Evolution is RELIGION..........

[james777]

Well, here's some hard truth for you. Evolution is religion! It's basically a religious philosophy. It's just a view in which people take to build their particular models of philosophy, science or history. Religion is a cause, principle or system of beliefs held with ardor and faith...sounds just like 'evolution' to me.....

Wow, now this can be a mojor blow to those who believe they're not religious, but live by the 'code' of evolution. Evolution seems to be a HUGE lie, with no real evidence that is ultimately leading people away from the ONE ABSOLUTE Truth.

How can you find a few bone structures burried deep in the ground and then suddenly know what kind of animal it was, what it looked like, what it's diet was......ect......this is nothing than pure speculation and make believe with NO REAL PROOF!! I could easily find some bones...lay them together and draw a picture of what it looked like, when it lived, how it lived, what it ate, how it died, but it does NOT make it true.....

[john white]

Thats true that it James

Finally a thread from you worth posting on again :)

[kashmirz]

James...

If ever, anyone was to be commended for being the most lateral thinker, i would have to say it was you.

kudos for your constant enthusiasm and researching into lateral areas

[revolutionary_jam]

yeah but no, you can make a claims like:
"Evolution is a religion" and "evolution is based on no proof"
but you've posted y no evidence backing up your own opinions, so am I meant to believe them religiously?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I disagree with you outright I'm just pointing out that so far you're preaching to the choir with john white and kashmirz (respect to the honourable posters,)

If your claims are to hold any weight you have to get the supposed evidence cited by Evolutionary "theologists"(as you might call them) and then debunk those claims. So far you've just stated an opinion.

[mr_moon]

Well, here's some hard truth for you. Evolution is religion! It's basically a religious philosophy. It's just a view in which people take to build their particular models of philosophy, science or history. Religion is a cause, principle or system of beliefs held with ardor and faith...sounds just like 'evolution' to me.....

Wow, now this can be a mojor blow to those who believe they're not religious, but live by the 'code' of evolution. Evolution seems to be a HUGE lie, with no real evidence that is ultimately leading people away from the ONE ABSOLUTE Truth.

How can you find a few bone structures burried deep in the ground and then suddenly know what kind of animal it was, what it looked like, what it's diet was......ect......this is nothing than pure speculation and make believe with NO REAL PROOF!! I could easily find some bones...lay them together and draw a picture of what it looked like, when it lived, how it lived, what it ate, how it died, but it does NOT make it true.....

You're missing one vital observation here my friend which i feel i must comment upon- evolution is a hazy area and it depends which you are referring to...

Would you be referring to physical evolution or the evolution of consciousness?

Physical evolution, in my opinion, is somewhat biased and unable to be proven in many ways. It can be speculated where we came from but not really proven.

The evolution of our consciousness however, can be tracked back in time to events and only ever experienced...

Evolution isn't a religion. Evolution in the realm of the human consciousness is actually part of our natural state of being and development. You only need to experience the power that being peaceful brings. Feeling love and joy and how it can transform your life and the lives of others.

The process we are going through in these times is about self-discovery and awareness of the inner conflicts and external conflicts occurring in our current reality.

This isn't based on some 'external' being up above or down below or wherever it may be. This is reality. This isn't God... it is the natural Energy of ALL creation and being aware that everything we know, everything we think, touch, taste, smell, feel, do, see is pure Energy! What else could it possibly be?

We are human beings made up of resonating and vibrating light and sound and some of us are in harmony, some of us are not. We can be in resonant harmony with our surroundings or we cannot.

This is how we see different groups of people in particular places at certain times because they are all resonating at the same frequency.

As our planet align, as our Universe begins to change, so do we. The frequency of the Earth, the frequency of our bodies is rising in pitch. We are experiencing new things everyday, more and more frequently than ever before. Major changes are happening every 360 days and in a few years we will be seeing them every 20...

As a race of people our Minds are becoming increasingly strained with unexpected experiences, 'time limits' and the perception of 'time' speeding up to such a degree that we can't do the things we used to or we can't do the things we want to or should do.

With these passing moments, if we don't acknowledge that this is happening (and all it is is acknowledgement and flow) then we find it increasingly difficult to deal with the emergence of a New Age.

I'm not talking about 'New Age' hippy shit- i'm talking about a very real New Age of Existence that we will be entering very soon.

How do you feel about this James? Because if you feel fear or resistance to it then let me know because it is these kinds of feelings that will disappear with the Old Age and if you stick with them...

Experience is all you need to do. Just experience it for yourself. Don't rant about it, don't ask about it, just look into your inner being and observe how the world reflects how you feel and locks you into a cycle...

You can't tell me you want to be miserable or in turmoil? Or sad or angry or stressed SURELY..?! If you do then that's your choice but if this is the case, then please take the time to experience the other side of the fence too because you never know what's over there... xxx

Much Love,

Jay
xxx

[Anders Lindman]

Sediments etc can give a good indication about how old the fossils are. And with several bones a fairy good estimation about what kind of animal and how it looked should be possible.

One strange thing I don't understand is: how the heck was DNA formed through evolution? Maybe science can explain that. But here is I think an ever trickier one: how could inorganic molecules evolve into living stuff?

[mr_moon]

Sediments etc can give a good indication about how old the fossils are. And with several bones a fairy good estimation about what kind of animal and how it looked should be possible.

One strange thing I don't understand is: how the heck was DNA formed through evolution? Maybe science can explain that. But here is I think an ever trickier one: how could inorganic molecules evolve into living stuff?

