Fraud of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion [Archive]

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aronia

04-11-2009, 09:01 AM

It’s pretty easy to hoax people. We all want to be deceived, but only up to a point. Some hoaxes are fun and pleasant, others malicious and unpleasant. We’d like a way to tell the difference (Robert Carroll).
Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Dangerous Fraud of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion
LINK (http://best-hoaxes.blogspot.com/2009/09/dangerous-fraud-of-protocols-of-elders.html)

It has been proved that these ‘Protocols’
are a fraud, a clumsy plagiarism. . . made for
the purpose of rendering the Jews odious...
Father Pierre Charles,
Professor of Theology,
Jesuit College in Louvain,
France, 1938

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, by "Jewish elders". Written by Hermann Goedsche in the 1860s, and redacted by Matvei Golovinski in the 1890s. First printed in 1897. Debunked by Lucien Wolf in 1920. But these anti-Semitic legends of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world (and using the blood of Christian children for passover) continued to find adherents, mostly because the hoax played on prejudice more than gullibility per se.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a tract alleging a Jewish and Masonic plot to achieve world domination. The book purports to be derived from "protocols" written by a secret group of Jews known as the Elders of Zion, and underlies 24 protocols that are supposedly followed by the Jewish people. The Protocols has been proven to be a literary forgery and hoax as well as a clear case of plagiarism.

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History

The original source has been identified as an 1864 book by Maurice Joly titled The Dialogue in Hell between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, which was written as a satirical attack against the ambitions and methods of French Emperor Napoleon III. In the book, Machiavelli represented Napoleon III, and described a series of steps that he intended to take to become ruler of the world. The Joly book was in turn based on material borrowed from a popular novel of the time by Eugène Sue titled The Mysteries of the People, in which those plotting to rule the world were the Jesuits instead of Napoleon III. Neither the Joly book nor the Sue book mentioned either Jews or Masons.

Based on evidence repeatedly corroborated by British, German, Ukrainian, Polish and Russian sources over a 75 year period, The Protocols, far from being a "discovered" document as it was claimed to be, was in fact deliberately fabricated sometime between 1895 and 1902 by Russian journalist Matvei Golovinski. In a Swiss lawsuit in the late 1930s concerning circulation of the Protocols, "Two of the Russian witnesses gave testimony pointing to the involvement of Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky in the forgery". Rachkovsky was head of the Paris branch of the Russian secret police.

The source material for the forgery was a synthesis between Joly's book and a chapter from a work of fiction titled Biarritz, which was written in 1868 by antisemitic German novelist Hermann Goedsche and translated into Russian in 1872. In creating the Protocols, Golovinski took Joly's novel and changed the plotters from Napoleon III to the Jews, just as Joly had changed the plotters from the Jesuits to Napoleon III in his version of the story. The current belief is the forgery was initiated and authorized by factions of the Russian aristocracy opposed to the political and social reforms initiated by the previous Tsar, (Alexander II). The fabricated document was meant to convince the antisemitic Tsar Nicholas II not to allow additional reforms, since all reforms would play into the hands of this just uncovered "secret Jewish plot". Once the Russian Revolution began in 1905, however, the use of the forgery changed. The same group, now part of the White movement, disseminated the document during their 18 year fight against the Bolsheviks in an attempt to link the Red Army, which had a few Jews in its leadership, to the fictitious conspiracy.

First fraud investigation, 1905
A secret investigation ordered by the newly appointed chairman of the Council of Ministers Pyotr Stolypin came to the conclusion that the Protocols are definitely a fraud, and that they first appeared in Paris in anti-Semitic circles around 1897-1898. When Nicholas II learned of the results of this investigation, he requested, in spite of his natural anti-Semitic beliefs: "TheProtocols should be confiscated, a good cause cannot be defended by dirty means." Despite the order, or because of the "good cause", numerous reprints proliferated.

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The Russian Revolution, 1920s
After the Russian Revolution, factions connected to the White movement used the Protocols to perpetrate hatred and violence against the Jews. The idea that the Bolshevik movement was a Jewish conspiracy for world domination, plus the fact that some top Bolsheviks, particularly Leon Trotsky, were Jews, sparked worldwide interest in the Protocols.

The Times exposes a forgery, 1921
The Times exposed the Protocols as a forgery on August 16–18, 1921. In 1920-1921, the history of the concepts found in the Protocols was traced back to the works of Goedsche and Jacques Crétineau-Joly by Lucien Wolf, and published in London in August 1921. But a dramatic expose occurred in the series of articles in The Times by its Constantinople reporter, Philip Graves, who discovered the plagiarism from the work of Maurice Joly.

According to writer Peter Grose, Allen Dulles, who was in Constantinople developing relationships in post-Ottoman political structures, discovered 'the source' of the documentation ultimately provided to The Times. Grose writes that The Times extended a loan to the source, a Russian émigré who refused to be identified, with the understanding the loan would not be repaid. Colin Holmes, a lecturer in economic history of Sheffield University, identified the émigré as Michael Raslovleff, a self-identified antisemite, who gave the information to Graves so as not to "give a weapon of any kind to the Jews, whose friend I have never been."

In the first article of Graves' series, titled "A Literary Forgery", the editors of The Times wrote, "our Constantinople Correspondent presents for the first time conclusive proof that the document is in the main a clumsyplagiarism. He has forwarded us a copy of the French book from which the plagiarism is made." The New York Times reprinted the articles on September 4, 1921. In the same year, an entire book documenting the hoax was published in the United States by Herman Bernstein. Despite this widespread and extensive debunking, the Protocols continued to be regarded as important factual evidence by anti-Semites.

The Nazi propaganda, 1930s-1940s
The Protocols also became a part of the Nazi propaganda effort to justify persecution of the Jews. It was made required reading for German students. In The Holocaust: The Destruction of European Jewry 1933–1945, Nora Levin states that "Hitler used the Protocols as a manual in his war to exterminate the Jews":

“Despite conclusive proof that the Protocols were a gross forgery, they had sensational popularity and large sales in the 1920s and 1930s. They were translated into every language of Europe and sold widely in Arab lands, the United States, and England. But it was in Germany after World War I that they had their greatest success. There they were used to explain all of the disasters that had befallen the country: the defeat in the war, the hunger, the destructive inflation”.

Hitler refers to the Protocols in Mein Kampf:

... To what extent the whole existence of this people is based on a continuous lie is shown incomparably by the Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion, so infinitely hated by the Jews. They are based on a forgery, the Frankfurter Zeitung moans and screams once every week: the best proof that they are authentic. [...] the important thing is that with positively terrifying certainty they reveal the nature and activity of theJewish people and expose their inner contexts as well as their ultimate final aims.

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Hitler endorsed it in his speeches from August 1921 on, and it was studied in German classrooms after the Nazis came to power. At the height of World War II, the Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels proclaimed: "The Zionist Protocols are as up-to-date today as they were the day they were first published." In Norman Cohn's words, it served as the Nazis' "warrant for genocide".

Interesting is that the not all the Nazi leaders supported the Protocols existence at the time. In contrast to Hitler's rantings, Nazi leader Erich von dem Bach-Zelewsky admitted that there really was no "Jewish menace" (judische Gefahr) -- to use Hitler's own phrase in Mein Kampf -- or conspiracy for world domination:

“I am the only living witness but I must say the truth. Contrary to the opinion of the National Socialists, that the Jews were a highly organized group, the appalling fact was that they had no organization whatsoever. The mass of the Jewish people were taken complete by surprise. They did not know at all what to do; they had no directives or slogans as to how they should act. This is the greatest lie of anti-Semitism because it gives the lie to that old slogan that the Jews are conspiring to dominate the world and that they are so highly organized. In reality, they had no organization of their own at all, not even an information service. If they had had some sort of organization, these people could have been saved by the millions, but instead, they were taken completely by surprise. Never before has a people gone as unsuspectingly to its disaster. Nothing was prepared. Absolutely nothing”.

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The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Verdict, 1964
In 1961 Richard Helms, then Assistant Director of the CIA, stated at a Senate subcommittee hearing: "The Russians have a long tradition in the art of forgery. More than 60 years ago the Czarist intelligence service concocted and peddled a confection called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee issues a report titled The Protocols of the Elders of Zion: A “Fabricated” Historic Document. The committee concludes: “The subcommittee believes that the peddlers of the Protocols are peddlers of un-American prejudice who spread hate and dissension among the American people.”

Contemporary usage and popularity
While there is continued popularity of The Protocols in nations from South America to Asia, since the defeat of Nazi Germany and fascist Italy in WWII, governments or political leaders in most parts of the world have generally avoided claims that The Protocols represent factual evidence of a real Jewish conspiracy. The exception to this is the Middle East, where a large number of Arab and Muslim regimes and leaders have endorsed them as authentic. Past endorsements of The Protocols from Presidents Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar Sadat of Egypt, one of the President Arifs of Iraq, King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, and Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi of Libya, among other political and intellectual leaders of the Arab world, are echoed by 21st century endorsements from the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, and Hamas, to the education ministry of Saudi Arabia.

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Sources and Additional Information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
http://lorenrosson.blogspot.com/2005/10/top-20-literary-hoaxes.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread54862/pg1
http://www.scamtypes.com/the-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion.html
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007244

icarus

04-11-2009, 09:11 AM

runciter

04-11-2009, 09:13 AM

It’s pretty easy to hoax people.

this is why you're trying so hard.

that the protocols are a hoax is an obvious hoax, otherwise why are they being implemented?

they were written by the same mafia you and your guru phelps are desperately trying to protect.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/pictures/rotschld.jpg

aronia

04-11-2009, 10:14 AM

Another Zionist shill seeking to muddy the waters.

The Protocols are very much real and they accurately describe what we've seen transpire since they were discovered. They were written by the same creatures who moved into Russia and slaughtered it's inhabitants and royal family.

More of us everyday are educating about the Protocols on the interent which is why posts like the one above appear. These creatures are running scared of exposure.

Please join us in fighting them. We all saw what they are capable of on 911.

icarus are you Roman Catholic by brith?

Roman catholicism and anti semitism

A Catholic Timeline of Events Relating to Jews, Anti-Judaism, Antisemitism, and the Holocaust From the 3rd Century to the Beginning of the Third Millennium

