The Holocaust

[stevepenny]

General Eisenhower Warned Us, and this IS a matter of history, that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead.

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet.. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.

It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This thread is in memory of the,6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians, and 1,900 Catholic priests who were 'murdered, raped, burned, starved, beat, experimented on and humiliated' while the German people looked the other way!

Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Centre 'NEVER HAPPENED', because it offends some Muslim in the U.S. ???

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE...SOMEONE HAD TO PAY FOR IT
If you can read this...thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English.....thank a veteran.

[trix]

First the Three Little Pigs, now this? :rolleyes:

Who are these muslims saying these preposterous and offensive things? They're offending me, so can we stop listening to their bull? Honestly, who are these people that are complaining? I find it hard to believe muslims are saying we must take info on the holocaust out of school books.

Just a ploy to get people against muslims, in my opinion. I know two devout muslims and they are some of the nicest, funniest people I know. They have a philosophy of live and let live. They don't drink or smoke or do a lot of things but that never stopped them from enjoying times like that with their friends. They are devout in their beliefs but arent judgmental.

I think this is part of a bigger picture, to get us against each other. "Those damn muslims! How dare they!!"

[rodin]

General Eisenhower Warned Us, and this IS a matter of history, that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead.

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet.. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.

It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This thread is in memory of the,6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians, and 1,900 Catholic priests who were 'murdered, raped, burned, starved, beat, experimented on and humiliated' while the German people looked the other way!

Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Centre 'NEVER HAPPENED', because it offends some Muslim in the U.S. ???

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE...SOMEONE HAD TO PAY FOR IT
If you can read this...thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English.....thank a veteran.

So you say the Holocaust is real and 911 was done by Muslims?

[spongeblip]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Some people are worse than MSM...

[velma]

Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

Forget?

Fat chance!

The Holocaust is the only subject taught in history and my young son is currently studying "the boy in the stripped pyjamas" for Humanities! :confused:

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Very Cordial Salutations stevepenny.

Thank you for your excellent Post, I agree 100%

You are witnessing a Sociological Phenomanon here:

Adult Adolescents rewritting History.

http://www.realtruth.org/wtc_999_081002.html?s_kwcid=TC|7308|real%20truth|| S||3513902207&gclid=CJbY46SkkJ4CFaM45QodaQpkpA

I found this interesting: After the Flood Yahweh produced a Rainbow, as a 'Sign' between Him and Humanity, I find it extraordinarily interesting that it was The Rainbow Division that was at the forefront of liberating the camps.

The surviving Jews referred to them as: The Rainbow Men

A 'Sign' from Yahweh.

Headline: Savage Horror Of Dachau Will Never Be Forgotten

“DACHAU, Germany, May 1, 1945 (AP)—Every soldier, officer and war correspondent attached to the 42d (Rainbow) Division of the U.S. Seventh Army today had one word seared into his soul—‘Dachau.’

“It represents the last word in savagery, depravity, sadism and inhumanity. Here human beings were experimented on as though they were guinea pigs, were eliminated by slow starvation and their bodies burned wholesale in a gigantic crematory” (The Free Lance-Star).

On Sept. 2, 2009, my wife and I visited the memorial site of the Dachau Concentration Camp. It was one of the most sobering experiences of my life. The phrase quoted in one of the following news articles may have said it all: “a super-hell of horrors.”
Headline: Organized Nazi Brutality Found in Camps by Editors
May 6, 1945: “PARIS—(AP)—A commission of American newspaper editors reported yesterday it had reached the ‘inescapable’ conclusion after personal investigation that German political prison camps [including Dachau] were operated on a ‘master plan of calculated and organized brutality.’

“The 18 editors signing the report declared they had ‘convincing proof’ that ‘sadistic tortures too horrible and too perverted to be publicly described’ were embraced in the Nazi ‘system’ of operating these camps, and that ‘murder was a commonplace’ in the camps” (St. Petersburg Times).

The suffering that people experienced at Dachau, and so many camps like it, is nearly forgotten in the fast-paced, “live in the moment” 21st century, when people no longer make time to simply stop and think. Billions today were not alive to read the headlines and stories of 1945. So many have learned little about the millions exterminated during World War II—and those who do are often limited to a short, general segment on the Holocaust covered in a high school history class.

Headline: Foreign News: Dachau

May 7, 1945: “When all other German prison camps are forgotten the name of Dachau will still be infamous. It was the first concentration camp set up for Hitler, and its mere name was a whispered word of terror through all Germany from the earliest days of Nazi control.”

“Beside the highway into Dachau there runs a spur line off the Munich railroad. Here a soldier stopped us and said: ‘I think you better take a look at these box-cars.’ The cars were filled with dead men. Most of them were naked. On their bony, emaciated backs and rumps were whip marks. Most of the cars were open-top cars like American coal cars…

“Skeleton Stacks. We went on, and the great size of the establishment of Dachau began to open before us. Buildings and barracks spread on and on. Outside one building, half covered by a brown tarpaulin, was a stack about five feet high and about 20 feet wide of naked dead bodies, all of them emaciated.”

Expand ImageA look of horror: A starving inmate of a Nazi concentration camp (May 12, 1945).
Source: National Archive“Each of these pitiful, happy, starved, hysterical men wanted to tell us his home country, his home city, and ask us news and beg for cigarets [sic]. The eyes of these men defy my powers of description. They are the eyes of men who have lived in a super-hell of horrors for many years, and are now driven half-crazy by the liberation they have prayed so hopelessly for” (Time).

A concentration camp such as Dachau represents the worst of humanity. Such sickening and repulsive savagery inflicted on one human being by another should never be forgotten. My personal journey into examining the past resulted in seeing undeniable evidence, which is seared into my memory, vividly and permanently. Permit this article, through words and photos, to do the same with you.Historian George Santayana famously wrote, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” What has mankind learned?

From Time Magazine:

"This War was a Revolution against the Moral Basis of Civilisation. It was conceived by the NAZIs in conscious Contempt for the Life, Dignity and Freedom of individual Man and deliberately prosecuted by means of Slavery, Starvation and Mass Destruction of Non-Combatants lives.

It was a Revolution against the Human Soul."

Thank You, Stevepenny, I Salute You!

:)

Kindest Regards.

snoops

[haukipesukone]

This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet.. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.
.

That's a dumb excuse for stopping to feed people the holohoax, but no matter. As long as they stop teaching people the lie.

[kappy0405]

Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

But 'Iran' never denied the Holocaust.. and neither did Ahmedinejad.

[astrochicken]

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'


Post the exact quote please and source.


This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet.. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.


Good on them and while they're on the subject..how many fucking films do we need each year about the holocaust?.. i know you're guaranteed an oscar..but enough is enough.



FREEDOM ISN'T FREE...SOMEONE HAD TO PAY FOR IT
If you can read this...thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English.....thank a veteran.
[/quote]

Das hättest du auch auf Deutsch schreiben können, hätte ich auch verstanden.


Moron.

[rodin]

So many of these its a bad joke

http://judicial-inc.biz/wolfboy_of_Auschwitz.htm

http://judicial-inc.biz/83Holocaust_survivors.htm

...someone shd do a compilation.

a real US General

http://judicial-inc.biz/patton_murder.htm

[haukipesukone]

Das hättest du auch auf Deutsch schreiben können, hätte ich auch verstanden.


