critisism then ok, i'll cease posting in your topic.

Before I go.

You said you'd destroyed my argument (a question was all I asked). I pointed out you hadn't even addressed it. You still havn't.

Good luck

[cathar]

Sorry Cathar, if you don't want debate or critisism then ok, i'll cease posting in your topic.

Before I go.

You said you'd destroyed my argument (a question was all I asked). I pointed out you hadn't even addressed it. You still havn't.

Good luck


read the thread !........:cool:

[cathar]

Grimm,Grim,Grime>> descendant of Grim [mask] .the 1st element

in names like Grimbald,Grimkell,& Grimulf ; the fierce,savage person.

Grimwood: dweller in a wood haunted by a ghost..

Grimsell : hill haunted by a ghost.:eek:

[cathar]

Joplin..[Eng}..Descendent of little Jop;a sharpened form of Job [persecuted;affliction]

Joplin ,Mo

Janis Joplin
Scot Joplin

[cathar]

Are criminals born ..?? Not made...?

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/are-criminals-born-not-made

[cathar]

Lt.Governor of Texas David Dewhurst was instrimental in nixing the TWA Groping

bill yesterday ...the prime example of human sewage is ex CIA,helped overthrow the government of Bolivia in the 70s...hung out with Klaus Barbie.Nazi know as the Butcher

of Leon for the crimes he commited during WWII...in South America...

The name Dewhurst is not listed,,,But Hurst means dweller in,or near ,a wood or copse of trees....

[one666]

You are probably right because all surnames go away back and their meanings usually told you what class in society one was as the surnames meanings were usually related to work i.e Black=Blacksmith and Wood=Woodcutter and trades like this always stayed in the family therefore it's logical to assume that if someone was a serial killer or rapist and they had children, the Gene would be inherited.

[cathar]

Weiner [German} one who made or sold carts /one who made and sold wine/

one who came from Weine in Germany.

[indica]

What does ''Burney'' Mean?

[cathar]

What does ''Burney'' Mean?


Burney {Scots] one who came from Birnie [wet place] in Elginshire.......:)

[cathar]

Kerry Wendell Thornley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thornley: One who came from Thornley[thorny glade]..the name of places in Durham & Lancashire.

[cathar]

Wood..Dweller in,or near, a grove or dense growth of trees,..The wild or frenzied man.

Dr. Judy Wood..The proponent of the NO PLANES theory....a wild theory to be sure..

I would very much like to have a look at her family tree.{..pun intended...}

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/Wood_Bio.html

Check this out,,Dr Wood got her higher education in Blacksburg ,Virginia at Virginia Tech.....spent at least 9 years there...
would love to know more about her childhood...or anything ..for that matter

Virginia Tech...associated with Operation Monarch...and the mass shooting of April 16,2007...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm////?????

[rapunzel]

Grimm,Grim,Grime>> descendant of Grim [mask] .the 1st element

in names like Grimbald,Grimkell,& Grimulf ; the fierce,savage person.

Grimwood: dweller in a wood haunted by a ghost..

Grimsell : hill haunted by a ghost.:eek:

Grim was also an Anglo Saxon name for Woden i.e. the masked or hooded one.

[cathar]

Manieri [Italian]..from the personal name Mainero,from Frankish >>Maginero,

,composed of the German elements magin 'strength','might' + 'hari','heri'>army

Jeremy WAYNE Manieri killed a priest in Waveland ,Mississippi [using the priest's own gun]..

Then stole the priest's car and took his ex-wife and kids to Disney World in Winter Haven,Florida...Manieri had a 3 day pass to the theme park..he was arrested at a hotel...:o

[cathar]

Hadley..{English}...From Hadda,a personal name,+ leah>>'wood'>woodland clearing..//

or heathland + leah

17 year old Tyler Hadley murdered his parents with a hammer and then threw a party while his parents lay dead in another room of the house...

This happened in St.Lucie ,Florida...{from today's newspaper}

[cathar]

Reed>>One who came from Reed {reedy or rough grouth} in Hertfordshire...

In Melborn,Australia in 1999 there took place the "Envey Murder"....an,ugly ,fat 21 year old

woman, who had changed her last name from Reed to Robertson, murdered a beautiful.charismatic 15 years old aspiring dancer...
Robertson got 12 years in prison..she is due for parole soon.....

this was made into a movie ...Sam Neil and Guy Pierce are in it...