I think it's all still part of conscious evolution

[tinmenace]

You're missing one vital observation here my friend which i feel i must comment upon- evolution is a hazy area and it depends which you are referring to...

Would you be referring to physical evolution or the evolution of consciousness?

Physical evolution, in my opinion, is somewhat biased and unable to be proven in many ways. It can be speculated where we came from but not really proven.

The evolution of our consciousness however, can be tracked back in time to events and only ever experienced...

Evolution isn't a religion. Evolution in the realm of the human consciousness is actually part of our natural state of being and development. You only need to experience the power that being peaceful brings. Feeling love and joy and how it can transform your life and the lives of others.

The process we are going through in these times is about self-discovery and awareness of the inner conflicts and external conflicts occurring in our current reality.

This isn't based on some 'external' being up above or down below or wherever it may be. This is reality. This isn't God... it is the natural Energy of ALL creation and being aware that everything we know, everything we think, touch, taste, smell, feel, do, see is pure Energy! What else could it possibly be?

We are human beings made up of resonating and vibrating light and sound and some of us are in harmony, some of us are not. We can be in resonant harmony with our surroundings or we cannot.

This is how we see different groups of people in particular places at certain times because they are all resonating at the same frequency.

As our planet align, as our Universe begins to change, so do we. The frequency of the Earth, the frequency of our bodies is rising in pitch. We are experiencing new things everyday, more and more frequently than ever before. Major changes are happening every 360 days and in a few years we will be seeing them every 20...

As a race of people our Minds are becoming increasingly strained with unexpected experiences, 'time limits' and the perception of 'time' speeding up to such a degree that we can't do the things we used to or we can't do the things we want to or should do.

With these passing moments, if we don't acknowledge that this is happening (and all it is is acknowledgement and flow) then we find it increasingly difficult to deal with the emergence of a New Age.

I'm not talking about 'New Age' hippy shit- i'm talking about a very real New Age of Existence that we will be entering very soon.

How do you feel about this James? Because if you feel fear or resistance to it then let me know because it is these kinds of feelings that will disappear with the Old Age and if you stick with them...

Experience is all you need to do. Just experience it for yourself. Don't rant about it, don't ask about it, just look into your inner being and observe how the world reflects how you feel and locks you into a cycle...

You can't tell me you want to be miserable or in turmoil? Or sad or angry or stressed SURELY..?! If you do then that's your choice but if this is the case, then please take the time to experience the other side of the fence too because you never know what's over there... xxx

Much Love,

Jay
xxx



Well said.

[Anders Lindman]

I think it's all still part of conscious evolution

I just got an idea. If we look at material evolution only, then life on earth started from very simple molecules like water and simple minerals. These molecules are very basic structures. A water molecule for example is (from a purely materialistic viewpoint) simply one oxygen atom connected to two hydrogen atoms.

Today we have very powerful computers. Wouldn't it be very easy to create a computer simulation about how simple molecules formed the first most primitive forms of life? And if so, why hasn't it been done? Or has it been done? I haven't heard about such simulations.

[seanx]

ultimately leading people away from the ONE ABSOLUTE Truth.

Now.....I wonder what this ONE ABSOLUTE truth is????

Unforunately, no prizes for the right answer!

[lifeofbrian]

DO THE EVOLUTION - YouTube

[mr_moon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoNmNmXExZ8

That's happy! hehe

[lifeofbrian]

That's happy! hehe

It's what humans do.

Often in the name of religion.

Aren't we just Infinite Love?

[cheeb]

Well, here's some hard truth for you. Evolution is religion! It's basically a religious philosophy. It's just a view in which people take to build their particular models of philosophy, science or history. Religion is a cause, principle or system of beliefs held with ardor and faith...sounds just like 'evolution' to me.....

Wow, now this can be a mojor blow to those who believe they're not religious, but live by the 'code' of evolution. Evolution seems to be a HUGE lie, with no real evidence that is ultimately leading people away from the ONE ABSOLUTE Truth.

How can you find a few bone structures burried deep in the ground and then suddenly know what kind of animal it was, what it looked like, what it's diet was......ect......this is nothing than pure speculation and make believe with NO REAL PROOF!! I could easily find some bones...lay them together and draw a picture of what it looked like, when it lived, how it lived, what it ate, how it died, but it does NOT make it true.....

Yeah Right:
It says so in the Bible,
And can be worked out to the hour,

James Ussher, the Anglican Archbishop,
Worked out that the earth was created on
Sunday evening,October23rd,4004B.C
It's in the bible it must be true.

Man, lived alongside Dinosaurs,Behemoths and Leviathan,

And Satan, put all the fossils there,
to confuse evolutionists, and John White(LOL)

Kent Hovind explains it better:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKQu16wRMqk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKQu16wRMqk
Feel free to waste 2 hours of your life!!!

[mada88]

Its based on hinduism, do christians still believe the world is 12,000 years old?

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. hey dude, check it out the world is growing man.

[mahabaratara]

Then where does Spirituality fit in...?

[cheeb]

Then where does Spirituality fit in...?

In the bit that comes under Psychology,
Big Monkey throw shit at little monkey,
Big monkey agressor,
Little monkey poor me,
Spirituality= poorly thought out Karma,
Karma without consequence!!!

:eek:

[yinon]

Why we should not have religion? In my opinion, any dogamatic system comes to be used for the desire of these aliens which is initially, to imprison humanity.
If love becomes the foundations of our world, they will not be able to remain here. They are allergic to any overflowing of true tenderness.

Anarchism does not appear the ideal solution for me because human kind lost his love connection with the natural world.

