Dig for Victory its good for you

[rollotomaz1]

Its oficial folks we have another war to fight on global warning dig for vistory and cut out all the air and road miles to save the planet, could they be telling us something, eat things that we know that is in them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/earth-environment/article6872027.ece

http://greenguysglobal.com/blog/veg-growing-for-dummies-grow-for-victory

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090312165119AASAp0l

http://floridagardener.com/vgarden/index.htm

[grenadene]

Growing your own is one of the most proactive and I like to believe 'subversive' things you can do :)

I hate it when the term global warming is used in connection to its benefits.

[ozlo]

There was guy on emtv a few weeks ago and reckons there have only been two previous occasions where grow your own has been so heavily promoted. Once prior to the WWI and prior to WWII. Both times coinciding with large patches of Buckinham Palace gardens being dug up to grow veg!

[rollotomaz1]

There was guy on emtv a few weeks ago and reckons there have only been two previous occasions where grow your own has been so heavily promoted. Once prior to the WWI and prior to WWII. Both times coinciding with large patches of Buckinham Palace gardens being dug up to grow veg!

If we need to take ourselves out of the current system, growing your own food is one way to control your own destiny, those that start these projects are likely to go onto other ideas and before you know it there can be a substantial saving looming.

Another way to upset the bankers, I like to use another word is, to take all your wages out of the bank as soon as possible so they cannot get use of it the amount of intrest they give you is hardly worth it anyway, but iff millions of people started doing this they would be at our mercy and maybe treat us with a little more respect, after all its our blood monwy they are taking a chance with, I'm really glad I don't live in Iceland, which you never hear of about much these days, any on this forum from Iceland ?

If we all do just a little bit it then make a huge difference, but I don't think there wil be many people who are yet hungry enough to do anything, then again I could be wrong about that one ?

[elixirsoo]

Great idea but it's getting harder to do it when dealing with shit like this - literally. :mad:


The active chemical, aminopyralid, is present in:



Banish
Forefront
Halcyon
Pharaoh
Pro-Banish
Runway

All are marketed in the UK by Dow AgroSciences Ltd
http://www.allotment.org.uk (http://www.allotment.org.uk/garden-diary/257/aminopyralid-herbicide-residue-in-manure-killing-crops/) Be alert to herbicide active ingredients aminopyralid and clopyralid! (http://www.organics-recycling.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=182:be-alert-to-herbicide-active-ingredients-aminopyralid-and-clopyralid&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18)
The Association for Organics Recycling

Aminopyralid (You got herbicide in my fertilizer!) (http://scienceblogs.com/moleculeoftheday/2008/06/aminopyralid_you_got_herbicide.php)Molecule of the day @ scienceblogs.com :eek:

Are the Crops Safe to Eat?

Dow spent an awful lot of money getting approval in the USA and EU. They state that: "Aminopyralid does not bioaccumulate or build up in animal or plant tissue. " They also state "Animals high on the food chain… are not expected to acquire concentrated doses of this chemical by feeding on contaminated plants or animals" - http://www.allotment.org.uk (http://www.allotment.org.uk/garden-diary/257/aminopyralid-herbicide-residue-in-manure-killing-crops/)
Dow withdrew their products in 2008 but the government re-instated their licence on 6th October 2009, despite widespread concern.

Experienced gardeners burn failed crop material to prevent reinfection. Many new gardeners may compost it, or even worse feed it into municipal composting schemes. :eek:

This stuff has gone through animal guts, survived a hot manure pile and will certainly survive composting.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't as far as food safety in the UK is concerned. :confused:

Anyone interested in reading up on this abomination should go here (http://www.glallotments.btik.com/p_Contaminated_Manure.ikml). Really comprehensive coverage and ongoing. The stories of people affected by this are heart breaking. :(

[mightiswrong]

Keep it organic and you won't have a problem. There are plenty of permaculture techniques like encourging predators like frogs and birds in your garden and if you plant enough food there won't be room for any so called weeds. http://www.anastasiasgarden.com/library/healinggardens/

Have to say this is good news even if the article fails to mention the benefits of planting a kin's garden.

