Jeremy Vine today Radio 2...CRU e mails

[hold_that_thought]

Today 12.00 GMT..Jeremy Vine show is discussing the row!!! This is it people... e mails, texts, phone calls... THIS show is one of the biggest on the Radio.. BBC Radio 2

[icarus]

Today 12.00 GMT..Jeremy Vine show is discussing the row!!! This is it people... e mails, texts, phone calls... THIS show is one of the biggest on the Radio.. BBC Radio 2

jeremy vine is total disinfo normally so should be interesting to see what a controlled parasite weasel like him has to say

i'll have a listen and note down the tricks

[hold_that_thought]

jeremy vine is total disinfo normally so should be interesting to see what a controlled parasite weasel like him has to say

i'll have a listen and note down the tricks

Why not ring up? Now is your chance.. I'm going to ring up and e mail

[cookie_dude]

Please fill me in, what are CRU emails?

[icarus]

Why not ring up? Now is your chance.. I'm going to ring up and e mail

i've tried before and they tend to know who not to let on air, me for instance

i'll listen with an open mind for a fair and honest discussion of climategate, but let's see

[oioioi]

Please fill me in, what are CRU emails?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92061

[decim]

CRU UEA Who's Who...

ClimateGate Who's Who - YouTube

[int50]

I'm listening now. I knew it would be a whitewash. They've got some incompetent fool on to defend the sceptics' side, and an articulate expert to defend the email content.

And they're only talking about one email. This is ridiculous!

[cookie_dude]

Thanks for filling me in. I've been doing my best to ignore all aspects of the media recently, it must be working.

[decim]

Bishop Hill’s compendium of CRU email issues (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/22/bishop-hills-compendium-of-cru-email-issues/)

For those of you who don’t know of the blog Bishop Hill, let me say that he is a succinct and careful writer who has earned praise from many (including myself and Steve McIntyre) in taking a difficult niche subject such as the Hockey Stick and paleoclimatology and condensed into into a readable form for the layman. He’s also writing a book about it called: The Hockey Stick Illusion (http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/11/21/the-hockey-stick-illusion.html)


In his latest post, Climate Cuttings 33, he gives a list of interesting issues he’s identified. I’ve reproduced it below for WUWT readers to consider. Be sure to visit his blog and have a look and drop an encouraging word. – Anthony.

Climate cuttings 33

If you are interested in more on global warming material, check out Caspar and the Jesus Paper (http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2008/8/11/caspar-and-the-jesus-paper.html) and The Yamal Implosion (http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/9/29/the-yamal-implosion.html), or check out the forthcoming book.

General reaction seems to be that the CRUgate emails are genuine, but with the caveat that there could be some less reliable stuff slipped in.

In the circumstances, here are some summaries of the CRUgate files. I’ll update these as and when I can. The refs are the email number.

* Phil Jones writes to University of Hull to try to stop sceptic Sonia Boehmer Christiansen using her Hull affiliation. Graham F Haughton of Hull University says its easier to push greenery there now SB-C has retired. (1256765544) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1065&filename=1256765544.txt)

* Michael Mann discusses how to destroy a journal that has published sceptic papers. (1047388489) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=295&filename=1047388489.txt)

* Tim Osborn discusses how data are truncated to stop an apparent cooling trend showing up in the results (0939154709) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=146&filename=939154709.txt). Analysis of impact here. Wow!

* Phil Jones describes the death of sceptic, John Daly, as “cheering news”.(1075403821) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=393&filename=1075403821.txt)

* Phil Jones encourages colleagues to delete information subject to FoI request.(1212063122) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=891&filename=1212063122.txt)

* Phil Jones says he has use Mann’s “Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series”…to hide the decline”. Real Climate says “hiding” was an unfortunate turn of phrase.(0942777075) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=154&filename=942777075.txt)

* Letter to The Times from climate scientists was drafted with the help of Greenpeace.(0872202064) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=32&filename=872202064.txt)

* Mann thinks he will contact BBC’s Richard Black to find out why another BBC journalist was allowed to publish a vaguely sceptical article.http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1048&filename=1255352257.txt](1255352257)[/url]

* Kevin Trenberth says they can’t account for the lack of recent warming and that it is a travesty that they can’t.(1255352257) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1048&filename=1255352257.txt)

* Tom Wigley says that Lindzen and Choi’s paper is crap.(1257532857) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1066&filename=1257532857.txt)

* Tom Wigley says that von Storch is partly to blame for sceptic papers getting published at Climate Research. Says he encourages the publication of crap science. Says they should tell publisher that the journal is being used for misinformation. Says that whether this is true or not doesn’t matter. Says they need to get editorial board to resign. Says they need to get rid of von Storch too. (1051190249) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=307&filename=1051190249.txt)

