chemtrail info reqd.

[eternal wheel]

hi peeps, i'm new here, just over from 'introductions',
i'd never heard of 'chemtrails' before finding this site. could someone please accurately explain what they are supposed to be?

my father was ex-SBS, then spent over 40 years in the aeronautics industry. i have a fair understanding of meterology, and am a member of the 'cloud appreciation society', so i should have a fair grasp of any answers.

as i said, it's not something i've come across before, and i'm keen to further my knowledge on this subject.
thanks.

[nosferatu_dj]

you might like to start with these threads....

government's admit Chemtrail Operations
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70772

CHEMTRAIL makeing planes, up close & personal
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74026

Commercial plane coming close to chemtrail planes
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1131507

Global, Earth Dimming. NASA's Final Solution
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1249747

Chemtrails Australia
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67355

[eternal wheel]

thanks.
i'll read those links over the next couple of days.
so far all i've seen are nice pics of vapor trails with 'they are drones with holographic projectors in to make them look like passenger jets, spraying us with mind gas'....

i'm slightly sceptical so far, however i'm open to suggestions.
so, what are 'they' spraying on us?
why?
why go to all that bother/ why not just put 'it' in the water supply? far more controllable.
some posters seem to have no knowledge of meterology at all, or civil aviation flight paths.
if airliners are flying (say) north-south and east-west, and the prevailing high alititude wind is north-east to south-west, you'll get the appearance of a 'grid' patern.....
with the right weather conditions, vapour trails can last hours/days, and/or spread to form cirrus type clouds etc.

hopefully those thread links you've posted up will help me understand this most interesting subject.

[eternal wheel]

thanks for those links, you've obviously put lot of effort into them.
unfortunately a lot of the posts are dead/missing/wrong; some lead to WTC stuff, football matches, NWO stuff??
99.9% of the rest are nice shots of vapour trails and naturally occouring cloud formations.
i'd like more info on this one,
http://www.4shared.com/file/106711247/c11b7bcd/Live_Chemtrailing_2007-06-28_8h45_Dover_UK.html
but vapour trails can be thick 'tubes' of condensation, and stop and start suddenly, totally naturally.
if we're being sprayed from the sky (and i'm not saying we arn't) i haven't seen any proof, yet.

in the vid clip of 'chemtrials in Aus', where the particles were supposed to be falling on the lens of the camera, presumably these were collected and sent for independent analysis? what were the results?

global dimming is feasable, but why would Gvmt/military need to do something that commercial airlines are doing quite well on their own?

[banjoreality]

you wanna watch it, you're starting to sound like a disinfo agent, if you DON'T believe in the NWO, aliens, UFO's and a UN conspiracy to controle every single aspect of life on earth (go see the UN's department on population control or their 1974 biodiversity treaty, go see the thread federal water take overs for ex.) then you might have trouble understanding what's going on right above your head (and inside it).
So your daddy works for the military? and he's never heard of weather manipulation? HAARP? and I suppose you've never read the SPACE WEAPONIZATION BILL which mentions the prohibition of "chemtrails" and "exotic" weapons, the term exotic is a reference to alien technology.
Good luck to you mate, chemtrails are more real then your mother, if you need proof then you don't know you're swimming in it.
If this is a thread to debate the reality of chemtrails, then you should go post on a "contrail" forum or something.
THE WORLD'S MILITARY COMPLEX IS MANIPULATING THE WEATHER PERIOD,
most on this site are conscious of it and some are doing everything they can to change things, if you want information and would like to understand more on the subject of DIRECT INDIRECT AEROSOL PROGRAMS (by Battelle for example) please let me know, I would gladly provide all the info I have, but no debate, I've been far enough down the rabbit hole to know this is no joke.
Take care,
banjoboy

[nosferatu_dj]

as the previous poster pointed out.... there is SO much info out there availible to the public. you say "my father was ex-SBS, then spent over 40 years in the aeronautics industry. i have a fair understanding of meterology, and am a member of the 'cloud appreciation society', so i should have a fair grasp of any answers."

yet it seems you and or your dad knows NOTHING.... OR you are a dis-info agent of some kind..... but just so i do not leave you with no answers at all i will show you yet MORE PROOF:........