Humans are lost kids in despair. They were mislaid.

[yinon]

http://www.reflectionsinthenight.com/grey_aliens_files/image002.jpg



The clan of cats are their emissaries, here on this plan

They are everywhere and block the efforts of those which would wish to see this world released

They promote technological evolution and want to take control of our Planet by robotizing human beings. They want to create a race of subjected slaves.

[phoebe]

This isn't based on some 'external' being up above or down below or wherever it may be. This is reality. This isn't God... it is the natural Energy of ALL creation and being aware that everything we know, everything we think, touch, taste, smell, feel, do, see is pure Energy! What else could it possibly be?

What's god if it isn't what you describe here?

[yinon]

How to recognize the CLAN OF CATS?

- channelling

- numerology

- astrology

- new-age

- angels

- yoga - reiki - meditation

- religious freak

- god and satan believers

- ............ add more if you wish

[yinon]

Don't forget! They will do whatever is possible for them to destroy women. They don't need us anymore.

The machine is their new womb....

How they operate to destroy women?
Through Krishna? . He spreads lies on each one of them to be sure he disempowers women. Don't listen him. He is their first emmissary. They are all sick around him.

Lol

Poor ass hole

[yinon]

http://blog.doctissimo.fr/php/blog/zestroyella/images/baby5_54231.jpg

That's why they support homosexuality in the shadow

That's why Krishna isolate us all through lies. They don't want to see us come together.

He is a test tube baby himself. He won't betray his creator

Gosh! What a fucking mess!

[yinon]

Krishna promotes the twin soul theory on many websites. He is playing the guy who loves women. Here's the lie. He doesn't. He loves the MACHINE. HE has a machine brain, a machine heart, a machine soul.....

Even if man and woman belongs together, he is using the theory to his advantage. He showed us that he cares about the twin soul theory but he first wants to destroy our human soul....

[yinon]

He first wants to destroy our human power!!!!!

[kblood]

I once talked with a christian who was very much into christian beliefs. She did not believe in different stages of evolution, or that some might be more evolved mentally or spiritually than others. No reincarnation. Apparantly all she saw life as is living, dying and then going to heaven or hell, and then possible later heaven after being in hell.

So much of what she believed in really made me think she was brainwashed by that christian group she came from, along with her boyfriend.

Get this: Healing comes from the devil. To use healing and other spiritual powers is to give into the devil. I really had a hard time seeing the logic in this. At least she was a good person doing lots of good deeds, but it doesnt make her any less brainwashed in my eyes. Sounded alot like Islam... either you follow Islam and are allowed into heaven, or you do not follow it, and are doomed to hell and damnation. Riiiight... I just cannot see how that is logical or true. Neither how it is good and loving.

So some religions (when probably very misunderstood) does not believe in evolution. Believing everything is as it is meant to be right now, and not meant to evolve in any way... really seems blind to me.

[james777]

yeah but no, you can make a claims like:
"Evolution is a religion" and "evolution is based on no proof"
but you've posted y no evidence backing up your own opinions, so am I meant to believe them religiously?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I disagree with you outright I'm just pointing out that so far you're preaching to the choir with john white and kashmirz (respect to the honourable posters,)

If your claims are to hold any weight you have to get the supposed evidence cited by Evolutionary "theologists"(as you might call them) and then debunk those claims. So far you've just stated an opinion.

The main thing here is that there is NO REAL PROOF of evolution. It's all subjective opinions. You cannot PROVE the PAST. All you have is the present! This is why evolution is NO MORE than another religion. I don't have to have facts to point out the OBVIOUS!


Would you be referring to physical evolution or the evolution of consciousness?



Jay
xxx

I'm referring to physical evolution.

Sediments etc can give a good indication about how old the fossils are. And with several bones a fairy good estimation about what kind of animal and how it looked should be possible.

Based on WHAT though??? No man is over 150 years old, so how can he even begin to gauge time?? If he uses his opinions then yes, of course, no problem......he can come up with any scenario he wants...

One strange thing I don't understand is: how the heck was DNA formed through evolution? Maybe science can explain that. But here is I think an ever trickier one: how could inorganic molecules evolve into living stuff?

Simple....it wasn't. DNA has been coded since the CREATION of man. Science can not explain what it's scientists don't believe. Inorganic molecules cannot evolve into living stuff......

How to recognize the CLAN OF CATS?

- channelling

- numerology

- astrology

- new-age

- angels

- yoga - reiki - meditation

- religious freak

- god and satan believers

- ............ add more if you wish

What the Hell are you on? Can you explain this Clan Of Cats???

[mr_moon]

What the Hell are you on? Can you explain this Clan Of Cats???

* Top Cat ("TC")
* Benny the Ball
* Brain
* Choo Choo
* Fancy-Fancy
* Spook
* Officer Dibble
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Topcat.jpg

[kblood]

What part of physical evolution dont you believe then? That we do not evolve physically? That we havent changed at all since we became what we today call humans? That animals do not have species that came from other species?

I do not understand your claims in this post, or see much logic to it. As I see it, everything evolves quite obviously, now, then, tomorrow... and quite obviously. Both physically, conciously and spiritually. Maybe not everything evolves into something better, but that doesnt change the fact that it does.

You need to define what you call evolving before I can understand what it is you are claiming James.

Nice post by the way :)

[Anders Lindman]

Based on WHAT though??? No man is over 150 years old, so how can he even begin to gauge time?? If he uses his opinions then yes, of course, no problem......he can come up with any scenario he wants...


