True Gnostic church

[tannah]

Haven't checked out the rest of this site, but quite like what I've read so far.




Credo of the True Gnostic Church



1. The only proper religion for mankind is humanity itself, for it is from this humanity that God first evolved.

2. God is a glorified and exalted human being.

3. It is morally wrong to kill a human in the name of religion, nationalism, or justice, for whenever we kill our fellow man, we strike at the very birthseed of God.

4. Evolution and natural selection are correct principles of creation, and it is through this creative process that God and Heaven came into existence and continues to evolve. All things which are real must of necessity have a beginning. To say that God has no beginning is to say that God is not real. As true Gnostics, we believe that God is very real.

5. This earth upon which we live is the very first from which God evolved. As a consequence, this world is known by those who believe as the World of the First Power.

6. The material world contains within its mortal, physical nature, the very essence and similitude of all things wondrous and eternal. Unlike the false Gnostics of ages past, we do not believe that the material world is evil.

7. The concept of God is represented by two distinct and separate persons, our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother.

8. We are the literal spiritual offspring of God, and have the capacity to become just like our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother if we so choose.

9. The Holy Spirit is no less than the office of the Heavenly Mother, and that it is she who inspires and guides us through our mortal life experience.

10. It is holiness, benevolence, and wisdom which define the nature of God, not power, anger, or hate.

11. True worship is the imitation of God’s goodness; it is to imitate the character, disposition, and attitude of our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

12. The Song of God, as written by Azrael Ondi-Ahman, contains the true thoughts and feelings of our Heavenly Parents, and these scriptures are the cornerstone of our faith. As true Gnostics, God has provided us with our own original book of scripture, which scriptures contain the true and living gnosis of our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

13. In order for faith to be real and acceptable to God, then such a faith must always acknowledge the believer’s right to walk away from that faith without any judgment or condemnation from God, or from God’s appointed church. True faith, justified faith is always about choice; for it is the freedom to choose that makes a faith powerful. It is not correct doctrine which empowers the believer, but rather the freedom to choose, and in the choosing, faith becomes the gift we give ourselves. (entry added upon Azrael’s request: May 12, 2009)

14. The goal of our faith is exaltation; that by living the sacred principles found in the Song of God, we might become as “only begotten” of our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. Furthermore, we believe that exaltation begins with the transformation of the individual, and that with diligent persistence we can achieve the transcendent state, becoming in our daily life, the reflection of God’s goodness in the world of mortal men and women. For the true Gnostic, Yeshua is the supreme example of the transcendent state.

15. The historical Yeshua of Nazareth was the archetype of what it means to become as “only begotten” while living the mortal life. It was from the life of this historical person that early Christian scholars created the theological construct called Jesus Christ. As true Gnostics therefore, we do believe in the Galilean, and see in him an example worthy of emulation and devotion, but we do not believe in the Jesus Christ found in the Christian faith.

16. We live more than one mortal life. We believe in multiple lives. As a consequence, we do not believe in the resurrection of the mortal body which we currently occupy.

17. The mortal life is a school which provides us the opportunity to:
• Learn about good and evil
• Acquire free agency
• Find the children of God in this mortal life and bring them into fellowship with their
Heavenly Father and Mother
• Pursue the likeness of God through covenants
• Achieve exaltation through the keeping of covenants

18. There is virtue in seeking greater knowledge and in pursuing scientific inquiry for the sole purpose of bettering humankind. However, as true Gnostics, we believe all knowledge and scientific inquiry must have a clear moral objective.

19. The sanctuary of the home is more important to the spiritual life of the family than any church building or temple.

20. The priesthood of God is available to all men and women equally, and the offices of this priesthood are: son/daughter, husband/wife, father/mother, grandfather/grandmother, Patriarch/Matriarch.

21. Sexual expression between loving couples is important to a sense of spiritual fulfillment and well-beingness. And whenever such sexual expressions are rooted in love, respect, and mutual consent, there is no sin. We believe that a healthy sexual lust between loving couples is not evidence of a sinful and degenerate nature, but rather the wholesome expression of one’s eagerness to embrace life, love and sweet communion. As true Gnostics, we believe that to be truly and fully spiritual, we must be fully sexual.

22. The future of mankind will be exciting, surprising and wondrous. And although the future, at times, will be filled with challenges, the human family will meet these challenges and overcome them. We will adapt; as a species, we will endure. As true Gnostics, we DO NOT believe that mankind will end in a fiery apocalypse. We are a religion of hope, not doom.

http://www.truegnosticchurch.org/basic_beliefs.html

[tannah]

I have to admit to agreeing with most of this:




True Gnostics should not be confused with the false Gnostics of ages past, as represented by the codices and tractates discovered at Nag Hammadi, Egypt, in 1945. Neither are we representative of those Gnostics which early church fathers argued against in their efforts to establish a single church orthodoxy with its attendant ecclesiastical authority.



TRUE GNOSTICS...


• do not believe in the fundamental doctrines of Christianity. True Gnostics are not Christians.


• do not accept or believe in the Bible.


• do not believe in original sin.


• do not believe that mankind is inherently evil.


• do not believe in the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. For the doctrine of blood atonement presents a God who demands the human sacrifice of an innocent man, and any God who demands murder to appease justice is unworthy of worship or adoration.


• do not believe in hell or final judgment. For the doctrine of hell and eternal torment are immoral beliefs, and the doctrine of final judgment perverts and distorts mercy, compassion, and forgiveness.


• do not believe in Jehovah. However, true Gnostics do accept that the biblical Jehovah is a demiurge, an evil monster who would present himself as God in order to confuse mankind with regard to what is truly right and wrong.


• do not believe in a devil which leads people into sin. Humankind has produced enough devils of its own without having to create the fictional variety in order to explain the evil that people do against each other. We are accountable to God for our acts of inhumanity towards each other. There is no devil to bring to account.

http://www.truegnosticchurch.org/basic_beliefs/what-true-gnostics-do-not-believe.html

[tannah]

There we are, yet another claim to having had a vision of God. At least this vision tends to echo things about the nature of God I've contemplated for years.



Azrael Ondi-Ahman, a.k.a., Archie Dean Wood, was born on November 14, 1947 into a strict religious Southern Baptist family. From his earliest childhood, Azrael could not believe the stories and descriptions in the Bible claiming to depict the nature and disposition of God. This began a long spiritual quest which imposed upon Azrael a great many sacrifices, hardships and heartaches. In 1979, at the age of 31, Azrael went alone into the wilderness to confront in solitude the issues of God, mankind, mortal life, and the failure of current religious thought to address - in any reasonable manner - such great issues.

On June 19, 1979, deep in the Uinta Wilderness Area of Utah, Azrael was confronted by the real-life, physical appearance of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. It was a physical event governed by physical law; had you been there, you would have seen what Azrael saw.


With the publishing of the Song of God, Azrael has restored, for the first time in 2,000 years, the True Gnostic Church - originally created by the Galilean known as Yeshua Ben Yosephy.

Azrael lives in Boise, Idaho where he continues to write and teach.

http://www.truegnosticchurch.org/about_azrael.html

[tannah]

And a video explaining the difference between Gnostic faith and Religious fear:


http://www.truegnosticchurch.org/resources/video_gnostic-faith-vs-religious-fear.html

[1977]

6. The material world contains within its mortal, physical nature, the very essence and similitude of all things wondrous and eternal. Unlike the false Gnostics of ages past, we do not believe that the material world is evil.
Then they are not "True Gnostics". Next!

[danceswithbunnies]

Then they are not "True Gnostics". Next!


that is not true...the Valentinian Gnostics believed that matter was not purposefully evil..but was a necessary evil for the development of the soul...other gnostic schools as you probably well know had different views.

And of course saying someone is not a True Gnostic puts us in a position much like the fundamentalist who claims all the people of history who don't conform to his beliefs aren't "Real Christians"..

Myself...i am getting to the point where i don't want to accept what other people write about spirituality, i want to go by my own experience .

[1977]

that is not true...the Valentinian Gnostics believed that matter was not purposefully evil..but was a necessary evil for the development of the soul...other gnostic schools as you probably well know had different views.
Untrue, as Irenaeus actually raises this specific point against the Valentinians:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103106.htm
1. There being thus three kinds of substances, they declare of all that is material (which they also describe as being on the left hand) that it must of necessity perish, inasmuch as it is incapable of receiving any afflatus of incorruption. As to every animal existence (which they also denominate on the right hand), they hold that, inasmuch as it is a mean between the spiritual and the material, it passes to the side to which inclination draws it. Spiritual substance, again, they describe as having been sent forth for this end, that, being here united with that which is animal, it might assume shape, the two elements being simultaneously subjected to the same discipline. And this they declare to be the salt Matthew 5:13-14 and the light of the world. For the animal substance had need of training by means of the outward senses; and on this account they affirm that the world was created, as well as that the Saviour came to the animal substance (which was possessed of free-will), that He might secure for it salvation. For they affirm that He received the first-fruits of those whom He was to save [as follows], from Achamoth that which was spiritual, while He was invested by the Demiurge with the animal Christ, but was begirt by a [special] dispensation with a body endowed with an animal nature, yet constructed with unspeakable skill, so that it might be visible and tangible, and capable of enduring suffering. At the same time, they deny that He assumed anything material [into His nature], since indeed matter is incapable of salvation. They further hold that the consummation of all things will take place when all that is spiritual has been formed and perfected by Gnosis (knowledge); and by this they mean spiritual men who have attained to the perfect knowledge of God, and been initiated into these mysteries by Achamoth. And they represent themselves to be these persons.