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/timeline.htm

c. 240
Origen of Alexandria writes that the Jews "have committed the most abominable of crimes" in conspiring against Christ, and for that reason "the Jewish nation was driven from its country, and another people was called by God to the blessed election"
248
St. Cyprian writes that the Jews have fallen under the heavy wrath of God, because they have departed from the Lord, and have followed idols
306
The Council of Elvira decrees that Christians and Jews cannot intermarry, have sexual intercourse, or eat together
325
Conversation and fellowship with Jews is forbidden to the clergy by the Council of Nicaea
4th century
Christian emperors of Rome decree that Christians converting to Judaism, and Jews obstructing the conversion of other Jews to Christianity, will incur the death penalty; Jews can not marry Christians, or hold public office, or own slaves
c. 380
St. Gregory of Nyssa refers to the Jews as "murderers of the Lord, assassins of the prophets, rebels and detesters of God,... companions of the devil, race of vipers, informers, calumniators, darkeners of the mind, pharisaic leaven, Sanhedrin of demons, accursed, detested,... enemies of all that is beautiful"
c. 380
St. Ambrose calls the synagogue "a place of unbelief, a home of impiety, a refuge of insanity, damned by God Himself"
388
A mob of Christians, at the instigation of their bishop, looted and burned the synagogue in Callinicum, a town on the Euphrates. The Emperor Theodosius wants those responsible punished and the synagogue rebuilt at the expense of the bishop, but St. Ambrose, the bishop of Milan, pressures him to relent and condone the action
400
St. Augustine writes: "the Church admits and avows the Jewish people to be cursed, because after killing Christ they continue to till the ground of an earthly circumcision, an earthly Sabbath, an earthly passover, while the hidden strength or virtue of making known Christ, which this tilling contains, is not yielded to the Jews while they continue in impiety and unbelief, for it is revealed in the New Testament. While they will not turn to God, the veil which is on their minds in reading the Old Testament is not taken away... the Jewish people, like Cain, continue tilling the ground, in the carnal observance of the law, which does not yield to them its strength, because they do not perceive in it the grace of Christ"
c. 400
Calling the synagogue "brothel and theater" and "a cave of pirates and the lair of wild beasts," St. John Chrysostom writes that "the Jews behave no better than hogs and goats in their lewd grossness and the excesses of their gluttony"
413
A group of monks sweep through Palestine, destroying synagogues and massacring Jews at the Western Wall
414
St. Cyril of Alexandria expels Jews from his city
425
Jews are required by law to observe Christian feasts and fasts and to listen to sermons designed to persuade them to convert
442
The synagogue in Constantinople is turned into a church
529-553
The Code of the emperor Justinian decrees that in Christian Byzantine society Jews cannot read their sacred books in Hebrew in their synagogues, and the Mishnah and other rabbinic interpretations are banned
538
The Third Synod of Orléans decrees that Jews cannot show themselves in the streets during Passover Week
591
Pope St. Gregory the Great decrees that Jews are not to be forced into baptism "lest they return to their former superstition and die the worse for having been born again"
600
Pope St. Gregory the Great decrees that Jews should not have excessive freedom, but also "in no way should they suffer a violation of their rights"
681
The Synod of Toledo orders the burning of the Talmud and other books
768
Pope Stephen IV decries ownership of hereditary estates by "the Jewish people, ever rebellious against God and derogatory of our rites"
c. 830
Agobard, Archbishop of Lyons, writes anti-Jewish pamphlets in which he refers to Jews as "sons of darkness"
c. 937
Pope Leo VII encourages his newly appointed archbishop of Mainz to expel all Jews who refuse to be baptized
c. 1010-1020
In Rouen, Orléans, Limoges, Mainz, and probably also in Rome, Jews are converted by force, massacred, or expelled
1050
The Synod of Narbonne decrees that Christians are not permitted to live in Jewish homes
c. 1070
Pope Alexander II warns the bishops of Spain to prevent violence against the Jews because, unlike the Saracens, they "are prepared to live in servitude"
1078
The Synod of Gerona decrees that Jews must pay the same taxes as Christians to support the church
1081
Pope Gregory VII writes to King Alphonso of Spain telling him that if he allows Jews to be lords over Christians, he is oppressing the Church and exalting "the Synagogue of Satan"
1084
Rüdiger, bishop of Speyer, grants the Jews a charter allowing them to keep Christian servants and serfs, own fields and vineyards, and carry arms
1096
Massacres of Jews takes place in the First Crusade, destroying entire Jewish communities in Mainz, Speyer, Worms, Cologne and other cities. The Jewish chronicler reports: "The enemies stripped them naked and dragged them off, granting quarter to none, save those few who accepted baptism. The number of the slain was eight hundred in these two days." The chronicler Guibert de Nogent reports that the Rouen Crusaders said: "We desire to go and fight God's enemies in the East; but we have before our eyes certain Jews, a race more inimical to God than any other"
1182
Jews are expelled from France, all their property is confiscated, and Christians' debts to them are cancelled with the payment of one-fifth of their value to the treasury
1190
The Third Crusade, led by Richard the Lion-Heart, stirs anti-Jewish fervor and results in the mass suicide of the York Jews in Clifford's Tower on March 16
1198
Jews are allowed to return to France
1199
Pope Innocent III decrees that Jews are to be allowed to worship in their synagogues, they are not to be coerced into baptism, and that Jewish cemeteries are not to be mutilated
1215
The Fourth Lateran Council decrees that Jews are to wear distinctive clothing, and on the three days before Easter they are not to go out in public
1222
The Council of Oxford prohibits the construction of new synagogues
1227
The Council of Narbonne orders Jews to wear a round patch
1230
Jews in France are forbidden to lend money on interest
1234
The Council of Arles orders Jews to wear a round patch
1235
Thirty-four Jews are burned to death in Fulda on a blood-libel charge
1246
The Council of Béziers orders Jews to wear a round patch
1247
Pope Innocent IV defends the Jews: "they are wrongly accused of partaking of the heart of a murdered child at the Passover... Whenever a corpse is found somewhere, it is to the Jews that the murder is wickedly imputed. They are persecuted on the pretext of such fables... they are deprived of trial and of regular judgment; in mockery of all justice, they are stripped of their belongings, starved, imprisoned and tortured"
1254
The Council of Albi orders Jews to wear a round patch
1260
The Council of Arles orders Jews to wear a round patch, but not when traveling
1267
The Synod of Vienna decrees that Christians cannot attend Jewish ceremonies, and Jews cannot dispute with simple Christian people about the Catholic religion
1267
The Synod of Breslau decrees compulsory ghettos for Jews
1267
Pope Clement IV instructs the Franciscans and Dominicans to deal with the "new Christians" who had reverted to Judaism
c. 1270
St. Thomas Aquinas writes that the Jews sin more in their unbelief than do pagans because they have abandoned the way of justice "after knowing it in some way"
1272
Pope Gregory X defends the Jews: "It happens sometimes that Christians lose their children and that the enemies of the Jews accuse them of having kidnaped and killed these children in order to offer sacrifices with their heart and blood, and it also happens that the parents themselves, or other Christians who are enemies to the Jews, hide the children and attack the Jews, demanding of them, as ransom, a certain sum of money, on the entirely false pretext that these children had been kidnaped and killed by the Jews"
1275
Jews in England are forbidden to lend money on interest
1279
The Synod of Ofen decrees that Christians cannot sell or rent real estate to Jews
1283
Jews in France are forbidden to live in the countryside
1284
The Council of Nîmes orders Jews to wear a round patch
1289
The Council of Vienna orders Jews to wear a round patch
1290
Jews are expelled from England and southern Italy
1294
Jews in France are restricted to special quarters of the cities
1294
Jews are expelled from Bern
1298
The Jews of Röttingen, charged with profaning the Host, are massacred and burned down to the last one
1320
The "Shepherds' Crusade." A Christian chronicler records: "The shepherds laid siege to all the Jews who had come from all sides to take refuge... the Jews defended themselves heroically... but their resistance served no purpose, for the shepherds slaughtered a great number of the besieged Jews by smoke and by fire... The Jews, realizing that they would not escape alive, preferred to kill themselves... They chose one of their number (and) this man put some five hundred of them to death, with their consent. He then descended from the castle tower with the few Jewish children who still remained alive... They killed him by quartering. They spared the children, whom they made Catholics by baptism"
1326
The Council of Avignon orders Jews to wear a round patch, but not when traveling
1345
King John authorizes his subjects in Liegnitz and Breslau to destroy the Jewish cemeteries in order to use the tombstones to repair the city walls
1347-1350
During the Black Death, Jews are accused of poisoning wells in order to overthrow Christendom, and many thousands of Jews are killed. Pope Clement VI defends the Jews against these charges
1350
Jews are expelled from many parts of Germany
1367
Jews are expelled from Hungary
1368
The Council of Vabres orders Jews to wear a round patch
1381
Jews are expelled from Strasbourg
1394
The expulsion of Jews from France, begun in 1306, is completed with an edict promulgated on the Jewish Day of Atonement
1420
Jews are expelled from Mainz by the archbishop
1421
Jews are expelled from Austria
1424
Jews are expelled from Fribourg and Zurich
c. 1425
Pope Martin V denounces anti-Jewish preaching and forbids the forced baptism of Jewish children under the age of twelve
1426
Jews are expelled from Cologne
1432
Jews are expelled from Saxony
1434
The Council of Basel decrees that Jews cannot obtain academic degrees
1435
King Alfonso orders the Jews of Sicily to attach a round patch to their clothing and over their shops
1438
Jews are expelled from Mainz by the town councilors
1439
Jews are expelled from Augsburg
1453
Jews are expelled from Wurzburg
1454
Jews are expelled from Breslau
1456
Pope Callistus III bans all social communication between Christians and Jews
1462
Jews are expelled from Mainz following a conflict between two candidates for the archepiscopal seat
1467
Jews are expelled from Tlemcen
1471
Jews are expelled from Mainz by the archbishop
1475
The entire Jewish community in Trent, northern Italy, is put to death on the allegation that it had murdered a boy for religious purposes
1485
Jews are expelled from Warsaw and Cracow
1492
After forcing many Jews to be baptized and then referring to them as Marranos (swine), and after an Inquisition in which some 700 Marranos were burnt at the stake for showing signs of "Jewish" taint, Spain expels all Jews from the country
1497
Jews are expelled from Portugal
1519
Jews are expelled from Regensburg
1553
Cardinal Carafa instigates a public burning of copies of the Talmud and other Jewish religious works in a square in Rome
1555-1559
Pope Paul IV restricts Jews to ghettos and decrees that they are to wear distinctive headgear
1566-1572
Pope St. Pius V expels Jews from the Papal States, allowing some to remain in Rome's ghettos and in Ancona for commercial reasons
1592-1605
Pope Clement VIII includes a ban on all Jewish books in the expanded Index of Forbidden Books
1826
Pope Leo XII decrees that Jews are to be confined to ghettos and their property is to be confiscated
1858
Edgardo Mortara, 6-year old son of a Jewish family in Bologna, is abducted by the papal police and brought to Rome. He had been secretly baptized five years earlier by a domestic servant who thought he was about to die. The parents try to get the boy back, and there is a universal outcry, but Pope Pius IX rejects all petitions submitted to him
1904
In an interview with Zionist leader Theodor Hertzl, Pope St. Pius X says: "I know, it is disagreeable to see the Turks in possession of our Holy Places. We simply have to put up with it. But to sanction the Jewish wish to occupy these sites, that we cannot do... The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people... If you go to Palestine and your people settle there, you will find us clergy and churches ready to baptize you all"
1919
Newly independent Poland passes a law making Sunday a compulsory day of rest in Poland. The law is intended to force Jews to observe the Christian sabbath in addition to their own
1921
Speaking for Pope Benedict XV, a Vatican spokesman informed representatives of the Zionist Movement htat they did not wish to assist "the Jewish race, which is permeated with a revolutionary and rebellious spirit" to gain control over the Holy Land
1925
At a conference of Catholic academicians in Innsbruck, Austria, Bishop Sigismund Waitz calls the Jews an "alien people" who had corrupted England, France, Italy, and especially America
1933
In a series of Advent sermons, Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich defends the Old Testament against Nazi attacks but emphasizes that it is not his intention to defend contemporary Jewry, saying that a distinction has to be drawn between Jews living before and after the crucifixion of Jesus
1933
In a pastoral letter on January 23, Bishop Johannes Maria Gföllner of Linz, Austria, declares that while the radical anti-Semitism preached by Nazism is completely incompatible with Christianity, it is the right and duty of Christians to fight and break the harmful influences of Jewry in all areas of modern cultural life. The Austrian episcopate condemns the letter in December for causing racial hatred and conflict
1933-1939
The general consensus among the Catholic papers in Poland is that Jewish influence should be reduced in all areas of life, that the Polish and Jewish communities should be separated as much as possible, and that the most desirable option is mass emigration of the Jews from Poland. St. Maximilian Kolbe is an active promoter of antisemitic literature
1935-1936
The Polish Catholic Church gives full support to a government policy encouraging Jewish emigration from Poland
1936
Cardinal August Hlond, the primate of Poland, issues a pastoral letter, stating: "I warn you against that ethical attitude that is fundamentally and uncompromisingly anti-Jewish. It is contradictory to Catholic ethics. It is permissible to love your nation more than others, but it is not permissible to hate anyone. Not even the Jews... You should close yourselves to the harmful influence of Jewry... But you may not attack Jews, beat them, hurt them, slander them. In a Jew you should also respect and love a human being and your neighbor"
1937
Austrian bishop Alois Hudal publishes a book defending Nazi racial ideology, supporting laws preventing a flood of Jewish immigrants, and criticizing the "Jewish" press for playing off Austrians against Germans. His book receives the support of Archbishop (later Cardinal) Theodor Innitzer of Vienna
1938
In a speech before Belgian pilgrims, Pope Pius XI denounces antisemitism and says: "Spiritually we are all Semites." His comments are reported in various newspapers but not in the Vatican's L'Osservatore Romano
1939
Josef Tiso, a Catholic priest with a doctorate in theology, became president of independent Slovakia. An extremist hater of Jews, he allied Slovakia with Nazi Germany and, with strong objections from the Vatican, deported most Slovakian Jews to their deaths in the camps. He declared: "It is a Christian action to expel the Jews, because it is for the good of the people, which is thus getting rid of its pests." Monsignor Tiso was executed after the war as a war criminal
1941-1945
The "Final Solution" takes place in Nazi-occupied Europe. This Holocaust, the killing of some six million Jews, "happened in the 'heartland' of Western Christian Europe... It happened with the passive acquiescence or active collaboration of most European Christians, and no decisive protest from church leadership, Catholic or protestant" (Rosemary Radford Ruether)
1941
In Croatia, Bishop Ivan Saric of Sarajevo appropriates Jewish property for his own use. His diocesan newspaper declares that "Jewish greed increases. The Jews have led Europe and the world towards disaster, moral and economic disaster. Their appetite grows till only domination of the whole world will satisfy it." Bishop Aksamovic of Djakovic teaches that "today it is the sacred duty of every citizen to prove his Aryan origins." Meanwhile, Archbishop Aloys Stepinac of Zagreb preaches in a sermon that "it is forbidden to exterminate Gypsies and Jews because they are said to belong to an inferior race"
1941
Provost Bernard Lichtenberg of Berlin's St. Hedwig Cathedral publicly declares that he will include Jews in his daily prayers. On October 23 he is arrested and sent to Dauchau, but dies on the way
1941
The German Bishops' Conference issues a pastoral letter secretly distributed and read from all pulpits. It outlines in detail the Nazi assault on the Catholic Church, but makes no mention of the Jews
1941
In Operational Situation Report USSR No. 54, the German Einsatzgruppen A reports from Kaunas, Lithuania: "The attitude of the Church regarding the Jewish question is, in general, clear. In addition, Bishop Brisgys has forbidden all clergymen to help Jews in any form whatsoever. He rejected several Jewish delegations who approached him personally and asked for his intervention with the German authorities. In the future he will not meet with any Jews at all"
1942
The French Assembly of Cardinals and Archbishops sends a letter to Marshal Pétain, head of the Vichy government, protesting against the mass arrests and cruel treatment of the French Jews
1942
Protest against the persecution of Dutch Jews is read from the pulpit of all churches in Holland
1942
In August and September, messages to be read out in their churches protesting the deportation of Jews from France are written by Archbishop Saliège of Toulouse, Bishop Théas of Montauban, Bishop Delay of Marseilles, Cardinal Gerlier of Lyon, Bishop Vanstenbergher of Bayonne, and Archbishop Moussaron of Albi
1942
Great Britain, the Polish Government-in-exile, Brazil, the United States, and Uruguay press Pope Pius XII to condemn the Nazi treatment of Jews. The Pope responds to this international appeal with his Christmas radio address, but does not specifically mention the Jews
1942-1945
Cardinal Adolf Bertram, Archbishop of Breslau and head of the German Bishops' Conference, opposes all public protest against the deportation and massacre of the Jews. He maintains a cordial relationship with Hitler, and in May 1945 he orders requiem masses for Hitler be offered in all his parishes
1943
At their annual meeting in Fulda, the German Catholic bishops debate whether to speak out about the Holocaust and confront Hitler with a direct accusation. They decide not to do so
1943
Slovakia's Catholic Bishops protest the deportation of Jews in a pastoral letter read in Latin from the pulpits. Many priests refuse to read it or insert their own negative comments
1945
Addressing the College of Cardinals after the end of the European war, Pope Pius XII speaks of the hundreds of priests and religious who died in Nazi concentration camps, but makes no mention of the Jews
1965
The Second Vatican Council issues its Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions: "True, authorities of the Jews and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be blamed upon all the Jews then living, without distinction, nor upon the Jews of today... The Jews should not be presented as repudiated or cursed by God... The Church decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone"
1967
The Catholic bishops in the United States establish an Office on Catholic-Jewish Relations, and promptly issues Guidelines for Catholic-Jewish Relations
1967
In an interview with a Los Angeles rabbi, Cardinal Frings of Cologne, Germany, states that the Jews had been economically too powerful in the 1920s, and he doubts if six million Jews had actually been killed under Hitler
1974
The Vatican Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews issues its Guidelines for Catholic-Jewish Relations: "The spiritual ties and historical relations between the Church and Judaism are enough to condemn, as contrary to the spirit of Christianity, all forms of anti-Semitism and discrimination"
1979
Pope John Paul II visits Auschwitz and refers to the Holocaust as "the Golgotha of our century"
1980
The German Bishops Conference declares: "A serious dialogue of reciprocal love and understanding must replace the 'anti-Semitism' which, to some extent, still lives on in Christians. The spiritual bonds and historical statements that bind the Church and Judaism condemn any form of anti-Semitism as contradictory to the spirit of Christianity"
1984
The National Conference of Brazilian Bishops declares: "All forms of anti-Semitism must be condemned. Every unfavorable word and expression must be erased from Christian speech. All campaigns of physical or moral violence must cease. The Jew must not be considered a deicide people"
1985
The Vatican Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews issues the document Notes on the Correct Way to Present the Jews and Judaism in Preaching and Catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church: "Our two traditions are so related that they cannot ignore each other. Mutual knowledge must be encouraged at every level. There is evident in particular a painful ignorance of the history and traditions of Judaism, of which only negative aspects and often caricature seem to form part of the stock ideas of many Christians"
1987
Pope John Paul II holds a controversial Vatican meeting with Kurt Waldheim, President of Austria. The meeting causes an international uproar because of Waldheim's reputation as a willing bureaucratic accomplice under the Nazis
1988
The Pontifical Commission "Justice and Peace" issues a document on racism: "Amongst the manifestations of systematic racial distrust, specific mention must once again be made of anti-Semitism. If anti-Semitism has been the most tragic form that racist ideology has assumed in our century, with the horrors of the Jewish 'Holocaust,' it has unfortunately not yet entirely disappeared"
1989
Reacting to Jewish efforts to remove a Carmelite convent established at Auschwitz, Cardinal Glemp, the Primate of Poland, says in an August homily: "Dear Jews, do not talk with us from the position of a nation raised beyond all others and do not dictate terms that are impossible to fulfill. Don't you see, esteemed Jews, that openly opposing the Carmelite nuns hurts the feelings of all Poles and violates our hard-won sovereignty. Your power is in the mass media, at your immediate disposal in many countries. Do not use it to spread anti-Polonism." The convent was eventually removed.
1993
The Holy See establishes diplomatic relations with the State of Israel
1994
Pope John Paul II hosts a concert at the Vatican to commemorate the Holocaust. It is the first time that the Chief Rabbi of Rome is invited to co-officiate at a public function in the Vatican; the first time a Jewish cantor sings at the Vatican; the first time the Vatican choir sings a Hebrew text in performance
1994-1995
Bishops in Hungary, Germany, Poland, Netherlands, and the United States issue documents condemning antisemitism on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Holocaust
1997
The French Catholic Bishops issue a Declaration of Repentance: "The end result is that the attempt to exterminate the Jewish people, instead of being perceived as a central question in human and spiritual terms, remained a secondary consideration. In the face of so great and utter a tragedy, too many of the Church's pastors committed an offense, by their silence, against the Church itself and its mission. Today we confess that such a silence was a sin. In so doing, we recognize that the Church of France failed in her mission as teacher of consciences"
1997
The Swiss Catholic Bishops' Conference issue a document on the role of Switzerland during the Second World War: "For centuries, Christians and ecclesiastical teachings were guilty of persecuting and marginalizing Jews, thus giving rise to antisemitic sentiments... It is in reference to these past acts of churches for which we proclaim ourselves culpable and ask pardon of the descendants of the victims"
1998
The Vatican Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews issues the document We Remember: A Reflection on the 'Shoah': "We wish to turn awareness of past sins into a firm resolve to build a new future in which there will be no more anti-Judaism among Christians or anti-Christian sentiment among Jews, but rather a shared mutual respect as befits those who adore the one Creator and Lord and have a common father in faith, Abraham"
1998
The Italian Bishops address a letter to the Jewish community of Italy, expressing the "hope that the maleficent plant of antisemitism will be extinguished forever from history, beginning with our cultural and linguistic habits"
2000
Pope John Paul II visits Israel. He pays tribute to the victims of the Holocaust at Yad Vashem (the Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority), and he leaves the following prayer between the ancient stones of the Western Wall in Jerusalem:

God of our fathers, you chose Abraham and his descendants to bring your Name to the Nations: we are deeply saddened by the behavior of those who in the course of history have caused these children of yours to suffer, and asking your forgiveness we wish to commit ourselves to genuine brotherhood with the people of the Covenant

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 10:26 AM

this is why you're trying so hard.

that the protocols are a hoax is an obvious hoax, otherwise why are they being implemented?

they were written by the same mafia you and your guru phelps are desperately trying to protect.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/pictures/rotschld.jpg

Phelps is one of the worst hoaxers around, shame we got yet another of his footsoldiers (Aronia) do they mass produce these bots in a factory in Israel somewhere? another Catholic hater

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 10:28 AM

icarus are you Roman Catholic by brith?
Are you Jewish or some kind of Zionist Christian?

Jews in the Vatican The Vatican is Roman Catholic; this we know, don't we? Well, how come then that even Popes are Jews? The late Pope John Paul II, for example was Jewish (http://www.illuminati-news.com/0/PopeJohnPaulWasJewish.htm), having a Jewish mother. And let us not forget that the first, original Pope, Peter, was of course Jewish [however, see the second paragraph beneath the List of Jewish Popes below for clarification]. Likewise, some other early Popes were from Jewish families as well, such as St. Zosimus (417-418); his father's name was Abram. Pope Evaristus (100-109) has also been mentioned as being Jewish, based upon the writings of Pope Pius V. [17 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#17)]
Here is a more detailed list of more Jewish Popes throughout history:
Pope No. 211: Callistus III (1455-1458) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 216: Alexander VI (1492-1503) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 217: Pius III (1503) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 219: Leo X (1513-1521) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 221: Clement VII (1523-1534) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)] (cousin of Leo X)
Pope No. 222: Paul III (1534-1549) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 227: St. Pius V (1566-1572) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 228: Gregory XIII (1572-1585) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 262: Pius XII (1939-1958) Jew [19 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#19)]
Pope No. 264: Paul VI (1963-1978) Jew [20 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#20)]
Pope No. 266: John Paul II (1978-2001 or 2005) Jew [21 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#21)]
Pope No. 268: ? (This would be the last pope in accordance to St. Malachy) [22 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#22)]
Among the cardinals of the Catholic Church today there is a converted Jew, Cardinal Lustiger, the archbishop of Paris. There have been numerous articles about him in the Jewish press over the years and all have somehow raised the possibility that he someday could be pope. [16 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#16)]
Despite the fact there was no such office or word as "pope" until about the fourth century and that Peter was neither Roman Catholic nor pope, commencing with Peter, the first ten popes were "Jews" of some description (Philip I by William Thomas Walsh, Shead & Ward London, 1938).

Some "Jewish" popes previous to Malachy's prophecy include, Zephyrin (199-217), Siricus (384-399), Hormidas (514-523), and Analdet II (1130-1138). (Gert Haendler: Kirchengeschichte, Evangelische Verlagsanstalt Berlin, 1980).

Conclusively, the "New Testament" of the Bible was authored and written by Jews. [23 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#23)]

by Wes Penre of illuminati news

runciter

04-11-2009, 10:31 AM

icarus are you Roman Catholic by brith?

jewish historian ariel toaff wrote a book about ritual murder

Moreover, this Trento crime was not an exception: Toaff discovered many cases of such bloody sacrifices connected with the mutilation of children, outpouring of blood and its baking in Matzo (unleavened bread) spanning five hundred years of European history. Blood, this magic drink, was a popular medicine of the time, and of any time: Herod tried to keep young bathing in blood of babies, alchemists used blood to turn lead into gold. Jewish wizards meddled in magic and used it as much as anybody. There was a thriving market in such delicacies as blood, powder made of blood and bloody matzo. Jewish vendors sold it accompanied with rabbinic letters of authorization; the highest value was blood of a goy katan, a gentile child, much more usual was blood of circumcision. Such blood sacrifices were "instinctive, visceral, virulent actions and reactions, in which innocent and unknowing children became victims of the love of God and of vengeance," Toaff wrote in the book's preface. "Their blood bathed the altars of a God who, it was believed, needed to be guided, sometimes impatiently pushed to protect and to punish."