A person can himself of herself watch over the years how sediments get layered year after year. And that can be extrapolated for rocks with sediments that are much older than the lifespan of a person.

[megafish33]

I'm surprised people still believed this. Evolution isn't debated in science, what is debated is how it happened, not if it did or didn't happen. :rolleyes:

There is no "micro-evolution" and "macro-evolution." It's just "evolution." There is plenty of proof. Evolution itself isn't a conspiracy against us.

One can feel religious about the current theory of evolution, but that doesn't automatically make it a religion like Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Christianity.

[s1lm]

James you're right, and this pathetic troll-hunt against you is tiresome. Evolution is a theory, nothing more.

[seanx]

James you're right, and this pathetic troll-hunt against you is tiresome. Evolution is a theory, nothing more.

There is a wise old saying that goes...'Say nothing until you hear
more'.

Do some reading about the above spammer
before you start making judgments.

[yinon]

What the Hell are you on? Can you explain this Clan Of Cats???[/QUOTE]

Cat Eyes

http://www.reflectionsinthenight.com/grey_aliens_files/image002.jpg


KitKAT website on twin souls

Cat Clans -Their armoiries

http://www.mzv.cz/servis/soubor.asp?id=19


Their king = KRISHNA number One - Victim of their medicine


The old illusion forum

The old flashback international forum

[james777]

COLOR][/B]What part of physical evolution dont you believe then? I don't believe we started as frozen rock colliding in outer space and then landing on the surface of earth and randomly changing from 'soup' to 'human' with no intelligent design involved. I don't believe that we're long anscestors of apes, gorilla's or chimpanzee's. That we do not evolve physically? That we havent changed at all since we became what we today call humans? Of course we've changed, but not our species, not our DNA....reptiles are reptiles, mammals are mammals...ect...... That animals do not have species that came from other species? What animal species came from other species?

Nice post by the way :)

A person can himself of herself watch over the years how sediments get layered year after year. And that can be extrapolated for rocks with sediments that are much older than the lifespan of a person.

Right, based on WHAT though?? Humans haven't been around for millions of years collecting this data, so how do they determine that certain rocks or whatever are millions of years old.....there is NO PROOF....all speculation, belief, faith....that's why Evolution is RELIGION

I'm surprised people still believed this. Evolution isn't debated in science, what is debated is how it happened, not if it did or didn't happen. :rolleyes:

There is no "micro-evolution" and "macro-evolution." It's just "evolution." There is plenty of proof. Evolution itself isn't a conspiracy against us.

One can feel religious about the current theory of evolution, but that doesn't automatically make it a religion like Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Christianity.

The simple fact that you have to believe this with no evidence makes it RELIGION.......

[yinon]

Many kinds of Ferrari on Earth.... Some with nothing inside and a marvellous body....Exactly what the KITKAT clan wants!!!!


You can have a True Ferrari . When you ask for true power, she will answer really fast


You made the wrong choice sold souls!!!!!


Pray Maria now!!!!

[james777]

Many kinds of Ferrari on Earth.... Some with nothing inside and a marvellous body....Exactly what the KITKAT clan wants!!!!


You can have a True Ferrari . When you ask for true power, she will answer really fast


You made the wrong choice sold souls!!!!!


Pray Maria now!!!!

Wierd.........

[i am all i am]

The simple fact that you have to believe this with no evidence makes it RELIGION.......

I LOVE YOU.

G'day James777.

Welcome back from your 'holiday' !!!

I agree with you, believing in something "with no evidence makes it a RELIGION" is a perfect description of not only evolution, but also the self proclaimed religions of the world, and we all know what they are.....

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2783/jesusspammingchristtf3.jpg

THANK YOU.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[rasnalgoul]

james are those your real eyes? in the icon?

[kblood]

What animal species came from other species?
Lets take dogs f.ex. They of course did not start out as being pets for humans. The dogs we have as pets today must have come from wolves, that probably came to human camps and lived from leftovers, and after that became hunting partners with humans. Today dogs have smaller brains, since they do not have to use as much of their brains when living with humans. Wolves still have a larger brain, and stronger senses, because they need to use it to survive in the wild.


Right, based on WHAT though?? Humans haven't been around for millions of years collecting this data, so how do they determine that certain rocks or whatever are millions of years old.....there is NO PROOF....all speculation, belief, faith....that's why Evolution is RELIGION
There are several ways to determine how old something is. There are many tests that can be made on f.ex. rocks or trees to determine their age. I do not know if they just made up these ways of determining somethings age to just play with our minds... but why? Why would people even waste their time trying, if they did not test their ways of researching it?

The simple fact that you have to believe this with no evidence makes it RELIGION.......

You base all this off the fact that you do not believe in their evidence. For me to believe what you say is true, then please find something to disprove the common ways to determine age of a rock or whatever else they find in digs. As far as I know, they determine age by depth, some kind chemical tests and probably a few other methods as well.

I do not remember the names for any of the tests they run, but you really do not believe in us or anything else actually evolving? If so, we are alot less like animals than first believed... if that was ever believed.

But what you are saying seems to indicate that we are already perfect, made in the image of god or something like that. I cannot really deny it or confirm it in any way, but I do know animals are evolving and changing alot. In our lifetime alone, species has come and gone. Havent you seen how some like to breed certain races of dogs into having flatter noses, being smaller and so on? What about bonzai trees? Also it has been well known for a long time, how to make new kinds of plants. I think we have known how to "crossbreed" plants for 200 years or more...