[lizzy]

tannah.....re your vids........clever BUT......

I have a 'G'-string theory that regardless of 'spiritual heritage' we are either, duped or still open to the truth...and that is unique to them........but this guy wants us tamed and following UN protocol....GOD is being used for UN public relations here....

[tannah]

tannah.....re your vids........clever BUT......

I have a 'G'-string theory that regardless of 'spiritual heritage' we are either, duped or still open to the truth...and that is unique to them........but this guy wants us tamed and following UN protocol....GOD is being used for UN public relations here....

What I take from the experience of having come accross this site is the usual "had a vision", "got told stuff" "let's start a religion". That's a usual pattern. As far as patterns go, I like what I read, without getting to analytical. I happen to think people are good at the core of being, I don't agree with this so called "original sin", and I'm not surprised the bible is corrupt, which is obvious when one looks at the fruits it bears.

I'm with DWB actually. Do your own thing, there's nothing wrong with that at all. Doing someone else's thing can rob you of any personal meaning and experience. That doesn't mean not having an open ear to things around.

[tannah]

Untrue, as Irenaeus actually raises this specific point against the Valentinians:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103106.htm
1. There being thus three kinds of substances, they declare of all that is material (which they also describe as being on the left hand) that it must of necessity perish, inasmuch as it is incapable of receiving any afflatus of incorruption. As to every animal existence (which they also denominate on the right hand), they hold that, inasmuch as it is a mean between the spiritual and the material, it passes to the side to which inclination draws it. Spiritual substance, again, they describe as having been sent forth for this end, that, being here united with that which is animal, it might assume shape, the two elements being simultaneously subjected to the same discipline. And this they declare to be the salt Matthew 5:13-14 and the light of the world. For the animal substance had need of training by means of the outward senses; and on this account they affirm that the world was created, as well as that the Saviour came to the animal substance (which was possessed of free-will), that He might secure for it salvation. For they affirm that He received the first-fruits of those whom He was to save [as follows], from Achamoth that which was spiritual, while He was invested by the Demiurge with the animal Christ, but was begirt by a [special] dispensation with a body endowed with an animal nature, yet constructed with unspeakable skill, so that it might be visible and tangible, and capable of enduring suffering. At the same time, they deny that He assumed anything material [into His nature], since indeed matter is incapable of salvation. They further hold that the consummation of all things will take place when all that is spiritual has been formed and perfected by Gnosis (knowledge); and by this they mean spiritual men who have attained to the perfect knowledge of God, and been initiated into these mysteries by Achamoth. And they represent themselves to be these persons.

This is untrue. Every step of a material body's journey through duality has the imprint of the neutral centre and non-dual aspect. Therefore this whole idea of salvation is a misrepresentation of what is, which is within all things.

[phildee3]

Credo of the True Gnostic Church



That, in itself, is an oxymoron.

Gnosis is essentially an inner revelation.

Creeds and dogma are of the exoteric, doctrinal sects.

[1977]

This is untrue. Every step of a material body's journey through duality has the imprint of the neutral centre and non-dual aspect. Therefore this whole idea of salvation is a misrepresentation of what is, which is within all things.
This is what they believed. You don't need to live your life by it.

[danceswithbunnies]

Untrue, as Irenaeus actually raises this specific point against the Valentinians:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103106.htm
1. There being thus three kinds of substances, they declare of all that is material (which they also describe as being on the left hand) that it must of necessity perish, inasmuch as it is incapable of receiving any afflatus of incorruption. As to every animal existence (which they also denominate on the right hand), they hold that, inasmuch as it is a mean between the spiritual and the material, it passes to the side to which inclination draws it. Spiritual substance, again, they describe as having been sent forth for this end, that, being here united with that which is animal, it might assume shape, the two elements being simultaneously subjected to the same discipline. And this they declare to be the salt Matthew 5:13-14 and the light of the world. For the animal substance had need of training by means of the outward senses; and on this account they affirm that the world was created, as well as that the Saviour came to the animal substance (which was possessed of free-will), that He might secure for it salvation. For they affirm that He received the first-fruits of those whom He was to save [as follows], from Achamoth that which was spiritual, while He was invested by the Demiurge with the animal Christ, but was begirt by a [special] dispensation with a body endowed with an animal nature, yet constructed with unspeakable skill, so that it might be visible and tangible, and capable of enduring suffering. At the same time, they deny that He assumed anything material [into His nature], since indeed matter is incapable of salvation. They further hold that the consummation of all things will take place when all that is spiritual has been formed and perfected by Gnosis (knowledge); and by this they mean spiritual men who have attained to the perfect knowledge of God, and been initiated into these mysteries by Achamoth. And they represent themselves to be these persons.

I am not going to argue with you about this, because i am sick today...
But...i just do want to say that there is a difference between evil by design and evil by error (sin). Which are two different views of matter: evil by design, or evil by default via mistake.

There is also a huge difference between willful ignorance which is stupidity and can be considered evil on the level of intellect, and ignorance by error (sin).

It appears that Adam Kadmon is the demiurge, but again there are many differing views about the demiurge amongst gnostics.
(for instance modern day masons according to ancient philosophy of Manly p. hall, believe that the evil as the material universe is a necessary ingredient but is not intentionally evil in and of itself)

Yes they are saying there is no salvation in matter..but that does not follow that matter is itself evil by design or intent..

I am aware however that there were groups of gnostics who viewed the material universe as deliberately evil...and its creator the demiurge as satan who deliberately trapped the sons of god, the sparks of the infinite in this material universe because he (the demiurge) could not create spirit to animate the flawed universe he brought into being.

Now, i may have called those gnostics in my post ,the valinitians, incorrectly, not sure.
But i am aware there are many different gnostic schools...i usually recall their ideas but perhaps not their names.

(BTW...i would not be quick to trust what Iraneus says...The Four accepted Gospels turned up and are first mentioned in his time, many think he wrote them himself...i believe i read somewhere that he was reported to be a liar, but that would be difficult to apprehend given the ENORMOUS amount of back-editing that was done on the pre-nicene father's writings..

My opinions are coming in part from perusing The Gnostic Bible:

Amazon.com: The Gnostic Bible: Revised and Expanded Edition (9781590306314): Willis Barnstone, Marvin Meyer: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ALH6pvGiL.@@AMEPARAM@@51ALH6pvGiL

)

[phildee3]

It appears that Adam Kadmon is the demiurge,



The demiurge (aka YHVH - the Jewish creator-god) is more like an emanation of Adam Kadmon, imo.

More accurately, Adam Kadmon is YV, so I suppose you could see YHVH as an evolution of YV, but since this "happened" before time was, how could that be?

Evolution takes time;
"emanation" does not.

[danceswithbunnies]

The demiurge (aka YHVH - the Jewish creator-god) is more like an emanation of Adam Kadmon, imo.

More accurately, Adam Kadmon is YV, so I suppose you could see YHVH as an evolution of YV, but since this "happened" before time was, how could that be?

Evolution takes time;
"emanation" does not.

I guess it depends on the system.
Have seen ones where YHVH is Adam Kadmon
The YHVH is the Body of Adam Kadmon..

http://www.messianicart.com/images/adamkadmonname.jpg

And others where the YHVH is just an emanation, can't remember think Israel Regardie's system is like that.

could be the difference between jewish and wasp kaballah though.

Some versions have different levels each with its own tree of life within it..ashiya , bereshith, etc (going by memory here)

While kaballah makes for interesting reading, it contradicts my experiences,so i choose to ignore it.

[delamo1999]

Haven't checked out the rest of this site, but quite like what I've read so far.


21. Sexual expression between loving couples is important to a sense of spiritual fulfillment and well-beingness. And whenever such sexual expressions are rooted in love, respect, and mutual consent, there is no sin. We believe that a healthy sexual lust between loving couples is not evidence of a sinful and degenerate nature, but rather the wholesome expression of one’s eagerness to embrace life, love and sweet communion. As true Gnostics, we believe that to be truly and fully spiritual, we must be fully sexual.


I am assuming they are refering to heterosexual couples only?

:confused:

[tannah]

21. Sexual expression between loving couples is important to a sense of spiritual fulfillment and well-beingness. And whenever such sexual expressions are rooted in love, respect, and mutual consent, there is no sin. We believe that a healthy sexual lust between loving couples is not evidence of a sinful and degenerate nature, but rather the wholesome expression of one’s eagerness to embrace life, love and sweet communion. As true Gnostics, we believe that to be truly and fully spiritual, we must be fully sexual.


I am assuming they are refering to heterosexual couples only?

:confused:


I don't know their stance on that. I always say that if I'm prepared to bop to Bohemian Rhapsody, then I don't mind homosexuals falling in love. It's just a candle in the wind.

Plus, I'm glad you brought this particular one up, coz I'm not actually sure I personally agree with the last sentence. Although, again, each to their own.

[phildee3]

I guess it depends on the system.
Have seen ones where YHVH is Adam Kadmon
The YHVH is the Body of Adam Kadmon..

http://www.messianicart.com/images/adamkadmonname.jpg

And others where the YHVH is just an emanation, can't remember think Israel Regardie's system is like that.

could be the difference between jewish and wasp kaballah though.

Some versions have different levels each with its own tree of life within it..ashiya , bereshith, etc (going by memory here)

While kaballah makes for interesting reading, it contradicts my experiences,so i choose to ignore it.



But if there are contradictory kabbalistic systems, then one of them must be consistant with your experiences.

Your phrase "...just an emanation" is telling. It suggests that you consider the system which views YHVH to be an emanaton to be inferior.

I don't.
I find it to be the original and true one - consistant with my experiences. I'm sure it is the one which you would find consistant with yours too.

