Irish Churches covered up endemic abuse

[decode reality]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20091126/tts-uk-ireland-abuse-ca02f96.html

[decode reality]

How times change. Sinead O' Connor lifted the lid on it and she got slaughtered.

(Mods: feel free to move the topic to the Satanism/child abuse forum if necessary.)

[amaralsright]

Where was God?

[decode reality]

Where was God?

Left the premises, I reckon...

[candygirl]

god gave up

[rhydra]

After readong what happened, one Priest abusing hundreds of kids, I think that the Catholic Church should be banned. It's not enough saying "Oh I'm sorry, lessons have been learned, it' won't happen again."

No, I think that all they will do is find better ways of covering it up, make sure that they won't get caught, if they do that they know the right people to get them off the hook.

They are very clever abusers, they like the power, that's what makes them harder to catch than most criminals, especially if they are among other like minded individuals in an organisation which seems to be built on abuse of all forms.

[meet my maker]

Where was God?

He's currently shining a light on Evil.

Luke 8:17 KJV
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad

[rollotomaz1]

A lot of those churches would make great houses, lets have a few for the victims families, and use the stone to build some nice properties for the homeless, they have more than enough to go around which they are cribbing they cannot afford the fee for a new fecking roof, how blind are we, they are stuffing us from both ends, when we are born and again when we die.

[amaralsright]

He's currently shining a light on Evil.

Why didn't he reach down and flick the heads off the evil bastards.

Much better than shining a light.

God could stop them couldn't he?

What's the point of being all knowing and all powerful and then sitting there watching your representative on earth abusing innocent children?

[decode reality]

Why didn't he reach down and flick the heads off the evil bastards.

Much better than shining a light.

God could stop them couldn't he?

What's the point of being all knowing and all powerful and then sitting there watching your representative on earth abusing innocent children?

What comes to mind is that as human beings, we have free will- which is often misused in either extremely sick ways such as this, or in relatively harmless ways.

It would be interesting to hear a priest answer your question.

[rodin]

After readong what happened, one Priest abusing hundreds of kids, I think that the Catholic Church should be banned. It's not enough saying "Oh I'm sorry, lessons have been learned, it' won't happen again."

No, I think that all they will do is find better ways of covering it up, make sure that they won't get caught, if they do that they know the right people to get them off the hook.

They are very clever abusers, they like the power, that's what makes them harder to catch than most criminals, especially if they are among other like minded individuals in an organisation which seems to be built on abuse of all forms.

And what about rabbi organ traffickers? Should their religion get banned too?

[candygirl]

What comes to mind is that as human beings, we have free will- which is often misused in either extremely sick ways such as this, or in relatively harmless ways.

It would be interesting to hear a priest answer your question.
Yes it would indeed.

[amaralsright]

What comes to mind is that as human beings, we have free will- which is often misused in either extremely sick ways such as this, or in relatively harmless ways.

It would be interesting to hear a priest answer your question.

Free will.

Yeah.. according to the church you are free to choose to do God's will or burn forever in hell.

Yeah.. free will.

Remember he loves you though.

Hobson's choice.

[amaralsright]

What comes to mind is that as human beings, we have free will- .

To add... this is the same God who killed millions in a great flood, killed tens of thousands of first born in Egypt, told Joshua to kill the original occupants of Palestine.

He can't reach down and flick the head of an evil bastard abusing a child?

He did stuff in the past.

Supposedly.

[candygirl]

maybe religons house of cards is now falling and this was Gods intention to make all religons take stock and see the truth about the evil within.
I do agree one asks how can a God allow this to happen i ask is this "how can a God allow war fammine" i suppose the one thing we were given as humans was free will something god cannot meddle with.If one human decides with free will to harm another well that human who harmed another will get back what they gave out i suppose this life experience is just a speck compared with the bigger picture.
Or maybe it's god teaching us all a very valuable lesson??? who knows?
I'd like to know where god was when i needed him/her when these sorts of terriable things where happening to myself.
I'm glad the truth is out finally at last.

[meet my maker]

Why didn't he reach down and flick the heads off the evil bastards.

Much better than shining a light.

God could stop them couldn't he?

What's the point of being all knowing and all powerful and then sitting there watching your representative on earth abusing innocent children?


.God could stop them couldn't he? God gives freewill to mankind without that choice it would be a dictatorship. We have been given the rules and shown the example of Christ, if only we would live by it.

What's the point of being all knowing and all powerful and then sitting there watching your representative on earth abusing innocent children? Who says they are his representative's

[rollotomaz1]

Free will.

Yeah.. according to the church you are free to choose to do God's will or burn forever in hell.

Yeah.. free will.

Remember he loves you though.

Hobson's choice.

I always thought their saying was, if you wore a condom you would go to hell.

Look at this happy crowd, they never wore them

Every Sperm is Sacred - YouTube

[rhydra]

And what about rabbi organ traffickers? Should their religion get banned too?

If it's part of and endemic to that religion, yes. See, I'm not biased!

I wouldn't be that sad to see the end of all theistic religions to be honest.

[decode reality]

Free will.

Yeah.. according to the church you are free to choose to do God's will or burn forever in hell.

Yeah.. free will.

Remember he loves you though.

Hobson's choice.

If God's will simply means "doing the true and right thing" well..... As Meet My Maker is saying, those priests/institutions aren't representatives of anything but the opposite. I think it should be plainly obvious from history/present day that organised religion has played the role of creating organised chaos, mainly.

[decode reality]

maybe religons house of cards is now falling and this was Gods intention to make all religons take stock and see the truth about the evil within.
I do agree one asks how can a God allow this to happen i ask is this "how can a God allow war fammine" i suppose the one thing we were given as humans was free will something god cannot meddle with.If one human decides with free will to harm another well that human who harmed another will get back what they gave out i suppose this life experience is just a speck compared with the bigger picture.
Or maybe it's god teaching us all a very valuable lesson??? who knows?
I'd like to know where god was when i needed him/her when these sorts of terriable things where happening to myself.
I'm glad the truth is out finally at last.

I wouldn't like to be the one to answer those questions. It would take someone with great wisdom to make sense of those issues you've mentioned.

Regarding this particular story- to me, there are two things at work:

I think due to this 'awakening' that's happening in different ways, more people over the past decade or so have had the courage to come forward and let the world know what has happened to them.

Along with that (going by the Protocols of Zion's desire to eradicate religion) the elite are allowing these stories to come forward to undermine people's faith in the church, in this case.