Moron.

日本語もいいよ。
Suomekskin kelpaa.

[stevepenny]

So you say the Holocaust is real and 911 was done by Muslims?

What do you say

[kappy0405]

What do you say

you're not asking me, but.. the holocaust is real, but highly exaggerated, and 911 was done my manipulated wanna-be Muslims hired by (and with the help of) the CIA/Mossad/MI and their corporate masters.. :cool:

[stevepenny]

Post the exact quote please and source.

Why; are the words not enough for you?

Good on them and while they're on the subject..how many fucking films do we need each year about the holocaust?.. i know you're guaranteed an oscar..but enough is enough.

Who's talking about films?

Das hättest du auch auf Deutsch schreiben können, hätte ich auch verstanden.

You seem to have understood it well enough.

Moron.

Well that was an adult response...

[astrochicken]

Steve, well please do elaborate as to the point behind your post?

Seems to be yet another "Germans are evil, the allies are the good guys, and the jews are the victims"...

Do i think germans were evil? nope.
Do i think the allies were the good guys? nope.
Do i think the holocaust happened as promoted (shamelessly) ? nope.

Am i glad that i also speak german, french and dutch and am not
limited to the language of the apparent *victors*.. fucking right i am.
It opens up many a perspective that you just don't percieve.


Read up on Patton.. there's someone that was murdered for speaking out.

[tenzingnorgay]

General Eisenhower Warned Us, and this IS a matter of history, that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead.

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet.. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.

It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This thread is in memory of the,6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians, and 1,900 Catholic priests who were 'murdered, raped, burned, starved, beat, experimented on and humiliated' while the German people looked the other way!

Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Centre 'NEVER HAPPENED', because it offends some Muslim in the U.S. ???



The holocaust was/is a myth.

Please don't post fiction. This bogus account of Eisenhower has been circulating on the internet for at least the last two years. Sometimes it is posted along with a piece about holocaust education (ie indoctrination) as you did and that has been specfically discredited by Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/holocaust.asp

This incident was supposed to have occurred in Dachau. Eisenhower never set foot in Dachau and never gave that warning. Here's the communication he actually issued when US forces arrived at Dachau:

"General Eisenhower sent a laconic communique from headquarters: `Our forces liberated and mopped up the infamous concentration camp at Dachau. Approximately 32,000 prisoners were liberated; 300 SS camp guards were quickly neutralized.' "

The prisoners that the allies found in the camps were starving to death because for the last year of the war the Germans didn't have much food or much time to take care of them. No one was surprised at the shape of the prisoners nor did anyone think it had anything to do with mass murder. When the Red Cross visited German prison of war camps earlier during the war, the prisoners were well cared for.

On the other hand, what the allies did to the Germans they captured was worse than what the Germans did to their prisoners. The Americans killed almost two million Germans in the prison camps after the wars and the Russians killed about 7 million more Germans after the war, most of these were civilians.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/easterngermany/Gotha/index.html

http://www.amazon.com/Crimes-Mercies-Civilians-Occupation-1944-1950/dp/0889225672/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1250208752&sr=8-2

http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm

As for how many Jews were killed by the Germans, most Jews don't want people to discuss the topic. Wouldn't the Jews want to discuss it extensively so people would remember? They don't want it discussed because the commonly cited 6 million figure is clearly wrong. Some historians these days speculate that perhaps 2,000,000, were killed, but they're just guessing. Here's one example of figures that keep getting revised downwards:

http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/1/Faurisson17-23.html

It's actually hard to prove that more than a few hundred thousand Jews may have been killed. The Germans kept meticulous records and none have shown more than a few hundred thousand jews were killed. Almanacs from the late 1930s also show about 8,900,000 Jews living in Europe while almanacs in 1948, after the war was over, showed 9,400,000, an increase of 500,000. Where are the missing 6,000,000?

When Churchill, Eisenhower and deGaulle wrote their books about WWII, none of them mentioned a holocaust, none mentioned millions of dead Jews, none mentioned any gas chambers. Most of those stories developed many years after the war.

"The Missing Holocaust
"I've checked out Churchill's Second World War and the statement
is quite correct” not a single mention of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a
'genocide' of the Jews, or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war.
This is astonishing. How can it be explained?

Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six
volumes of Churchill's Second World War total 4,448 pages; and
de Gaulle's three-volume Memoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this
mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including
the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find
no mention either of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a 'genocide' of the Jews,
or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war."

Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus, University of Ulster, December 5, 2005

[my_lady rachel]

But 'Iran' never denied the Holocaust.. and neither did Ahmedinejad.

Is that a fact now ...
And your sources???

[my_lady rachel]

That's a dumb excuse for stopping to feed people the holohoax, but no matter. As long as they stop teaching people the lie.


In America, political speech has always been among the most protected forms, but even in politics, you aren't allowed to lie about your opponent. Why should you be allowed to lie about the Holocaust? Perhaps it's only because the people you might lie about are already dead.

[my_lady rachel]

you're not asking me, but.. the holocaust is real, but highly exaggerated, and 911 was done my manipulated wanna-be Muslims hired by (and with the help of) the CIA/Mossad/MI and their corporate masters.. :cool:

I don't see any scam. All the evidence points to a Jewish population suffering the poverty of Czarist Russia, WW1 and the subsequent Great Depression and the famines that preceded it.

What I do see is sites pretending to be historical when it is propagandistic. Its links are clearly Holocaust Revisionist / Denial

* Arthur Butz' revisionist site for his book, The Hoax of the Twentieth Century
* Fritz Berg's Nazi Gassings site
* FAEM -- Robert Frenz' First Amendment Exercise Machine. Not for the faint of heart.
* Norman G. Finklestein -- Straight talk on the "Holocaust Industry," Daniel Goldhagen's racist scholarship, and more
* Campaign for Radical Truth in History -- Michael Hoffman's hard hitting site
* Fraudwatcher Network -- Nazi War Crimes
* Institute for Historical Review -- Decades of published studies of virtually all aspects of the Holocaust
* Noontide Press -- Great source for revisionist and other hard-to-find books
* ReportersNotebook.com -- Valuable news and comment, continually updated, with a bulletin board
* Revisionism 101 -- Succinct debunking of some common Holocaust claims
* Alt.revisionism -- A USENET forum for discussing Holocaust revisionism, although the anti-revisionists have largely turned it into a cesspit. Enter at your own risk
* The Revisionist Forum -- Discuss Holocaust revisionism with others on-line
* Revisionists.com -- Biographical information about prominent Holocaust skeptics
* The SPOTLIGHT -- One of the first news sources to publicize the revisionist position
* Zionist Book Club -- The leading Jewish conspiracy on-line store about the history of Judaism, anti-Semitism, and politics
* Zündelsite -- Ingrid Rimland's detailed, continually updated site, with information about political prisoner Ernst Zundel


And we all know about the birth of Holocaust Revisionism............

http://i38.tinypic.com/2ecirtk.jpg


"6,858,000 (88.5 percent) lived in Europe, " There that 6 million figure again! So much for evidence of scamming. Some just don't know how to appreciate math!

Psychiatric medicine calls conspiracy theorists "Patients suffering delusional Paranoia". Fruitcakes baked with alot of NUTS.

