Masons under anti-terror surveillance

[macneil]

Masons under anti-terror surveillance after UDA infiltrates Scottish lodges

By Neil Mackay = Sunday Herald - 02 July 2006

MASONIC halls throughout Scotland are under covert surveillance by anti-terror police after the outlawed loyalist paramilitary group, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) successfully infiltrated the controversial secret society.

David Begg, the grand secretary of the Grand Lodge of Scotland, told the Sunday Herald that Freemasons have been advised by police that lodges throughout the country – particularly in the west of Scotland – are under surveillance by officers targeting the UDA. One Fife lodge has been penetrated by loyalist terrorists who used the premises for fund-raising and operational planning. For more than 18 months, UDA member Steven Moffat used the St Kenneth Lodge in Kennoway as a cover for loyalist paramilitary activity.

The UDA is one of Ulster’s most brutal paramilitary organisations. Using the cover-name the Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF) it waged a campaign of sectarian assassination against Northern Ireland’s Catholics. One of its most notorious “brigadiers”, Johnny “Mad Dog” Adair, fled to Ayrshire after his expulsion from Belfast following an internecine loyalist feud.

Moffat is serving five years in jail after being imprisoned by the High Court in Edinburgh earlier this month under the Terrorism Act 2000 for membership of a proscribed organisation and possession of firearms.

He was found with a Browning 9mm automatic pistol and ammunition at his home. Police also discovered flags, balaclavas and other paramilitary regalia, including documents detailing the UDA’s initiation ceremonies.

Police and prosecutors believed the items “were for the preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism”. Moffat joined the UDA in Belfast at least three years ago.

The Mason’s Fife and Kinross provincial grand master, David Wishart, said Moffat had used the Masonic Lodge in Kennoway for UDA meetings for at least 18 months. A member of the lodge who was also in the Orange Order had arranged for Moffat and his loyalist associates to hold meetings in the Kennoway lodge. Wishart insisted that no other members knew the true nature of Moffat’s activities.

Once Moffat’s actions were discovered, the Mason and Orange Order member who assisted him resigned after being threatened with expulsion from the Masons.

“I was horrified to find out that this had been going on,” said Wishart.

Moffat, who was not a Freemason but often drank in the St Kenneth Lodge’s bar, used the Kennoway Masonic Hall for two types of meetings. Firstly, regular private “strategy” meetings with Moffat and 10 other men occurred over 18 months. The UDA members discussed their plans in a closed room while lodge members drank at the Mason’s bar in the same building.

The second type of meeting was fund-raising events for loyalist causes in Northern Ireland. Up to 70 people attended three fundraisers held at the Masonic Hall over an 18-month period.

Wishart said: “The UDA infiltrated and used us for their illegal purposes. These people are very clever. We were trusting; they gained our confidence and then we were manipulated.”

Kennoway Masonic Hall was closed for eight weeks for an internal Masonic inquiry following police raids in the area in connection with Moffat’s activities.

At the time of his arrest, Moffat was planning to hold an initiation ceremony for Scottish UDA recruits at the Masonic hall. Wishart has since altered hall letting procedures and leasing now has to be cleared by a committee and a lodge member must vouch for those letting the premises.

The Orange Order has been banned from using the Kennoway lodge’s premises. Previously, Orangemen regularly hired out the hall.

“Due to rogue members of the lodge linked to the Orange Order and the UDA we took the decision to no longer allow them the use of the premises,” said Wishart.

Senior police officers told Wishart that they were “mounting similar surveillance operations in the west of Scotland” against Masonic lodges which might have been infiltrated by loyalist terrorists.

“I can’t say if there is or isn’t a risk elsewhere,” said Wishart, pointing out that members of some of the 49 Fife lodges under his command were also in the Orange Order. One other lodge in Fife also allows the Orange Order to rent its premises for functions.

David Begg, the grand master of the Grand Lodge of Scotland, said if any lodges were involved in supporting the UDA they would be closed. He has warned Scotland’s 32 provincial masters to be extra vigilant but cannot compel lodges to introduce committee-led hall letting procedures similar to those adopted by Kennoway.

“We can’t tell lodges what to do. It is up to the trustees of each lodge but we will be producing general guidance in the near future,” he said.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:McflCzQ9qMRJNM:http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/symbols/sash.gif http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:P-JbE_0nUbnJbM:http://www.christian-restoration.com/fmasonry/images/sash%2520symbols.jpg http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:uUpFfuUrrnW2aM:http://www.excatholicsforchrist.com/images/priest.JPG

[azaziel01]

That guy shouldn't have been proposed.