(btw, I say "the past decade" but it's been going on much longer obviously!)

[dangermouse]

covered here

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/abuse.html



Secrecy in canon law
1.27 Most officials in the Archdiocese were, however, greatly exercised by the provisions of canon law which deal with secrecy. It was often spoken of as a reason for not informing the Gardaí about known criminal offences.
1.28 A similar „culture of secrecy‟ was identified by the Attorney General for Massachusetts in his report on child sexual abuse in the Boston Archdiocese.5 In the case of that diocese, as in the case of Dublin, secrecy “protected the institution at the expense of children.”
1.29 One aspect of this was the refusal to acknowledge or recognise an allegation of child sexual abuse unless it was made in strong and explicit terms. There were some anonymous reports which were ignored. A number of bishops heard suspicions and concerns but they did not take the obvious steps of asking precisely what was involved or challenging the priest concerned. A mother who contacted the Archdiocese to report that her daughter had been abused as a child was told that the daughter would have to make the complaint. When the mother made it clear that the daughter was unlikely to be able to make such a complaint, she was not even asked for the name of the priest.

[talulah]

These beast priests worship their leader.

Ladies and Gentlemen,here he is the Anti Christ himself...

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/12/25/pope_benedict_narrowweb__300x390,0.jpg

[kitler]

Hang The Pope by Nuclear Assault

Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang him with a fucking rope

Lets go to the Vatican
And drag him out of bed
Tie a rope around his neck
And hang him till he's dead

Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang the pope

[candygirl]

They'll just only get another pope if we hang the present one.
demolish the belief system of the religon might work???
How do we do that?
Not with Common purpose that's for sure.
Good rhyme though:)

[decode reality]

They'll just only get another pope if we hang the present one.
demolish the belief system of the religon might work???
How do we do that?
Not with Common purpose that's for sure.
Good rhyme though:)

I think it's doing a pretty good job at imploding anyway.

[realy]

After readong what happened, one Priest abusing hundreds of kids, I think that the Catholic Church should be banned. It's not enough saying "Oh I'm sorry, lessons have been learned, it' won't happen again."

No, I think that all they will do is find better ways of covering it up, make sure that they won't get caught, if they do that they know the right people to get them off the hook.

They are very clever abusers, they like the power, that's what makes them harder to catch than most criminals, especially if they are among other like minded individuals in an organisation which seems to be built on abuse of all forms.

I agree 100% !!

[realy]

Hang The Pope by Nuclear Assault

Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang him with a fucking rope

Lets go to the Vatican
And drag him out of bed
Tie a rope around his neck
And hang him till he's dead

Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang the pope
Hang the pope

aha yeah i been into nuclear assault since 87 ahaha great song hang them high!!

[amaralsright]

.God could stop them couldn't he? [B]God gives freewill to mankind without that choice it would be a dictatorship.

You're talking as if God never interferes.

You know that's not true.

The Old Testament is full of him directly killing people because they did bad things.

So the story goes.

[amaralsright]

Ladies and Gentlemen,here he is the Anti Christ himself...


You're as bad as them.

You are preaching there is an anti-Christ.

Same shit, different foot.

[talulah]

You're as bad as them.

You are preaching there is an anti-Christ.

Same shit, different foot.

Your the only one whos preaching here,that is my opinion end of.

Oh aye and for the record i aint no beast.

Compute?

[amaralsright]

Your the only one whos preaching here,

Am I insisting there actually is an anti-christ?

Based on what evidence is there a real anti-christ?

The same "evidence" that the people you are pointing the finger at has used for 2,000 years.

You're the same.

Am I going to hell?

[meet my maker]

You're talking as if God never interferes.

You know that's not true.

The Old Testament is full of him directly killing people because they did bad things.

So the story goes.

Mankind turns its face away from God. If we would follow Christ's example we could respond to defeat the Evil of this world. The hierarchical control systems have been corrupted, now they will be let off the leash and will consume themselves. Those people who have been commiting acts of Evil are going to recieve an attitude adjustment.

[oneup]

Where was God?

Drooling as he was watching

[amaralsright]

According to Christian beliefs, he was watching.

[oneup]

According to Christian beliefs, he was watching.

Then what was he doing?

[amaralsright]

Then what was he doing?

Allowing it to happen.

[kitler]

Then what was he doing?

Holding the camera

[meet my maker]

The veil is being lifted. This Babylonian hierarchical control system is going to fall. Every Evil act will be revealed and will be repaid with interest.

[pureheart]

I went to Catholic schools. One of the nuns regularly hit the pupils. She hit me really hard once for falling over in country-dancing. My hand swelled up to twice it's size. It made me so angry that the school would let her keep on bullying children when they were supposed to believe in God.

That's why I'm now agnostic. :p

[amaralsright]

Why doesn't God torch the Vatican like he torched Soddam and Gormorah?

He does have a track record in this matter.

He sat there and watched these priests doing these horrible things.

I don't want to hear any arguments about "free will" because it doesn't apply with this God as according to the Bible he directly drowned (a whole world), burned, inflicted plague, induced heart attacks and zapped people who did "bad" things.

[meet my maker]

I went to Catholic schools. One of the nuns regularly hit the pupils. She hit me really hard once for falling over in country-dancing. My hand swelled up to twice it's size. It made me so angry that the school would let her keep on bullying children when they were supposed to believe in God.

That's why I'm now agnostic. :p

The wolf is in control of the flock not the shepard. For now!

[amaralsright]

The wolf is in control of the flock not the shepard. For now!

Yeah the all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful shepard is just letting it happen.

[meet my maker]

Why doesn't God torch the Vatican like he torched Soddam and Gormorah?

He does have a track record in this matter.

He sat there and watched these priests doing these horrible things.

I don't want to hear any arguments about "free will" because it doesn't apply with this God as according to the Bible he directly drowned (a whole world), burned, inflicted plague, induced heart attacks and zapped people who did "bad" things.

You are very impatient to wish to witness the Wrath of God. There appears to be a lot of bad seed who are traitors to Mankind and God. They will receive Judgement.

[amaralsright]

You are very impatient to wish to witness the Wrath of God. There appears to be a lot of bad seed who are traitors to Mankind and God. They will receive Judgement.

No, I'm just pointing out the craziness of using "free will" as an excuse for God's inaction.

It's nonsense.

According to the Bible, God has no problem killing people directly who step out of line.

He even kills people as part of a bet with the Devil (see Job).

So God was watching all this evil and decided to let it carry on when in the past he would have flicked the heads off these wrong-doers.