The military's new "Toys"
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72909

http://www.popsci.com.au/article/2007-10/use-predators-expand-border

http://www.popsci.com.au/military-aviation-space/article/2008-06/militarys-mystery-machine

The Military's Mystery Machine

The High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program, or HAARP, has been called a missile-defense tool and a mind-control device. The truth is a bit less ominous
By Abe Streep Posted 19.06.2008 at 5:36 am

http://www.popsci.com.au/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/haarp_main.jpgNorthern Exposure: With HAARP, an antenna array located 200 miles north of Anchorage, Alaska, scientists study the outer atmosphere by zapping it with radio waves generated by 3,600 kilowatts of electricity. Appropriately, it has a great view of the aurora borealis. U.S. Naval Research Laboratory
If the paranoid blogosphere is to be believed, every morning a group of plasma-physics grad students wakes up at a research facility in Gakona, Alaska, 200 miles north of Anchorage, and prepares for another day of playing God. It’s cold, dark as a mineshaft in winter, and the day’s work does little to cheer the mood. Depending on the unpredictable agendas of military scientists, this group of technicians must shoot radio waves into the upper reaches of our atmosphere to create missile shields, eviscerate enemy satellites, set off the occasional earthquake, or control the minds of millions of people.

http://www.popsci.com.au/files/imagecache/article_image_small/files/articles/haarpe,b.jpgSkywave Propogation: Radio waves travel in straight lines, but the Earth isn’t flat, so sending radio signals to the other side of the world is tricky. HAARP’s findings could lead to ways to extend the range of radio signals by creating irregularities in the ionosphere that would bounce signals across long distances. Paul Wootton

The truth is, though, that the High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program, or HAARP—the 180-antenna array that became fully operational last year when the defense-systems contractor BAE finished installing transmitters—is nothing more sinister than a research station. And now, 15 years after construction on the station began, HAARP’s managers are seeing what the fully powered system can do; most recently, they’ve begun zapping the moon with the hope of determining the composition of its soil. “It’s up, it runs, it performs beautifully,” says Ed Kennedy, the former HAARP program manager for the Naval Research Lab. “HAARP is a great example of a project that from start to finish stayed on schedule and on budget.”

HAARP’s purpose is to study the ionosphere (the section of the atmosphere beginning about 50 miles up in which ultraviolet radiation temporarily strips atoms of their electrons), the magnetosphere (the region in space above the ionosphere where the Earth’s magnetic field affects the behavior of charged particles) and the Van Allen radiation belts (bands of highly charged particles contained in the magnetosphere beginning some 400 miles up). Scientists are interested in the ionosphere because of its ability to affect radio signals; the Van Allen belt, because the radiation there damages satellites, and a better understanding of it could lead to ways to make satellites last longer. “It’s an open plasma-physics laboratory,” says Dennis Papadopoulos, a physics professor at the University of Maryland who helped conceive the idea for HAARP with the Naval Research Lab more than 30 years ago. “You test ideas and scientific theories. Then, if something’s important to the Department of Defense, you apply it.”

http://www.popsci.com.au/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/haarp_infog.jpgIonospheric Manipulation Made Easy: HAARP’s ionospheric research instrument comprises 180 aluminum antenna towers [1] on a 40-acre plot. Together the towers beam radio waves into the ionosphere, which begins about 50 miles up. There, sunlight temporarily strips gas molecules [2] of their electrons, creating charged particles [3]. Scientists tweak HAARP’s signal [4] to stimulate reactions in the lower ionosphere, causing phenomena such as radiating auroral currents, a.k.a. “virtual antennas,” which send extremely low-frequency waves back to Earth. The waves can reach deep into the ocean and could improve submarine communication. At night, the absence of sunlight causes the lowest layer of the ionosphere to temporarily disappear [5]. This allows HAARP to conduct experiments that could lead to better ways to use a process called skywave propagation. Paul Wootton
One application government scientists are particularly interested in is turning the lower ionosphere into a tool for broadcasting radio signals or bouncing them around the curvature of the Earth. By beaming a signal ranging from 2.8 to 10 megahertz into the ionosphere and then pulsing the signal, HAARP stimulates what’s called a “virtual antenna”—a radio interaction that causes the ionosphere to send a very low-frequency signal back down to Earth. The phenomenon could theoretically improve submarine communication. Because salty, conductive seawater absorbs high-frequency radio waves, submarines currently operate with wires that reach up into shallow depths to receive usable radio signals. Low-frequency signals like the ones HAARP generates in the ionosphere could allow subs to operate at much deeper depths. “It’s a real signal that comes from space as though there were an antenna up there,” says Paul Kossey, HAARP program manager for the Air Force Research Laboratory’s Space Vehicles Directorate. “But there’s no wire doing it.”