[macneil]

That guy shouldn't have been proposed.

You may have concerns about this for the future ;)

Your a decent bloke from what I gather...

Thanks

[azaziel01]

Thank you MacNeil, I do try to be.

It always concerns me when I read or hear of this, I have to admit there are times when I look at some men that I know to be masons and wonder why exactly they joined. Conversely there are many times when I look at masons known to me and find their conduct and attitude very positive.

I suppose it depends on the individual, there are still those who enter masonry because they have a misguided belief in business dealings etc rather than becoming a better person.

"Lighten our darkness O Lord we beseech thee" - enlighten me in how to think better of myself and of others, how to master piercing through the veil of perception to reality, help me be mindful of my duty and my end.

A multitude of bad men can never take away what true masonry seeks to provide.

Chris

[stewart edwards]

A multitude of bad men can never take away what true masonry seeks to provide.

ChrisTrue but they can:-

1. Prevent seekers from finding in all sorts of practical ways (from not understanding and misguiding to ridiculing and bullying)
2. Divert energy and focus towards darker stuff even if unintentionally.
3. Render lodges impotent in this regard.
4. Give the public good reason not to trust freemasons through their actions in the wider world.

etc

[azaziel01]

I agree Stewart...

chris

[slartibartfast]

2006....:rolleyes: Oh, and it was a case that they hired the hall, not that they were in the Lodge.

[macneil]

Thank you MacNeil, I do try to be.

It always concerns me when I read or hear of this, I have to admit there are times when I look at some men that I know to be masons and wonder why exactly they joined. Conversely there are many times when I look at masons known to me and find their conduct and attitude very positive.

I suppose it depends on the individual, there are still those who enter masonry because they have a misguided belief in business dealings etc rather than becoming a better person.

"Lighten our darkness O Lord we beseech thee" - enlighten me in how to think better of myself and of others, how to master piercing through the veil of perception to reality, help me be mindful of my duty and my end.

A multitude of bad men can never take away what true masonry seeks to provide.

Chris


Are you then satisfied that your proposed lodge is true, that you are all working together to be better men or does this difference render it false?

Do you believe that you can leave the doors and teachings from the Orange lodge and enter the doors and the teachings of the Masonic the following day? Can you stand by and love your devoted catholic, masonic brother after you leave the doors of those with an anti rome agenda... Not saying that you do this but I'm sure your future brethern will... Will this make your lodge true?

Do you truely feel deep in your heart that you can live by the teachings of both lodges and be a member of both the Orange and Masonic. Will this make your lodge true?

Personally I don't think so...

[macneil]

2006....:rolleyes: Oh, and it was a case that they hired the hall, not that they were in the Lodge.

Yup about 3 years ago...

"The Mason’s Fife and Kinross provincial grand master, David Wishart, said Moffat had used the Masonic Lodge in Kennoway for UDA meetings for at least 18 months. A member of the lodge who was also in the Orange Order had arranged for Moffat and his loyalist associates to hold meetings in the Kennoway lodge. Wishart insisted that no other members knew the true nature of Moffat’s activities."

QUIS SEPARABIT?

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
Men of the UDA - YouTube

[azaziel01]

My belief in freemasonry has nothing to do with orangism - the orange order is not a masonic order, it is pseudo-masonic (Mike Martin could explain it better than myself)

I believe that freemasonry accepts all faiths, creeds, colors, the only observance is that you believe in an over riding guiding principle (whether that be God, Allah..etc)

The GS form of masonry is slightly more selective, he is qualified to discuss that, I am not.

Masonry should be about dealing with men "squarely" as in justly, masonry has a fraternity (which calls for brotherly love, love with understanding, a hand to be gripped in times of trouble)

A Masonic lodge should be a place where men come together under guiding principles, nothing should divide men in this lodge - whether they be Catholic, Hindu etc.

To be honest I'm not really qualified to even say all that (as I am not a mason) it's just my 2 cents worth.

I couldn't really give a stuff what religion or political belief you have..I will still treat you as a brother (because as you and I know macneill once we go down to the pub and buy each other drinks...all differences go out the window :))

Chris

[azaziel01]

And no I don't believe a man can be a member of the orange lodges and a mason -

You can't join an group that excludes both politically and religiously (which I find disgusting!) and also be a member of a group who includes and teaches inclusivity within society.

Hope that helps

Chris

[macneil]

And no I don't believe a man can be a member of the orange lodges and a mason -

You can't join an group that excludes both politically and religiously (which I find disgusting!) and also be a member of a group who includes and teaches inclusivity within society.