But you do not call any of this physical evolution? We all adapt to our enviroment. Especially when given enough years and generations to do so. All this said, I do not really believe we were once apes either. Not enough evidence found that we and abes are all that similar. If we came from abes, then I do believe that more abes ought to have evolved into humans within the last 2000 years, and there should have been evidence about it, and no evidence have ever been found to prove that humans descended from apes. Alot of evidence to prove it has been manufactured though.

[cheeb]

Wierd.........

De-Volution!!!

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2329/6hhmq2rsk0.gif

[edit]

De-Volution!!!

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2329/6hhmq2rsk0.gifApril 17, 2007
Consciousness in the Single Neuron (http://sci-con.org/2007/04/consciousness-in-the-single-neuron/#comments)
SCR Feature, neuroscience, perception — alice @ 11:45 am

http://sci-con.org/uploads/2007/04/20070401.jpg
Are the contents of conscious perception tied to individual brain cells? Can we use single neurons to determine someone’s subjective experience? A recent studies published in PNAS suggests otherwise: there are no specialized neurons that carry information about what enters awareness and what not. If one holds the picture of a butterfly in front of one eye and the image of an apple before the other, the brain gets into a deep dilemma. It must integrate the contradictory pictures to a meaningful whole. This situation inevitably leads to a fascinating phenomenon called “binocular rivalry“. During rivalry, perception alternates between the picture shown to one eye and that shown to the other one. In other words, the butterfly will be seen during some moments and the apple during others. It is as if the brain is unable to decide which eye to trust, and therefore constantly wavers back and forth between them.

stimulus-dependent activity patterns that are decisive for what reaches conscious awareness and what does notThere are neurons in the visual cortex, which become strongly active for certain pictures (such as that of a butterfly), but not for others. If one measures the activity of such a cell by means of tiny electrodes, it is often possible to determine which stimulus gets perceived at any moment during binocular rivalry. Interestingly, however, some cells do not seem to be affected by the spontaneous perceptual changes during binocular rivalry. Instead, they truthfully indicate that the stimulus that activates them is constantly present, regardless whether it is perceived or not. This observation raises the question of whether there are individual brain cells that differ in their characteristics from other cells so that their activity stands in direct connection with what we consciously perceive. To answer this question, scientists at the Max Planck Institute at Tuebingen, Germany repeated the experiment using another trick. After all, while one sees a certain image with one eye, one can replace the image in the other eye, without affecting awareness. The question was, would this manipulation nonetheless affect neuronal activity? To the surprise of the researchers, any exchange of the pictures had large effects on the activity of the recorded neurons. In fact, many cells lost their special characteristic and showed no more activity fluctuations during perceptual alternations. Other cells, however, which had been unaffected by perception before, began to indicate the perceptual alternation of the stimuli.

Whether an individual brain cell participates in conscious experiencing or not therefore seems to be flexibly determined. Based on these results, it is conceivable that it is not only fixed interconnections between neurons, but also stimulus-dependent activity patterns that are decisive for what reaches conscious awareness and what does not.

Author Information
Alex Maier was a graduate student at the Max Planck Institute for Biological Cybernetics in Tübingen, Germany. He is now a researcher within the Unit on Cognitive Neurophysiology and Imaging at the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, MD.

References
Alexander Maier, Nikos K. Logothetis, and David A. Leopold Context-dependent perceptual modulation of single neurons in primate visual cortex, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
ABSTRACT Some neurons in the visual cortex alter their spiking rate according to the perceptual interpretation of an observed stimulus, rather than its physical structure alone. Experiments in monkeys have suggested that, although the proportion of neurons showing this effect differs greatly between cortical areas, this proportion remains similar across different stimuli. These findings have raised the intriguing question of whether the same neurons always participate in the disambiguation of sensory patterns and whether such neurons might represent a special class of cortical cells that relay perceptual signals to higher cortical areas. Here we explore this question by measuring activity in the middle temporal cortex of monkeys and asking to what degree the percept-related responses of individual neurons depend upon the specific sensory input. In contrast to our expectations, we found that even small differences in the stimuli led to significant changes in the signaling of the perceptual state by single neurons. We conclude that nearly all feature-responsive neurons in this area, rather than a select subset, can contribute to the resolution of sensory conflict, and that the role of individual cells in signaling the perceptual outcome is tightly linked to the fine details of the stimuli involved.

[james777]

You base all this off the fact that you do not believe in their evidence. For me to believe what you say is true, then please find something to disprove the common ways to determine age of a rock or whatever else they find in digs. As far as I know, they determine age by depth, some kind chemical tests and probably a few other methods as well.

I do not remember the names for any of the tests they run, but you really do not believe in us or anything else actually evolving? If so, we are alot less like animals than first believed... if that was ever believed.

But what you are saying seems to indicate that we are already perfect, made in the image of god or something like that. I cannot really deny it or confirm it in any way, but I do know animals are evolving and changing alot. In our lifetime alone, species has come and gone. Havent you seen how some like to breed certain races of dogs into having flatter noses, being smaller and so on? What about bonzai trees? Also it has been well known for a long time, how to make new kinds of plants. I think we have known how to "crossbreed" plants for 200 years or more...

But you do not call any of this physical evolution? We all adapt to our enviroment. Especially when given enough years and generations to do so. All this said, I do not really believe we were once apes either. Not enough evidence found that we and abes are all that similar. If we came from abes, then I do believe that more abes ought to have evolved into humans within the last 2000 years, and there should have been evidence about it, and no evidence have ever been found to prove that humans descended from apes. Alot of evidence to prove it has been manufactured though.