Of course, a vocal minority of HAARP-watchers have their own ideas about the purpose of the $230-million, taxpayer-funded antenna array. For many years, HAARP’s most prominent critic was Bernard Eastlund, a plasma physicist who reportedly worked for the Strategic Defense Initiative (Star Wars) and, later, Advanced Power Technologies Incorporated, the company originally tasked with building HAARP. Eastlund, who some believe was dismissed from the company for his extreme ideas, claimed that HAARP was built with his patents—patents for technologies that could be used to modify weather and disable satellites.

Since Eastlund’s death last December, Nick Begich, son of a former Alaskan congressman and co-author of the 1995 book Angels Don’t Play This HAARP: Advances in Tesla Technology, has led the anti-HAARP crusade. “It’s not that I think it needs to be shut down,” Begich says. “It needs to be monitored more closely and scrutinized. The government hasn’t been up-front about the nature of these programs, and they’re utilizing the system to manipulate portions of the environment without full disclosure to the public.” He worries that HAARP may be capable of mind control because the waves it produces can exist at frequencies similar to those of human brain waves. Citing Eastlund’s patents, Begich also worries that the facility can alter weather. More extreme skeptics, like Jerry E. Smith, author of HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy, suspect that HAARP was rushed into completion after the 2005 hurricane season, which included Katrina, to keep the storms from making landfall. Others say it was responsible for the destruction of the space shuttle Columbia in 2003.

Ask a HAARP scientist about allegations like this, and he’ll either laugh or lose his temper. “This is completely uninformed,” says Umran Inan, a professor of electrical engineering at Stanford University whose research group works with HAARP. “There’s absolutely nothing we can do to disturb the Earth’s [weather] systems. Even though the power HAARP radiates is very large, it’s minuscule compared with the power of a lightning flash—and there are 50 to 100 lightning flashes every second. HAARP’s intensity is very small.”

“You hear these people talking about mind control, and it’s just not serious,” Papadopoulos says. So we don’t need tinfoil hats to prevent evil government scientists from controlling our every thought? “We have difficulty measuring the signal. We do experiments all the time up there, and we don’t wear hats.”

Conspiracy or not? Launch our gallery here to see the great debunking. http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/gallery/2008-06/scientific-tool-or-weapon-conspiracy

Abe Streep is an associate editor at Outside magazine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ociueHOLF84http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ociueHOLF84http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09URi1la7Owhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09URi1la7Owhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7bvFnTvBwghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7bvFnTvBwghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKCBHmwMsFkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKCBHmwMsFk

now if this is not enough info for you then i do not know what else to do other then go on to belive you are here to do 1 or more things.
spread dis-info.... gather info..... trolling.... watever.

[eternal wheel]

you wanna watch it, you're starting to sound like a disinfo agent,
disinfo agent? me?
i'm honoured (in an odd way) that you give my words such credence!

if you DON'T believe in the NWO, aliens, UFO's and a UN conspiracy to controle every single aspect of life on earth (go see the UN's department on population control or their 1974 biodiversity treaty, go see the thread federal water take overs for ex.) then you might have trouble understanding what's going on right above your head (and inside it).
i haven't discussed my views on those topics on this forum yet, so you can have no idea of my views on them.
personal insults so soon? how dissapointing.

So your daddy works for the military?
worked. he's dead.

and he's never heard of weather manipulation?
i don't know, it's kinda difficult to ask him... but i have, it's a known fact.

HAARP?
again, i have, but then i was taking, and passing with distinction, exams in radio transmisions and linked subjects over 30 years ago.

and I suppose you've never read the SPACE WEAPONIZATION BILL which mentions the prohibition of "chemtrails" and "exotic" weapons,
no, i can't say i have.

the term exotic is a reference to alien technology.
is it? really? are you sure? show me some evidence of this.


Good luck to you mate, chemtrails are more real then your mother,
i've seen no evidence yet, some nice pics of vapour trails though.
as i've said on another thread, i'm not denying they exist, i just haven't seen any proof yet.

if you need proof then you don't know you're swimming in it.
If this is a thread to debate the reality of chemtrails, then you should go post on a "contrail" forum or something.
why? is this a closed shop for 'believers' only?
if you are right and i'm wrong, a good debate can only strengthen your position.


