The Infiltration Of The Truth Movement [Archive]

christophera

02-09-2007, 05:37 AM

What Does The Infiltration Of The Truth Movement Look Like? How Does It Work?

How can one identify and discern the infiltrators or their supporters?

I've seen enough to be able to write this and know for certain that it has substance and is partially accurate. A year ago I suspected this was the case but was not sure. I needed to see more to know for sure. I've seen it now and will write about it.

What the infiltration looks like is a group of people supporting each other when none of them has a real explanation for anything. If you are an ordinary American, not obsessed with 9-11 truth and over informed on the matter, it looks like a bunch of kooks presenting nonsense theories that invoke an environment of sensation. You might wonder how such nonsense makes it to prominence.

Normally leadership is promoted by the confidence of those who follow, so the average American observer thinks, "Man, those 9-11 truthers are really idiots if they think;"

a nuclear weapon was used to bring down the towers

a space beam took out the twin towers

that the plane attacks were actually video fakery

and promote these people to the level of prominence where alternative media is abuzz with the nonsense.

So the goal of the infiltration is to get the rest of America who is basically okay with the official explanation to think that the small group of truthers are gullible idiots.

It has been successful to a degree. Yet one more deception/manipulation of the American public.

What the infiltration looks like is a group of people supporting each other when none of them has a real explanation for anything. With regard to this entire subject presented here: An explanation is needed, so I'm providing one. Keep in mind that my web site (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html) actually explains most everything in reasonable, feasible ways consistent with all evidence.

It is important that no real explanation of substance be provided and does not matter that the government is blamed in all cases. The idea is to create an attitude in the average American so that their perceptions of the other available information is tainted. It helps if part of that attitude is that the truth movement believes the" government did it", or that "bush did it". Stereotyping is important.

I've posted on boards where no matter what I say the disinfos there will say "So the government did it, or bush did it huh?" they echo it. This IS a psychological operation and they are clearly trying to provide a psychologically leading environment to encourage attitudes that divide Americans.

How do the agents of deception know each other and do they know they are presenting deceptive information? This is more difficult to discern and the reader may not have enough background in conspiracy facts to be able to hang all the pieces together that I provide. In fact, with one aspect it is pretty much certain that even the more experienced truth seeker, conspiracy theorist may not have enough information to make solid sense of this.

It will also seem that I'm favoring my own theories in this, but my "information" that I present here is not a theory to me. It is absolutely for certain and the last 5 years of argument on message boards, authoring web sites and producing video was not based on a theory, it was done on a certainty. That certainty is the steel reinforced cast concrete core that was at the center of the twin towers.

There is another certainty. That is mind control through manipulation of the unconscious mind. That is where many will have a hard time with this, but some do know that such is not new on planet earth and that it has had undue control for millennia.

Now, speculation based on that certainty.
First, there is a loose piece of information that many people know about but have no idea of where it fits in, this is not a certainty, but again, an explanation is needed so a reasonable hypothesis is given. MKultra was an "experiment" exposed by the Church commission in the late 1960's and 70's. It is absolutely certain that 150,000 Americans were exposed to some sort of psychological manipulation of some kind, for the most part, without their knowledge. It is also known, that many more Americans were also influenced in the same way, but how many is not known.

Now for some simple logic:

Is an activity an "experiment" if it is carried out on 150,000 people? NO, it is not reasonable to call it an experiment at that level. It IS reasonable to call it a "PROJECT", particularly if the numbers are actually more. Here is one of the most important factors. America never learned WHY the CIA conducted MKultra. Another simple fact is that people who were children at the beginning of MKultra are now at an age where they are at the most influential people in society generally. If you research the phenomena of "somnambulism" and hyper amnesia you will find enough substance to realize that unconscious is far better than secret.

How it works is the people influenced unconsciously have "conditional instructions" which are post hypnotically activated by an event described to the decades earlier. In this case 9-11. Some instructions are simply being unable to believe that there was a concrete core and that only a steel core could exist; and that no secret that size could be kept. Others are to believe that there were no planes and that it was video fakery, others are to believe it was a space ray. The infiltrating leadership is more carefully programmed and must exhibit certain behavior or pass tests that show their handlers that they are following their instructions. Once that is seen they are empowered with money and contacts to spread their information.

Between the above and the fact that the internet is the primary tool of 9-11 information, the conspiracy is working. The internet is a system financed by DARPA (Advanced Research Projects Agency) http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/Topics/57.htm, coupled with the fact that the largest message boards such as myspace are now owned by those who also own media (Murdoch), people who are of the same constituency and of similar beliefs, cannot find each other. Yet another group is employed by intelligence agencies to counter the spread of accurate information on 9-11 by using modified techniques that originated with the "delphi technique" to manipulate the opinions of truth seekers on message boards.

Another more overt move was to empower the quasi leadership infiltrating by "leaking" plans that substantiate their unconscious beliefs in the steel core columns. I have analyzed the plans and they have been digitally manipulated to appear as though they underwent extensive enough revision and review to actually be real plans. (http://algoxy.com/psych/whatis9-11Disinfo_fakeplan.html) The legibility of dimensions were destroyed by over compressing and the revision tables faked to give the impressions needed.

Basically, to identify an infiltrator of the 9-11 truth movement, or someone who has been influenced for the role, all one has to do is ask them about the core of the towers. If they say it had steel core columns, then they see the evidence of the concrete core, and can produce no equal evidence but still refuse to consider that there was a deception in the towers design enabled by the plans being taken by the ex NYC mayor; and cannot see that the destruction of the crime scene and shipping steel overseas further enabled the deception, then accepts that it is okay that NIST never had the plans, and still thinks the FEMA, who was in NYC 2 miles from the WTC in force for an excercise 2 days before 9-11; is telling the truth; then you have an unconscious infiltrator.

Their conscious ability to reason with the facts and evidence has been unconscioiusly disabled. There are of course exceptions, but generally one factor should really make anybody think.

Concrete can be fractured to fall freely, instantly, by a small amount of high explosives which are properly placed, steel cannot. The concrete core enables feasible and reasonable explanatons for everything seen, heard and found at ground zero.

How it works is basically by supporting the impossible to obscure the possible.

28th kingdom

02-09-2007, 06:56 AM

Are you watching closely?

The idea of disinfo agents in conspiracy circles... is disinfo... designed to get you all to divide and conquer yerselves...

Do you really think Jude or Fetz are gov. paid? You are buying too much into the Alex Jones game. There are NO well known disinfo agents in the Truth Movement... watch all of the MSM media coverage of the 9/11 conspiracies... do you see them painting the Truth Movement with the lesser accepted theories put out by people like Fetz? NO!

Do you see the hit pieces... focusing on the space beams and holographic planes? NO! I've never even seen these theories mentioned on MSM.

You people think yer awake to the game... but you are playing right into their hands on this one... stop being a bigot... space beams and no-planes are unlikely... BUT NOT impossible... so I don't find it hard to believe that someone might believe these theories...

Some people just like to stand out and be different just for the sake of being different... even within a conspiracy circle... you know - the kind of people who believe in concrete cores and stuff like that.

matrixcutter

02-09-2007, 02:47 PM

Of course there are disinfo agents. Does anybody genuinely believe that the powers that be did not anticipate some sort of 9/11 truth movement? Of course they did, they knew it inside out years before the towers even came down.

The think-tanks would even have anticipated people trying to push the idea that 9/11 was all about oil, and probably encouraged it! It was about kickstarting the war on terror, used as a strategy to bring in world government and to remove civil liberties. They even admitted that they needed "a new Pearl Harbor" and then referred to 9/11 as "a new Pearl Harbor".

Disinfo is a tool of counter-intelligence, and it is used as standard in events and situations far less significant than 9/11.

Some people are so naive.

christophera

02-09-2007, 08:06 PM

.
Some people just like to stand out and be different just for the sake of being different... even within a conspiracy circle... you know - the kind of people who believe in concrete cores and stuff like that.

I can prove the concrete core. If you are unable to use the evidence that is your problem. I know you cannot prove the steel core columns.

christophera

02-09-2007, 08:09 PM

christophera

02-09-2007, 10:26 PM

The idea of disinfo agents in conspiracy circles... is disinfo... designed to get you all to divide and conquer yerselves...

Does this mean you are going to use evidence which shows a concrete core, or will you continue with the unreasonable division created by your unwillingness to recognize evidence?

ryans53

03-09-2007, 06:44 AM

Christophera-

You make plenty of valid points in your posts that I tend to agree with. However there are some points that I take issue with. Before I mention the areas I disagree let me just state that I don't profess to fully understand all of your positions, particularly the issue over the WTC cores, but feel I have grasped enough to at least comment.

My first concern is the idea of absolute certainty that you use here:

It will also seem that I'm favoring my own theories in this, but my "information" that I present here is not a theory to me. It is absolutely for certain and the last 5 years of argument on message boards, authoring web sites and producing video was not based on a theory, it was done on a certainty. That certainty is the steel reinforced cast concrete core that was at the center of the twin towers.

I don't know what the core of the towers were actually made of, but I have learned from studying the philosophy of knowledge in general, and 9/11 in particular, that absolute certainty is more often a dream than a reality and should be handled with extreme caution. Now, you may very well be certain about this and you may very well be correct as well, but when you try to present personal certainties of yours to an audience, as absolute certainties for them as well, your argument runs the risk of morphing into an argument from personal conviction. Like I said, I don't claim to be well-informed on the wtc core structures, but those who use the argument from personal conviction in areas that are sure to be controversial deserve red flags from my experience. And a denial of the all-steel core columns is definitely of a controversial nature. On top of this, if the two videos on your website are representative of your case against the steel columns, much of your evidence is dependent on a currently unavailable PBS documentary. I'm not insinuating that the documentary doesn't exist but instead I'm pointing out that for those of us who haven't seen the documentary, your case could never reach absolute certainty status.

You further go on to talk about infiltrators within the 9/11 movement who's job it is to generate a sense of gullibility within the public eye about the movement as a whole. Notice that if we were to accept the no steel core hypothesis, without first seeing the documentary from which much of the hypothesis depends, the movement would just as easily be perceived as gullible. This is why absolute certainty is dangerous when particularly complicated events are at issue. And 9/11 is certainly a complicated event by the most conservative of estimates.

What the infiltration looks like is a group of people supporting each other when none of them has a real explanation for anything.

If what you're saying here is that what is needed in a legitimate study of 9/11 is an affirmative theory of what actually happened, I think you are unnecessarily narrowing the realm of discussion about the issue. We do not need to know what in fact did happen in order to know at least some of what did not happen. For example, if someone were to ask me what 13 x 17 is and I answered 100, would you need to know what 13 x 17 actually is in order to prove that my answer was wrong? No, because you might say that 10 x 10 is 100 and both 13 and 17 are greater than 10. Therefore, 13 x 17 must be greater than 100. It would help if you knew what the real answer was, but it is not necessary. Unfortunately in 9/11, real answers are extremely hard to come by so we must tolerate negative analyses that tell us what the wrong answers are in the hope that they'll point us in the direction of the right answer. Therefore it is a mistake to assume that an incomplete explanation is somehow defective on those grounds alone.

You referred to non-conventional weaponry and tv fakery as points that might be likely to generate ridicule from the mainstream consensus. I'm not going to argue that that notion is necessarily false, but I will argue that even if it is true, what follows should not be a cessation of those areas of research. What the general public decides to embrace should not dictate the extent to which legitimate research is carried out. It is unfortunate that the public is so critical of radical ideas but that issue must be dealt with in a way that does not compromise the market place of ideas. If information is concealed from me in the interest of public approval, I can not be expected to make well-informed decisions about what to believe.

As far as what you say about the subconscious/unconscious and the mind control programs of intelligence agencies is concerned, I whole-heartedly agree with you there. There is a lot going on in a person's psyche at those deep levels and it is imperative that the public become aware of the powers of control that await those that master the relevant techniques. But for now I'll leave that here.

christophera

03-09-2007, 09:19 AM

Christophera-
I don't know what the core of the towers were actually made of, but I have learned from studying the philosophy of knowledge in general, and 9/11 in particular, that absolute certainty is more often a dream than a reality and should be handled with extreme caution.

When you are in the engineering world and you view in depth documentary of construction which you understand, the level of even questioning certainty is transcended. A person with a dynamic background related to the work, becomes quite aware of the controlling factors the engineers are contending with and what they are building is secondary. My greater impression is not so much that the core was concrete, but that it was a tremendous challenge to build.

Can you get used to that if I can explain structures and events, using what I learned from the "Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers" and evidence it now with images of construction and 9-11?

If so there is an active thread where new evidence is being compiled all the time.

http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854

At the beginning there are 3 .mp3's where I explain a series of images that are posted. Fintan Dunne edited and seguayed the interview so that it coincides nicely in the sequence of images on the page.

http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854

At the end a picture of the inner, concrete core wall viewed up an elevator shaft has just been found.

How long have you been posting about 9-11 on message boards and which boards have you worked?

ON EDIT:
We do not need to know what in fact did happen in order to know at least some of what did not happen.
Generally, that should be enough to serve our needs, but it is not under conditions. Have you filed any civil lawsuits in federal court? Have you studied decisions of the last decade? Have you comunicated with officials on contentious subjects recently?

If so, you will know that something very solid and also as safe, with regard to social fear, as well as mundane or less sensational on the face; will have the best chance of going through the official channels easily with success. The core lie qualifies which is why the infiltration of the 9-11 truth movement focuses on eliminating pubic acceptance/awareness of the concrete core and supplanting the FEMA core without question.

28th kingdom

03-09-2007, 11:02 AM

Christophera... yer concrete core theory is crazier than the space beams... and I'M NOT KIDDING!

mr_pixie

03-09-2007, 11:20 AM

Christophera, your talking a load of crap!:eek:

STEVEN E JONES IS THE AGENT:(

Thermite/Thermate - Did not bring down the Twin Towers.

You have been taken in by the disinfo.

christophera

03-09-2007, 04:23 PM

christophera

03-09-2007, 04:25 PM

Christophera, your talking a load of crap!:eek:

STEVEN E JONES IS THE AGENT:(

Thermite/Thermate - Did not bring down the Twin Towers.

You have been taken in by the disinfo.

Your message appears to have an erroneous, contrived basis and ONLY YOU are talking about Jones and Thermite. Must you introduce the movements "straw man" in order to have a subject you can discuss?

eternal_spirit

03-09-2007, 05:28 PM

eternal_spirit

03-09-2007, 05:30 PM

New Age ( false spirituality I call it) is more dangerous than most on here wan't to believe it to be. This is promoted by those at the top of society ( the Elite) they invented it and many of the masses fall for it.

There is little reason or logic behind these belief systems, just like most conspiracy theories, analyse the info and it doesn't add up, prove, change or achieve anything useful ( another none reality) prison maze for the mind, ever decreasing circles, then you realize years later it's mostly bullshit!

christophera

03-09-2007, 09:07 PM

Most of the conspiracy theories aren't proveable and much doesn't make any sense. I think the powers that be wouldn't let us know the truths, that's why there is so many conflicting stories and disinfo to confuse us. And even if parts of it where true, there's little ( nothing in some cases) we can do to change things.

We can't even trust the History Books, bits added and taken away! How do we know so called ancient history wasn't invented and written say less than a hundred years ago?

You are absolutely correct.

http://www.realityzone.com/hiddenagenda2.html

And modern psychology is totally in on it. I hear the APA was founded by a skull and bones member. I tested them with evidence of the potentials for the abuse of hypnosis based in solid evidence and they fell flat on their collective face.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/aparesponse.jpg

That was a very informative exchange and when I resent everything to the referred division of the APA, an answer came not from the APA but from washington state university and it was total BS. Nothing like a psychologist engaging in cognitive distortions to piss you off.

New Age ( false spirituality I call it) is more dangerous than most on here wan't to believe it to be. This is promoted by those at the top of society ( the Elite) they invented it and many of the masses fall for it.

There is little reason or logic behind these belief systems, just like most conspiracy theories, analyse the info and it doesn't add up, prove, change or achieve anything useful ( another none reality) prison maze for the mind, ever decreasing circles, then you realize years later it's mostly bullshit!

I agree, the new age "spirituality" seeks to diminish and encapsulate profound factors about the human unconscious mind then dismiss them in a fog of gibberish.

I have made the first very solid step towards a documented explanation for mind control. I call it "INFERENCE ONE"

INFERENCE ONE

Relating potentials for hypnotic performance to results of research, practice and experiments of hypnosis. Christopher A. Brown 8/17/01

BASIS 1 of INFERENCE

The first sentance of page 175 of EMOTIONS and MEMORY, 1964, by David Rappaport,

"The general tendency" of the subject to forget the events of the trance after emerging from it."

http://algoxy.com/psych/psyimages/emomem175.jpeg

BASIS 2 of INFERENCE

(1) of the same paragraph states that, "The hypnotist can successfully suggest that no posthypnotic amnesia develop".

Basis 2 Restated; Suggestion conducive to remembering is successful or generally, suggestion effecting memory has effect against a general tendancy.

CONDITIONS OF BASIS

The first note page 175, EMOTIONS and MEMORY, Note #8 states (first note below main text) that the results of memory described "in general are valid only with subjects who are able to reach the somanmbulistic stages of hypnosis."

INFERENCE ONE

Logical inference of BASIS 1 with BASIS 2, is that; suggestion to forget will have a greater effect on memory because of the general "tendency to forget". Research confirms with observations of behavior consistent with general hyperamnesia at the top of page 176, the end of a footnote that begins on page 175 stating;

"we find hypnotized people indignantly denying they have been hypnotized."

http://algoxy.com/psych/psyimages/emomem176.jpeg

INFERENCE ONE

If the tendancy is to forget following hypnosis that induces a trance to the level of somanmbulism and suggection effecting memory is successful then suggestion to forget will be more effective than suggestion to remember.

Another general perspective that underlines the ease of memory control.

What is the correct answer to this question?

Q.What is easier to do than forgetting?

A. I don't remember.

ryans53

05-09-2007, 03:21 AM

When you are in the engineering world and you view in depth documentary of construction which you understand, the level of even questioning certainty is transcended.

Perhaps under ordinary circumstances one is justified in making that sort of assertion; however, when one is working under precarious circumstances I don't believe that assertion holds. 9/11 is an extraordinary mystery on multiple fronts. I think it is safe to say that 9/11 was meticulously planned, not only for the events of that day itself, but the years prior and subsequent to the event were also part of the planning. With this in mind, even an apparently innocuous engineering film from many years ago cannot be presumed trustworthy on its face alone.

The nature of 9/11 itself forces us into this realm of suspended belief. That is to say that we can figure out enough about it to get a good sense of the kinds of things going on behind the scenes, but not enough to form definitive, sound and pointed conclusions. I suspect that this notion is somewhat uncomfortable for those of a scientific background because the sorts of assumptions scientists tend to make allow for conclusive reasoning. However, for those, like myself, who have a stronger background in philosophy and the humanities there is not much room for certainty because there are no uncontested axioms to work with. 9/11 is more than a strictly materials science issue--it involves layers of deception and psychological warfare that have profound implications on the legitimacy of any source of evidence.

You have already shown that you understand the psychological side of 9/11 so I assume you are already inclined to sympathize with me on this. My question to you would be, On what grounds can you defend, with certainty, that the documentary to which you refer is authentic? If you already believe that the potential for deception on a mass scale exists with respect to many features of the 9/11 story in general, then how does this documentary acquire its immunity from a similar degree of scrutiny?

Bear in mind that I have nothing invested in the existence of a steel core either so please do not assume that I am defending the all-steel hypothesis.

Have you filed any civil lawsuits in federal court? Have you studied decisions of the last decade? Have you comunicated with officials on contentious subjects recently?

If so, you will know that something very solid and also as safe, with regard to social fear, as well as mundane or less sensational on the face; will have the best chance of going through the official channels easily with success. The core lie qualifies which is why the infiltration of the 9-11 truth movement focuses on eliminating pubic acceptance/awareness of the concrete core and supplanting the FEMA core without question.

There is something to be said for making a case that is palatable to the mainstream consensus, but only insofar as such a case does not compromise the truth. In other words, if we were to suppress non-conventional weaponry and TV fakery research in the interest of public opinion, then we, as students of world affairs, would severely handicap our interpretation of the world. Since this is a psychological game we are playing with the powers that be we must not limit the lengths to which we can discuss what is possible. It has to be acknowledged that the role of a disinformation agent is to quarantine the extent to which a mind is inquisitive. Much of the elitist agenda persists precisely because it is "too big to be real" according to the mainstream consensus. This is the psychological move that cordons off the mind's awareness of its reality. Therefore, a tolerance for extravagant ideas--not just any idea, but at least well-reasoned ideas--must be upheld, even if it leaves the ground fertile for disinformation campaigns.

I understand that some people believe that holding the 9/11 perpetrators accountable for their actions through official avenues like a court of law is the primary purpose for the 9/11 movement, but I think there is room to disagree here. Since the scale to which 9/11 appears to have been orchestrated is so immense, there is good reason to believe that there exists no official avenue of formal law that would be immunized from corruption. Instead, what we're dealing with is mass consciousness and its perception of reality. That is what makes this an information crisis more than a legal crisis. Based on this, I argue that we need to recognize the importance of diverse and varied ideas in all areas of our world views, not just in 9/11. However, with respect to 9/11, your interest in the core structure of the WTC towers is relevant and important, but not to the exclusion of other, perhaps more "out there" research on 9/11.

christophera

05-09-2007, 03:47 AM

Perhaps under ordinary circumstances one is justified in making that sort of assertion; however, when one is working under precarious circumstances I don't believe that assertion holds. 9/11 is an extraordinary mystery on multiple fronts. I think it is safe to say that 9/11 was meticulously planned, not only for the events of that day itself, but the years prior and subsequent to the event were also part of the planning. With this in mind, even an apparently innocuous engineering film from many years ago cannot be presumed trustworthy on its face alone.

We have 5 very profound, impossible seeming events which must be explained. Either that or the entire thing was an act of God and there simply is no explanation, meaning God will probably be loading our weapons and pointing our guns for us and pulling the triggers for us in the wars which have been sprouted from 9-11.

If the above IS NOT a real possibility then explain those 5 things which I will list for us.

1.)free fall
2.)total pulverization
3.)superfine/heated dust
4,)smooth, square cut column ends
5.)heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet

It is presumed you will explain those things with towers that have steel core columns in the core area.

Now I will give it a go using the concrete core in the built to demolish scenario.

1.)Concrete can be instantly fractured to fall freely by a small amount of explosives which are properly placed. 2.)With an engineered concrete explosive container, aggregates traveling outward from vertical core walls and floor concrete travelling upward, all at speeds of 7 miles per second, completely grind up the contents of the floors and rooms. 3.)With the same engineered explosive container pressures can be designed via charge size and containment capacity manipulation, to reach maximum pressures making massive quantities of superfine particulate which is also super heated. 4,) With the built to demolish scenario optimized cutting charges (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/steelbeamcuttingfloors.gif) using tight fitting steel plates contianed in concrete to guide the high pressure gasses around the columns, a precision cutting plane is formed which can slice through the column walls and exhaust the pressure out the top of the columns. 5.)When the concrete walls expand at 7 miles per second with the sand and aggregates of the walls into the web zones of the 'I" beams of the floors, the beams and whatever they are connected to will be thrown long distances.

Realize that all of the above is completely consistent with all evidence.

Okay, now your turn to explain events with the steel core columned design.

christophera

05-09-2007, 07:17 AM

Since this is a psychological game we are playing with the powers that be we must not limit the lengths to which we can discuss what is possible.

I'm answering this in a separate post because it is a different subject and more on topic than the discussion of the physical events of the phenomena of the towers on 9-11.

My focus is the term "what is possible". I feel quite strongly that there was a pre 9-11 psyops that can be seen in the bumper sticker "I love my country but fear my government."

That psyops was done to create an impression of technological prowess on the part of our government. Not to say that there is not advanced technology, but to say that it is not as advanced as those wishing to control us would have us believe. I for a fact know that they really screwed up with the star wars defense initiative. Simple conceptual priority problem.

Sure, the laser cannon works, and the assumption that it can be pointed accurately seems okay, but the simple geometry required adjacent to review of available devices and the microscopic increments required to actually point the cannon to the target size wasn't done.

I know this because my father in law contracted to budget the SDI for the DOD at the point of initial funding, about 1996-7 I think. I saw him real busy, generating flow charts etc. and asked him what he was doing. At first he hesitated, then said, "Well it's declassified, so I guess it's okay to tell you." He told me.
I thought for a second, realized I had considered all the issues some years before and told him, "It won't work".
He looked at me flabbergasted and asked "Why?"
I told him "They won't ever get it pointed right"
He couldn't believe I could make the statement so sure of myself. I explained the angular resolution problem, he understood it, assumed it could be resolved and dismissed me and my concerns.

I did a little research into devices after some calculations and determined that indeed, there was no device that could be found that would even get close to resolving the angle needed at the distances proposed. I returned to his office and told him. He got upset and dismissed me again and continued to work.

About 18 months later he called me into his office and apologized and stated that everything was feasible except targeting in his budget analysis. SDI disappeared as we knew it and the anti-missile-missile became the darling defense concept.

Consider; Do you realize how much outsourcing the DOD is doing now for technological development? Then look at such things as the hubblescope.

My point being that when you say, "we must not limit the lengths to which we can discuss what is possible." is that we know what is possibly capable of doing what happened to the tower, what has enough energy.

nukes
laser cannons
conventional explosives

That, .......... is ........ it. Nukes cannot be delayed, we heard delays, nukes have a minimum size. Multiple nuclear detonations of the minimum size would have far exceeded what happened. WHOA, we just eliminated one possibility. Laser cannons? My take is that the effect of a laser cannon is completely different than what we saw. I certainly don't know exactly what such would look like, but I'm betting that there would be a hell of a lot more heat involved from the very beginning and everything that followed would be because of that heating. For the sake of continuing, let's assume that is eliminated too.

Conventional explosives. Hmmm, "we must not limit the lengths to which we can discuss what is possible." Okay, if the explosives are built into the cast concrete as engineering explosive containers, something fully possible, suddenly we have explained the physical event. All we have to do is come to grips with the depth of conspiracy over the period of time that has passed and we have a seriously competent explanation.

The issue of "unconscious is better than secret" takes care of that issue quite well.

"we must not limit the lengths to which we can discuss what is possible." And certainly not attibute to our govenment anything more than what is feasible. Even then, we should question their competency. Particuarly considering what they are doing, or trying to do, and, ........ not let them do it. They are not omnipotent. But we are, if we have a democracy and can agree within it.

christophera

16-09-2007, 07:59 PM

The issue of supporting the impossible to obscure the possible is now ruling the 9-11 truth movement.

The abscence of any explanation for these factors underlines that dominance.

free fall
total pulverization
superfine, heated particulate
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet

The 2 which are most difficult are the masses of superfine particulate and the smooth, square cut columns.

The composition of the dust and the iron microspheres are actually a good clue because airborn superfine iron particulate cannot be created by thermite. Thermite does the opposite as it melts and consolidates steel.

pi33

16-09-2007, 09:00 PM

pi33

18-09-2007, 12:54 PM

The Fetzer "steel turning into dust" video has been mysteriously removed. I will post a new link when I find one.

His partner in crime Dr Judy Wood has some 'Steel turning into steel dust' stuff:
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam3.html#disintegrate

masonfree party

18-09-2007, 10:22 PM

Here is a disinfo agent at work. Jim Fetzer of 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth'. Listen carefully to what he is saying, and he is a Phd. :rolleyes:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iK1NF59gcfQ

The scholars all left 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth' and formed 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice': http://stj911.org/faq.html

Reliable, trustworthy information on agent provocateurs within 9/11 Truth:
http://911review.com/disinfo/index.html

I wouldn't call 911review.com trustworthy..it tries to debunk the no plane viewpoint....best to go to www.911movement.org www.drjudywood.com www.checktheevidence.com i know the guy who made the last one and can vouch for him

masonfree party

18-09-2007, 10:23 PM

Here is a disinfo agent at work. Jim Fetzer of 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth'. Listen carefully to what he is saying, and he is a Phd. :rolleyes:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iK1NF59gcfQ

The scholars all left 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth' and formed 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice': http://stj911.org/faq.html

Reliable, trustworthy information on agent provocateurs within 9/11 Truth:
http://911review.com/disinfo/index.html

I wouldn't call 911review.com trustworthy..it tries to debunk the no plane viewpoint....best to go to http://www.911movement.org http://www.drjudywood.com http://www.checktheevidence.com i know the guy who made the last one and can vouch for him

masonfree party

18-09-2007, 10:23 PM

Here is a disinfo agent at work. Jim Fetzer of 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth'. Listen carefully to what he is saying, and he is a Phd. :rolleyes:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iK1NF59gcfQ

The scholars all left 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth' and formed 'Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice': http://stj911.org/faq.html

Reliable, trustworthy information on agent provocateurs within 9/11 Truth:
http://911review.com/disinfo/index.html

I wouldn't call 911review.com trustworthy..it tries to debunk the no plane viewpoint....best to go to 911movement.org drjudywood.com checktheevidence.com i know the guy who made the last one and can vouch for him

christophera

19-09-2007, 12:44 AM

I wouldn't call 911review.com trustworthy..it tries to debunk the no plane viewpoint....best to go to 911movement.org drjudywood.com checktheevidence.com i know the guy who made the last one and can vouch for him

Is there comprehensive explanations for these factors that are consistent with all evidence?

free fall
total pulverization
superfine, heated particulate
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet

If not, then what use are they?

edro9494

19-09-2007, 01:18 AM

the disinformation is where zionists are infiltrating the supposed movement (alex jones) and turning people away from the Israeli connection to 9/11. "No, no, it was the german death cult and the luciferians." it was not THE GOVERNMENT. all 3 branches didn't get together and orchestrate this. pull your heads out of your shorts and look into the Israeli connection, i guarantee astonishment!

Alex Jones, Korey Rowe, Jason Bermas, and Dylan Avery are FLAT OUT DENYING ISRAEL HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT. THESE PEOPLE ARE SENT OUT AND FINANCIED BY THE ZIONIST CRIMINAL NETWORK TO COVER ITS TRACK, DEFLECT ANY INFORMATION ABOUT ISRAELI MOSSAD AGENTS, AND PLACE THE BLAME SOLELY ON BUSH, CHENEY, RUMSFELD, AND THE "US EMPIRE." TAKE A MOMENT AND THINK ABOUT IT, THEY CAN'T STOP THE TRUTH FROM COMING OUT SO THEY JUST DECIDE TO SHIFT THE BLAME TO COVER THEIR TAILS. ALEX JONES HAD ONE OF THE ROTHSCHILD BOYS ON HIS SHOW, FOR CHRISTS SAKE! GET A CLUE PEOPLE.

WHO CONTROLS THE MEDIA? BANKING? CONGRESS? WE KNOW BUSH, CHENEY, AND RUMSFELD CANNOT CONTROL ANY OF THOSE. THE REAL POWER IS NEVER PUT ON PUBLIC DISPLAY.

"I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply."
- Nathan Mayer Rothschild

"If my sons did not want wars, there would be none."
- Gutle Schnaper, wife of Mayer Rothschild

This Zionist criminal network is the Illuminati, the Rothschilds are at the top. They are the ones who originally funded Weishaupt's efforts for the order of the Illuminati. Go read or listen to what ex-zionist Ben Freedman and Myron Fagan said back in the 1960s about this crime network!

pi33

19-09-2007, 01:21 AM

911review.com is one of the few (and fewer) real 9/11 sites.

Another is http://911research.wtc7.net/

Dr Judy Wood however talks about laser beams from space, she is an illuminati straw man.

christophera

22-09-2007, 06:24 AM

Alex Jones, Korey Rowe, Jason Bermas, and Dylan Avery are FLAT OUT DENYING ISRAEL HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT.

Hey, ........ edro9494, that could actually be useful info there. Combined with what pi33 says below and a substantiated theory I have developed.

911review.com is one of the few (and fewer) real 9/11 sites.

Another is http://911research.wtc7.net/

Dr Judy Wood however talks about laser beams from space, she is an illuminati straw man.

We never did learn what the purpose of MKultra was. We learned it was real and the 150,000 Americans were psychologically influenced, but we never learned why.

Project MKULTRA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We never learned their identities.

Has anyone heard that the American psychological association was founded by a skull and bones member? I did, I've researched it some, but can't prove it.

I've tested the APA and find they cannot deal with manipulations of the unconscious mind, memory control and secret exploitation.