[antihypnosis]

LoL, if want to believe that, its OK.
However, calling it Gnostic is dis info.

This has nothing to do with true Gnostic Truths, this is actually pretty lame, to say the least.

[phildee3]

LoL, if want to believe that, its OK.
However, calling it Gnostic is dis info.

This has nothing to do with true Gnostic Truths, this is actually pretty lame, to say the least.



Quite.
Nobody can teach gnosis -

except gnosis itself.

[tannah]

LoL, if want to believe that, its OK.
However, calling it Gnostic is dis info.

This has nothing to do with true Gnostic Truths, this is actually pretty lame, to say the least.

Haven't you noticed, that when you take a step back, most things are pretty lame? I've not met with a man-made God and system that I would say is the way. And, as what we have is man-made, IT might be just around the corner but IT certainly hasn't been run into yet.

This guy is one of two that I know who claim visions of God, and they are two of many that have had such an experience. And they contradict in many cases. When all is said and done these experiences and visions originate from our own sub-conscious. And I won't even go into the dreams I've had regarding Jesus, or the Anima Sancta, nor the synchs in life that convince me at that time that there is spiritual activity carryng on. Although I'd rather listen to my own dream where Jesus tells me "there isn't one who will be lost to the kingdom", than freak out about a vicious Jehovah casting 90% of humanity into eternal damnation.

[danceswithbunnies]

But if there are contradictory kabbalistic systems, then one of them must be consistant with your experiences.

Your phrase "...just an emanation" is telling. It suggests that you consider the system which views YHVH to be an emanaton to be inferior.

I don't.
I find it to be the original and true one - consistant with my experiences. I'm sure it is the one which you would find consistant with yours too.


In actuality, i consider any system inferior.
Systems usually turn into mental prisons.

"Just an emmanation" or "the whole enchilada", are concepts, and as far as i am concerned, experience and creativity take precedence over something someone wrote in a book , or what some kaballist locked up in mental machinations inside his own skull, said.


Why would i want to find a system that is consistent with my experiences?
I have read through and discarded numerous "systems"...

Why not create my/your own way?

[phildee3]

In actuality, i consider any system inferior.



Inferior to what? :confused:



Why not create my/your own way?



What??

Another system!! :eek:


Seriously, though - any "way" is a system.
True gnosis comes from within, - not by finding a "way" (whether it's your own or someone else's) but by being (passive, not active).

[antihypnosis]

Haven't you noticed, that when you take a step back, most things are pretty lame? I've not met with a man-made God and system that I would say is the way. And, as what we have is man-made, IT might be just around the corner but IT certainly hasn't been run into yet.

This guy is one of two that I know who claim visions of God, and they are two of many that have had such an experience. And they contradict in many cases. When all is said and done these experiences and visions originate from our own sub-conscious. And I won't even go into the dreams I've had regarding Jesus, or the Anima Sancta, nor the synchs in life that convince me at that time that there is spiritual activity carryng on. Although I'd rather listen to my own dream where Jesus tells me "there isn't one who will be lost to the kingdom", than freak out about a vicious Jehovah casting 90% of humanity into eternal damnation.


Listen to whatever suits you, I didn't mean to judge your beliefs.

What I'm saying is that this is not real Gnostic Truth, that's all. Besides, real Gnostics would never start a church or anything like that.


If you want to read some real Gnostic truth check this site out, its as close to truth as I've found on the internet:
http://www.xeeatwelve.net/

However, I do believe you have do start searching within too, not just read about it, but that's just my opinion.

[bridge57]

Hi All-

I am a member of the True Gnostic Church and wanted to answer the question about what I believe the Song of God says about homosexuality. Here ya go...

Contrary to the Bible, according to the Song of God, homosexuality is neither sinful nor degenerate. It is actually a method used by God to help their children learn, grow, and develop a deeper understanding and compassion for the opposite gender (see 2nd Endowment 4:37-55). The Song of God states that the problem related to this area is not with the homosexual, but is actually found with the persons that judge and condemn homosexuality based on their prejudicial belief systems.

"Restrain therefore, my children, such judgments as others would lay against the homosexual; for they judge most harshly the things they know not of; being in themselves empty of God; possessing neither understanding nor wisdom, being in themselves without mercy or consideration for the ways of others."
~2nd Endowment 4:53

The Song of God has many radical stances on various acts that most other religions consider sinful. The Song of God even goes as far as to suggest that all the Gods have the capacity for sin and that this capacity is necessary for for true empathy and compassion as well as to avoid the pitfalls of the doctrine of perfection (i.e. judgement, shame, guilt, control, etc.). Sin according to the Song of God are acts of inhumanity and the rest is generally vice and impropriety that slows our rate of transformation and progression, but is not considered "sin."

I'm really interested to see the interface between David Icke's beliefs and what the Song of God purports. I think that it has a lot with how you interpret it, but I can see some interesting overlaps.

Hope this helps,

David

[tannah]

Listen to whatever suits you, I didn't mean to judge your beliefs.

What I'm saying is that this is not real Gnostic Truth, that's all. Besides, real Gnostics would never start a church or anything like that.


If you want to read some real Gnostic truth check this site out, its as close to truth as I've found on the internet:
http://www.xeeatwelve.net/

However, I do believe you have do start searching within too, not just read about it, but that's just my opinion.

Not real gnostic truth? You mean there's unreal truth too?! Joke.:D

Ok, I haven't checked out this gnostic church dude fully, but obviously people here have as they have already given it the "disinfo" label. Very quick work guys.:D

I haven't actually noticed a church of any kind. Funny, maybe this guy means a church in a different context? Where's the buidling this guy is inviting you to, and to relate to? Or maybe he means humanity is the church? Seems that way when one reads the very first line in the creedy bit:

1. The only proper religion for mankind is humanity itself

I still stand by the fact that I liked what I read at the time of sending. Go back over the first two posts, and tell me what you don't agree with.

Thanks for the link. Why is this Amitakh guy a real gnostic truther, as opposed to this other guy being disinfo? I don't quite get it.

I've been through quite a bit of gnostic type text throughout the years. I lean more toward that than other religious doctrines. But much to the shock of christians, I actually think I am very happy with my inner link to God.

Whilst I agree with some of what this particular "true gnostic church" dude says, it's also another cause to chuckle. And I quite like how he chuckles too. I'm chuckling because he's a little too convinced he's found the right way. Haven't we all eh? Isn't that the idea of being a gnostic? Inner revelation. Why would I want second hand experiences?

So I'm with you on that last sentence of yours. With a proviso that it isn't only priceless truth we find when we search within. It is quite often priceless BS as well. That's the nature of the subjective life and its insular games.
It's from within that we have dug out the notions of devils and eternal damnation/hell, to name two priceless bits of BS.

[tannah]

Hi All-

I am a member of the True Gnostic Church and wanted to answer the question about what I believe the Song of God says about homosexuality. Here ya go...

Contrary to the Bible, according to the Song of God, homosexuality is neither sinful nor degenerate. It is actually a method used by God to help their children learn, grow, and develop a deeper understanding and compassion for the opposite gender (see 2nd Endowment 4:37-55). The Song of God states that the problem related to this area is not with the homosexual, but is actually found with the persons that judge and condemn homosexuality based on their prejudicial belief systems.

"Restrain therefore, my children, such judgments as others would lay against the homosexual; for they judge most harshly the things they know not of; being in themselves empty of God; possessing neither understanding nor wisdom, being in themselves without mercy or consideration for the ways of others."
~2nd Endowment 4:53

The Song of God has many radical stances on various acts that most other religions consider sinful. The Song of God even goes as far as to suggest that all the Gods have the capacity for sin and that this capacity is necessary for for true empathy and compassion as well as to avoid the pitfalls of the doctrine of perfection (i.e. judgement, shame, guilt, control, etc.). Sin according to the Song of God are acts of inhumanity and the rest is generally vice and impropriety that slows our rate of transformation and progression, but is not considered "sin."

I'm really interested to see the interface between David Icke's beliefs and what the Song of God purports. I think that it has a lot with how you interpret it, but I can see some interesting overlaps.

Hope this helps,

David

It's clear that homosexuals have contributed many positive things in life, and that one shouldn't rely on their sexual orientation when it comes to the idea of any positive contribution as such. A child wouldn't undertsand whether it is a homosexual or a heterosexual that has pushed him on the swing and made him happy.

There probably are overlaps between your angle, the song of God, and David Icke. I'm not a church building visitor myself, but I did like most of what I read in your creed.

So you do have a church building called "true gnostic church"? Or do you meet as groups round each other's houses?

[antihypnosis]

Not real gnostic truth? You mean there's unreal truth too?! Joke.:D

Ok, I haven't checked out this gnostic church dude fully, but obviously people here have as they have already given it the "disinfo" label. Very quick work guys.:D

I haven't actually noticed a church of any kind. Funny, maybe this guy means a church in a different context? Where's the buidling this guy is inviting you to, and to relate to? Or maybe he means humanity is the church? Seems that way when one reads the very first line in the creedy bit:



I still stand by the fact that I liked what I read at the time of sending. Go back over the first two posts, and tell me what you don't agree with.

Thanks for the link. Why is this Amitakh guy a real gnostic truther, as opposed to this other guy being disinfo? I don't quite get it.

I've been through quite a bit of gnostic type text throughout the years. I lean more toward that than other religious doctrines. But much to the shock of christians, I actually think I am very happy with my inner link to God.