* Ben Santer says he’s “tempted, very tempted, to beat the crap” out of sceptic Pat Michaels. (1255100876)
(http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1045&filename=1255100876.txt)
* Mann tells Jones that it would be nice to ‘”contain” the putative Medieval Warm Period’. (1054736277) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=319&filename=1054736277.txt)

* Tom Wigley tells Jones that the land warming since 1980 has been twice the ocean warming and that this might be used by sceptics as evidence for urban heat islands.(1257546975) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1067&filename=1257546975.txt)

* Tom Wigley say that Keith Briffa has got himself into a mess over the Yamal chronology (although also says it’s insignificant. Wonders how Briffa explains McIntyre’s sensitivity test on Yamal and how he explains the use of a less-well replicated chronology over a better one. Wonders if he can. Says data withholding issue is hot potato, since many “good” scientists condemn it.(1254756944) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1039&filename=1254756944.txt)

* Briffa is funding Russian dendro Shiyatov, who asks him to send money to personal bank account so as to avoid tax, thereby retaining money for research.(0826209667) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1&filename=826209667.txt)

* Kevin Trenberth says climatologists are nowhere near knowing where the energy goes or what the effect of clouds is. Says nowhere balancing the energy budget. Geoengineering is not possible.(1255523796)
(http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1052&filename=1255523796.txt)
* Mann discusses tactics for screening and delaying postings at Real Climate.(1139521913) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=622&filename=1139521913.txt)

* Tom Wigley discusses how to deal with the advent of FoI law in UK. Jones says use IPR argument to hold onto code. Says data is covered by agreements with outsiders and that CRU will be “hiding behind them”.(1106338806) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=485&filename=1106338806.txt)

* Overpeck has no recollection of saying that he wanted to “get rid of the Medieval Warm Period”. Thinks he may have been quoted out of context.(1206628118) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=868&filename=1206628118.txt)

* Mann launches RealClimate to the scientific community.(1102687002) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=446&filename=1102687002.txt)

* Santer complaining about FoI requests from McIntyre. Says he expects support of Lawrence Livermore Lab management. Jones says that once support staff at CRU realised the kind of people the scientists were dealing with they became very supportive. Says the VC [vice chancellor] knows what is going on (in one case).(1228330629) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=940&filename=1228330629.txt)

* Rob Wilson concerned about upsetting Mann in a manuscript. Says he needs to word things diplomatically.(1140554230) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=645&filename=1140554230.txt)

* Briffa says he is sick to death of Mann claiming his reconstruction is tropical because it has a few poorly temp sensitive tropical proxies. Says he should regress these against something else like the “increasing trend of self-opinionated verbiage” he produces. Ed Cook agrees with problems.(1024334440)
(http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=272&filename=1024334440.txt)
* Overpeck tells Team to write emails as if they would be made public. Discussion of what to do with McIntyre finding an error in Kaufman paper. Kaufman’s admits error and wants to correct. Appears interested in Climate Audit findings.(1252164302)
(http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1011&filename=1252164302.txt)
* Jones calls Pielke Snr a prat.(1233249393) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=955&filename=1233249393.txt)

* Santer says he will no longer publish in Royal Met Soc journals if they enforce intermediate data being made available. Jones has complained to head of Royal Met Soc about new editor of Weather [why?data?] and has threatened to resign from RMS.(1237496573) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=967&filename=1237496573.txt)

* Reaction to McIntyre’s 2005 paper in GRL. Mann has challenged GRL editor-in-chief over the publication. Mann is concerned about the connections of the paper’s editor James Saiers with U Virginia [does he mean Pat Michaels?]. Tom Wigley says that if Saiers is a sceptic they should go through official GRL channels to get him ousted. (1106322460) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=484&filename=1106322460.txt) [Note to readers - Saiers was subsequently ousted]

* Later on Mann refers to the leak at GRL being plugged.(1132094873) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=591&filename=1132094873.txt)

* Jones says he’s found a way around releasing AR4 review comments to David Holland.(1210367056)
(http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=878&filename=1210367056.txt)
* Wigley says Keenan’s fraud accusation against Wang is correct. (1188557698) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=813&filename=1188557698.txt)

* Jones calls for Wahl and Ammann to try to change the received date on their alleged refutation of McIntyre [presumably so it can get into AR4](1189722851)
(http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=816&filename=1189722851.txt)
* Mann tells Jones that he is on board and that they are working towards a common goal.(0926010576) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=106&filename=926010576.txt)