Mossad is also responsible for my slow internet connection...

Everything can make sense if you add enough lies and half truths coupled with a good spin. If you believed all the theories, then Mossad is responsible for 80% of the worlds disasters.

The Official Version of 9/11 goes something like this...

Directed by a beardy-guy from a cave in Afghanistan, nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah...

Using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew, passengers and pilots on four planes...

And hangover or not, they manage to give the world's most sophisticated air defense system the slip...

Unphased by leaving their “How to Fly a Passenger Jet” guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls in no-time and score direct hits on two towers, causing THREE to collapse completely...

Our masterminds even manage to overpower the odd law of physics or two... and the world watches in awe as steel-framed buildings fall symmetrically - through their own mass - at free-fall speed, for the first time in history.

Despite all their dastardly cunning, they stupidly give their identity away by using explosion-proof passports, which survive the fireball undamaged and fall to the ground... only to be discovered by the incredible crime-fighting sleuths at the FBI...

…Meanwhile down in Washington...

Hani Hanjour, having previously flunked 2-man Cessna flying school, gets carried away with all the success of the day and suddenly finds incredible abilities behind the controls of a Boeing...

Instead of flying straight down into the large roof area of the Pentagon, he decides to show off a little...

Executing an incredible 270 degree downward spiral, he levels off to hit the low facade of the world's most heavily defended building...

...all without a single shot being fired.... or ruining the nicely mowed lawn... and all at a speed just too fast to capture on video...

...Later, in the skies above Pennsylvania...

So desperate to talk to loved ones before their death, some passengers use sheer willpower to connect mobile calls that otherwise would not be possible until several years later...

And following a heroic attempt by some to retake control of Flight 93, it crashes into a Shankesville field leaving no trace of engines, fuselage or occupants... except for the standard issue Muslim terrorists bandana...

...Further south in Florida...

President Bush, our brave Commander-in-Chief continues to read “My Pet Goat” to a class full of primary school children... shrugging off the obvious possibility that his life could be in imminent danger...

...In New York...

World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein blesses his own foresight in insuring the buildings against terrorist attack only six weeks previously...

While back in Washington, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz shake their heads in disbelief at their own luck in getting the 'New Pearl Harbor' catalyzing event they so desired to pursue their agenda of world domination...

And finally, not to be disturbed too much by reports of their own deaths, at least seven of our nineteen suicide hijackers turn up alive and kicking in mainstream media reports...

[my_lady rachel]

That's a dumb excuse for stopping to feed people the holohoax, but no matter. As long as they stop teaching people the lie.


There is a lot of good stuff there that will try to exercise your two functioning brain cells.

No need to thank me ..............
Thats what I do .........................
Educate snotty nosed juveniles.............
Who don't know their arse from their elbow.........

[my_lady rachel]

So many of these its a bad joke

http://judicial-inc.biz/wolfboy_of_Auschwitz.htm



...someone shd do a compilation.

a real US General

http://judicial-inc.biz/patton_murder.htm


strange doings at judicial-inc.biz‏



"The problem is, Skunkie [= JUDICIAL-INC.BIZ] is either off his rocker, or he is a "joooo plant" himself. Everything is a goddamn "joooo conspiracy" to him. He accuses everyone, or very nearly everyone, of being a "jooo" or a "jooo poodle" or something. David Irving, Stormfront, Don Black, VNN, Alex Linder, Overthrow.com, Bill White, the National Socialist Movement, IHR, WCOTC, William Pierce, National Alliance, National Vanguard, you name it: all "jooos" or "jooo plants" or "jooo poodles".

"… I don't trust him and I don't think any rational person should, no matter how slick he is. An Israel Shahak or Norman Finkelstein is a much more positive contributor to the cause of the truth than Skunkie will ever be.

MORE HERE ...
http://www.cwporter.com/judicialinc.htm

[runciter]

In America, political speech has always been among the most protected forms, but even in politics, you aren't allowed to lie about your opponent. Why should you be allowed to lie about the Holocaust? Perhaps it's only because the people you might lie about are already dead.

i think zionist con men should be allowed to lie about the holocaust, why not?

they aren't special, i don't think special laws are needed, or censorship of any kind.

[runciter]

And we all know about the birth of Holocaust Revisionism............


i don't know about its birth, but i see you're a trustable source so i'll assume you're correct.

lack of bias or prejudice is a necessary requirement in this field, and your avatar is a guarantee.

how would its birth affect present discussions? or maybe it can even affect what happened before?

edit:

location "israel usa" means double citizenship, or is it about israeli colonization of the americas?

[my_lady rachel]

i think zionist con men should be allowed to lie about the holocaust, why not?

they aren't special, i don't think special laws are needed, or censorship of any kind.

Who are these "Zionist con men" you speak of my dear???

It takes a weak mind to equate lack of discussion with "denial".

Important Notice ~ Holocaust Revisionism is illegal‏

Important Notice:
No more book sales to Germany and France!
PayPal transactions and the laws against Holocaust Revisionism

Theses and Dissertations will not be able to process ANY PayPal TRANSACTIONS AT ALL, nor will we process any orders from the following nations, where Holocaust Revisionism is illegal:

Austria (article 3h Verbotsgesetz 1947), Belgium (Belgian Negationism Law), the Czech Republic under section 261, France (Loi Gayssot), Germany (§ 130 (3) of the penal code) also the Auschwitzlüge law section 185, Lithuania, The Netherlands under articles 137c and 137e, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain and Switzerland (article 261bis of the Penal Code).

In addition, under Law 5710-1950 it is also illegal in Israel.

August 27, 2006

Michael Santomauro
Editorial Director

[runciter]

Who are these "Zionist con men" you speak of my dear???

"organized jewry" as a whole, it works much like a criminal organization.

[zarah]

Who are these "Zionist con men" you speak of my dear???

It takes a weak mind to equate lack of discussion with "denial".

Important Notice ~ Holocaust Revisionism is illegal‏

Important Notice:
No more book sales to Germany and France!
PayPal transactions and the laws against Holocaust Revisionism

Theses and Dissertations will not be able to process ANY PayPal TRANSACTIONS AT ALL, nor will we process any orders from the following nations, where Holocaust Revisionism is illegal:

Austria (article 3h Verbotsgesetz 1947), Belgium (Belgian Negationism Law), the Czech Republic under section 261, France (Loi Gayssot), Germany (§ 130 (3) of the penal code) also the Auschwitzlüge law section 185, Lithuania, The Netherlands under articles 137c and 137e, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain and Switzerland (article 261bis of the Penal Code).

In addition, under Law 5710-1950 it is also illegal in Israel.

August 27, 2006

Michael Santomauro
Editorial Director


Why should discourse be illegal? Do you even bother to ask yourself that question? Why is it not illegal to discuss the events of the Armenian genocide in which 10 million people were killed? Why only the second world war and why only how many Jews were killed, or what happened or didn't happen in prison camps, especially as so many fundamental questions remain unanswered. The fact that it IS illegal in certain places in the world ensures that questioning is even more important, surely? I'm an intelligent, inquisitive person, who are you to tell me what I can and cannot research? What it a statute to instruct me that I am not permitted to debate any event in history I choose to?

Does the ECHR not allow me the fundamental right of freedom of conscience and expression? Doesn't the English common law allow me the same?

