Forum's misunderstanding of magic

[kitler]

I keep reading a lot of posts about magic that are completely misleading and bear no relation to real magic. If you want results then you need to do it properly and before you can do that you need to understand how it works.

To start you off here is a tip. STOP VISUALISING. Anyone who tells you to visualise is wrong. REMOVE ALL THOUGHTS AND IMAGES FROM YOUR MIND AND KEEP IT SHORT. Magic is all about increasing the probability of a desired outcome. When you visualise you create a picture of the future and the odds of a person correctly picturing any future are astronomical.

If anyone would like to discuss this further that would be nice :)

[jamesc]

I keep reading a lot of posts about magic that are completely misleading and bear no relation to real magic. If you want results then you need to do it properly and before you can do that you need to understand how it works.

To start you off here is a tip. STOP VISUALISING. Anyone who tells you to viualise is wrong. REMOVE ALL THOUGHTS AND IMAGES FROM YOUR MIND AND KEEP IT SHORT. Magic is all about increasing the probability of a desired outcome. When you viualise you create a picture of the future and the odds of a person correctly picturing any future are astronomical.

If anyone would like to discuss this further that would be nice :)



Yes magic is also intended to rise the magician above nature and control the elements so one can have the WILL to influence all outcomes by ones will.When i say control i mean with respecting these nature elements as well.Then there is the understanding of the intelligences of the dimensions/astral planes like the lower and upper astral planes.That is where the real influences and magic take place. It is changing any desired wants or outcomes by use of ones will in conjunction with the correct magical rituals:cool:

[strt]

If anyone would like to discuss this further that would be nice :)

Can you give some practical example?

[kitler]

I should point out I am not a magician and there are many here who are greater authorities on the subject of magic than mayself. I know absolutly nothing of astral planes higher realms or dimensions diferent from the one I am consious of. Nor do I want to. I am scared of things I don't understand and that have the potential to fuck up my mind.

As for practical examples of anything magic related I'm not sure what I can do. I mentioned binding spells on another thread maybe I could ellaborate. Something only becomes a 'spell' when there is intent behind it. Otherwise it is just another force of nature bumbling though time existing however things exist when not being observed. With regards to a 'binding spell' it is really no more of a 'spell' than all the other junk that sloshes round your mind until it is intentionaly manipulted into having a desired result. Most often such spells are cast by the victim themself.

They work by binding the ego to certain ideas so that it believes it is inseperable from these ideas and thus any threat to the idea is a threat to the egos own existence and worth. Mankind has been ripping itself apart over binding spells for eons. One could say it is the life force of this forum.

[kitler]

Some examples of binding spells that are common place.

Being trapped in a relationship with an abusive or unsatisfying partner

Believing homosexuality/political correctness/X-Factor are wrong and MUST NOT be enjoyed

Any religion INCLUDING ABSOLUTE BELIEF IN 'THE CONSPIRACY'

Brand Loyalty, especially with cigarettes and tobbacco

Smoking/Non smoking, Isreal/Palestine, socialism/capitalism, Global Warming is True/False

[armoured_amazon]

Yes, remove all control of the house, so others can enter.

[chris]

I think it's debatable to imagine stuff during a ritual. Some instances definately calls for it such as assuming godforms, other times imo don't call for it. Since you're making the gestures, that you will imagine it better simply by relaxing. For instance, I don't consciously imagine a pentagram when I'm tracing one in the lbrp.

I started a thread about this on a thelamic forum but unfortunatly the link doesn't work right now...

My biggest tip is to simply practice and understanding will come, you may feel like your doing something completely silly and dogmatic but after a while, it does work.

Keep the faith.

[kitler]

I think it's debatable to imagine stuff during a ritual. Some instances definately calls for it such as assuming godforms, other times imo don't call for it. Since you're making the gestures, that you will imagine it better simply by relaxing. For instance, I don't consciously imagine a pentagram when I'm tracing one in the lbrp.

I started a thread about this on a thelamic forum but unfortunatly the link doesn't work right now...

My biggest tip is to simply practice and understanding will come, you may feel like your doing something completely silly and dogmatic but after a while, it does work.

Keep the faith.

Have you ever assumed a godform? What practical benefits arise from such an act?

[chris]

Have you ever assumed a godform? What practical benefits arise from such an act?

Well to despookyfy what I said, assuming godforms is not far out at all. Very basically, all assume a godform involves is imagining yourself to be the particular diety. So you may imagine yourself to be horus or anubis etc. This practice is not exclusive to western magick, it is found world over although understood very little by those studied by it. For instance, there was a book by some guy who studied the Tibetan monks and listed their practices which included assuming godforms, however his analysis was that he would assume such a godform to scare off naughty spirits...This is not entirely correct, a better definition would be to tune in to that particular gods attributes or level of the psyche. This might be considered a modern definition. Still this lacks because it makes out that the human gives the attributes to the diety therefore the diety would be inferior to the human or that the human created the diety from a figment of his imagination which goes against magickal principals. However for all intents and purposes, it works and is more simple for regular people to understand.