Whilst I agree with some of what this particular "true gnostic church" dude says, it's also another cause to chuckle. And I quite like how he chuckles too. I'm chuckling because he's a little too convinced he's found the right way. Haven't we all eh? Isn't that the idea of being a gnostic? Inner revelation. Why would I want second hand experiences?

So I'm with you on that last sentence of yours. With a proviso that it isn't only priceless truth we find when we search within. It is quite often priceless BS as well. That's the nature of the subjective life and its insular games.
It's from within that we have dug out the notions of devils and eternal damnation/hell, to name two priceless bits of BS.


Yeah, I agree. Within, isn't only truth, there is a lot of untruth too. That's only because we aren't "one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively". There are 2 forces in this world "good" & "evil or "light & "dark" or whatever. So when Darkness masquerades as light, its pretty hard for us to differentiate because we aren't accustomed to light, so darkness (or false-light) will be very convincing to be THE light. For an example, the oneness, that many people including myself have experienced many times, is in fact, false-light disguised as true-light, because apparently, we aren't one.

I labeled it not Gnostc, because never would a real sincere Gnostic who doesn't want to dis inform, fall into the trap of equality, for an example, in his writings. That's why I'm telling you that this guy probably wants to misdirect people from Gnosticism, by labeling himself a Gnostic, though his writings have nothing to do with Gnosticism. He could have called it anything else and I wouldn't have labeled him anything, he can write whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't offend anyone else...if that makes sense.

Btw there is a very good e-book talking about how we created the devil, by Amitakh also on the site, I think its called "Personal Devil"...check it out.

I really have no answer as to why Amitakh (she's a woman btw) is truth and the others aren't. Except that she fills the holes in my conclusions and her words "feel" right, not the feelings we experience everyday, but rather like I'm glued to the screen and her words are shinning on my monitor, the energy of truth, i suppose.

I can't really explain , but that's why I sent you the link so you can see for yourself, if it works for you then go ahead and dig deeper, if not just leave it and go on.
Though at first I was a little skeptic, because she was destroying all my defense mechanisms that held me from reaching truth, but after a short while I saw the light, and I haven't felt better since I was born in this body. But that's just me.

[bridge57]

Hi All-

Tannah... I love your quote of "Ok, I haven't checked out this gnostic church dude fully, but obviously people here have as they have already given it the "disinfo" label. Very quick work guys." It's been amazing to me how quickly people always find any sliver that disagrees with their "TRUTH" and then label that sliver and everything connected with it as wrong. Fortunately, this discussion hasn't been as negative as others forums that I've seen on other sites. A friend of mine calls the "intellectuals" that tear apart everyone elses beliefs in gnosticism as gnow-it-alls. I really appreciate your openness of a number of you to exploring if there is actually something valid and useful in the teachings. I've been studying with him for three years and the teachings work very well for me. Unlike many self-proclaimed gnostics,I don't claim to have enough clarity within myself to tap in clearly to source to the point that I don't need the assistance of others who have been down their own gnostic rabbit hole. I believe that it is a very personal journey, but in many ways it can be shared - learning from other people's successes and mis-steps. Many times, what I find is that people aren't necessarily as much interested in the higher truths as much as that they are looking for something that tells them that their current beliefs are right. I'm not suggesting to agree with me or not, I'm just encouraging others to suspend judgement temporarily to see if there is something valuable for them with the teachings. It also makes for a much more interesting discussion than "Well it disagrees with traditional teachings and my current beliefs so it must be wrong."

I'm not well versed with David Icke's teachings, but it seems like there is tussle going on between various extra-terrestrial races on our home turf. If this is the case, isn't it quite possible for one of the ET groups to present themselves to a highly intelligent and highly motivated man who would spread their message of love, light, and liberation? Isn't it possible that they could present themselves in human form and present a very high level of knowledge (i.e. gnosis) that could assist and empower the metaphysical and sociological evolution of our species? Seems plausible to me. Could this be the man? Could he be one of many at this time? Time will tell.

The video of him that was released today is called "The Necessity of Doubt." You won't find many religious belief systems actively encouraging people to have healthy doubt and to think for themselves. I'd encourage you to give it a view and see if he is different in his approach to spirituality and personal empowerment. He also goes over the importance of applying logic, reason, and the laws of intelligent thought to spirituality. Here's the video and study guide (http://thesongofgod.com/song_of_god/studyguide.html) explaining how to think intelligently. There is always a fine line between skepticism and pessimism.

He also points out where he believes that gnostic schools of the past have missed and distorted the message. This is outlined here (http://thesongofgod.com/basic_beliefs/what-is-a-true-gnostic.html).

I've also been working on a FAQ page that can be found here (http://thesongofgod.wetpaint.com/page/Song+of+God+FAQs*).

Here are the questions that it answers:

What/who is God?

What is God’s purpose and how does humanity fit into it?

How can humanity be a religion?

What does the Song of God say about:


Premarital Sex
Promiscuity
Abortion
Homosexuality
Smoking, drinking, and drugs
Birth control
Death penalty
Prayer in schools
Ho
w does Azrael and the SOG define sin and evil?

How does God deal with sin and sinners?

How can we know if the Song of God is divinely inspired?

How do you know Azrael is a sane man who meets with God?

Is the Song of God the only way to God?

What are your core beliefs?

How do you know what you believe is correct?

You call yourselves True Gnostics, can you explain what makes your belief “true?”

Do you believe that all of the teachings of the Bible are wrong and hurtful?

Is the Song of God based on the history of Judeo-Christianity?

It seems like Azrael has just taken the best out of all other religions and put them into one book.

If Yeshua is the Galilean and you use very similar teachings to Jesus Christ of the New Testament, then aren't you just teaching another form of Christianity?

Did Yeshua die for our sins?

Does the True Gnostic Church believe in the second coming, the apocalypse, end times, etc.?

Does the Song of God support polygamy?

Is the True Gnostic Church connected to the LDS church?

Does the True Gnostic Church perform same-sex marriages?

Do we have guardian angels?

Can I make a donation to your church?

How can I get more involved with the Song of God, connect with likeminded people, and/or join the True Gnostic Church?

[phildee3]

Boise, Idaho, is a major mind-control centre!!

[tannah]

Yeah, I agree. Within, isn't only truth, there is a lot of untruth too. That's only because we aren't "one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively". There are 2 forces in this world "good" & "evil or "light & "dark" or whatever. So when Darkness masquerades as light, its pretty hard for us to differentiate because we aren't accustomed to light, so darkness (or false-light) will be very convincing to be THE light. For an example, the oneness, that many people including myself have experienced many times, is in fact, false-light disguised as true-light, because apparently, we aren't one.

I labeled it not Gnostc, because never would a real sincere Gnostic who doesn't want to dis inform, fall into the trap of equality, for an example, in his writings. That's why I'm telling you that this guy probably wants to misdirect people from Gnosticism, by labeling himself a Gnostic, though his writings have nothing to do with Gnosticism. He could have called it anything else and I wouldn't have labeled him anything, he can write whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't offend anyone else...if that makes sense.

Btw there is a very good e-book talking about how we created the devil, by Amitakh also on the site, I think its called "Personal Devil"...check it out.

I really have no answer as to why Amitakh (she's a woman btw) is truth and the others aren't. Except that she fills the holes in my conclusions and her words "feel" right, not the feelings we experience everyday, but rather like I'm glued to the screen and her words are shinning on my monitor, the energy of truth, i suppose.

I can't really explain , but that's why I sent you the link so you can see for yourself, if it works for you then go ahead and dig deeper, if not just leave it and go on.
Though at first I was a little skeptic, because she was destroying all my defense mechanisms that held me from reaching truth, but after a short while I saw the light, and I haven't felt better since I was born in this body. But that's just me.

All I can say is that, for me, the purpose of Gnosis is to discover/learn how to take on what I call the "Christ Body", the incorruptible non-dual existence.
The state of Being is better than the state of juggling knowledge and text in one's brain.

And I also know that if I were to discover the method of taking on the Christ Body, no one would be in a position to want to hear how (I can already hear the so called christian elements shouting blasphemy). We can share any particular angle and path in life, but the final matter is a personal thing. Again, I really can't forsee a mass ascension. It only makes sense when I think of a spirit walking its path, and finally being ready for another resonant "level". When the spirit is ready, it will ask, and it will be given the insight gradually.

Thanks for the link. Got a few things on today, so will go to it later.

[song_of_susannah]

Yeah, I agree. Within, isn't only truth, there is a lot of untruth too. That's only because we aren't "one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively". There are 2 forces in this world "good" & "evil or "light & "dark" or whatever. So when Darkness masquerades as light, its pretty hard for us to differentiate because we aren't accustomed to light, so darkness (or false-light) will be very convincing to be THE light. For an example, the oneness, that many people including myself have experienced many times, is in fact, false-light disguised as true-light, because apparently, we aren't one.

I labeled it not Gnostc, because never would a real sincere Gnostic who doesn't want to dis inform, fall into the trap of equality, for an example, in his writings. That's why I'm telling you that this guy probably wants to misdirect people from Gnosticism, by labeling himself a Gnostic, though his writings have nothing to do with Gnosticism. He could have called it anything else and I wouldn't have labeled him anything, he can write whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't offend anyone else...if that makes sense.

Btw there is a very good e-book talking about how we created the devil, by Amitakh also on the site, I think its called "Personal Devil"...check it out.

I really have no answer as to why Amitakh (she's a woman btw) is truth and the others aren't. Except that she fills the holes in my conclusions and her words "feel" right, not the feelings we experience everyday, but rather like I'm glued to the screen and her words are shinning on my monitor, the energy of truth, i suppose.