According to Norman Finklestein, whose parents were in prison camps and so has a right to have his views heard, the 'holocaust' has become a money making industry, which exist only if its narrative stands unchallenged and unaltered.

[tenzingnorgay]

Why should discourse be illegal?
snip

To insure that the truth is hidden. There is no other reason.

[icarus]

To insure that the truth is hidden. There is no other reason.

spot on

red cross said 300000 deaths mainly due to disease

eisenhower was....ahem.....baised

Patton woke up and then went to sleep suddenly

and as to German citizens being forced to witness their horror, it's now accepted there were no death camps in Germany, only in Poland, conveniently under "Russian" control

the biggest and most disgusting hoax in human history used by crimnals to justify unspeakable horror ever since

not least disgusting to use the real deaths of the real 300000 jews in this cynical manner, but then Zionists are a breed apart

[rodin]

spot on

red cross said 300000 deaths mainly due to disease

eisenhower was....ahem.....baised

Patton woke up and then went to sleep suddenly

and as to German citizens being forced to witness their horror, it's now accepted there were no death camps in Germany, only in Poland, conveniently under "Russian" control

the biggest and most disgusting hoax in human history used by crimnals to justify unspeakable horror ever since

not least disgusting to use the real deaths of the real 300000 jews in this cynical manner, but then Zionists are a breed apart

A perfect summary. Also Red Cross were not allowed into the Soviet camps. I wonder why

[my_lady rachel]

i think zionist con men should be allowed to lie about the holocaust, why not?

they aren't special, i don't think special laws are needed, or censorship of any kind.


Just cause someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're lying.

6 Reasons Why We Lie

We all lie, but why do we lie? Sure, lying is both useful and sometimes even fun, yet there are fundamental reasons why we lie.

These main reasons are:

Fear of harm: The easiest reason to understand why we lie is for self protection, including self deception, to prevent harm to ourselves. This harm can be either physical or mental.

Fear of conflict: To some degree, we all fear having an argument.

Fear of punishment: When growing up, how often did we lie about how well we did in school, or who started a fight? How often do we cover up our mistakes and transgressions?

Fear of rejection: Sometimes, our insecurities are the foundation of why we lie to each other, because we want to be remain popular in our relationships. Typically, it is harmless boasting to make ourselves appear more admirable to other people.

Fear of loss: This is usually the loss of personal objects, such as money or expensive valuables. Greed is the foundation for this reason and can be found in each of us. We often lie to make ourselves more desirable to other people too. Most common, people lie for fear of losing an opportunity to have sex. Other times, when our self esteem starts to decline, we even lie to ourselves as means to prevent loss of morale.

Altruistic Reasons: We often lie to help our friends and loved ones. How often do we flattery someone just to make them feel better? This is the only selfless reason why we lie.

Despite all the technical reasons why people lie, it all boils down to this:


The fundamental reason why people lie is because it mostly works.


And because lying has become more understood in today’s society, lying has become more acceptable. It has sometimes even become an admirable and useful social skill.

That is the Truth about Lies.

[my_lady rachel]

"organized jewry" as a whole, it works much like a criminal organization.

The list of names of Christians is too long ...easier just to name the Jews.

Does crime pay? Actually it does, sometimes with jail time or other punishments.

Honest hard working Americans don't support crime and criminals.

Criminals support themselves thro' a variety of different means like money laundrying, illegal drug running, prostitution, etc. Anything which is not done within the laws of a state or country is considered criminal.

Yes!!! We have had many a gangsters in this nation. When caught by the authorities, have met with some horrible fate. Either sent to prison or gunned down by the authorities. Some of the gangsters as much as turned on each other and gunned each other down.



A Large compilation of Christian Crimes since its advent, with dates:

As soon as Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire by imperial edict (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.

Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.

Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.

Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]

Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]

Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."

In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.

In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]

The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
[DO19-25]

Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]

Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]

15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Number of victims unknown. [DO30]

16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".

Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]

First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]

Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]

9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then Turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]

Until January 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]

After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then Turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women and children) killed. [WW32-35]

Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]

Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]

Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (Jewish, Muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude."

The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]

Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]

Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]

Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]

Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224]

Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]

Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]

Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]

The Albigensians (Cathars) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]

Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (the greatest single mass murderer prior to the Nazi era) in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Number of victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic
neighbors and friends) estimated between 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]

Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]

Subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]

After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324.[WW183]

Estimated one million victims (Cathar heresy alone), [WW183]

Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).

Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada, a former Dominican friar, allegedly was responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]

John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]

Michael Sattler, leader of a baptist community, was burned at the stake in Rottenburg, Germany, May 20, 1527. Several days later his wife and other follwers were also executed. [KM]

University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]


Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.

Thomas Aikenhead, a twenty-year-old scottish student of Edinburgh University, was hanged for atheism and blasphemy.

From the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.

In the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.
[WV]

15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]

1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]

1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. [DO31]
Between 5000 and 6000 Protestants were drowned by Spanish Catholic Troops, "a disaster the burghers of Emden first realized when several thousand broad-brimmed Dutch hats floated by." [SH216]

1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]

17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]

17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]

17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]

Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Christians.Number of Jews slain unknown.

In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. [DA450]

694 17. Council of Toledo: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]

1010 The Bishop of Limoges (France) had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]

1096 First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]

1147 Second Crusade: Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]

1189/90 Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked. [DO40]

1235, Fulda/Germany: 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]

1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]

1290 Bohemia (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]

1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]

1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. [DO41]

1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]

1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]

1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all Jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.

1492 In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492.
[MM470-476]

1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain.
[DO43]

Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as a means to propagate Christianity.

Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no religion." [SH200]

While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it." [SH204-205]

On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:

"I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [SH66]


Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony: "justifieinge the undertakeres of the intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome of the Ante-Christ." [SH235]

In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." [SH109,238]

On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. [SH204]

The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and Spanish raids.

As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous." [SH69]

The Indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [SH70]

What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive." [SH72]
Or, on another occasion:

"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs." [SH83]

The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus "the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [SH72-73]

"In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated." [SH75]

"And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitlán [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]

Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other Spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).

"When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead."
[SH95]

Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians. Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers: "Their Warres are farre less bloudy...", so that there usually was "no great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared women and children. [SH111]

In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the (generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave Jamestown - "being idell ... did runne away unto the Indyans," - to live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).

"Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed: 'Some he apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles, others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [SH105] Of course these elegant measures were restricted for fellow Englishmen: "This was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those who had no choice in the matter, because they were the native people of Virginia" methods were different: "when an Indian was accused by an Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire community" down. [SH105]

On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War." The killers were New England Puritan Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.

When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.

Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after, because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and burned their villages.

The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote: "And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very Flames, where many of them perished ... God was above them, who laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making them as a fiery Oven ... Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling the Place with dead Bodies": men, women, children. [SH113-114]

So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts, and to give us their land for an inheritance". [SH111].

Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow:

"Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them..." (Deut 20)

Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents". [SH114]

Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own words: "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them." (This was inspired by Spanish methods of the time)

In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was near. [SH107-119]

The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]

Other tribes were to follow the same path.

Comment the Christian exterminators: "God's Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!"