[jesuitsdidit]

Great idea but it's getting harder to do it when dealing with shit like this - literally. :mad:


Be alert to herbicide active ingredients aminopyralid and clopyralid! (http://www.organics-recycling.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=182:be-alert-to-herbicide-active-ingredients-aminopyralid-and-clopyralid&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18)
The Association for Organics Recycling

Aminopyralid (You got herbicide in my fertilizer!) (http://scienceblogs.com/moleculeoftheday/2008/06/aminopyralid_you_got_herbicide.php)Molecule of the day @ scienceblogs.com :eek:

Dow withdrew their products in 2008 but the government re-instated their licence on 6th October 2009, despite widespread concern.

Experienced gardeners burn failed crop material to prevent reinfection. Many new gardeners may compost it, or even worse feed it into municipal composting schemes. :eek:

This stuff has gone through animal guts, survived a hot manure pile and will certainly survive composting.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't as far as food safety in the UK is concerned. :confused:

Anyone interested in reading up on this abomination should go here (http://www.glallotments.btik.com/p_Contaminated_Manure.ikml). Really comprehensive coverage and ongoing. The stories of people affected by this are heart breaking. :(

you wouldnt need herbicide if yr plot was organic..

[elixirsoo]

you wouldnt need herbicide if yr plot was organic..

My garden IS organic! That's the whole point of my post! This is happening to people who have been organic for ever. This is making it's way into bagged organic compost (http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/article.php?aid=263655) products. Just saying everything would be all right if people grew organically is a cop out. :mad:

Sometimes this forum makes me despair. :(

In the real world people don't have enough land to grow their own hay and straw for their animals, this is even in bloody rabbit droppings!

[rollotomaz1]

My garden IS organic! That's the whole point of my post! This is happening to people who have been organic for ever. This is making it's way into bagged organic compost (http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/article.php?aid=263655) products. Just saying everything would be all right if people grew organically is a cop out. :mad:

Sometimes this forum makes me despair. :(

In the real world people don't have enough land to grow their own hay and straw for their animals, this is even in bloody rabbit droppings!

There is plenty of land for this kind of culture, there are millions of acres set aside and stuardshiped that is being paid for doing nothing, this is absolutely not acceptable, again giving someone something for nothing, when that land could be made to work to help get rid of the debts we have.

If we used the people on the dole to give just a single day to help re-forest our nation, we would have forests like those in Germany today, in around 10 years, we must start thinking ahead, then we will have the timber we need for building when we won't be able to afford its shipping costs,

Every work horse needs 1-1/2 acres of cerials to feed it, I have been to woek at the Last all horse farm in Northumberland and its amazing to see how they worked, they have five horses to do all the work and everything earns its keep.

On the film,

There were a few key factors in the film, firstly their weather conditions are sub tropical in winter to tropical in summer, giving them a greater advantage.

Secondly they said that the land they had was almost desert in some regions and it took five years to get the soil back to a decent humus, if you take a look at most of the land has been degraded by 70% compared to a true organic system.

In Cuba the farms are run on a permaculture type basis and are 5 times more productive than here in Europe, the only second to Cuba is Poland and other ex soviet based countries where intencification has not yet taken hold.

The Cuban population at 10 million a whole sixth of the Uk total and a land mass at hlf the uk, at these figures we would have to work realy hard to survive a 50% drop in oil supplies,

It seems that the more we try to force the land the less we get, saying that less can most definately be more quality, this is where I think our farmers should be concentrating on Quality not Quantity, higher quality not cheaper,

The Cubans are much healthier than the Uk have much lower mortality rate and definately seem to be much happier, and good on them, Viva Cuba, and bollocks to you USA for treating them the way you have.

There is some great information in the Land Magazine, back copies are available,

http://www.tlio.org.uk/TheLand/index.html

[elixirsoo]

There is plenty of land for this kind of culture, there are millions of acres set aside and stuardshiped that is being paid for doing nothing, this is absolutely not acceptable, again giving someone something for nothing, when that land could be made to work to help get rid of the debts we have.