[cathar]

John Wesley Hardin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wesley..Habitational name..Old English,,west+leah>>Clearing in a wood.

Hardin {French}..varient of Harding {English}
From the pet form of several names beginning with hard>>'hardy','brave','strong'..

[llanfairpwll]

Grim was also an Anglo Saxon name for Woden i.e. the masked or hooded one.

The Brothers Grimm fairytales are really quite disturbing when originally published and had to be toned down for suitability as childrens tales. Hansel and Gretal for instance with the witch ready to cook the children in her stove after fattening them up.

[cathar]

2nd inmate convicted of killing prison guard during escape attempt...St.Francisville,La.
from today's newspaper...

Robert Carley..Carley means >>habitional name from the hamlet of Carley,in Lifton,Devon..possible named with Cornish Kerr,'fort'+leah,'woodland clearing'

[cathar]

2 players in the JFK take down on Nov.22,1963

Clay Shaw>>dweller by a thicket or copse//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_Shaw

E.Howard Hunt>>One who hunted wild game,a huntsman.
Hunt admitted in a death bed confession to his son Saint John Hunt that he helped set up the hit on JFK....LBJ was a major player in this operation...{the confession was on tape}

[cathar]

Howard Unruh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unruh>>http://ancestry.com/facts/Unruh-name-meaning.ashx

Unruh {German}nickname for a restless or quarrelsom person..unrouve,unrawa>>>'unrest','disturbance'

America's 1st modern mass murderer killed 13 people in his neighborhood on Sept.6.1949.....was highly decorated WWII soldier....died at age 88 in mental hospital.....his killing spree was known as the Walk of Death.....

[cathar]

The Jukes family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the above book is a study of a family of criminals that span generations....

make of it what you will.....I read it at University many years ago....

[cathar]

Zangara:[Italian].Dweller on mire or in a swampy place.
On Feb.15th,1933 Guiseppi Zangara ,an unemployed bricklayer,attempted to assassinate
Pres.Franklin Roosevelt in Miami,Florida...He missed,but shot 5 other people ,including the mayor of Miami,who later died.Zangara was executed March 20th,1933.
....Had he been successful,John Nance Garner of Texas,would have become president..Garner is famous for his quote "The office of the Vice president isn't worth a
bucket of warm piss"..That was the real quote,,but it was changed to "warm spit" later.

john Hinckley....Hinck means bear cub..Ley means Clearing in a wood.
John Hinckley, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia shot at Reagen...

http://em.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Jane_Moore <<her bullet came within 6 inches of Gerald Ford's head..
Arthur Bremer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <<<Bremer means one who came from Bremer, in NORTHERN Germany.....Northern Germany is low lying land,,many swamps,& Moors,lakes & ponds,very muddy place....Bremer shot George Wallace who was running for POTUS

Lee Harvey Oswald....not the shooter...but in on it....he didn't realize he was the patsy until it was too late..

[cathar]

Moron..{Spainish,French} descendent of the little Mor {swarthy}.// One who came from Moron in Spain:one with a dark skin...
page 360,,New Dictionary of American Family Names...

[cathar]

Thirty years ago I was looking through the NEW DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN FAMILY NAMES by Elsdon C. Smith and happened to glance at an open newspaper which had an article about serial killers.Long story short:Over the next few weeks I came to realize that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of the following last name meanings.
[1]dweller in or near a swamp,marsh,moor,or waste land.
[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest/[3]dweller on uncultivated or barren land./[4]dweller in a deep valley or hollow.
Examples:Richard Speck:One who came from Speke[brushwood] in Lancashire.
Kissinger:One who came from Kissing[swamp]in Germany.
Cheney:One who came from Chaney[oak grove] in France.

Bush:dweller on uncultivated ground.

>the above IS NOT A JOKE!! all questions will be answered..there is more to this than what's on the page.

http://www.livescience.com/16585-psyphopaths-speech-language-html
psychopaths give themselves away in their speech patterns.
************************************************** ***********
The Lucifer Principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

written by Howard Bloom this book above gives a creepy insight into the dark side of human behavior...
************************************************** ********
This thread has gone over 25 thousand views in 22 months....you can google the title and get 15 hits....If you know any writers who might be looking for an idea to weave into the plot of a murder mystery please tell them about this thread.....:)

[cathar]

Rover {German} one who robbed on the highway,sometimes a robber knight.