I can't really explain , but that's why I sent you the link so you can see for yourself, if it works for you then go ahead and dig deeper, if not just leave it and go on.
Though at first I was a little skeptic, because she was destroying all my defense mechanisms that held me from reaching truth, but after a short while I saw the light, and I haven't felt better since I was born in this body. But that's just me.



Hello Antihypnosis :)

Gnosis along with Inner Nous is an invaluable gift.

Very few Beings will respond to Amitakh's energy, and that is not surprising epescially at this late stage in the game.

For eons the True Light has worked tirelessly to correct the Error and rescue True Light Beings from their material prisons.

You don't know why you respond, but you know you feel better and a Light has been shone on a previously dark and confusing 'reality'.

You respond because your Inner Being has recognized Truth.

At first the Truth is indeed shocking and overwhelming, but never the less eventually as the shock settles, there is a blossoming feeling of relief and understanding, that you have found 'Home' and indeed some very important answers to some very profound questions.

Gnosis without any exterior guidance can be a frustrating business, it can leave one with a strong sense of ill ease. Something is terribly wrong but without certain 'information' a person can be left open to seeking wrong answers to right questions.

The answer to 'who' Amitakh is, is within you :)

The Truth is often unpalatable to some, understandably so, tis a difficult thing, two Creations, one Light, one Dark.

Incidentally, it isn't necessary for Beings of Light to consciously 'know' who they are.

People will find their own paths.

The True Light Energy in Amitakh's posts will help sustain you, you are drawn for good reason.

Let any criticism, or derision, you may encounter when seeking Truth, roll off your back, it is of no consequence.

There are some good people here, although your 'beliefs' may not quite sync. :)

[rowan22]

Do you not just think that the creative force is more profound and more dynamically creative when its real essence is not resisted. And within that the process of balance that transforms seeming paradox into pure being?

A silent communion with that which is actually the case. The intrinsic unity and necessity of self acceptance which feels pain and suffering as stages on the way to joy?

[antihypnosis]

Hello Antihypnosis :)

Gnosis along with Inner Nous is an invaluable gift.

Very few Beings will respond to Amitakh's energy, and that is not surprising epescially at this late stage in the game.

For eons the True Light has worked tirelessly to correct the Error and rescue True Light Beings from their material prisons.

You don't know why you respond, but you know you feel better and a Light has been shone on a previously dark and confusing 'reality'.

You respond because your Inner Being has recognized Truth.

At first the Truth is indeed shocking and overwhelming, but never the less eventually as the shock settles, there is a blossoming feeling of relief and understanding, that you have found 'Home' and indeed some very important answers to some very profound questions.

Gnosis without any exterior guidance can be a frustrating business, it can leave one with a strong sense of ill ease. Something is terribly wrong but without certain 'information' a person can be left open to seeking wrong answers to right questions.

The answer to 'who' Amitakh is, is within you :)

The Truth is often unpalatable to some, understandably so, tis a difficult thing, two Creations, one Light, one Dark.

Incidentally, it isn't necessary for Beings of Light to consciously 'know' who they are.

People will find their own paths.

The True Light Energy in Amitakh's posts will help sustain you, you are drawn for good reason.

Let any criticism, or derision, you may encounter when seeking Truth, roll off your back, it is of no consequence.

There are some good people here, although your 'beliefs' may not quite sync. :)


Thanks a lot, you are a beautiful spirit...

I'm sure most people won't resonate, because either they aren't from the "True Creation" in the 1st place or are deluded by their programming.

I'm worried about the later...
I just try to do my part, maybe when I give them the links they could experience the revelation that I went through, if they didn't..then at least I tried.

I imagine, if I could help even just one more Spirit to know the truth and be liberated from this "unsolvable" trap...it will be the best thing I've ever done in my whole existence in this form.


Incidentally, it isn't necessary for Beings of Light to consciously 'know' who they are

However, this quote just made my day, Thank you. :)

[edelweiss pirate]

Although I'd rather listen to my own dream where Jesus tells me "there isn't one who will be lost to the kingdom"

That's a beautiful thought.:)

[zetetic0void]

5. This earth upon which we live is the very first from which God evolved. As a consequence, this world is known by those who believe as the World of the First Power.


I do not agree when religions claim to be the real "Truth" or only "True" anything.


I read those 'rules' ... this one in particular (although I stopped reading at this spot) seemed like a vast assumptions and one that does not mesh with likely statistical mathematics given the hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy and the hundreds of billions of galaxies in our "known Universe"(which may be only a spec of an even more huge Real Universe (assuming it's not infinite in dimensions and stars)



People who say the Earth is really the central location of "God" or some "Truth" are biased ... just as biased as some religion on some planet orbitting some star 400 light years away probably thinks the same thing ;-).

[tannah]

Thanks a lot, you are a beautiful spirit...

I'm sure most people won't resonate, because either they aren't from the "True Creation" in the 1st place or are deluded by their programming.

I'm worried about the later...
I just try to do my part, maybe when I give them the links they could experience the revelation that I went through, if they didn't..then at least I tried.

I imagine, if I could help even just one more Spirit to know the truth and be liberated from this "unsolvable" trap...it will be the best thing I've ever done in my whole existence in this form.



However, this quote just made my day, Thank you. :)

O dear.:)

Is that the "old true creation", the "new true creation" or the "all new truest of all creation"?

Earthlings. Gotta love 'em.

If I could get a BJ for all the times I've read people suggest their way is the true way, I'd have constant watery eyes.:D

What do you know about being liberated from this "unsolvable" trap? I'd be interested to see if it matches what I've been shown.

[tannah]

I do not agree when religions claim to be the real "Truth" or only "True" anything.


I read those 'rules' ... this one in particular (although I stopped reading at this spot) seemed like a vast assumptions and one that does not mesh with likely statistical mathematics given the hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy and the hundreds of billions of galaxies in our "known Universe"(which may be only a spec of an even more huge Real Universe (assuming it's not infinite in dimensions and stars)



People who say the Earth is really the central location of "God" or some "Truth" are biased ... just as biased as some religion on some planet orbitting some star 400 light years away probably thinks the same thing ;-).

I agree. The other post about the "revelation of Ares" is also by someone who claims that he was visited by Jesus for four years in the 1970's. I actually believe these experiences are real for these people. However, it is all conjured up by their own sub-conscious, IMO. Yet, true or not, it does give an insight into a person, and I must say Michel Potay is a groovy person too.

Even so, I've never been quick to label stuff as "info" and "dis-info". One would need the axis of truth in order to distinguish so clearly. And , as is often the case, some that shout "dis-info" end up believing in shadows themselves.

That's not to say there isn' an obvious element of deceit/dis-info circulating. David Icke's new newsletter brought one up today, about Griffin on the BBC's Newsnight.

[song_of_susannah]

Thanks a lot, you are a beautiful spirit...

I'm sure most people won't resonate, because either they aren't from the "True Creation" in the 1st place or are deluded by their programming.

I'm worried about the later...
I just try to do my part, maybe when I give them the links they could experience the revelation that I went through, if they didn't..then at least I tried.

I imagine, if I could help even just one more Spirit to know the truth and be liberated from this "unsolvable" trap...it will be the best thing I've ever done in my whole existence in this form.



However, this quote just made my day, Thank you. :)


My pleasure :)

[tannah]

Btw there is a very good e-book talking about how we created the devil, by Amitakh also on the site, I think its called "Personal Devil"...check it out.



Just checked out the page, and would like to highlight this:


We are now in the final stage of the Rescue Mission and Christ will soon gather all the viable True-Light particles and take them back Home. Those left behind are following Darkness' resistance to Divine Correction of the Error. Everyone and everything, including the Devil and Darkness Itself, are given the opportunity to accept the Correction. Unfortunately, Darkness and Its Devil have rejected the Correction and have lured many to follow them. Many have chosen Darkness as their God. Regrettably, most people have done just that.

http://www.xeeatwelve.net/articles/p_devil.html





It's the same mistake I see many religions make. But actually, the sine wave has a negative and a positive expression, and axis points where the neutral appears. In every manifest thing there comes a point where there is only stillness recaptured, one could say.

What this means is that the scenario that there are actual living things that will become seperated at a certain point, because of some refusal to accept the Light, is actually the wrong way round. What happens to every cycling manifestation is that it returns home, explores its experiences, and ventures back out from the still point to begin another cycle.

So, true, all is composed of sine waves at the very root. But in the sine wave is a representation of "nature's promise". It's the same promise "Jesus" said to me in a dream back in 1987-ish. Tramps and down and outs come past a group of children whom Jesus was speaking to. I was in that group, and Jesus said to us "see those? Not one will be lost to the kingdom". The tramps and down and outs represented spiritual poverty. And by 1989 I'd began the journey toward confirming the dream's promise for myself. The neutral aspect of the sine waves is the portal to still being. When a spirit disciplines itself to still the motion, it will achieve communion.

I am my own witness to the fact that all things return to the light. I have been shown in various ways, by studying cyclic phenomena, that this is written in the very heart of nature. No-one misses the train, it's impossible.

You mentioned "dis-info" I believe. Well, I believe that the paragraph I've quoted from the site is a prime example. It comes from not understanding the "other side". Generally, we have a one sided view of reality and illusion. But both these things have their "mirror" side, and the only way to capture the "story" is to expose that other side. The revelation it brings is an understanding for the individual spirit, of their journey and their destination.
The only real thing is the complete family. Everything else is part of the journey.

[antihypnosis]

It's the same mistake I see many religions make. But actually, the sine wave has a negative and a positive expression, and axis points where the neutral appears. In every manifest thing there comes a point where there is only stillness recaptured, one could say.