If we used the people on the dole to give just a single day to help re-forest our nation, we would have forests like those in Germany today, in around 10 years, we must start thinking ahead, then we will have the timber we need for building when we won't be able to afford its shipping costs,

Every work horse needs 1-1/2 acres of cerials to feed it, I have been to woek at the Last all horse farm in Northumberland and its amazing to see how they worked, they have five horses to do all the work and everything earns its keep.

On the film,

There were a few key factors in the film, firstly their weather conditions are sub tropical in winter to tropical in summer, giving them a greater advantage.

Secondly they said that the land they had was almost desert in some regions and it took five years to get the soil back to a decent humus, if you take a look at most of the land has been degraded by 70% compared to a true organic system.

In Cuba the farms are run on a permaculture type basis and are 5 times more productive than here in Europe, the only second to Cuba is Poland and other ex soviet based countries where intencification has not yet taken hold.

The Cuban population at 10 million a whole sixth of the Uk total and a land mass at hlf the uk, at these figures we would have to work realy hard to survive a 50% drop in oil supplies,

It seems that the more we try to force the land the less we get, saying that less can most definately be more quality, this is where I think our farmers should be concentrating on Quality not Quantity, higher quality not cheaper,

The Cubans are much healthier than the Uk have much lower mortality rate and definately seem to be much happier, and good on them, Viva Cuba, and bollocks to you USA for treating them the way you have.

There is some great information in the Land Magazine, back copies are available,

http://www.tlio.org.uk/TheLand/index.html

I'm already familiar with The Land is Ours and especially the Levellers. This fight has been taking place, in one way or another, for centuries. Getting shafted by TPTB is by no means a modern problem. :(

The land currently used for commercial growing is totally dead. The use of herbicides and pesticides have killed it. I'm amazed at the amount of people who have no idea that soil is a living organism, which needs to be fed and maintained to remain productive.

The Cuban organic growing story is amazing as is the whole Cuban system. 100% literacy, trading doctors services for oil - it's truly inspirational. :cool:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1721584909067928384&ei=J_jsSsnxJ8em-AbWr7nqDg&q=cuba+organic&hl=en&view=1&emb=1&dur=3#

[grenadene]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

this is a great film on biodynamic agriculture :)

[mightiswrong]

Here is a quote from the Autobiography of a Yogi (Original 1946 Edition) by Paramhansa Yogananda that confirms what it says in the Ringing cedars series (http://www.anastasiasgarden.com/library/healinggardens/) about the health benefits of loving food. This has been known about for a long time and all they tought us in school was about flouride being good for the teeth.

"I was educated at Cambridge. How admirable is the Western method of submitting all theory to scrupulous experimental verification! That empirical procedure has gone hand in hand with the gift for introspection which is my Eastern heritage. Together they have enabled me to sunder the silences of natural realms long uncommunicative. The telltale charts of my crescograph are evidence for the most skeptical that plants have a sensitive nervous system and a varied emotional life. Love, hate, joy, fear, pleasure, pain, excitability, stupor, and countless appropriate responses to stimuli are as universal in plants as in animals."
http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap8.html

You don't need to buy compost. Produce your own. The plants will grow just fine if you give them the love they need. If you want more hay then it would probably be best to have some fields as part of a community for hay production.

Colorado Kin's Domains is creating a core funding model that re-generates itself through investments, grants and services. The proceeds of this continually regenerating fund will be used to provide financial assistance to new groups forming all over North America.

Our organizational and funding model will be applicable and easily adaptable to other types of transitional settlements such as perma-culture and eco-villages. In addition to upgrading this country’s transition from non-sustainable living to infinitely sustainable and nurturing living, this model will have a tremendously beneficial impact on family health and education of children.

America can lead the world to sustainable living as it led the world into non-sustainable living, and this model will help make that so.