This somewhat cryptic remark can be understood by reading Israeli professor Israel Yuval’s book Two Nations in Thy Womb. Yuval explained that blood libations were necessary (in the eyes of Jewish magicians) to bring forth Divine Vengeance upon the Goyim. He also quotes an irrefutable (i.e. not denied by Jews) instance of blood sacrifice by a Jew. (Read about it in my article Bloodcurdling Libel.) Toaff improved upon Yuval by stressing the ordinary magic use of blood by Jews in the Middle Ages, and by allowing for the anti-Christian element: crucifixion of victims and the cursing of Christ and Virgin. Here his book is supported by (admittedly, more timid) Reckless Rites: Purim and the Legacy of Jewish Violence by Elliott Horowitz. Horowitz tells his reader of strange rituals: flagellation of the Virgin, destruction of crucifixes and the beating up and killing Christians.

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Eng11.htm

runciter

04-11-2009, 10:35 AM

this lovely tradition is still alive and well, it seems

THE OPRAH INTERVIEW

Polin told Oprah that she witnessed babies sacrificed and consumed for the "power" this gave. These babies are bred within the extended family for this purpose. She said she was raped several times, and elsewhere says she had five abortions due to intercourse with her father.

Polin said her family was "extremely involved" in these practices. Her mother is "on the human relations commission of the town that she lives in, and she's an upstanding citizen. Nobody would suspect her. Nobody would suspect anybody involved in it. There's police officers involved in it. There's, you know, doctors, lawyers..."

"I mean, to the outside world, everything we did was proper and right, and then there were the nights that things changed, that things just got turned around. What was wrong was right, and what was right was wrong. That's what helps to create some of them to develop MPD."

Polin's therapist, Tina Grossman was on the show but edited out of the YouTube. She told Oprah that she had treated over 40 survivors from many states and Canada. They have never met each other yet say the "identical same things."

Ms. GROSSMAN: They are describing identical rituals, just the same as, since I'm Jewish, you could go to New York or California and describe a seder in one state or another and, as a Jew, you would recognize it. This is the belief system in evil and the power that evil gives you, and so it has these certain rituals, so they are very similar with all of the survivors.

OPRAH: See, but I am very surprised because the Jewish faith is the Jewish faith. and worshipping the devil is not a part of the Jewish faith. I mean, Jewish people do not worship the devil.

Ms. GROSSMAN: But before there was Christ and before there was a system of one God, there was Paganism- and it still exists in the world, and in many cultures, you still find the belief that there is strength and power in the actual consumption of human flesh or animal flesh.

http://www.henrymakow.com/incest_survivor_lifted_veil_on.html

runciter

04-11-2009, 10:42 AM

Phelps is one of the worst hoaxers around, shame we got yet another of his footsoliders (Aronia) another Catholic hater

some people may have good reasons to hate the church, but how can anyone defend zionist mass murderers? :confused:

soleil

04-11-2009, 10:52 AM

I have an inconvenient question. The list of Jewish expulsions and anti-Jewish edicts in Roman Catholic lands shows that rightly or wrongly, Jews have not been very popular. Similar lists could be compiled for Orthodox and Protestant countries and indeed for the pagan nations of antiquity.

With this popularity level of Jews thus considered in many different countries, why then did the Tsars feel the need to forge the protocols? Is it therefore just a coincidence that the imperial régime was replaced by another in which Jews were overly represented?

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 10:58 AM

aronia

04-11-2009, 12:09 PM

Are you Jewish or some kind of Zionist Christian?

Jews in the Vatican The Vatican is Roman Catholic; this we know, don't we? Well, how come then that even Popes are Jews? The late Pope John Paul II, for example was Jewish (http://www.illuminati-news.com/0/PopeJohnPaulWasJewish.htm), having a Jewish mother. And let us not forget that the first, original Pope, Peter, was of course Jewish [however, see the second paragraph beneath the List of Jewish Popes below for clarification]. Likewise, some other early Popes were from Jewish families as well, such as St. Zosimus (417-418); his father's name was Abram. Pope Evaristus (100-109) has also been mentioned as being Jewish, based upon the writings of Pope Pius V. [17 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#17)]
Here is a more detailed list of more Jewish Popes throughout history:
Pope No. 211: Callistus III (1455-1458) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 216: Alexander VI (1492-1503) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 217: Pius III (1503) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 219: Leo X (1513-1521) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 221: Clement VII (1523-1534) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)] (cousin of Leo X)
Pope No. 222: Paul III (1534-1549) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 227: St. Pius V (1566-1572) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 228: Gregory XIII (1572-1585) Jew [18 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#18)]
Pope No. 262: Pius XII (1939-1958) Jew [19 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#19)]
Pope No. 264: Paul VI (1963-1978) Jew [20 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#20)]
Pope No. 266: John Paul II (1978-2001 or 2005) Jew [21 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#21)]
Pope No. 268: ? (This would be the last pope in accordance to St. Malachy) [22 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#22)]
Among the cardinals of the Catholic Church today there is a converted Jew, Cardinal Lustiger, the archbishop of Paris. There have been numerous articles about him in the Jewish press over the years and all have somehow raised the possibility that he someday could be pope. [16 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#16)]
Despite the fact there was no such office or word as "pope" until about the fourth century and that Peter was neither Roman Catholic nor pope, commencing with Peter, the first ten popes were "Jews" of some description (Philip I by William Thomas Walsh, Shead & Ward London, 1938).

Some "Jewish" popes previous to Malachy's prophecy include, Zephyrin (199-217), Siricus (384-399), Hormidas (514-523), and Analdet II (1130-1138). (Gert Haendler: Kirchengeschichte, Evangelische Verlagsanstalt Berlin, 1980).

Conclusively, the "New Testament" of the Bible was authored and written by Jews. [23 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#23)]

by Wes Penre of illuminati news

Nope I`m not Jewish or even a Christian zionist.

I don`t even have sympathy for Israel.

I `m a white Protestant that like Eric`s work also i digg deep myself and every time i find Rome and the jesuit`s as the end of my research.

The jewish State is not even an independent state but a colony of the the Popes CFR.

The Palestinan elite also work for Rome.

runciter

04-11-2009, 12:44 PM

Nope I`m not Jewish or even a Christian zionist.

I don`t even have sympathy for Israel.

I `m a white Protestant that like Eric`s work also i digg deep myself and every time i find Rome and the jesuit`s as the end of my research.

The jewish State is not even an independent state but a colony of the the Popes CFR.

The Palestinan elite also work for Rome.

you just have to change rome with rothschild, the vatican is under their control since world war 2.

meksar

04-11-2009, 12:45 PM

Are people still pushing all of this its the Jesuits nonsense?, the Jesuits was actually created by Crypto Jews and most aspects of religion are a Jewish scam to create mental and emotional slaves. The protocols of Zion are not a fraud and the Zionist network will say any old crap to stop themselves from being exposed and resisted. Even in Islamic nations the influential trouble makers are all Crypto Jews who justify demonetization of Muslims, while Zionist Jews still remain the most protected and unquestioned criminals walking the face of the earth.

e7304

04-11-2009, 12:51 PM

Nope I`m not Jewish or even a Christian zionist.

I don`t even have sympathy for Israel.

I `m a white Protestant that like Eric`s work also i digg deep myself and every time i find Rome and the jesuit`s as the end of my research.

The jewish State is not even an independent state but a colony of the the Popes CFR.

The Palestinan elite also work for Rome.

Mr Phelps "exposed" himself a while ago but he does have his followers. Hollywoods obsessions with the Jesuits should make people think.

But does it?

...the Palestinian elite work for Rome??......more like Tel Aviv.

marpat

04-11-2009, 12:54 PM

jewish historian ariel toaff wrote a book about ritual murder

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Eng11.htm

What I find odd is that you use a quote like that claiming jews are eating the blood of children yet the laws of the Hewbrews as written down in the old testament and Torah actually forbid them to eat blood. Can you explain why they would do it if they own law prohibits them doing it? if they are not obeying their own laws then can you truly call them jews?

runciter

04-11-2009, 12:59 PM

What I find odd is that you use a quote like that claiming jews are eating the blood of children yet the laws of the Hewbrews as written down in the old testament and Torah actually forbid them to eat blood. Can you explain why they would do it if they own law prohibits them doing it? if they are not obeying their own laws then can you truly call them jews?

jews don't follow the torah (pentateuch), it is a myth, they follow the rules created by their corrupt priesthood.

marpat

04-11-2009, 01:49 PM

jews don't follow the torah (pentateuch), it is a myth, they follow the rules created by their corrupt priesthood.

But their priests rules comes from the torah dont they? have you any proof that they dont follow it?

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 01:54 PM

But their priests rules comes from the torah dont they? have you any proof that they dont follow it?
The Talmud/OT Mosaic laws is like what the Koran/Hadiths/Suras of Islam are.

It's religion and courts of laws often governments in one system.

Jews have Beth din courts (spelling) while Islam has Sharia courts, the priesthoods are basically judges when they apply the laws.

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 01:58 PM

This is why democracy and not basing a countrys laws on ancient religious laws allows people more freedom, and not to be dicated to by Priesthood.

Example - How many Catholics give a toss about what the Pope or priests say compared to the majority of Muslims and Jews. Take Halal and Kosher meat, or the state of Israel and Palestine, just two examples these people are obssessed over.

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 02:09 PM

Nope I`m not Jewish or even a Christian zionist.
Okay was gonna say your Protestant it figures.

I don`t even have sympathy for Israel.

I `m a white Protestant that like Eric`s work also i digg deep myself and every time i find Rome and the jesuit`s as the end of my research.

Phelps is a zionist who claims only racial Jews should live in Israel (it's a crackpot idea) the Jesuits where just a militant order arm of the Vatican fighting against other miltant orders of other sects and religions along time ago, today the Jesuits are no big players in anything of importance.
The jewish State is not even an independent state but a colony of the the Popes CFR.

CFR is run mostly by Jews/Zionists. Not the Pope. Just look at all the Jewish names in the CFR, then deny it? It's not possible.
The Palestinan elite also work for Rome.
Nah, Muslims trashed Rome and the vatican centuries ago, and also took over Constantinople (which is now called Istanbul) which was like the second Vatican, they turned the Churches into Mosques, now Turkey is almost 100% Muslim.

You really think the Muslims have changed tactics and joined the other side, it's ridiculous.

It was the Catholics the likes of the Knights of Malta and Columbus who kicked the Muslim invaders out of Europe, after centuries of Islamic invasions and take over of huge parts of land.

The Ottoman Empire Islamic was also waring with the Christiaons of Europe for centuries.

Heed what I say it is true not a conspiracy, it's real history.

marpat

04-11-2009, 02:18 PM

The Talmud/OT Mosaic laws is like what the Koran/Hadiths/Suras of Islam are.

It's religion and courts of laws often governments in one system.

Jews have Beth din courts (spelling) while Islam has Sharia courts, the priesthoods are basically judges when they apply the laws.

The way I see it the Talmud is not the law as such but how it is applied. I guess the biblical laws do not cover every situation and that such gaps are filed in with man made laws books, hence the Talmud. Therefor for jews to be eating the blood of children would be against the essence of their law.

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 03:02 PM

655321

04-11-2009, 03:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yYvf0p1tKg

rodin

04-11-2009, 03:14 PM

Notice how any persecution of catholics (which there has been much) is blatantly ignored.
Let's face it the Popes etc over the years bang on about persecuted jews yet never mention the persecution and mass murder of their own Catholic flocks.