The Senior director of the APA answered, inadequately, my letter to them.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/aparesponse.jpg

I resent my letter to the reference they provided and the response was BS, cognitive distortions.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/apabarabasz.jpg

1. I had referred to "ABUSES" Barabasz distorts "minimizing" the issue. A cognitive distortion.

2. I had not asked if the person mentioned was a member of the A.P.A. I know they are not.

3. If the 30 year old paper is "out dated" what is the new reference comprehensive to my issues? Without that information this is a another cognitive distortion of "minimumization"

4. The source is Black Law Dictionary, named and attached, is linked in my letter below.

5. Barabasz does not know that it is absolutely legal to hypnotize a person without their awareness in California so licensure is not competent if it does not include investigation of abuses.

Anyway, the APA response was garbage.

Then I found this gem. Notice the patterns of MK, notice the symbolic breaking down and reassembly of the MK, it resembles processes of layering described in mind control.

http://algoxy.com/psych/psyimages/humanmem.jpg

And, a critical element of control is memory. The word "dissociation" is not found in the book, nor is repression. HOW can you have a book called "Human Memory" with out those words?

http://algoxy.com/psych/psyimages/humanmem2.jpg

I propose the infiltration of the truth movement was part of the purpose of MKultra. Meaning there is a good reason to think that perhaps those acting against reasonable uses of evidence and information do not know what they are doing.

Therefore, attacking them creates greater reason for the true perpetrators to oppose our quest for truth. It creates fear and reason to conceal even more.

We must stay focused on the truth, not hate and anger. In fact, to understand them, might gain their help, because they too want the truth, but cannot use the information available because their cognitive processes and memory are not available as is ours.

christophera

03-10-2007, 07:13 PM

As a member of meetup I get messages occasionally. On a recent occasion I responded with information to the mailing list that is also appropriate here

Dear folks of meetup,

I found the below video testimony and compiled excerpts on a message board which I responded to and I copy now to meetup members who have interest on a comprehensive update on the cutting edge developments in the internet battle for truth.

We of the truth movement no longer have much opposition from those who support what I view as an infiltrated government, or at least not often, and most in the movement don't make that distinction. If one looks closely they will see the opposition have little real passion and will not reason and more as being simply "on a mission".
There is no way to justify support for such a degradation of what was once inspiring to the entire world. A Constitutional republic controlled democratically by the people under laws and having and ability to reason on most social levels.
We, ........... or I in my advanced role of asserting a fact or known truth which I've had since 1990; now oppose those who have leadership roles by default in the truth movement, basically self appointed, certainly accepted by default; who also DENY verifiable fact that the Twin Towers had a steel reinforced cast CONCRETE core structure and that FEMA has misrepresented the towers design. Instead of using images and verifiable reports that quasi leadership of the truth movement will ONLY use information from FEMA regarding the structure of the towers.

The total structure and the hidden core structure completely control analysis of collapse. If that changes, all analysis is flawed and must be repeated as would be all criminal investigations in order to comply with due process. This allegation of deception is a non flammable. Completely reasonable subject matter for official question, easy for representatives to support.

VERY IMPORTANT: The reason the deception of the core is so important is that having a concrete core makes the event possible from an engineering standpoint. The BUILT TO DEMOLISH CONCEPT does this feasibly, the public can understand why the core deception is so important but because of the stigma and dogma that the pysops will employ, as an activist, DO NOT allow distraction with it when you are demanding the truth of the structure based on exposure of a serous misrepresentation and deception by FEMA.

John Schroeder
VIDEO:
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=53815767687186956&hl=en

QUOTE FROM MESSAGE BOARD:
BROOKLYN, N.Y. - Firefighter John Schroeder, assigned to Engine Company 10 directly across the street from the World Trade Center complex, holds back tears and describes his first-hand experience on Sept. 11th. His story directly contradicts many aspects of the National Commission on Terrorist attacks and corroborates many other eyewitnesses testimony.

“Standing outside the firehouse with my buddies, we were talking about how beautiful the day was. Then just like that, our lives changed forever. Some of those guys I would never see again.”

In this exclusive interview, Firefighter Schroeder recollects in great detail how he was one of the first firefighters to rush to the complex. “We first assembled on West Street, where we saw someone burnt beyond recognition. We were like ‘What is going on here?’ and then went straight into the Marriot building” From there, Firefighter Schroeder made his way to the lobby of the North Tower. “It looked like a bomb went off, and we started making our way up the stairs to rescue as many people as we could.”

As they were making there way up the floors, Firefighter Schroeder heard a huge explosion. “The elevators just blew right out. We couldn’t believe it. The plane hits 80 floors up but the elevators explode at least five minutes later? It was unreal.”

Firefighter Schroeder made it all the way up to the 23rd floor before barely hearing on the failing radios that another plane was coming in. That plane would hit the South Tower though for some reason “We were tossed like a rag doll by another explosion in our building. People were making their way down the stairwells burnt like you couldn’t believe. We were all shocked because it seemed as if there was fire everywhere, on so many floors. It just didn’t make sense”.

John Schroeder, we want to thank you for being as brave as your job requires in speaking out about your experiences on Sept/ 11th. You have set the historical record straight by explaining your story. This nation is forever grateful to you as your account will help to save and protect many more lives.
END QUOTE:

MY EDITED REPLY OF THE MESSAGE BOARD.

Excellent compilation of excerpts.

What is underlined is the subterfuge of bombs and sophisticated uses of vibration detectors and phone lines in the WTC as an "in place distribution/detonation system" used to disguise, distract from, and confuse the final uniformity of the demolitions (beyond planes/fires) that comprise the demise of the towers via the "built to demolish" scenario assembled at the 2 links following creates with my recollections of the 1990 documentary "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers"; (now missing from PBS who has made an altered recent version to obliterate the original info); and basic knowledge of high explosives, detonation systems, construction processes and engineering, welding, electrical systems and digital delay potentials. From this a scenario; comprised of many theories consistent with one another that are working together with all evidence; is developed for your understanding.

The 9-11scenario site,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

For any with an engineering background, examine an analysis of the "engineered explosive container evidence"

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11corexplosions.html#anchor1410743

It's all quite technical. Not everyone will recognize what is shared without optional presentations. So I've produced a video that helps and is uploaded to google providing a robust, graphic explanation for 5 critical aspects that remain un addressed by ALL of the default, quasi leadership of the 9-11 truth movement.

free fall
total pulverization
superfine, heated particulate
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet

EVIDENCE LINKS:
free fall
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

total pulverization
http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg

superfine, heated particulate
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:aoje
sfu83YJ:traprockpeace.org/LettertoMcDermott.doc+superfine+particulate+%22wor ld+trade+center%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's
http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif

heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet
http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.j

But an American has to be ready to realize that the US government has been infiltrated and the infiltrators used cold war technology and secrecy to BUILD the towers to demolish. Engineered explosive containers.

VIDEO:
Twin Tower Deception and Demolition I
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6240504594075547308&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition II
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5255701680091399090&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

For the passionate and energetic 9-11 activist/truthseeker, I wholeheartedly recommend visiting the message boards I've been banned from over the years when trying to share this technical understanding, ....... if you do happen to get it, and to do so in groups if possible; and do it with John Shroeders video testimony and the information of this post.

Don't forget these 2 firefighter testimonies.
http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/Engine-7.htm
http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

http://www.democraticunderground.com
http://www.guerrillanews.com/
http://boards.billmaher.com/
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/
http://ae911truth.org/community/index.php
http://boards.courttv.com/
http://truthaction.org/forum/
http://forums.randi.org/

Then perhaps you can realize there is very likely another infiltration, an infiltration of the truth movement which is exposed by the unwillingness of quasi leadership to reasonably discuss the steel reinforced cast concrete core of the Twin Towers. They have witnessed (perhaps under alternative usernames) continued reasonable and rational dominance of the issue on message boards with dynamic proof of a concrete core, while parties attempting to support the FEMA lie of steel core columns with evidence cannot do so and simply choose to use the deceptive information of an agency not created under the Constitution aided by the theft of public property, the plans to the towers, from the NYC by the ex mayor an the courts refusal to force a return of the public property to the public.

http://www.nyclu.org/node/842

BTW, for more detail on the technical, images and audio as well as discussion see,

http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854

BTW, breakfornews.com currently has an EXCELLENT audio commentary on alternative media/media manipulation, psyops reality whereby the recent "don't tase me bro" video is put into a proper light.

Also Ron Larsen, Ph.D., physics, Cornell U.; interviews me live between 9:00 AM and 10:00 AM CST, (7:00 AM to 8:00 PST) M. W, F. Here is the web radio url,

http://www.live365.com/stations/ronelar

Thank you sincerely,

Christopher A. Brown

narcolepticwatchman

03-10-2007, 11:17 PM

dean Warwick nailed it. Thats why he died.

INFRASOUND

john white

03-10-2007, 11:40 PM

narcolepticwatchman

04-10-2007, 07:22 PM

christophera

04-10-2007, 08:03 PM

911review.com is one of the few (and fewer) real 9/11 sites.

Another is http://911research.wtc7.net/

Dr Judy Wood however talks about laser beams from space, she is an illuminati straw man.

Nice to see at least one person round here with a fully working and properly serviced BS detector

The absence of a feasible and realistic explanation for what happened in 2 towers almost identically to the ground at rates compareble to free fall has created a void which is then filled with nonsense.

Such; nukes, spacebeams and even thermite reign as the dominant theories.

Although thermite was actually used but only in the basement and first floor. It is credible enough because it is evidenced to a degree, so the truth movement comprised mostly of computer nerds feels like the theory is adequately evidenced to provide an over all explanation even while NONE of the below are explained.

free fall
total pulverization
superfine, heated particulate
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet

This is how the American public is burnt out on the entire quest for truth.

The most important aspect of "burning America out on the quest for truth" is preventing a "feasible and realistic explanation for what happened" and the key to that is to prevent the truth movement from realizing that the towers had a steel reinforced cast concrete, tubular core. So that is what the quasi leadership has done with its infiltration of the truth movement.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif

christophera

07-10-2007, 04:05 AM

On breakfronews.com where Fintan Dunne has created a thread having audio interviews with me there has appeared a treasure trove of dismissive distortions by blatant disinformation agents. Late in this thread they are thick like flies.

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854

It's functional to expose the fraudulent presence of agents of disinformation when ever possible. Good exercise and people can learn about how to identify a psyops and its language characteristics.

It is clear what gamey (Gamelon) is doing, but getting a reason WHY is not likely.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc.stair.1993.nycfd.jpg

What are all those boxes with "X"s in them Chris? Oh, I see, you already said they are elevators?

Good. You just proved my point with your own evidence. See those elevators across the top and bottom? How do you access them from the INSIDE of the core when there are the stairwells blocking some of them AND the 4 banks of 6 local elevators blocking others.

LMAO!

Thanks for helping, yet again, prove my point.

Now you see why I'm not bothering to make an elevator diagram for you.

If the NYFD can't get the elevator stair layout right, how can I be expected to?

The point I'm making is about the white space between the backs of the elevators and the tenant space. Explain what that is please and why it is wider at the narrow ends. Explain the smooth square cuts in the columns of my last post also.

Or are you going to try and evade and be selective by focusing on the fire departments oversight in the schematic of the elevators?

LMAO!

gamey distorts and implies that dismissal of the fact that the part of the graphic I indicated as showing the zone of the concrete core; the white border around the elevators and stairs of the core; has nothing to do with the oversight, and gamey pretends somehow that he can dissmiss with laughter, the logic.

The fact 3,000 innocent people died as meaning nothing to you by this action you take.

You prove your core doesn't exist and that's all you have to say?

The rational irrelevance is underlined by layered uses of cognitive distortion and do not work with evidence towards any goal except dismissal of evidence which is wholly unreasonable and supports deception concealing means of murder by infiltrators of the US government. Let me break down down the manipulative distortions of cognition gamey promotes.

You prove your core doesn't exist

2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.
1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories.
2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.

The above distortions are used by cognitive therapists to interpret behaviors but can also be applied to imposition of perceptional distortions as manipulative tactic in social settings.
First, you falsely present a double false generalized premise. In the first instance, false because it is not known which tower the evidence was from, and false in the second because the position is taken that the lack of a taper disproves a concrete core. Two blatant errors

Wahahaha!!!

Then, above ridicule is applied as if the entire statement is filled with integrity and there is a rightous logical position which in reality is not occupied, and that is shown in the analysis preceding.

and that's all you have to say?

1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories.
2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.
4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.
A layered attempt to dismiss through falsely based supposition.

You're done. Nobody believes you. You have shown everyone here what a fake, contradictory, unscientific, farce you really are.

1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories.
2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.
10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.
[i]9. "Should" statements: Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.[i]
4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.
12. Entitlement: Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.
I had 30k hits on my site on 9-11 because people believe in an explanaton that they might recognize from TV or news programs. This information is a part of history regarding the concrete core. I've found a number of people that think just like I think; or that there is no doubt tha the Twin Towers had a concrete core, many easily see the concrete standing in the images knowing that is not steel. The explosions looked like concrete and not steel.

The theory of HOW the concrete facilitated a built to demolish pair of towers, one more fantastic than many, mystrey intrigue novels, is completely different from the fact of the core for myself and many others, and is the only scenario that places enough explosives where they need to be to achieve the effects seen. Perfection on a grand scale really.

gamey uses all or nothing thinking to lead the unwary into confusion when there really is none for many people that realize that cutting the columns into 40 foot pieces wasn't a part of terrorist event usually, then 10 seconds to the ground; needed, perhaps a rather extreme explanation.

Uses of evidence are proper. Anyone can email DR. Ron Larsen, Ph.D in physics from Cornell, of "libertycalling.com" and ask him if my uses of evidence are scientific. He can probably answer questions about specific evidence and how it is used at my site, algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html, as he is quite familiar with it as well as the video;

We have effect and its conditions, from the evidence backwards into the event recognizing limiting/potential factors present with uses of high explosives to reduce concrete and. steel to easily transported material/sizes.
It is a fairly simple piece of logic one one understands about building concrete strcutures with C4 coated rebar or layers in floors and the secrecy easily possible and likely because of the exnyc mayor taking the WTC docuemnta and the planes for both towers. All qite obvious as a coverup of a misreprented strcuture. It's one thing to keep anybody from inspecting steel wreakage or the site, its another to remove the structural documention for the scene of the crime.

gamey, supports the deception of means of murder by focusing with distortion first on the issue of the concrete core using whatever possible misrepresentation or opportunity to dissmiss the evidence and concept.

For the reader; have you never heard that the truth is the strangest thing of all? gamey acts like he knows the truth and does not want it around at all.

You base your theory on 17 year old memories and guesses. Just look back through this thread? Look back through all the forums that have kicked you to the curb.

4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.
10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.
2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.
1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories.
The misrepresentation here is by a blending of references and I've correct gamey on this and he is pretending I haven't done that. The concrete core is not a theory in any way, shape or form for me.

The theory I have is that the demolition was built into an engineered explosive container that looks like a tower via core and floors of cast concrete.

You blatantly ignore data and proof because it proves you wrong (whoch you've admitted to right here) and you readily admit your theory has errors.

10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.
2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.
1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories.
Again the mixing or blending, using the word [b]theorygenerallizing and distorting that the assertion different from the FEMA core is the SAME as the demo theory. Data is raw, evaluated properly produces information. Corroboration makes facts which are used for proof.

At JREF forum when I first started there I used a site I had made and uploaded to a free server http://concretecore.741.com/ (get ready for pop ups). I did this because I knew that the infiltrating faction would have agents on the web using many sophisticated psyops techniques, and that the first tactic would be to create a bout of emotional reasoning regarding built to demolish with generalizations and maximizations through ridicule, misreprestaion or collusion; as basis for trying to impel the publics rejection of the concrete core.

I made the site because I specifically wanted to limit their ability to do that. At JREF it was a real big deal to expose that I had made the concrete core site. Always working to use the disurbing concept of "built to demolish" to propel emotional reasoning. They even made a special ad hominumvideo just for me and uploaded it to youtube because the thread went 11,000+ posts and over 1/2 million reads and I was still making them look like fools technically.

They tried everything, just like gamey. But they actually knew technology and had a strange integrity when if it was pointed out technically that a certain aspect existed or did not exist with material or technique, and I was right, they started posting mass images of cats or baking recipes.

What a joke.

and the act has the same punchline.

I won't bother with the rest as much of the same distortive mechanisms are present in the finish of gameys tirade. Good exercise for truth seekers working on message boards for the recognition of high level disinformation in action.

I have done my job here as you and your fake, error filled data have been shown to everyone to be a big lie.

Just look back on your progress Chris. Nobody trusts you. Nobody comes to your defense anymore. You have no more forums to go to peddle your snake oil theory. You have been kicked to the curb by 99% of the forums out there. Every time, within a matter of months, you get banned because you contradict yourself.

The bottom line is that your core theory will NEVER become mainstream and will ALWAYS be brushed under the bed. It's a side note to everyone.

You and your silly theory amount to anything. It's been 6 years Chris and where has your theory gone? In one internet forum being discussed by 4 or 5 people.

YOU ARE DONE!

BTW the below image shows a taper to the interior box columns and concrete on the long side. The far row of interior box columns viewed on their wide face do not have the advantage of being tapered on their outside faces as do the long side. Either the base is plumb over there and steps horizontally in or it tapers back away and steel is built inwards to meet the concrete face. Either way it could have a plumb facade and step inside with the 25 foot tall ceilings of the lobby to a 6 foot wider floor on the concourse.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/core.corner.arrow.col.jpg[/quote]

john white

07-10-2007, 08:15 AM

you mean another person who, on the surface has thought about star wars beam weapons, and believed that Reagan stopped the funding to them in the 80's, and then followed his initial conditioned reaction that its all bull and straight out of star trek, and hasn't actually researched any of the theories?

Nice BS detection.......btw mine seems to go haywire everytime i read one of your posts for some strange reason. :rolleyes:

No you fool, someone whose looked at all of woods claims in detail and comprehended that shes a blithering clueless fantasist at best and who isnt mesmerised by his own imagination

Sorry mate, you b/s detector is hopelessly mis-tuned becuase you've thraped your engine with paranoid delusions. What you think is a "warning" about me is the desperate last gasp of your common sense that you are repressing and don't want to face up to: you have to want to become well before you can get better!

christophera

07-10-2007, 08:15 PM

No you fool, someone whose looked at all of woods claims in detail and comprehended that shes a blithering clueless fantasist at best and who isnt mesmerised by his own imagination

The star wars missile defense initiative fell falt on its face because the laser cannot couldn't be targeted. Finally rejected via budget analysis in 1997. My father in law did the analysis. I told him what the results would be in 1996 when he started and he rejected my assertions. No device resolves a small enough angle at those distances to point the laser and hit a missle. He apologized 18 months later.

The space beam as a method of demo is out of the question. The characteristics of the damage to the materials of the tower are completely out of character. Since we have no idea what such event would look like as it is happenning it is hard to say what happenned does not look like a space beam. My intuition tells me that stray coherent light reflected off of materials is going to cause havoc with photo and video documentation.

The point is that due to the fact that there is no plausible theory which is evidenced and consistent, openings are made for nonsense speculation which is not evidenced or consistent but the methods proposed have enough POWER to take out the towers. That quantity of power is the only thing that makes the theory presentable. Same with the nuke.

Aside from that I think wood is an MKultra victim. Cognitive processes would logically prevent a normal persons investment in the space beam theory. Particulary an engineer. Obsession based on minor hallucination and compulsion are adequate to take a child and have them operating illogically 40 years later with unconscious manipulation.

veritas2007

07-10-2007, 10:01 PM

"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it."
- André Gide (1869-1951)

christophera

08-10-2007, 03:17 AM

After the infiltration is completed and the vacuum of explanation is filled with nonsense strawmen theories, then the final debunkers can have a good laugh at the truth movement completely deflected and disapated by a massive psyops while pretending to objectively analyse the event.

#1
DRBUZZ0
Master Poster

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Command Bunker
Posts: 2,206
My Profile
The Nuclear Demolition of the WTC (even more idiotic than other theories)

Get a load of this: http://www.nucleardemolition.com/index.htm

Apparently the World Trade Center was actually nuked. Not with a bomb though... The basements of the towers contained clandestine nuclear reactors which were made supercritical to cause a catastrophic meltdown.

Strange considering that it seems that would be easy for any idiot with a geiger counter in NYC to figure out. And there have been more than a few sold in the time after, what with the whole "Dirty bomb" scares...

But what is the proof?

Quote:
In the dust, they found high levels of chemical elements that had no business being there.

Extremely rare and toxic elements.

Some of them elements that only exist in Radioactive Form.

Elements such as Strontium, Barium, Thorium, Cerium, Lanthanum and Yttrium.
Okay, first of all, none of those exist in only radioactive form except for thorium. Thorium is commonly found in small quantities in cement. Strontium and Barium and some of the others can sometimes be products of nuclear fission, but the isotopes characteristic nuclear fission are radioactive, such as Sr-90. Strontium exists in the environment and so do all the others.

If you look at the report, the highest found in a single sample of any of these was 1000 ppm. That's .1%, and that was just in one of the samples collected.

Thorium would not even be found in a reactor, unless it were a thorium-cycle reactor, which are mostly experimental and apparently the author does not think they were of this type because of the way they are described.

This is my favorite part:

Quote:
Although these elements discovered in high quantities are very rare in the general environment, one well known situation occurs in which they are very common. In fact, the elements discovered form a distinctive signature and hallmark of a certain well known chemical process.

Nuclear Fission.
Damnit. If you're going to pretend to know what you're talking about can't you at least look up the definition of "Nuclear Fission." It's not a freakin chemical process!
__________________
Once all intellect is removed, the cranium is depleted. This is when science meets stupid. Read about it at my blog:http://www.depletedcranium.com

"A good man of science is poor at philosophy" -Albert Einstein

christophera

12-10-2007, 03:57 AM

What follows is a copy of a message an a message board with light traffic where a poster expresses EXACTLY the awareness of the effect that the infiltration seeks to create. I answer and explain it.

One problem the "Truth" Movement has, is they tend to latch onto every new conspiracy that comes down the pike.

Let me assure you, I am a conspiracy theorist, to the extreme, but when these yahoos start talking aobut "No Planes hit the towers!" and such crap, they lose more people than they are ever going to convince.

Disinfo agents of the NWO work overtime to propagate these new "theories", so as to make them all seem asinine.

So very true. And it is enabled by the infiltration of the leadership of the truth movement by quasi authority that will not use evidence counter to official information.

They proclaim "inside job" to gain credibility with the truth movement masses, then proceed to use information from FEMA which can lead to no explanation for anything. In the vacuum formed by this, absurd theories can flourish.

Suddenly, because no common sense theory which does feasibly and realistically explain the event has been adopted by the quasi authority; (shown to be infiltrators because they use FEMA data and reject evidence contrary which does lend to feasible explanation); it is acceptable for them to embrace nonsense; no plane, nuke, space beam propositions. This, ........... further alienates any who might have an open mind to feasible theories.

chris_morganti

14-10-2007, 10:21 AM

Christophera you have never been able to provide any evidence of your concrete core theory, ever.
You have posted on many online forums and you have been exposed on some of them for being a fraud.

Don't come to another forum and start spreading your LIES.

christophera

15-10-2007, 07:08 AM

I'm replying to your post where it belongs.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=158289#post158289

king

23-10-2007, 07:48 AM

DARPA logo says it all as why we are given the internet in first place

http://www.dojgov.net/darpa_seal_large.gif
information awareness is on you and me and everyone else that reads and posts on internet.

how easy is to monitor our 'pulse' using this medium?
once they know what we think -- they can keep changing their plans thousand times a day, if need be.

teslafire

23-10-2007, 07:50 AM

That's why i smokes the ice cause i can't think no more

christophera

23-10-2007, 07:41 PM

christophera

31-10-2007, 07:31 PM

I received a message on myspace as an invitation to a chat room and a web radio station.

http://tnrlive.com/index.php?page=schedule

Last night called in and spoke with Mike Chambers. I explained my background and the hour documentary titled "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers", he wanted to get to the essence of my message. So I explained that FEMA had decived the world by presenting a core with steel core columns in it.

He said, "You mean to say that this was a part of the conspiracy?".
I answered, "Yes".
He said "But I've seen pictures of the core".

I told him, "You were told they were pictures of the core."

He hung up. He believes an agency not created under the constitution, and he believes it without question. This is an agency which cheney was appointed as head of one week after gwb was selected for presidency in 2000. Chambers won't even take the time to examine images, proof, I put up on the web for an interview with Jim Fetzer.

http://algoxy.com/gcn/

Mike Chambers believes an agency positioned in New York 2 days before 9-11 for an emergency exercise 2.5 miles from the WTC. An agency that made NIST generate their study WITHOUT any plans for the Twin Towers. This belief is after Guiliani took the WTC documents from the city offices, (against the law) and the courts will not observe the Freedom of Information Laws and compell their return.

TruthNetRadio.com will not share any significant truth about 9-11 if it does not use raw evidence to verify everything possible. I had the same basic experience with the chat room. I am now banned.

http://www.tnrlive.com/chat/flashchat.php

Basically, at best, the truth movement has been so saturated with misinformaton, that it cannot even listen to information other than what it has been exposed to LONG ENOUGH to be directed to images which PROVE the information.

For a very well informed and authoritive radio experience, listen to a Ph.d, Dr. Ron Larsen, physics from Cornell and I on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays here, 9am to 10 am CST

http://www.live365.com/stations/ronelar

It is not pure technical tower talk, Ron goes off on political commment excursions, but I get my words in on the built to demolish facts which explains in detail these 5 phenomena that those who use the FEMA information cannot even get close to explaining.

free fall (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
total pulverization (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg)
superfine, heated particulate (http://www.tiny.cc/oonyg)
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif)
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg)

Call TruthNetworkRadio.com, see their schedule page linked above for the 800 number ask, someone, or Mike Chambers to explain why there were steel core columns and if they are prepared to say they beleive FEMA without question.

See the video I produced which uses images from 9-11 to prove that he towers had a steel reinforced, rectangular, tubular, cast concrete core.

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition I (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6240504594075547308&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition II (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5255701680091399090&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1)

Allowing this kind of use of authority, the power of radio, to perpetuate deceptions is EXACTLY HOW we will lose our futures and all that we cherish.

christophera

07-11-2007, 02:13 AM

I received a message on myspace as an invitation to a chat room and a web radio station.

http://tnrlive.com/index.php?page=schedule

http://www.tnrlive.com/chat/flashchat.php

The same invitation was connected to a message board invite which is operated by someone named "Drew Piper". I've been banned without notice, or something, not sure. This is the message I get when trying to access the page.

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected $end in /hsphere/local/home/tinstaff/truthinformationnetwork.net/forum/viewforum.php on line 743

I'd appreciate if someone else could try accessing with these urls and seing if the same results are found.

http://truthinformationnetwork.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=21
http://truthinformationnetwork.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=13

veritas2007

07-11-2007, 10:41 PM

Sorry to say Christophera, but I can view those links.

christophera

08-11-2007, 07:53 AM

Sorry to say Christophera, but I can view those links.

Thanks!

Actually, I can view them now too. I checked them for a day or 2, must have been some temporary glitch that lasted longer than usual.

I sure would appreciate some assitence with these boards that banned me and getting the concrete core issue out. The truth movement needs to find that 1990 video, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers." That will be the beginning of the end of this political BS and war.

http://www.democraticunderground.com
http://www.guerrillanews.com/
http://boards.billmaher.com/
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/
http://ae911truth.org/community/index.php
http://boards.courttv.com/
http://truthaction.org/forum/
http://forums.randi.org/
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/
http://boards.billmaher.com/
http://www.tnrlive.com/chat/flashchat.php

The unproductive nonsense continues unabated on those boards and the quasi leadership controlling some of them will not even consider that FEMA has deceived anyone about the core despite the fact that FEMA was not formed under the Constitution or that FEMA was set up in NYC 2 days before 9-11 2.5 miles away for a major exercise. Not to mention that cheney was appointed director 1 week after gwb's selection in 2000.
Even when the concrete core allows feasible explanation for these 5 phenomena of the WTC on 9-11 which none can even reasonably touch with steel core columns in the core.

free fall (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
total pulverization (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg)
superfine, heated particulate (http://www.tiny.cc/oonyg)
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif)
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg)

BTW, I just noticed that Bazant et al had revised their report on May27, 2007 and now confirm a concrete core twice!

What Did and Did Not Cause It?
Zdenek P. Bazant
1
, Hon.M. ASCE, Jia-Liang Le
2
, Frank R. Greening
3
, and David B. Benson
4
Abstract: Previous analysis of progressive collapse showed that gravity alone suffices to explain
the overall collapse of the World Trade Center towers. However, it has not been checked whether
the allegations of controlled demolition by planted explosives have any scientific merit. The present
analysis proves that they do not. The video record available for the first few seconds of collapse
agrees with the motion history calculated from the differential equation of progressive collapse but
disproves the free fall hypothesis (on which the aforementioned allegations rest). Although, due to
absence of experimental crushing data for the lightweight concrete used, the theory of comminution
cannot predict the size range of pulverized concrete particles, it is shown that the observed size
range (0.01 mm – 0.1 mm) is fully consistent with this theory and is achievable by collapse driven
gravity alone, and that only about 7% of the total gravitational energy converted to kinetic energy
of impacts would have sufficed to pulverize all the concrete slabs and core walls (while at least 158
tons of TNT per tower, installed into many small holes drilled into each concrete floor slab and core
wall, would have been needed to produce the same degree of pulverization). The exit speed of air
ejected from the building by the crushing front of gravitational collapse must have attained, near
the ground, 465 mph (208 m/s) on the average, and fluctuations must have reached the speed of
sound. This explains loud booms and wide spreading of pulverized concrete and glass fragments,
and shows that the lower margin of dust cloud could not have coincided with the crushing front.
The resisting upward forces due to pulverization and air ejection, neglected in previous studies, are
found to be negligible during the first few seconds of collapse but not insignificant near the end
of crush-down (these forces extended the crush-down duration by about 4%; they augmented, by
about 25%, the resisting force due to column buckling at the end of crush-down, and doubled that
force at the beginning of crush-up). The calculated crush-down duration is found to match a logical
interpretation of seismic record, while the free fall duration is found to be in conflict.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:H5djFQBfSzsJ:www.civil.northwestern .edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/00%2520WTC%2520Collapse%2520-%2520What%2520did%2520%26%2520Did%2520Not%2520Caus e%2520It%2520-%2520Revised%25206-22-07.pdf+Bazant&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

This is the latest paper by Bazant et al, the first one was included in the NIST report

masonfree party

08-11-2007, 09:33 PM

i noticed some of my previous website links got deleted...nothing changes...another site infested with zionist mind controlled shills just like nineeleven.co.uk and the glastonbury/blackpool crew

christophera

25-11-2007, 07:46 PM

A very sad fact is that what seemed to be one of the forums with the highest integrity has a serious problem. Exactly what that is, is very hard to tell. Attitude, misinformation or worse. Hard to say.

I posted the following thread, now it has been removed without notice.

http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showforum=11

Failure To Define Methods Of Event Leaves the door open to nonsense

The movements failure to use evidence and agree upon the methods that brought 2, 1.350 foot towers to the ground in about 10 seconds leave the door open for nonsense theories. The nonsense theories unchallenged by feasible and accepted descriptions of methods are read by those who have some question of the official story and MAKE THEM TURN AWAY from the quest for truth.

They view the movements effort as a pitiful, unsupported batch of complaints that does not deserve the support of even structural engineers and demolitions expert.

There is a complex and dense psychological operation being brought to bear on the truth movement. It was designed years ago and there was a period of preparation too, all of it done in secrecy and paid for by our tax dollars.

The dynamics of the deception almost totally escape us as we wallow in our dynamic social fears created and promoted by a complicit media stretching back 3 decades with density. Simple facts cannot be utilized in our spiritual fear that blinded us to the ultimate forms of secrecy long ago. Threads of awareness left in our knowledge base were removed almost a century ago, and we do not even know it, or what was basically removed.

http://www.realityzone.com/hiddenagenda2.html

And, if one were to attempt to bring some information, a silence would ensue. No one would be able to take up a discussion as they would be locked in a seizure of spiritual fear basically invisible as to its origins.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg

Remaining in a purely physical realm, I have attempted to bring simple structural information to the movement which is completely supported by published documents of engineers, the architect of the Twin Tower and photograph of 9-11, but it remains unused, indeed rejected, in an environment cultivated by the psychological operation which creates acceptability by quacking noises we want to hear like "demolition" but those quacking are elite leadership and accountable to none, only the group that gives them the attention which makes them quasi leadership creates their authority. And that group is controlled by the social fears which were initiated with rounds of ridicule. They will deny that these fear control them.