"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!" [TA]

Like today, lying was morally acceptable to Christians then. "Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians 'grow secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, & cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]

In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless Indian men, women and children. [SH107]

In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some "600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a 'barbeque'." [SH115]

To summarize: Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of 98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog people had numbered about
30,000, fifty years later they were down to 1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least 44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed. [SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred. And the carnage was not over then.

All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it was before the frontier age actually had begun.

A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.

In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even today.

Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England's most esteemed religious leaders, in "1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to purchase and train large packs of dogs 'to hunt Indians as they do bears'." [SH241]

Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church ("I long to be wading in gore" had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.
From an eye-witness account: "There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed ..." [SH131]

By the 1860s, "in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by 90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased members of the body'."
[SH244]

References:

[DA] K.Deschner, Abermals krähte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962.

[DO] K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987.

[EC] P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985.

[EJ] S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977.

[HA] Hunter, M., Wootton, D., Atheism from the Reformation to the
Enlightenment, Oxford 1992.

[KM] Schröder-Kappus, E., Wagner, W., Michael Sattler. Ein Märtyrer in
Rottenburg, Tübingen, TVT Media 1992.

[LI] H.C.Lea, The Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York 1961.

[MM] M.Margolis, A.Marx, A History of the Jewish People.

[MV] A.Manhattan, The Vatican's Holocaust, Springfield 1986.
See also V.Dedijer, The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Buffalo NY, 1992.

[NC] J.T.Noonan, Contraception: A History of its Treatment by the Catholic
Theologians and Canonists, Cambridge/Mass., 1992.

[S2] Newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany, 10/10/96, 12:00.

[SH] D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992.

[SP] German news magazine Der Spiegel, no.49, 12/2/1996.

[TA] A True Account of the Most Considerable Occurrences that have Hapned in the Warre Between the English and the Indians in New England, London 1676.

[TG] F.Turner, Beyond Geography, New York 1980.

[WW] H.Wollschläger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zürich 1973. (This is in german and what is worse, it is out of print. But it is the best I ever read about crusades and includes a full list of original medieval Christian chroniclers' writings).

[WV] Estimates on the number of executed witches:

N.Cohn, Europe's Inner Demons: An Enquiry Inspired by the Great Witch Hunt, Frogmore 1976, 253.
R.H.Robbins, The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology, New York 1959, 180.
J.B.Russell, Witchcraft in the Middle Ages, Ithaca/NY 1972, 39.
H.Zwetsloot, Friedrich Spee und die Hexenprozesse, Trier 1954, 56.

If ever there were any proof needed that religion fanatics and extremists is the biggest cause of death, pestulence and famine the world has ever seen, there my friends is a snap shot of the atrocities carried out in the NAME of GOD. Undeniable and most certainly true.

[my_lady rachel]

To insure that the truth is hidden. There is no other reason.




Speculating ain't Truth!

[mysticmolly]

But 'Iran' never denied the Holocaust.. and neither did Ahmedinejad.

What a load of bollocks


Iran President: Holocaust A Myth

(AP) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday the Holocaust is a "myth" in another sharp attack on Israel's right to exist that drew immediate harsh criticism from both the Jewish state and from Germany and the European Commission.

Germany's foreign minister blasted the comments as "shocking and unacceptable" and warned that they will influence crucial upcoming nuclear talks between Europe and Iran.

Speaking to thousands of people in the southeastern city of Zahedan, Ahmadinejad said: "Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/14/world/main1124255.shtml

[mysticmolly]

World Famous Prof
Questions The Holocaust

Richard Lynn
Professor Emeritus,
University of Ulster
12-5-5


I've checked out Churchill's Second World War and the statement is quite correct - not a single mention of Nazi "gas chambers," a "genocide" of the Jews, or of "six million" Jewish victims of the war.

This is astonishing. How can it be explained?

Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill's Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle's three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi "gas chambers," a "genocide" of the Jews, or of "six million" Jewish victims of the war.

Richard Lynn
Professor Emeritus,
University of Ulster
http://www.rlynn.co.uk

http://www.rense.com/general69/porof.htm


The 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel -- 1988
.......

Circular Letter No. 31/48 Vienna, 1 Oct. 1948 10th dispatch

1. The Allied Commissions of Inquiry have so far established that no people were killed by poison gas in the following concentration camps: Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Flossenbürg, Gross-Rosen, Mauthausen and its satellite camps, Natzweiler, Neuengamme, Niederhagen (Wewelsburg), Ravensbrück, Sachsenhausen, Stutthof, Theresienstadt.

In those cases, it has been possible to prove that confessions had been extracted by tortures and that testimonies were false.

This must be taken into account when conducting investigations and interrogations with respect to war crimes.

The result of this investigation should be brought to the cognizance of former concentration camp inmates who at the time of the hearings testified on the murder of people, especially Jews, with poison gas in those concentration camps. Should they insist on their statements, charges are to be brought against them for making false statements.

2. In the C.L. (Circular Letter) 15/48, item 1 is to be deleted.

The Head of the MPS Müller, Major" Certified true copy: Lachout, Second Lieutenant

Lachout testified that he had drafted this letter for Major Müller's signature and had watched him sign it. He had then had copies made in the office which he certified, signed and stamped. The letter was translated into three languages and confirmed by the controlling officer. Only then was it allowed to be issued. (29-7954, 7957) The letter was circulated to every military Kommando in the Russian zone to keep personnel aware of the state of investigations. No one was ever charged with making false statements because they withdrew their statements as soon as they heard about the letter. (29-7900, 7901)

In September 1987, Lachout was approached by representatives of the President of Austria, shown the original Müller document, and asked if he was the person who signed it. Lachout checked his own records and certified in District Court, Vienna, on October 27, 1987, that the signature on the document was his. (29-7946; Müller letter entered as Exh. 120)

http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/29lachout.html


Auschwitz Museum Director
Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax

By P. Samuel Foner
The Spotlight
Volume XIX, Number 2
5-31-4


In a dramatic and unprecedented videotaped interview, Dr. Franciszek Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State Museum admitted on camera that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin.

http://www.rense.com/general53/aauz.htm


Major French Magazine
Acknowledges Auschwitz
Gas Chamber Fraud

L'Express also reports that, after a five-year battle among the "experts," Polish president Lech Walesa has decided that the new, revised number of dead to be inscribed on the Birkenau monument will be 1,500,000. (For years the monument proclaimed 4,000,000 Auschwitz deaths.)
In 1948, when the Museum was created, Crematory I was reconstructed in a supposed original state. Everything in it is false.

http://rense.com/general49/gascam.htm

A Factual Appraisal Of
The 'Holocaust'
By The Red Cross

This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source incorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works: Documents sur l'activité du CICR en faveur des civils détenus dans les camps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and Inter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War (Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet, explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in the tradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, and herein lies its great value.

The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies the legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in concentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the two categories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the second type as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German, "Schutzhäftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motives because their presence was considered a danger to the State or the occupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues, "were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisoned under common law for security reasons." (P.74).

The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permit supervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating to security, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained important concessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute food parcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and "from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all other camps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78). The ICRC soon established contact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programme which continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters of thanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.

Red Cross Recipients Were Jews

The Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily. >From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with a total weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps" (Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing and pharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald, Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg, Landsberg-am-Lech, Flöha, Ravensbrück, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen, Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and in Central and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians, Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews" (Vol. III, p. 83).