[banphrionsalola]

prime time did a story on it last night and it was extremely upsetting to say the least. especially since the church AND the gardai helped cover it up for so long. it makes me sick to my stomach. i grew up in the 80's and was very involved in the church was an altar girl and helped out alot in the parochial house with the priests. i'm horrified to think that this was going on back then and how much i trusted them so much. i just hope the poor people who were abused find some sort of peace and the catholic church is brought to justice once and for all. ireland really needs some healing :(

[meet my maker]

No, I'm just pointing out the craziness of using "free will" as an excuse for God's inaction.

It's nonsense.

According to the Bible, God has no problem killing people directly who step out of line.

He even kills people as part of a bet with the Devil (see Job).

So God was watching all this evil and decided to let it carry on when in the past he would have flicked the heads off these wrong-doers.

Mankind has understanding of Good and Evil. It knows in its soul what is right and wrong. This life is the test to see which path we choose. These priests have chosen wickedness. There has been horrific Evil inflicted on Mankind, the power structures have always been under the control of Evil. They have been undermining the morales of men to the point that good men do nothing and become complicit with Evil.
Who knows maybe he will use a global conflict to remove those who are consumed with Evil.

[amaralsright]

So when you going to address the issue of God sitting watching and doing nothing?

[meet my maker]

So when you going to address the issue of God sitting watching and doing nothing?

Imagine if he interfered with every act of Evil. What would be the point of our existence if there was no choice ?

[amaralsright]

Imagine if he interfered with every act of Evil. What would be the point of our existence if there was no choice ?

He once wiped every human being out except 8, didn't he?

[meet my maker]

He once wiped every human being out except 8, didn't he?

This time the word of Christs teachings has spread across the world. Those who believe in his sacrifice will not suffer the second death and will be saved. If the Devil knew what God was up to, he would never have killed Christ.

[amaralsright]

Ok, avoid the issue.

[meet my maker]

Ok, avoid the issue.
Its not avoiding the issue . If you dont have choice what do you have?

[amaralsright]

Its not avoiding the issue . If you dont have choice what do you have?

So what choice did people have at the time of Noah?

The old, the infirm, the ignorant, the stupid, the mentally handicapped, the unborn babies in the womb?

According to the Bible God has no problem killing people on a whim (or even as a bet).

So he sat there watching these Priests and let the children suffer?

[meet my maker]

So what choice did people have at the time of Noah?

The old, the infirm, the ignorant, the stupid, the mentally handicapped, the unborn babies in the womb?

According to the Bible God has no problem killing people on a whim (or even as a bet).

So he sat there watching these Priests and let the children suffer?

The whole world was consumed with Evil the devil and his brethern were on the earth, God needed to wipe them out to start again with Noah. The devil hates God and his creation and will go to any lengths to destroy Gods work. All who are an abomination to God will feel his wrath . The last destruction of the Earth will be peaceful compared with whats coming.

[amaralsright]

So you agree according the the Bible God does interfere with free will and kill people doing evil.

There's no rule that says he can't.

So, he sat and watched these children being abused when there was nothing to stop him zapping them (or killing them and making it look natural... or anything).

[meet my maker]

So you agree according the the Bible God does interfere with free will and kill people doing evil.

There's no rule that says he can't.

So, he sat and watched these children being abused when there was nothing to stop him zapping them (or killing them and making it look natural... or anything).

God has witnessed worse atrocities against Mankind, death by the millions. It is all leading to the undeniable conclusion that when we turn from God the devil gains control of the Earth. When people surender morality then he will have complete dominion over them. Then may God have mercy on their souls.

[meet my maker]

If we were righteous people, those priests would have been terrified of the concequences of their actions. Each evil act makes the picture clearer to the world.

[amaralsright]

OR...

God isn't watching and all those stories about him are myth.

All you got is excuses.

[meet my maker]

OR...

God isn't watching and all those stories about him are myth.

All you got is excuses.

This system is on the brink of collapse. We are going to learn the true nature of reality . Do not let pride get in the way of your path to God.

[amaralsright]

If I can snatch the stone from your hand can I leave the temple?

[meet my maker]

If I can snatch the stone from your hand can I leave the temple?

Mankind's heart is hardening, so the time draws near.

Thessalonians 2:3 KJV
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

[charlieboy]

I attended an all boys boarding school in Newry,co. Down,N.Ireland for 5 years.This was in the early eighties and the principal of that school was a well respected,much loved Priest who was also a sick,perverted,peadophile Beast.I'm now in my early forties and the hair stands up on my neck with the very thought of this animal!!

This priest used to come into the study of the school and pick a particular boy to go with him and celebrate daily mass.Very innocent looking,perhaps even slightly effemanate CHILD of eleven.

For all you non catholic members of this forumn,let me explain that there is a part of the catholic mass where each participant of the mass "offer each other the sign of peace." Now in the every day public mass the people simply shake each others hands.But this would not suffice for Fr, F.......

Oh No!!!! This f---n' animal raped this eleven year old boy at this time during the Private Mass.He buggered and soiled pupils in that school for 40 years or more!!!
When He retired He was given a large parish 10 miles from Newry and was made Parish Priest.This position made this Beast a very wealthy man.

The Bishops{plural} knew about this animal yet not only did they hide the sick details from the public,they promoted the C--T!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This Beast died a lonely alcoholic 20 miles from the school in which He raped and molested kids for years.
I personally sat outside this Beasts house in a very rural location in Co.Down and contemplated murdering him.I'm not ashamed to say that I was terrified of this man even in my thirties.He had a certain evil aura around him and I could always feel this Presence when I was in his company.

I personally know of 5 people who were raped at this school during the 50s & 60s,70s & 80s and can only say that it contained one of the most evil bastards that ever lived and N.Ireland has had it's fair share of pyschopaths over the years.

My only hope is that this is "The Time of SHIVA",and that all the rot that has gathered over the years will finally come to light and that the poor bastards that were on the end of this will get some peace in their lives.
I once heard a medium channeling an old guide who likened this time to a forest fire.He meant that it had to burn itself out in order for it to stop.We can send loving thoughts to those affected but what will be will be.