Yes, ridicule. Ridicule aimed at any information which was meaningful and could be used to create a structure of understanding which might be used by the group to create unity.

So when the nonsense theories grace the pages of forums ostensibly honorable, there is no good alternative, only criticism. There is no good, sound, logical, evidence alternative which creates a feasible explanation making the nonsense unacceptable. So therefore the nonsense returns and is indeed enabled to be perpetuated by any who might be naive enough to consider it.

I've done everything one person can do stop it, but without the alliance of other thinking, reasoning persons who DO USE evidence, a feasible explanation cannot be made to prevail in the social structure of the truth movement

I found a piece of corroborating evidence and posted an excerpt from it as well.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/GrabbeExplosionsEvidence.pdf

Photos of many of these cars were posted by Prof. Judy Wood, who claims that they show damage from directed-energy laserbeam weapons. The laser-beam proposal was strongly challenged recently, although without proposing alternative models. Neither described the cause examined here.

christophera

26-11-2007, 07:12 AM

It turns out that thread was not removed, but moved to an area where only members can view it.

in my opinion, the obervations of the post would be invaluable to the lurker looking for some clarity in explanation of the nonsense that is overwhelming the search for truth.

Clearly that board values control or insulation of the public from things they themselves do not understnad or cannot evaluate over carefully thought out strategy designed to increase the size of the movement by virtue of better, more relevant information.

christophera

15-12-2007, 05:33 AM

It appears as the no planes misinformation campaign has been unleashed in force on this forum.

The door has been left open to the nonsense by truth seekers who cannot get past their social fears, being a part of the group, complying with the group perceptions for social comfort,

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/sheep4.gif

and they are failing to use evidence.

HERE, is evidence of 9-11 used in a video to provide a description of the main deception plaguing the truth movement.

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition I (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6240504594075547308&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition II (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5255701680091399090&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1)

killtown

16-12-2007, 11:05 AM

It appears as the no planes misinformation campaign has been unleashed in force on this forum.
Yep, you caught us. Good job. Way to expose us like no one else has been able to yet. You should get a reward.

:rolleyes:

masonfree party

16-12-2007, 11:44 AM

CHRISTOPHERA...wake up dude and www.checktheevidence.com

christophera

17-12-2007, 05:19 AM

CHRISTOPHERA...wake up dude and www.checktheevidence.com

The logic of the perps conducting no planes is so flawed that it belies credibility that anyone who purports to be a conspiracy investigator could possibly invest in it.

Therefore, I am so awake I have a massive website about waking up. Before I show you mine, you show me yours. If you don't have one, then you are deluded and obsessed about the "No Planes Theory". So I say to you, "get real."

1.)The perps NEED the plans, otherwise a demo is OBVIOUS.

Explain how the above is not absolutely a fact, before you do anything else.

Then, consider this.

2.)Just because video fakery exists, does not mean the video of planes hitting the towers was faked.

Then, last but not least.

3.)If the planes were faked by video, then IT WAS A DEMO. Now, why are you not arguing for demo instead of for video fakery?

killtown

17-12-2007, 08:22 AM

The logic of the perps conducting no planes is so flawed that it belies credibility that anyone who purports to be a conspiracy investigator could possibly invest in it.
Well I wrote an article about the logic of using no planes at the WTC, so why don't you try to debunk why I think no planes is the MOST logical:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15057

dave52

17-12-2007, 09:26 AM

3.)If the planes were faked by video, then IT WAS A DEMO. Now, why are you not arguing for demo instead of for video fakery?

I read this kinda thinking time and time again. No Planes does not = no demolition.

There is no doubt that the towers were brought down artificially, the planes / tv fakery thing is another layer. The method used to bring about the demolition of the towers is yet another layer.

Ogres are like onions...

boots

17-12-2007, 10:43 AM

Christophera, your talking a load of crap!:eek:

STEVEN E JONES IS THE AGENT:(

Thermite/Thermate - Did not bring down the Twin Towers.

You have been taken in by the disinfo. Explain the molten metal poring out of the building? As well as the white smoke indicative of a high burning substance?:eek: Steven Jones an agent of the NWO Geezz doing a good job of hiding the facts?

boots

17-12-2007, 10:50 AM

NPT going to get a lot of people onboard with that one "DEbunked" how many times ? Your F**king leading the masses in so many different direction your going to fuck the whole thing up good job FFs.

shredmasteruk

17-12-2007, 12:29 PM

Explain the molten metal poring out of the building? As well as the white smoke indicative of a high burning substance?:eek: Steven Jones an agent of the NWO Geezz doing a good job of hiding the facts?

Molten metal ?

What sort of molten metal ? Whats its chemical composition, what temperature was it at ? why in the infamous picture of a digger pulling out something which is red and glowing from the debris pile, is the steel claw from the digger at normal temperature, if its pulled out something which is molten ?

Here's a good page about molten metal:
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

christophera

17-12-2007, 05:53 PM

Well I wrote an article about the logic of using no planes at the WTC, so why don't you try to debunk why I think no planes is the MOST logical:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15057

Where at,

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2007/05/why-they-didnt-use-planes-to-hit-wtc.html

do you explain WHY like you say you do at your link. I did not see an explanation, I saw convoluted analysis of 9-11 at the WTC. Just copy and paste WHY, please.

christophera

17-12-2007, 05:59 PM

The logic of the perps conducting no planes is so flawed that it belies credibility that anyone who purports to be a conspiracy investigator could possibly invest in it.

Therefore, I am so awake I have a massive website about waking up. Before I show you mine, you show me yours. If you don't have one, then you are deluded and obsessed about the "No Planes Theory". So I say to you, "get real."

1.)The perps NEED the plans, otherwise a demo is OBVIOUS.

Explain how the above is not absolutely a fact, before you do anything else.

Then, consider this.

2.)Just because video fakery exists, does not mean the video of planes hitting the towers was faked.

Then, last but not least.

3.)If the planes were faked by video, then IT WAS A DEMO. Now, why are you not arguing for demo instead of for video fakery?

I read this kinda thinking time and time again. No Planes does not = no demolition.

Correct, but it sure as hell distracts from demolition so why focus on it at all when it hardly matters? What about explanation to 1.)? AND then 3.), why are you NOT focusing on demo?

There is no doubt that the towers were brought down artificially, the planes / tv fakery thing is another layer. The method used to bring about the demolition of the towers is yet another layer.

Ogres are like onions...

NPT really alienates people and does a huge disservice to those seriously investigating demo. It causes major additional cognitive dissonance within a subject that already has that problem.
Basically, if you want the public to dismiss and forget 9-11 truth, then argue NPT.

dave52

17-12-2007, 10:47 PM

1.)The perps NEED the plans, otherwise a demo is OBVIOUS.

No, they need you to believe there were planes, they don't actually need planes...

2.)Just because video fakery exists, does not mean the video of planes hitting the towers was faked.

True, but that's not an argument either way, it's just a statement.

3.)If the planes were faked by video, then IT WAS A DEMO. Now, why are you not arguing for demo instead of for video fakery?

Actually, I argue for both (althought the method of demolition is up for debate).

...why focus on it at all when it hardly matters?

The reason for bringing tv fakery into sharp focus is because it widens the net when looking for guilty parties. If you follow the Loose Change route, even if America wakes up and there are charges brought, you only actually catch a tiny number of people on the periphery. I would like to see all the guilty people tried and brought to justice, not just the designated scape goats. Incidently, I don't believe this will ever happen, but hey, you gotta push for what's right.

NPT really alienates people and does a huge disservice to those seriously investigating demo. It causes major additional cognitive dissonance within a subject that already has that problem.
Basically, if you want the public to dismiss and forget 9-11 truth, then argue NPT.

This makes me laugh alot. Tomorrow, when you're at work, take a straw poll around the office and count up the number of people who are willing to walk on the White House and demand justice for 9/11. Then take another count of the people who think you are mental. We are seriously on the fringes here as it is, you think NPT is gonna put anyone off more than they already are...?

christophera

19-12-2007, 12:45 AM

3.)If the planes were faked by video, then IT WAS A DEMO. Now, why are you not arguing for demo instead of for video fakery?

Actually, I argue for both (althought the method of demolition is up for debate).

Which shows you are willing to compromise the quest for truth of "WHAT HAPPENED" in order to promote something almost no one is willing to believe. Such is illogical making your activities unreasonable.

The reason for bringing tv fakery into sharp focus is because it widens the net when looking for guilty parties.

It is not logical to "look for guilty parties" BEFORE it is determined "WHAT HAPPENED".

The logical order of determination is;

1.) What happened

2.)How it happened

3.)Who did it

What you suggest below WILL NEVER happen with the activities and behavior you are exhibiting above and it appears to be designed that way, and then, below, you pre emptively state such is expected.

If you follow the Loose Change route, even if America wakes up and there are charges brought, you only actually catch a tiny number of people on the periphery. I would like to see all the guilty people tried and brought to justice, not just the designated scape goats. Incidently, I don't believe this will ever happen, but hey, you gotta push for what's right.

Above, I've described what is LOGICAL, REASONABLE and RIGHT". Will you act accordingly?

This makes me laugh alot.

You are promoting a cognitive distortion of emotional reasoning.

8. Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation.

Tomorrow, when you're at work, take a straw poll around the office and count up the number of people who are willing to walk on the White House and demand justice for 9/11. Then take another count of the people who think you are mental. We are seriously on the fringes here as it is, you think NPT is gonna put anyone off more than they already are...?

Above you are promoting another cognitive distortion of "Over generalization", particularly by the use of the word "mental" which you have not defined.

2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.

And that is done with the intent of "minimizing".

4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.

killtown

19-12-2007, 12:58 AM

christophera

19-12-2007, 01:10 AM

Where at,

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2007/05/why-they-didnt-use-planes-to-hit-wtc.html

do you explain WHY like you say you do at your link. I did not see an explanation, I saw convoluted analysis of 9-11 at the WTC. Just copy and paste WHY, please.

What was "convoluted" about my analysis?

You did not copy and paste the "WHY" or explanation that you state you provide at your link. Instead you are asking me to track your convolutions.

Here is what you provide as an answer to "WHY?" at your blog.

BELIEVABILITY

Most people who believe 9/11 was an inside job probably believe that the WTC 1, 2, and 7 were pulled (i.e. brought down by some kind of controlled demolition method) and therefore should also agree that the collapse of all three of these buildings was arguably the most important goal of the perps that day.

That explains WHY planes were needed for peoples perceptions, which we do not need explanation for, but not logically WHY the planes were faked in video rather than using real planes.

killtown

19-12-2007, 01:14 AM

christophera

19-12-2007, 01:30 AM

Maybe you should READ my entire article (http://killtown.blogspot.com/2007/05/why-they-didnt-use-planes-to-hit-wtc.html) and then post which of my analysis is "convoluted" here:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15057

Maybe you should just simply post WHY the perps decided faked planes were better than real planes right here.

If it is not convoluted, it should be VERY easy.

killtown

19-12-2007, 02:01 AM

You are the one who insulted my analysis, so you can tell everybody why my analysis was "convoluted" here:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15057

christophera

19-12-2007, 04:31 AM

You are the one who insulted my analysis, so you can tell everybody why my analysis was "convoluted" here:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15057

Pointing out facts cannot be termed an insult.

Clearly, if you cannot post WHY the perps chose to fake video of planes, ..... that either you cannot, OR, the attempt to explain is too convoluted to articulate.

I shall not be posting in your thread which promotes a theory that cannot be explained and verified logically.

Please consider what the promotion of this theory is doing to the public perception of 9-11 truth seeking.

killtown

19-12-2007, 06:45 AM

1) Pointing out facts cannot be termed an insult.

2) Clearly, if you cannot post WHY the perps chose to fake video of planes, ..... that either you cannot, OR, the attempt to explain is too convoluted to articulate.

3) I shall not be posting in your thread which promotes a theory that cannot be explained and verified logically.

4) Please consider what the promotion of this theory is doing to the public perception of 9-11 truth seeking.
1) When will be seeing these "facts"?

2) I posted the link to my article. It's not my fault you are too lazy to read it.

3) You mean you won't be posting in my thread because you can't debunk the logic behind no planes?

4) And what is it doing to the public perception? (this ought to be a hoot)

christophera

19-12-2007, 07:05 AM

1) When will be seeing these "facts"?

You have already participated in the fact here.

Maybe you should just simply post WHY the perps decided faked planes were better than real planes right here.

If it is not convoluted, it should be VERY easy.

and your continued failure to post WHY the perps decided to fake the planes in video adds to the fact.

2) I posted the link to my article. It's not my fault you are too lazy to read it.

Here is why they didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC:

BELIEVABILITY

Most people who believe 9/11 was an inside job probably believe that the WTC 1, 2, and 7 were pulled (i.e. brought down by some kind of controlled demolition method) and therefore should also agree that the collapse of all three of these buildings was arguably the most important goal of the perps that day.
The official reason why the Twin Towers collapsed and thereby causing the WTC 7 to collapse was that large aircraft (specifically Boeing 767's) loaded with lots of fuel crashed into the towers at high speeds and exploded causing extensive internal damage and then the resulting fire weakened the steel causing the top sections to collapse down thereby smashing the rest of the buildings to pieces and then debris from the falling North Tower pelted the WTC 7 causing massive structural damage and causing it to catch fire and collapse. Most people bought the official story obviously, so the official reason as to why the Twin Towers and WTC 7 collapsed was to most people believable.

I just visited your blog and you were supposed to say why "Here is why they didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC:" in your blog but instead you told us something obvious, that people needed to see planes to believe the official story. You didn't tell us WHY the perps "didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC" and instead decided to fake the planes on video.

3) You mean you won't be posting in my thread because you can't debunk the logic behind no planes?

You have debunked it yourself by failing to produce a logical reason for the perps to fake planes with video.

4) And what is it doing to the public perception? (this ought to be a hoot)

People are dismissing 9-11 truth seekers as nut cases for even considering there were "no planes". Laugh if you don't care about the truth.

This is not a put down. This is serious. I think you are sincere in what you are doing. Not a disinfo agent by any means. I'm logically doing this because you actually think you have explained, somewhere, logically, WHY, the perps decided to fake planes rather than use real ones. You haven't.

You read this page.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg

Then you go to a hypnotist, a good one, and tell them what you think about planes at the WTC on 9-11. Then ask them to hypnotize you and to find out why you believe there were no planes. Be prepared to spend some time and some money. Then come back and talk about NPT.

dave52

19-12-2007, 10:12 AM

1.) What happened

There were explosions (possibly due to some form of impact) at WTC1 and 2, after a while both towers collapsed in a manner that was unexpected. Later that day, WTC7 collapsed also.

2.)How it happened

The initial explosions were either due to planted explosives, or by an impact by some form of projectile. The subsequent collapse may have been initiated by explosives or by some form of directed energy weapon. My feeling is that, if people are going to run with a traditional controlled demolition, or with a thermite initiated demolition, flying a projectile at high speed into an explosive laden building will produce random results at best. This is the reason I lean towards no planes.

If you watch the collapse of WTC7 and compare it to WTC1 and 2's collapses, it looks very routine indeed. This is the reason I lean towards DEW at WTC1 and 2.

3.)Who did it

Good question. I don't know. But, if you can establish the How, it will make the Who easier. This answer could range from 19 Arabs all the way through to multiple military contractors working on advanced weapons technology supported by factions within NASA, the Media and the NSA. Did Bush know anything about it? Probably not.

you are promoting another cognitive distortion of "Over generalization", particularly by the use of the word "mental" which you have not defined.

Mental - as in, "You think 9/11 was an inside job? - you're crazy!". Which is a phrase I hear all the time. How can we be marginalised any more than we are?

christophera

19-12-2007, 10:53 PM

There were explosions (possibly due to some form of impact) at WTC1 and 2, after a while both towers collapsed in a manner that was unexpected. Later that day, WTC7 collapsed also.

Once again you've presented a generalization. You and I have no problem with this but the public does and the only way past it is to totally explain what kind of explosions. What is seen is far more uniform and total that anything seen ever.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg
it were video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5860825099435530591&q=5860825099435530591&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

The initial explosions were either due to planted explosives,

I've disproved you statement by the image and video links above. Clearly you do not know enough about high explosives and the issues of placement, then distribution, to analyze the events seen and heard. You do know they were explosions, but that is it. You cannot define what type of explosion would create what is seen and heard within the structure that existed, which you probably cannot define even approximately.

or by an impact by some form of projectile.

This proves what I said above.

The subsequent collapse may have been initiated by explosives or by some form of directed energy weapon.

This doubles the proof.

My feeling is that, if people are going to run with a traditional controlled demolition, or with a thermite initiated demolition,

This triples the proof.

flying a projectile at high speed into an explosive laden building will produce random results at best.

This makes sense.

This is the reason I lean towards no planes.

This does not make sense.

If you watch the collapse of WTC7 and compare it to WTC1 and 2's collapses, it looks very routine indeed.

WTC 7 had shape charges or perhaps thermite installed. It was completely different as an all steel building whereas the Twin Towers had a steel reinforced cast concrete core.

Do not even try to refute that without an image of steel core columns in the core area from 9-11 showing them at some elevation above the ground. I have about 1/2 dozen images that show what can only be concrete, or its components which SHOULD show steel core columns if they existed, (which they did not).

This is the reason I lean towards DEW at WTC1 and 2.

If you had evidence showing what concrete and steel structures looked like that were disintegrated by DEW weapons, that would be EVIDENCE and REASON to lean that way. What you have cited IS NOT REASONABLE.

Good question. I don't know. But, if you can establish the How, it will make the Who easier. This answer could range from 19 Arabs all the way through to multiple military contractors working on advanced weapons technology supported by factions within NASA, the Media and the NSA. Did Bush know anything about it? Probably not.

Logical answer Dave, but way premature. The point of my list of sequence was to prevent pointless speculation. There is another matter related to 1.)What happened?. That is a definition of whatever happened to what, or the question of the towers structure. In other words if someone attempts to conclude collapse, they had better be capable of defining exactly what collapsed.

Therefore another matter intrinsic to the issue of 1.)What happened

What was the design and construction of the towers?

Mental - as in, "You think 9/11 was an inside job? - you're crazy!". Which is a phrase I hear all the time. How can we be marginalized any more than we are?

I do not use the term "inside job". It is far too general and completely neglects a simple fact of idealism that we cannot ever loose site of. Ideally we are after accountable, legitimate government. We intend to see it created from whatever we've got now, which will not qualify. "Inside job" implies that the US government conducted 9-11. It completely neglects a very competent view that the government has been infiltrated and that the infiltrators did 9-11. Seeing the US government as infiltrated respects the many good, law abiding Americans that are employed within government that hold the ideals of legitimacy as highly as you or I do. Using the term "inside job" alienates them and in absolute practicality, we need them.

Let us not be worried how to be more marginalized, let us strive to be less marginalized, ...... and, I'm defining that in its essence with this post.

BTW, good post. It presented your positions clearly and gave me something to reply to that was comprehensive. Please examine my site.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

and realize that it actually provides feasible explanation for all of these aspects of 9-11

free fall (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
total pulverization (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg)
superfine, heated particulate (http://www.tiny.cc/oonyg)
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif)
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg)

The FEMA and the steel core column lie cannot be used to explain anything.

Support for the steel core columns is support for the impossible to obscure the possible.

What happened was better than a demolition, it was BUILT TO DEMOLISH.

All five of the above phenomena are feasibly explained and NONE of those who believe in the FEMA lie can feasibly explain even one.

free fall (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
Concrete can be fractured instantly to fall freely by a small amount of properly placed explosives. With C4 coated rebar and C4 poured into the floor corrugations that also acted as cutting charges for the interior box columns, the only full height columns that existed, free fall was assured. The security phone lines were used to distribute an audio tone to digital counters on every floor and every 40 foot of core. Floors were timed with 75 millisecond delays and core sections of 40 foot at 300 milliseconds.

total pulverization (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg)
The above free fall explanation takes care of the building but it needs to be said that when the floors blow and the 300 milliseconds delay of the core blast occurs, the contents of the building are subjected to an outward blast of hard stone aggregates that shred everything and blow it out the windows explaining the 3-5cm bone fragments on roofs 400 feet away.

superfine, heated particulate (http://www.tiny.cc/oonyg)
With an engineered explosive container made from concrete having the explosive coating on the centralized rebar, the pressures from optimum containment are absolutely maximized. Optimized pressures create a maximum shock wave lending to the total pulverization described in the above paragraph but also creating the 10-100 micron sized particles that are super heated to rise and form the distinctive pyroclastic flow. This also causes some of the iron of the rebar to be bonded to molecules of silica and calcium as seen in the dust analysis.

smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif)
The C4 filled corrugations died out into special corner plates that were described in the 1990 documentary as stiffeners for the floor to column joint. There were 6 plates per column, installed in 2 layers all the way around the tower every 3rd floor made from tempered steel, 3/8 thick I think. If these were high pressure gas guides a collapsing plane of high pressure gas would surround the column and slice through it performing as an optimized cutting charge built into the floors (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1233383). Good evidence is shown with a ruptured column (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/explorupturedcolumn.gif). This also provides a very good explanation for the large quantity of iron microspheres as dark columns of iron particulate seen in images are blown out the tops of the severed but still standing interior box columns inside the clouds of debris in the surrounding demolition. (http://mouv4x8.club.fr/11Sept01/A0069b_3_towerexplo1_explosion_below.jpg)

heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg)
Some of the cutting charges failed due to exposure to bad weather during construction. When this happened, large assemblies were intact and the webs of floor "I" beams against the core; still connected to floor beams going out to the perimeter columns, still connected by spandrel plates in the 3 story panels delivered for assembly; were subected to the expanding debris wave of the concrete core detonating which cause a billowing of the web of an "I" beam showing huge pressure applied horizontally (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/pre.cut.salvage.box.column.jpg)

Every phenomena explained in detail. All it depends upon is the infiltration of the US government before 1966 by a faction capable and secrecy adequate to design and construct such building for the purpose of eventual demolition.

dave52

20-12-2007, 09:32 AM

I've disproved you statement by the image and video links above.

Actually, I was talking about the initial explosions that were supposedly brought about by the impact of planes - that picture is of the first collapse, but hey.. ;)

So, to get this straight, you are suggesting that the twin towers were designed and constructed in a manner and with materials that basically created two great big bombs. And all that was needed was the opportunity to set them off...

So the plan had always been in place...?

This is a new angle, and presumably this is your theory, which is why you are so vehemently pushing it. That's cool, ok. This is something I will read into and I will spend some time looking at your site - thanks for the link.

In the context of no-planes, assuming that the twin towers were really big explosions waiting to happen, do you not aggree with my statement about the risk of flying large planes into them...?

Anders Lindman

20-12-2007, 11:15 AM

Of course there are disinfo agents. Does anybody genuinely believe that the powers that be did not anticipate some sort of 9/11 truth movement? Of course they did, they knew it inside out years before the towers even came down.

George W. Bush for one, the most well-informed person on the planet, with an integrity and honesty that would make Dalai Lama blush, publicly proclaiming, in mainstream media, that he saw the first plane hit the WTC on television, when in fact the first plane hitting the WTC was never shown on television, at least not on public television, at the time he said he saw it: "The TV was obviously on" he said. Not at all obvious to me. That, if anything, smacks of deliberate confusion propaganda.

dave52

20-12-2007, 11:44 AM

George W. Bush for one, the most well-informed person on the planet, with an integrity and honesty that would make Dalai Lama blush, publicly proclaiming, in mainstream media, that he saw the first plane hit the WTC on television, when in fact the first plane hitting the WTC was never shown on television, at least not on public television, at the time he said he saw it: "The TV was obviously on" he said. Not at all obvious to me. That, if anything, smacks of deliberate confusion propaganda.

To me that smacks of deliberate placing of Patsies, along with the Siverstein "Pull It" quote and the Cheney "Of course the orders still stand" episode. The true perps, the real men behind the curtain will never get caught.

christophera

20-12-2007, 05:40 PM

Actually, I was talking about the initial explosions that were supposedly brought about by the impact of planes - that picture is of the first collapse, but hey.. ;)

So, to get this straight, you are suggesting that the twin towers were designed and constructed in a manner and with materials that basically created two great big bombs. And all that was needed was the opportunity to set them off...

So the plan had always been in place...?

This is a new angle, and presumably this is your theory, which is why you are so vehemently pushing it. That's cool, ok. This is something I will read into and I will spend some time looking at your site - thanks for the link.

In the context of no-planes, assuming that the twin towers were really big explosions waiting to happen, do you not aggree with my statement about the risk of flying large planes into them...?

Flying planes into towers that have explosives encapsulated in the concrete as engineered explosive containers will not detonate the explosives. They require pressures of high explosives to detonate.

It will take an explosives expert to confirm this, but what is seen here,

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg

Is far too uniform for mere planted explosives. If you could get that effect with simple planted explosives, the amount of time it would take to place and distribute the explosives needed to get that effect would be huge.

The 1990 video "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers" has ALL the clues needed to KNOW that indeed, the towers were built to demolish.

PBS was infiltrated in about 1995 and all history of the documentary was removed from their database. It's existence has been confirmed.

Dr. Ron Larsen Ph.d recounts efforts to confirm the DOC's existence and interceptions of copies in this audio download.

6/20/07 interview (documentary search update 17:50 minutes)
http://www.mediafire.com/?dogzudruzem

The 9-11 truth movement has been infiltrated and there is a segment which has the agenda of preventing the movement from focusing on finding this video. There are probably a thousand copies of the 2 VHS tapes on Americans shelves but those people do not know the issues, they are not of the truth movement and the truth movement is being diverted from focusing on this matter.

killtown

20-12-2007, 08:38 PM

1) I just visited your blog and you were supposed to say why "Here is why they didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC:" in your blog but instead you told us something obvious, that people needed to see planes to believe the official story. You didn't tell us WHY the perps "didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC" and instead decided to fake the planes on video.

You have debunked it yourself by failing to produce a logical reason for the perps to fake planes with video.

2) People are dismissing 9-11 truth seekers as nut cases for even considering there were "no planes". Laugh if you don't care about the truth.

3) I'm logically doing this because you actually think you have explained, somewhere, logically, WHY, the perps decided to fake planes rather than use real ones. You haven't.

4) You read this page.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg

Then you go to a hypnotist, a good one, and tell them what you think about planes at the WTC on 9-11. Then ask them to hypnotize you and to find out why you believe there were no planes. Be prepared to spend some time and some money. Then come back and talk about NPT.
1) I did, you obviously didn't read my entire blogpost.

2) Proof?

3) Yes I have. See #1.

4) Why do you planers always have to resort to personal attacks?

christophera

20-12-2007, 08:53 PM

1) I did, you obviously didn't read my entire blogpost.

2) Proof?

3) Yes I have. See #1.

4) Why do you planers always have to resort to personal attacks?

Like I said, you think you've said "why" but, ....... you have not. You could do so in a few sentences right here if it was possible to logically explain why the perps chose to fake planes rather than use real ones, but it is not logically possible so you will not.

I've recommended you go see a hypnotist to find out why you believe that there were no planes. That, ........ is not a personal attack, that, ..... is logical strategy under conditions.

christophera

24-12-2007, 07:22 PM

Do people ever wonder why the guy that can produce images of the structural core of the Twin Towers that actually fits a description from the architect of the Towers (http://web.archive.org/web/20040807085840/http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3069641/) and a civil engineer registered in 12 states (see chap.2.1) (http://www.ncsea.com/downloads/wtcseerp.pdf) is banned from Loose Change?

Loose Change Forum
Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

The error returned was:

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Does it seem strange that the ban is in place while an explanation for these 5 factors that no one else has an adequate explanation for are feasibly explained by using the structural core described?

free fall (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
total pulverization (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg)
superfine, heated particulate (http://www.tiny.cc/oonyg)
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif)
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg)

christophera

13-01-2008, 04:00 AM

Christophera... yer concrete core theory is crazier than the space beams... and I'M NOT KIDDING!

You also have not presented any evidence.

I challenge you to start a thread where your evidence for the steel core columns is featured. Be aware that I know that images of the construction are misrepresented in attempts to provide evidence for the columns so you MUST use images from 9-11 to corroborate ANY construction images.

Apparently 28th kingdom cannot back up there criticism at all. Even with the simple act of starting a thread to display the evidence that should rightfully be IN HAND to make such a statement.

Typical non accountable behavior supporting and environment of NO EXPLANATION, as is found with the steel core columns lie.

killtown

13-01-2008, 11:06 AM

What Does The Infiltration Of The Truth Movement Look Like?
http://www.plumbingstore.com/images/alliedbrass-mirror-dm-4.jpg

christophera

13-01-2008, 09:00 PM

http://www.plumbingstore.com/images/alliedbrass-mirror-dm-4.jpg

You attempt to assert I am an infiltrator. Logically you must be capable of providing definition of your assertion rather than just a vague assertion of such.

What purpose does my supposed infiltration accomplish?

Exactly what actions of my actions supposedly represent those of an infiltrator?

If supposedly I am an infiltrator, which faction sent me and what did they specifically hope to accomplish?

Are you aware that I can answer all of those questions logically and reasonably with regard to your behaviors?

liltroofer

14-01-2008, 05:47 AM

christophera, you seem very certain of your beliefs. killtown also does. is it possible that you are both right and neither are incapable of seeing that?

where is the disagreement here, and why are you both "disinfo" for merely disagreeing?

cruise4

14-01-2008, 06:17 AM

Twin Tower Blueprints:
http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/plans/frames.html

http://www.infowars.net/pictures/mar07/280307construction.jpg

christophera

14-01-2008, 06:48 AM

christophera, you seem very certain of your beliefs.

I know there was a steel reinforced cast concrete core from viewing a 1990 2 hour documentary titled, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers". Images and other evidence substantiate the fact. The fact is logical for many reason, one is that concrete is the most common building material in the world. Another is that concrete provides the needed rigidity to resist flex and torsion in 120 MPH winds.

I believe the towers were built to demolish. It turns out the only feasible explanations for what happened to the towers utilize the built to demolish scenario.

killtown also does.

killtown cannot even give a logical reason why the perps would fake video rather an use real planes to impact the towers and provide cover for the demolition.

is it possible that you are both right

No, in some situations both parties of an argument can be right relating to different aspects, but both will be logically supported.

and neither are incapable of seeing that?

I am fully capable of demonstrating with explanation exactly why it is totally illogical that planes be faked in video rather than using real one. I have done so in this thread very well. killtown has failed to logically support WHY planes would be faked by the perps and what advantage would come from such activity.

where is the disagreement here, and why are you both "disinfo" for merely disagreeing?

I feel killtown sincerely believes there were no planes. However, if killtown cannot produce a logical reason for this, then killtown is simply wrong and not operating with the intent of disinformation. I sincerely believe, and can provide circumstantial evidence to show that one of the purposes of MKultra was to influence a fairly large number of people to have deeply held beliefs that would be used to confuse and derail meaningful unification in the 9-11 truth movement. If this was the case killtown would be unable to provide a logical reason for the perps to fake planes.

Here I am trying to get the logic of the notion from killtown a few pages back.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8808&page=8

I just visited your blog and you were supposed to say why "Here is why they didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC:" in your blog but instead you told us something obvious, that people needed to see planes to believe the official story. You didn't tell us WHY the perps "didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC" and instead decided to fake the planes on video.

Like I said, you think you've said "why" but, ....... you have not. You could do so in a few sentences right here if it was possible to logically explain why the perps chose to fake planes rather than use real ones, but it is not logically possible so you will not.

I've recommended you go see a hypnotist to find out why you believe that there were no planes. That, ........ is not a personal attack, that, ..... is logical strategy under conditions.

Here is a very comprehensive page on MKultra.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg

christophera

14-01-2008, 06:59 AM

Twin Tower Blueprints:
http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/plans/frames.html

http://www.infowars.net/pictures/mar07/280307construction.jpg

Here is a screen shot enlarged from A-A-159.tiff showing the revision table and what is seen is impossible with a scanned pencil drawing. Those characters are not from any alphabet and the top one has a 1 pixel wide vertical space that is perfectly straight. Normal scanned penciled initials and other data are seen around them. No comparison.
The lower anomaly has a horizontal line 1 pixel wide. Such is not possible with a pencil. Tnly digital graphics can do that. The plans are fake

http://algoxy.com/psych/planimages/A-A-159.revtab.jpg

The plans you link to are preliminary blueprints made by Robertson to give to Yamasaki for evaluation. silverstein has had them scanned and fake revision tables were pasted into them to make them look as though they might have undergone the extensive review and revision needed for such a project.

