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positive terror
30-08-2007, 01:25 PM
Corruption of the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel)

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah says about the Jews (interpretation of the meaning): “Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will belive in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?” [al-Baqarah 2:75]
Qutaadah said: “The phrase ‘then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it’ refers to the Jews, who used to hear the words of Allaah, then they altered it after they had understood what it meant.”

Abu ‘Aaliyah said: “They took what Allaah had revealed in their Book describing Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and changed its meaning.” Ibn Zayd said: “The phrase ‘[they] used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it’ refers to the Tawraat which Allaah revealed to them; they changed it, making what it permitted forbidden, and what was forbidden allowed, changing the truth to falsehood and falsehood to truth…” [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]

Allaah also said (interpretation of the meaning): “Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places and say: ‘We hear your word (O Muhammad) and disobey,’ and ‘Hear and let you (Muhammad) hear nothing.’ And Raa’ina [in Arabic this means, ‘Be careful, listen to us and we listen to you,’ whereas in Hebrew it means ‘an insult.’] with a twist of their tongues and as a mockery of the religion (Islam). And if only they had said, ‘We hear and obey,’ and ‘Do make us understand,’ it would have been better for them, and more proper, but Allaah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not except for a few.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:46]

The phrase “[they] displace words from (their) right places” means that they misinterpret them and understand them in a way that Allaah did not intend, doing this deliberately and inventing lies against Allaah. [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]

Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “So because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allaah loves al-Muhsineen (good-doers).” [al-Maa’idah 5:13]

The phrase “because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them” refers to the fact that they broke the Covenant which had been made with them, so Allaah cursed them, i.e., He kept them away from following the True Guidance. “[We] made their hearts grow hard” means that they will not benefit from any preaching because their hearts are so hard. “They change the words from their (right) places” means that they play havoc with the words of Allaah and misinterpret His Book, taking it to mean things that were never meant and attributing to Allaah things that He never said; may Allaah protect us from that.

“[They] have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them” means that they stopped following its teachings because they did not want to follow them. Al-Hasan said: “They did not adhere to their religion or keep their duties towards Allaah, without which no deeds are acceptable to Him; their fitrah (innate nature) was not sound and their deeds were not righteous.” [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]

So it becomes quite clear that the ways in which the Children of Israel tampered with the Tawraat and Injeel include the following:

1. Changing
2. Omitting
3. Adding things and attributing to Allaah words that He did not say
4. Misinterpreting the words of Allaah.

When Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent, the original Tawraat and Injeel had already been altered and distorted. Allaah revealed the Qur’aan to His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and guaranteed that He Himself would preserve it, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).” [al-Hijr 15:9]

This distinguishing feature was not found in any Book before the Qur’aan. From the time of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) until the present (more than fourteen hundred years) the Qur’aan has stayed the same, and not a single letter of it has been changed, as ancient manuscripts and the hearts of generation after generation of people who have memorized the entire text and earned the title of “haafiz” bear witness. We ask Allaah to guide us to the true and straight path. And Allaah knows best.

megafish33
30-08-2007, 09:09 PM
So it becomes quite clear that the ways in which the Children of Israel tampered with the Tawraat and Injeel include the following:

1. Changing
2. Omitting
3. Adding things and attributing to Allaah words that He did not say
4. Misinterpreting the words of Allaah.


Al salaam a'alaykum,

Nice post. I can't see how any form of terror can be positive but whatever, I always like to browse your posts because they're a good read, and you seem to have a bunch of knowledge concerning Islam.

Anyway, can you please provide some examples when you have time? I suppose you think the words of your god was given (via messenger no?) to the people who later became the children of Israel. Am I correct? But how do you know that there were changes and omissions? Is there an old, old script that the Jewish religious community ignores? Is it written in Hebrew? Do Muslims refer to it to supplement the words of the Qur'an?