Odd unless....

http://www.fourthbranchofamerica.com/images/Pope_John_Paul_II_r.jpg

http://www.judaica-mall.com/kippot.htm

marpat

04-11-2009, 03:16 PM

That's the jist of it yes.
Of course it's not all Jews who do the blood driniking. I remember reading that some of it is an oral law which is passed on to certain people, although it may have been written down in more recent times and even in code somewhere amongst the vast amount of Judaic texts which I also read numbers over 50 books? Don't quote me on this, it's something I've not looked into for some time.

The oral teachings form the body of kaballah, which comes from the word qbl, from mouth to ear.

The way I see it, if they are eating blood then they are not following jewish law and are therefore not jewish.

rodin

04-11-2009, 03:53 PM

When did Rothschild start running the Vatican account?

N M Rothschild & Sons Limited Get 50 expert sample ... family's financial clout even extended to the Vatican, which turned to the Rothschilds for a loan in 1830

From their own site

meksar

04-11-2009, 03:57 PM

Freemasonry is very Babylonian,Egyptian and particularly Jewish . Judaism evolved from the ancient Egyptian religion. the star of David is not a Judaic symbol. it's far more ancient. Some of this stuff on the Vatican/Jesuits is correct but they are not more powerful than the Rothschilds.People like Phelps could have connected things much better if he himself did not have a agenda. Even the Zionists themselves are puppets of the Annunaki(Fallen Angels) and i believe they are puppets of the most sinister force imaginable.

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 04:34 PM

the star of David is not a Judaic symbol. it's far more ancient. .

I have heard this, although they did adopt it for themselves, maybe because it's related to their roots and culture from a earlier religion before Judaism

The pentagram may have been the Original Solomon's seal, or the true sign of Judaism. Hence Satanism (they also hate Christ) The blood libel has parallels with some satanic masses, both curse Christ and Christians.

Pentagram the red star symbol of Communism and Islam both would not exist without Jews. The Persian Jew who translated/written the Koran for the illiterate Muhammad.

runciter

04-11-2009, 04:54 PM

But their priests rules comes from the torah dont they? have you any proof that they dont follow it?

according to israel shahak

There is yet another misconception about Judaism which is particularly common among Christians, or people heavily influenced by Christian tradition and culture. This is the misleading idea that Judaism is a 'biblical religion'; that the Old Testament has in Judaism the same central place and legal authority which the Bible has for Protestant or even Catholic Christianity.

Again, this is connected with the question of interpretation. We have seen that in matters of belief there is great latitude. Exactly the opposite holds with respect to the legal interpretation of sacred texts. Here the interpretation is rigidly fixed - but by the Talmud rather than by the Bible itself. Many, perhaps most, biblical verses prescribing religious acts and obligations are 'understood' by classical Judaism, and by present-day Orthodoxy, in a sense which is quite distinct from, or even contrary to, their literal meaning as understood by Christian or other readers of the Old Testament, who only see the plain text. The same division exists at present in Israel between those educated in Jewish religious schools and those educated in 'secular' Hebrew schools, where on the whole the plain meaning of the Old Testament is taught.

(from "jewish history, jewish religion")

marpat

04-11-2009, 04:58 PM

I have heard this, although they did adopt it for themselves, maybe because it's related to their roots and culture from a earlier religion before Judaism

The pentagram may have been the Original Solomon's seal, or the true sign of Judaism. Hence Satanism (they also hate Christ) The blood libel has parallels with some satanic masses, both curse Christ and Christians.

Pentagram the red star symbol of Communism and Islam both would not exist without Jews. The Persian Jew who translated/written the Koran for the illiterate Muhammad.

Who also hates christ? didn't you know that there are messianic jews who believe jesus was their messiah? they are treated very badly in Israel. You might find that christian have changed the identity of satan from the adversary and tester of souls to the scapegoat.

To my mind the image of Islam is the crescent and not the star.

runciter

04-11-2009, 05:04 PM

The way I see it the Talmud is not the law as such but how it is applied. I guess the biblical laws do not cover every situation and that such gaps are filed in with man made laws books, hence the Talmud. Therefor for jews to be eating the blood of children would be against the essence of their law.

from ariel toaff's "bloody passover"

Perhaps the solution to the Biblical and rabbinical contradiction between the consumption of blood and the custom -- established among the Ashkenazi Jews -- of consuming it on the most varied occasions, may be identified in a late response of Jacob Reischer of Prague (1670-1734), head of the yeshivah of Ansbach in Bavaria and later active at Worms and Metz (45). The ritualistic text contains testimonies to a practice widespread over time immemorial among the Jews of the German community, and considered de facto permissible, notwithstanding the fact that it obviously contradicted the dictates of the Talmud. Being a custom now generalized among the Jews (minhagh Israel), it came, over time, to assume the same strictness as a ritual standard. The inquiry and the response of the Reischer referred to the consumption of the blood of the stambecco (Bocksblut), for medicinal use, even in cases in which the patient was not in danger of his life.

"INQUIRY: What is the basis for the fact that most Jews traditionally permit the consumption and drinking of the coagulated and dried blood of the ibex [a long-horned Alpine mountain goat], known as Bocksblut and dried in the sun, even in the event that it may be consumed by patients whose lives are not in peril, such as people suffering from epilepsy, when it is one of the internal organs of the body which causes pain?

RESPONSE: The legality of this custom must be upheld because it is long-established. This medication is obviously permissible, because clearly, when a custom becomes widespread among the Jews (minhagh Israel), it must be considered to be on the level of the Torah itself. The ritual motive of the permission is based, in my view, on the fact that (the blood) is dried to the point that it is transformed into a piece of wood and contains no moisture. It is not, therefore, prohibited in any way."

The authoritative German rabbi sought to uphold the ritual lawfulness of dried blood totally without any liquid component, stating that, in this manner, the blood must be considered to have lost any alimentary connotations. But obviously, the central justification of his argument remained the notion that a custom established over time in the community of Israel, even if in contrast with the norms, was to be considered perfectly authorized and permissible.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/cwporter/toaff6.htm

rodin

04-11-2009, 05:16 PM

eternal_spirit

04-11-2009, 05:28 PM

Who also hates christ? didn't you know that there are messianic jews who believe jesus was their messiah? Who are they though? Which sect? because most Messianic Judaic sects do not view Christ as their Messiah (runciter may know?) they are treated very badly in Israel. maybe the Karites sect (spelling?)

You might find that christian have changed the identity of satan from the adversary and tester of souls to the scapegoat. Jesus was also a scapegoat for man's sins was he not, and his crucifixion took the place of human and animal sacrifice (as the last sacrifice) because man had sacrificed his own son's to Gods before the crucifixion. God allowed the sacrifice of his own son Jesus in return. Human sin maybe partly related to sacrifice, with the sacrifice of Christ helps to wash away the sins of man.

Christians done away with sacrifice, circumcision and most of the 613 Judaic Mosaic OT laws.

Halal and Kosher sacrifice and isn't there a ritual where Muslims throw a goat or sheep from a hill top? Which is the scapegoat offering to appease God and wash away their sins.

To my mind the image of Islam is the crescent and not the star.That's a common one although have a look on google image etc there's alot of variation
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Islam-symbol.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Islam_symbol_green_gradation2.svg/500px-Islam_symbol_green_gradation2.svg.png

http://www.blog.churchwebstop.com/wp-images/islam_symbol.jpg

Some theories
I see a partial eclipse of the sun by the moon symbolic of the black flag Islam? The star Venus = Green another flag they use?
Male and female sun and moon.

runciter

04-11-2009, 05:42 PM

http://www.harif.org/_images/donmeh.jpg

http://www.appliedlanguage.com/flags_of_the_world/large_flag_of_turkey.gif

http://eb173.com/db5/00481/eb173.com/_uimages/eclipse4-DiamondRingEffect.JPG

runciter

04-11-2009, 05:52 PM

When did Rothschild start running the Vatican account?

From their own site

pius xii was probably the first pope they directly controlled

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GzQnzaF4k-o/SQtSK2nQd3I/AAAAAAAAE78/y4YIUjy-NSw/s400/pius+12.jpg

On the holiest of Jewish holidays, Yom Kippur, in the autumn of 1931, Guy de Rothschild walked through the massive street gate at 19 Rue Laffitte, for the first time as an adult on adult business. The day was chosen carefully, what others might perceive as the beginning of a banking career, to a Rothschild it was entering into a priesthood. At twenty-two, Guy was assigned letters to write. One of his correspondents was a Cardinal Pacelli, future Pope Pius XII, then in charge of Holy office finances, and who kept a small account at MM. de Rothschild Freres.

In the book, Hitler’s Pope, John Cornwall’s chronicles the life of Eugenio Pacelli, Pope Pius XII. Pacellli was arguably the most dangerous churchman in modern history. As Pontiff during World War II, not only did he fail to speak out against Hitler’s Final Solution, but he personally made the Final Solution possible!

In the first decade of the twentieth century, Pacelli was a brilliant Vatican lawyer who helped shape a new ideology of unprecedented papal power. As papal nuncio in Munich and Berlin in the 1920’s, he used cunning and moral blackmail to impose Rome’s power on Germany. In 1933, he negotiated a treaty with Hitler, the Reich Concordat, which ensured that the Nazis would rise unopposed by the most powerful Catholic community in the world-sealing, by Hitler’s own admission, the fate of the Jews in Europe.

How could Eugenio Pacelli possibly have gotten away with such cunning, especially since we know that he was in personal contact with the Rothschilds. Guy de Rothschild was his pen pal eight years before he became Pope. But wait... if Pacelli was Hitler’s Pope, and Hitler was a Rothschild... then he was Rothschild’s Pope!

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_rothschild05.htm

runciter

04-11-2009, 05:54 PM

more from the same article

How did Eugenio Pacelli become Rothschild’s Pope?

Eugenio Pacelli was described routinely, during his pontificate and after his death, as a member of the Black Nobility. The Black Nobility were a small group of aristocratic families of Rome who had stood by the popes following the seizure of their dominions in the bitter struggle for the creation of the nation-state of Italy... Pacelli’s father and grandfather before him owed their distinction to membership of the caste of lay Vatican lawyers in the service of the papacy.

Pacelli’s immediate family association with the Holy See dates from 1819, when his grandfather, Marcantonio Pacelli, arrived in the Eternal City to study canon law, or Church law, as a protégé of a clerical uncle, Monsignor Prospero Caterini. By 1834 Marcantonio had become an advocate in the Tribunal of the Sacred Rota, an ecclesiastical court involved in such activities as marriage annulments. While raising ten children (his second child being Eugenio’s father, Filippo, born in 1837), Marcantonio became a key official in the service of Pius IX, popularly known as Pio Nono.

The quick tempered, charismatic, and epileptic Pio Nono (Giovanni Maria Mastai-Ferretti), crowned in 1846, was convinced, as had been his predecessors from time immemorial, that the papal territories forming the midriff of the Italian peninsula ensured the independence of the successors to St. Peter. If the Supreme Pontiff were a mere inhabitant of a "foreign" country, how could he claim to be free of local influence? Three years after his coronation, it looked as if Pio Nono had ignominiously lost his sovereignty over the Eternal City to a republican mob.

On November 15, 1849, Count Pellegrino Rossi, a lay government minister of the papal states, famous for his biting sarcasm, approached the Palazzo della Cancelleria in Rome and greeted a sullen waiting crowd with a contemptuous smile. As he was about to enter the building, a man leapt forward and stabbed him fatally in the neck. The next day, the Pope’s Quirinal summer palace above the city was sacked, and Pio Nono, disguised in a priest’s simple cassock and a pair of large spectacles, fled to the seaside fortress of Gaeta within the safety of the neighboring kingdom of Naples.

He took with him Marcantonio Pacelli as his legal and political adviser. From this fastness, Pio Nono hurled denunciations against the "outrageous treason of democracy" and threatened prospective voters with excommunication. Only with the help of French bayonets, and a loan from the Rothschild’s, did Pio Nono contrive to return to the Vatican a year later to resume a despised reign over the city of Rome and what was left of the papal territories.

From this we see that the Vatican owed it’s existence to the Rothschild’s from this point on.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_rothschild05.htm

marpat

04-11-2009, 06:31 PM

from ariel toaff's "bloody passover"

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/cwporter/toaff6.htm

So what you have is basically a perversion of the law in the torah. Blood is blood no matter if it dry or not. Why should it matter if it was dry or liquid? as God is quoted in the bible 'the blood is the life', he does not say liquid blood!!!