I get what you're saying, but cross breeding plants and animals and 'adaptive behaviors' have nothing to do with evolution......it's not like the dogs that were wolves turned into reptiles over the years....or turned into humans.......

Most people refuse to believe in a God/Creation scenario and it makes them work hard and dedicate their lives to proving the God/Creationism wrong. That's why they would run tests and come up with results that favor the 'pre-conceptions' they already have.........see, science is never fair because it involves what the human practicing it already believes......

[soglad]

So james777............what do you think about virus strains and epidemics that EVOLVE to bypass the vaccinations??

Or would you prefer not to think about that because you've spent your whole life defending creationism? :confused:

[james777]

I LOVE YOU.

G'day James777.

Welcome back from your 'holiday' !!!

I agree with you, believing in something "with no evidence makes it a RELIGION" is a perfect description of not only evolution, but also the self proclaimed religions of the world, and we all know what they are.....

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2783/jesusspammingchristtf3.jpg

THANK YOU.

Yes mate..........we agree.......

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

james are those your real eyes? in the icon?

Yes, they are my real eyes........u like them??

[james777]

So james777............what do you think about virus strains and epidemics that EVOLVE to bypass the vaccinations??

Or would you prefer not to think about that because you've spent your whole life defending creationism? :confused:

I think that's 'adaptive living'.......now if the Virus turned into a pigeon, then, well, hey.........I must be wrong about creation.....

[cheeb]

April 17, 2007
Consciousness in the Single Neuron (http://sci-con.org/2007/04/consciousness-in-the-single-neuron/#comments)
SCR Feature, neuroscience, perception — alice @ 11:45 am

http://sci-con.org/uploads/2007/04/20070401.jpg
Are the contents of conscious perception tied to individual brain cells? Can we use single neurons to determine someone’s subjective experience? A recent studies published in PNAS suggests otherwise: there are no specialized neurons that carry information about what enters awareness and what not. If one holds the picture of a butterfly in front of one eye and the image of an apple before the other, the brain gets into a deep dilemma. It must integrate the contradictory pictures to a meaningful whole. This situation inevitably leads to a fascinating phenomenon called “binocular rivalry“. During rivalry, perception alternates between the picture shown to one eye and that shown to the other one. In other words, the butterfly will be seen during some moments and the apple during others. It is as if the brain is unable to decide which eye to trust, and therefore constantly wavers back and forth between them.

stimulus-dependent activity patterns that are decisive for what reaches conscious awareness and what does notThere are neurons in the visual cortex, which become strongly active for certain pictures (such as that of a butterfly), but not for others. If one measures the activity of such a cell by means of tiny electrodes, it is often possible to determine which stimulus gets perceived at any moment during binocular rivalry. Interestingly, however, some cells do not seem to be affected by the spontaneous perceptual changes during binocular rivalry. Instead, they truthfully indicate that the stimulus that activates them is constantly present, regardless whether it is perceived or not. This observation raises the question of whether there are individual brain cells that differ in their characteristics from other cells so that their activity stands in direct connection with what we consciously perceive. To answer this question, scientists at the Max Planck Institute at Tuebingen, Germany repeated the experiment using another trick. After all, while one sees a certain image with one eye, one can replace the image in the other eye, without affecting awareness. The question was, would this manipulation nonetheless affect neuronal activity? To the surprise of the researchers, any exchange of the pictures had large effects on the activity of the recorded neurons. In fact, many cells lost their special characteristic and showed no more activity fluctuations during perceptual alternations. Other cells, however, which had been unaffected by perception before, began to indicate the perceptual alternation of the stimuli.

Whether an individual brain cell participates in conscious experiencing or not therefore seems to be flexibly determined. Based on these results, it is conceivable that it is not only fixed interconnections between neurons, but also stimulus-dependent activity patterns that are decisive for what reaches conscious awareness and what does not.

Author Information
Alex Maier was a graduate student at the Max Planck Institute for Biological Cybernetics in Tübingen, Germany. He is now a researcher within the Unit on Cognitive Neurophysiology and Imaging at the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, MD.

References
Alexander Maier, Nikos K. Logothetis, and David A. Leopold Context-dependent perceptual modulation of single neurons in primate visual cortex, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
ABSTRACT Some neurons in the visual cortex alter their spiking rate according to the perceptual interpretation of an observed stimulus, rather than its physical structure alone. Experiments in monkeys have suggested that, although the proportion of neurons showing this effect differs greatly between cortical areas, this proportion remains similar across different stimuli. These findings have raised the intriguing question of whether the same neurons always participate in the disambiguation of sensory patterns and whether such neurons might represent a special class of cortical cells that relay perceptual signals to higher cortical areas. Here we explore this question by measuring activity in the middle temporal cortex of monkeys and asking to what degree the percept-related responses of individual neurons depend upon the specific sensory input. In contrast to our expectations, we found that even small differences in the stimuli led to significant changes in the signaling of the perceptual state by single neurons. We conclude that nearly all feature-responsive neurons in this area, rather than a select subset, can contribute to the resolution of sensory conflict, and that the role of individual cells in signaling the perceptual outcome is tightly linked to the fine details of the stimuli involved.

Thats What I Was Getting At,
The Phenotype Is Contained,
In A Single Strand Of DNA,
23 Chromosomes From Your Mother,
23 Chromosomes From Your Father.:

If That Is What You Mean About,
A Neuron Being Holistic???

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6201/hhs8kh0.jpg

[soglad]

I think that's 'adaptive living'.......now if the Virus turned into a pigeon, then, well, hey.........I must be wrong about creation.....