What this means is that the scenario that there are actual living things that will become seperated at a certain point, because of some refusal to accept the Light, is actually the wrong way round. What happens to every cycling manifestation is that it returns home, explores its experiences, and ventures back out from the still point to begin another cycle.


This is an opinion, not a fact.




So, true, all is composed of sine waves at the very root. But in the sine wave is a representation of "nature's promise". It's the same promise "Jesus" said to me in a dream back in 1987-ish. Tramps and down and outs come past a group of children whom Jesus was speaking to. I was in that group, and Jesus said to us "see those? Not one will be lost to the kingdom". The tramps and down and outs represented spiritual poverty. And by 1989 I'd began the journey toward confirming the dream's promise for myself. The neutral aspect of the sine waves is the portal to still being. When a spirit disciplines itself to still the motion, it will achieve communion.

"It is no wonder so many "demons" and "robots" claim to channel Jesus and to have visions of him. Why would Jesus of the Light utter things as claimed by the channellers which are contradictory to what Jesus stands for? These channellers can only get responses from phantoms that they have "created" or were "created" by mischievous beings in the astral. Phantoms which attract demonic astral beings into disguising as Jesus do so because they know that the real Jesus is not the "god" of their religion. "

http://www.xeeatwelve.net/articles/jesus_warrior.htm


I am my own witness to the fact that all things return to the light. I have been shown in various ways, by studying cyclic phenomena, that this is written in the very heart of nature. No-one misses the train, it's impossible.


I agree, its in the very heart of nature which is an evil creation.


You mentioned "dis-info" I believe. Well, I believe that the paragraph I've quoted from the site is a prime example.

Not really, no.


The only real thing is the complete family. Everything else is part of the journey.

That's right, the complete family. Not other families.



Anyway, if my opinion doesn't mean much to you, then don't bother with it. I might be wrong too, its just what I believe in this moment and I don't see any end coming to this opinion, so there's really no point in trying to open up my mind or convince me, when I'm a closed-minded a-hole! :)

[tannah]

[QUOTE]This is an opinion, not a fact.

Welcome to reality. Also, it all depends what information one has at their disposal, as to what opinion they have.


"It is no wonder so many "demons" and "robots" claim to channel Jesus and to have visions of him. Why would Jesus of the Light utter things as claimed by the channellers which are contradictory to what Jesus stands for? These channellers can only get responses from phantoms that they have "created" or were "created" by mischievous beings in the astral. Phantoms which attract demonic astral beings into disguising as Jesus do so because they know that the real Jesus is not the "god" of their religion. "


So who mentioned channelling dearly beloved? I take my dreams with deep interest. And hey, I reallly reallly reallly really like what my dream told me, and I live my life and do my searching based on that. And as an added bonus we live in a participatory universe. Work it out.



I agree, its in the very heart of nature which is an evil creation.


That, to me, is an idiotic statement, based on no more than conditioned learned response. And again, it depends on the information at ones disposal.


Not really, no.

Well I can see why you'd think the paragraph I quoted from the site isn't mistaken. In my awareness it is a typical mistake, and one that is destined to be exposed as such.


That's right, the complete family. Not other families.

Didn't realize you were this kinda person. Ok elitist, you've been hipnotized to believe you're special, good for you.:)


Anyway, if my opinion doesn't mean much to you, then don't bother with it. I might be wrong too, its just what I believe in this moment and I don't see any end coming to this opinion, so there's really no point in trying to open up my mind or convince me, when I'm a closed-minded a-hole! :)


My reaction to your opinion is my business, and you are perfectly free to express whatever you wish. You either would like to carry on testing your own beliefs agaisnt mine, or we can quit. Either way, as you may have gathered from what I believe, it won't bring real seperation of spiritual destiny between us. I'd say hard luck man, you got me and I got you.;)

[antihypnosis]

[QUOTE=antihypnosis;1058379646]

Welcome to reality. Also, it all depends what information one has at their disposal, as to what opinion they have.




So who mentioned channelling dearly beloved? I take my dreams with deep interest. And hey, I reallly reallly reallly really like what my dream told me, and I live my life and do my searching based on that. And as an added bonus we live in a participatory universe. Work it out.




That, to me, is an idiotic statement, based on no more than conditioned learned response. And again, it depends on the information at ones disposal.




Well I can see why you'd think the paragraph I quoted from the site isn't mistaken. In my awareness it is a typical mistake, and one that is destined to be exposed as such.




Didn't realize you were this kinda person. Ok elitist, you've been hipnotized to believe you're special, good for you.:)





My reaction to your opinion is my business, and you are perfectly free to express whatever you wish. You either would like to carry on testing your own beliefs agaisnt mine, or we can quit. Either way, as you may have gathered from what I believe, it won't bring real seperation of spiritual destiny between us. I'd say hard luck man, you got me and I got you.;)


Okay, your point of view seems like a beautiful fairytale to me.

I think we aren't going anywhere with this argument, so let's rap it up.



may your spirit lead you truth...always.

[tannah]

Okay, your point of view seems like a beautiful fairytale to me.

I think we aren't going anywhere with this argument, so let's rap it up.

So you don't wish to place your own fairytale on the line? Fair enough.


may your spirit lead you truth...always.

And you paisano.

[dedicate]

Is Christianity a fairy tale? What is a fairy tale? A fariy tale is a made up story which children can relate to? I don't know if that is such a bad thing, but in the case of fairy tales, when one grows older one finds the fairy tale does not contain actual events, or events which could or would ever happen. Thus the stories of Cinderella and Jack and the Beanstalk are considered fairy tales.

In the context of Religion, it is not a good thing to have a mind like a child who will believe anything told of. -- ie children arrive via the stork, Santa rides a sleigh across the sky. So, I suppose, if one believes in things which would and could never happen, then.... fairy tale.

[tannah]

Is Christianity a fairy tale? What is a fairy tale? A fariy tale is a made up story which children can relate to? I don't know if that is such a bad thing, but in the case of fairy tales, when one grows older one finds the fairy tale does not contain actual events, or events which could or would ever happen. Thus the stories of Cinderella and Jack and the Beanstalk are considered fairy tales.

In the context of Religion, it is not a good thing to have a mind like a child who will believe anything told of. -- ie children arrive via the stork, Santa rides a sleigh across the sky. So, I suppose, if one believes in things which would and could never happen, then.... fairy tale.

Well God may be running a fairy tale competition!

My fairy tale consists of a God that is able to win over every wily little ego that emerges. In most cases it is easy for God to teach someone the universal way of light. In them difficult cases it will just require persistance.
I fink God can do it.:) In fact God has already done it, and it's up to us to synch our fairy tale with God's own.;) Time? There isn't any.

People always bring up people like Hitler, when trying to say that God can't help these people. I disagree.

[dedicate]

Within the context of endless time this may not be far from the truth at all.

Also, if one considers, All is Atman, then the worst which could happen is one could loose his evolution due to bad behavior, but would return to the source to begin again. This is not recommended as it took maybe 3 billion years to get to the human/self conscious/active/stage.-- and there are so many dangers on the way of falling behind. One does not want to loose even one step made in progress.-- in human terms it's called paying for the same real estate twice as being the best which could be done.

I dont subscribe to the idea of this world being a big play school. We all do these horrible things to each other and the world,, then after death we realize it was all for the fun of it; in reality we are not responsible for the evil done and taken part in; in the after life the abused slave and mean slave owner have a good laugh with each other. Somehow this is said to aid a higher evolution we are not aware of.. This would mean there is no reason for cultivating good?

[tannah]

Within the context of endless time this may not be far from the truth at all.

Also, if one considers, All is Atman, then the worst which could happen is one could loose his evolution due to bad behavior, but would return to the source to begin again. This is not recommended as it took maybe 3 billion years to get to the human/self conscious/active/stage.-- and there are so many dangers on the way of falling behind. One does not want to loose even one step made in progress.-- in human terms it's called paying for the same real estate twice as being the best which could be done.

I dont subscribe to the idea of this world being a big play school. We all do these horrible things to each other and the world,, then after death we realize it was all for the fun of it; in reality we are not responsible for the evil done and taken part in; in the after life the abused slave and mean slave owner have a good laugh with each other. Somehow this is said to aid a higher evolution we are not aware of.. This would mean there is no reason for cultivating good?

Luke warmness seems to be the "enemy" of progress. Sitting watching soaps on tv, for example! Being hot or cold seems to have the advantge. There is the example of the story of Paul, who was as cold as hell toward Jesus and his followers, then becomes red hot after having a vision.

And I see that in people who can be passionately nasty. I see in them the potential for being passionately compassionate! The worst position is burying the gold coin, as it's been told in a parable.

I agree with your last paragraph. There's nothing funny about watching kids with flies on their face looking like death warmed up, as if it's supposed to make us realize it isn't right, and we do something about it. The actions and policies that have created such a situation as famine must repay that imbalance somehow.

Although I must say that there have been occassions when the cruel nastiness of others has led to insights I'm very grateful for. But I put that down to the idea that illusion can't move from the place it was conceived, only reality can venture "forwards" and "upwards". And in that respect there is not one drop of reality that will be lost. We as spirits do have a spark of reality, so it's clear in my mind about the destiny of this spark, being who we really are.

[dedicate]

It could be true what you say about luke warm and hot. The fiery fundamentalist may come to the realization of his failed beliefs much sooner than the one who just accepts certain fundamentalist beliefs without much care. But "sooner" meaning hundreds of years from now as opposed to thousands? Better to know the truth of things right now. I think even Paul would agree it would have been better for everybody if he had just let the Christians be.