Personally I can't help but have a quiet chuckle at the Cardinals and Bishops on the television trying to salvage some form of dignity whilst all around them the Proverbial is hitting the fan.
I think it was Tony Bushby that wrote "the fall of the catholic church will not come from the stroke of a sword but the stroke of a PEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As for those of you wondering where GOD was or is during all of this Filth???????? HESHE is all around you,within you,waiting to be expressed in the most beautiful,awe inspiring sight you have ever dreamed possible.
Believe it people,We are the ones We have been waiting for!!!!!!;);)

[decode reality]

I attended an all boys boarding school in Newry,co. Down,N.Ireland for 5 years.This was in the early eighties and the principal of that school was a well respected,much loved Priest who was also a sick,perverted,peadophile Beast.I'm now in my early forties and the hair stands up on my neck with the very thought of this animal!!

This priest used to come into the study of the school and pick a particular boy to go with him and celebrate daily mass.Very innocent looking,perhaps even slightly effemanate CHILD of eleven.

For all you non catholic members of this forumn,let me explain that there is a part of the catholic mass where each participant of the mass "offer each other the sign of peace." Now in the every day public mass the people simply shake each others hands.But this would not suffice for Fr, F.......

Oh No!!!! This f---n' animal raped this eleven year old boy at this time during the Private Mass.He buggered and soiled pupils in that school for 40 years or more!!!
When He retired He was given a large parish 10 miles from Newry and was made Parish Priest.This position made this Beast a very wealthy man.

The Bishops{plural} knew about this animal yet not only did they hide the sick details from the public,they promoted the C--T!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This Beast died a lonely alcoholic 20 miles from the school in which He raped and molested kids for years.
I personally sat outside this Beasts house in a very rural location in Co.Down and contemplated murdering him.I'm not ashamed to say that I was terrified of this man even in my thirties.He had a certain evil aura around him and I could always feel this Presence when I was in his company.

I personally know of 5 people who were raped at this school during the 50s & 60s,70s & 80s and can only say that it contained one of the most evil bastards that ever lived and N.Ireland has had it's fair share of pyschopaths over the years.

My only hope is that this is "The Time of SHIVA",and that all the rot that has gathered over the years will finally come to light and that the poor bastards that were on the end of this will get some peace in their lives.
I once heard a medium channeling an old guide who likened this time to a forest fire.He meant that it had to burn itself out in order for it to stop.We can send loving thoughts to those affected but what will be will be.

Personally I can't help but have a quiet chuckle at the Cardinals and Bishops on the television trying to salvage some form of dignity whilst all around them the Proverbial is hitting the fan.
I think it was Tony Bushby that wrote "the fall of the catholic church will not come from the stroke of a sword but the stroke of a PEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As for those of you wondering where GOD was or is during all of this Filth???????? HESHE is all around you,within you,waiting to be expressed in the most beautiful,awe inspiring sight you have ever dreamed possible.
Believe it people,We are the ones We have been waiting for!!!!!!;);)

Thanks for your post. :)

I went to a catholic school and I recall at the age of ten when a school teacher was dismissed from my junior school. I remember kids told me he'd been sacked for some slang term or other (which I didn't 'get'until many years later!)...I recall the teacher as being very aggressive and most children were scared of him.

I remember nuns taught us as well....some of them very cold pieces of work indeed. People bemoan the fact that children aren't given corporal punishment today but back in the 70s, some of those teachers were sadists, they truly were. We should never go back to that.

I wonder where this leaves Catholics? I doubt I'd be re-commissioning Songs of Praise if I ran the Beeb. Yet they do, year in year out. Best not go there....

[realy]

sodom and gomorrah have nothing on the vatican and its priesthood and thats real.

[marpat]

Where was God?

Well according to Pope Innocent the holy spirit leave any place where sex takes place because, according to him, acts of sex are inherently evil. I wonder if it is a case of these people thinking that because sex is evil then it makes no odds what they do as it is all bad anyway. They can then confess their sins and be forgiven and keep going round. Not only that, they can just claim satan made them do it and shift all blame from themselves.

[oneup]

Holding the camera

Whahaha :D:D

[griswald]

Seems the list of people defecting from the catholic church on the website is increasing,

http://www.countmeout.ie/

Take a stand for church-state separation
The Count Me Out website is a source of information for those considering leaving the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). For many who no longer practise, remaining "lapsed" is not sufficient; a clean break is needed

griswald

[decode reality]

Well according to Pope Innocent the holy spirit leave any place where sex takes place because, according to him, acts of sex are inherently evil. I wonder if it is a case of these people thinking that because sex is evil then it makes no odds what they do as it is all bad anyway. They can then confess their sins and be forgiven and keep going round. Not only that, they can just claim satan made them do it and shift all blame from themselves.

Pope "Innocent" (a misnomer, surely?) and "Saint" Augustine have a lot to answer for!

[amethyst]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20091126/tts-uk-ireland-abuse-ca02f96.html

I wonder what is worse: the terrible abuse of innocent children, or the covering up of the terrible abuse by the "church"

Abusing "all in the name of "God" mind you.....

Guess that evil religious system will reap what it has sown.....

[amaralsright]

Seems the list of people defecting from the catholic church on the website is increasing,griswald

Speaking as a Catholic who still goes to mass (??? yeah it's complicated)... I think the Catholic Church has finally blown it and has absolutely no credibility.

Which is a shame.

Because some of the finest human beings I ever met were sincere Catholics and there are people in the Catholic Church who do an immense work that society would sorely miss if they were not there.

[griswald]

Speaking as a Catholic who still goes to mass (??? yeah it's complicated)... I think the Catholic Church has finally blown it and has absolutely no credibility.

Which is a shame.

Because some of the finest human beings I ever met were sincere Catholics and there are people in the Catholic Church who do an immense work that society would sorely miss if they were not there.


Lets not forget a lot of sincere catholics who participated in the cover up of abuse, by their silence. Priests knowing it was going on and doing nothing, are equally guilty.

And the catholic churches ability to persecute indigonous societies worldwide , all in the name of god. Thats a whole other thread.

The shame is, it will continue .

griswald

[rollotomaz1]

Well according to Pope Innocent the holy spirit leave any place where sex takes place because, according to him, acts of sex are inherently evil. I wonder if it is a case of these people thinking that because sex is evil then it makes no odds what they do as it is all bad anyway. They can then confess their sins and be forgiven and keep going round. Not only that, they can just claim satan made them do it and shift all blame from themselves.

Mathew 18:6

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

[amethyst]

Lets not forget a lot of sincere catholics who participated in the cover up of abuse, by their silence. Priests knowing it was going on and doing nothing, are equally guilty.

And the catholic churches ability to persecute indigonous societies worldwide , all in the name of god. Thats a whole other thread.