This reminds me of something I read recently where a priest in Peru wanted to ban catholic worshippers brining skulls to mass. They were offering things to the skull and believed they held magical power. It would seem that there are various groups of people in the world who may belong to a religion but who carry out acts that are completly opposed to the religion they belong to.

The documents posted by runciter cold be an example of this. Just because a certain group of jews may be doing such a things or it finds acceptance within certain sects this does not mean that others within that religion find it normal or in any way acceptable. Like the catholics I mention above, they accpeted that it wa normal to take these skulls to a mass but to a catholic in Europe it would be abhorrent and totally wrong, even though they have the same religion.

With this in view it could be seen that people use such documents to demonise or degrade a religion as a whole by claming such things are acceptable across the entire spectrum of that religion, or promoting the idea that they are all up to it.

rodin

04-11-2009, 06:41 PM

pius xii was probably the first pope they directly controlled

I have my suspicions

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Gregorythegreat.jpg/250px-Gregorythegreat.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_I

Not all infestations were permanent maybe

The above gets big billing on Wikipedia 'pope' if U get my drift

aronia

04-11-2009, 06:47 PM

Okay was gonna say your Protestant it figures.

Phelps is a zionist who claims only racial Jews should live in Israel (it's a crackpot idea) the Jesuits where just a militant order arm of the Vatican fighting against other miltant orders of other sects and religions along time ago, today the Jesuits are no big players in anything of importance.

CFR is run mostly by Jews/Zionists. Not the Pope. Just look at all the Jewish names in the CFR, then deny it? It's not possible.

Nah, Muslims trashed Rome and the vatican centuries ago, and also took over Constantinople (which is now called Istanbul) which was like the second Vatican, they turned the Churches into Mosques, now Turkey is almost 100% Muslim.

You really think the Muslims have changed tactics and joined the other side, it's ridiculous.

It was the Catholics the likes of the Knights of Malta and Columbus who kicked the Muslim invaders out of Europe, after centuries of Islamic invasions and take over of huge parts of land.

The Ottoman Empire Islamic was also waring with the Christiaons of Europe for centuries.

Heed what I say it is true not a conspiracy, it's real history.

If the jesuits don`t control the world why do the Black Nobility including the Merovingians fear and thus serve the high Jesuits ruling the Order?

If Jacob Rothschild control the world why is he only a papal knights of malta - he also go to public dinner partys. Noone that control the world go to public dinner partys.

Jerry E. Smidt once said the names of the elite families that is really controlling the world you don`t
know there names.

Lord Jacob Rothschild with his daughter Hannah

http://www.wireimage.com/GalleryListing.asp?navtyp=CLB&str=22968&styp=clbi&nm=Jacob%20Rothschild&nbc1=1

So how many you that clame Jacob Rothschild rule the world has are Roman Catholics by brith?

rodin

04-11-2009, 07:23 PM

If the jesuits don`t control the world why do the Black Nobility including the Merovingians fear and thus serve the high Jesuits ruling the Order?

If Jacob Rothschild control why is he only a papal knights of malta , he also go to public dinner partys - noone that control the world go to public dinner partys

Lord Jacob Rothschild with his daughter Hannah

http://www.wireimage.com/GalleryListing.asp?navtyp=CLB&str=22968&styp=clbi&nm=Jacob%20Rothschild&nbc1=1
.

If Jews don't control the world why are they running every fucking thing in sight? Why have they got all the positions and wealth

Fuck these Jesuits are leaving it late to take back what is theirs. Would you arm a bunch of bandidos to guard your gold stash?

runciter

04-11-2009, 08:14 PM

So what you have is basically a perversion of the law in the torah. Blood is blood no matter if it dry or not. Why should it matter if it was dry or liquid? as God is quoted in the bible 'the blood is the life', he does not say liquid blood!!!

This reminds me of something I read recently where a priest in Peru wanted to ban catholic worshippers brining skulls to mass. They were offering things to the skull and believed they held magical power. It would seem that there are various groups of people in the world who may belong to a religion but who carry out acts that are completly opposed to the religion they belong to.

The documents posted by runciter cold be an example of this. Just because a certain group of jews may be doing such a things or it finds acceptance within certain sects this does not mean that others within that religion find it normal or in any way acceptable. Like the catholics I mention above, they accpeted that it wa normal to take these skulls to a mass but to a catholic in Europe it would be abhorrent and totally wrong, even though they have the same religion.

With this in view it could be seen that people use such documents to demonise or degrade a religion as a whole by claming such things are acceptable across the entire spectrum of that religion, or promoting the idea that they are all up to it.

things you can find in the talmud

Non-Jews Have No Property Rights

The Talmud teaches in Baba Bathra, Folio 54b, that non-Jews have no property rights. Their possessions are "like unclaimed land in the desert." The passage appears on page 222 of the Soncino edition: "Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: The property of a heathen is on the same footing as desert land; whoever first occupies it acquires ownership."

Doesn’t the occupation of Palestine appear now in a new light?

Bestiality

The Talmud is obsessed with pornographic issues, touching some of them here is unavoidable. Moses commanded that if a woman have intercourse with a beast, both should be killed (Leviticus 20:16), and that a priest must not marry a harlot or woman who is profane (Lev. 21:7), the Talmud inverted that and teaches that "unnatural intercourse does not cause a woman to be forbidden to marry a High Priest," since then "you will find no woman eligible …" (See Exhibit 157, from the Yebamoth, Folios 59a-59b)

Then, the ruling of the rabbis is: "A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a priest — even a High Priest,” and “the result of such intercourse being regarded as a mere wound, and the opinion that does not regard an accidentally injured hymen as a disqualification does not regard such as intercourse either." (See Exhibit 158)

Babies

The Talmud enlightens us that baby boys may be used as subjects for sodomy by grown men (See Exhibit 54). The Pharisaic excuse is that until a child reaches sexual maturity, he or she does not rank as a person, hence Biblical laws against sodomy do not apply. Throughout the Talmud "nine years and one day" is the age of male maturity.

According to the Talmud, under "nine years and one day," the "first stage of intercourse" of a boy with the mother, or any grown woman, is harmless. Shammai – who contributed vast texts to the Talmud, lowers the age to eight years in some cases. (See Exhibit 82 from Sanhedrin 69b).

Not less shocking is the following text: "When a grown up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this — that is, less than three years old — it is as if one puts the finger into the eye — tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years." (See Exhibit 136, Kethuboth 11b).

http://www.roytov.com/articles/exhibit.htm

This is the Talmudic doctrine on babies. Sodomy and intercourse with them is the prerogative of the Talmudic man. What a contrast to Christ's teachings!

However, that’s not all. "A maiden aged three years and one day may be acquired in marriage by coition …" See Exhibit 55 (Sanhedrin 55b), Exhibit 81 (Sanhedrin 69a-69b), and others.

Baby girls of three can invoke sadistic punishments on those who have intercourse with them when they are "Niddahs" (menstruating), a physical impossibility (Sanhedrin 55b - Exhibit 55; Sanhedrin 69a - Exhibit 81).

This type of crimes – and all their imaginable variations – appear time and again. What type of men wrote these texts? What type of men are their followers?

Every single rabbi in the world studied this text in order to graduate. Would you hire one as a babysitter?

http://www.roytov.com/articles/talmud.htm

marpat

04-11-2009, 08:35 PM

things you can find in the talmud

http://www.roytov.com/articles/talmud.htm

And do you honestly think that many jews in the modern world would take such council? dont forget that the authority of jewish religion is in the Torah, not the talmud as such. The talmud was written by men to cover subjects that are not mentioned in the torah.

How can it be that non- jews could have no rights when the torah states 'thou shalt not oppress the stranger for thou wast a stranger in Egypt'?

Do you have access to a genuine copy of the talmud or are you taking this straight from another persons website? I want to look into this myself as it would appear that the talmud would be telling people to do what is agaisnt the laws of their own religion.

meksar

04-11-2009, 08:41 PM

http://www.henrymakow.com/marranos_--_the_original_crypt.html

marpat

04-11-2009, 08:45 PM

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm

Runciter, can you tell me what section in the book you quote from?

meksar

04-11-2009, 09:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsea-oXMxGI

meksar

04-11-2009, 09:12 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtbdqvRdc8g

meksar

04-11-2009, 09:19 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjsddSbpHwY&feature=related

marpat

04-11-2009, 09:29 PM

I found this and it seems to imply that what is being discussed is possible punishements, not what is actually the right course of action:

Kelhubath (11a-11b): "When a grown-up man has had intercourse with a little girl... It means this: When a grown up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [see footnote] three years old it is as if one puts the finger into the eye [again see footnote] tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl three years old."

This is probably the most insidious quote in the whole list.

The words are correctly quoted but completely out of context. All the words after [see footnote] actually appear in the footnote, and are therefore not part of the Talmud itself. This passage is a discussion of the penalties and consequences of adult-child sexual relations. The point being made is that if a man has sexual relations with a little girl, that is to be punished less harshly than if it is with an older child or an adult woman. Importantly, when she grows up, the child is to regarded as still having her virginity for legal and marriage purposes. She is not to suffer. In modern times it is quite shocking to think that the fine or reparation for raping an infant should be less than that for raping or seducing an older child, but that is the relative judgement that some of the rabbis made, and which is recorded in the Talmud. The following paragraphs continue to discuss this issue, and there does not seem to be a strong consensus on the issue. The important thing, though, is that whilst from a modern standpoint we (whether Christian, Jew or atheist) might deplore the medical and psychological ignorance which seems to inform this decision, it must be stressed that the Talmud in no sense condones such behaviour. The discussion is about how it should be punished.

rodin

04-11-2009, 09:35 PM

I found this and it seems to imply that what is being discussed is possible punishements, not what is actually the right course of action:

Kelhubath (11a-11b): "When a grown-up man has had intercourse with a little girl... It means this: When a grown up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this [see footnote] three years old it is as if one puts the finger into the eye [again see footnote] tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl three years old."

This is probably the most insidious quote in the whole list.

The words are correctly quoted but completely out of context. All the words after [see footnote] actually appear in the footnote, and are therefore not part of the Talmud itself. This passage is a discussion of the penalties and consequences of adult-child sexual relations. The point being made is that if a man has sexual relations with a little girl, that is to be punished less harshly than if it is with an older child or an adult woman. Importantly, when she grows up, the child is to regarded as still having her virginity for legal and marriage purposes. She is not to suffer. In modern times it is quite shocking to think that the fine or reparation for raping an infant should be less than that for raping or seducing an older child, but that is the relative judgement that some of the rabbis made, and which is recorded in the Talmud. The following paragraphs continue to discuss this issue, and there does not seem to be a strong consensus on the issue. The important thing, though, is that whilst from a modern standpoint we (whether Christian, Jew or atheist) might deplore the medical and psychological ignorance which seems to inform this decision, it must be stressed that the Talmud in no sense condones such behaviour.[/B][/B] The discussion is about how it should be punished. [/B]

Splitting pubic hairs

edit

not that 3 yo have any

marpat

04-11-2009, 09:38 PM

Splitting pubic hairs

edit

not that 3 yo have any

That is a pretty sick joke. It looks to me that they are discussing something whereas many people seem to quote these words as if it is the prefered course of action. Big difference.

meksar

04-11-2009, 10:24 PM

I feel that the actions of a minority of Jewish people has meant the duped majorities of Jewish people have always been scapegoats to the agendas and devious plot of the ruthless powers that be.

marpat

04-11-2009, 10:37 PM

I feel that the actions of a minority of Jewish people has meant the duped majorities of Jewish people have always scapegoats to the agendas and devious plot of the ruthless powers that be.

Well I have been reading a little on some of these 'talmud' comments and it would appear that a lot of the ones that people use are not part of the talmud but comments and discussions on it and some are classed as outright lies, with some of the quoted books not even existing.

runciter

05-11-2009, 07:39 AM

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm

Runciter, can you tell me what section in the book you quote from?

jews are allowed (encouraged) to lie and deceive to protect their filthy tradition.