Here is the steel reinforced cast concrete tubular core of WTC 2.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif

guiliani took the WTC documents from the NYC offices illegally and courts will not force their return.

NYC mayor took the plans and hid them while the courts protect their hiding (http://www.nyclu.org/g_archive020602.html)

The reason why is so that silverstein could provide fake prints to the truth movement and continue the deception that FEMA began.

liltroofer

14-01-2008, 07:13 AM

I know there was a steel reinforced cast concrete core from viewing a 1990 2 hour documentary titled, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers". Images and other evidence substantiate the fact.

I have always wanted to see this, and David Ray Griffin mentions this in 'Debunking 9/11 Debunking' as well. I believe that it is a good source, and I trust that the concrete core theory is less of a theory and more of a factual design. Especially since it isn't refuted so much as ignored.

killtown cannot even give a logical reason why the perps would fake video rather an use real planes to impact the towers and provide cover for the demolition.

I disagree here. To me, it is illogical to either use fake planes or to use TV fakery. Both are strange. Neither are explained.

I am fully capable of demonstrating with explanation exactly why it is totally illogical that planes be faked in video rather than using real one. I have done so in this thread very well.

Hmm. I guess I have to go back and read the 80 pages ... damn. hahaha

I sincerely believe, and can provide circumstantial evidence to show that one of the purposes of MKultra was to influence a fairly large number of people to have deeply held beliefs that would be used to confuse and derail meaningful unification in the 9-11 truth movement

This is interesting to me because I can see how psychological analyses can be interpreted as some sort of wacky mind control thing. And obviously, the fear of being mind controlled is a pretty good argument. On the other hand, that's an argument for NPT too.

Here I am trying to get the logic of the notion from killtown a few pages back.

I will go back and slog through the 80 pages of this post like a good truth seeker. :) however, on behalf of Killtown's theory, I might propose this for TVfakery ...

1) "Because they can" - to test 'their' full ability to create a world hegemony, they decided to give their control system a good 'college try' and so far succeeded. If we let them succeed at their deception, they will proceed immediately with their NWO crap. Best to try to show that there were no planes and therefore reveal their true level of control - which is already immense.

2) "Because it's guaranteed" - with a misunderstanding of physics already in place by blaming the collapse on airplanes "acting alone" :p they knew they were already in over their head as far as accounting for mistakes. They couldn't be sure that their airplanes wouldn't cause durable but fallable bombs to go off early, that the airplanes would hit in the right place to make the airplane holes or anything else. By leaving it to missiles and explosives, TV could "fix" everything else - as it *almost* entirely has.

3) "To disguise the real vehicles" - since a non-human-guided object can be calculated to fly more perfectly and acurately than a passenger jet ("Remember The Pentagon!" hehe) a flying object filled with napalm explosives was used to represent the plane for about 20 seconds, and then edited over to represent a 767. A plane hitting WTC1 isn't even necessary since nobody would look up until the first "boom" - starting the whole demolition process.

Here's why I think both of you are on to something ... and not necessarily in opposition.

christophera

14-01-2008, 07:46 AM

I have always wanted to see this, and David Ray Griffin mentions this in 'Debunking 9/11 Debunking' as well. I believe that it is a good source, and I trust that the concrete core theory is less of a theory and more of a factual design. Especially since it isn't refuted so much as ignored.

I disagree here. To me, it is illogical to either use fake planes or to use TV fakery. Both are strange. Neither are explained.

Hmm. I guess I have to go back and read the 80 pages ... damn. hahaha

This is interesting to me because I can see how psychological analyses can be interpreted as some sort of wacky mind control thing. And obviously, the fear of being mind controlled is a pretty good argument. On the other hand, that's an argument for NPT too.

Seriously, mind control is not at all wacky. It is utterly factual and it begins with children and hypnosis then memory control. I have massive facts to support this, but that seems too weird for people and prefer not to. This link is fully substantial enough.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg

I will go back and slog through the 80 pages of this post like a good truth seeker. :) however, on behalf of Killtown's theory, I might propose this for TVfakery ...

1) "Because they can" - to test 'their' full ability to create a world hegemony, they decided to give their control system a good 'college try' and so far succeeded. If we let them succeed at their deception, they will proceed immediately with their NWO crap. Best to try to show that there were no planes and therefore reveal their true level of control - which is already immense.

2) "Because it's guaranteed" - with a misunderstanding of physics already in place by blaming the collapse on airplanes "acting alone" :p they knew they were already in over their head as far as accounting for mistakes. They couldn't be sure that their airplanes wouldn't cause durable but fallable bombs to go off early, that the airplanes would hit in the right place to make the airplane holes or anything else. By leaving it to missiles and explosives, TV could "fix" everything else - as it *almost* entirely has.

3) "To disguise the real vehicles" - since a non-human-guided object can be calculated to fly more perfectly and acurately than a passenger jet ("Remember The Pentagon!" hehe) a flying object filled with napalm explosives was used to represent the plane for about 20 seconds, and then edited over to represent a 767. A plane hitting WTC1 isn't even necessary since nobody would look up until the first "boom" - starting the whole demolition process.

Here's why I think both of you are on to something ... and not necessarily in opposition.

If the planes were faked, why did the wrong tower fall first?

1.) Doesn't have a physical tie to the event and proceeds on strategical supposition.

2.)Plane impacts do not cause "bombs" to detonate. What we see here is FAR TOO uniform for bombs.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg

If missiles were used, why did the wrong tower fall first?

3.) If missiles were used, why did the wrong tower fall first? This is a huge error and cannot be intentional.

The thread is only 9 pages.

liltroofer

14-01-2008, 07:54 AM

If the planes were faked, why did the wrong tower fall first?

That is a good question, actually. You'd think they'd get the order correct. However, if the towers were demolished deliberately, it doesn't matter which is hit first. It's still an error - faked planes or no faked planes. It perhaps has more to do with when they pushed the button, instead.

Plane impacts do not cause "bombs" to detonate. What we see here is FAR TOO uniform for bombs.

Wait, too uniform for bombs? Please explain. I missed this one, sorry.

The thread is only 9 pages.

No, dude ... reading this stuff is seriously like almost a page per post ... so tiring. :D

christophera

14-01-2008, 05:27 PM

That is a good question, actually. You'd think they'd get the order correct. However, if the towers were demolished deliberately, it doesn't matter which is hit first. It's still an error - faked planes or no faked planes. It perhaps has more to do with when they pushed the button, instead.

Absolutely. Human nature dictates that when a ruse of this magnitude is conducted that no chances are taken to arouse unneeded suspicion. If remotes of any kind were used, then very tight control would exist and the timing of explosive detonations and plane impacts would be perfect.

The only logical way to explain the backwards demo sequence is that the towers were on timers and the hijacker of the first plane hit the wrong tower. And, .... that radical turn of flight 175 in order to line up with the south tower now makes sense. He showed up to see his target on fire.

The fact that 61% of the north face of WTC shear wall was destroyed but the top fell south says that the planes did not hit the faces they were supposed to. The very top of WTC 2 fell west. In this image a piece of the concrete core can be seen as that brownish cube inside the falling perimeter box columns.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc2coreonto3.jpg

Wait, too uniform for bombs? Please explain. I missed this one, sorry.

A bomb will just blow a hole in a structure. In the below image we have the entire structure uniformly involved with making a perfectly symetrical debris wave.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg

THe lack of distribution in this quarry blast shows each blast hole.

http://ksjtracker.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/explosionquarry.jpg

Explosives were perfectly placed and distributed. Moreso than ANY blast we can find an image of. This is one reason it is so hard for people to identify explosives at work. The built to demolish, engineered explosive container is a perfect exploitation of hitlers "big lie" concept.

No, dude ... reading this stuff is seriously like almost a page per post ... so tiring. :D

Well let's sue media for not making it a mini series so you can just watch the reruns.

liltroofer

14-01-2008, 08:01 PM

If remotes of any kind were used, then very tight control would exist and the timing of explosive detonations and plane impacts would be perfect.

That's poorly argued. I'm not saying I'm right but look at it this way, man; you're saying "they wouldn't want to make mistakes. therefore, no mistakes would happen."

I'm saying: "they wouldn't want to make mistakes. therefore, they reduced the variables." My argument is better.

The only logical way to explain the backwards demo sequence is that the towers were on timers and the hijacker of the first plane hit the wrong tower.

I'll ignore that you keep using absolutes like "i'm not theorizing. i'm right." and "the only logical explanation is mine" because I feel the same way dude. we're not going to convince each other by saying "I'm right. You're wrong."

Is really the only logical explanation timers? Really? I don't know. Seems to me it could be timers, a slip-up, or maybe even someone started pointing out facts about the south tower, and so they had to get rid of it first. Based on the rest of the way they cover things up like WTC7, that makes way more sense to me than total detonation.

Obviously if I believe NPT, I don't believe there were hijackers, so I don't really speculate on their non-existent motivations. However, to fully explore this theory, could you go into more depth about this? You may be right.

In this image a piece of the concrete core can be seen as that brownish cube inside the falling perimeter box columns.

I don't 'refute concrete' core or 'built to demolish.' I think that fits with A Grand Unified TOE that unites NPT with demolition. Why are they opposed?

killtown

15-01-2008, 12:25 AM

christophera

15-01-2008, 03:23 AM

That's poorly argued. I'm not saying I'm right but look at it this way, man; you're saying "they wouldn't want to make mistakes.

We are going to learn some things about cognitive distortions. The analysis of when they are justifed, when they are not and how they serve logic requires testing. The test I've found is that there is a goal to all of this discussion. IN this case understanding what did, and what did not happen. The intent of your cognitive distortions is to say I'm not logically evaluating the motives, but you are not providing a counter motive.

In other words, if they did not do it for one reason, they did it for another. Your premise of bashing mine with producing yours make your approach pure distortion. This from a list of cognitive distortions used by cognitive therapists.

You imply that I'm mind reading. Covertly directing the blame by implying I'm doing that I shouldn't be doing, or cannot do. Logic is what I'm doing. If they did not do it for this reason, what reason did they have and they did have one? I base that statement and the reasoning I do on reality.

5. Mind reading: One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.

therefore, no mistakes would happen."

Above a false conclusion that created "all or nothing thinking".

1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories.

I'm saying: "they wouldn't want to make mistakes.

Above you say something I've already implied and I went on to say that with remotes, the mistakes made would not have been made. You redundantly overemphasize a generality.

2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.

therefore, they reduced the variables." My argument is better.

Above you imply somebody simplified something and so therefore it should be easy to understand, but you're not providing anything logical to process. It creates an overall presentation of a distortion that has the following feeling to the reader.

4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.
2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.

I'll ignore that you keep using absolutes like "i'm not theorizing. i'm right."

If I'm not right, just explain why. Stop saying that my assertion is a distortion when it is logically supported and there is good reason to be rightfully saying what I'm saying because it explains "The wrong tower falling first." Provide alternative.

1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories.
2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.
12. Entitlement: Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.

and "the only logical explanation is mine" because I feel the same way dude. we're not going to convince each other by saying "I'm right. You're wrong."

Correct, you will have to provide a REASON you are right, and you have not.

I'll ignore that you keep using absolutes like "i'm not theorizing. i'm right."

Absolutes are fine, distortions suck. If you think I'm not right, reasonably say why, say it absolutely, ...... PLEASE.

and "the only logical explanation is mine" because I feel the same way dude. we're not going to convince each other by saying "I'm right. You're wrong.

Correct, I'm unconvinced because you've not said anything but "I'm wrong and you are right", or objecting to my doing so.

Is really the only logical explanation timers? Really? I don't know. Seems to me it could be timers, a slip-up,

Finally some substance.

A slip up with remotes do not add up. If remote aircraft, then well trained and redundant nearby control. The planes were accurately flown into the towers they hit up to the last fraction of a second. Remote detonators has the operator compensating for backwards impact sequence. Any remote logically makes a logical impact demo sequence. If remotes were nivolved, somebody chose to have a backwards sequence.

Now you have to explain the logic of WHY they chose backwards.

or maybe even someone started pointing out facts about the south tower, and so they had to get rid of it first.

I've heard people suggest this before but I notice you've not provided WHICH facts might cause such a decision. Don't feel bad, no one else has either.

Based on the rest of the way they cover things up like WTC7, that makes way more sense to me than total detonation.

The only cover up with 7 is that it was a demo, which silverstein leaked, now it's out via testimony from 2 emergency responders and the public doesn't seem to care and the 9-11 organizations can't figure out how to use the information. Duh, BF'n surprise.

Obviously if I believe NPT, I don't believe there were hijackers, so I don't really speculate on their non-existent motivations. However, to fully explore this theory, could you go into more depth about this? You may be right.

I speculate there was competing mind control over the hijacker of flight 11 and a paganistic faction usurped control at the last moment by utilizing ancient spiritual structures that are base in directional symbols. He intentionally disobeyed orders to satisfy a personal impulse. The north face of the north tower has a primary directional symbolism. You would have to understand ancient spiritual symbolism to know that.
This speculation is supported by the tilting of the tops of the towers in directions opposite to the way they should have fallen compared to the damage from impact and the radical CCW turn flight 175 made.
The north tower was to be hit at the approximate elevation it was on the SOUTH side. The south tower was to be hit on the west side at the approximate height it was hit, based on the directions the tops of the towers fell.

I don't 'refute concrete' core or 'built to demolish.' I think that fits with A Grand Unified TOE that unites NPT with demolition. Why are they opposed?

"Built to demolish" makes sense and "no planes" does not. Things in speculation that do no make sense about a given controversy detract from the quest for truth or impair the spreading of the truth of the controversy if found.

christophera

15-01-2008, 03:39 AM

Poor christophera. Maybe some should give him some glasses and tell him to read my ENTIRE article where I clearly show the logic of Why They Didn't Use Planes To Hit The WTC (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15057).

Originally Posted by christophera
I just visited your blog and you were supposed to say why "Here is why they didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC:" in your blog but instead you told us something obvious, that people needed to see planes to believe the official story. You didn't tell us WHY the perps "didn't use real planes to crash into the WTC" and instead decided to fake the planes on video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by christophera
Like I said, you think you've said "why" but, ....... you have not. You could do so in a few sentences right here if it was possible to logically explain why the perps chose to fake planes rather than use real ones, but it is not logically possible so you will not.

I've recommended you go see a hypnotist to find out why you believe that there were no planes. That, ........ is not a personal attack, that, ..... is logical strategy under conditions.

If you had been mind controlled to believe there were no planes you would be utterly unable to come up with a comprehensive reason for the perps to fake planes. You have not and you cannot. If you could you would, or someone who has read your page would and they have not.

helloperator

15-01-2008, 04:09 AM

christophera

15-01-2008, 07:10 AM

Well one reason they may have opted to use no planes is this....(and I am not a subscriber to the npt, btw):

By using no planes, they could have ensured a more controlled area of explosion damage in the area of the 'impact' and so when it came time to take the buildings down, they could have some degree of certainty that the remaining charges/ explosives would be operational. If they did crash planes into the buildings, then when it came time to initiate the collapse, they would have been at the mercy of the relative randomness of the damage inflicted by the planes...unsure which of their charges were functional...

It's not much of a reason...but there it is

I suppose that is some reasoning. But would it still be valid with the fact of a concrete core? Indeed, one which had an explosive gridwork at the center of it, engineered as a perfect explosive container.

In which case, damage to a few floors, when all 110 floors are explosive circuits comprised of 12 separate panels, and a hole or 2 in the concrete shear wall, yet another explosive circuit, means very little to either the integrity of the explosive circuits and their function or the overall strength of the structure.

The built to demolish scenario uses the built in security phone lines for initiation distribution which ran inside the core vertically and stubbed out onto the floors, so a plane crashing into a floor or 2 and the resulting fire has little effect on the whole. With digital counters that are set to counting autonomously, they are independently synchronized before any explosions start. As long as that stubbed out conduit and its connection into the in slab conduit encircling the core are intact, all but the floors severely effected by fire are ready to go.

The uniformity of the event, from top to bottom, is astounding. Far to perfect to achieve with mere planted charges.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg

ryans53

18-01-2008, 05:46 AM

I apologize for my ignorance if this has already been answered (I've been out of the 9/11 scene for awhile), but I was wondering if anyone ever located the documentary on which the "concrete core" hypothesis depends?

Also, as far as TV Fakery is concerned, there seems to be a perfectly good rationale for using cartoon planes over real planes: cartoon planes are under the control of an animator in a studio who is subject to the laws of human nature; real planes are under the control of Newtonian physics which are subject to the laws of the natural world. One of these laws is bendable, controllable and imminently exploitable. The other is resilient, universal and utterly neutral in its behavior. If one wanted to pull off 9/11 with a sensitivity to as many contingencies as possible, which approach would yield the most maneuverability over the event?

I'd pick the animator over Newton any day. And I think Hollywood would back me up on this.

killtown

19-01-2008, 03:40 AM

If you had been mind controlled to believe there were no planes you would be utterly unable to come up with a comprehensive reason for the perps to fake planes. You have not and you cannot. If you could you would, or someone who has read your page would and they have not.
No I have, you are just too lazy (or dumb) to read my whole article. But keep thinking and saying I'm a shill if it makes you feel better.

killtown

19-01-2008, 03:42 AM

weston white

19-01-2008, 07:53 AM

dave52

19-01-2008, 10:17 AM

weston white

19-01-2008, 08:21 PM

Now that’s just childish, if you don’t believe in that actual planes where used in coordination with a CD then keep your opinions to yourself... j/k

Kevlar, Dragon Skin, Fire Retardant cloth all (or a combination of) are very strong and durable.

You avoid that fact that the floors that were hit would not even need to have any explosives planted within them or they could have used wireless detonators just the same.

I am merely doing some brain storming of plausible methods, if you can’t handle it run back to NPT and enjoy your DEW! laff.

christophera

20-01-2008, 08:26 PM

That's one of the reasons I give in my logic of using no-planes. It's not a good idea to crash a loaded plane in structures you're about to demo in a controlled fashion. What if you used a real plane to crash into the North Tower and it accidentally set off some bombs that made it fall in the WRONG direction need to showering debris on the WTC 7? The perps wouldn't be able to pull the 7 because they just lost their official reasoning to why the 7 collapsed.

Plane impacts and fires do not set off bombs. High explosives can only be initiated by the pressures created from high explosives, about 20,000 foot per second.

christophera

20-01-2008, 08:39 PM

They could have just as well used explosives in coordination with a plane crash. so what if the planes damaged a few floors, the explosives would have still be set to go on the remaining floors, besides explosives on every single floor is not a requirement in a CD. As well they could have used remote detonators in the floors set to receive plane damage. The wiring could have been routed on the far side of the designated impact areas, even covered with something like Kevlar padding, or other specialized material.

As well they could have used cutter charges set to go off by a proximity sensor as soon as the plane was X amount of feet from the impact zone, thus opening the whole for the entire aircraft to enter without breaking pieces off into the street below (or a device designed to trigger from the decibel pitch of jet engines, a beacon transmitter onboard, the sonic/subsonic vibrations of the aircraft, etc.).

Plane travels X amount of feet per millisecond, charges take Y number of milliseconds to detonate and cut through Z inches of steel, so trigger devices XYZ number of feet upon detection of said target.

Comprehensive thinking.

Very close to the scenario I've developed around the "built to demolish" concept.

Each floor was a series of 12 explosive circuits.

The core was an explosive circuit that could be vertically interupted and delayed by access to the C4 coated rebar provided every 40 feet with ports cast into the concrete walls accessable on the inside.

The 1990 documentary, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers" had details on the "special anti corrosion, vibration resistant coating" on the high tensile steel rebar of the tubular cast concrete core as well as the "inspection ports" every 40 feet..

Marvin bush had access to the phone schematics for the towers which would enable use of the security phone line to every floor via conduit in the core.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1215336

If an audio tone starts 1200 separate digital detonation counters counting with their individual delay sequence, the autonomy of the detonators makes it so plane impacts and fires do not matter. When so many autonomous explosive circuits are going to go off, if 10 or 15 are interrupted, no biggie. Most importantly is that the detonations themselves don't interrupt distribution circuits. The distribution and delay sequence has already been started by the audio signal detected by the digital counters.

Since the floors detonated first, the detonation systems for the core are protected by the concrete core walls. Since the lower portion of WTC 2 concrete core is left standing for a second or two, I speculate that a different, non radio sensitive distribution system was used in the lower portions of the concrete core that was less predictable and not as fast as electrical blasting caps. The lower core probably had another distribution system which uses a flammable gas inside plastic tubes to initiate blasting caps similar to the old flame, fuse fire caps. Which is why the WTC concrete core stood for a few seconds before detonating to the ground. The reason for this was that the needed delays were effected by accessing the vertical rebar to install a delay that kept the entire core from going off at once. That work took time and was done months before 9-11 and the caps had to sit there the entire time.

All that need be done is to strip the C4 coating off about 4 inches of the rebar and place a steel shield to isolate the lower section from the blast of the upper then put a det cord jumper delay to continue the delayed blast sequence downward.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif

weston white

20-01-2008, 09:43 PM

Now that is comprehensive thinking. heh!

killtown

22-01-2008, 08:16 PM

As well they could have used cutter charges set to go off by a proximity sensor as soon as the plane was X amount of feet from the impact zone, thus opening the whole for the entire aircraft to enter without breaking pieces off into the street below (or a device designed to trigger from the decibel pitch of jet engines, a beacon transmitter onboard, the sonic/subsonic vibrations of the aircraft, etc.).
1) So you admit that an un-retrofitted 767 could not have done what we observed in all the 2nd hit videos where the 767 "melts" into the WTC?

2) Can you show me the evidence in any of the videos that bombs opened the whole in the WTC's facade before the plane "flew through it"?

killtown

22-01-2008, 08:22 PM

Plane impacts and fires do not set off bombs. High explosives can only be initiated by the pressures created from high explosives, about 20,000 foot per second.
Source?

killtown

22-01-2008, 08:52 PM

I have a challenge for the finger-pointers, who in the 9/11 truth movement is a shill and be sure to post your rock-solid evidence that they are.

christophera

23-01-2008, 07:01 PM

Plane impacts and fires do not set off bombs. High explosives can only be initiated by the pressures created from high explosives, about 20,000 foot per second.

Source?

It is common knowledge in the engineering world.

http://www.chem.shef.ac.uk/chm131-2001/chb01ajb/types_of_explosives.html

killtown

24-01-2008, 08:53 AM

Can you paste the relevant text?

PS - Still waiting for you to prove who is a shill in the 9/11 movement.

ryans53

25-01-2008, 05:03 AM

christophera

25-01-2008, 09:44 AM

I'll have to throw my support to Killtown here. I did not see any relevant information for fires/impacts being incapable of igniting explosives on the link.

Also, the statement "high explosives can only be initiated by the pressures created from high explosives" is circular. "High explosives" cannot simultaneously be both the cause and the effect. I'm not saying that I know for sure whether fires/plane impacts can ignite explosives, but if they can't, it would be nice to know why.

Secondary explosives such as TNT and gunpowder are less sensitive and require some form of detonator or a severe shock to set them off.

C4 is composed of RDX and a plasticiser that turns the crystal-like RDX into a putty-like substance that can be played with, shaped and even thrown into direct flame without detonating. C4 is usually detonated with a more sensitive explosive such as RDX.

Sure, fire and impact can detonate high explosives. We know the story about vietnam soldiers using C4 to heat food in the field, and then how stomping on it to put it out was a good way to lose a leg. It is totally inconsistent.

What we see here is an incredibly uniform series of explosions.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg

Mere bombs will NEVER get that effect. It is ASTOUNDING in its symetry. it is an engineered explosive container.

weston white

25-01-2008, 11:23 AM

1) So you admit that an un-retrofitted 767 could not have done what we observed in all the 2nd hit videos where the 767 "melts" into the WTC?

2) Can you show me the evidence in any of the videos that bombs opened the whole in the WTC's facade before the plane "flew through it"?

I would not go so far as to use the term "retrofit", but it is possible that the added additional equipment to the planes and/or stashed items aboard, modified flight software, controls, etc.

There was that closeup of the Nadeau Brothers, there appears to be an explosion, although and evenstill cutter charges would not neccessarly display an explosion or a converted hole, they could merely serve to cut through most of the steel thus making them so weak that anything that places pressure against them would force them to give and break off.

weston white

25-01-2008, 11:25 AM

I have a challenge for the finger-pointers, who in the 9/11 truth movement is a shill and be sure to post your rock-solid evidence that they are.

Really, who cares, they know who they are, that is something they will have to face once the truth breaks and they are exposed. Until then play your game as you have been obligated to, we who know the truth, know the truth. Your attempts shall never deter us, ever.

christophera

26-01-2008, 11:51 PM

Really, who cares, they know who they are, that is something they will have to face once the truth breaks and they are exposed. Until then play your game as you have been obligated to, we who know the truth, know the truth. Your attempts shall never deter us, ever.

Weston, you are right on with this. It is good to know who the false players are, but their simple lack of explanation for events, within the information they are pushing is actually adequate to identify them.
Personally I feel only the leadership of disinformation is worth identifying. The followers are too numerous.

cruise4

27-01-2008, 04:27 AM

Steel reinforced cast concrete core

I take it building the twin towers via this method is entirely feasible?

Do you know for a certainty that there were concrete cores entirely independantly from your analysis? What is this 'certainty' based on?

If you examined and blew up those plans from a scan why could those anomolies not be introduced via that process? Especially if it is a scan of a scan or something. Is fake the only explanation?

What were the contractors up to in the weeks prior to the demolition and why were dogs only pulled just before?

To clarify... you believe there were hijackers?

I'd like to hear your views on the alledged Mobile Phone calls.

And we should certainly try to track down that film.

What is the use WT7 should be put to that the 9/11 movement hasn't managed?

Has anyone in the forums you have been on, posted anything that has caused you to pause for thought?

Good thread though. I see no reason to rule this out yet. But I confess I haven't yet been through the many in depth links you've all posted.

madthumbs

27-01-2008, 03:16 PM

What Does The Infiltration Of The Truth Movement Look Like?

Sometimes it looks like this:
http://opposingdigits.com/images/alexblowhornjones.jpg (http://opposingdigits.com/alex/)

How Does It Work?

De-activism - How to Demobilize a Movement (http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7093)

How can one identify and discern the infiltrators or their supporters?

Not all are conscious of their role. They can be controlled by media, culture, arrogance, selfishness, and religion. Most if not all infiltrators will appeal to the selfish (like white nationalists) and or be pro religion or ignorant/ defendant of it. I have seen cases where infiltrators appear anti-religion, but intentionally come across as idiots.

Normally leadership is promoted by the confidence of those who follow, so the average American observer thinks, "Man, those 9-11 truthers are really idiots if they think;"

a nuclear weapon was used to bring down the towers

a space beam took out the twin towers

that the plane attacks were actually video fakery

and promote these people to the level of prominence where alternative media is abuzz with the nonsense.

After watching a video of the antennae on the tower disintegrating on a non space beam/ nuke site without it being pointed out, I wouldn't discount those possibilities. Thinking and knowing are two different things. I believe it's ok to think "demolitions/nukes/thermate/space beam", but when you go around professing things and even using "100% proof positive", then you are disinfo. You're closing the doors to other possibilities. No one has a definitive explanation for what happened, otherwise we'd all be on the same page.

Thermate and nukes can be explained away as nonsense. Most of us don't know or can't know enough about space beam or energy weapons and or demolitions to judge. Looking at the evidence that leads people to these theories can help people to see that something was amiss.

So the goal of the infiltration is to get the rest of America who is basically okay with the official explanation to think that the small group of truthers are gullible idiots.

If only it stopped there. The gullible idiots are also lead to a hamster wheel of getting nowhere. (See above link on how to demobilize).

How do the agents of deception know each other and do they know they are presenting deceptive information?

Even they can have trouble discerning. They need to look at motive. What do they have to gain? (IE: Steven Jones making a career out of an unprovable thermate theory).

Some of the infiltration will urge us to go to myspace. They don't say what to do there, so people just hook up with other like-minded people and waste time. If you're going to go to such a place, consider that every activity there has the potential to help the enemy ( Rupert Murdoch (http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4745) ), or hurt them.

Eric Hufschmid was one to steer people toward myspace. His sister also happened to marry into the Murdoch family. At the same time he (they) were telling us not to buy Zionist rags (which they knew their audience wasn't doing anyway).

christophera

27-01-2008, 07:45 PM

Steel reinforced cast concrete core

I take it building the twin towers via this method is entirely feasible?

The steel reinforced cast concrete core is needed to prevent destructive flex and torsion, or the same oscillation that took out the Tacoma narrows bridge.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3932185696812733207&q=tacoma+narrows+bridge&total=103&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

The only limit C4 coating on the rebar creates is thickness and the concretes grip on the rebar. By engineering the wall thickness vs the bar diameter vs the needed explosive force, the relative thickness can be set so the concrete grip is adequate.

Do you know for a certainty that there were concrete cores entirely independently from your analysis? What is this 'certainty' based on?

The 1990 documentary "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers spent about 1 of its 2 hours focusing on the difficulty of building the largest concrete core in history. The video I've produced has images that show the concrete.

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition I (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6240504594075547308&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition II (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5255701680091399090&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1)

If the steel core columns existed, they would ABSOLUTELY be visible in 9-11 images, they are not, EVER.

An engineer certified in 12 state has published a PDF stating there was a concrete core.

August Domel, Ph.d SE. PE. (http://www.ncsea.com/downloads/wtcseerp.pdf)

A newsweek article from September 13, 2001 has information for Leslie Robertson identifying a concrete core.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040807085840/http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3069641/

If you examined and blew up those plans from a scan why could those anomalies not be introduced via that process? Especially if it is a scan of a scan or something. Is fake the only explanation?

The characters seen are not of the alphabet.

http://algoxy.com/psych/planimages/A-A-159.revtab.jpg

The existence of a 1 pixel line and space of the length shown, straight as shown, from the scan of a pencil drawing are not actually possible. In addition the scans are illegible which enables misrepresentation of the dimensions. Something needed to explain the obvious size of the core in images.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc_lobby_scaled.jpg

What were the contractors up to in the weeks prior to the demolition and why were dogs only pulled just before?

There was a power down of WTC 2 upper 48 floors on the weekend before 9-11,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053

that is obviously an opportunity to set electrical detonators which should not be set far in advance because of their sensitivity to cell phone transmission. AS far as the dogs being removed, I know nothing of that. Do you have any links?

I know that as soon as the lease went into effect work on the lower elevator systems began. Newscasts talked about people waiting in lines who worked on lower floors because they had to take elevators over their floor and then come back down. I have no link for that.

To clarify... you believe there were hijackers?

Yes, the only rational explanation for the fact that the wrong tower fell first includes hijackers disobeying their orders. Flight 11 hit the wrong tower.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1207667

I'd like to hear your views on the alledged Mobile Phone calls.

They sound impossible from any phone except a satellite phone. I have associates that are RF engineers and that is what they say. Aside from that, I feel the cell phone issue gains way too much discussion time and is being used to derail more important information lines. Also passport data as well as flight instruction info is being used for that.

And we should certainly try to track down that film.

It has been found and intercepted 3 times.

6/20/07 interview (documentary search update 17:50 minutes)
http://www.mediafire.com/?dogzudruzem

only a focus by the truth movement upon the issue will find it. Currently the infiltrators of the movement are working against the concrete core issue. Trying to make it go away.

http://algoxy.com/psych/whatis9-11_loose-change.html

What is the use WT7 should be put to that the 9/11 movement hasn't managed?

That WTC7 was a demolition is now proven. The 9-11 truth movement should unify and DEMAND that media focus on the issue of 7's demise being presented to the public as a collapse then proven to be a demo with a countdown.

Has anyone in the forums you have been on, posted anything that has caused you to pause for thought?

Not in question of the built to demolish theory, and certainly not the concrete core, THAT IS A FACT. People have introduced interesting information that supports one or the other.

Good thread though. I see no reason to rule this out yet. But I confess I haven't yet been through the many in depth links you've all posted.

Good reasoning. If you knew explosives well you would see the uniformity of this explosive event as absolute proof of the built to demolish concept.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg

This info of this page explains how the above image represents engineered explosive concrete shear walls or planes.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11corexplosions.html#anchor1410743

christophera

27-01-2008, 08:10 PM

Sometimes it looks like this:
http://opposingdigits.com/images/alexblowhornjones.jpg (http://opposingdigits.com/alex/)

De-activism - How to Demobilize a Movement (http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7093)

Not all are conscious of their role. They can be controlled by media, culture, arrogance, selfishness, and religion. Most if not all infiltrators will appeal to the selfish (like white nationalists) and or be pro religion or ignorant/ defendant of it. I have seen cases where infiltrators appear anti-religion, but intentionally come across as idiots.