Hope that helps

Chris


Thank you Chris... I don't drink but a coffee on me :)

[azaziel01]

Coffee's fine with me:)


Just to reiterate there are different forms of masonry, the UGL form, LDH (Le Droit Humane) - Co Masonry and The Grand Lodge of All England

It's an incredibly diverse topic and it's a pity that within Northern Ireland it is still associated with 'Prods only' and the orange and black institutions.


Chris

[grandsecretary]

And no I don't believe a man can be a member of the orange lodges and a mason -

You can't join an group that excludes both politically and religiously (which I find disgusting!) and also be a member of a group who includes and teaches inclusivity within society.

Hope that helps

Chris

A large percentage of Orange Lodge members are also Moderns freemasons. I have met a large number of them in my time.

[macneil]

A large percentage of Orange Lodge members are also Moderns freemasons. I have met a large number of them in my time.

Thus rendering a Masonic lodge with Orange members a crock of lies and deceipt...

More so in N.I and Scotland...

[grandsecretary]

Thus rendering a Masonic lodge with Orange members a crock of lies and deceipt...

More so in N.I and Scotland...

Why would a masonic system that is based upon rabid anti-catholicism be incompatible with Orange Lodges?

Where I come from, that is "... same meat, different gravy ..."

[macneil]

Why would a masonic system that is based upon rabid anti-catholicism be incompatible with Orange Lodges?

Where I come from, that is "... same meat, different gravy ..."

It's a bitter pill to swallow where I come from... no conspiracy all theory, this applying to both sides of the divide.

[slartibartfast]

Why would a masonic system that is based upon rabid anti-catholicism ...


Sweeping statement. Interested in some backing for that.

[azaziel01]

It all saddens me, that there are men who use and abuse a noble system for their own ends.

Chris

[kadosh]

Qualifications of an Orangeman according to the Grand Lodge of Ireland - http://www.orange-order.co.uk/chronicle/index.php

Orange Order - http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/fraternalism/orange_order.htm

[soulja]

It all saddens me, that there are men who use and abuse a noble system for their own ends.

Chris

Maybe, just maybe, the system is what's corrupt, and in turn corrupts those men who become members and therefor affected by it. All the things you said about masonry sound great, but really you don't need a lodge to live by those ideals. It's called being a good person, a good human being, you know?

Some people claim masonry was something pure, good, spiritual, at the beginning, but got corrupted later on.

How do we know though? We don't. However, all you really need to do is to look at masonry, in all it's different manifestations, at it's symbolism, it's dresscode, it's ritualistic nature, it's oaths, and all the rest. Now do you see something that, in the big picture, looks like something positive? does it seem like something a free soul would come up with? Does it look like something that benefits humanity as a whole? or at all? Does the pyramid with the all seeing eye look and feel like something spiritual to you? Who would come up with such a symbol to symbolize 'god' anyway? Does a rope around your neck seem spiritual to you? What about being blindfolded?

Masonry is elitism to the core, it's completely hierachical with most members being stuck at the lowest three degrees. It's about sworn secrecy and obedience, it's about favouring your fellow masons over your fellow humans. And if it isn't all that then how come masons have such a strong presence amongst law enforcement (from police to judge) politicians (all parties), the entertainment industry, basicly all the important and influental areas of society?

To claim this happened somehow naturally would be beyond ridiculous. That leaves us with it being intentional, a modus operandi to put masons into positions of power/influence whenever there is a opportunity. Once a mason is in a position of influence he then can fill the ranks with even more masons, and so on and so forth. That's why we have such an unproportional high amount of masons in positions of influence. It's just logical.

It's part of their agenda, it's what they do, hence the result. Now many or even most mason very well be decent, good, or even great people. The organisation as a whole, the way it operates, it's rituals, it's symbols, it's customs, it's teachings are clearly (imo) not.

Masonry is thinly veiled luciferism.

[bigscotsman]

And no I don't believe a man can be a member of the orange lodges and a mason -



yes he can

[jacob sladder]

Big Scotsman's right you know!

[macneil]

I'd be interested to know why you believe he can...

[sofa king]

I'd be interested to know why you believe he can...

because the religious beliefs of an Orangeman do not coonflict with masonry

[macneil]

because the religious beliefs of an Orangeman do not coonflict with masonry

I can see how that angle would work in theory... but do the supreme being beliefs of masony not conflict with orangeism if you can't respect your devoted catholic masonic brothers beliefs but in fact have an agenda against them?

[thelonious]

Maybe, just maybe, the system is what's corrupt, and in turn corrupts those men who become members and therefor affected by it.