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss96/dopotutto/54.jpg http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss96/dopotutto/82.jpg

runciter

05-11-2009, 07:42 AM

And do you honestly think that many jews in the modern world would take such council? dont forget that the authority of jewish religion is in the Torah, not the talmud as such. The talmud was written by men to cover subjects that are not mentioned in the torah.

How can it be that non- jews could have no rights when the torah states 'thou shalt not oppress the stranger for thou wast a stranger in Egypt'?

Do you have access to a genuine copy of the talmud or are you taking this straight from another persons website? I want to look into this myself as it would appear that the talmud would be telling people to do what is agaisnt the laws of their own religion.

the talmud is normative in judaism, not the torah.

i downloaded the scans i posted above from the page i quoted from, you can do the same if you want.

meksar

05-11-2009, 09:42 AM

Jews are not even a race, they are an anti-race. Satanic Zionist Jews have to destroy every society that tolerates their lying, double crossing, hypocritical and of course devilish presence and ways, they are very much like parasites, only difference is that parasites are smart enough not to try and destroy their own host.

rodin

05-11-2009, 09:57 AM

Jews are not even a race, they are an anti-race. Jews have to destroy every society that tolerates their lying, double crossing, hypocritical and of course devilish presence, they are very much like parasites, only difference is that parasites are smart enough not to try and destroy their own host.

Elizabeth Dilling wrote

The Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith has issued a series of leaflets for Fireside Discussion Groups. Number 7 is entitled: “Three Questions Jews Must Answer.”

The question “Are Jews a Race?” is answered, briefly, with the conclusion that Jews are part of a “general admixture” of races.

“Are Jews a Nation?’ is answered with the idea that Jews form parts of all nations; that some of them have the Zionist ideal of a Palestinian nation but “Jews have a consciousness of world unity.” To quote: Jews are “definitely a type, and consciously a unity, we are an historic people — a world community.”

The question “Are Jews a Religion?” is answered by the assertion that “There are hundreds of thousands of Jews who are unbelievers. Yet they still consider themselves Jews.” The incident of Jews converted to Christianity asking to help build a Jewish Palestine is related. “It is true that there are hundreds of thousands of atheist Jews, but they need not fear to be represented by Judaism. Of this they may be sure: that Judaism will not misrepresent them.”

We know that the gangster or the woman of the streets will acquire a “look,” not evident in the cradle. A glance at the photos of leading Jews in a Jewish Who’s Who reveals a striking, often fierce, “Talmudic look.”

Isaiah the prophet in denouncing the Judah tribe for their abominations said:

“The show of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! For they have rewarded evil unto themselves!” ( Isaiah 3:9)
Whatever the “Jewish look” may be caused by, it is not a result of race or genealogy. The propaganda with which we are currently deluged, to the effect that the Jews who have taken the Holy Land by force, displacing Arabs who had lived there for many centuries, are merely “descendants” of the prophets, “returning to their homeland,” is the purest fiction and wholly false.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt09.html#Look

...Nature and nurture?

runciter

05-11-2009, 10:27 AM

http://www.henrymakow.com/marranos_--_the_original_crypt.html

from makow's article (that quotes from "the secret jews" by prinz)

However, the Church soon realized it had made a fatal blunder. As you would expect, the majority of these converts were not sincere. These were called "Marranos" (pigs.) But now that they could pass as Christians, they were exempt from the taxes and restrictions that governed Jews. They were more influential and powerful than ever.

They intermarried with the nobility and rose to the highest ranks in government and the Church. The founder of the Jesuits, Ignatius of Loyola, was a converso, and so was his successor Diego Lainex. Most conversos practiced Judaism in secret and were considered "Judaizers."

The "Jews had invaded Spain from within...Judaism was not only incurable; it seemed to be invincible....rather than solving the "Jewish question" the mass conversions had created a new problem: a powerful middle class made up of secret Jews." (42)

The Marranos are the original model for the Freemasons and Communists. They pretended to belong to the target group. But, like Masons, they had handshakes to recognize each other and they met in secret at night to rehearse their subversive dogmas.

another source claiming that loyola was a marrano, it makes sense to me.

meksar

05-11-2009, 10:30 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7Tz8l-t1o4

meksar

05-11-2009, 12:05 PM

They are demonic users of MK Ultra- Monarch Programmed Multiples, Human Robots, do their bidding. "Keepers of the Vatican Treasure" and most honest Catholics have no clue. Grooming their inaudibility down through the centuries...while the pedophilia warrior priests (Cardinals & Bishops) in Rome remain cloaked in piety "decked in purple and scarlet".No doubt they will have refrigeration units in their caskets to no avail. All of these serpentine beasts engaging in Human/Child Sacrifice Ritual and it is enough to make you vomit!

rodin

05-11-2009, 02:49 PM

marpat

05-11-2009, 08:29 PM

the talmud is normative in judaism, not the torah.

i downloaded the scans i posted above from the page i quoted from, you can do the same if you want.

Well I found some stuff that refutes much of the 'evidence' that people claim. I could post it but would people really be interested? so many people have invested time and effort to build an anti-jewish world view that I expect they would just claim such rebuffs are propoganda.

How can the torah not be normal in judaism? the talmud is an expansion of the concepts in the torah. To me that sounds like the 10 commandments are not normal in church

marpat

05-11-2009, 08:30 PM

runciter

05-11-2009, 08:36 PM

Well I found some stuff that refutes much of the 'evidence' that people claim. I could post it but would people really be interested? so many people have invested time and effort to build an anti-jewish world view that I expect they would just claim such rebuffs are propoganda.

when you have scanned pages of an unedited english edition of the talmud, there isn't much to rebuff.

How can the torah not be normal in judaism? the talmud is an expansion of the concepts in the torah. To me that sounds like the 10 commandments are not normal in church

the talmud is an interpretation of the torah, and interpretations can sometimes betray the spirit of the original.

the old testament itself is full of questionable "teachings"

We find the prohibition on incest in greater detail in Lev. 18,6-17. In the following list, the specific prohibitions on incest are given. The perpetrator is always the one to whom the prohibition applies:

- General prohibition on incest, Verse 2;

- Sex with parents, verse 7, perpetrator: child;

- Sex with the mother, respectively, step-mother, Verse 8, perpetrator, child;

- Sex with the sister, respectively, half-sister, Verse 9, perpetrator: child:

- Sex with the aunt, Verse 12-13, perpetrator: child;

- Sex with the uncle, Verse 14, perpetrator: child.

- Sex with the uncle's wife, Verse 14, perpetrator: child;

- Sex with the sister-in-law, Verse 15; perpetrator: child;

- Sex with the daughter-in-law, Verse 15, perpetrator: child;

- Sex with the granddaughter, Verse 19, perpetrator: grandfather;

- Sex with the step-daughter, Verse 17, perpetrator: step-father;

- Sex with step-granddaughter, Verse 17, perpetrator: step-grandfather.

In most of the cases (8 from 11), the perpetrator is the child, who doesn't have to be a minor. The first detailed prohibition refers to sex with the parents. There is, however, no prohibition that refers to sex with the daughter or son. The biological father and biological mother, are not denoted as perpetrators. There is no woman as perpetrator.

http://www.hagalil.com/bet-debora/jewish-women/golandsky.htm

marpat

05-11-2009, 10:41 PM

And when people refer to the talmud are the refering to the Palestinian talmud of the babylonian one?

marpat

05-11-2009, 10:44 PM

What are your responses to this guys analysis:

http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/van_hyning.html

meksar

06-11-2009, 12:50 AM

I am sure the contents of your imagination are sickening enough. How can you live with all of that trash going through your mind? you act as if you are full of hate and bitterness.

This is the shocking truth we do not hear about in the mainstream media and historical accounts. These people would rather kill then give up a penny of their wealth, the contents of their desired structure are sickening enough. When they are raping, torturing and killing it makes them feel alive, they are locked in a state of hate, bitterness and outright evil. People are waking up in mass to the fact that the Illuminati does not care about bloodshed anywhere in the world.

meksar

06-11-2009, 01:12 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SHUTf_u-eM

meksar

06-11-2009, 01:28 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4tqzeisltY&feature=related

meksar

06-11-2009, 01:35 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuEKUSK8R7k&feature=fvw

meksar

06-11-2009, 01:44 AM

This is why naive/ignorant people can only mock or downplay these exposures, because he has glasses and a shelf full of books behind him his word is taken more seriously by the masses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFWi9qbzyXE&feature=related

antihypnosis

06-11-2009, 08:13 AM

http://www.xeeatwelve.net/articles/protocols.html

marpat

06-11-2009, 08:26 PM

rodin

06-11-2009, 09:14 PM

icarus are you Roman Catholic by brith?

Oh dear - a Freudian slip

rodin

06-11-2009, 10:26 PM

Again I post this link because it clearly counters what many claim about the talmud. Are there any who can undo this mans work?

http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/van_hyning.html

Also, what talmud do people keep talking about, Palestinian of Babylonian? people dont seem to single out which one they are attacking

I have seen these claims for the Talmud before and I seem to remember they were comprehensively debunked. I will look for the relevant information. Unfortunately my first port of call for such enquiry is not yet up again after an denial of service attack.

Meanwhile...

The Talmud consists of two parts: the Mishnah, and its commentary, the Gemara. The Mishnah, compiled and edited by Judah Hanasi about 200 C.E., was the first Jewish code of laws since the Torah. There are two Gemaras, known as the Babylonian and the Palestinian. The former, completed about 500 C.E.

.. do Masons use BCE and CE rather than the more common BC and AD?

runciter

07-11-2009, 08:09 AM

Again I post this link because it clearly counters what many claim about the talmud. Are there any who can undo this mans work?

http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/van_hyning.html

you didn't download the scans from roy tov's site, i guess.

Also, what talmud do people keep talking about, Palestinian of Babylonian? people dont seem to single out which one they are attacking

israel shahak wrote

It should therefore be clearly understood that the source of authority for all the practices of classical (and present-day Orthodox) Judaism, the determining base of its legal structure, is the Talmud, or, to be precise, the so-called Babylonian Talmud; while the rest of the talmudic literature (including the so~called Jerusalem or Palestinian Talmud) acts as a supplementary authority.

(from "jewish history, jewish religion")

runciter

07-11-2009, 09:30 AM

What are your responses to this guys analysis:

http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/van_hyning.html

there is a masonry/judaism connection

Because there has been such a powerful cover up of the role Jews have played in Freemasonry, this subject must be dealt with. The Reformed Rabbi Gotthold Saloman wrote that Freemasonry was more a Jewish movement in origin than Christian. However, as is so often the case today, Jews can say things about themselves which if Gentiles, the Goy, say the same thing, then the non-Jews are in serious trouble.

The initial formation by four Masonic lodges in 1717 of the first public Grand Lodge, included several Jewish Masons as participants. These were Marranos Jews (Jews converted to Christianity) and included Mendez, de Medina, Alvarez, and Baruch. In other words, Jews were there from the start. A look at the seals of the various Masonic groups in England in the 18th century reveals a Jewish or magical influence.

Many books, including Morey's recent one, portray the American lodges as anti-Jewish. This is a smokescreen. The only Grand Lodge that was really anti-Jewish was the Prussian Grand Lodge which eventually transformed itself into the Thule Society and then into the Nazi Party. The reason that the Prussian Lodges became concerned in the early 19th century about Jewish control of Freemasonry could be a book in itself, but was based on several items, 1. being close to the several radical Jewish movements in Poland and the German States, the Germans were more aware of what was taking place, 2. in Germany warnings were given by ex-Masons and Masons, 3. German authors like Johann Christian Ehrmann in 1816, Eduard Emil Eckert (Der Freimaurer-Orden in seiner wahren Bedeutung, c. 1850), and Georg Michael Pachtler to name a few wrote books warning the Germans about Freemasonry and the power of Jews within the lodges.

A close examination by reliable Masonic, Jewish, and other sources reveals that the Jews have indeed played an important part in the Masonic lodges since their beginning. A person today will witness for instance such things as the Feast of Tishri observed by for instance the Arkansas Lodge of Perfection.

http://www.henrymakow.com/the_jewish_character_of_the_ea.html

rodin

07-11-2009, 09:58 AM

there is a masonry/judaism connection
http://www.henrymakow.com/the_jewish_character_of_the_ea.html

More than just a connection perhaps

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88058

icarus

07-11-2009, 10:28 AM

icarus are you Roman Catholic by brith?