Evil can be transformed to good,, and one can be thankful for all the trouble in life. -- "Thank you for bringing this trouble on me. Now I have an oppertunity to repair the debt.".. The Buddha was giving a sermon and a man came forward and spat in his face. Gottama said, "Are you done?" and he later told his students that He himself owed this man a debt. Now it was repaid. Of course, that man would have done much better by cleaning out his heart of all hate, but that is another story.

And if you want to say all people are going to God, will find God. There is nothing wrong with that. I often practice the same behavior. If a person refuses to see weakness where weakness is seen, acknowledge poverty where poverty thrives, sickness where sickness is, then one can gain the power to transform the above forms. Just refuse to be negative about things.

If you want to believe all people are healthy, there is no poverty, there is no sickness, and all people do go to God, then, yes, you may be deluded and believing a fairy tale.

[tannah]

It could be true what you say about luke warm and hot. The fiery fundamentalist may come to the realization of his failed beliefs much sooner than the one who just accepts certain fundamentalist beliefs without much care. But "sooner" meaning hundreds of years from now as opposed to thousands? Better to know the truth of things right now. I think even Paul would agree it would have been better for everybody if he had just let the Christians be.

Evil can be transformed to good,, and one can be thankful for all the trouble in life. -- "Thank you for bringing this trouble on me. Now I have an oppertunity to repair the debt.".. The Buddha was giving a sermon and a man came forward and spat in his face. Gottama said, "Are you done?" and he later told his students that He himself owed this man a debt. Now it was repaid. Of course, that man would have done much better by cleaning out his heart of all hate, but that is another story.

And if you want to say all people are going to God, will find God. There is nothing wrong with that. I often practice the same behavior. If a person refuses to see weakness where weakness is seen, acknowledge poverty where poverty thrives, sickness where sickness is, then one can gain the power to transform the above forms. Just refuse to be negative about things.

If you want to believe all people are healthy, there is no poverty, there is no sickness, and all people do go to God, then, yes, you may be deluded and believing a fairy tale.

We are all influenced by the fairy tales of the past. A hard conditioning to shake off. Scientific advancement requires a refinement of the perceptions we acquire of a Creator. I hope it's not too off topic, but someone posted this on another forum. Can we really say the universe and life are an accident and without purpose?

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

I wouldn't, so this and other things show me we have a Creator. But the nature of this Creator has to reflect the scientific findings. Where can energy go? Can it really be banished somewhere outside of itself?

The universe is at least 14 billion years old, and life progressed in stages. Pantheism seems to be a possible procedure for consciousness to become fully alert within this aspect of creation. And as the photon doesn't experience death or time and space, any "command" given by a Creator happens instantly to the Creator. We, on the other hand, have a lowered frequency in many respects, yet it is the photon that gives us the sense of manifestation in this holographic like existence.

If God has a sight, like the photon, then there is no death, no sickness in Its sight. It merely communes with its own successful creative abilities. If we are evolving, it can only be toward our own subjective fruition of what God has commanded and experiences all along. God's "children" are perfect in Its sight, and we will understand ourselves to be too, because there is no other possible outcome.

[dedicate]

No-one is saying the universe is an accident and whithout purpose. It's the mind which says that. Scientist have said things are more complex than we could understand, yet we build a city, we can not build an arm or a leg or an eye. None of it is an accident. Careful planning and great care was taken in the building of all of these.


"If God has a sight, like the photon, then there is no death, no sickness in Its sight. It merely communes with its own successful creative abilities. If we are evolving, it can only be toward our own subjective fruition of what God has commanded and experiences all along. God's "children" are perfect in Its sight, and we will understand ourselves to be too, because there is no other possible outcome." --
What is this? Does God "have" a sight? God is sight. If there are no other possible outcomes then all things have to be the same with no division. No differance can be found or seen.

The Book of Revelation mentions the Two Witnesses of the Apocalypse. Chapter 11..

3. And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8. And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. KJV.

The Two Witnesses are God's sight.

[tannah]

No-one is saying the universe is an accident and whithout perpose. It's the mind which says that. Scientist have said things are more complex than we could understand, yet we build New York city, we can not build an arm or a leg or an eye. None of it is an accident. Careful planning and great care was taken in the building of all of these.


"If God has a sight, like the photon, then there is no death, no sickness in Its sight. It merely communes with its own successful creative abilities. If we are evolving, it can only be toward our own subjective fruition of what God has commanded and experiences all along. God's "children" are perfect in Its sight, and we will understand ourselves to be too, because there is no other possible outcome." --
What is this? Does God "have" a sight? God is sight. If there are no other possible outcomes then all things have to be the same with no division. No difference can be found or seen between hte good and the bad.

The Book of Revelation mentions the two witnesses of the Apocalypse.



The other outcomes don't exist in that "sight". There is no good or bad in that "sight". We think ourselves judgers of good and bad, not God. The book of revelations is just a fairy tale, and given enough time it can be manipulated to become manifest. That doesn't make it true.

Personally I don't think God is aware of any of the so called shit that's going down in these parts. It's up to us to eventually raise our game and get to where God is in the scheme of things. We have a homing beacon.

[dedicate]

The Two Witnesses are also God's voice. . A hidden 911 prophecy can be found in this Chapter of Rev., too. I guess that would mean New York City is Sodem and Egypt, land of many lusts and many gods?

God is not aware of what's happening here, because God is aware. If we were aware then we could be witness to God's awareness. If you do that, then as sure as 1+1=2, the beast which ascends out of the bottemless pit will make war with the 2, and overcome them and kill them. The examples are everywhere. Thomas More and Thomas Becket were the Two Witnesses of their time. The Kennedys also, for ours. The Black Americans had MLK and Malcolm.

So, why do you think the Powers that Be are making out like they are on the side of the ones they kill? Just so they can go on doing more of it. They are the Beast wich ascends out of the bottemless pit which kill the ones with God's vision and voice.

The rest you can just decide for yourself what it means.

[tannah]

The Two Witnesses are also God's voice. . A hidden 911 prophecy can be found in this Chapter of Rev., too. I guess that would mean New York City is Sodem and Egypt, land of many lusts and many gods?

God is not aware of what's happening here, because God is aware. If we were aware then we could be witness to God's awareness. If you do that, then as sure as 1+1=2, the beast which ascends out of the bottemless pit will make war with the 2, and overcome them and kill them. The examples are everywhere. Thomas More and Thomas Becket were the Two Witnesses of their time. The Kennedys also, for ours. The Black Americans had MLK and Malcolm.

So, why do you think the Powers that Be are making out like they are on the side of the ones they kill? Just so they can go on doing more of it. They are the Beast wich ascends out of the bottemless pit which kill the ones with God's vision and voice.

The rest you can just decide for yourself what it means.

Perhaps there is no 1+1=2. Maybe it's 1*1 = 1

Both reality and illusion has its God. But one God is always going to be an illusion. The God of illusion is sustained and made to be real by the power of suggestion and conditioning. The first divide is always called good and evil. It's the first illusion, and from it is built the history as we think we know it.

One could argue that three and a half days is the centre of seven, and the centre axis is the neutral centre from which the non-dual spirit exists. This is where life is. In the duality is mortality and illusion. It's no surprise that creatures who relate to their illusion of mortality will be visited with mishap.
It's the engrained fear that their house is built on that will attract pain and suffering. And it's also no surprise that people who can only relate to the illusion of mortality would find the idea of reality disturbing. That's why I don't think God is aware of illusion and its many manifestations from the product of ego.

So the PTB are "making out", that is, pretending, that is, illusion. And the bottomless pit from where it ascends is the pit of illusion. Yet, when cyclic events reach the neutral centre, only reality exists at that point. We are cycles within cycles and wheels within wheels, and when the universal neutral is reached only the real will survive. As illusion isn't "you", only the illusion you believed will not survive. The God of reality only creates real things, and real things is what it reaps.

[dedicate]

As you can see, I'm somewhat free with my understanding of things. The two witnesses are your own two eyes, the ying/yang and polarity of opposites, or even two actual humans. If you pin down the meaning of things, often one kills the life of it. So, 1+1= 2 or 3 or 1. But if you were to say, 1+1= blue, then I may wonder where you are coming from.

Were you not the person who said, "If one knows God, then one will sing and dance."? So what are you on about now? When a dancer or singer stops to think about what is next or what might be the next logical move, usually that person gets lost and breaks the flow. I'm not sure what you are saying here.

I guess I agree. It's sounds to me like you are describing people who are caught in the details.

"It's the engrained fear that their house is built on that will attract pain and suffering. And it's also no surprise that people who can only relate to the illusion of mortality would find the idea of reality disturbing. That's why I don't think God is aware of illusion and its many manifestations from the product of ego."--

What people? Why is it you are aware of the illusion and it's manifestations but God is not? Is illusion unreal? or is reality the illusion? What are you saying?

[tannah]

As you can see, I'm somewhat free with my understanding of things. The two witnesses are your own two eyes, the ying/yang and polarity of opposites, or even two actual humans. If you pin down the meaning of things, often one kills the life of it. So, 1+1= 2 or 3 or 1. But if you were to say, 1+1= blue, then I may wonder where you are coming from.


I agree that certain things exhibit meanings on more than one level.

The two opposites are in reality the one force, as Walter Russell, for example, shows in "the Universal One". The two eyes, therefore, are really one eye, and the picture is rather different. Marrying the masculine/feminine aspect results in a quite different aspect. That is the eye of God. It's not even an eye as we'd physically relate it.

Were you not the person who said, "If one knows God, then one will sing and dance."? So what are you on about now?

Yes, and?