After watching a video of the antennae on the tower disintegrating on a non space beam/ nuke site without it being pointed out, I wouldn't discount those possibilities. Thinking and knowing are two different things. I believe it's ok to think "demolitions/nukes/thermate/space beam", but when you go around professing things and even using "100% proof positive", then you are disinfo. You're closing the doors to other possibilities. No one has a definitive explanation for what happened, otherwise we'd all be on the same page.

Thermate and nukes can be explained away as nonsense. Most of us don't know or can't know enough about space beam or energy weapons and or demolitions to judge. Looking at the evidence that leads people to these theories can help people to see that something was amiss.

If only it stopped there. The gullible idiots are also lead to a hamster wheel of getting nowhere. (See above link on how to demobilize).

Even they can have trouble discerning. They need to look at motive. What do they have to gain? (IE: Steven Jones making a career out of an unprovable thermate theory).

Some of the infiltration will urge us to go to myspace. They don't say what to do there, so people just hook up with other like-minded people and waste time. If you're going to go to such a place, consider that every activity there has the potential to help the enemy ( Rupert Murdoch (http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4745) ), or hurt them.

Eric Hufschmid was one to steer people toward myspace. His sister also happened to marry into the Murdoch family. At the same time he (they) were telling us not to buy Zionist rags (which they knew their audience wasn't doing anyway).

Excellent post, thanks!

cruise4

27-01-2008, 08:47 PM

They sound impossible from any phone except a satellite phone. I have associates that are RF engineers and that is what they say. Aside from that, I feel the cell phone issue gains way too much discussion time and is being used to derail more important information lines. Also passport data as well as flight instruction info is being used for that.

Actually I meant from the psychological point of view, which I didn't make clear.

It just seems the mistake is so obvious it must have an important role. If the idea was to instill hi-jackers it suggests there weren't any. See what I'm getting at?

OK Dogs...

I had a quick look through the PrisonPlanet archives and here's a post which I'll include in full:

The clear, absolute and incontrovertible evidence that the WTC towers were deliberately destroyed by controlled demolition by means of a carefully timed and detonated series of "secondary explosions" has been publicly available for quite some time. At 14:42 in this film we see once again and most notably, can clearly hear, the famous Channel 2/Discovery Channel "28 RDX/Thermate bomb-cannon salute" that by 7 seconds precedes the completely different sounding loud expelled debris wind swoop and then the "collapse" klang and crash of the first of the uppermost structural steel components of the WTC's outer steel facade to the pavement below. Afterwards we simply hear the cacophony of the rest of the debris

In this video alone we can clearly hear a distinctive series of closely timed explosive repercussions corresponding to the top-down detonations of perhaps as many as 30 times (each major column) as many bombs per every second floor, where only the very last few, lowest floor detonations are more jumbled and compound-sounding, due to more horizontal wavefront propagation phase-cancellations between and among the last half dozen subsonic blast shock waves.

This is exactly as the firefighters described the demolition as "boom, boom boom, all the way down".

The sound that "collapsing" steel and building materials makes never sounds like a deep low frequency explosive "boom" since practically nothing ever just falls perfectly flat and parallel to the impact surface, such a sound is always a "klang-crash" as the lowest (foremost descending) corner or edge first hits, then the metal reverberates, then the remainder of the item crashes down. Try it with an old frying pan on a sidewalk!

This video clip must be heard with a full range loudspeaker system for it to become obvious to the listener. It was used in Alex Jones Terrorstorm but (sadly) without the soundtrack, and better copies than the Google preview of "First Cut" at 14:42 are available below (though the DVD version of the film is probably better)

http://911exposed.org/WTC%20AV/wtc2_collapse_pops.wmv

or at

http://www.webdisplays.com/bush_securacom_wtc.wmv

While one might dismiss this audio/video if it were considered totally in isolation as possibly inaccurate (doctored, as you put it) when one:

* heeds the eyewitness testimony of the NYC firefighters who were on the scene

* the visual evidence of completely and gracefully controlled demolition of all 3 WTC towers

* the fact that Securacom (since renamed Stratesec), who's chairman of the board Wirt D. Walker III, a cousin of Marvin and George W. Bush, and Marvin Bush, George W. Bush's brother, and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud al Sabah were major shareholders on the board of directors, provided "electronic security" for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records before and up until Sept 12. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp.(KuwAm), also linked for years to the Bush family.

* Securacom/Stratesec also has Saudi investors. Walker also serves as a managing director of KuwAm, which maintains offices within the Watergate complex along with Riggs Bank, on whose board Bush's uncle, Jonathan Bush, sits. Saudi Princess Haifa al Faisal, the wife of Saudi Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar, used a Riggs account to funnel money to Omar al Bayoumi and Osama Basnan, two Saudi students in California associated with two of the Saudi's 911 so-called "hijackers".

* in the weeks preceding 9/11 Securacom/Stratesec initiated peculiar power downs in WTC towers over the weekends, supposedly to do "internet wiring' to the towers, where the service elevators were also strangely out of service. How workmen can do low voltage wiring to the innards of a building without lights and without power tools is curious enough, but becomes even more curious when one considers that "internet wiring" in 2001 would have been obsolete since post 1990, commercial standards had long been raised to pure plastic optical fiber for such "upgrades" to commercial networks!.

* after the weekend shutdowns during which the power/air conditioning was powered down (to make it safer from dry static electricity for workmen to handle explosives?) bomb sniffing dogs were suddenly and inexplicably removed from the complexes by Securacom/Stratesec.

* in the week prior to 9/11 tenants complained of a large amount of loud noises, construction sounds(drilling) and volumes of excess dust (from drilling) on unoccupied floors and settling or being carried into public areas by ventilation systems.

* virtually all surviving witnesses described numerous secondary explosions, and some heroes (the 911 keymaster) also witnessed explosions on the lower levels that took place even before the aircraft crashes

* propaganda video from FOX "man on the street" reporters close by at ground zero curiously had their audio recording soundtrack grossly overmodulated and deliberately distorted to disguise the true soundtrack of the "collapse" of the South Tower (the only one they stayed around for) - this is and was totally unprofessional and the only case in existence of such technical failure in news gathering by their crews, surely no mere "accidental" mistake!

* The noted evidence of Dr Steven Jones of the Thermate residues and the 3000 degree pools of molten metal that burned for months in the demolition rubble at Ground Zero, taken together with film evidence of rivulets of molten steel dripping from the smoldering pre-collapsed structures that could not be produced from any aircraft fuel fire, let alone at points so distant from the points of impact long after the fireball in which 90% of the fuel was expended outside the structure in the direction of the flight's impacts.

* photographic evidence of diagonal cut meter-wide steel columns still standing in the sub level wreckage at Ground Zero

* and most telling of all:
0 no anti-aircraft turrets in the new, taller Neilson designed (same architects? lol) Freedom Tower WTC that will replace the "grossly defective" office towers supposedly "knocked down" by a supposed "aircraft collision".

Just play the video and listen carefully on good speakers, it alone is final confirmatory proof beyond any shadow of any doubt. There is clearly no need to go on.

cruise4

27-01-2008, 08:56 PM

Notes about 9/11 conspiracies

http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/911.html

Download Securacom/Stratesec's SEC filings from here.

Unforunately that download link is no longer working but was:
http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/stratesec.zip

A search for
Bomb sniffing dogs Securacom Stratesec
Brings up loads of potential links.

christophera

28-01-2008, 08:58 AM

cruise4

28-01-2008, 04:55 PM

christophera

28-01-2008, 07:53 PM

No links or any further info. I am one of those who after two months of looking at nothing else decided, I don't know exactly how you did it... but you did it. It will come out in the end.

Nor do I rule out this (dogs) is a rumour, that then spread everywhere, giving the impression its a factual account. Although I think it could be true. With a bit of luck someone on this forum may know more. Certainly worth tracking down any memos communiques from Securacom/Stratesec though if someone can be arsed.

I'm going to post a few queries about that film you mentioned. It will be interesting if;
a) it turns up
b) the info is censored

I am of the current opinion that the Hi-Jacker story is very suspect. I don't rule out what you say though. I also have an open mind on whether the whole thing was designed to be exposed. But I don't know why... but working on it. :D

I have a very dim memory of a news story on the use of explosive sniffing dogs at the WTC following the 1993 bombing. The story stated that most of the dogs brought in at first were giving signal almost constantly that there were explosives present!! Dogs had to be specially trained to work in the towers.

PBS and a major library both were investigated informally and had records that showed the existence of the 2 hour documentary, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers".

Here is that radio interview again.

6/20/07 interview (documentary search update 17:50 minutes)
http://www.mediafire.com/?dogzudruzem

My feeling is that there are hundreds of VHS copies made from the cable broadcast but they are in the possession of people who have no idea of the FEMA deception or what it means. If the truth movement were to make the "core issue" a focus and work to get a general inquiry out, copies will be found.

Such is the reason the infiltrators of the truth movememt work so hard against the concrete core information.

The hijacker hitting the wrong tower first is the only logical scenario I've been able to assemble to explain why the first tower hit, hit hardest, burnt worst, fell last.

Putting the demolition on timers gives the perpetrators complete anonymity if the crew that set detonators is taken out of country immediately.

Such a scenario also make the actual aircraft strike upon both tower mandatory. Given the high possibility of a failure to strike both with the first 2 planes, a backup plane was hijacked as well, just in case the second strike did not occur properly, flight 93 flying around in circles in a holding pattern, waiting.

cruise4

28-01-2008, 11:28 PM

Heightened Security Alert Had Just Been Lifted

By Curtis L. Taylor and Sean Gardiner
September 12, 2001

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-nyaler122362178sep12,0,4224319.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-print

The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday.

Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday, bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed.

"Today was the first day there was not the extra security," Coard said. "We were protecting below. We had the ground covered. We didn't figure they would do it with planes. There is no way anyone could have stopped that."

Security guard Hermina Jones said officials had recently taken steps to secure the towers against aerial attacks by installing bulletproof windows and fireproof doors in the 22nd-floor computer command center.

"When the fire started, the room was sealed," said Jones, who was in the command center when explosions rocked the building. "Flames were shooting off the walls....We started putting wet towels under the doors. The Fire Department unsealed the door and grabbed us by the hand and said, 'Run!' "

Security worker Diane Easton said she was out front writing tickets when notice of "a plane flying too low" placed security personal on alert.

"The plane went right through the building...and debris started falling everywhere, then 15 minutes later the second plane," Easton said.

Nancy Joyner said several police officers were knocked down and then were stampeded in the ensuing frenzy.

"People were flying out of the windows; there was nothing we could do," Joyner said. "People were pulled from the top floors by the wind tunnel created."

cruise4

29-01-2008, 12:07 AM

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=SECURACOM&CIK=&filenum=&State=&SIC=&owner=include&action=getcompany

Phew !!! Good luck with looking through that lot !

Someone pointed this out. Don't know how useful it is:

City in the Sky: The Rise and Fall of the World Trade Center
Amazon.com: City in the Sky: The Rise and Fall of the World Trade Center: James Glanz, Eric Lipton: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TXFJYE0WL.@@AMEPARAM@@51TXFJYE0WL

cruise4

29-01-2008, 05:06 PM

christophera

29-01-2008, 07:19 PM

christophera

29-01-2008, 07:30 PM

I would guess this 'isn't' the film, but can you confirm? And have you checked Torrents for Blueprints? As its your theory....

This documentary may be what you are looking for.

Building the World Trade Center (1 of 3)
http://www.livevideo.com/video/2D5998F4E1C3405C8098A7DAAFE6BA83/building-the-world-trade-cente.aspx

Building the World Trade Center (2 of 3)
http://www.livevideo.com/video/E9823AAF6A2A4209A463CB878D8834DB/building-the-world-trade-cente.aspx

Building the World Trade Center (3 of 3)
http://www.livevideo.com/video/E9823AAF6A2A4209A463CB878D8834DB/building-the-world-trade-cente.aspx

You can also find the Blueprints for the WTC Towers on Torrents.

That is the 18 minute "celebratory film" made by the PA in 1983. The 1990 documentary mentioned it, showed some clips from it and separated itself from it. The 2 hour 1990 documentary was a detailed examination of the constrcution process.

PBS did a "re-edit" of it in 2003 and removed all of the concrete core information.

The plans which can be downloaded are leaked from silversteins offices? (http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/wtc_blueprints_leaked_by_whistleblower.htm) and are faked to appear as drawing which might have been used for construction.

The revision tables were scanned and pasted into the scans of the blue prints. However, someone screwed up in faking the many different initializations of the table. A classic example of using automatic software to treat graphics where the operator just isn't paying enough to the treated product.

From A-A-159.tiff

http://algoxy.com/psych/planimages/A-A-159.revtab.jpg

What is seen IS NOT of the alphabet and is not actually possible from a pencil scan. One pixel wide lines and spaces between lines with pixel perfect straightness unlike surrounding graphics expose the conspiracy to deceive the 9-11 truth movement. From A-A-141.tiff

http://algoxy.com/psych/planimages/gwtc1rev.tab141.anoma.DBL.gif

cruise4

29-01-2008, 08:39 PM

christophera

30-01-2008, 09:07 AM

Good... so far the actual call for this info hasn't been censored anywhere. Bear in mind I'm only 'checking' with you thats this stuff isn't correct. Until I actually find the film I personally cannot be sure.

Where structural steel should be seen, there is none. WTC 2 core.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif

WTC 1, the spire which is a columns OUTSIDE the core off the NW corner of the core.

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/media/56016/site1074.jpg

Looking south along the west wall the spire is outside of something massive. The concrete core shear wall. No steel core columns to the left of the spire, left of the wall, in the core area

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1spirecorewall.jpg

We have all that we need to know. It is just a matter of locating the construction expertise to recognize the elements.

killtown

01-02-2008, 12:28 AM

Weston, you are right on with this. It is good to know who the false players are, but their simple lack of explanation for events, within the information they are pushing is actually adequate to identify them.
Personally I feel only the leadership of disinformation is worth identifying. The followers are too numerous.
After seven years and numerous articles warning about who's disinfo, you guys can't even produce ONE name. Sad.

christophera

01-02-2008, 03:47 AM

After seven years and numerous articles warning about who's disinfo, you guys can't even produce ONE name. Sad.

It ain't sad, its common sense. This movement is not about disfunction or disinformation, and efforts to make it that way SUCK, but they can be named.

Jones
Gage
Wood
Fetzer
Loose Change
Coreley
Eager

And numerous other followers of FEMA misinformation. Happy now? Look how much more functional your efforts are.

I believe EXPLANATION for events that is fully feasible has value.

free fall (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
total pulverization (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg)
superfine, heated particulate (http://www.tiny.cc/oonyg)
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif)
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg)

The FEMA and the steel core column lie cannot be used to explain anything.

Support for the steel core columns is support for the impossible to obscure the possible.

What happened was better than a demolition, it was BUILT TO DEMOLISH.

All five of the above phenomena are feasibly explained and NONE of those who believe in the FEMA lie can feasibly explain even one.

free fall (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
Concrete can be fractured instantly to fall freely by a small amount of properly placed explosives. With C4 coated rebar and C4 poured into the floor corrugations that also acted as cutting charges for the interior box columns, the only full height columns that existed, free fall was assured. The security phone lines were used to distribute an audio tone to digital counters on every floor and every 40 foot of core. Floors were timed with 75 millisecond delays and core sections of 40 foot at 300 milliseconds.

total pulverization (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg)
The above free fall explanation takes care of the building but it needs to be said that when the floors blow and the 300 milliseconds delay of the core blast occurs, the contents of the building are subjected to an outward blast of hard stone aggregates that shred everything and blow it out the windows explaining the 3-5cm bone fragments on roofs 400 feet away.

superfine, heated particulate (http://www.tiny.cc/oonyg)
With an engineered explosive container made from concrete having the explosive coating on the centralized rebar, the pressures from optimum containment are absolutely maximized. Optimized pressures create a maximum shock wave lending to the total pulverization described in the above paragraph but also creating the 10-100 micron sized particles that are super heated to rise and form the distinctive pyroclastic flow. This also causes some of the iron of the rebar to be bonded to molecules of silica and calcium as seen in the dust analysis.

smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif)
The C4 filled corrugations died out into special corner plates that were described in the 1990 documentary as stiffeners for the floor to column joint. There were 6 plates per column, installed in 2 layers all the way around the tower every 3rd floor made from tempered steel, 3/8 thick I think. If these were high pressure gas guides a collapsing plane of high pressure gas would surround the column and slice through it performing as an optimized cutting charge built into the floors (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1233383). Good evidence is shown with a ruptured column (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/explorupturedcolumn.gif). This also provides a very good explanation for the large quantity of iron microspheres as dark columns of iron particulate seen in images are blown out the tops of the severed but still standing interior box columns inside the clouds of debris in the surrounding demolition. (http://mouv4x8.club.fr/11Sept01/A0069b_3_towerexplo1_explosion_below.jpg)

heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg)
Some of the cutting charges failed due to exposure to bad weather during construction. When this happened, large assemblies were intact and the webs of floor "I" beams against the core; still connected to floor beams going out to the perimeter columns, still connected by spandrel plates in the 3 story panels delivered for assembly; were subected to the expanding debris wave of the concrete core detonating which cause a billowing of the web of an "I" beam showing huge pressure applied horizontally (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/pre.cut.salvage.box.column.jpg)

Every phenomena explained in detail. All it depends upon is the infiltration of the US government before 1966 by a faction capable and secrecy adequate to design and construct such building for the purpose of eventual demolition. This cold war self destruct technology was built into sub base and missilie silos. BTW, the US just finished treaty compliance where 4000 post 1965 missile silos had to be demoed, but not pre 1965???? The demo contractors description of the demo jobs souned WAY TOO EASY.

And that uses of verified evidence is valuable. Video happens to have ways to merge stills that no other display method has.

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition I (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6240504594075547308&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition II (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5255701680091399090&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1)

masonfree party

01-02-2008, 09:47 AM

masonfree party

01-02-2008, 10:01 AM

Alfred Webre at the 2007 Vancouver 9/11 Truth Conference -- "International Citizens 9/11 War Crimes Tribunal"
Watch on GoogleVideo: ********************/39j7eq

11:30 AM | Permalink | Comments (2)

Technorati Tags: 9/11, Aggressive War, Alfred Webre, Crimes Against Humanity, Donald H. Rumsfeld, False Flag Operation, Genocide, George W. Bush, Richard B. Cheney, War Crimes, War Crimes Tribunal
9/11 WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL NOTE: The Hutchison Effect
9/11 WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL NOTE: I would like to call the attention of the 9/11 community to the work of Dr. Judy Wood, a former Professor of Mechanical Engineering and of John Hutchison, Canadian scientist and discoverer of the Hutchison effect. I viewed Dr. Wood's work first hand in August 2007, when I was asked to speak at the 9/11 Scholars Conference in Madison, Wisc. by Prof. Jim Fetzer of the University of Wisconsin, founder of 9/11 Scholars on 9/11 & International Law: A 9/11 War Crimes Tribunal:

9/11 War Crimes Tribunal: http://peaceinspace.blogs.com/911/

Dr. Wood's work on the 9/11 event found that the experimental evidence at the World Trade Center (WTC) site was consistent with the the footprint of a high-energy electromagnetic or laser weapons which had transformed 80% of the mass of the WTC towers into nanoparticles within seconds.

Of note to the 9/11 community is scientist John Hutchison's public statement on Jan. 14 and 18, 2008 "that Col. John Alexander and others from the U.S. military visited him in 1983 and filmed his experiments with a team from Los Alamos National Laboratories (LANL). (http://www.weourselves.org/mp3/wpfw_011808_judy-andrew2.mp3 ) Canadian MP Chuck Cook and Dr Lorn A Kuehne of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) contacted him in 1986 and told him his work was "a matter of National Security." (http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/JJ8.html) Hutchison says he's been told that defense contractor, S.A.I.C., has his technology and has been developing it. (http://drjudywood.com/media/071212_JohnHutchison-TruthH.mp3 )" SEE PRESS RELEASE BELOW.

It remains to future evidentiary examination whether the work of Col. John Alexander in his reported 1983 filming and questioning of John Hutchinson's experiments on behalf of the Los Alamos National Laboratories (LANL) - a known situs of advanced weapons development - or in any other of his work in this area contributed to the energy weapons that may have been used on the World Trade Center towers on 9/11. It also remains to be established whether Col. John Alexander may have been knowingly involved in any capacity - including advanced weapons consultation - in the events of 9/11.

As per my presentation at the 9/11 Scholar's Conference and the Vancouver 9/11 Conference, such work by Col. John Alexander and other John and Jane Does, if knowingly involved in the commission of the events of 9/11 would constitute a war crime, including crimes against humanity and genocide under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Code. The events of 9/11 were used as a pretext for the illegal invasion of Afghanistan and the occupation of its uranium and hydrocarbon reserves, and the low level nuclear bombing of its population through depleted uranium weapons, an act which has been ruled as genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes by the Tokyo Tribunal for War Crimes in Afghanistan.V

Video: 9/11 War Crimes Tribunal

********************/39j7eq

For those who may not be aware of Col John Alexander, he is a key member of the Aviary (black budget ET/UFO programs) and the 2008 X-Conference schedule confirms his background with Los Alamos National Laboratories and directed energy weapons:

"What is known is that [Col. John Alexander] has been a leading advocate for the development of non-lethal weapons since he created renewed interest in the field starting in 1989. An original thinker, he has developed other unique concepts for conflict that must remain undisclosed at this time.

"He entered the US Army as a private in 1956 and rose through the ranks to sergeant first class, attended OCS, and was a colonel of Infantry in 1988 when he retired. During his varied career, he held many key positions in special operations, intelligence, and research and development. From 1966 through early 1969 he commanded Special Forces "A" Teams in Vietnam and Thailand. His last military assignment was as Director, Advanced Systems Concepts Office, US Army Laboratory Command. After retiring from the Army, Dr. Alexander joined Los Alamos National Laboratory where he was instrumental in developing the concept of Non-Lethal Defense. As a program manager, he conducted non-lethal warfare briefings at the highest levels of government including the White House Staff, National Security Council, Members of Congress, Director of Central Intelligence, and senior Defense officials. He also met with heads of industry, and presented at academic institutions, including Columbia, Harvard and MIT.

"Dr. Alexander organized and chaired the first five major conferences on non-lethal warfare and served as a US delegate to four NATO studies on the topic. As a member of the Council on Foreign Relations non-lethal warfare study, he was instrumental in influencing the report that is credited with causing the Department of Defense to create a formal Non-Lethal Weapons Policy in July 1996. For several years, he has been a distinguished guest lecturer at the US Air Force Air University and participated in key war games when non-lethal weapons were first being considered."

http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/X-Conference2008/X-Conference2008.htm

From Andrew Johnson (UK):

PRESS RELEASE ON WORLD TRADE CENTER-HUTCHISON EFFECT PARALLEL
http://www.prlog.org/10048184-scientists-see-wtc-hutchison-effect-parallel.html
Scientists See WTC - Hutchison Effect Parallel

14th and 18th January 2008, Washington DC, USA - In two appearances on a Washington DC Pacifica Radio Station, WPFW, on a show hosted by Author and Political Commentator Ambrose I. Lane, Sr., Dr. Judy Wood, a former Professor of Mechanical Engineering, and John Hutchison, experimental scientist, discussed how photographic and video evidence suggest that the World Trade Centre (WTC) towers were destroyed using Directed Energy Weapons (DEW). Many of the observed effects resemble those seen in John Hutchison's experiments.

In early January 2008, Wood posted a new study on her website (http://drjudywood.com/articles/JJ), which relates effects seen in photographs taken before, during and after the destruction of the WTC complex, to effects seen in Hutchison's ongoing experiments. Wood and Hutchison co-authored the study.

John Hutchison is a Canadian inventor and experimental scientist who has been working with "field effects" for almost 30 years. The Hutchison Effect is a collection of phenomena discovered accidentally by John Hutchison in 1979 during attempts to reproduce the work of Nikola Tesla. Hutchison uses radio frequency and electrostatic sources. The Hutchison Effect occurs in a volume of space where the beams intersect and interfere. The results are levitation of heavy objects, fusion of dissimilar materials such as metal and wood, anomalous melting (without heating) of metals without burning adjacent material, spontaneous fracturing of metals (which separate by sliding in a sideways fashion), and both temporary and permanent changes in the crystalline structure and physical properties of metal samples.

Hutchison has reproduced his experiments many times and the results are recorded on video and have been included in a number of TV documentaries that focus on unusual scientific experiments. Hutchison's metal samples have been repeatedly tested by scientists, including a group at the Max Planck Institute in Germany, confirming Hutchison Effects.

The article by Wood and Hutchison (http://drjudywood.com/articles/JJ) documents effects and events seen in the vicinity of the World Trade Centre and compares these with observed characteristics of the Hutchison Effect.

The observed effects include:

"Weird Fires" - The fires seen near the badly damaged cars do not seem to ignite nearby office paper. Some photos show firefighters walking very close to or even through the fires. A video by John Hutchison shows similar looking "fires" on a model metal boat.

Bent Beams and "Jellification" - Samples that Hutchison produced show very unusual effects on metal. Sometimes the metal "jellifies," turning soft and losing form, leading to severe bending or fracturing of the sample. Sometimes samples erupt from the centre and sometimes they turn to dust, similar to what happened to the WTC on 9/11.

Ongoing reactions - Hutchison's samples often show an ongoing reaction, even after the energy field is removed. This "non-self-quenching" reaction seems to occur at the nuclear level. This also appears to be happening at Ground Zero (GZ). Dr. Wood's study suggests that the WTC site is still being "decontaminated," with trucks moving dirt into and out of the site, while "hosing down operations" continue, which Dr. Wood and Andrew Johnson photographed and recorded on video in January 2008.

Transmutation - Sometimes materials subjected to the Hutchison Effect seem to change at a molecular or even atomic level. This could be the explanation for the apparent rapid rusting at GZ, where steel rusts like iron. Also, some photographs show unusual effects on the aluminium cladding used on the twin towers that look similar to effects produced on Hutchison's aluminum samples.

Wood, Hutchison, and Johnson appeared on two Ambrose Lane shows, "We Ourselves," and discussed the similarities between the WTC event and the experimental evidence produced by the Hutchison Effect. "I have been collecting data over the last year and a half or so and I have found these distinct and unusual characteristics, which I have given names such as 'fuming' and 'toasted' cars – I have even noticed flipped cars in some pictures," said Wood. "In some cases, the flipped cars are sitting next to trees that are fully covered with leaves."

"If the flipping of the cars was caused by big explosions or 'wind' from the towers coming down," asked Johnson, "how did the leaves stay on the trees?" Material scientist George Hathaway observes that the Hutchison Effect causes either lift or disruption of the material itself. Lift explains the flipped cars. (http://drjudywood.com/pdf/HutchisonEffectReport_txt.pdf )

In some of his experiments, Hutchison observed "spontaneous combustion" where "fires appeared out of nowhere." He also confirmed that Col. John Alexander and others from the U.S. military visited him in 1983 and filmed his experiments with a team from Los Alamos National Laboratories (LANL). (http://www.weourselves.org/mp3/wpfw_011808_judy-andrew2.mp3 ) Canadian MP Chuck Cook and Dr Lorn A Kuehne of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) contacted him in 1986 and told him his work was "a matter of National Security." (http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/JJ8.html) Hutchison says he's been told that defense contractor, S.A.I.C., has his technology and has been developing it. (http://drjudywood.com/media/071212_JohnHutchison-TruthH.mp3 )

Asked about ongoing dirt removal and hosing down at the WTC complex, Hutchison commented, "I think there is an ongoing reaction or 'infection.'" Wood noted that the damage done to the Bankers Trust (Deutsche Bank) building was repaired, but then they decided to take the building down. This evidence indicates there is a continuing reaction there. Rusting beams in the Bankers Trust building and in the temporary PATH train station also suggest ongoing reactions too.

At the end of the first show, a caller said, "This is a revelation beyond revelations…this trumps everything…If this story ever gets out, it will change the course of the United States' and the whole world's history."

Another caller said during the second show, "I am thinking that these revelations we are hearing this morning should have the people so excited and so outraged that they should be flooding the lines to their congressmen and news people to get this message out as the number one story of the year."

For more information please see:

http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/

http://www.hutchisoneffect.ca/

WPFW Related:

http://www.weourselves.org/

http://www.wpfw.org/

christophera

01-02-2008, 08:46 PM

explain why several cars were turned upside down around ground zero...if it had been a conventional collapse then these cars would have been crushed flat by all the debris but instead they were levitated by a force like the hutchison effect i.e directed energy weaponry....cars do not turn upside down by them selves

It is concievable that the the blast which fractured the core foundation caused a shock wave that flipped them over. Also a blast wave of concrete debris from the thick lower core wall could roll a vehicle over. A lot of sand and gravel would surround it tho. A picture would be nice for this evaluation. I do remember seeing a few.

This I doubt bears any resemblence to the effects of a directed energy weapon.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg

But does show a blast wave that could overturn a car.

secondsun

05-12-2008, 06:06 AM

I can prove the concrete core.

and i can prove the Theory of Evolution!

http://www.juliantrubin.com/imagesb/evolution.gif

...see!

christophera

05-12-2008, 06:59 AM

and i can prove the Theory of Evolution!

http://www.juliantrubin.com/imagesb/evolution.gif

...see!

Uh huh. But can you take advantage of it?

secondsun

06-12-2008, 06:56 AM

Uh huh. But can you take advantage of it?

...if i could, why would i want to?... people have been lied to and disinformed and deliberately confused enough already!

...it all depends on which side of the fence you are really on?

christophera

06-12-2008, 05:57 PM

...if i could, why would i want to?... people have been lied to and disinformed and deliberately confused enough already!

...it all depends on which side of the fence you are really on?

If you could take advantage of evolution you would use reason to help people to understand, and they would. Understanding dissolves fear if the fear is unreasonable. Without fear controlling people they can trust one another and unify. If you are evolved then you would want your fellow humans to understand, then unify to protect their lives and futures.

If you are on the side of the fence that seeks to use the knowledge of an evolved species to protect life and see its continued evolution, then using what you know is natural and no fear of causing confusion can exist.

white horse

31-12-2008, 10:19 PM

christophera

01-01-2009, 01:09 AM

Are you watching closely?
You people think yer awake to the game... but you are playing right into their hands on this one... stop being a bigot... space beams and no-planes are unlikely... BUT NOT impossible... so I don't find it hard to believe that someone might believe these theories
...

Best quote I've read in a long term, well put.

It is well arranged as a statement. Allow me to reaarange it so that it has more function.

You people think yer awake to the game... but you are playing right into their hands on this one... stop being so easily distracted by things that will not work... feasible methods are most likely... and, ALREADY possible... so I find it hard to believe that someone might believe what distracts them, but the theories are not useful.

People call my information on the concrete core a "theory". It is not a theory to me. I watched it being built on film shot in WTC 1 in 1969. For 2 hours. If the towers had a steel reinforced cast concrete core and FEMA told NIST there were steel core columns, we need another analyssi of what has been called collapse.

Done deal. Due process has not been completed in 3,000 murders.

That is information and justifiable USE, all in one post

banoyes

01-01-2009, 05:01 PM

If you could take advantage of evolution you would use reason
If you are on the side of the fence that seeks to use the knowledge of an evolved species to protect life and see its continued evolution, then using what you know is natural and no fear of causing confusion can exist.

Pinpointed problem
This fine fellow "believes", probably believes a lot of stuff
There is not a shred of evidence of "evolution" existing.
of course this "Theory" was "discovered" by a Freemason
and prospered in the fake schools ,teaching BS

Trained...like a monkey in a circus

christophera

02-01-2009, 10:46 AM

Pinpointed problem
This fine fellow "believes", probably believes a lot of stuff
There is not a shred of evidence of "evolution" existing.
of course this "Theory" was "discovered" by a Freemason
and prospered in the fake schools ,teaching BS

Trained...like a monkey in a circus

You assume I mean natural evolution, there is also induced evolution. Either, way, it is good to evolve.

seercirra

02-01-2009, 01:53 PM

Christophera... yer concrete core theory is crazier than the space beams... and I'M NOT KIDDING!

dude, if you dont realise that disinfo is very real then you just havnt looked hard enough.

goto the topix 9/11 boards and youll see what im talking about.

its certainly true that people are employed to play down conspiracy theories, to use disinfo and to distract.

end of story, ive witnessed it many times.

christophera

02-01-2009, 07:51 PM

dude, if you dont realise that disinfo is very real then you just havnt looked hard enough.

goto the topix 9/11 boards and youll see what im talking about.

its certainly true that people are employed to play down conspiracy theories, to use disinfo and to distract.

end of story, ive witnessed it many times.