No Evidence Of Genocide

One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in the camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaotic condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ... In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results. Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate was authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).

Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable.

In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of a deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages the Report does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber.

http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm

World War Two
Japanese Internment Camps in the USA

On December 7th 1941, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. US citizens feared another attack and war hysteria seized the country.

State representatives put pressure on President Roosevelt to take action against those of Japanese descent living in the US.

On February 19th 1942 Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066. Under the terms of the Order, some 120,000 people of Japanese descent living in the US were removed from their homes and placed in internment camps. The US justified their action by claiming that there was a danger of those of Japanese descent spying for the Japanese. However more than two thirds of those interned were American citizens and half of them were children. None had ever shown disloyalty to the nation. In some cases family members were separated and put in different camps. During the entire war only ten people were convicted of spying for Japan and these were all Caucasian.

http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW2/japan_internment_camps.htm

[mysticmolly]

General Eisenhower Warned Us, and this IS a matter of history, that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead.

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'



The photos presented at the trials were of Dresden, done by that monster Churchill ... bloody hell ... just when will people wake up!

[torus]

Two sides to every story steve. penny wise, pound foolish.

"God, I hate the Germans..." (Dwight David Eisenhower in a letter to his wife in September, 1944)

Eisenhower's Slaughter Of Nearly
2 Million German POWS
Inside 'Eisenhower's Death Camps' -
A U.S. Prison Guard Tells His Story
By Martin Brech
The Journal of Historical Review, vol. 10, no. 2, pp. 161-166
12-3-9

In October, 1944, at age eighteen, I was drafted into the U.S. army. Largely because of the "Battle of the Bulge," my training was cut short. My furlough was halved, and I was sent overseas immediately. Upon arrival in Le Havre, France, we were quickly loaded into box cars and shipped to the front. When we got there, I was suffering increasingly severe symptoms of mononucleosis, and was sent to a hospital in Belgium. Since mononucleosis was then known as the "kissing disease," I mailed a letter of thanks to my girlfriend.

By the time I left the hospital, the outfit I had trained with in Spartanburg, South Carolina was deep inside Germany, so, despite my protests, I was placed in a "repo depot"(replacement depot). I lost interest in the units to which I was assigned and don't recall all of them: non-combat units were ridiculed at that time. My separation qualification record states I was mostly with Company C, 14th Infantry Regiment, during my seventeen-month stay in Germany, but I remember being transferred to other outfits also.

In late March or early April, 1945, I was sent to guard a POW camp near Andernach along the Rhine. I had four years of high school German, so I was able to talk to the prisoners, although this was forbidden. Gradually, however, I was used as an interpreter and asked to ferret out members of the S.S. (I found none.)

In Andernach about 50,000 prisoners of all ages were held in an open field surrounded by barbed wire. The women were kept in a separate enclosure I did not see until later. The men I guarded had no shelter and no blankets; many had no coats. They slept in the mud, wet and cold, with inadequate slit trenches for excrement. It was a cold, wet spring and their misery from exposure alone was evident.

Even more shocking was to see the prisoners throwing grass and weeds into a tin can containing a thin soup. They told me they did this to help ease their hunger pains. Quickly, they grew emaciated. Dysentery raged, and soon they were sleeping in their own excrement, too weak and crowded to reach the slit trenches. Many were begging for food, sickening and dying before our eyes. We had ample food and supplies, but did nothing to help them, including no medical assistance.

Outraged, I protested to my officers and was met with hostility or bland indifference. When pressed, they explained they were under strict orders from "higher up." No officer would dare do this to 50,000 men if he felt that it was "out of line," leaving him open to charges. Realizing my protests were useless, I asked a friend working in the kitchen if he could slip me some extra food for the prisoners. He too said they were under strict orders to severely ration the prisoners' food and that these orders came from "higher up." But he said they had more food than they knew what to do with and would sneak me some.

When I threw this food over the barbed wire to the prisoners, I was caught and threatened with imprisonment. I repeated the "offense," and one officer angrily threatened to shoot me. I assumed this was a bluff until I encountered a captain on a hill above the Rhine shooting down at a group of German civilian women with his .45 caliber pistol. When I asked, Why?," he mumbled, "Target practice," and fired until his pistol was empty. I saw the women running for cover, but, at that distance, couldn't tell if any had been hit.

This is when I realized I was dealing with cold-blooded killers filled with moralistic hatred. They considered the Germans subhuman and worthy of extermination; another expression of the downward spiral of racism. Articles in the G.I. newspaper, Stars and Stripes, played up the German concentration camps, complete with photos of emaciated bodies; this amplified our self-righteous cruelty and made it easier to imitate behavior we were supposed to oppose. Also, I think, soldiers not exposed to combat were trying to prove how tough they were by taking it out on the prisoners and civilians.

These prisoners, I found out, were mostly farmers and workingmen, as simple and ignorant as many of our own troops. As time went on, more of them lapsed into a zombie-like state of listlessness, while others tried to escape in a demented or suicidal fashion, running through open fields in broad daylight towards the Rhine to quench their thirst. They were mowed down.Some prisoners were as eager for cigarettes as for food, saying they took the edge off their hunger. Accordingly, enterprising G.I. "Yankee traders" were acquiring hordes of watches and rings in exchange for handfuls of cigarettes or less. When I began throwing cartons of cigarettes to the prisoners to ruin this trade, I was threatened by rank-and-file G.I.s too.

The only bright spot in this gloomy picture came one night when.I was put on the "graveyard shift," from two to four A.M. Actually, there was a graveyard on the uphill side of this enclosure, not many yards away. My superiors had forgotten to give me a flashlight and I hadn't bothered to ask for one, disgusted as I was with the whole situation by that time. It was a fairly bright night and I soon became aware of a prisoner crawling under the wires towards the graveyard. We were supposed to shoot escapees on sight, so I started to get up from the ground to warn him to get back. Suddenly I noticed another prisoner crawling from the graveyard back to the enclosure. They were risking their lives to get to the graveyard for something; I had to investigate.

When I entered the gloom of this shrubby, tree-shaded cemetery, I felt completely vulnerable, but somehow curiosity kept me moving. Despite my caution, I tripped over the legs of someone in a prone position. Whipping my rifle around while stumbling and trying to regain composure of mind and body, I soon was relieved I hadn't reflexively fired. The figure sat up. Gradually, I could see the beautiful but terror-stricken face of a woman with a picnic basket nearby. German civilians were not allowed to feed, nor even come near the prisoners, so I quickly assured her I approved of what she was doing, not to be afraid, and that I would leave the graveyard to get out of the way.

I did so immediately and sat down, leaning against a tree at the edge of the cemetery to be inconspicuous and not frighten the prisoners. I imagined then, and still do now, what it would be like to meet a beautiful woman with a picnic basket, under those conditions as a prisoner. I have never forgotten her face.

Eventually, more prisoners crawled back to the enclosure. I saw they were dragging food to their comrades and could only admire their courage and devotion.

On May 8, V.E. Day, I decided to celebrate with some prisoners I was guarding who were baking bread the other prisoners occasionally received. This group had all the bread they could eat, and shared the jovial mood generated by the end of the war. We all thought we were going home soon, a pathetic hope on their part. We were in what was to become the French zone, where I soon would witness the brutality of the French soldiers when we transferred our prisoners to them for their slave labor camps.