The shame is, it will continue .

griswald

Yep.

Shows what a truely sick, evil system this religion is....as all man-made formulaic institutions (religious and others) are, that lack LIFE but promote DEATH! They just put a cloak of "respectability" over a cancerous sore.....the sore is not healing......

Nothing spiritual about it..

If they'd just let the priest get married and have sex, I don't think (as much) of the abuse would go on......but that still wouldn't make the death system any better...but it might make some the priests a little more satisfied.

[amaralsright]

Lets not forget a lot of sincere catholics who participated in the cover up of abuse, by their silence. Priests knowing it was going on and doing nothing, are equally guilty.

And the catholic churches ability to persecute indigonous societies worldwide , all in the name of god. Thats a whole other thread.

The shame is, it will continue .

griswald

If you're trying to say most Catholics were in on it, you're wrong, most were unaware of the horror of it.

But Catholicism is a busted flush, so maybe it's moot.

[amethyst]

Well according to Pope Innocent the holy spirit leave any place where sex takes place because, according to him, acts of sex are inherently evil. I wonder if it is a case of these people thinking that because sex is evil then it makes no odds what they do as it is all bad anyway. They can then confess their sins and be forgiven and keep going round. Not only that, they can just claim satan made them do it and shift all blame from themselves.

Pope "innocent" = hypocrite

And what would he know about sex except in it's abusive form?

[amethyst]

If you're trying to say most Catholics were in on it, you're wrong, most were unaware of the horror of it.

But Catholicism is a busted flush, so maybe it's moot.

I don't think he was saying that...he was just calling a spade a spade

[griswald]

If you're trying to say most Catholics were in on it, you're wrong, most were unaware of the horror of it.

But Catholicism is a busted flush, so maybe it's moot.

Most catholics that became aware of it did nothing, except attend mass every sunday , and financially support the pedophile institution. And did nothing when the government of the day, ahern and woods, gave the religous institutions a sweetheart deal, in allowing them a way out of reparation to the victims.

I would assume that most priests considered them selves good catholics, and yes I would say they were aware of it, and kept silent. Their problem was they put the protection of the catholic church first, and the protection of the victims last.

I think the damage done by catholicism far out ways any benefit from it, their casualties lie around on a worldwide scale.

We should be supporting each other, not institutions, religious or otherwise.

griswald

[amaralsright]

Most catholics that became aware of it did nothing, except attend mass every sunday , and financially support the pedophile institution. And did nothing when the government of the day, ahern and woods, gave the religous institutions a sweetheart deal, in allowing them a way out of reparation to the victims.

I would assume that most priests considered them selves good catholics, and yes I would say they were aware of it, and kept silent. Their problem was they put the protection of the catholic church first, and the protection of the victims last.

I think the damage done by catholicism far out ways any benefit from it, their casualties lie around on a worldwide scale.

We should be supporting each other, not institutions, religious or otherwise.

griswald

You have to work out how much ambulance chasing has been going on first.

The extent of what was happening is debatable especially in Ireland where financial compensation has been offered with little in the way of proof having to be provided.

I'm not denying there has been abuse, I am dubious about some of the claims.

[griswald]

You have to work out how much ambulance chasing has been going on first.

The extent of what was happening is debatable especially in Ireland where financial compensation has been offered with little in the way of proof having to be provided.

I'm not denying there has been abuse, I am dubious about some of the claims.

Spoken like a true catholic. I,m shocked that you are in a state of denial about what your religious institution has done to generations of children. I think your church has failed to bestow any compassion on you , when you make statements like you have done.


Maybe you should read the Murphy report, or the Ryan report, and it might enlighten you to what has been going on.

The web is full of facts on religious abuse towards children, here,s one.

Griswald

http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex6.htm

How common is the abuse?
In moral panics, as in wars, truth is often the first victim. There is massive speculation about the scope of the abuse. But there is also an almost complete lack of reliable data. Much heat is being generated, and very little light. Some claim that sexual abuse by priests is quite common; others claim that: "There is no good data either from the general population or from the priesthood about numbers of pedophiles or people who have a vulnerability that increases their risk to children. The issue of sexuality, particularly of people who may have unusual kinds of sexual cravings, has been one that society has tended to sweep under the carpet. Getting that data is terribly important, but as of now I know of no systematic surveys that would allow us to come to any firm conclusions." 6 Two widely circulated estimates suggest that approximately 2% to 6% of Roman Catholic priests abuse children and youths. This compares with other common estimates: that perhaps 1% of all adults and 2% of all adult males are abusive pedophiles. However, priests have freer access to many children than does the average male. His position of authority and trust can facilitate abuse. Thus the number of abused young people per abusive priest may well be larger than for the average molester. William Reid has written that "careful studies have indicated...that child molesters commit an average of sixty offenses for every incident that comes to public attention." 7 But Thomas Fox estimates that the "average pedophile priest abuses 285 victims."

[amaralsright]

Up to 2005 in Ireland if you could convince the Residential Institutions Redress Board that you had been abused you stood to win up to 300,000 euros, the board paid on average 78,000 euros each to 2,555 victims.

This was not a court of law and the "board" you went before consisted of two people like a judge and a doctor.

The rules of evidence were not exacting.

Just thought you'd like to know what has been going on.

[amethyst]

Most catholics that became aware of it did nothing, except attend mass every sunday , and financially support the pedophile institution. And did nothing when the government of the day, ahern and woods, gave the religous institutions a sweetheart deal, in allowing them a way out of reparation to the victims.

I would assume that most priests considered them selves good catholics, and yes I would say they were aware of it, and kept silent. Their problem was they put the protection of the catholic church first, and the protection of the victims last.

I think the damage done by catholicism far out ways any benefit from it, their casualties lie around on a worldwide scale.

We should be supporting each other, not institutions, religious or otherwise.

griswald

You would hope that those who did know brought it to the attention of the media and/or made a quick exit from that oppressive institution. But many catholics I know have been so brainwashed into not speaking against "a man of the cloth" that they just go into denial mode and pretend its not as bad as they think.

"Father" so and so wouldn't do that" :rolleyes: Oh really?

Guilt and fear and oppression are a very strong forces (REAL spiritual forces IMO) in the catholic institution.

[griswald]

Up to 2005 in Ireland if you could convince the Residential Institutions Redress Board that you had been abused you stood to win up to 300,000 euros, the board paid on average 78,000 euros each to 2,555 victims.

This was not a court of law and the "board" you went before consisted of two people like a judge and a doctor.