The concrete core deception is so critical to debunk that an entire thread was created at a site that does nothing but confuse and distract and blend distraction in psyops.

http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854&start=0

There are 441 pages of failed efforts to prove there was no concrete core. Forget the possibility of proving there were steel core column in the core area, that cannot be done by trying to prove there was no concrete. However there is some very good evidence and posts there describing the construction process and the concrete core. All completely consiste with photographic evidence and other factors known to be true.

The site owner calls me up to ask for an interview in '07, creates the thread and features the .mp3 recordings of about 2 hours, then allows a number of disinfo agents to completely trash/troll the thread for a year. Their work of moving valid information from the last page and burying it in the thread was fianally embraced based on dimensioning gleaned from the plans from silverstein that have been shown to be faked to appear as final drawings and ground zero image show to be inaccurate.

http://algoxy.com/psych/whatis9-11Disinfo_fakeplan.html

Meanwhile it appears as though most of the truth movement on the web is either fake or so mislead via the infiltration that people are afrraid to moe either way. Not one signature on this petition targeting message boards and the quasi leaders of the truth movement.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/WorldTradeCenter911

The psyops expolits human priorities of social fears to create disfunctional social groups working with misinformation or distraction while cultivating a fear at using evidence over social pressure.

masonfree party

03-01-2009, 08:27 AM

notice how these 'shill r us ' threads get the most hits and are bumped up...you are so bleedin obvious guys..how much do they pay you chris to patrol this site?

tracker

03-01-2009, 08:35 AM

notice how these 'shill r us ' threads get the most hits and are bumped up...you are so bleedin obvious guys..how much do they pay you chris to patrol this site?

finally !

some one whos noticed the shill tactics !

however please remember this !

i am not saying that Christ is a shill !

i am replying to your remark about what shills do .

i have noticed this too .

when a good thread subject has been created and there is hardly anyone on the forum , suddenly many many threads suddenly pop up with very very short reply responses that actually dont say much and also new threads are created with the contents about one or two lines long thus forcing good threads off the latest posts 1st page .

WELL DONE THERE ! GLAD SOME ONE ELSE HAS SEEN THIS PATTERN !

tracker

03-01-2009, 08:41 AM

finally !

some one whos noticed the shill tactics !

however please remember this !

i am not saying that Christ is a shill !

i am replying to your remark about what shills do .hence my threads on big brother and their aclaimed fool proof tactics .

i have noticed this too .

when a good thread subject has been created and there is hardly anyone on the forum , suddenly many many threads suddenly pop up with very very short reply responses that actually dont say much and also new threads are created with the contents about one or two lines long thus forcing good threads off the latest posts 1st page .

WELL DONE THERE ! GLAD SOME ONE ELSE HAS SEEN THIS PATTERN !

INFACT MY ANALYSIS HAS BEGUN TO POINT TOWARDS 3 OR FOUR MEMBERS WITH MORE THAN ONE USER NAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY USE THESE NAMES TOCREATE A DESGUISE !
its used to hide behind what threads they quickly bump up otherwise the same people bumping up many threads with hardly any long remarks would look well supect so they use two or more user names to create divernsal tactics making it almost appear random .

but im the TRACKER !

tracking agents is what i do !

i have not yet finished my analysis but will defo release it to the mods within a year . yep it will take that long because im documenting names , habbits and predictions and that takes time .

otherwise , until then , we should not point fingers at people .

it is rude .

if we have a problem the rules state we must take it to the mods and or admin etc .

banoyes

03-01-2009, 01:20 PM

finally !

some one whos noticed the shill tactics !

however please remember this !

i am not saying that Christ is a shill !

i am replying to your remark about what shills do .

i have noticed this too .

when a good thread subject has been created and there is hardly anyone on the forum , suddenly many many threads suddenly pop up with very very short reply responses that actually dont say much and also new threads are created with the contents about one or two lines long thus forcing good threads off the latest posts 1st page .

WELL DONE THERE ! GLAD SOME ONE ELSE HAS SEEN THIS PATTERN !
Once the pattern is recognized, it is like a big neon sign.
They revise and modify,but it remains the same.
This site is loaded with pros
Another day at the office for the spook world
For an example of what these guys do look here
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38985

christophera

03-01-2009, 03:01 PM

finally !

some one whos noticed the shill tactics !

however please remember this !

i am not saying that Christ is a shill !

i am replying to your remark about what shills do .

i have noticed this too .

when a good thread subject has been created and there is hardly anyone on the forum , suddenly many many threads suddenly pop up with very very short reply responses that actually dont say much and also new threads are created with the contents about one or two lines long thus forcing good threads off the latest posts 1st page .

WELL DONE THERE ! GLAD SOME ONE ELSE HAS SEEN THIS PATTERN !

I've seen it big time. Every major site I post on.

masonfree party

03-01-2009, 04:07 PM

finally !

some one whos noticed the shill tactics !

however please remember this !

i am not saying that Christ is a shill !

i am replying to your remark about what shills do .

i have noticed this too .

when a good thread subject has been created and there is hardly anyone on the forum , suddenly many many threads suddenly pop up with very very short reply responses that actually dont say much and also new threads are created with the contents about one or two lines long thus forcing good threads off the latest posts 1st page .

WELL DONE THERE ! GLAD SOME ONE ELSE HAS SEEN THIS PATTERN !

glad you know what they are up to too Tracker...also notice on certain friends list there are literally hundreds of friends...i would be very suspicious of these..in fact it gives the game away who are shills...check out some moderators friends list...notice the theme

masonfree party

03-01-2009, 04:54 PM

christophera

03-01-2009, 05:54 PM

anyway why don't we have a thread stating our real identity...i've posted a 911 dr judy wood petition so you can all see my real name [steve collier] of burton on trent..tel:01283 531436
It should be made compulsory for moderators to reveal their true identity...i mean who vets these guys anyway? certainly not david icke...

Yes, statements of true identity would make a big difference I think. Just a few doing it seems to reduce the fear levels of many.

The infiltration of the truth movement has many dynamics. We have the first level of message boards, schills. The level that gives them their basis is quasi leadership elevated artificially to prominance. The quasi leadership occurs with invisible funding or a group that appears out of thin air with vocal support.
Personally I feel that one of the purposes of MKultra (we never did find out what its purprose was) was to create a fairly large group of people to support different aspects utilized by false opposition. A simple conditional instruction post hypnotically given could easily serve to make a believer in just about any thing,
These players for the false opposition. Or, ..... opposition that has the appearance of being sincere or potentially effective when in reality it is not and is designed to be exposed after the genuine exposures are lost seem to be empowered by certain message boards. Or, a message board tolerates them and allows their thread to dominate which moves the genuine information back where people cannot see it.

The standard schill, in the false opposition role, keeps parroting "inside job" while putting down every real piece of information that is made public.

christophera

10-01-2009, 03:48 AM

Accordingly, false oppostion infiltrators are partys that say the oppose what you oppose, but really are working to diffuse any attack on the guilty or evidence that might implicate them further. Like the followers and acolytes of NPT, that only believe in fake video, nothing is real.

The mind controlled version of unconscious infiltrator will realize they cannot reason adequately with their information and stop, or at least slow the spread of what they cannot substanciate that alienates so many Americans that otherwise might associate or discuss 9-11 truth. The agents on the other hand do not care about evidence or their image in the psyops of the NPT disinfo agenda.

christophera

11-01-2009, 09:07 PM

If the planes did not exist and video was faked, why didn't this revelation emerge right away?

I mean how many thousands of people actually witnessed the planes hit WTC 2? How is a hologram going to fool them? How is anything but a large plane going to make them the flying object was anything but a large plane?

Planes of course, had nothing to do with the towers coming down, so how is the issue of "planes or no planes" going to rate major discussion?

How that happens is there are hundreds of people either paid as agents or mind controlled operating on post hypnotic conditional instruction. Given the compulsive inability of some no planers to conduct logical thought in explanation of their theory, post hypnotics, or unconscious information that is fortified with fear structures can explain the mental performance.

The imporatnce of the planes is artificially exagerated in their mind by post hypnotic conditional programming. Basically an obsession is created. Each and every morning their unconscious is programmed to give to the conscious mind a message. The message is one of urgency, "warn people that there has been a deception, there were no planes". So, each day, upon awakening, the "no plane obsession" is reinforced from the unconscious mind with what are "general, conditional" post hypnotic instructions.

Of course one of hte conditions is the production of altered video from actual video using high powered hollywood special effects software and computers. Each fame can be morphed until it is absolutely seamless in everyway. A portion of one frame, early in the plane impact sequence showing the planes nose is woven into a later sequence simulating a bad special effect and what the infiltration wants the "no planers" to use as evidence for "no planes".

Since there is post hypnotic instruction with fear reinforced obsession each morning, the appearance of the fake video of the "nose out" confirms beyond all doubt that there were no planes and that all video is faked. Another unconsciousy reinforced defense of the obsession.

To cap it off, there is unconscious programming that causes the individual to react to criticism of their assertions of "no planes" with fear as if each person opposing their perceptions is a government agent trying to defend the deception of planes.

A very convoluted psychological scenario. To find comfort in teir beliefs they are instructed to conduct exchanges on message boards where they confirm their beliefs by reinforcing each others confidence in their "evidence".

The main reason santa barbara county failed to appear on subpoena in 1998 in a state superior court case was because the arrest and booking records subpoenaed documenting a mass insanity in 1876 would have substantiated the extent that people could be unconsciously programmed for psychology making it so investigations into both causes of 9-11 and reactions to 9-11 could be effectively invetigated. Or that just about any type of belief could be reinforced to a point where extreme behaviors could be created.

http://algoxy.com/law/nojustice2/images/subden.gif

The letter is a deception. The arrest and booking records were in the counties possesion one year earlier. This declaration below, signed before a witness, also signing, establishes that fact. The county council is guilty of interfering with the appearance of a subpoenaed witnes, conspiring to evade accountability to state laws and keep a global secret regarding human mental performance.

http://algoxy.com/law/nojustice2/images/skuse.jpg

christophera

15-01-2009, 02:53 AM

The proof that NPT is disinformation manifests when somebody posts in a thread supportive of NPT. It supports NPT to post in a thread against NPT because it gives credibility to the noton there is something of substance to oppose. There is not.

NPT is an unconscious compulsion. No rational closure is entertained. Accountability is not comprehensible to the NPTist because there is no evidence. The evidence is fake evidence. Evidence shows the opposite of what NPTists try to prove.

Bursting the infiltrators scheme of a disinformation campaign based in video game type fantasy; a chiller, thriller concept that some how that "knowing there were no planes" is going to blow the whole thing wide open, is sensationalism. Cloaking obsesive compulsive "delusions of granduer" in techno speak based in watching too much TV and playing too many video games; is the concept of common sense respect for human nature, and there is a motive for everything that people do; Why did the perpetrators create a backwards impact/fall sequence?

The NPTists cannot even invent a good reason for the perpetrators to do such a thing.

Any activity that distracts from the definition of USEFUL information and ITS USE is disinformation. The perps don't care if you know stuff, as long as you do not use it is most important. Accordingly if they can structure a situation where the space for truth is used up with a compulsive, obsessive useless discussion, it serves quite well as disinformation.

ON EDIT: Except for the pentagon, "No Plane" argument.

christophera

19-01-2009, 03:33 PM

The infiltration of the truth movement has many dynamics. We have the first level of message boards, schills. The level that gives them their basis is quasi leadership elevated artificially to prominance. The quasi leadership occurs with invisible funding or a group that appears out of thin air with vocal support.
Personally I feel that one of the purposes of MKultra (we never did find out what its purprose was) was to create a fairly large group of people to support different aspects utilized by false opposition. A simple conditional instruction post hypnotically given could easily serve to make a believer in just about any thing,
These players for the false opposition. Or, ..... opposition that has the appearance of being sincere or potentially effective when in reality it is not and is designed to be exposed after the genuine exposures are (edit, or buried) lost seem to be empowered by certain message boards. Or, a message board tolerates them and allows their thread to dominate which moves the genuine information back where people cannot see it.

The standard schill, in the false opposition role, keeps parroting "inside job" while putting down every real piece of information that is made public.

Relating the first level of disinfomation to the second level which I did define but did not properly identify; the first level was post hypnotically scripted as children to hold a totally subjective belief structure, making the fact impossible for them to remember 3 decades or so later.

Social isolations of many types, one of the main reasons for so many different forms of electronics that keep us from communicating with each other in "face to face" environments, preempt good information and make misinformation easy to establish fitting the first level into the second level of densely programmed individuals who are supported with funding or fake video (the first level is scripted to subjectively invest in) and an intensive social network that becomes their support group in life so things seem normal for them despite massive incongruities.

christophera

27-01-2009, 06:35 PM

Most of the conspiracy theories aren't proveable and much doesn't make any sense.

You will find that the event itself, IF a realistic appraisal of 2 aspects, TOTAL PULVERIZATION is considered, and destruction to the ground, that the official story is absolutely in adequate.

IF the true design of the structure were known, and it is not, which I've proven over and over by simply showing that the structure FEMA presents is NEVER seen on 9-11, that the official storey moves from inadequate to ludicrious.

Or, the fire explanation will completely fail when people learn that the towers had a steel reinforced, rectangular, tubular concrete core.

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

I think the powers that be wouldn't let us know the truths, that's why there is so many conflicting stories and disinfo to confuse us. And even if parts of it where true, there's little ( nothing in some cases) we can do to change things.

Absolutely, and the truth that is most critical to protecting their lie is the true structural design of the towers. Without that, there would be no conflicting stories because the rtuth movement would have been successful and the opportunity for conflicting theories would not have arisen.

We can't even trust the History Books, bits added and taken away! How do we know so called ancient history wasn't invented and written say less than a hundred years ago?

Absolutely. Another example that people have a very hard time believing is that a 2 hour documentary titled, "The Engineering and Construction" of the Twin Towers" which did document the true structure core of the towers has been disapeared by the powers that be and NO ONE SEEMS to remember.

Actually, people cannot believe that America has been so well divided that the Americans that saw the documentary are of a generation and social group that are completely separate from those that accept and understand the corruption or infiltration at the highest levels of government.

christophera

29-01-2009, 07:32 PM

The major enablement of the infiltration of the truth movement is protection for those who are mislead and deceived.

In a face to face discussion the inability of a mislead and decieved party would be exposed and accountability would be enforced by a majority opinion based in the fact presented. Not only is everybody informed they have also rejected one who spread misinformation. They know them on sight and will refuse to use their information protectin the then, commonly held evidenced and jointly reasoned truth.

With a message board this is not the case, and, if accountability is not strictly enforced based on evidence and reason, the infiltration succeeds by simple continuity of enablement, and no one can tell the difference unless they are noticing the failures of the mislead to produce evidence and reason.

Accordingly, the internet is a trojan horse when message boards allow non accountable communications.

christophera

02-02-2009, 04:26 AM

The selectivity uniformly demonstrated by the believer in the "no plane theory" (NPT) is a very good indicator of a type of infiltration. Or generally speaking, the beliefs in NPT are absolute because all information can be faked. Right there, they stopped even considering evidence in the future as they respond to the ultimate tool for psychological selectivity, total rejection of everything because any of it might be fake.

A propensity and tendency to generalize, one that says any generalization is okay.

Such uniformity is not seen in the opposition to NPT. People that believe in planes at the WTC believe they were there because of a myriad of reasons. Many of them very well respected by millions.

Some Americans who are not 9-11 truthseekers of any kind have so many reasons to believe there were planes, and this is where the troublesome divergence is, that the planes were responsible for bringing the Twins down, and reject everthing having to do with 9-11.

The post 9-11 disinformation campaign successfully created an attitude in one more persons mind. Following that, everytime they hear about 9-11 truth they will put it down with disgust.

Such is the sign of an effective infiltration of the 9-11 truth movement.

stannrodd

04-02-2009, 11:05 PM

The post 9-11 disinformation campaign successfully created an attitude in one more persons mind. Following that, everytime they hear about 9-11 truth they will put it down with disgust.

Such is the sign of an effective infiltration of the 9-11 truth movement.

Looked in the mirror lately !

A prime example of disinformation will be looking back at you.

Still preaching your crap theory Chris ?? .. you are nuts mate.

Stann :eek:

tannah

05-02-2009, 02:22 AM

stannrodd

05-02-2009, 02:36 AM

You're not exactly saying anything here are you?

Oh yes I am.

Christopher has a way with peddling his baseless theory to naive readers, .. it is all disinformation and misinformation and has been shown to be a load of snake turds.

Here he is pretending to be the good guy, when in fact he is the infiltrator.

Perhaps you'd like to read this 440+ page missive which in the end got him banned ..

http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854

Stann

christophera

05-02-2009, 02:55 AM

Looked in the mirror lately !

A prime example of disinformation will be looking back at you.

Still preaching your crap theory Chris ?? .. you are nuts mate.

Stann :eek:

You're not exactly saying anything here are you?

You are correct. He is all ad hominum. He's been following me around wasting space with text and crap for perhaps over a year now. Most recently here,

http://www.renewamerica. us /bb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8703&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=75

Take the spaces from round "us" and see what's happened there.

stan started this in 2004 at Let's Roll, where he was made a mod??? So, needless to say I've wasted no time there since that happened.

stan ended up on another board where I busted a poster photoshopping an image and the admin there didn't even comment when I proved it 2 different ways. It seems likely they are all working together That board is certainly a cointelpro site and had an agenda before I was invited for an audio interview. 465 pages later the agenda called for a "coup de gra" but it backfired for anyone who reads, uses evidence and reason.

The admin placed themselves as "judge' with a "verdict" but based their decision on the main tool of the poster that did the photoshopping, which was the plans from silverstein which I have shown in at least 3 ways to be a misrepresentation and altered.

I exposed the cointelpro act conducted there which is basically used to smear and marginalize some real truth seekers by lumping them with the cointelpro shills that are expendable. An example is fetzer who was on the "rat" list there but then salvaged and removed because he and judy wood were seeing success in misleading people about DEW.

Education into what is happening with the infiltration of the truth movement, for sure.

Ultimately, the concrete core has been a test subject for me to expose cointelpro because I know for certain the core was concrete. Accordingly, when someone works too hard against it I know 2 things.

1. They are not into seeking truth because that requires using evidence and reason and they won't.

2. If they try too hard to diss the concrete and have accomplices and they become the "ridicule gang", they are a part of the psyops trying to make people respond to social fears.

ashur

05-02-2009, 09:53 AM

christophera I find it very amusing how easily the fake ones stand out these days hahahaha.

I saw your post and thought good job mate. You're on the ball. Then I saw people resisting you and they stood out like a saw thumb as fake.

ashur

05-02-2009, 10:01 AM

Christophera, your talking a load of crap!:eek:

STEVEN E JONES IS THE AGENT:(

Thermite/Thermate - Did not bring down the Twin Towers.

You have been taken in by the disinfo.

Mate you stick out like a sore thumb as fantasy. This is failed infiltration man.

same with stannrodd

tannah

05-02-2009, 08:01 PM

Oh yes I am.

Christopher has a way with peddling his baseless theory to naive readers, .. it is all disinformation and misinformation and has been shown to be a load of snake turds.

Here he is pretending to be the good guy, when in fact he is the infiltrator.

Perhaps you'd like to read this 440+ page missive which in the end got him banned ..

http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854

Stann

Stann I'd already gone and viewed the 440 page thread when Christophera posted the link. I've also kept up with visiting the place as a reader only. The owner is peddling his own BS now, and it makes sense that he'd want the conrete core theory out of the way.

As for you mate, honestly, I haven't read anything of substance from you so far, here or over at the other link. I don't vote for similar reasons.

christophera

05-02-2009, 09:50 PM

Perhaps you'd like to read this 440+ page missive which in the end got him banned ..

http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854

Stann

Stann I'd already gone and viewed the 440 page thread when Christophera posted the link. I've also kept up with visiting the place as a reader only. The owner is peddling his own BS now, and it makes sense that he'd want the conrete core theory out of the way.

As for you mate, honestly, I haven't read anything of substance from you so far, here or over at the other link. I don't vote for similar reasons.

I care "so much" about being banned, that I learned of it for the first time from stan in his post. Hahaahaaaha.

Just saw that the admin there is attacking A. Jones. Considering that over the years I've tried to get Jones to communicate with me and he will not, and that he teamed with Dylan Avery and got an interview with Barry Jennings, deceased (Rest in peace Mr. Jennings. We honor you) who was Emergency coordinator for the New York Housing Authority and witness to events prior to WTC 7 going down; and the interview was not released and Jones gets access somehow to expose things like the bohemian grove, it is very likely that Jones is a Schill and the psyops is trying to make him more credible by showing he is worthy of attack. Or at least confuse those iissues.

Now that is reverse psychology, but, the "9-11 rat" expose by that site iindicates that such could easily be reality.

stannrodd

05-02-2009, 10:32 PM

Mate you stick out like a sore thumb as fantasy. This is failed infiltration man.

same with stannrodd

I deal in facts. Christoper deals in lies.

Truth versus fiction. It's very easy to apply labels. Do the research as I and many others have done, and you will benefit from the facts.

Christoper targets the naive simpletons like you and your crowd of nonsense purveyors. His reputation is now preceding most of his activities in forums, and his theory is a dead duck in anyone's terms unless they are brain dead.

Have a nice day .. enjoy the video !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYPco_Pr5Sw

Stann

bryan

06-02-2009, 12:31 AM

I deal in facts. Christoper deals in lies.

Truth versus fiction. It's very easy to apply labels. Do the research as I and many others have done, and you will benefit from the facts.

From a quick search of the web, you seem to be only interested in a certain piece of plane debris at the Pentagon and debunking Chris. Have you done any other kind of 9/11 research in the 4 or 5 years since you were a mod at lets roll?

Christoper targets the naive simpletons like you and your crowd of nonsense purveyors.

I'm sure you know that very few people on this forum take Chris seriously. In fact, only the planehugger shills pretend to support his theory because he's happy to be their attack dog.

While I was searching the web I found another of Chris's theories.

the pilot of flight 11 chose to disobey orders and hit the wrong tower which caused flight 175 to arrive with its target aflame making that radical turn it did necessary.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/288971/1/

Occam rolls in his grave (again). :)

tannah

06-02-2009, 01:02 AM

I deal in facts. Christoper deals in lies.

Sure, it's a fact you just posted a stupid video. And it's a fact that you've spent months posting other stupid videos ridiculing this guy. So, I'll be brave and predict you will do this in the future and never really deal with 9/11 in any meaningful way. Dirty job but someone has to do it I guess?

I mean, most people here are influenced by David Icke, and I doubt if charachter assasination is something you will gain credence for.

stannrodd

06-02-2009, 04:57 AM

From a quick search of the web, you seem to be only interested in a certain piece of plane debris at the Pentagon and debunking Chris. Have you done any other kind of 9/11 research in the 4 or 5 years since you were a mod at lets roll?

I'm sure you know that very few people on this forum take Chris seriously. In fact, only the planehugger shills pretend to support his theory because he's happy to be their attack dog.

While I was searching the web I found another of Chris's theories.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/288971/1/

Occam rolls in his grave (again). :)

Chris has many theories .. I have yet to find an answer to the photo of this debris found at the Pentagon yet almost all conclude it is of aircraft origin but most likely not 757 .. for those of you who wish to see the picture here it is ..

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/Mysterypart2.jpg

the photo was posted on congresswoman Berkleys website after her visit to the Pentagon on September 13 2001.

These are simple facts .. I didn't make anything up. The information has been presented to many forums and still the answer is .. we don't know what it is.

Debunking Christophers theory is very important. People need to have faith in facts. Christopher does not produce facts, nor does he present facts.

He presents speculation and conjecture in a format which implies fact. I know that he has impersonated Leslie E Robertson in a guest post. I have the IP address from which it was posted and I have Christophers IP address at the time it was posted. They match.

A simple question I'd like to ask is .. why would an elderly architect subscribe to a conspiracy theory website forum and make an admission that he had lied about the construction of the Twin Towers ???

FFS I am not a dullard. It just does not make any sense.

Where is Christophers famed video documentary in which he claims he gains all this information about how the towers were constructed, and during the process of construction explosives were installed in the concrete by attaching C4 plastic explosives and then embedding them in concrete floor pans ?? ... and in this non existent concrete core.

It doesn't make any sense to show this information to a naive public on PBS TV .. can you imagine how many tenants might just feel a bit uneasy about working in a bomb !! You'd have to be nuts to believe that sort of garbage theory.

To design criteria for debunkers to argue with him .. on his terms .. does not make sense, if he is honest about research. An honest researcher would welcome input from critics in the quest for truth.

I have done quite a lot in terms of sorting rocks from the sand.

Christopher misquotes me on his website in an extract from a post I made at LetsRoll. It is total bullshit .. I should know since I have the original, and I know what I wrote. He could of course remove that quote, but to date he has refused to correct the obvious lie. QED he is prepared to perpetuate his long string of lies ..

He could come clean but I doubt it the guy is a compulsive liar and attention seeker... believe him at your own risk. I think if you are serious about facts and truth, you will dismiss this persons theory (imagination).

Cheers
Stann

christophera

06-02-2009, 07:10 AM

While I was searching the web I found another of Chris's theories.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/288971/1/

Occam rolls in his grave (again). :)

the pilot of flight 11 chose to disobey orders and hit the wrong tower which caused flight 175 to arrive with its target aflame making that radical turn it did necessary.

Correct, and if you add that the towers were set with timers to detonate, creating anonymity for the perps, then the backwards impact/fall sequence is well explained and consistent with all evidence.

Do you have a problem with explanations that are common sense and consistent with all evidence?

If you look at my site,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1410743

you will see that other evidence you have missed is completely consistent. WTC 1 had 61% of its north face shear wall destroyed but the top of the tower fell south. Exactly opposite the way it should have fallen.
WTC 2 was hit on the south face but the top fell east.

With a demo it doesn't matter and the towers are going down the way the demo is set to direct it. But the plane strikes obviously had the planes hitting the wrong faces to be coordinated with the demo. The backwards impact/fall sequence has a good explanation that is substanciated with other evidence showing somebody poorly controlled was flying the planes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Occam's razor, also Ockham's razor,[1] is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar, William of Ockham. The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae ("law of parsimony", "law of economy", or "law of succinctness"): entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, roughly translated as "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity". An alternative version Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate translates "plurality should not be posited without necessity. [2]

When multiple competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

Originally a tenet of the reductionist philosophy of nominalism, it is more often taken today as an heuristic maxim (rule of thumb) that advises economy, parsimony, or simplicity, often or especially in scientific theories. Here the same caveat applies to confounding topicality with mere simplicity. (A superficially simple phenomenon may have a complex mechanism behind it. A simple explanation would be simplistic if it failed to capture all the essential and relevant parts.)

Have you ever read Occam?

stannrodd

06-02-2009, 09:44 AM

If you look at my site,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1410743

You will find a load of snake turds being offered as facts

.. or you can go like the pied piper .. !!

Choose his facts and compare with reality ..

Stann:eek:

dusthead

06-02-2009, 11:27 AM

Getting back to the original premise of this thread -

There is no 'infiltration of the truth movement'.

What you basically have here is a bunch of people who had a theory. In time that theory became a widely believed 'truth' and now everyone and their dog wants a piece of the action. Inevitably, you are going to get a few people with some strange ideas joining the gang.

I could compare this to music - Heavy Metal is a genre that has many different sub genres. At one end you've got Europe and the Scorpions with their soulful pop ballads and at the other you've got Napalm Death and Burzum with their brutal crushing noise.

So it is with the truth movement. Some people will inevitably be extreme in their opinions, just as musicians are extreme in their songs.

What the majority of 'truthers' now have to decide is where to take it from here. You can't have many different truths - there can be only one truth. Hence, some of these theories must be wrong.

In fact, now that people are selling T-shirts and other merchandise, the 'truth movement' itself, is starting to develop into something more sinister.

Pretty soon there will be a lot of people selling the truth movement as a commercial entity, who couldn't care less whether it was an inside job. It is already happening with DVDs, T-shirts, badges, books, car stickers and a host of other stuff.

When there is a McDonalds '9/11 conspiracy happy meal' you will see the problem. If you think that's impossible, consider that Roswell was consigned to the cartoon conspiracy junkyard long ago.

Being a 'truther' is fashionable right now.

Inevitably, there will be 'fashion victims'.

tannah

06-02-2009, 12:44 PM

Debunking Christophers theory is very important.

As important as standing united against the dangerous whores that rule over the "fodder"?

People need to have faith in facts. Christopher does not produce facts, nor does he present facts.

How are you in a position to prove this? Please explain.

He presents speculation and conjecture in a format which implies fact.

A bit like NIST?

I know that he has impersonated Leslie E Robertson in a guest post. I have the IP address from which it was posted and I have Christophers IP address at the time it was posted. They match.

Are you in a position to prove this? I could say I had an erotic email from Princess Diana years ago.

A simple question I'd like to ask is .. why would an elderly architect subscribe to a conspiracy theory website forum and make an admission that he had lied about the construction of the Twin Towers ???

Indeed. And your point is? Why ask this simple question if you have the IP address to prove Chris is a liar?

FFS I am not a dullard. It just does not make any sense.

What doesn't make sense?

Where is Christophers famed video documentary in which he claims he gains all this information about how the towers were constructed, and during the process of construction explosives were installed in the concrete by attaching C4 plastic explosives and then embedding them in concrete floor pans ?? ... and in this non existent concrete core.

Indeed, where is it I wonder. I'd like to know what gives you the assurance that the concrete core is non existent. That isn't to say I understand Chris's theory fully.

It doesn't make any sense to show this information to a naive public on PBS TV .. can you imagine how many tenants might just feel a bit uneasy about working in a bomb !! You'd have to be nuts to believe that sort of garbage theory.

Oh I see. So the documentary was about the explosives being planted into a concrete core, and not just about the towers being built with a concrete core. I get your logic there. Sure, if a tv program was about bombs being planted in these towers then I guess a few people would have already gone to prison, the bombs removed and the construction monitored closely.

To design criteria for debunkers to argue with him .. on his terms .. does not make sense, if he is honest about research. An honest researcher would welcome input from critics in the quest for truth.

Offer some input.

I have done quite a lot in terms of sorting rocks from the sand.

Go on.

He could come clean but I doubt it the guy is a compulsive liar and attention seeker...

Really? Can you provide instances of this compulsion in him?

believe him at your own risk. I think if you are serious about facts and truth, you will dismiss this persons theory (imagination).

Facts and truth eh? Where are they Stann? My own stance is to lay aside all this "my theory" stuff now and work towards forcing an independant investigation. Because the theory that is ruling the world at the moment is seriously illogical, wouldn't you agree Stann?

BTW..good post Dusthead

bryan

06-02-2009, 02:15 PM

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/Mysterypart2.jpg

the photo was posted on congresswoman Berkleys website after her visit to the Pentagon on September 13 2001.

When there are so many different aspects to 9/11, I find it strange that you think its worth spending your time chasing Chris around and trying to identify a piece of scrap metal on the Pentagon lawn.

The most likely explanation is that you, Christopher Brown and Fintan Dunne are working together to waste people's time and divert them away from the important issues.

dusthead

06-02-2009, 05:59 PM

christophera

06-02-2009, 07:45 PM

Conspiracies within conspiracies it would seem.

Does anyone else here think paranoia is been taken to new levels when conspiracy theorists accuse each other of being conspirators?

It looks like the beginning of the end for this movement.

Yes, it looks like that, and that is what the conspirators want us to see. Then, .. become discouraged and stop trying to get the truth.

MKultra makes it possible because there are people acting within a conspiracy and they do not know it. Of course there are many passive peons in various conspiracies that don't know it. But, mind controlled agents, victims really, are much more effective because they actually have beliefs installed by the conspirators and the victims have no idea. They think all of the feelings and thoughts are their own and go out and act as if they are.

So there really are conspiracies within conspiracies.

Evidence is the only thing that separates them and makes them distinguishable from one another.

Because something is possible, ....... that fact is not evidence. Evidence of its actual utilization is required to reasonably assert it is evidence to be factored.