* Mann sends calibration residuals for MBH99 to Osborn. Says they are pretty red, and that they shouldn’t be passed on to others, this being the kind of dirty laundry they don’t want in the hands of those who might distort it.(1059664704) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=345&filename=1059664704.txt)

* Prior to AR3 Briffa talks of pressure to produce a tidy picture of “apparent unprecedented warming in a thousand years or more in the proxy data”. [This appears to be the politics leading the science] Briffa says it was just as warm a thousand years ago.(0938018124)
(http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=136&filename=938018124.txt)
* Jones says that UK climate organisations are coordinating themselves to resist FoI. They got advice from the Information Commissioner [!](1219239172) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=914&filename=1219239172.txt)

* Mann tells Revkin that McIntyre is not to be trusted.(1254259645) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1026&filename=1254259645.txt)

* Revkin quotes von Storch as saying it is time to toss the Hockey Stick . This back in 2004.(1096382684) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=432&filename=1096382684.txt)

* Funkhouser says he’s pulled every trick up his sleeve to milk his Kyrgistan series. Doesn’t think it’s productive to juggle the chronology statistics any more than he has.(0843161829) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=12&filename=843161829.txt)

* Wigley discusses fixing an issue with sea surface temperatures in the context of making the results look both warmer but still plausible. (1254108338) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1016&filename=1254108338.txt)

* Jones says he and Kevin will keep some papers out of the next IPCC report.(1089318616) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=419&filename=1089318616.txt)

* Tom Wigley tells Mann that a figure Schmidt put together to refute Monckton is deceptive and that the match it shows of instrumental to model predictions is a fluke. Says there have been a number of dishonest presentations of model output by authors and IPCC.(1255553034) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1057&filename=1255553034.txt)

* Grant Foster putting together a critical comment on a sceptic paper. Asks for help for names of possible reviewers. Jones replies with a list of people, telling Foster they know what to say about the paper and the comment without any prompting.(1249503274) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1003&filename=1249503274.txt)

* David Parker discussing the possibility of changing the reference period for global temperature index. Thinks this shouldn’t be done because it confuses people and because it will make things look less warm.(1105019698) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=462&filename=1105019698.txt)

* Briffa discusses an sceptic article review with Ed Cook. Says that confidentially he needs to put together a case to reject it (1054756929) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=321&filename=1054756929.txt)

* Ben Santer, referring to McIntyre says he hopes Mr “I’m not entirely there in the head” will not be at the AGU.(1233249393) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=955&filename=1233249393.txt)

* Jones tells Mann that he is sending station data. Says that if McIntyre requests it under FoI he will delete it rather than hand it over. Says he will hide behind data protection laws. Says Rutherford screwed up big time by creating an FTP directory for Osborn. Says Wigley worried he will have to release his model code. Also discuss AR4 draft. Mann says paleoclimate chapter will be contentious but that the author team has the right personalities to deal with sceptics.(1107454306) (http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=490&filename=1107454306.txt)

[int50]

I can't listen anymore, my blood pressure is getting too high.

[frase]

I can't listen anymore, my blood pressure is getting too high.

Well PHONE IN THEN!!

[iwant_tobreak_free]

I can't listen anymore, my blood pressure is getting too high.

the callers are disbelievers =]

hes trying to use this science bollocks

the CRU faked the data, therefore he is discrediting himself.

"we need to use science as this is a global problem."

what he is saying is that what you see for yourself doesnt matter, trust the scientists who are better than you.

[icarus]

i've heard the first five minutes and just a few obsevations:

the skeptic was quickly introduced while the "expert" had a string of qualifications and official posts stated after his name

the skeptic has an accent, sounds like South African, while the expert is british home counties. To a British audeince, I suggest this will immediately tend to get them more on the expert side of argument. South Africn accent is also seen by some as beng harsh and connected with apartheid etc. Think of Rigs in that Mel Gibson film, south african baddies

Jeremy Vine quickly stated "that's the island that's going to be underwater soon" in agreement with the expert

the expert spoke first, and quickly said things like "largely conspiracy theory" and "very complex subject", implying too hard for us neanderthals to understand, leave it to the scientists

in response to the expert explanation of the confusion over the emails intent, Vine said "that's the best explanation I've heard so far of the emails", clear editorialising from the "impartial" host

Vine seemed to interrupt the skeptic more frequently and agressively than he interrupted the expert. the skeptic started to stutter after a few interruptions from vine

the first phone call in was from a skeptic who used a lot of "y'knows" and "innits" in his slighlty over excited speech, at one point he was muted in full rant and the expert proceeded to speak

these are just a few of what i think are tricks. any discussion on the BBC about this subject is hardly going to be impartial from an organisation that blocks children's charities and obsesses about our "heroes" in Afghanistan daily..