The rules of evidence were not exacting.

Just thought you'd like to know what has been going on.


I am well aware of what has been going on. You want to sing the same tune that your church has been singing for decades. It could not be happening.

The trouble is , it has been happening, and thank god for the courage of the victims, its out in the open. And hopefully every diocese in the country will be rigorously examined, and the perpertrators severely dealt with.

Your statements are an insult to the survivors of this horrific abuse. Where as you would like to err on the side of the perpertrators, I think we should err on the side of the victims, and give them the justice they deserve.

griswald

[amethyst]

We should be supporting each other, not institutions, religious or otherwise.

Couldn't agree more!

[amaralsright]

I am well aware of what has been going on. You want to sing the same tune that your church has been singing for decades. It could not be happening.

Read my previous posts and apologise! You have completely (and deliberately) misrepresented what I have said.

If you think the offer of large rewards for stories of abuse doesn't compromise the process then you're a bit naive.

[amethyst]

Guys, guys, will ANY amount of money solve the problem of priests abusing children? Money is not the issue...that's just blood money (Judas money)to shut people up from talking about the abuse...

It's DENIAL that is the real problem issue that is REALLY going on in the protected catholic institution, that passes itself off as "holy"......

And it stinks to high heaven.......

[amaralsright]

It's DENIAL that is the real problem issue that is REALLY going on in the protected catholic institution, that passes itself off as "holy"......

Some people are denying that dangling large rewards in front of people compromises the process.

I am not denying abuse.

I personally knew three priests who ended up in prision, and rightly so.

However, there was a bit of an incentive in Ireland to come forward - I wish people would be honest enough to admit that instead of being blinded by the rush to condemn religion.

I have already stated that the Catholic Church has no credibility theologically or even morally, but there are good people within it still, quietly doing fantastic work in parishes up and down the country, visiting and watching out for people that others on this forum have no idea exist.

[amethyst]

Some people are denying that dangling large rewards in front of people compromises the process.

I am not denying abuse.

I personally knew three priests who ended up in prision, and rightly so.

However, there was a bit of an incentive in Ireland to come forward - I wish people would be honest enough to admit that instead of being blinded by the rush to condemn religion.

I have already stated that the Catholic Church has no credibility theologically or even morally, but there are good people within it still, quietly doing fantastic work in parishes up and down the country, visiting and watching out for people that others on this forum have no idea exist.

Of course, there are good people in every corrupt institution....but eventually, if those good people have their eyes open...they will realise that the institution that they work for is working against them....undermining all the good that they actually do for the beast......

So, they have to make a choice to "come out" of babs, or else they too will go down with the ship....bab's (the whore) days are numbered....

[amaralsright]

Maybe they should join some other sect that isn't theologically bankrupt.

[griswald]

Read my previous posts and apologise! You have completely (and deliberately) misrepresented what I have said.

If you think the offer of large rewards for stories of abuse doesn't compromise the process then you're a bit naive.

If you have proof of false statements and accusations resulting in payment among the 100,s of abuse victims, post them up. No doubt you will find 100,s of false statements and accusations from the catholic institutions to match them.

Incidentally what in particular would you like me to apologise for.

You should apologise for insinuating that false accusations are being made by victims for monetary gain. Have you got any proof of that happening across the board.

You are naive to think that this report represents the full and final disclosure of the persecution of innocent children. Until we have an investigation of all the diocese, we wont know the full depth of depravity inflicted on these poor souls.

As outlined in this report, and previous reports, both here in Ireland, and worldwide, the catholic institutions are masters at cover ups, and will continue to do so.

Being a catholic is nothing to be proud of in ireland, there is too much pain and suffering associated with the word now.

This institution needs to be brought down , the quicker the better.

griswald

[amethyst]

Maybe they should join some other sect that isn't theologically bankrupt.

There is no sect or religious institution that isn't theologically bankrupt or corrupt.....

But......

"supporting each other, not institutions, religious or otherwise" is where it's at

[amaralsright]

Incidentally what in particular would you like me to apologise for.

For saying I was in denial, I'm patently not.

However your view of human nature is most definitely naive.

78,000 euros is a lot of money.

[griswald]

For saying I was in denial, I'm patently not.

However your view of human nature is most definitely naive.

78,000 euros is a lot of money.

Proof of widespread false accusations from the victims, please.

griswald

[amaralsright]

Proof of widespread false accusations from the victims, please.

griswald

"Proof" was an interesting concept in this process.

[griswald]

"Proof" was an interesting concept in this process.

You are still trying to put the victims into a bad light, but that is a typical catholic stance.

I take it you have no proof that the victims were trying to rip off the state,like these parasites for instance,

http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/archives/001409.html

Solicitor guilty of overcharging child abuse victim
Added on September 8, 2006

By Se?n McC?rthaigh


THE first solicitor to be found guilty of overcharging child abuse victims for cases brought before the Residential Institutions Redress Board (RIRB) has been censured and fined a total of ?5,000.


The Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal has found Kilkenny solicitor, Michael Buggy guilty of misconduct for overcharging a client in relation to a compensation award paid out by the RIRB.

Mr Buggy, who operates a practice at Parliament Street in Kilkenny city was censured and ordered to pay ?5,000 to a compensation fund as well as the costs of the hearing.



Legal sources said such costs were often ?substantial and could be equal to or more than the actual fine.?

Mr Buggy is the first of 12 solicitors whose cases are due to come before the tribunal ? an independent body appointed by the President of the High Court which sits in divisions of three members, two solicitors and a lay person.

They have been the subject of complaints from 22 individuals who made allegations of overcharging in relation to dealings with the RIRB. The solicitors have also been instructed to repay fees plus interest to their clients.

More than 160 complaints were made by former residents of orphanages and industrial schools to the Law Society after the issue of overcharging was first highlighted last October.

The tribunal found Mr Buggy had failed to provide his client with any documentary evidence of work done in relation to the RIRB.

It also ruled the solicitor negotiated his client?s costs with the RIRB without discussing the amount offered by the board with his client.

Mr Buggy also breached the Solicitors (Amendment) Act 1994 by deducting fees from his client?s compensation award without written authority.

The tribunal also made findings against a number of other solicitors in cases unrelated to claims of overcharging by child abuse victims.

They include:

* Colm Murphy with practices at Market St, Kenmare, Co Kerry and Chapel St, Killarney, Co Kerry was censured and ordered to pay a total of ?6,000 in compensation.