For example.
I can assert the Twin Towers were built to demolish. Such is a possibility. I can evidence the assertion with an image of a demolition so perfect that it really cannot be created any other way. Because I can show an image that is verified (http://mouv4x8.club.fr/11Sept01/A0069b_3_towerexplo1_explosion_below.jpg) as representing reality that is annotated with lines that show distinct separations between debris waves adjacent to the planes of the towers faces, or the formation of a valley off of the towers corner, I can evidence that the explosions were related to the exact shape of the tower.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexplodinglines.jpg

Alternatively.
If I were to try to assert that no planes hit the tower and showed a piece of video with a planes nose emerging from the far side of a towers impact face to prove it, that would be unverified because no other video or image or witness testimony can be found to substanciate it.

Accordingly, a person who continues to assert such a thing after being made aware of these facts and is shown more substancial evidence supporting other more intrinsically valid information to the largest aspect of the event, could be considered a mind control victim acting out a role in a conspiracy.

Now, there is the situation where one conspiracy makes another credible. There are also conspiracies that make other conspiracies possible. Perhaps you get the picture. It is not simple and requires a very discerning person with a considerable amount of knowledge to sort them out.

This is why I have this web site.

http://members.tripod.com/truthasaur/

and this web site,

http://truthasaur.com

and this web site,

http://algoxy.com/missingknowledge/

Those site enable people to educate themselves in the actual facts which are verifiable controlling the environment of psychological possibilities that conspiracies may be conducted.

dave52

06-02-2009, 10:30 PM

If I were to try to assert that no planes hit the tower and showed a piece of video with a planes nose emerging from the far side of a towers impact face to prove it, that would be unverified because no other video or image or witness testimony can be found to substanciate it.

Can you show me another image like that one (even though I'm unsure of what you're trying to prove with the lines)...

stannrodd

07-02-2009, 12:12 AM

When there are so many different aspects to 9/11, I find it strange that you think its worth spending your time chasing Chris around and trying to identify a piece of scrap metal on the Pentagon lawn.

The most likely explanation is that you, Christopher Brown and Fintan Dunne are working together to waste people's time and divert them away from the important issues.

You can think what you like. I can assure you that I do not work with Christopher Brown, I work against him. As for Fintan, we are not in regular contact, but I find his methodology interesting and though I don't agree with him on all things, he uses good process.

The "scrap of metal" on the Pentagon lawn actually raises a hell of a lot of questions for those who have theories about missiles and other things .. it's a bit of an unwanted enigma .. because it exists. Theories and conjecture don't really exist until proven.

Some elements of the 9/11 research movement wish it would go away .. and so it is often ignored as being irrelevant.

The facts we know about the Twin Towers construction from the historical record are in stark contradiction to Christophers theory .. so if there is an infiltration it is through the likes of him and idiotic theories which cloud the issues ... they do not clarify them.

This is the reason he is being targeted. He works alone and anyone who challenges his theory is somehow part of a secret world of agents and subversive government operations. In his view I am an agent on the CIA payroll or some other illicit payroll. The guy is a dreamer ..

This person sums him up well. If you are interested ..

http://wildyms.blogspot.com/2008/06/christophera-and-his-phenomena.html

Cheers
Stann

dusthead

07-02-2009, 12:44 AM

The unusual thing in all of this, is that Christophera appears to view alternate opinions as a smokescreen and the exponents of those viewpoints as organised conspirators.

In reality, what is more off-putting and slightly comical for cynics, is reading online infights between conspiracy theorists who suspect there is a conspiracy within the original conspiracy, where certain conspiracy theorists may be conspirators (!).

The intentions may be good, but the posts convey irrational paranoia and make it hard to take the information seriously.

It reminds me of John Carpenter's The Thing, only no-one has a bloodtest figured out yet, so everyone is stuck in an endless circle of supposition and finger-pointing.

It's actually quite funny if you take your thinking hat off for 5 minutes and have a laugh.

Go on... have a laugh! It's too bloody serious round here!

I can assure everyone here I am not working for the CIA and my DNA is 100% human - although parts of it may be made of alcohol from time to time.

tannah

07-02-2009, 12:49 AM

You can think what you like. I can assure you that I do not work with Christopher Brown, I work against him. As for Fintan, we are not in regular contact, but I find his methodology interesting and though I don't agree with him on all things, he uses good process.

The "scrap of metal" on the Pentagon lawn actually raises a hell of a lot of questions for those who have theories about missiles and other things .. it's a bit of an unwanted enigma .. because it exists. Theories and conjecture don't really exist until proven.

Some elements of the 9/11 research movement wish it would go away .. and so it is often ignored as being irrelevant.

The facts we know about the Twin Towers construction from the historical record are in stark contradiction to Christophers theory .. so if there is an infiltration it is through the likes of him and idiotic theories which cloud the issues ... they do not clarify them.

This is the reason he is being targeted. He works alone and anyone who challenges his theory is somehow part of a secret world of agents and subversive government operations. In his view I am an agent on the CIA payroll or some other illicit payroll. The guy is a dreamer ..

This person sums him up well. If you are interested ..

http://wildyms.blogspot.com/2008/06/christophera-and-his-phenomena.html

Cheers
Stann

Here's the last line from that blog:

Which version of events looks better? His or what actually happened?

WELL, WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED DUDE?

All I see is a little blog with someone making Chris famous here! What's more Stann, you give me the creeps. FFS, seriously, in real life we'd all wonder what your real motivation is for stalking someone this way. Stop making Chris more credible than he may otherwise be. I don't need people to think for me or warn me. Every word is taken as is. If you know "what actually happened", do life a favour and persist with educating people on that angle. No one in their right minds can accept someone warning everyone not to listen to Chris Brown.

And this "The facts we know about the Twin Towers construction from the historical record are in stark contradiction to Christophers theory", again WHAT FACTS, and how do they contradict if they are indeed facts? Historical records are the means to corrupt mankind. They are what your blogger mate should be dedicating his time on and warning people about, because they are the records that do REAL damage, not somone with a theory no one seems to be buying anyway.

Honestly people, see the seriousness of what is going down.

stannrodd

07-02-2009, 03:14 AM

Here's the last line from that blog:

WELL, WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED DUDE?

All I see is a little blog with someone making Chris famous here! What's more Stann, you give me the creeps. FFS, seriously, in real life we'd all wonder what your real motivation is for stalking someone this way. Stop making Chris more credible than he may otherwise be. I don't need people to think for me or warn me. Every word is taken as is. If you know "what actually happened", do life a favour and persist with educating people on that angle. No one in their right minds can accept someone warning everyone not to listen to Chris Brown.

And this "The facts we know about the Twin Towers construction from the historical record are in stark contradiction to Christophers theory", again WHAT FACTS, and how do they contradict if they are indeed facts? Historical records are the means to corrupt mankind. They are what your blogger mate should be dedicating his time on and warning people about, because they are the records that do REAL damage, not somone with a theory no one seems to be buying anyway.

Honestly people, see the seriousness of what is going down.

tannah,

You have left yourself open to the obvious comment. Naive about WTC tower construction !!

Chris has provided a scenario based on conjecture and speculation which simply does not add up in the real world.

I am not going to attempt to persuade you one way or another. You can do that for yourself.

Christopher however loves attention and "making him famous" is what he wants.

His problem is that he cannot defend his theory with any real facts. I do not contend that I can disprove what he says, ... his criteria that only images from 9/11 can be used to disprove him, .. shows that he is not willing to look outside of the square in which he has built his theory..

... but I can show that the known facts do not support his theory.

I've done the research and you can google my username all you like to find out what I have done.

Here for example is a picture of the steel core in the lobby of WTC1 ..

I didn't invent it ..

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im958lguq5.jpg

Christopher will now invent a story that the concrete core was poured after this construction took place ?? Does he or will he provide any evidence of that claim ... NO .. he just fabricates anything he likes to suit his story.

I urge all readers to look for themselves and ascertain whether his claims have any validity .. you are certainly not doing so yet !!

Stann

christophera

07-02-2009, 03:37 AM

Can you show me another image like that one (even though I'm unsure of what you're trying to prove with the lines)...

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexplodinglines.jpg

The red line shows a vertical valley formed in the debris because of the 2 precision, exploding planes of the core walls with perpendicular alignments (see above alignments). The debris waves are moving perpendicularly away from each other so the valley forms. The yellow line shows the adjacent ridge to the valley or the far reaches, of the parallel debris wave from the exploding plane.

NOTE: The image is the south side of the south tower. In that towers the core was oriented north and south with its long axis. The debris wave on the right, or east side is longer whereas the one on the south is narrow and deep. Just like the wall they originate from inside the tower.

verified by this other image (http://mouv4x8.club.fr/11Sept01/A0069b_3_towerexplo1_explosion_below.jpg)

The lines indicate a vertical valley formed by the debris waves exploding outwards from the core faces. My site has a section devoted to this phenomena which has gone completely un noted by the movement.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11corexplosions.html#anchor1410743

christophera

07-02-2009, 03:51 AM

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im958lguq5.jpg

Christopher will now invent a story that the concrete core was poured after this construction took place ?? Does he or will he provide any evidence of that claim ... NO .. he just fabricates anything he likes to suit his story.

Stann

stans photo IS NOT of the core and evidences the fact of concrete forms itself. Typically he misrepresents evidence. It is of the lobby before the core is cast. The interior box columns seen on the right supported the outer wood forms which are being built in the photo. NOTE: The wood is on the inside face of the interio box columns.

WTC 1 had the reverse construction sequence. The concrete core was cast inside of self supporting forms which made double work in some ways because concrete exerts huge pressures so large wood forms had to be built and torn down before the exteriro steel could be constructed.

The reason that sequence was used on WTC 1 was because no concrete core of that size had ever been constructed before. Traditionally the elevator guide rail support steel was the most precise in location and plumb orientation and so was used to reference the outer walls and other vertical elements of the skyscraper. Since the concrete core was to be used to support the elevator guide rail steel in the case of WTC 1, the traditional method ruled, ...... to great expense in time and money. For WTC 2 it was reversed and for that reason went up much faster even though its concrete core was a more complex structure having twice as many hallways crossing the core.

stannrodd

07-02-2009, 06:02 AM

He provides no proof of his post above ..

Christopher will now invent a story that the concrete core was poured after this construction took place ?? Does he or will he provide any evidence of that claim ... NO .. he just fabricates anything he likes to suit his story.

He simply "preaches" it as if it was "The Knowledge"

stans photo IS NOT of the core and evidences the fact of concrete forms itself. Typically he misrepresents evidence. It is of the lobby before the core is cast. The interior box columns seen on the right supported the outer wood forms which are being built in the photo. NOTE: The wood is on the inside face of the interio box columns.

WTC 1 had the reverse construction sequence. The concrete core was cast inside of self supporting forms which made double work in some ways because concrete exerts huge pressures so large wood forms had to be built and torn down before the exteriro steel could be constructed.

The reason that sequence was used on WTC 1 was because no concrete core of that size had ever been constructed before. Traditionally the elevator guide rail support steel was the most precise in location and plumb orientation and so was used to reference the outer walls and other vertical elements of the skyscraper. Since the concrete core was to be used to support the elevator guide rail steel in the case of WTC 1, the traditional method ruled, ...... to great expense in time and money. For WTC 2 it was reversed and for that reason went up much faster even though its concrete core was a more complex structure having twice as many hallways crossing the core.

Anyone care to guess where this knowledge of Chris''s fairy tale comes from ??

Perhaps Chris can enlighten us first !!

L8tr chaps

Stann

christophera

07-02-2009, 06:37 AM

He provides no proof of his post above

Stann

My use of reason and common knowledge of construction with the image is proof. To add substance to that, it's shown you cannot reasonably explain what the wood is if not forming for concrete?

You new my answer, but didn't try your lame answer again after the first round with your misrepresentations of these images at BFN and myspace where you ended up looking like a New Zealand supporter of secret murder, ................ again and again.

Sorry, the windows aren't yet on (WTC 2 must be about 4 floors tall) and the wood is running the wrong direction (horizontal) for furring strips to fasten drywall or finish stone paneling and the wood is also not distributed properly for that.

christophera

07-02-2009, 06:55 AM

The unusual thing in all of this, is that Christophera appears to view alternate opinions as a smokescreen and the exponents of those viewpoints as organised conspirators.

Maybe you haven't read my posts with their inherent logic in this thread well enough on this very issue. If organised conspirators use mind controlled victims to create a smokescreen and you have not read and understood the simple strategy I'm executing in the name of truth, justice, human rights and freedom, you might think that way.

Ultimately, the concrete core has been a test subject for me to expose cointelpro because I know for certain the core was concrete. Accordingly, when someone works too hard against it I know 2 things.

1. They are not into seeking truth because that requires using evidence and reason and they won't.

2. If they try too hard to diss the concrete and have accomplices and they become the "ridicule gang", they are a part of the psyops trying to make people respond to social fears.

In reality, what is more off-putting and slightly comical for cynics, is reading online infights between conspiracy theorists who suspect there is a conspiracy within the original conspiracy, where certain conspiracy theorists may be conspirators (!).

If you do not understand oral histories, sun worship and what they meant to the "Old World", you cannot understand how high level conspiracies are mostly conducted. You cannot understand the true nature of the spiritual war between dark and light, knowingness against unknowingness.

http://truthasaur.com

http://algoxy.com/missingknowledge/images/gramma.jpeg
December 22 sunrise, 1992, "The Grandmother Shrine" of the "Keepers of the Western Gate", The"Chumash" informal leaders of Turtle Island. "The Great Shrine of the West." to the Abanaki, among the "Keepers of the Eastern Gate",

stannrodd

07-02-2009, 08:58 AM

My use of reason and common knowledge of construction with the image is proof.

This is exactly the type of "preaching" .. he does.

Reason and common knowledge is PROOF

Of course .. that erotic Diana letter was true too darlink ..

Absolute PROOF !

Now Back to Reality..

Stann

christophera

07-02-2009, 09:11 AM

This is exactly the type of "preaching" .. he does.

Reason and common knowledge is PROOF

Of course common knowldege and reason mean nothing to you, .......as are here to support the secret means mass murder.

And your contempt of wholesome human emotion and spiritual purpose, or sharing it, is noted as well.

Now Back to Reality..

Stann

$

dave52

07-02-2009, 09:12 AM

My site has a section devoted to this phenomena which has gone completely un noted by the movement.

To be honest Chris, I've seen the same photos used as proof of DEW, Thermite and all sorts. So you have some images that back up your theory and the No Planers have plenty to back up theirs. The big difference is that you are alone in the concrete core theory, whereas NPT is a growing focus of research in the community.

That's not to say you're not correct, and to be honest NPT could sit side by side with your concrete core - the theories are compatible (as NPT and TV Fakery deals with impact - yours deals with collapse).

I don't quite understand why you are so obsessed with having a pop at NPT...

tannah

07-02-2009, 12:07 PM

tannah,

You have left yourself open to the obvious comment. Naive about WTC tower construction !!

Chris has provided a scenario based on conjecture and speculation which simply does not add up in the real world.

I am not going to attempt to persuade you one way or another. You can do that for yourself.

Christopher however loves attention and "making him famous" is what he wants.

His problem is that he cannot defend his theory with any real facts. I do not contend that I can disprove what he says, ... his criteria that only images from 9/11 can be used to disprove him, .. shows that he is not willing to look outside of the square in which he has built his theory..

... but I can show that the known facts do not support his theory.

I've done the research and you can google my username all you like to find out what I have done.

Here for example is a picture of the steel core in the lobby of WTC1 ..

I didn't invent it ..

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im958lguq5.jpg

Christopher will now invent a story that the concrete core was poured after this construction took place ?? Does he or will he provide any evidence of that claim ... NO .. he just fabricates anything he likes to suit his story.

I urge all readers to look for themselves and ascertain whether his claims have any validity .. you are certainly not doing so yet !!

Stann

Dude , I do not want to take part in a potential 5000 page thread between your obstinate surety and that of others. It's obvious neither of you can establish what I would call a fact, and instead you try to run each other down personally as if that adds extra weight to your perforated arguments. What I want is an investigation that will lead to the kinda facts that are not out there. Dig those ones out and most everything else will fall into place.

bryan

07-02-2009, 02:13 PM

This person sums him up well. If you are interested ..

http://wildyms.blogspot.com/2008/06/christophera-and-his-phenomena.html

It disturbs me when 'truthers' link to conspiracy debunking sites as if they're credible sources.

Honestly people, see the seriousness of what is going down.

Unfortunately there are a lot of fluffy people here who just want everybody to get along with each other. When I see deception I want to point it out, even if it causes some friction.

You can think what you like. I can assure you that I do not work with Christopher Brown, I work against him. As for Fintan, we are not in regular contact, but I find his methodology interesting and though I don't agree with him on all things, he uses good process.

I used to think Fintan Dunne had good analytical skills too, till I heard him interview Chris twice on his show, apparantly totally convinced the towers could have been wired for demolition at the same time they were built. Later I saw threads where Stilldiggin and Lord Carpainter were trying their best to have a civilised discussion about the planes, but they were insulted and abused by trolls like Stallion4, who is to Fintan Dunne's forum what John White is/was to the David Icke forum. I've just had a look at the Break For News forum for the first time in ages, and I can see that Fintan is so desperate to debunk no-planes he's now trolling his own forum.

My visit to his site confirms that the paranoia here is justified. Stannrodd is a rabid planehugger like Fintan Dunne and Christopher A Brown. They are on the same team.

All I see is a little blog with someone making Chris famous here! What's more Stann, you give me the creeps. FFS, seriously, in real life we'd all wonder what your real motivation is for stalking someone this way. Stop making Chris more credible than he may otherwise be. I don't need people to think for me or warn me. Every word is taken as is. If you know "what actually happened", do life a favour and persist with educating people on that angle. No one in their right minds can accept someone warning everyone not to listen to Chris Brown.

More paranoia on my part, but I wonder if one of their aims is to give the debunkers more ammunition to fire at the truth movement.

His problem is that he cannot defend his theory with any real facts. I do not contend that I can disprove what he says, ... his criteria that only images from 9/11 can be used to disprove him, .. shows that he is not willing to look outside of the square in which he has built his theory..

He simply "preaches" it as if it was "The Knowledge"

Anyone care to guess where this knowledge of Chris''s fairy tale comes from ??

Chris is not the only one who depends on fairy tales to support his theories:

The planes penetrated the flat side of the buildings with ease at full momentum. The WTC towers were very strong things compared to a tubular aluminium (not lead) aircraft, hence they did not pass through in one piece but were shredded by the steel core and perimeter columns and so did not produce such massive damage on exit.

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=515&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=525

Do you have any evidence for this shredding of the planes?

I take it the answer is no, otherwise you wouldn't be resorting to circular arguments like the following:

The simple fact that the planes penetrated the buildings shows that the buildings could not resist that first impact.

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=515&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=540

And you talk about not looking outside of the square?

dusthead

07-02-2009, 02:34 PM

Maybe you haven't read my posts with their inherent logic in this thread well enough on this very issue. If organised conspirators use mind controlled victims to create a smokescreen and you have not read and understood the simple strategy I'm executing in the name of truth, justice, human rights and freedom, you might think that way.

I would like to issue a piece of advice to all truthers out there, and Christophera illustrates my point perfectly -

Assuming 'non-believers' or 'cynics' are such cretins they can be blindly manipulated by a higher power is patronising and judgemental. It doesn't win respect from anyone except those converted to the same belief as yourself and is largely pointless.

Apart from anything else, it is near impossible to prove someone has been 'brainwashed' or 'manipulated' without in-depth analysis.You would certainly need more evidence than a couple of obscure posts on an internet forum.

Whilst it is unquestionable that many people here possess great intellect and knowledge, many lack common sense, humility or social skills when corresponding on the subject of 9/11.

This is how it always ends in 9/11 debates. For a while I was very interested in the concept of 9/11 being an 'inside job', but the more I learn about certain people who post on forums such as this, the less I want to research the subject.

So far, I have been accused of being a 'media puppet', 'brainwashed', 'stupid', 'thick', 'insane' and a hundred other things. It doesn't bother me too much, but there are certainly much more interesting things I could be doing.

As a result I'll have to give up on this thread (yet again).

All I'm saying to certain truthers (not all), is to be aware that some of the 'brainwashed masses' aren't who you think they are. Some of them really are trying to see your side of the story and you don't make it easy for them.

christophera

07-02-2009, 09:45 PM

It's obvious neither of you can establish what I would call a fact,

I can produce the below photos showing what can only be a massive concrete wall falling into the core on 9-11. Anyone with construction experience can confirm this. Also that no steel core columns are seen.

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww168/S_N_A_F_U/core_animation_75.gif

Another view of the same piece of concrete. No steel core columns.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc.1core.fall.jpg

The core of WTC 2, no steel core columns.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif

No one has ever produced an image of steel core columns in the core area on 9-11. They did not exist.
The vertical steel that was in the core was elevator guide rail support steel and not strong enough to stand after the demolition began.

Your statement, fairly, should read like this.

It's obvious neither of you can establish what I would call a fact, but stan has no evidence whatsoever from 9-11 that such steel core columns existed whereas Christophera does produce images from 9-11 which show what appears as concrete, although I am no an expert.

christophera

07-02-2009, 09:51 PM

I would like to issue a piece of advice to all truthers out there, and Christophera illustrates my point perfectly -

Assuming 'non-believers' or 'cynics' are such cretins they can be blindly manipulated by a higher power is patronising and judgemental.

'non-believers' or 'cynics' does not cover mind controlled or intelligence/disinformation agents. Non believers can use evidence and become informed and change their beliefs. Cynics can do the same. Either, if sincere in seeking truth, and if knowledgeable of the specific evidence presented, will change thier positions.

Facts in use are appropriate for judgement. Patronising is incorrect because assuming mind control or employment in service to the infiltration of the US government does not assume the opposition is stupid.

I can establish with authoritive test of psychology that mind control is capable of creating massive delusions such as the NPTists exhibit.

Agents of the infiltration of the US government have no reason to use any fact whatsoever and such behavior is exhibited here.

christophera

07-02-2009, 10:00 PM

Apart from anything else, it is near impossible to prove someone has been 'brainwashed' or 'manipulated' without in-depth analysis.You would certainly need more evidence than a couple of obscure posts on an internet forum.

Knowing what you know, which seems about as much as most people on the mentioned subjects as well as construction and engineering, what you say could be seen as factual.

I however know a greate deal about mind control as it is used historically and have authored web sites that refer to massive substance on the subject.

I also viewed the documentary "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers" and have worked in construction for 30 years. My analysis of 9-11 images of the towers can only be countered by another construction expert providing reasonable and logical alternative explanations of the same images. None have ever steped forward to do that, .......... because it cannot be done and there are lurkers on all forums that have enough experience with construction to identify false information if put forth.

I does not matter that I cannot produce the documentary because it is logical that the perpetrators would remove it from American society if they built the towers to demolish. It is logical that any secret infiltration that could build towers to do that could remove a video from PBS.

You employ a cognitive distortion of minimization by the use of the word "obscure".

4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.

I do not need more evidence and I have given a reason for exactly why.

Your post, surrepticiously seeks to induce people to not use evidence and instead to give up the search for truth.

stannrodd

08-02-2009, 02:36 AM

I also viewed the documentary "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers" and have worked in construction for 30 years. My analysis of 9-11 images of the towers can only be countered by another construction expert providing reasonable and logical alternative explanations of the same images. None have ever steped forward to do that, .......... because it cannot be done and there are lurkers on all forums that have enough experience with construction to identify false information if put forth.

You didn't view a documentary named "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers".

It never existed did it matee. Be honest now !

I doubt if you have done a decent days work in all your life.

Your analysis of 9/11 pictures is quite simply ridiculous conjecture, and can be easily countered, and has been done by literally dozens of forum members on the internet.

The image I posted .. this one

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im958lguq5.jpg

.. shows wooden form work behind the temporary scaffolding, not for the alleged concrete core but for the reinforcing concrete as applied to the core floor beams. These details are available and have been pointed out to you.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im_652_lg.jpg

A different angle which clearly shows what I refer to. The ladder like structure is tubular steel scaffolding on which you can clearly see the planking used by workers to traverse the scaffolding. The horizontal wooden form work is to provide support for the concrete being applied to the core floor beams. There was no vertical concrete reinforcing/cladding of the columns. There was no concrete tubular core as you suggest.

Also here are the marble panels awaiting installation ..

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im_653_lg.jpg

Chris, you can only guess at what stage this tower is at in terms of it's height. The photo is from a series which shows the tower many more than the four floors built as you claim .. yet the concrete core is missing .. did they forget to install it Chris ..

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im662lgxu0.jpg

The fact that you cannot agree with the obvious is a sure sign that you do not wish to engage in discussion or that your point of view be scrutinised.

This implies that you are simply preaching and are not researching.

Why would you do that Chris ?? :confused: It's because you are a jerk and an infiltrator !!

Stann

christophera

08-02-2009, 03:12 AM

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im_652_lg.jpg

.. shows wooden form work behind the temporary scaffolding, not for the alleged concrete core but for the reinforcing concrete as applied to the core floor beams. These details are available and have been pointed out to you

Stann

The core did not have a floor. It had hallways and that forming is no where near the hallways.

You are a professional New Zealand liar stan, supporting the secret means of mass murder with manipulation, misrepresentation and deception.

stannrodd

08-02-2009, 10:17 PM

Deleted by Stann

stannrodd

08-02-2009, 10:21 PM

The core did not have a floor. It had hallways and that forming is no where near the hallways.

Let me get this straight oh wise one.. the hallways had walls, ceilings, doors to kitchens and toilets, and utility areas, cleaners cupboards, access to elevators .. but wait for it folks .. there were ..

NO FLOORS ! ..

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/hahaha.gif

People just floated around didn't they Chris .. oh dear !!

Here is the "Criteria for Design" - Floor inside of core area - Unit Dead Load.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/designcriteria.jpg

You are a professional New Zealand liar stan, supporting the secret means of mass murder with manipulation, misrepresentation and deception.

Of course I am Chris !!:D

Keep taking the pills mate.

Stann

tannah

09-02-2009, 01:36 AM

O dear, 400 page bicker coming up. By the time we get anywhere it will be the year 2378 and the regime will be creating a one galaxy order.

christophera

09-02-2009, 02:01 AM

Let me get this straight oh wise one.. the hallways had walls, ceilings, doors to kitchens and toilets, and utility areas, cleaners cupboards, access to elevators .. but wait for it folks .. there were ..

Stann

The only floors were on the skylobby levels. The core was for elevators and stairways. Yes there were bathrooms and janitor closets and hallways, but your picture with the wood forming does not show those areas of the core.

Professonal liars from New Zealand working to support secret mass murder and the demise of the US Constitution have no evidence to support the existence of steel core columns where they would be seen in the core area on 9-11 if they existed. All they can do is misrepresent construction photos..

tannah

09-02-2009, 02:28 AM

The only floors were on the skylobby levels. The core was for elevators and stairways. Yes there were bathrooms and janitor closets and hallways, but your picture with the wood forming does not show those areas of the core.

Professonal liars from New Zealand working to support secret mass murder and the demise of the US Constitution have no evidence to support the existence of steel core columns where they would be seen in the core area on 9-11 if they existed. All they can do is misrepresent construction photos..

Chris, hasn't it occurred to you that the twin towers are no longer there, and even if you are right about evidence being hidden or destoyed, it's a little late now to try and convince the public with a theory that is simply too hard for the every day man and woman to comprehend? You can show these images of yours to Mrs Jones and Mr Brown, and they will look at you and not be able to agree that it is of the concrete core.

So even if you are right, we can't get the backing of folk with such a theory now. It won't take off. If you want these mass murderers brought to justice you simply have to unite with others that have the same desire to bring these murders to justice. When they have been brought to justice, you can pull out your nifty theory about how the twin towers were really constructed.

K.I.S.S

stannrodd

09-02-2009, 02:38 AM

The only floors were on the skylobby levels. The core was for elevators and stairways. Yes there were bathrooms and janitor closets and hallways, but your picture with the wood forming does not show those areas of the core.....

Doesn't show what areas of the core Chris???

Please inform the audience of how you know that it doesn't show those areas Chris.

Do you have a set of plans which shows the layout of each of the 110 above ground level core areas. How about you deal with the picture I've shown .. this one ..

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im_652_lg.jpg

the lower form work would seem to be about the same level as the mezzanine.

Perhaps you could enlighten us ..

Stann

stannrodd

09-02-2009, 04:36 AM

When they have been brought to justice, you can pull out your nifty theory about how the twin towers were really constructed.

Smart, clever, stylish, .. just some of the definitions of nifty.

No where could I find that "nifty" is honest, up front, or in the slightest degree .. a definition of this adjective to describe the wholesale bullsheet that Chris is a purveyor of.

I guess you were being a bit cheeky :D.

You are right though tannah, .. most ordinary folk don't give a "dead dingoes donger" about concrete cores v steel cores .. nor would they know one .. if they tripped over one.

However while Chris insists on preaching this utter crap, I and others will feel the need to set the record straight.

He could drop it .. you never know.. he doesn't have much of a following.

Stann

christophera

09-02-2009, 06:50 AM

Doesn't show what areas of the core Chris???

It doesn't show the inside of the core at all.

Please inform the audience of how you know that it doesn't show those areas Chris.

It looks somewhat diagonally across the lobby stan and no detail is visible in the core. Only the interio box columns are actualy identifiable, as always.

Do you have a set of plans which shows the layout of each of the 110 above ground level core areas. How about you deal with the picture I've shown .. this one ..

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/im_652_lg.jpg

the lower form work would seem to be about the same level as the mezzanine.

Perhaps you could enlighten us ..

Stann

Yea, the same level as the mezzanine outside the core.

How about you deal with the picture I've shown .. this one ..

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif

And then produce one from 9-11 that shows the supposed steel core columns inside the core area from 9-11.

christophera

09-02-2009, 06:59 AM

Chris, hasn't it occurred to you that the twin towers are no longer there, and even if you are right about evidence being hidden or destoyed, it's a little late now to try and convince the public with a theory that is simply too hard for the every day man and woman to comprehend?

They can comprehend that concrete can be easily fractured to fall freely with a small amount of properly placed explosives while steel cannot. The image of the WTC 2 core (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif) is clearly something completely different from what FEMA (http://algoxy.com/psych/psyimages/femacore.gif) presents. When they learn that the crappy little diagram is the ONLY official depicton of the core, they turn pale.

In a face to face presentation, I have no problem. Here, where faces are unseen and there is no accountability, people can easily pretend there is a problem and when there is simualtaneous ridicule, people are easily confused that otherwise would not be.

You can show these images of yours to Mrs Jones and Mr Brown, and they will look at you and not be able to agree that it is of the concrete core.

I have and it goes exactly as I describe above. Then the built to demolish concept puts them into shock, whereupon hitlers "BIG LIE" syndrome takes effect. Are you supporting that effect?

So even if you are right, we can't get the backing of folk with such a theory now.

Which is why the quasi leaders and false .orgs were immediately put into position by the post 9-11 disinformation campaign. I always wondered why so many .orgs sprang up so quickly.

It won't take off.

It already is. Americans are making up their minds quickly. They now see that no one except for one theorist can actually explain what happened feasibly, but, the "BIG LIE" rears its ugly head.

If you want these mass murderers brought to justice you simply have to unite with others that have the same desire to bring these murders to justice.

Yes, and it is working.

stannrodd

09-02-2009, 09:36 AM

You are an idiot Chris !!

How about you deal with the picture I've shown .. this one ..

I have said it many times before Chris..

COLGATE CLOCK , boats and blurry tragedy !!

IMBECILE !!

Did you ever get alive ???

Stann

stannrodd

09-02-2009, 09:37 AM

Absolute nut case !!:eek:

stannrodd

09-02-2009, 09:40 AM

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/5407.jpg

Stann

bryan

09-02-2009, 09:52 AM

They can comprehend that concrete can be easily fractured to fall freely with a small amount of properly placed explosives while steel cannot. The image of the WTC 2 core (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif) is clearly something completely different from what FEMA (http://algoxy.com/psych/psyimages/femacore.gif) presents. When they learn that the crappy little diagram is the ONLY official depicton of the core, they turn pale.

Would a concrete core not suit FEMA's story better than a steel core?

They have the difficult job of trying to convince people the buildings collapsed WITHOUT explosives!

tannah

09-02-2009, 01:24 PM

I have and it goes exactly as I describe above. Then the built to demolish concept puts them into shock, whereupon hitlers "BIG LIE" syndromw takes effect. Are you supporting that effect?