On this day, however, we were happy.

As a gesture of friendliness, I emptied my rifle and stood it in the corner, even allowing them to play with it at their request! This thoroughly "broke the ice," and soon we were singing songs we taught each other or I had learned in high school German ("Du, du liegst mir im Herzen"). Out of gratitude, they baked me a special small loaf of sweet bread, the only possible present they had left to offer. I stuffed it in my "Eisenhower jacket" and snuck it back to my barracks, eating it when I had privacy. I have never tasted more delicious bread, nor felt a deeper sense of communion while eating it. I believe a cosmic sense of Christ (the Oneness of all Being) revealed its normally hidden presence to me on that occasion, influencing my later decision to major in philosophy and religion.

Shortly afterwards, some of our weak and sickly prisoners were marched off by French soldiers to their camp. We were riding on a truck behind this column. Temporarily, it slowed down and dropped back, perhaps because the driver was as shocked as I was. Whenever a German prisoner staggered or dropped back, he was hit on the head with a club until he died. The bodies were rolled to the side of the road to be picked up by another truck. For many, this quick death might have been preferable to slow starvation in our "killing fields."

When I finally saw the German women in a separate enclosure, I asked why we were holding them prisoner. I was told they were "camp followers," selected as breeding stock for the S.S. to create a super-race. I spoke to some and must say I never met a more spirited or attractive group of women. I certainly didn't think they deserved imprisonment.

I was used increasingly as an interpreter, and was able to prevent some particularly unfortunate arrests. One rather amusing incident involved an old farmer who was being dragged away by several M.P's. I was told he had a "fancy Nazi medal," which they showed me. Fortunately, I had a chart identifying such medals. He'd been awarded it for having five children! Perhaps his wife was somewhat relieved to get him "off her back," but I didn't think one of our death camps was a fair punishment for his contribution to Germany. The M.P.s agreed and released him to continue his "dirty work."

Famine began to spread among the German civilians also. It was a common sight to see German women up to their elbows in our garbage cans looking for something edible -- that is, if they weren't chased away.

When I interviewed mayors of small towns and villages, I was told their supply of food had been taken away by "displaced persons" (foreigners who had worked in Germany), who packed the food on trucks and drove away. When I reported this, the response was a shrug. I never saw any Red Cross at the camp or helping civilians, although their coffee and doughnut stands were available everywhere else for us. In the meantime, the Germans had to rely on the sharing of hidden stores until the next harvest.

Hunger made German women more "available," but despite this, rape was prevalent and often accompanied by additional violence. In particular I remember an eighteen-year old woman who had the side of her faced smashed with a rifle butt and was then raped by two G.I.s. Even the French complained that the rapes, looting and drunken destructiveness on the part of our troops was excessive. In Le Havre, we'd been given booklets warning us that the German soldiers had maintained a high standard of behavior with French civilians who were peaceful, and that we should do the same. In this we failed miserably.

"So what?" some would say. "The enemy's atrocities were worse than ours." It is true that I experienced only the end of the war, when we were already the victors. The German opportunity for atrocities had faded; ours was at hand. But two wrongs don't make a right. Rather than copying our enemy's crimes, we should aim once and for all to break the cycle of hatred and vengeance that has plagued and distorted human history. This is why I am speaking out now, forty-five years after the crime. We can never prevent individual war crimes, but we can, if enough of us speak out, influence government policy. We can reject government propaganda that depicts our enemies as subhuman and encourages the kind of outrages I witnessed. We can protest the bombing of civilian targets, which still goes on today. And we can refuse ever to condone our government's murder of unarmed and defeated prisoners of war.

I realize it is difficult for the average citizen to admit witnessing a crime of this magnitude, especially if implicated himself. Even G.I's sympathetic to the victims were afraid to complain and get into trouble, they told me. And the danger has not ceased. Since I spoke out a few weeks ago, I have received threatening calls and had my mailbox smashed. But its been worth it. Writing about these atrocities has been a catharsis of feeling suppressed too long, a liberation, and perhaps will remind other witnesses that "the truth will make us free, have no fear." We may even learn a supreme lesson from all this: only love can conquer all.

[torus]

http://judicial-inc.biz/Hopie_ike.htm

[johnthejedi24]

I can not believe David Icke and the moderators on this board allow this revisionist shit to be spewed. It degrades any credibility Icke has left and just plain sickens me.:mad: Yes millions of people died in the holocaust; not just Jews nut Gypsies, Homosexual, communists(though I have not love for them and could care less), union activists, Jehovas Witnesses...etc. Their will NEVER be a correct figure of the death toll, but PLEASE do not say it did not happen. BECAUSE IT DID!:mad:

[runciter]

I can not believe David Icke and the moderators on this board allow this revisionist shit to be spewed. It degrades any credibility Icke has left and just plain sickens me.:mad: Yes millions of people died in the holocaust; not just Jews nut Gypsies, Homosexual, communists(though I have not love for them and could care less), union activists, Jehovas Witnesses...etc. Their will NEVER be a correct figure of the death toll, but PLEASE do not say it did not happen. BECAUSE IT DID!:mad:

the term holocaust usually refers to the planned extermination of european jews with gassings.

some people make some pertinent observations regarding the "final solution" and the gas chambers.

the current trend is to introduce laws that criminalize this kind of discussion, a form of censorship.

[runciter]

The list of names of Christians is too long ...easier just to name the Jews.

i like blue.

i'm talking about the present, "organized jewry" defends the interests of the zionist elite.

a lot of foot soldiers to take control of gentile governments, and central bankers at the very top.

[velma]

I can not believe David Icke and the moderators on this board allow this revisionist shit to be spewed. It degrades any credibility Icke has left and just plain sickens me.:mad: Yes millions of people died in the holocaust; not just Jews nut Gypsies, Homosexual, communists(though I have not love for them and could care less), union activists, Jehovas Witnesses...etc. Their will NEVER be a correct figure of the death toll, but PLEASE do not say it did not happen. BECAUSE IT DID!:mad:


Douglas Reed who was Chief Correspondent for Central Europe and the Balkans and had worked for The Times for seventeen years; (the "John Simpson" of his day) resigned because his reports from the frontline on "the most momentous matters of the day" were disregarded.

He wrote:

"At that period I, typical of Englishmen of my generation, had never thought of Jews as different from myself, nor could I have said what might make a Jew, in his opinion, different from me. If I later became aware of any differentiation, or of the desire of a powerful group to assert one, this was not the result of Hitler's deeds but of the new impediment to impartial reporting which I then began to observe. When the general persecution began I reported it as I saw it. If I learned of a concentration camp containing a thousand captives I reported this; if I learned that the thousand included thirty or fifty Jews I reported that. I saw the first terror, spoke with many of the victims, examined their injuries, and was warned that I incurred Gestapo hostility thereby. The victims were in the great majority, certainly much over ninety percent, Germans, and a few were Jews. This reflected the population-ratio, in Germany and later in the countries overrun by Hitler. But the manner of reporting in the world's press in time blocked-out the great suffering mass, leaving only the case of the Jews.