[kitler]

Well to despookyfy what I said, assuming godforms is not far out at all. Very basically, all assume a godform involves is imagining yourself to be the particular diety. So you may imagine yourself to be horus or anubis etc. This practice is not exclusive to western magick, it is found world over although understood very little by those studied by it. For instance, there was a book by some guy who studied the Tibetan monks and listed their practices which included assuming godforms, however his analysis was that he would assume such a godform to scare off naughty spirits...This is not entirely correct, a better definition would be to tune in to that particular gods attributes or level of the psyche. This might be considered a modern definition. Still this lacks because it makes out that the human gives the attributes to the diety therefore the diety would be inferior to the human or that the human created the diety from a figment of his imagination which goes against magickal principals. However for all intents and purposes, it works and is more simple for regular people to understand.

What purpose does this serve?

[kitler]

Yes, remove all control of the house, so others can enter.

Exactly. Once you understand how the ego works and the difficulty an untrained mind has in controling the ego, it is easy to create binding spells of your own and cast them. Of course a lot of people do this knowingly without realising it is considered magic

[chris]

What purpose does this serve?

Well like I said, it attunes you into that particular deities attributes. Have you ever wondered why the egyptian dieties were so simple? Well partly that's because it makes for the symbolic meaning, colours and the animals attributes easily transferable to the pracititioners subconscious when imagined.

Let's take Horus, he's usually depicted as a hawk headed bird with a sun or crown with a sun on his head, all dressed in particular colours. Horus was a fighter and a hero type of diety that battled with Set. If you imagine yourself to be horus basically you will draw the fighting spirit that is equated with him into your psyche. Or perhaps, the innermind will recognise the symbolism, accept it and unlock the fighting side within you (this would be another more modern interpretation).

Most occultists like make out that what they are doing is extremely powerful and dangerous, I think this is simply them trying to make themselves sound important. I find most of what they do is really quite simple but they dress what they do up in greatness. In my opinion, it's a humble art which very subtile effects that accumilate over time. You'd be fooled by a lot of occultists to believe that as soon as you intone an enochian word, you're going to be whisked away to narnia or something.

[kitler]

Well like I said, it attunes you into that particular deities attributes. Have you ever wondered why the egyptian dieties were so simple? Well partly that's because it makes for the symbolic meaning, colours and the animals attributes easily transferable to the pracititioners subconscious when imagined.

Let's take Horus, he's usually depicted as a hawk headed bird with a sun or crown with a sun on his head, all dressed in particular colours. Horus was a fighter and a hero type of diety that battled with Set. If you imagine yourself to be horus basically you will draw the fighting spirit that is equated with him into your psyche. Or perhaps, the innermind will recognise the symbolism, accept it and unlock the fighting side within you (this would be another more modern interpretation)..


Sounds interesting. I might give it a try

Most occultists like make out that what they are doing is extremely powerful and dangerous, I think this is simply them trying to make themselves sound important. I find most of what they do is really quite simple but they dress what they do up in greatness. In my opinion, it's a humble art which very subtile effects that accumilate over time. You'd be fooled by a lot of occultists to believe that as soon as you intone an enochian word, you're going to be whisked away to narnia or something.

I agree. The most astonishing thing about magic for me is how simple and basic it is.

[chris]

Sounds interesting. I might give it a try

Alone I am not sure of it's effectiveness, perhaps you should buy a book called Ceremonial Magic by Israel Regardie if you would like a real book on magic.

[nectars]

Exactly. Once you understand how the ego works and the difficulty an untrained mind has in controling the ego, it is easy to create binding spells of your own and cast them. Of course a lot of people do this knowingly without realising it is considered magic

I'd be careful about that first part, you may want to spend some time in contemplation of it. In my own understanding, neither "I" nor the Ego control the mind; Both use the mind, but not to think. Also contrary to popular belief I've found the mind does have an opinion thats attributed to neither "myself" or the ego; it will undo both if it has sufficient evidence to do so.

On another note I wouldn't discount visualisation. As Chris mentioned, it definitely plays its part in rituals -like the LBRP or Elements(gold square, blue circle, red triange, silver crescent etc). The problem arises when the untrained attempt to do it through "picturing" by use of the inagination within the mind as it generally gets them stuck in the past or future, and is generally automatically undone by the Law of Reversal. The mind has a tendency to knee jerk in the opposite direction of whats "wanted" -which is a whole other issue on its own.

I tend to advise most do not visualise but harness the imagination through writing without trying to actually picture it; the mind gets the point without any help(symbolically), and depending on its position on it(the imagined) and you will either co-operate or not.

The power of both the Mind and the Imagination is truely astonishing once realized.

Of course a lot of people do this knowingly without realising it is considered magic

Most on these forums discount Magick, yet every thought, every feeling and word spoken or typed invokes or evokes it.

[kitler]

I'd be careful about that first part, you may want to spend some time in contemplation of it. In my own understanding, neither "I" nor the Ego control the mind; Both use the mind, but not to think. Also contrary to popular belief I've found the mind does have an opinion thats attributed to neither "myself" or the ego; it will undo both if it has sufficient evidence to do so.