Am I supporting that effect? Do I sound like I support the elite manifesto? Do you want a punch in the mouth?

But no, I want to "catch" the culprits for the centuries of murder and suppression of the human spirit. I know ultimately the responsibility is with us. Mature spirits don't accept manipulation in their minds. Time we woke up.

And I think my way would get there a lot quicker than your way is doing. That's all.

Are you suppressing the clear path to justice Chris? How about you Stann?
What are you two doing quibbling? Which one's Pinky?

christophera

09-02-2009, 06:15 PM

Would a concrete core not suit FEMA's story better than a steel core?

They have the difficult job of trying to convince people the buildings collapsed WITHOUT explosives!

No, a concrete core would not be effected by fire. Not as if steel would be but people know that steel bends and melts with heat, generally, and the FEMA/official deception exploits that with a major generalization.

If it were concrete they could not do that, AND, people would be looking for big chnks of concrete. When they find none, serious questions arise.

christophera

09-02-2009, 06:33 PM

Am I supporting that effect? Do I sound like I support the elite manifesto? Do you want a punch in the mouth?

Without haveing a theory of you own which explains these things,

free fall
total pulverization
superfine, heated particulate
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11fivephenomena.html)

But no, I want to "catch" the culprits for the centuries of murder and suppression of the human spirit. I know ultimately the responsibility is with us. Mature spirits don't accept manipulation in their minds. Time we woke up.

Then find away to support this.

http://algoxy.com/psych/thetreatment.html

I'm WAY ahead of you. This is probably the only way for humanity to recover what the centuries of supressions of human spirit have crushed. It is the way of the "Old World".

Believe it or not, teaching is manipulation, and you can be taught what you don't know. In a mature world we are not afraid of learning of the means of it or subjecting ourselves to the teaching. The intention of the teachers is what makes the difference.

And I think my way would get there a lot quicker than your way is doing. That's all.

Have you clearly outlined that?

Are you suppressing the clear path to justice Chris?

I've actually defined it a number of times on this board in many threads. I'll do it again right now.

Murder requires a due process investigation into the cause of death. The cause of death of near 3,000 was supposed to be a collapse. The groups, NIST, that was officially charged with the investigation into collapse was deceived about the structure they were analyzing. They never had the plans for the Towers.
Any sincere US official can carry a demand from consitutents upwards to authority over them asking for a limited investigation into that deception and do so without sufffering undue political criticism. Asking for clarification of a simple deception is not a flammatory accusation of conspiracy and can be well supported byt he statements of a few structural engineers based on the current evidence.

How about you Stann?
What are you two doing quibbling? Which one's Pinky?

You will find out immediately. It is hard to imagine you cannot cleraly see it. If you cannot then stans continued presence is just enough to keep those who have no clue about structural matters teetering in indecision. That is all the perps need.

I've come down on you for supporting the teetering because stan cannot show the supposed steel core columns in the core area. AND, if such a core existed it would be seen a great deal.

tannah

09-02-2009, 11:43 PM

Without haveing a theory of you own which explains these things,

free fall
total pulverization
superfine, heated particulate
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11fivephenomena.html)

Then find away to support this.

http://algoxy.com/psych/thetreatment.html

I'm WAY ahead of you. This is probably the only way for humanity to recover what the centuries of supressions of human spirit have crushed. It is the way of the "Old World".

Believe it or not, teaching is manipulation, and you can be taught what you don't know. In a mature world we are not afraid of learning of the means of it or subjecting ourselves to the teaching. The intention of the teachers is what makes the difference.

Have you clearly outlined that?

I've actually defined it a number of times on this board in many threads. I'll do it again right now.

Murder requires a due process investigation into the cause of death. The cause of death of near 3,000 was supposed to be a collapse. The groups, NIST, that was officially charged with the investigation into collapse was deceived about the structure they were analyzing. They never had the plans for the Towers.
Any sincere US official can carry a demand from consitutents upwards to authority over them asking for a limited investigation into that deception and do so without sufffering undue political criticism. Asking for clarification of a simple deception is not a flammatory accusation of conspiracy and can be well supported byt he statements of a few structural engineers based on the current evidence.

You will find out immediately. It is hard to imagine you cannot cleraly see it. If you cannot then stans continued presence is just enough to keep those who have no clue about structural matters teetering in indecision. That is all the perps need.

I've come down on you for supporting the teetering because stan cannot show the supposed steel core columns in the core area. AND, if such a core existed it would be seen a great deal.

I'm a man of the people. I intuitively know what will help my brothers and sisters wake up. When I see that kind of spirit I join with it. That's all I can say.

I no longer think anyone needs to provide an alternatvie theory. I think it would be better to bring down the "smells like BS" one. I certainly don't want to make it so that everyone has to become a construction expert before they start seeing they have been conned and are being led astray.

I'm not attacking you actually Chris. And quite honestly I am unable to decide one way or the other if what you say is true. And I don't have time to become an expert. You probably have put your finger on something, or else you would not have endured 400 pages of harrassment at breakfornews.
But what I personally can't see happening is the required energy to bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice coming to rest on your shoulders with the theory you are trying to promote.

Steel , concrete. That isn't the heart of the matter for me mate. That is something we can deal with when the time is right. Am I making myself understood here? It's time for action, not time to convince someone of alternate theories.

Things have moved on. You will find that people are more ready to bring the elites to justice through the latest scams, recession, bail outs etc etc. That is what will cause the riots and the revolutions required. If that doesn't work, then the elites have us beat. They will be able to keep theories like yours as little pets to throw tomatoes at.

white horse

10-02-2009, 12:09 AM

Absolute nut case !!:eek:

Dude - Ok!

Do you two know each other? Are you aquainted form other boards?

Do you mean 'your theories are nuts?'

At least he/she has put some time and effor tinto research,which is more than some of the attackers.

CHristophera pisses me right off with the constant posts on plane topics about demolition/fall sequence, but I at least have some respect for his theories, even if I do not agree.

At least they are possible...

But I agree - stuck in a rut Christophera is...

But hey, lay off the personal insults, we have had enough of negative biting at these boards...

- as an aside, I quite like Christophera, could probaly get along ok in a pub over a pint or two (same goes for you too if you'd care to join us!!) - even if I do think he is misguided about his theories - but hey a minority of one does not make him wrong eh?

I get a feeling about his aura from his posts, and he is not a bad evil or malicious person, unlike the feeling I get from others who post personla insults...

Don't want to see another post binned into the rant room do we!?!?

Nuff said...

Peace and love to you one and all - even (nay ESPECIALLY the trolls, agents and shills!!)

christophera

10-02-2009, 01:08 AM

Dude - Ok!

Do you two know each other? Are you aquainted form other boards?

stan is an internet disinfo stalker. No evidence, no theory, he's a pro. Was a mod at Let's Roll.

CHristophera pisses me right off with the constant posts on plane topics about demolition/fall sequence, but I at least have some respect for his theories, even if I do not agree.

At least they are possible..

If my insistance upon NPT'ists showing reason for the perps to create the backwards impact/fall sequence then you have capacity for reason. In that case it's time to put NPT on the shelf because it is seriously screwing up the movement, what's left of it after the scourge of it's appearance has crippled it.

But I agree - stuck in a rut Christophera is...

Facts are a rut. They remain the same. The fact is that my information actually provides a reasonable explanation for things that nobody can even get close to explaining. My facts are also well evidenced.

stannrodd

10-02-2009, 04:06 AM

Hi white horse,

Chris and I have met on occasion on various boards. First met at LetsRoll which is about where his saga began. I liked him too to start with.

Problem is that all his posts in whichever room or board he posts, it all eventually leads to one thing .. promoting his own websites and his utterly incomprehensible theory about the Twin Towers having been built with tubular concrete cores. He has been making this claim now since at least September 2004 and has yet to show any proof of his claims.

It is the infiltration of any board which allows free and open discussion where he targets. Posts a few irrelevant threads to make himself look genuine then the insipid theory starts to creep in, until it becomes an embarrassment, and he either gets banned or the thread simply dies.

This is his pattern. Typically this thread has a title which implies first that he cares about such an infiltration concept but tricks your members into thinking he is not of that kind.

He is however the infiltrator and what he is doing is sowing the seeds of doubt where facts should be obvious.

Wherever historical facts are presented .. Chris invents pseudo facts to muddy the water.

He sets criteria for discussing his theory.

You can only use images from 9/11 to disprove his theory ????????? Doesn't this at least raise an eyebrow .. why does he require that ???

He constantly uses images provided by FEMA to demonstrate his theory .. yet they are the first agency he accuses of being part of the perpetrators of 9/11.

Anyone who challenges his theory .. anyone who has the knowledge of what he is up to is labelled an infiltrator or an agent or part of the team who did 9/11 ..

Here is a claim he makes at Minuteman Message Board in a thread he started.

http://www.renewamerica.us/bb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8786

Topic Title .. Self-evident truths-Protection of the Constitution

This thread is intended to stimulate meaningful, open, informative discussion in the context of the mission of RenewAmerica and does so without indulgence of unreasonable fears and with as much knowledge as can be sourced from history as is needed above and beyond what was removed.

This is the thread where those "self evident truths" will be brought out. It is a thread free of the minutiae of current politics as they are steered around by mainstream media. This thread gets down to the most fundamental levels of understanding the greater meanings of our nation.

To establish that I am a person that can do this I will present a "self evident truth", a structure of "natural law", logically structured. That truth is the greater meaning of free speech which the founders did not include in the Declaration of Independence. It is self evident and obeys a natural law, that God is love and protects then nurtures life.

Bold added by me.

He seems to have a very high regard for his potential ..

This is also the guy I caught using his own IP address to impersonate Leslie E Robertson the principal engineer for the Twin Towers. In an effort to bolster his theory he pretends to be a very sorry Leslie Robertson who has hidden a lie about the construction of the towers for all these years.

FFS You don't hide a concrete core or install it secretly with plastic explosives in it.

Enjoy your idiot.

Cheers
Stann

christophera

10-02-2009, 04:54 AM

stannrodd

10-02-2009, 09:56 AM

You are wrong..

I do have a website http://psytationstation.com

Stann

bryan

10-02-2009, 12:34 PM

If my insistance upon NPT'ists showing reason for the perps to create the backwards impact/fall sequence then you have capacity for reason. In that case it's time to put NPT on the shelf because it is seriously screwing up the movement, what's left of it after the scourge of it's appearance has crippled it.

I've already shown you that No Planes Theory can accommodate the reverse sequence demolition better than any other demolition theory. If you think my explanation is illogical, please point out exactly which parts of my argument you dispute.

Here's the first half again:

The North Tower had to be hit first because the TV cameras that would film the South Tower explosion had to be on the north side of the WTC. They couldn't be on the south side because of the street layout of Manhattan and the location of the TV studios. As long as the cameras were on the north side, the alleged impact on the south face of the South Tower wouldn't be seen live on TV.

Notice there's no mention of holograms or TV cameras in WTC 1. Please address what I'm saying and not what you'd like me to be saying.

Here's how I tried to make it clearer after you pretended not to understand what I was saying:

I'm referring to the fact that nearly all the TV cameras were pointing at the WTC from either the north, the north east or the north west. Chopper 5 was due west, preparing a cgi insert, and a couple of cameras were close up on the east side. No TV cameras were filming the south face of the South Tower at the time of the explosion. If you didn't know that, it's time you watched a few videos.

Now here's the second half:

The North Tower had to be demolished after the South Tower because the dust from the collapse of the North Tower was meant to be the smokescreen for the demolition of Building 7. Assuming the emergency bunker was used as a control room for the operation, Building 7 would have to be the last building to come down. The South Tower was too far away from Building 7 to provide the smokescreen.

Notice I'm suggesting that WTC 7 didn't fall as planned because the explosives failed to detonate or detonate fully.

And here's how I tried to make that clearer:

I said WTC 7 was MEANT to come down just after the North Tower did. Something went wrong and it took them 7 hours to sort it out. Do you have a better explanation why they would bring it down at 5:30 in the afternoon?

The two halves put together explain why the North Tower had to be hit first and had to come down last.

Don't ask me to prove this is what happened. It's a rationale for the reverse sequence demolition. Just like your rationale, it's not offered as proof of what happened. I would argue that my scenario is more practical than yours, but that's not the main point I'm trying to make. I just want to put an end to your repeated bogus claims that the reverse sequence demolition is not compatible with NPT.

By ignoring my explanation you've shown yourself to be trolling. If you were genuine you'd turn your attention to the Remote-Controlled Planes Theory, which hasn't been able to account for the reverse sequence demolition.

christophera

10-02-2009, 03:57 PM

I've already shown you that No Planes Theory can accommodate the reverse sequence demolition better than any other demolition theory. If you think my explanation is illogical, please point out exactly which parts of my argument you dispute.

I already did and you failed to address the issues there, wherever that series of posts was. By default your theory is defeated, over and over and over again.

Maybe you can remember where you tried your "TV station camera, dust cloud, WTC 7 demo hiding" explanation that DID NOT make sense. I can't. I just remember your rebuttal was WEAK.

ON EDIT:
Okay you reposted part of it so I have to do it again, and again.

The North Tower had to be hit first because the TV cameras that would film the South Tower explosion had to be on the north side of the WTC. They couldn't be on the south side because of the street layout of Manhattan and the location of the TV studios. As long as the cameras were on the north side, the alleged impact on the south face of the South Tower wouldn't be seen live on TV.

Even cameras in WTC 1 on the south side cold not see the WTC 2 impact unless the plane impact sequence I provide, which is logical with the demo sequence that happened. I which case there might be excellent video of a plance hitting the west side of WTC 2 which is EXACTLY what the perps would want in order to justify war on muslim nations. Such gives great credibility to the pentagon strike, a military target, justifying more immediate military retaliation.

Since the hijacker chose to disobey orders the next best thing is use MKultra victims and fake video to derail the truth movement with NPT. Nice act bryan. See what I mean by the perps having confidence in the post 9-11 psyops and preferring anonymity over precision of remotes REQUIRED for NPT.

I said WTC 7 was MEANT to come down just after the North Tower did. Something went wrong and it took them 7 hours to sort it out. Do you have a better explanation why they would bring it down at 5:30 in the afternoon?

I've already answered this. You tools make such a mess of a thread that you cannot even observe the answers to your posts.

SOMETHING bryan? SOMETHING? What bryan? They needed to set more detonators and while they were doing it WTC 7 was smoking giving the demo the excuse of fire.

WTC 7 went down perfectly. Absolutely straight down. Nothing wrong with that demo.

I just want to put an end to your repeated bogus claims that the reverse sequence demolition is not compatible with NPT.

Not only does your explanation not work, you have completely evaded explaining why hundreds of people witnessing the impacts. or whatever you think it was, something (again) not explained, did not express suspicion in the weeks following 9-11 that the news stories did not represent the events seen.

bryan

10-02-2009, 04:51 PM

Even cameras in WTC 1 on the south side cold not see the WTC 2 impact unless the plane impact sequence I provide, which is logical with the demo sequence that happened. In which case there might be excellent video of a plance hitting the west side of WTC 2 which is EXACTLY what the perps would want in order to justify war on muslim nations.

Any TV cameras to the south of the WTC would have captured the impact.

Like you say, that was exactly what the perps would have wanted.

So why were all the cameras positioned to the north?

Why didn't they make sure all the angles were covered?

christophera

10-02-2009, 05:18 PM

Any TV cameras to the south of the WTC would have captured the impact.

And they did, but they were not in WTC 1 which is part of the reason you gave for WTC 1 being hit first. Cameras in WTC 1 could not possibly see the impact on the south face of WTC 2.

bryan

10-02-2009, 05:29 PM

And they did, but they were not in WTC 1 which is part of the reason you gave for WTC 1 being hit first. Cameras in WTC 1 could not possibly see the impact on the south face of WTC 2.

Please provide a link to any footage filmed by a TV camera showing Flight 175 making the hole in the South Tower.

You might as well give up trying to distract me with your nonsense about cameras in WTC 1. I know all your tricks now.

christophera

10-02-2009, 08:45 PM

Please provide a link to any footage filmed by a TV camera showing Flight 175 making the hole in the South Tower.

You might as well give up trying to distract me with your nonsense about cameras in WTC 1. I know all your tricks now.

Hmmm, I don't do planes, because they are unimportant, so you might be right, and I'm thinking of stills. So few will discuss anything common sense here I end up discussing planes just to try and quell the stuff that drives sensible people off.

No nonsense about the WTC 1 cameras it is simple logic that WTC 2 would block view from WTC 1 of WTC 2's south face.

bryan

10-02-2009, 09:39 PM

Hmmm, I don't do planes, because they are unimportant, so you might be right, and I'm thinking of stills. So few will discuss anything common sense here I end up discussing planes just to try and quell the stuff that drives sensible people off.

I've seen every video out there of the second plane and I can assure you there were no TV cameras south of the South Tower. That means that at least 180 degrees of angle weren't covered by the TV cameras. All the videos of the impact were filmed by freelance cameramen, and the first ones to emerge were shown on television in the early evening.

So back to my question. If they wanted to broadcast to the world pictures of a plane flying into the South Tower, why didn't they make sure the TV cameras were covering all the angles? Why risk missing the shot after going to all that trouble?

Even if the TV companies weren't in on it, how could so many professional news teams be careless enough to have all their camera crews on the same side of the WTC?

No nonsense about the WTC 1 cameras it is simple logic that WTC 2 would block view from WTC 1 of WTC 2's south face.

I've never said there were cameras filming from WTC 1. You made it up yourself and tried to use it as a straw man.

christophera

11-02-2009, 02:04 AM

I've seen every video out there of the second plane and I can assure you there were no TV cameras south of the South Tower. That means that at least 180 degrees of angle weren't covered by the TV cameras. All the videos of the impact were filmed by freelance cameramen, and the first ones to emerge were shown on television in the early evening.

So back to my question. If they wanted to broadcast to the world pictures of a plane flying into the South Tower, why didn't they make sure the TV cameras were covering all the angles? Why risk missing the shot after going to all that trouble?

Even if the TV companies weren't in on it, how could so many professional news teams be careless enough to have all their camera crews on the same side of the WTC?

I've never said there were cameras filming from WTC 1. You made it up yourself and tried to use it as a straw man.

You said that WTC 1 was hit first to stop video from being broadcast. You did not provide an adequate or reasonable explanation for why WTC 2 was demoed first.

Seeing as witnesses actually make the issue real, and the video agrees, you really have no point.

Maybe you don't realize but if you are not on top of a building, you might not be able to see the towers at all from many places in the city. It takes some tie to get access and under those conditions, nobody is going to afford you that time.

The engine holes in the towers and the damage on the opposite sides of the towers indicate planes.

You have no evidence bryan, it is all belief, ............ and, ........ there is no way to use your information. It is useless even if true, and it is also meaningless.

On the other hand this discussion is distracting from the FEMA core deception which is more easily used than any other, IF the truth movement could get a moment WITHOUT disinformation, to let real evidence and reason be considered, people with actual experience and knowledge who are fence sitting right now, may get involved. The concrete core actually provides a theory which explains all the phenomena feasibly.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

stannrodd

11-02-2009, 06:29 AM

Since the hijacker chose to disobey orders the next best thing is use MKultra victims and fake video to derail the truth movement with NPT.

Let's get this on the record .. Chris says

.. the hijacker chose to disobey orders

Hmm I wonder how he knows this ..

Then ..

On the other hand this discussion is distracting from the FEMA core deception which is more easily used than any other, IF the truth movement could get a moment WITHOUT disinformation, to let real evidence and reason be considered, people with actual experience and knowledge who are fence sitting right now, may get involved. The concrete core actually provides a theory which explains all the phenomena feasibly.

As I said he would lead into the inevitable theory sheet !! Bold added. Noted as an edit to my post.

Stann

christophera

11-02-2009, 07:15 AM

Hmm I wonder how he knows this ..

As I said he would lead into the inevitable theory sheet !! Bold added. Noted as an edit to my post.

Stann

You won't understand, and don't want anyone else to understand. You have no theory or use for them.

The backwards impact fall sequence is a MAJOR screw up in the perps plans, but they have you, and a bunch of unconsciously programmed MKultra victims for a confusing and frustrating post 9-11 psyops for any who dare enter.

Why would anyone bring evidence or testimony here? An agent who will not reason or observe evidence or carry on normal discourse, a mad professor who will only examine the theory of a collapsing card deck ignoring all evidence, a flock of "no birds" chaotically crying "no planes", as if it mattered even if it were true, and it is not. There is not even any evidence to observe only fake video.

Of course anyone who actually starts to understand something is going to have satanimal breathing ugly ridicule down their honest posting of understanding.

The icke mystery zoo.

stannrodd

11-02-2009, 08:03 AM

You won't understand, and don't want anyone else to understand. You have no theory or use for them.

The backwards impact fall sequence is a MAJOR screw up in the perps plans, but they have you, and a bunch of unconsciously programmed MKultra victims for a confusing and frustrating post 9-11 psyops for any who dare enter.

Why would anyone bring evidence or testimony here? An agent who will not reason or observe evidence or carry on normal discourse, a mad professor who will only examine the theory of a collapsing card deck ignoring all evidence, a flock of "no birds" chaotically crying "no planes", as if it mattered even if it were true, and it is not. There is not even any evidence to observe only fake video.

Of course anyone who actually starts to understand something is going to have satanimal breathing ugly ridicule down their honest posting of understanding.

The icke mystery zoo.

You are into weird ??

What's a "satanimal" ..

Chris on acid ?? !!

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/lsd.gif

:D

christophera

11-02-2009, 08:44 AM

You are into weird ??

What's a "satanimal" ..

Chris on acid ?? !!

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/stannrodd/lsd.gif

:D

Another form of infitrator of the truth movement. No character just noxious evil garbage promoting secret murder and thriving on chaos.

bryan

11-02-2009, 11:39 AM

You said that WTC 1 was hit first to stop video from being broadcast. You did not provide an adequate or reasonable explanation for why WTC 2 was demoed first.

I take this as meaning you now understand and accept the first half of my explanation. That's good, because the second half is even easier to understand.

The plan was to demolish WTC 7 a few minutes after the North Tower came down. The idea was that the dust from the North Tower collapse would conceal the obvious demolition of WTC 7 and the collapse could be explained by falling debris.

Since the emergency bunker was used as a control room for the attacks, WTC 7 had to be the last building to come down. Therefore the South Tower had to come down before the North Tower.

However, the explosives failed and the demolition team only managed to get their act together about 7 hours later.

I don't need any proof of this, just like you don't need to tell us why the hijacker chose to disobey orders. It's just a rationale from the point of view of No Planes Theory.

That means none of the statements below are relevant to this issue.

Seeing as witnesses actually make the issue real, and the video agrees, you really have no point.

Maybe you don't realize but if you are not on top of a building, you might not be able to see the towers at all from many places in the city. It takes some tie to get access and under those conditions, nobody is going to afford you that time.

The engine holes in the towers and the damage on the opposite sides of the towers indicate planes.

You have no evidence bryan, it is all belief, ............ and, ........ there is no way to use your information. It is useless even if true, and it is also meaningless.

If explaining the reverse sequence demolition is so important to you, why don't you denounce the Remote-Controlled Plane Theory, which has so far offered no explanation at all. If you don't do that now, people might think you're using the reverse sequence demolition argument selectively just to bash NPT.

dave52

11-02-2009, 12:11 PM

If explaining the reverse sequence demolition is so important to you, why don't you denounce the Remote-Controlled Plane Theory, which has so far offered no explanation at all. If you don't do that now, people might think you're using the reverse sequence demolition argument selectively just to bash NPT.

He is Bryan, if you read my ongoing argument in the "I was in New York" thread, Chris's explanation of the Reverse/Impact sequence is that the timers were set by people who hadn't sychronised watches and were reliant on Muslim Hi-Jackers. Not only that but these timers couldn't be stopped or altered once they had started.

Since pointing out just how rediculous this is, he's started accusing me of being part of a UK based MKUltra program. Very silly...

gamolon

11-02-2009, 01:41 PM

Hey Chris! Nice to see your still peddling your garbage. Now before you get a big head thinking I'm stalking you like you've commented about others, I got an email from Stann telling me you were here. I decided to come over and see what you were now saying and how you managed to weasel your way onto this board.

I see you use the same tactics here as you do everywhere else. You must have a flowchart you go by when joining a new board. Let's see. Post a few "sincere" posts to get your foot in the door. Wait a few posts and then present your concrete core theory. Then, belittle every person who has even the slightest thing to say against your theory. I see there are a few people here that you've already done this to.

But that's not why I'm here. I wanted to present the evidence that I have that totally disproves your theory.

Anyone can verify the following information by any means. My proof has to do with elevators and their orientation within the towers. The towers were divided into three sections to help control the flow of people throughout. Each section or zone contained 24 local elevators. These elevators were in the middle of the core and were used to access individual floors in each third of the tower. On the outside walls of each core were express elevators. There were 12 on one side and 11 on the other. These would take people to the restaurant at the top or to the second or third zone where people would exit the express elevators into the middle of the core to take one of the 24 local elevators to their respective floor. the key point here is that the express elevators along the outside walls of the core had two doors. One facing the lobby (outside the core) and one facing the middle of the core.

This is all well documented.

Chris' contention is that his core, in WTC1 at least (we'll talk about this later), contained EVERYTHING and that the only access into the elevator cars was from INSIDE the core. This is totally false. At the lobby level, people could enter the express elevators from OUTSIDE the core and as explained above, exit the opposite door into the middle of the core to then access the local elevators for that zone.

When Chris originally started this "theory", he maintained that BOTH towers had no access to elevators from outside the core at the lobby level. Well after weeks of arguing with him, Finally presented pictures and got him to admit that WTC2 did in fact have access at the lobby level to the express elevators from outside the core. It is at this time that he really started pushing his claim that the towers were radically different and that WTC1 still did not have access to elevators outside the core. He even goes on to say that the design of WTC2 was changed to HAVE access from outside the core based on the fact that WTC1 was hard to rent because of this lack of access.

Here is a drawing that Chris has done to show us what his core looked like. It's even got his dimensions on it.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/gamolon/wtc1footprint.gif

Notice that the walls of the core are solid. He says that EVERYTHING was contained within and that you had to go into the middle of the core to access ANYTHING.

Well, he is very wrong. This one simple issue totally crushes his theory. He plainly puts his core walls exactly where the express elevators should be.

OOPS!!!!

I have provided photos and blueprints. He just waves them away. I have talked with people who worked there that have said Chris is dead wrong. That there was access to express elevators outside the core at the lobby level. It what Chris says is true, there would be a 12' wall right where people would access the elevators. Obviously there is not.

Now, he will claim that Stann and I are a team and that we are disinfo agents. So being a disinfo agent, that means that I have a SET story that I need to stick to and provide evidence that is made up to support that story. Well, I have one simple solution for anyone who wants to think that what I say is spoon fed material. Go find someone who worked in or had been to WTC1. Ask them if they could get into the elevators from outside the core at the lobby level. Obviously I don't know who you're going to ask, so how could I get to them first to tell them what to say in order to get them to agree with my story.

As I said before, I have talked with people who worked there. They say Chris is full of crap. I have also just emailed William Rodriguez who worked in the towers to ask him what he remembers.

We'll see.
Another thing Chris likes to do is provide evidence the he himself has only verified. Like the drawings being fake. Has he spoken to a professional about this? What about that video documentary? Has anyone seen him provide it? You would think ONE person would have recorded the show. Why are all his photos only explained by him as to what they contain? It’s always Chris’ explanation and never an outside source. Funny that.

bryan

11-02-2009, 01:58 PM

He is Bryan, if you read my ongoing argument in the "I was in New York" thread, Chris's explanation of the Reverse/Impact sequence is that the timers were set by people who hadn't sychronised watches and were reliant on Muslim Hi-Jackers. Not only that but these timers couldn't be stopped or altered once they had started.

I know he is, Dave. I was just being ironic when I said "people might think".

It was me who realized a few days ago what his explanation was for the reverse sequence. I found it in a post he made on the Loose Change forum. Since then I've realized he told us back in September in the following thread (2nd post down on the linked page):

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=503340

but we probably didn't take any notice of it because it's so barmy.

dave52

11-02-2009, 05:12 PM

Since then I've realized he told us back in September in the following thread (2nd post down on the linked page):

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=503340

Goodness, so he did - I missed that at the time... I re-read chunks of that thread, I remember just how painful it was. I clearly couldn't (and still don't) see the link between NPT and the Reverse/Impact Sequence. As I tried to explain, planes had nothing to do with the destruction of the towers, therefore the R/I Sequence is irrelevant to the NPT... Duh...

Good call on the Remote Controlled plane thing and the R/I Seq, he's been aiming the question at the wrong theory all this time.

christophera

11-02-2009, 05:26 PM

Hey Chris! Nice to see your still peddling your garbage.

stans accomplice is now here for your entertainment. Another agent supporting secret murder is here trying to misrepresent the silverstein plans as something actually used for construction. Mr. photoshopper/liar.

Forget the tin foil, get the party hats.

According to this one, everbodys pencil and scanner makes alien characters like this.

http://algoxy.com/psych/planimages/wtc1rev.tabAA-139.jpg

And plans can show whatever, as long as they come from people that said "pull it" then made $6 billion on the project.

His pay is far less BTW so he generates LOTS of lies and has no accountability.

christophera

11-02-2009, 05:29 PM

He is Bryan, if you read my ongoing argument in the "I was in New York" thread, Chris's explanation of the Reverse/Impact sequence is that the timers were set by people who hadn't sychronised watches.

Another distortion. I said that synchonizaton was not a big deal.

and were reliant on Muslim Hi-Jackers. Not only that but these timers couldn't be stopped or altered once they had started.

Since pointing out just how rediculous this is, he's started accusing me of being part of a UK based MKUltra program. Very silly...

Actually I've upgraded that. You now collect a paycheck for supporting secret murder and punch satans time clock with stan.

stannrodd

11-02-2009, 08:00 PM

...............Actually I've upgraded that. You now collect a paycheck for supporting secret murder and punch satans time clock with stan.

This sort of ad hominum accusation and "global smacking" logic reminds me of a joke ..

SENIOR DRIVING

As a senior citizen was driving down the freeway, his car phone rang. Answering, he heard his wife's voice urgently warning him, 'Herman, I just heard on the news that there's a car going the wrong way on Interstate 77. Please be careful!'

'Hell,' said Herman, 'It's not just one car. It's hundreds of them!'

Stann :rolleyes:

christophera

11-02-2009, 09:06 PM

stannrodd

11-02-2009, 09:45 PM

The infiltration of the truth movement depends on non critical thinkers that ignore obvious signs of collective un reason and ignorance of obvious signs of similar intention between different entities. The infiltration of the truth movement has them built in to make a flock for the sheep to identify with.

Or, when numerous entities purport to stand for truth but are unable to use reason from their separate positions, it is logically safe to presume that they share an adgenda and lack the versitility and adaptability that one actually seeking truth has.

When a sincere truth seeker sees evidence and percieves reasoning consistent, they adapt their thinking to consider another perpective. If, after a time, they cannot see that there is inconsistency with other accumulating evidence, they change their perspective and allow what works to dominate.

There are no exceptions, IF the truth is sincerely sought.

Would you like to explain these ad hominum attacks on someone who is a truth seeker.

I have presented verifiable facts to counter your theory and this is how you behave :confused:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8808

# stans photo IS NOT of the core and evidences the fact of concrete forms itself. Typically he misrepresents evidence.

# You new my answer, but didn't try your lame answer again after the first round with your misrepresentations of these images at BFN and myspace where you ended up looking like a New Zealand supporter of secret murder, ................ again and again.

# And your contempt of wholesome human emotion and spiritual purpose, or sharing it, is noted as well.

# Of course common knowldege and reason mean nothing to you, .......as are here to support the secret means mass murder.

# You are a professional New Zealand liar stan, supporting the secret means of mass murder with manipulation, misrepresentation and deception.

# Professonal liars from New Zealand working to support secret mass murder and the demise of the US Constitution ....

# stan is an internet disinfo stalker. No evidence, no theory, he's a pro.

# You have no web site.
You have no evidence.
You have no theory.
You have no conscience.
You have no purpose other than helping to keep the methods of mass murder on 9-11 secret.
Money is your only purpose ...

# You won't understand, and don't want anyone else to understand. You have no theory or use for them.

# Another form of infitrator of the truth movement. No character just noxious evil garbage promoting secret murder and thriving on chaos.

Sounds like a fair way to conduct yourself in the quest for truth.. :confused:

To me it sounds like you don't like to discuss anything .. rather you prefer to abuse and preach.

Stann