We believe this plan and model will have major and rapid impact in bringing infinitely sustainable living to average citizens of Colorado and North America who don't currently see how they can personally impact the need for sustainable living.
At this time in our history, creating this new lifestyle
IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE CAN DO.
http://www.coloradokindomains.com/OurPlan.htm

[mightiswrong]

"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." (http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap38.html)

“Back then they still knew that everything growing in the ground carries in itself a psychic energy. To be healthy, one must feed one’s self with lovingly grown produce. This was mentioned in several ancient books in the Alexandria Library, which was destroyed.” http://www.anastasiasgarden.com/library/eatinganddiet/

[rollotomaz1]

I'm already familiar with The Land is Ours and especially the Levellers. This fight has been taking place, in one way or another, for centuries. Getting shafted by TPTB is by no means a modern problem. :(

The land currently used for commercial growing is totally dead. The use of herbicides and pesticides have killed it. I'm amazed at the amount of people who have no idea that soil is a living organism, which needs to be fed and maintained to remain productive.

The Cuban organic growing story is amazing as is the whole Cuban system. 100% literacy, trading doctors services for oil - it's truly inspirational. :cool:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1721584909067928384&ei=J_jsSsnxJ8em-AbWr7nqDg&q=cuba+organic&hl=en&view=1&emb=1&dur=3#

I have seen this film many times and studdied the Cuban story for several years now, this is definately the way we should be going, the trading of doctors for oil is a good system what you could call the barter system, if we grew all our own seed and food then there is no need for money, the land and the system feeds itself.

We have been farmers on and off on one side of the family since 1508 my father in law has been a farmer since 1926 and we have been totally organical and SSSI status before it was even invented, if there were thistles we would go and pull every one out by hand instead of using sprays.

Our own garden gave us all the green we needed for free, with fruit trees and a sizable pond for, three meats, waterfowl, hens, mutton what else do you need.

Like you say 70% of arabal throughout the world is degraded so much that come the advent of no more fertilisers and chemicals to falsely force along the crop we are in really big trouble and it could take at least 5 years to get the soil back to a living entity which the Cuban's mention it took them.

All Farmers need to start looking at biodivercity now and working with their local population to start enhancing the land as well as their bodies and minds sharing their labour and bounty from the land, because labour is needed to bring this about and cannot be brought back to life without it, its man and animal not machine which will bring it all about.

John Dodd his son in law David Wise and Grandson Andrew are living proof of what can be done if you want it to be, they are the nicest bunch of guys you could ever meet, I went up for a days ploughing last year which was an eye opener for me being used to tractors beforehand, its not hard work at all you simply walk behind the beasts, they do the work for you, its a great film which was filmed over a three year period where you will notice that the boy grows quite a lot from start to finnish, se a clip below.

The Last Horsemen - Britain's only Horse Powered Farm - YouTube

I have been trying to get the local land owner to rent off a very small portion of his land for several years now for the local residents, but he is looking at the larger picture and wants to rent all of the plot off, he is not a farmer but a doctor and doesn't want to do anything himself,

And keeps l00king for grants to improve the area instead of working it, this is where I would step in and say to our government no more free money to people who don't want to make the land work for them, otherwise its good money going to a waster in the dormant scense of the word.

If farmers cannot see the way forward and join in on such schemes we will go nowhere fast, if we start working together today as a whole we can achieve Cuban like status within ten years, but ten years from now and we will be in a much worse position, we should say its our land we will do with it what ever we like, its our future not theirs.

[elixirsoo]

I have seen this film many times and studdied the Cuban story for several years now, this is definately the way we should be going, the trading of doctors for oil is a good system what you could call the barter system, if we grew all our own seed and food then there is no need for money, the land and the system feeds itself.

We have been farmers on and off on one side of the family since 1508 my father in law has been a farmer since 1926 and we have been totally organical and SSSI status before it was even invented, if there were thistles we would go and pull every one out by hand instead of using sprays.