I illustrate this by episodes and passages from my own experience and reporting. Rabbi Stephen Wise, writing in 1949, gave the following version of events personally reported by me in 1933, and undoubtedly purveyed the same version in the presidential circle of which he was a familiar during those years: "The measures against the Jews continued to outstrip in systematic cruelty and planned destruction the terror against other groups. On January 29, 1933 Hitler was summoned to be chancellor . . . at once the reign of terror began with beatings and imprisonment of Jews. . . We planned a protest march in New York on May 10, the day of the ordered burning of Jewish books in Germany . . . the brunt of the attack was borne by Jews. . . concentration camps were established and filled with Jews".

All these statements are false. The measures against the Jews did not outstrip the terror against other groups; the Jews were involved in a much larger number of others. The reign of terror did not begin on January 29, 1933, but in the night of the Reichstag fire, February 27. No "burning of Jewish books" was ordered; I attended and reported that bonfire and have looked up my report published in The Times, to verify my recollection. A mass of "Marxist" books was burned, inc1uding the works of many German, English and other non-Jewish writers (my books, had they then been published, would undoubtedly have been among them); the bonfire inc1uded some Jewish books. the "brunt" of the terror was not borne by Jews, nor were the concentration camps "filled with Jews". The number of Jewish victims was in proportion to their ratio of the population."

[rodin]

What do you say

http://www.911missinglinks.com/

[rodin]

I can not believe David Icke and the moderators on this board allow this revisionist shit to be spewed. It degrades any credibility Icke has left and just plain sickens me.:mad: Yes millions of people died in the holocaust; not just Jews nut Gypsies, Homosexual, communists(though I have not love for them and could care less), union activists, Jehovas Witnesses...etc. Their will NEVER be a correct figure of the death toll, but PLEASE do not say it did not happen. BECAUSE IT DID!:mad:

Au contraire

The more freedom of speech the more the pros and cons of arguments can be debated the more credibility a site has. Truth does not need the protection of the law. Lies do.

[rodin]

strange doings at judicial-inc.biz‏



"The problem is, Skunkie [= JUDICIAL-INC.BIZ] is either off his rocker, or he is a "joooo plant" himself. Everything is a goddamn "joooo conspiracy" to him. He accuses everyone, or very nearly everyone, of being a "jooo" or a "jooo poodle" or something. David Irving, Stormfront, Don Black, VNN, Alex Linder, Overthrow.com, Bill White, the National Socialist Movement, IHR, WCOTC, William Pierce, National Alliance, National Vanguard, you name it: all "jooos" or "jooo plants" or "jooo poodles".

"… I don't trust him and I don't think any rational person should, no matter how slick he is. An Israel Shahak or Norman Finkelstein is a much more positive contributor to the cause of the truth than Skunkie will ever be.

MORE HERE ...
http://www.cwporter.com/judicialinc.htm

I saw that ages ago. Not much of a hit piece is it?

While Skunk does use 'artistic licence' I think his info and analyses are close to the mark

[rodin]

Just cause someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're lying.

6 Reasons Why We Lie

We all lie, but why do we lie? Sure, lying is both useful and sometimes even fun, yet there are fundamental reasons why we lie.

These main reasons are:

Fear of harm: The easiest reason to understand why we lie is for self protection, including self deception, to prevent harm to ourselves. This harm can be either physical or mental.

Fear of conflict: To some degree, we all fear having an argument.

Fear of punishment: When growing up, how often did we lie about how well we did in school, or who started a fight? How often do we cover up our mistakes and transgressions?

Fear of rejection: Sometimes, our insecurities are the foundation of why we lie to each other, because we want to be remain popular in our relationships. Typically, it is harmless boasting to make ourselves appear more admirable to other people.

Fear of loss: This is usually the loss of personal objects, such as money or expensive valuables. Greed is the foundation for this reason and can be found in each of us. We often lie to make ourselves more desirable to other people too. Most common, people lie for fear of losing an opportunity to have sex. Other times, when our self esteem starts to decline, we even lie to ourselves as means to prevent loss of morale.

Altruistic Reasons: We often lie to help our friends and loved ones. How often do we flattery someone just to make them feel better? This is the only selfless reason why we lie.

Despite all the technical reasons why people lie, it all boils down to this:


The fundamental reason why people lie is because it mostly works.


And because lying has become more understood in today’s society, lying has become more acceptable. It has sometimes even become an admirable and useful social skill.

That is the Truth about Lies.

Some things are true that never happened

Is that truth or a lie?

[icarus]

whether true or not, i'm just grateful to this site for allowing free discussion of this crucial topic

the litmus test for me of a site is how it treats posts about this issue

they simply cannot allow it to be openly discussed, and it isn't allowed to be on many so called truth sites, where mentioning these topics get's you quickly banned

i guess it helps that David Ike appears to have his doubts as well

[johnthejedi24]

When has David Icke said that Holocaust never happened or is sharply down graded in scale?:confused:

[tenzingnorgay]

i can not believe david icke and the moderators on this board allow this revisionist shit to be spewed. It degrades any credibility icke has left and just plain sickens me.:mad: Yes millions of people died in the holocaust; not just jews nut gypsies, homosexual, communists(though i have not love for them and could care less), union activists, jehovas witnesses...etc. Their will never be a correct figure of the death toll, but please do not say it did not happen. Because it did!:mad:


it did not happen.

[icarus]

When has David Icke said that Holocaust never happened or is sharply down graded in scale?:confused:

he hasn't that i'm aware of, but he doesn't believe the official version, which is denial in the eye of ADL etc

[sodi]

Do Muslims really not believe in the holocaust ?

[eternal wheel]

Just cause someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're lying.
.

so how much did you/your family get/demand in reparations??
the whole holocaust lie is just another way for jews to amass more wealth.
you don't hear the gypsies bleating on about it like the jews, they bare their losses with stoic dignity. and per capita the gypsy losses were far, far greater than the jewish.

[libertad101]

If they want to talk about "holocaust", you'd better bite your tounge before you put "Jewish" next to it....because gypsies were the main victims.

[lightgiver]

If they want to talk about "holocaust", you'd better bite your tounge before you put "Jewish" next to it....because gypsies were the main victims.

and lots more,disabled people, etc etc.:(

Crass / The Gasman Cometh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGJoLgtBjck

if the video sticketh :rolleyes:

[aneurysm]

I can not believe David Icke and the moderators on this board allow this revisionist shit to be spewed. It degrades any credibility Icke has left and just plain sickens me.:mad: Yes millions of people died in the holocaust; not just Jews nut Gypsies, Homosexual, communists(though I have not love for them and could care less), union activists, Jehovas Witnesses...etc. Their will NEVER be a correct figure of the death toll, but PLEASE do not say it did not happen. BECAUSE IT DID!:mad:

That statement dumbed down your message beyond all recognition. This message is now invalid.

The holocaust never took place. An attempt of the holocaust might have taken place, but there was never an extinction of the jews.

[octopusrex]

The HOLOCAUST WAS A HELLL OF A HOLOCAUST FOR GERMANY TOO!:mad:

[libertad101]

The HOLOCAUST WAS A HELLL OF A HOLOCAUST FOR GERMANY TOO!:mad:

Yup, can't forget the German POW's

[accuracy]

What a hopeless thread full of "blaaah blaah blah' bullshit.
:D