Thanks man!

megafish33
03-09-2007, 03:47 AM
Nothing?

kasalt
03-09-2007, 03:59 AM
The Koran and the earliest Muslims did not believe the Bible was corrupted.

WHY do Muslims believe the text of the Bible has been corrupted?

The Quran declares the Bible to be a true revelation of God and demands faith in the Bible. Sura 2:40-42,126,136,285; 3:3,71,93; 4:47,136; 5:47-51, 69,71-72; 6:91; 10:37,94; 21:7; 29:45,46; 35:31; 46:11

1. All these above texts presuppose the availability of the true revelation of God to the people of Muhammad’s day. Sura 3:71,93; 10:94; 21:71
2. A true Muslim is obliged to believe in all the revelations of God. Sura 2:136; 4:136; 29:46
3. The Quran makes no distinction between God’s revelations Sura 2:136

The Qur’an claims that NO ONE can change the Word of God. Sura 6:34; 10:34

Why Do Muslims Believe The Bible Is Corrupted?

In 1064, Ibn-Khazem, FIRST charged that the Bible had been corrupted and the Bible falsified. This charge was to defend Islam against Christianity because Ibn-Khazem come upon differences and contradiction between the Bible and the Quran. Believing, by faith that the Quran was true, the Bible must then be false. He said, "Since the Quran must be true it must be the conflicting Gospel texts that are false. But Muhammad tells us to respect the Gospel. Therefore, the present text must have been falsified by the Christians after the time of Muhammad." His argument was not based on any evidence or historical facts but only on his personal faith, reasoning and desire to safeguard the Quran. This led him to teach that, "The Christians lost the revealed Gospel except for a few traces which God has left intact as argument against them."

Many great MUSLIM teachers DO NOT believe the Bible has been corrupted and ACCEPT the authenticity of our PRESENT New Testament texts.

1. Ali al-Tabari (died 855) accepted the Gospel texts
2. Amr al-Ghakhiz (869) " " " "
3. BUKHARI (810-870) " " " " (he gathered some of the earliest tradition of Islam quoted the Quran itself to support his belief in the text of the Bible Sura 3:72,78)
4. Al-Mas’udi (956) " " " "
5. Abu Ali Husain Bin Sina (1037)" " "
6. AL-GHAZZALI (1111) " " " " (probably the greatest Muslim scholar he lived after Ibn-Khazem but did not accept his teachings)
7. Ibn-Khaldun (1406) " " " " " " (he lived after Ibn-Khazem but did not accept his teachings but rather believed the earlier Islamic teachers.)
8. Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan, founder of the Aligarh College "In the opinion of us Mohammedans it is not proved that corruption (tahrif-i-lafzi)...was practiced."
9. Fakhruddin Razi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas, a nephew of Muhammed, "The Jews and early Christians were suspected of altering the text of the Taurat and Injil; but in the opinion of eminent doctors and theologians it was not practicable thus to corrupt the text, because those Scriptures were generally known and widely circulated, having been handed down from generation to generation."

Sources:

Christians Answer Muslims, Gerhard Nehls, 1992 Can We Trust the Bible?, J Wijngaard Quran, A. Yusuf Ali Kitab al-Asnam, Ibn al-Kalbi, 1952 Sahih al Bukhari, 6th ed. 1986 The Islamic Christian Controversy, LCA 1996

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-not-corrupted-early-muslims.htm

megafish33
03-09-2007, 08:36 AM
Thanks! Will read up when I get a chance tomorrow.

I think most of us know that the vast majority of "holy writings" have probably been changed from time to time. I can't "agree" with Muslims on the fact that Torah and Gospel were "corrupted" on account that they (T&G/Complete Christian Bible with Hebrew Scriptures as base) were written based on earlier myths anyway. What I don't understand is how people can take something that, for a period of time anyway, has it's words pretty much established and confirmed by many sources, "add" to it, and then start coming to their own conclusions about the writers/religious beliefs of their orthodox.