Men are corrupt. Freemasonry can make a good man better, but can't make a good man out of a born knave.

Does the pyramid with the all seeing eye look and feel like something spiritual to you?

Yes.

Who would come up with such a symbol to symbolize 'god' anyway?

Pyramid builders maybe?

Does a rope around your neck seem spiritual to you? What about being blindfolded?

You, who are not a Mason, are not expected to understand the symbolic significance. The initiated, however, understand. And that's what counts.

Masonry is elitism to the core, it's completely hierachical with most members being stuck at the lowest three degrees.

Nonsense. Most Masons hold higher degrees, and those that don't can if they want to by applying for them.

It's about sworn secrecy and obedience, it's about favouring your fellow masons over your fellow humans.

Again, nonsense.

Masonry is thinly veiled luciferism.

Masonry is actually Buddhism.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/gz/zenmasonry/intro.html

[barney_rubble]

Does the pyramid with the all seeing eye look and feel like something spiritual to you?
Yes.


Who would come up with such a symbol to symbolize 'god' anyway?
Pyramid builders maybe?


From my experience in my jurisdiction the pyramid with the all seeing Eye is NOT a masonic symbol.

The "All Seeing Eye" in a triangle is used by Freemasonry but it is not a solely masonic symbol. The Eye in a triangle has been used to represent the eye of G-d for a long time in the artistic world - it means G-d is watching you so be good. The Triangle itself has long been a symbol for G-d in many religions (or so I have read I am no religious expert). Putting the eye in the triangle just means G-d is watching.

Freemasonry has borrowed an existing symbol with the Eye in a triangle (and not changed it meaning).

Some masons (more learned than I) have claimed that even the Square and Compasses were borrowed from Taoist-Buddhism as there is evidence of its use circa 500 - 250 B.C.E.
(In this case the masonic meaning is somewhat different)

http://www.templestudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/nuwafuxi.jpg

[azaziel01]

Hi folks,

My apologies, I am of course incorrect in my earlier statement - Orange men can join the craft. I have no desire to misrepresent Masonry and it was not my intention to do so.

Hope that clears matters up

Chris

[grandsecretary]

Masonry is actually Buddhism.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/gz/zenmasonry/intro.html

God forbid. Utterly clueless.

[macneil]

Qualifications of an Orangeman according to the Grand Lodge of Ireland - http://www.orange-order.co.uk/chronicle/index.php


"He should by all lawful means, resist the ascendancy of that Church, its encroachments, and the extension of its power, ever abstaining from all uncharitable words, actions or sentiments, towards his Roman Catholic brethren; "

Irish Republican Media - Orange Order March - YouTube

Making good men better....

show of strength - YouTube

Just so you clearly understand who was holding meetings for 18 months in the Kennoway Masonic Lodge, while the Masons drank at the bar of the same building.

[lightgiver]

Men are corrupt. Freemasonry can make a good man better, but can't make a good man out of a born knave.

You, who are not a Mason, are not expected to understand the symbolic significance. The initiated, however, understand. And that's what counts.

Masonry is actually Buddhism.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/gz/zenmasonry/intro.html


God forbid. Utterly clueless.





Buddha was the First Legislator

The first Masonic Legislator whose memory is preserved to us by history, was Buddha, who, about a thousand years before the Christian era, reformed the religion of Manous. He called to the Priesthood all men, without distinction of caste, who felt themselves inspired by God to instruct men. Those who so associated themselves formed a Society of Prophets under the name of Samaneans. They recognized the existence of a single uncreated God, in whose bosom everything grows, is developed and transformed




[QUOTE=grandsecretary;1157280]Not only do I believe in God but I am full of admiration for this posting with its description of Free Masonry where all men are called to the Priesthood, inspired by God to instruct men.

You are full of surprises. I hope that Mike and thelonius are reading this because now they know what a true Free Mason is, and it took a non-Mason to tell them. Ordination into the Masonic Priesthood takes place in the Holy Orders of the Royal Arch. Without this, there can be no Free Masonry.

The rituals of the Anglo-Saxon Masonic Priesthood came to York in the early 10th century with the Céli Dé Monks a Masonic Order. Their Holy Order was centered in York at St Peter's, now the York Minster. Their Order was chartered by King Athelstan in AD 926 so that all Masons would be ordained into the Masonic Priesthood, and the core rituals so to do, are still with us to this very day, promulgated by The Grand Lodge of All England.

[soulja]

Masonry is actually Buddhism.


That's by far the most ridiculous thing i've read in a long long time. There is no need to argue against your claim, as it simply can't be taken seriously.

Why would you even state such utter nonsense?