* John P Whelan of Matthew MacNamara & Sons, Friar St, Cashel, Co Tipperary was censured and fined ?15,000 for cashing ?184,600 in solicitor-client fee cheques instead of paying the money into a client account.

* Keith Finnan, of Humbert Mall, Main St, Westport, Co Mayo was censured and fined ?1,500 for failing to furnish an accountant?s report.

* Paul Dermot Scully, of Inns Court, Winetavern St, Dublin was censured and fined ?30,000 for failing to progress three claims for personal injuries.

* All parties were also ordered to pay the costs of the hearings.

As the evidence clearly shows, and getting back to the thread topic, Irish Churches covered up abuse, and will continue to do so if they are let.

griswald

[amaralsright]

You are still trying to put the victims into a bad light, but that is a typical catholic stance.

I take it you have no proof that the victims were trying to rip off the state,like these parasites for instance,

The process didn't involve any real examination of evidence.

The worse the abuse story was the more compensation was made.

This is a compromised process.

Anyone can see that.

[azaziel01]

You are told in Maynooth Pontifical Seminary that

"The abusers are still holy men, and it is your duty as seminarians to visit these men"

When I replied that I would visit them with a baseball bat, I was chucked out of the class - and by the way it was a nun who told us all that.

Look up the name Micheal Ledwith, he was president of the seminary and abused young boys for years and got away with it.

Chris

[griswald]

The process didn't involve any real examination of evidence.

The worse the abuse story was the more compensation was made.

This is a compromised process.

Anyone can see that.

Anyone can see that you are more defensive of the churches role in denying abuse, than you are about the victims right to fair justice.

The thread is about the cover up, and this is being well proved. If you have proof of false claims, I suggest you notify the appropriate authorities about it.


You are doing exactly what you accuse the victims of. Claiming something , and failing to prove it.

griswald

[amaralsright]

Anyone can see that you are more defensive of the churches role in denying abuse, than you are about the victims right to fair justice.

Once again, I'm not denying abuse.

I'm criticising a process where you get lots of money for convincing a Board you were abused without any evidence.

It's a compromised process.

A lot of it would never have stood up in a court of law.

[brainfreeze]

Once again, I'm not denying abuse.

I'm criticising a process where you get lots of money for convincing a Board you were abused without any evidence.

It's a compromised process.

A lot of it would never have stood up in a court of law.

Some peeps live with the injustice of abuse because the perp knows that without proof it didn't happen. No one will believe them. Thing is, most kids only go to the authorities once they no longer fear their abuser, and usually by that time the evidence is long ago washed away.

And that is exactly what these child molesters rely on.

And another thing, when the man/woman makes claims of sexual abuse, why is it that his/her responses to the abuse are judge as if it were the grown up that was raped and responding and not the child the grown up was at the time?

[1964]

Why didn't he reach down and flick the heads off the evil bastards.

Much better than shining a light.

God could stop them couldn't he?

What's the point of being all knowing and all powerful and then sitting there watching your representative on earth abusing innocent children?

But that's the thing, the Roman Catholic church isn't God's representative - she's an imposter. And not one of her crimes has escaped God's attention.

Revelation 18:4-5

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

Revelation 18:7-9
Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.' Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

[amaralsright]

But that's the thing, the Roman Catholic church isn't God's representative - she's an imposter. And not one of her crimes has escaped God's attention.

Oh... so he's made a note of it all?

Whilst sitting there watching it happen?

[griswald]

Once again, I'm not denying abuse.

I'm criticising a process where you get lots of money for convincing a Board you were abused without any evidence.

It's a compromised process.

A lot of it would never have stood up in a court of law.

Once again, do you have any evidence to substantiate the claim that this has happened on a wide scale.

Are you suggesting that because this may or may not be the case, that we should not compensate the victims. As the religious orders were given a sweetheart deal, so that the tax payer paid the burden of the compensation, thats you and me Personally i would be quite happy to pay some spurious claims, if in doing so, all of the genuine claims were met.

We have already given an immediate bailout to the banks, without question. I think we owe it to the victims to give some form of compensation, with out question to.

griswald

[amaralsright]

Once again, do you have any evidence to substantiate the claim that this has happened on a wide scale.

Are you suggesting that because this may or may not be the case, that we should not compensate the victims. As the religious orders were given a sweetheart deal, so that the tax payer paid the burden of the compensation, thats you and me Personally i would be quite happy to pay some spurious claims, if in doing so, all of the genuine claims were met.

We have already given an immediate bailout to the banks, without question. I think we owe it to the victims to give some form of compensation, with out question to.

griswald

I'm amazed you agree with a process where people are found guilty based on no proof and the accuser gets paid.

This used to happen in 17th Britain, we hanged a lot of people that way, I thought we had moved on from that.

[tracker]

Where was God?

their god was right there .
it was "their God" that caurses their minds to be so warped .

what else could it have been ?


7000 years of history seems to show the same old theme .
death to men and child slaughter .

so yes , their god was right there .
:cool:

[griswald]

I'm amazed you agree with a process where people are found guilty based on no proof and the accuser gets paid.

This used to happen in 17th Britain, we hanged a lot of people that way, I thought we had moved on from that.

Theres a lot of things that have happened for centuries that have remained unchanged. The abuse of human beings in the name of religion, catholicism in particular, being one of them.

griswald

[nicolaj]

These beast priests worship their leader.

Ladies and Gentlemen,here he is the Anti Christ himself...

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/12/25/pope_benedict_narrowweb__300x390,0.jpg

The synagogue of Satan.

The power behind every government and secret soicety.

soon to begin the 4th reich

[1964]

Oh... so he's made a note of it all?

Whilst sitting there watching it happen?

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying that since God is all-powerful and all-knowing that we're not responsible for the crimes we commit, but God is?

[amaralsright]

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying that since God is all-powerful and all-knowing that we're not responsible for the crimes we commit, but God is?

Did God directly drown the whole world once?
Did he directly punish the Egyptians?

Because they did wrong?

It's not like he would be breaking any of his own rules by directly stopping these children being abused.

[talulah]

sex crimes and the vatican 1-6 - YouTube

[brainfreeze]

Once again, do you have any evidence to substantiate the claim that this has happened on a wide scale.

Are you suggesting that because this may or may not be the case, that we should not compensate the victims. As the religious orders were given a sweetheart deal, so that the tax payer paid the burden of the compensation, thats you and me Personally i would be quite happy to pay some spurious claims, if in doing so, all of the genuine claims were met.