"Adaptive Living"? So basically evolution with consideration towards location and time? hehehe

Also, evolution is a VEEEERY long process, so, it is unfair of you to expect to see a virus form into a Pigeon in a few months.

Next time you're in the doctors, let's see how well they can treat you, since viruses and illnesses EVOLVE all the time.....but you don't believe that so.....ah well...

[yinon]

Ferrari HEART

http://www.ferrari-event-agentur.de/images/motor-ferrari-355-spider.jpg

[yinon]

My body not that bad really!


http://www.fochesato.com/chevalcabre.gif

Diplômé Ferrari MOTOR!!!!!!

[Anders Lindman]

Right, based on WHAT though?? Humans haven't been around for millions of years collecting this data, so how do they determine that certain rocks or whatever are millions of years old.....there is NO PROOF....all speculation, belief, faith....that's why Evolution is RELIGION


In wood we can recognize the years as layers like an onion. I imagine that sediments have similar features so that each year can be counted.

[cheeb]

My body not that bad really!


http://www.fochesato.com/chevalcabre.gif

Diplômé Ferrari MOTOR!!!!!!

I inheretid a lazy gene:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5958/donkeyzu2.jpg

:eek:

[tinmenace]

Sorry Cheeb, borrowing that photo for another thread ;)

[tinmenace]

So now James is banned for daring to be contrary.... I am considering whether cancel my subscription now.

Trust your intuition. It'll never lead you wrong.

[cheeb]

Sorry Cheeb, borrowing that photo for another thread ;)

If you turn it around,
It doesn't happen to spell out Allah,
Does It!!!
:eek:

[tinmenace]

Well my next payment goes out on September 21, so I'll cancel on the 20th. It's a shame this place has disinformers as moderators and regular posters, you can't be free here, people are banned or 'ranted' and troll-hunted for not towing the line.

That's quite and accusation, but whatever feels is right for you....:)

[kblood]

I get what you're saying, but cross breeding plants and animals and 'adaptive behaviors' have nothing to do with evolution......it's not like the dogs that were wolves turned into reptiles over the years....or turned into humans.......

Most people refuse to believe in a God/Creation scenario and it makes them work hard and dedicate their lives to proving the God/Creationism wrong. That's why they would run tests and come up with results that favor the 'pre-conceptions' they already have.........see, science is never fair because it involves what the human practicing it already believes......

I am not saying that I do not believe that everything evolved from from more primitive lifeforms. In fact, I do believe there are quite a few higher beings, that are able to materialise themselves on our plane of existance at will. Therefore they should also be able to create new species quite easily as well. So what you call evolution is that you will not believe it unless a reptile evolves into a dog?

I used dog as an example, because they are one of the species we have seen evolve or at least "change" and "adapt" in our recorded history. Therefore I see it as very possible that f.ex. elephants must come from mammoth and so on. Do you believe it is gods intervention every time a new species evolve?

I am not saying every species there is had to evolve from from others, but I do believe most of them are species that have adapted from other species into what they are now. We humans seem to be a species that for some reason arent evolved into being humans. I do not know wether that is because we are gods creations or alien experiments, but we do seem to be a species that havent evolved on this planet, like so many other species obviously have as I see it.

It sounds to me like you expect "evolution" to be a dog walking down the road, then becomming a monkey, then becomming a human and then go have a cup of coffee... if not you simply wont believe it?

I guess you wont answer this anytime soon being banned and all... I guess I will have to look into why you have been banned.

[kblood]

Well my next payment goes out on September 21, so I'll cancel on the 20th. It's a shame this place has disinformers as moderators and regular posters, you can't be free here, people are banned or 'ranted' and troll-hunted for not towing the line.

Yea, that is what James777 wants everyone to believe apparantly. I thought he might have come back and maybe make some more interesting threads, where he actually explained what he was on about. But no...

If you look into what James777 has "contributed" to this forum, you would find that it mostly was just ranting. I do not remember J777 give good links about what he is writing about, he usually bases his arguments quite loosely on something he seemingly just made up and thought funny or clever. Many times he does not even write about what he believes in himself, because he is trying to prove some point by making other solve some time wasting riddle of his, usually without telling anyone about the rules or intent behind it.

If the probably long awaited banning of James777 is enough for you to leave, then you probably havent much to offer this forum either. Or maybe you are James777?, who finally had his will, and got banned. He has even made a whole thread about him wanting to be banned, and now he got his wish fulfilled.

I still do not understand James777 motives or reasons to waste his time on a forum like this. I am not sure what he wanted or gained from being here, but from what I can tell James777 has acted alot more like a disinformant agent than anyone else I can think of on this forum.

[seanx]

Slime wrote:
So now James is banned for daring to be contrary.... I am considering whether cancel my subscription now

Cheerio then!

But....just two points:

One positive: if your'not James himself - which you probably are
under a different name - but let's be less cynical now -
remember the advice: 'Don't say nothing until you hear
more'. i.e. read al the information you can before
you make a decision - otherwise people like James 77777
will have you for breakfast.

Now, the negative one: Mr. James, or this alias you're using - Slim
- how can I put this in polite language: **** ***

[megafish33]

COLOR][/B]



Right, based on WHAT though?? Humans haven't been around for millions of years collecting this data, so how do they determine that certain rocks or whatever are millions of years old.....there is NO PROOF....all speculation, belief, faith....that's why Evolution is RELIGION



The simple fact that you have to believe this with no evidence makes it RELIGION.......