On another note I wouldn't discount visualisation. As Chris mentioned, it definitely plays its part in rituals -like the LBRP or Elements(gold square, blue circle, red triange, silver crescent etc). The problem arises when the untrained attempt to do it through "picturing" by use of the inagination within the mind as it generally gets them stuck in the past or future, and is generally automatically undone by the Law of Reversal. The mind has a tendency to knee jerk in the opposite direction of whats "wanted" -which is a whole other issue on its own.

I tend to advise most do not visualise but harness the imagination through writing without trying to actually picture it; the mind gets the point without any help(symbolically), and depending on its position on it(the imagined) and you will either co-operate or not.

The power of both the Mind and the Imagination is truely astonishing once realized.



Most on these forums discount Magick, yet every thought, every feeling and word spoken or typed invokes or evokes it.

I say ego but its just a word. I mean the 'insecure self' that binds itself to ideas and filters out any information that threatens the absolute truth of the idea. It is my opinion that most people are governed by this.

I prefer intent without specifics to visualisation. Visualisation has inspired me but physicaly it has provided me with nothing. Projecting my intent then forgeting about it has given me much, esspecially considering I am new to this.

[nectars]

I say ego but its just a word. I mean the 'insecure self' that binds itself to ideas and filters out any information that threatens the absolute truth of the idea. It is my opinion that most people are governed by this.

I prefer intent without specifics to visualisation. Visualisation has inspired me but physicaly it has provided me with nothing. Projecting my intent then forgeting about it has given me much, esspecially considering I am new to this.

First off, apologies as I may have picked up your former comment in the wrong context.

I actually agree completely with the above. The "ego" is nothing more than a phantom built on a need for seperation, security(survival), love, control and which continually identifies itself "as" its own preferences, tendencies and positionalities instead of "having" them thereby allowing itself to move past them -all of which are stored as energy patterns(or programmes) in(or by) the mind.

Regarding intent, it is a very powerful thing as you've found, though with some exploration it is also found to utilise the imagination, if in a different way(I use "imagination" as I have issues with the concept of "visualisation" myself). The difference being that intent seems to use the imagination on a more unconsious level through associated symbolism and not by direct conscious "visualising". Intent is of the Will; its a decision, which I've found can be its only drawback. In my own experience and that which I've observed in others, if you put Will against the Imagination it can easily lose, yet both used in unison can be unstoppable.

[kitler]

First off, apologies as I may have picked up your former comment in the wrong context.

I actually agree completely with the above. The "ego" is nothing more than a phantom built on a need for seperation, security(survival), love, control and which continually identifies itself "as" its own preferences, tendencies and positionalities instead of "having" them thereby allowing itself to move past them -all of which are stored as energy patterns(or programmes) in(or by) the mind.

Regarding intent, it is a very powerful thing as you've found, though with some exploration it is also found to utilise the imagination, if in a different way(I use "imagination" as I have issues with the concept of "visualisation" myself). The difference being that intent seems to use the imagination on a more unconsious level through associated symbolism and not by direct conscious "visualising". Intent is of the Will; its a decision, which I've found can be its only drawback. In my own experience and that which I've observed in others, if you put Will against the Imagination it can easily lose, yet both used in unison can be unstoppable.

No appologies needed:) I dislike any modern science words like ego, id, subconsious, evolution, etc that get chucked about by people how know nothing past the word itself, but sometimes I use them to save time.

As for visualising and intent etc, on a practical level every time I have tried to achieve something through magic I have failed. However when I let go and do not try, magical things happen. Based on my admitedly limited experience, I believe that the visualising and focusing can actually be detremental to the results. I am also in no doubt that speaking your goal aloud to others diminishes the probability of the goal being achieved.
I may be wrong though and it would be arogant of me to mistake my own experience for absolute fact.

[jp13]

Visualisation is a tool, but not everyone has the ability to use it, and when doing a pathworking from a book or something, may think they are doing it wrong as they can't visualise, there are as many possibilities as there are people, and when they work and look at the experience they may notice or feel something touching them, or hear something, feel something in their body.
(this wandering cursor is doing my head in, but that's another story) what I mean is don't get caught up in pedantics, don't disregard the experience if it doesn't match the one in the book, and keep doing it for a reasonable amount of time to give yourself a chance to see the changes in your perceptions.

"As for visualising and intent etc, on a practical level every time I have tried to achieve something through magic I have failed. However when I let go and do not try, magical things happen. Based on my admitedly limited experience, I believe that the visualising and focusing can actually be detremental to the results. I am also in no doubt that speaking your goal aloud to others diminishes the probability of the goal being achieved.
I may be wrong though and it would be arogant of me to mistake my own experience for absolute fact." I think your on the ball there, also learn to forget, but keep records if that makes sense.

[linda28]

My experience with magick, is that to get the outcome you want, FEEL IT. You need to BECOME IT. I have manifested things against all odds, like meeting certain people on the other side of the world, at the most unlikely places. And it happened because I invited them with my emotions, kinda.
I did not know who they were beforehand, but it does not matter at all.

And yes, to get "godlike" power, what works here is also to feel it. Visualizing it can help to make you feel you already have it. A good factor when attracting it.