Rovin,Rovine,Rovinsky {Russian/Polish}Dweller at the canal or ditch.

I couldn't find a defination for the last name Rove..as in Carl Rove...

but it could be a shortened form of either of the above names....I know Carl is a German or Scandenavian name..;)

[erasmus49]

So my surname makes me a killer and a nutter?bad enough without instintive predjudices,just glad I'm not brown or yellow.Trouble is we usually see what we want to see and stop at the first bus stop that fulfills our expectations,thats why mental health is such a mess,keep it up hey!

[cathar]

http://www.bilderberger.ch/?p=1973
M guess is that "swamp/forest" are going to fly off the handle faster than hilltop people ...time will tell...

[cathar]

So my surname makes me a killer and a nutter?bad enough without instintive predjudices,just glad I'm not brown or yellow.Trouble is we usually see what we want to see and stop at the first bus stop that fulfills our expectations,thats why mental health is such a mess,keep it up hey!

Maffeo/Maffei/Maffia{italian}..descendent of Maffeo,{Italian form of Matthew}
Means>> Gracious gift of Jehovah.

@ erasmus..if Maffia is your last name it has the same meaning as Jones..

as in Alex Jones......respectfully,cathar.............:)

[koagula]

This is an interesting topic...

Here's a thought I just had on the subject;

These people would be thinking and hearing these specific words, i.e. their middle names, thousands of times more often than normal people. As you all know, sound vibration/energy can cause strange patterns to appear in sand and other substance when focused upon them. Therefore, maybe there is a certain frequency created when these specific words are heard or said that resonates within the brain of certain individuals who are prone to madness and causes them to carry out their insane desires and fantasies?

It would be interesting to do an experiment like this (below) using the frequencies inherent to these second names;

David Icke: Sound Vibration = Form - YouTube

[cathar]

wanion [noun] Archiac. curse;vengeance [1540-50];alternative of waniand ME:preposition of wanien,to wane from the phase in the waniand [mone] in the time of the waning [moon] i.e.,in an unlucky hour.
wayless:lacking a road or path: a wayless jungle.
way lay..to intercept or attack from ambush,as in order to rob,seize,or kill
wanton[1]done maliciously or without motive:wanton creulity[2]without regard to what is right.
wangle:to bring about or obtain by scheming or underhanded methods.Above similar to WAYNE ..:eek:

Wagner {German/English}..Driver of a wagon/one who made wagons/a cartwright.
Robert Wagner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wagner has the same meaning as Wayne.....just saying....
John Wayne Gacey/Elmer Wayne Henley...lots of murderers with the middle name Wayne.....Did Robert Wagner murder Natalie Wood.....who knows?

[302bluefog]

I'm going to come back and read thru this thread when I have time.

[cathar]

Morton...one who came from Morton {homestead by a marsh}...

Sean David Morton is a new age huckster & con artist...google him and find out more....

************************************************** *************************in the small town where my cousin grew up there was a criminal family that lived on the "wrong side of the tracks" named Morton.....

[cathar]

Steve Ratner,Obama's car czar, resigns..

Ratner {English} a rat cather ,one who's occupation was to catch rats.

[cathar]

Kiefer Sutherland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Michael Wayne Carr ripped Kiefer Sutherland off for $ 869 ,000 in a cattle buying swindle...

Carr,,dweller at or near a marsh...

Wayne has already been covered in this thread.

[cathar]

Romney {English} One who came from Romney {island in a marsh;spacious river} in Kent.

New Dictionary of American Family Names : Page 431

[cathar]

Thirty years ago I was looking through the NEW DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN FAMILY NAMES by Elsdon C. Smith and happened to glance at an open newspaper which had an article about serial killers.Long story short:over the next few weeks I came to realize that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of the following last name meanings.
[1]dweller in or near a swamp,marsh,moor,or waste land.
[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest/[3]dweller on uncultivated or barren land./[4]dweller in a deep valley or hollow.
Examples:Richard Speck:One who came from Speke[brushwood] in Lancashire.
Kissinger:one who came from Kissing[swamp]in Germany.
Cheney:one who came from Chaney[oak grove] in France.

Bush:dweller on uncultivated ground.

>the above IS NOT A JOKE!! all questions will be answered..there is more to this than what's on the page.