Our own garden gave us all the green we needed for free, with fruit trees and a sizable pond for, three meats, waterfowl, hens, mutton what else do you need.
My family were all miners in South Wales but my aunt and uncle had a huge allotment at the rear of the terrace. We grew a huge variety of stuff there and sold the surplus. From the age of five I helped out in the huge greenhouse pricking out seedlings etc. It was a wonderful childhood and gave me the love of the soil that I have today. My garden is very small, by comparison, but the potential is great given the right care.
Like you say 70% of arabal throughout the world is degraded so much that come the advent of no more fertilisers and chemicals to falsely force along the crop we are in really big trouble and it could take at least 5 years to get the soil back to a living entity which the Cuban's mention it took them.

All Farmers need to start looking at biodivercity now and working with their local population to start enhancing the land as well as their bodies and minds sharing their labour and bounty from the land, because labour is needed to bring this about and cannot be brought back to life without it, its man and animal not machine which will bring it all about.
The degradation of the soil is the biggest problem facing the world today. The management of land was perfected by thousands of years of experience and it has been destroyed by the headlong rush into technology. I can understand the need to employ the methods used to maximise crop yields during war time, but to continue it afterwards was madness.

IMHO, government does understand the problems faced but has chosen to go down the new technology path instead of the tried and tested one. Profit before people, yet again.
John Dodd his son in law David Wise and Grandson Andrew are living proof of what can be done if you want it to be, they are the nicest bunch of guys you could ever meet, I went up for a days ploughing last year which was an eye opener for me being used to tractors beforehand, its not hard work at all you simply walk behind the beasts, they do the work for you, its a great film which was filmed over a three year period where you will notice that the boy grows quite a lot from start to finnish, se a clip below.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wGra0o15hY[/media (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wGra0o15hY%5B/media)]
Thanks for the clip! I have ordered the DVD and look forward to watching the whole film.
I have been trying to get the local land owner to rent off a very small portion of his land for several years now for the local residents, but he is looking at the larger picture and wants to rent all of the plot off, he is not a farmer but a doctor and doesn't want to do anything himself,

And keeps l00king for grants to improve the area instead of working it, this is where I would step in and say to our government no more free money to people who don't want to make the land work for them, otherwise its good money going to a waster in the dormant scense of the word.
This is a good example of the eventual outcome of the original land enclosure in todays world.
If farmers cannot see the way forward and join in on such schemes we will go nowhere fast, if we start working together today as a whole we can achieve Cuban like status within ten years, but ten years from now and we will be in a much worse position, we should say its our land we will do with it what ever we like, its our future not theirs.
The problem in the UK is the amount of land held by agribusiness who are absentee landlords. I can't see any reforms coming via our current political syste, which is hand in pocket with the corporations. The stage is currently set for the only thing to ever bring about radical change, which is revolution. The sad thing is that it doesn't have to be that way – the lesson of history never seems to get learnt in politics. Nothing is too big to fail.

[rollotomaz1]

One of the bi-products fro the modern farming techniques is the run off from the land into the rivers and then into the seas and oceans, where it is most prevalent there is more than not a dead zone at the outpour, which with any other mass polution kills everything in its path, this is bad news for the marine life, especially the lower end of the chain.

As a child my father had the most wonderfull life, they had a small river running through the land where they could get salmon and seas trout in the season, and they virtually lived on mutton self butchered which I still much prefer, they never had much money but knew how to make ends meet perfectly, this is where most people are going to suffer if things get more scarce,

To make a new gate post we would carry the materials to the place where it was going to be used, get plenty of wash-up from the river for sand and small stones, dig a hole in the ground next to the gateway, throw in the cement and stones etc, a few old rusty metal rods, let the whole thing set then lift it up and straight into the hole, there are still emains of many such post castings at the side of the walls.

I saw a program on TV today where they were asking children where their food came from, eggs came from trees and milk came from the supermarket this is unbelievable, what are our kids doing, I feel very sorry for their parents having to put up with this kind of ignorance, ask them what a virgin is and the would probably say the cable supply.

There is still plenty of time to get a groups of people together who can meet and work together for an alternative supply of food, and food for the mind as well as the body, gets them out of the house and from in front of the telly.