We have already given an immediate bailout to the banks, without question. I think we owe it to the victims to give some form of compensation, with out question to.

griswald

The evidence to sustain the claim would be in the victims life track record. A profiler could/would easily recognise the systematic self distructive give away signs abuse victims suffer throughout their lives. So, checking into the victims/claiments background/s would be a good start in finding evidence to sustains such claims.

Unfrotunately, you may be right, there may be some peeps who make false claims, usually background checks and character references give clues to this. Nothing in life is air-tight. No one, other than the people involved can be 100% certain as to who's fooling whom. It will be interesting to see what more unfolds.

It's not easy keeping the emotional lid shut after such abuse without the guts of it spilling out somewhere along the course of the victims life/lives, surely?

[amaralsright]

In February 2003, the then Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell said he was proud that, "the State Redress Scheme won't need strict proof, adversarial justice or courtroom procedures."

That is a one f*cked up scheme.

The accused are not allowed to defend themselves.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/08/30/story71087.asp

[griswald]

In February 2003, the then Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell said he was proud that, "the State Redress Scheme won't need strict proof, adversarial justice or courtroom procedures."

That is a one f*cked up scheme.

The accused are not allowed to defend themselves.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/08/30/story71087.asp



2003 was a very interesting year. Thats the same year that Cardinal O Connell, had an interesting interview with Joe Little of RTE, trying to explain how funds were made available to Fr Ivan Payne.

The catholic church perpetuate cover up after cover up, what it needs is a root and branch clean out. Any other body or institution that inflicted the amount of pain and suffering that they have would be disbanded.

Griswald



http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2009/11/lies-that-connell-claims-he-never-told.html


Joe Little of RTE asked Connell whether he had compensated victims of clerical abuse. Connell replied: ‘‘I have compensated nobody. I have paid nobody."

He went on to say that the finances of the diocese were ‘‘not used in any way’’ (to make settlements in civil actions concerning clerical child abuse).

In 2003, almost a decade later, Desmond Connell had a meeting with Madden, who, of course, was fully aware that what Connell had said to Little was a lie.

The investigation commission report says: ‘‘In the course of an informal chat, Cardinal Connell did apologise for the whole handling of the Fr Ivan Payne case. He was, however, at pains to point out to Mr Madden that he did not lie about the use of diocesan funds in meeting Fr Payne’s settlement with Mr Madden.

‘‘He explained that, when he was asked by journalists about the use of diocesan funds for the compensation of complainants of child sexual abuse, he had responded that diocesan funds are not used for such a purpose; that he had not said that diocesan funds were not used for such a purpose. By using the present tense, he had not excluded the possibility that diocesan funds had been used for such purpose in the past. According to Mr Madden, Cardinal Connell considered that there was an enormous difference between the two."

[amaralsright]

It doesn't matter what you say griswald, the accused were not allowed to defend themselves.

That is totally screwed.

We seem to have stepped back two centuries.

[griswald]

It doesn't matter what you say griswald, the accused were not allowed to defend themselves.

That is totally screwed.

We seem to have stepped back two centuries.

The victims had no one to defend them selves either. Looks like the abusers are getting some divine retribution.

Are you saying that there are innocent people accused of heinous crimes against children, imprisoned.

griswald

[1964]

Did God directly drown the whole world once?
Did he directly punish the Egyptians?

Because they did wrong?

It's not like he would be breaking any of his own rules by directly stopping these children being abused.

Let me see if I've got this right. I'm going to assume you wouldn't want God to take away your will to do as you choose. And if that's true, then what you would like is for people to be able to do as they choose, but for God to erase any ill consequences resulting from wrongful actions and wrongful behaviour.

Because that does seem to be what you're saying. Christ has warned people against this spiritual whore who calls herself the Roman Catholic church - to the point that He has commanded His people to "come out!" from among her and completely divorce themselves. But what you're saying is that people should be allowed to both ignore God's warnings, and still have to suffer no consequences for worshipping an imposter - and then teaching their own children to worship an imposter!

Let's suppose God hadn't warned people at all. We're still talking about a church that's known for having murdered millions of innocent people; a church that is known for its abuse against children; and for its leader, who lives in a literal palace while some of his own people go hungry. If the Roman Catholic church were a day-care center, what sane parent would leave their child in its care?!

Except that on top of all this, God Himself HAS taken the time to warn people against this whore. And what you're saying is that in spite of it all, when people ignore all the warnings, it's God Who should intervene and erase all consequences.

Have I got that right? Is this how you feel?

[talulah]

Let me see if I've got this right. I'm going to assume you wouldn't want God to take away your will to do as you choose. And if that's true, then what you would like is for people to be able to do as they choose, but for God to erase any ill consequences resulting from wrongful actions and wrongful behaviour.

Because that does seem to be what you're saying. Christ has warned people against this spiritual whore who calls herself the Roman Catholic church - to the point that He has commanded His people to "come out!" from among her and completely divorce themselves. But what you're saying is that people should be allowed to both ignore God's warnings, and still have to suffer no consequences for worshipping an imposter - and then teaching their own children to worship an imposter!

Let's suppose God hadn't warned people at all. We're still talking about a church that's known for having murdered millions of innocent people; a church that is known for its abuse against children; and for its leader, who lives in a literal palace while some of his own people go hungry. If the Roman Catholic church were a day-care center, what sane parent would leave their child in its care?!

Except that on top of all this, God Himself HAS taken the time to warn people against this whore. And what you're saying is that in spite of it all, when people ignore all the warnings, it's God Who should intervene and erase all consequences.

Have I got that right? Is this how you feel?

Thats one exellent post.

Also if priests are wrongly accussed then thats not good but its no great shakes,they dont go to jail anyway.The catholic churches answer to it is to move them to another part of the world where they also work with children.

I standby what i said at the beggining of this thread in fact its not the pope thats the anti christ alone its the whole catholic religion.Vatican being at the helm.
I Feel sorry for the poor souls who have stupidly followed this religion for centuries,it does not make them evil.

As ive said on here before the vatican has its own department now to deal with its abusers.

That says it all.

T.

[amaralsright]

The victims had no one to defend them selves either. Looks like the abusers are getting some divine retribution.

Are you saying that there are innocent people accused of heinous crimes against children, imprisoned.

griswald

No, I'm happy with the cases that went to court. That was the proper channel for the abuse claims.

The Redress Board is a completely different matter as I'm sure you are well aware.

The accused were not allowed to defend themselves. Little in the way of proof had to be submitted.

It sucked.

[amaralsright]

double post