Uhhhhhh sorry buddy, that's what science is all about. This talk of "no evidence" is really comical since there is tons of evidence. lol

I will say that we don't have all the answers, but I won't say that what we see from our observations and data is just imaginary fairytail make believe... that require me having faith, which isn't required in understanding evolution, not today in 2007.

[kblood]

Uhhhhhh sorry buddy, that's what science is all about. This talk of "no evidence" is really comical since there is tons of evidence. lol

I will say that we don't have all the answers, but I won't say that what we see from our observations and data is just imaginary fairytail make believe... that require me having faith, which isn't required in understanding evolution, not today in 2007.

Exactly... Quite a few of James777 topics are based on unsubstantial stuff like this. It might be a good way to get a thread going, but it still makes it all the more confusing when he posts so much nonsense.

[tinmenace]

... but it still makes it all the more confusing when he posts so much nonsense.

That's the point :(

[mr_moon]

I'm confused... :P

[tinmenace]

:D

[mentalogirl]

I was actually surprised time and time again as to how or why he had not been banned before.This to me speaks volumes about the degree of freedom on this forum.
I was quite happy to engage in discussions on the threads he started,or even read them.But I have to say the guy is totally self-obsessed,no matter how valid his points can be.It gets tiresome:eek:

[tinmenace]

...It gets tiresome:eek:

His goal exactly....:(

[yinon]

Evolution of The Natural Matrix - The Heart Love freak

http://www.shortnorth.com/bigheartlegsBIG.jpg


Evolution of The Maria - Twin soul Clan- Brainwashed clan

http://www.intuac.com/userport/john/fijiart/clinton2.jpg

Their tube babies are truly clever

http://simulconsult.com/resources/images/HeadCircumference.jpg

[bigus_dickus]

hehe, when i saw the topic i thought that it meant that religion is the cutting edge of evolution. :D

on a side note, here is what the dictionaries say about the notion:

evolve (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=evolution&searchmode=none)
1641, "to unfold, open out, expand," from L. evolvere "unroll," from ex- "out" + volvere "to roll" (see vulva). Evolution (1622), originally meant "unrolling of a book;" it first was used in the modern scientific sense 1832 by Scot. geologist Charles Lyell. Charles Darwin used the word only once, in the closing paragraph of "The Origin of Species" (1859), and preferred descent with modification, in part because evolution already had been used in the 18c. homunculus theory of embryological development (first proposed under this name by Bonnet, 1762), in part because it carried a sense of "progress" not found in Darwin's idea. But Victorian belief in progress prevailed (along with brevity), and Herbert Spencer and other biologists popularized evolution.

[cheeb]

What if:
The universe is made up of,
Hydrogen atoms,
As a basic building block structure,
The stuff of stars,
What if :
the universe wants to experience ,
itself as conciousness,
as carbon based,
The Universe,
longs for a personality,
And gets it,
In chemical/biological ,
meat sacs,
An Atom with a purpose,

:eek:

[seanx]

What if:
The universe is made up of,
Hydrogen atoms,
As a basic building block structure,
The stuff of stars,
What if :
the universe wants to experience ,
itself as conciousness,
as carbon based,
The Universe,
longs for a personality,
And gets it,
In chemical/biological ,
meat sacs,
An Atom with a purpose


Extraordinary idea, beautifully put.

Is this the same as saying that that chemistry is,
in some way 'alive', even to an extent 'conscious'.

Or, am I on the wrong track here.

That what we see as dead, inert, dull chemistry is in fact,
consciousness, enjoying and experiencing itself as
these responsive chemicals. That we are looking at a living
miracle everyday in even the simpliest chemical

[synergy777]

nature is not random, its perfectly designed, hence a creator. from the milky way, to storms, to shells, the fibonacci and solfeggio. this proves the creator exists.

[cheeb]

nature is not random, its perfectly designed, hence a creator. from the milky way, to storms, to shells, the fibonacci and solfeggio. this proves the creator exists.

And fibionacci mathematics,
Is not the creator,
But the signature of the creator!!!

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2638/movgoldenmeanti8.gif

The golden mean!!
;)

[megafish33]

nature is not random, its perfectly designed, hence a creator. from the milky way, to storms, to shells, the fibonacci and solfeggio. this proves the creator exists.

Synergy, are you serious? It's perfect because it IS, not because it was designed a certain way. The bowl I had my soup in, designed. My denim pants, designed (and over fucking priced). My cell phone, designed. A rock of infinite possibility, not designed. A storm, not designed(currently, if it's naturally occurring). Of course, there could be alien lifeforms designing life all over the universe and even helping with the formation of planetary systems and jump starting the biologies there, but these aliens evolved over time.

seanx: yeah of course! Many people feel that chemist, and other scientists who see evolution as factual, are emotionless nuts but they aren't! Evolution isn't about taking some gods glory away. It's so misinterpreted. Evolution is about beauty, and how it got to be that way. I gotta run but just search it out meditatively. Plenty of scientists feel that the universe is alive with intent, conscienceness and love. They also try to spread it, it's just that they feel the best way they can spread love and make the world go round is to understand their surroundings, and they want to observe it empirically, the best way they can.

[synergy777]

intelligent design, to me shows a creator is involved. you hold your opinion, i will hold mine.

[synergy777]

who designed your phone, the result of panspermia, or a random act lol

[megafish33]

who designed your phone, the result of panspermia, or a random act lol

Evolution -> bigger brain -> awareness of market opp./usefulness -> designed at Samsung -> consumers buy

Ok so I skipped a few things along the way, but you get the idea ;)

Cheers