Public notice: After 32 years I've finally found the missing piece of this puzzle.....Thanks to Resistance,Delores,Voxvot,Warwick & others...

The swamp people [or Morlocks,as I refer to them} are the Neanderthals,who were driven onto the outlands,forests,swamps,& barren lands by the Cromagnons

http://www.mandus.org/

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=198293

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=198442

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=197049

[cathar]

Overview...the Cromagnons drive the Neanderthals into the swamps,forests,& barren lands...where they live hand to mouth...a dog eat dog existance...

Then the Black plague circa 1340s kills off a third or more people...suddenly life is better for the serfs...fewer hands are about & they get higher pay..& the Neanderthals are given a chance to better themselves....where as before they were shunned for being different.
...............................time passes...............
the Industrial Revolution brings people to the crowded cities where gin houses,prostitution,gambling,and crime are everywhere...the Neandrethals fall back into their old ways...catch as catch can,criminal activities..etc.

eventually they move from being pawn brokers & loan sharks into banking...
and it escalates from there...easy money..

[gnat]

You've been at this for a while now cathar, i'd be interested to hear of any conclusions you have or are leaning towards.

???

[cathar]

You've been at this for a while now cathar, i'd be interested to hear of any conclusions you have or are leaning towards.

???

@ gnat.....One way to go about proving this idea is take a population group...lets say the south island of NZ...then sort out the people into place names,job names {baker,carpenter,etc,} and descriptor names...like red head.

then look at criminal records of each and compare....& see if the swamp,forest people float to the top....

The Neanderthal info posted by Reaistance ,Delores & others really makes the idea have legs imho....

[spellbound]

Lobb...the squat,clumsey fellow...one who came from Lobb [spider],the name of places in Devonshire & Oxfordshire.
is this where the word slob came from...as in Rush Limbough is a big,fat slob???

Lobdell..dweller in a deep hollow infested by spiders.

[spellbound]

Bales: dweller near the wall of the outer court of a feudal castle.//the guardian of the courts,a bailward.

Although we know he did not act alone..Bales is the last name of the soldier charged with killing 16 civilians in Afganistan...Bales is not a swamp name...but it is the name of a guard....someone who is familiar with weapons...just saying...

[spellbound]

Guerrero [Italian/Spainish}..one who engaged in combat:a warrior.

On the USGS earthquake site it altenatly uses Guerrero and Oaxeca as the location for the planned 7.9 quake yesterday...This is a signal code imo...we are headed for WW3...

[spellbound]

Aztec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Aztecs/Mexicas migrated southward & eventually settled on a small SWAMPY island in Lake Texcoco,where they founded their first town in 1325.

Note>>I read a book that i can no longer find which said the Aztecs subsisted on this swampy island by eating reptiles & pond scum for generations.

It took the Aztecs over a hundred years but they eventually became the dominant power in central Mexico..circa 1428.....

The Aztecs instituted the idea of ongoing warfare and constant human sacrifices to keep the Sun moving across the sky....

[spellbound]

Weidmann;{German}..One who hunted game:a huntsman.

Eugen Weidmann>>the last person to be publically exicuted by guillotine in France.

Eugen Weidmann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[spellbound]

.Atavism:the reappearance in an individual of characteristics of some ancester that has been absent in the intervening years.

[spellbound]

Morton {english}dweller on a homestead near a marsh.

Sean David Morton
His rap sheet>> http://ufowatchdog.com/sean_david_morton.htm

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/george_noory.htm

[spellbound]

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1857301/pg1

In the Kubrick film THE SHINING the Overlook Hotel represents America....

The manager of the hotel played by Barry Nelson is named Stuart ULMAN.

Ulman {German} rich/powerful.

Jack Nicolson plays Jack Torrance...which means dweller in the little hills.

I don't know of these are the Stephen King names or if Kubrick came up with them....the vid is only 32 minutes long....

[spellbound]

Jaguar is a Native American word that means "he who kills with one blow"....

On May 20 the Jaguar Gods will return ;)

[spellbound]

Ben Fulford....Fulford:one who came from Fulford {dirty river crossing},,the name of several places in England.

Drake :[English}Dweller at the sign of the dragon.....//One so nicknamed because of a dragon on his coat of arms.////One who played a dragon in the mysteries & miracle plays.