[int50]

Well PHONE IN THEN!!

You phone in, I'm a student and don't have a working phone. If I called in, I would have to hold a mobile upto my head for 45 mins, and that isn't happening. :D

[int50]

i've heard the first five minutes and just a few obsevations:

the skeptic was quickly introduced while the "expert" had a string of qualifications and official posts stated after his name

the skeptic has an accent, sounds like South African, while the expert is british home counties. To a British audeince, I suggest this will immediately tend to get them more on the expert side of argument. South Africn accent is also seen by some as beng harsh and connected with apartheid etc. Think of Rigs in that Mel Gibson film, south african baddies

Jeremy Vine quickly stated "that's the island that's going to be underwater soon" in agreement with the expert

the expert spoke first, and quickly said things like "largely conspiracy theory" and "very complex subject", implying too hard for us neanderthals to understand, leave it to the scientists

in response to the expert explanation of the confusion over the emails intent, Vine said "that's the best explanation I've heard so far of the emails", clear editorialising from the "impartial" host

Vine seemed to interrupt the skeptic more frequently and agressively than he interrupted the expert. the skeptic started to stutter after a few interruptions from vine

the first phone call in was from a skeptic who used a lot of "y'knows" and "innits" in his slighlty over excited speech, at one point he was muted in full rant and the expert proceeded to speak

these are just a few of what i think are tricks. any discussion on the BBC about this subject is hardly going to be impartial from an organisation that blocks children's charities and obsesses about our "heroes" in Afghanistan daily..

Ah ha, you see how it works now. The BBC are experts at perception and NLP-style tactics. All of the interviews that BBC do with regards to CRU emails are like this.

They also only concentrate on one email that's debunked and "everything is ok now? Hey audience".

[hold_that_thought]

Disappointing..there were moments that I thought JV was going to hang on to the bone and keep chewing until he got the marrow, but unfortunatly it didn't get that far.. I've e mailed the show and pointed out some of the criticisms put forward on here. I urge you to do the same..complaining is okay..but complain with a clear and concise reason WHY is better.. Look, it might come to nothing, but moaning on here in a mutual appreciation huddle isn't going anywhere..

2p supplied.. :)

[int50]

Disappointing..there were moments that I thought JV was going to hang on to the bone and keep chewing until he got the marrow, but unfortunatly it didn't get that far.. I've e mailed the show and pointed out some of the criticisms put forward on here. I urge you to do the same..complaining is okay..but complain with a clear and concise reason WHY is better.. Look, it might come to nothing, but moaning on here in a mutual appreciation huddle isn't going anywhere..

2p supplied.. :)

Don't you worry, I've emailed 5 times so far.

[decim]

Vine is a vapid freemasonic magnificent c##t & shill...he is eminently qualified to work for the whitehall mouthpiece that is the Baa Baa See.

[freedom1st]

I'm listening now. I knew it would be a whitewash. They've got some incompetent fool on to defend the sceptics' side, and an articulate expert to defend the email content.

And they're only talking about one email. This is ridiculous!

They did exactly the same on Channel 4 news the other night. The guy talking for the sceptics was an idiot and I found myself thinking it was deliberate especially with how the questions were framed so that he looked even more of an idiot. So this is the latest tactic - quite clever really.

[icarus]

Disappointing..there were moments that I thought JV was going to hang on to the bone and keep chewing until he got the marrow, but unfortunatly it didn't get that far.. I've e mailed the show and pointed out some of the criticisms put forward on here. I urge you to do the same..complaining is okay..but complain with a clear and concise reason WHY is better.. Look, it might come to nothing, but moaning on here in a mutual appreciation huddle isn't going anywhere..

2p supplied.. :)

very true, but i'm not sure emailing the bbc will have much effect either, apart from adding you to another data base

hopefuly people read our posts and start to think that we may just be onto something iwth criticisms like this

all sorts read these boards, journalists included and some of our ideas do get mirrored by them. i've seen mainstream articles lately that could have been written here.

it's not just about about preaching to the choir. this "church" has no walls and the congregation is millions

[mark1963]

Whiney Viney - what a WANKER

[int50]

Whiney Viney - what a WANKER

haha, yep.

[yozhik]

BBC have an obligation to be non-biased.
If promoting a specific cause or agenda, it is misuse of public funds; i.e fraud.

[diamond dogs]

Vine is a vapid freemasonic magnificent c##t & shill...he is eminently qualified to work for the whitehall mouthpiece that is the Baa Baa See.

I have been on his show a few times in the past but it is so biased there is no point...regular 'experts' that toe the line..SHAM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioassets/photos/2008/3/11/37971_2.jpg