That's right, Catholics everywhere.

A Catholic bought the twin towers weeks before they were destroyed and made a tidy profit on the insurance.

Another Catholic bought the shopping mall under the towers in the same time frame with the same results.

Catholics were in charge of security at the airports involved.

Catholics were caught red handed filming the burning towers. They had a van with traces of explosives inside.

Catholis were arrested just after 911 by the FBI, but sadly were then let go on minor visa details.

Catholic art students occupied the floor that was hit by one aircraft. They were doing some wierd secret art project.

And on and on and on. Catholics eveywhere, and in many terror attacks since.

A Catholic came out and said 911 was a good day for Catholics, as it has been ever since. Catholics have never been as stong in the world as they are now, and it's all down to 911.

I'm an atheist by the way, but not the communist kind ;)

Devious buggers them catholics.

rodin

07-11-2009, 10:53 AM

There was a thread on the Jews behind 911. Unfortunately the entire thread got deleted because one of the posts linked to a site that Chrome flagged up as being harmful.

Hopefully this information can be restored once TIO gets over its denial of service attack

icarus

07-11-2009, 11:16 AM

I am sure the contents of your imagination are sickening enough. How can you live with all of that trash going through your mind? you act as if you are full of hate and bitterness.

Ah, classic. The old "it's not me it's you" line.

Text book stuff.

Israel's response to Goldstone's report was to try to redefine the laws of war, in keeping with the above.

It's not them you see, it's us.

Simples.:D

aronia

07-11-2009, 11:40 AM

That's right, Catholics everywhere.

A Catholic bought the twin towers weeks before they were destroyed and made a tidy profit on the insurance.

Another Catholic bought the shopping mall under the towers in the same time frame with the same results.

Catholics were in charge of security at the airports involved.

Catholics were caught red handed filming the burning towers. They had a van with traces of explosives inside.

Catholis were arrested just after 911 by the FBI, but sadly were then let go on minor visa details.

Catholic art students occupied the floor that was hit by one aircraft. They were doing some wierd secret art project.

And on and on and on. Catholics eveywhere, and in many terror attacks since.

A Catholic came out and said 911 was a good day for Catholics, as it has been ever since. Catholics have never been as stong in the world as they are now, and it's all down to 911.

I'm an atheist by the way, but not the communist kind ;)

Devious buggers them catholics.

I guess not but who cares about 911 anymore.

Anyway

I don`t hate Catholics at all.

runciter

07-11-2009, 12:08 PM

More than just a connection perhaps

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88058

do you think the birth of modern masonry was... inspired by jews?

rodin

07-11-2009, 03:55 PM

do you think the birth of modern masonry was... inspired by jews?

Read the thread n links

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88058

It looks very likely

marpat

07-11-2009, 06:48 PM

there is a masonry/judaism connection

http://www.henrymakow.com/the_jewish_character_of_the_ea.html

Not really refuting that guys claims though is it? he clearly states that some people refer to books that dont even exist.

rodin

07-11-2009, 07:08 PM

Not really refuting that guys claims though is it? he clearly states that some people refer to books that dont even exist.

THE JEWISH TALMUD is “Holy Writ” for the Jews. The Talmud supercedes the Old Testament in authority for the Jews. And the Talmud is the most racist, hate-mongering , blasphemous book the world has ever known.
The Talmud was written in Hebrew between the 3rd & 6th Centuries as a codification of the so-called Oral Law that the Jewish rabbis claim was handed down from Moses. But the Messiah Jesus censored the “Oral Law” when He said, “By the traditions of your elders you make void the Word of God.” (St Matthew 15).

The English translation of the Talmud has been watered down so as to conceal from the Gentiles the “satanic verses” contained in the original Hebrew.

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=156

Brother Nathaniel Kapner converted from Judaism like Benjamin Freedman and can read Hebrew unlike me.

He cites Michael Hoffman's work Judaism's Strange Gods. I have heard the Michael Hoffman is the leading researcher on these matters.

marpat

07-11-2009, 07:33 PM

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=156

Brother Nathaniel Kapner converted from Judaism like Benjamin Freedman and can read Hebrew unlike me.

He cites Michael Hoffman's work Judaism's Strange Gods. I have heard the Michael Hoffman is the leading researcher on these matters.

So just because he has converted and made such claims then this means it must be true? it is clear he has become a christian yet various churches have also used such language against people they hate. St Olidon refers to women as sacks of excrement so when a christian starts going on about jews saying evil things then they really need to look at where they are coming from themselves.

I notice he fails to mention messianic jews who believe jesus was the messiah and who are oppressed in Israel and just refers to jews as christ haters. It ounds like the work or a radicallised christian convert and he is even accepting donations for his work. Obviusly his jewish traits are coming out there. Read further down the page to see what this guy is really about!!!

Why shoud people put their trust in somebody who is only looking to convert people to his new found faith?

runciter

07-11-2009, 07:33 PM

Not really refuting that guys claims though is it? he clearly states that some people refer to books that dont even exist.

he has an agenda, and you can download scans of the talmud from roy tov's site.

jews can lie about judaism, masons can lie about masonry, masonry and judaism are sisters...

runciter

07-11-2009, 07:36 PM

So just because he has converted and made such claims then this means it must be true? it is clear he has become a christian yet various churches have also used such language against people they hate. St Olidon refers to women as sacks of excrement so when a christian starts going on about jews saying evil things then they really need to look at where they are coming from themselves.

I notice he fails to mention messianic jews who believe jesus was the messiah and who are oppressed in Israel and just refers to jews as christ haters. It ounds like the work or a radicallised christian convert and he is even accepting donations for his work. Obviusly his jewish traits are coming out there. Read further down the page to see what this guy is really about!!!

Why shoud people put their trust in somebody who is only looking to convert people to his new found faith?

you can download scans of an uncensored english edition of the talmud from roy tov's site.

ah, another thing...

you can download scans of the talmud from this page: http://www.roytov.com/articles/talmud.htm

marpat

07-11-2009, 07:37 PM

he has an agenda, and you can download scans of the talmud from roy tov's site.

jews can lie about judaism, masons can lie about masonry, masonry and judaism are sisters...

That is the sort of post that hold no water for me.

What if those scan are actually false? do you know that the scans are really true? what if roy tov has an agenda to turn people against jews, makes up some documents that make all sorts of claims then makes them sounds similar to chapter of the talmud? many people would soak it up without ever referring to a copy of the talmud or checking to see if he is true or not.

That seems to refer to the babylonian talmud. Are there any supposed scans of the palestinian talmud?

runciter

07-11-2009, 07:47 PM

That is the sort of post that hold no water for me.

What if those scan are actually false? do you know that the scans are really true? what if roy tov has an agenda to turn people against jews, makes up some documents that make all sorts of claims then makes them sounds similar to chapter of the talmud? many people would soak it up without ever referring to a copy of the talmud or checking to see if he is true or not.

That seems to refer to the babylonian talmud. Are there any supposed scans of the palestinian talmud?

roy tov wrote

Soncino

The Talmud – written in Hebrew and Aramaic – was largely ignored by the world until the Jews' College translation was published through Soncino Press between 1935 and 1948. This was the first complete English translation, produced by authoritative Jewish scholars in the world and is considered a reliable text. It is important to keep that in mind while judging the next sections.

Elizabeth Dilling

Once this task was accomplished, the way was open for an international examination of the text. Elizabeth Dilling published the first critique of the Talmud, a book called The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today. She used the Soncino Talmud, and quotes also the Jewish Encyclopedia, the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia and other publications. Her analysis is considered serious.

My readers can download here (http://www.roytov.com/downloads/ElizabethDillingTheJewishReligion.pdf) her book and here (http://www.roytov.com/downloads/Exhibits.zip) the bulky exhibits accompanying it.

Before continuing with the answer of the Jewish community to Dilling’s publication, I would like to bring some of the commentaries appearing in her book.

http://www.roytov.com/articles/talmud.htm

rodin

07-11-2009, 08:09 PM

you can download scans of an uncensored english edition of the talmud from roy tov's site.

ah, another thing...

you can download scans of the talmud from this page: http://www.roytov.com/articles/talmud.htm

Runciter I can't get this link to work. I would like to download it for - shall we say - safekeeping ;)

runciter

07-11-2009, 08:19 PM

have you tried the direct download links in my previous post? (inside the quote)

marpat

07-11-2009, 08:20 PM

Here are another talmud link

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm

marpat

07-11-2009, 09:28 PM

Here is a link that states the torah scroll is the most important document in the synagogue:

'Among other things, the Torah contains an account of the creation of the world, God's special call to Abraham, the giving of the Ten Commandments to Moses, God's rescue of Israel from slavery in Egypt, the wandering in the wilderness, and the conquering of Canaan, the Promised Land. The Torah is by far the most important part of the Tanakh because, in addition to including these important stories, it also details the commandments (mitzvot) God gave the Jewish people through Moses.

Accordingly, the Torah scroll (Sefer Torah) is the most important object in a synagogue. The text is carefully handwritten in Hebrew calligraphy on a parchment made of animal skins, and the scroll is kept in an ark (short for aron kodesh, "holy cabinet"). The Torah has been read publically since the time of Ezra (c. 450 BCE). '

http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/texts/torah.htm

The link for the talmud is here. It is clearly a set of dialogues between rabbis on how the torah should be applied:

'The Talmud also plays an important role in Conservative Judaism, although it is viewed as an evolutionary process that changes with the times. Both professional and lay Talmudic scholarship is dedicated to determining the proper response to modern issues by intensive study of the Talmud. Reform Judaism officially rejects the Talmud as an entirely human invention reflecting medieval thought and values'.

http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/texts/talmud.htm

These few bits of information seem to me to confirm the idea that the talmud is not an unchanging, absolute document of behaviour but a set of ideas, written by MEN, on how people should live in accordance with the torah, which is the more important document.

meksar

07-11-2009, 10:24 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3l-ii-SKF8

meksar

07-11-2009, 10:52 PM

I believe a lot of what this man in the video above is saying is true, because i know what the Zionist Jews are doing to the blacks in the ghetto and it does seem like history is repeating itself. They are lying about the number of people who died in the holocaust. Jews were the major players in the African Slave Trade,and they do not want this widely known just like their other genocidal expliots around the world.

Why should honest and decent people allow them to escape the evil they did to others?, and yet they have every clueless halfwit(lets face it there is a lot of them) feeling sorry for them. Zionists are responsible for all the negative images of blacks coming out of Hollywood. Also fagot ass,cocksucking,lowlife Jews like David Geffen,Sumner Redstone and Jimmy Iovine etc are pulling the strings behind the scenes of gangsta rap(homosexual rent boys selling violence to the youth).

rodin

08-11-2009, 12:03 AM

have you tried the direct download links in my previous post? (inside the quote)

I pulled down a cached page earlier but no scans of course

trying now...

nope

Oops! This link appears to be broken.

Check this out n tell me the protocols are bullshit OP

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=461

...the comments are valuable adds

meksar

08-11-2009, 12:58 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn16ThKUdIU

meksar

08-11-2009, 01:13 AM

This is where Freemasonry crosses the line. It was founded by Luciferians & Satanists- descendants from the Knights Templar/Illuminati Jews. Their is no loyalty to national laws, international laws or any other body politic.

"You must conceal all crimes of your brother Masons, & should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him.It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations". Ronayne Handbook of Masonry, pg 183.

runciter

08-11-2009, 08:44 AM

I pulled down a cached page earlier but no scans of course

trying now...

nope

try these runci links

http://www.4shared.com/file/148042721/6bccde14/ElizabethDillingTheJewishReligion.html (dilling's book)

http://www.4shared.com/file/148046765/87af485e/Exhibits.html (talmud scans)

Check this out n tell me the protocols are bullshit OP

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=461

...the comments are valuable adds

i read that article some days ago... now i'm going to read the comments :)

rodin

08-11-2009, 08:52 AM

gilly

08-11-2009, 12:51 PM

Thread closed at OP's request.