When a dancer or singer stops to think about what is next or what might be the next logical move, usually that person gets lost and breaks the flow. I'm not sure what you are saying here.

I'd agree with that.


I guess I agree. It's sounds to me like you are describing people who are caught in the details.

"It's the engrained fear that their house is built on that will attract pain and suffering. And it's also no surprise that people who can only relate to the illusion of mortality would find the idea of reality disturbing. That's why I don't think God is aware of illusion and its many manifestations from the product of ego."--

What people? Why is it you are aware of the illusion and it's manifestations but God is not? Is illusion unreal? or is reality the illusion? What are you saying?

Well, you know, if I'm shown a way that I can relate to more, I'm always willing to shift. The question of what is God aware of is quite an important one to me. I don't subscribe to looking in the past and somehow thinking the ancients knew the truth about God. So I'm free to look at the picture
again and again. That's not to say one can't highlight past thinking, but one might be wiser to see that past thinking in the same light as in one's own mind nowadays, people trying to make sense of things.

So I say there is no illusion in God's "mind". There is only perfection and a Wholeness. If we, on the other hand, are journeying through a perceived duality, we are open to all the fruits of that duality. But from whichever angle one persues perception from, the result and remedy seems to be to take on non-duality if one wants to be united with God.

As for Revelations, I wonder what many people thought of the Roman empire at the time, and how revelations would make them feel about it relating to that empire, and that the end must be near. And I also wonder at which point in history one hasn't felt that their's is the time that God would "return".

What I've left behind is having to make the choice of which branch of Christianity I should adhere to, or which Muslim or any other religious belief I have to choose as the one. If I take the whole of it as an evolutionary step toward understanding, then I'm not worried about contradictions along the way. A part of me would love there to be a God as some kinda thing with a bodily form of its own, coming to tell off all the naughty people of the past.
But a bigger part of me nowadays doesn't see reality in that.

[dedicate]

Lot of food for thought there, and I have to run out the house just now.


"As for Revelations, I wonder what many people thought of the Roman empire at the time, and how revelations would make them feel about it relating to that empire, and that the end must be near. And I also wonder at which point in history one hasn't felt that their's is the time that God would "return"." ===

I look at the same thing from a different angle. I ask, "How many people know the times they live in?" Not many. Probably most people's view 1,000 years ago, was not much different than today's people's view.-- in other words, very few realize what is or what will be soon. I'm sure there will be lots of surprises for us all.

God can have a body. We don't know. And, if it were true I don't see how that should change your understanding of the universe at all. God can be ouside the Universe and the Universe at the same time... as long as you understand,, there is no outside or inside.

[primordialman]

5. This earth upon which we live is the very first from which God evolved. As a consequence, this world is known by those who believe as the World of the First Power.

6. The material world contains within its mortal, physical nature, the very essence and similitude of all things wondrous and eternal. Unlike the false Gnostics of ages past, we do not believe that the material world is evil.
These two points here are the reasons why your religion is that of modern secret socities FMS, etc. & exactly the reason why it and its spinoffs are the chosen religion of the Illuminists!.
In my view its completely shallow and worthlesss faith,& clearly a post modern exercise in revisionism of the original belief or philosophy of the original gnostic sects e.g cathars or marconites etc.. whom didnt even believe in the materialism period!.

[tannah]

These two points here are the reasons why your religion is that of modern secret socities FMS, etc. & exactly the reason why it and its spinoffs are the chosen religion of the Illuminists!.
In my view its completely shallow and worthlesss faith,& clearly a post modern exercise in revisionism of the original belief or philosophy of the original gnostic sects e.g cathars or marconites etc.. whom didnt even believe in the materialism period!.

Well, you know, the original BS and "the material world is evil" is more like an illuminati trick on the everyday human, as far as I'm concerned. Together with genocide boy Jehovah and the Son dance Bible kid Cheesus, I think man is right to keep moving on in hope of clearer light.

BTW, are you talking of my religion here?

I seriously think belief systems are pretty fucked up though, that's true. It's like the latter stages of madness descending on fruit cake IDs.:D

Ever seen that game "the weakest link"? It reminds me of how those that think they are the true Christians seem to think New Age belief of togetherness is satanic. In the game "weakest link", everyone has to vote someone else off, they can't vote themselves off. So I'm not surprised that a supposedly true Christian can't admit that their belief system is a bit of a twisted illusion and weak link.

Indeed, what is a supposed true gnostic anyway? And why was the old gnostic not a part of the illuminati smokescreen back then? WTF does anyone really know down here?

[primordialman]

Ever seen that game "the weakest link"? It reminds me of how those that think they are the true Christians seem to think New Age belief of togetherness is satanic. In the game "weakest link", everyone has to vote someone else off, they can't vote themselves off. So I'm not surprised that a supposedly true Christian can't admit that their belief system is a bit of a twisted illusion and weak link.
Well i dont know what you mean by TRUE christian however i like to think of my faith in christ as close to orthodox as possible.
However due to pluralism and relavtisim all post modern symptoms TRUE Christian or True Gnostic for that matter is really anyones guess in our age, i dont prefess objectivism just my own views on the matter like i have said before in this forum i do not intend to prosetylize simply defend or explain my own position just like anyone else!.:cool:

[primordialman]

Well, you know, the original BS and "the material world is evil" is more like an illuminati trick on the everyday human, as far as I'm concerned. Together with genocide boy Jehovah and the Son dance Bible kid Cheesus, I think man is right to keep moving on in hope of clearer light.
On the contrary the illuminists are all about materialising everything including spirituality. That is why they are so shallow and fake if i wanted an example of this i simply need to vist the local mainstream christian NWO sanctioned christian church, esp prosperity Gospel 3ic style.
I have a real problem with the world i live in, just like christ has, call it depression or suicidal if you like its true. Those in love with the world must by default be in love with the NWO must they not? They own & control the future!.:confused:

[tannah]

On the contrary the illuminists are all about materialising everything including spirituality. That is why they are so shallow and fake if i wanted an example of this i simply need to vist the local mainstream christian NWO sanctioned christian church, esp prosperity Gospel 3ic style.
I have a real problem with the world i live in, just like christ has, call it depression or suicidal if you like its true. Those in love with the world must by default be in love with the NWO must they not? They own & control the future!.:confused:

I'm in half agreement with you. The only difference is that I know a way to love the world and not fall for materialism and NWO. But if you mean "not of the world", then I would equate that as not of duality, but of a spiritual home.

I don't have a problem with people, animals, the planet, the worthy "fight" to stop it being over polluted, to oppose the wars etc etc. What I have a problem with is those that pretend they are ready for "heaven" when they can't even show they are ready for "earth".

Hate sin by not hating the sinner. Simple enough. The earth is not a sinner, it is God's desire for life. The universe is not evil. The NWO and illuminati stuff is there to serve your inner needs and attachments. When mankind cleanses those things within itself, these illusions of outside control will dissappear.

[primordialman]

I'm in half agreement with you. The only difference is that I know a way to love the world and not fall for materialism and NWO. But if you mean "not of the world", then I would equate that as not of duality, but of a spiritual home.
Good for you, unlike you however i dont have that amount of faith in Human Nature. I ve seen plenty of people hooked in by this Aquarian thing make such claims however when the truth is known it appears they are living exactly the same consumerist lifestyle as anyone else they are also not immune to the influence of post modernism.

I don't have a problem with people, animals, the planet, the worthy "fight" to stop it being over polluted, to oppose the wars etc etc. What I have a problem with is those that pretend they are ready for "heaven" when they can't even show they are ready for "earth".
What do you mean by ready for earth as opposed to ready for heaven.
An othordox christian believes christ grace is freely given not based on works or efforts here in this world, so i guess this where i start to disagree with you.

Also if i go back to these points of your gnostic beliefs charter here:

5. This earth upon which we live is the very first from which God evolved. As a consequence, this world is known by those who believe as the World of the First Power.

6. The material world contains within its mortal, physical nature, the very essence and similitude of all things wondrous and eternal. Unlike the false Gnostics of ages past, we do not believe that the material world is evil.
They state a kind of live affair for the world something which almost seems completely contrary to the Gnostic texts i have read not just christian material.

I don't have a problem with people, animals, the planet, the worthy "fight" to stop it being over polluted, to oppose the wars etc etc. What I have a problem with is those that pretend they are ready for "heaven" when they can't even show they are ready for "earth".
In 100% agreement with that!. However I am aussming there would be a fair few Gnostics around e.g FMS which wouldnt give dam about the environment. Some appear to place complete faith in human reason or science and progress i think some of these postivist views only lead to climate change scepticism or other careless attitudes towards the natural world.

Hate sin by not hating the sinner. Simple enough. The earth is not a sinner, it is God's desire for life. The universe is not evil. The NWO and illuminati stuff is there to serve your inner needs and attachments. When mankind cleanses those things within itself, these illusions of outside control will dissappear.
You speak about attachments above like a Buddhist does, however i have met a few of these Neo Buddhists (not the monks) in Aus whom simply claim to be Buddhists are they are living much like anyone else out there in western society they are not monks so they have not dedicated their lives to ascesticism & the lifestyle obligations in that package so I am not sure how buddhist they are. For example I have met someone in their 20s whom claimed to be buddhists yet hadnt even heard of the eightfold path was, yet he knew all about the Noble Truths so I am very cynical of these post modern buddhists or Gnostics in western nations I must say.

Also what would you say about Sri Lanka where Buddhism is the state religion yet they treat the tamils like the Isrealis treat the palestinians.
Is Buddhism really the Religion of love and peace it claims to be when it is made into a state religion as it is in Sri lanka.