THE WORLD'S MILITARY COMPLEX IS MANIPULATING THE WEATHER PERIOD,
most on this site are conscious of it and some are doing everything they can to change things, if you want information and would like to understand more on the subject of DIRECT INDIRECT AEROSOL PROGRAMS (by Battelle for example) please let me know, I would gladly provide all the info I have, but no debate, I've been far enough down the rabbit hole to know this is no joke.
Take care,
banjoboy

i agree that weather can/is being manipulated, no question. but posting up hundreds of pictures of vapour trails as evidence is mis-leading at best.
i would be very greatful to have the chance to peruse your data, as you seem to have studied this subject a fair bit. we may not agree so far, but sharing knowledge can only be a good thing.

[eternal wheel]

as the previous poster pointed out.... there is SO much info out there availible to the public. you say "my father was ex-SBS, then spent over 40 years in the aeronautics industry. i have a fair understanding of meterology, and am a member of the 'cloud appreciation society', so i should have a fair grasp of any answers."

yet it seems you and or your dad knows NOTHING.... OR you are a dis-info agent of some kind..... but just so i do not leave you with no answers at all i will show you yet MORE PROOF:........


now if this is not enough info for you then i do not know what else to do other then go on to belive you are here to do 1 or more things.
spread dis-info.... gather info..... trolling.... watever.

thanks, haarp will come later, at the moment i want to specifically understand so called chemtrails. i understand that haarp is a linked subject, but i want to concentrate on what, if anything, is coming out of the back of these jets.

[eternal wheel]

@ nosferatu-dj

do you think you could reply to the points i raised in my reply to your first post, thanks.

[nosferatu_dj]

ok so you want proof of what is coming out the back of the planes...
proof of chemtrails and there spraying world wide....

go back through all the threads i have provided and if there is any links that are not working then just do a quick Google or youtube seach for the same thing,, same name,,,, and you will find the info.

i know that there is alot of info with dead links on here as it is coz that info has been taken down from that particuler place... NOT that it has been taken off the net completely SO..... PLEASE! do not try saying that you are researching and looking into things as much as what you leed us to belive so far.
so far it seems you want us to spoon feed ALL the info directly to you without haveing you research ALL the info provided so far.... and belive me the info provided so far is enough for ANYONE to see, know the truth of it all.

[nosferatu_dj]

@ nosferatu-dj

do you think you could reply to the points i raised in my reply to your first post, thanks.

so you like me to cover what my opinion is of what " WHATS IT ALL FOR "

there is many a difernt idea as for what is all for and i have my own opinion on it all.........

read all this thread:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73266
Warning! this will scare sheeple and some truthers

if you want to get to a qustion of " so why "
it is all about control, manipulation, power and all that.......... chemtrails is just a part of the " BIG PICTURE "

[banjoreality]

after having gone through the links and document if that's not enough, go to chemtrails france, if that's not enough go for a ride, this site is not open to debate on the subject, we know the reality of these aerosol programs, all we are interested in is working with the awake to awaken more, if your not awake well..... good luck.


www.cienciayespiritu.com chemtrail awareness conference 21st of nov.

[eternal wheel]

this site is not open to debate on the subject

thanks for the clarification. looks like i'm in the wrong place to learn about chemtrails then.
thanks for your time.

[cinbad]

hi peeps, i'm new here, just over from 'introductions',
i'd never heard of 'chemtrails' before finding this site. could someone please accurately explain what they are supposed to be?

my father was ex-SBS, then spent over 40 years in the aeronautics industry. i have a fair understanding of meterology, and am a member of the 'cloud appreciation society', so i should have a fair grasp of any answers.

as i said, it's not something i've come across before, and i'm keen to further my knowledge on this subject.
thanks.

Look up Strange Days, Strange Skys

[mystic nomad]

I am sure we all want concrete evidence of where these planes are flying from, what they are doing and what for. Trouble is we are dealing with secrets that are obviously only known at the very, very highest levels. What I mean is that perhaps NO civilians know the real reason behind what some of us know is going on in our skies.

I first saw a fleet of planes laying a cross hatch grid pattern in a particular area of sky above mid Wales around August bank holiday 2004.
With little or no internet access until the early part of this year, it took until last summer for me to know 100% in my heart, without any shadow of a doubt, that indeed a secret war was being waged above our heads.

The epiphany came after careful observation of flight patterns. I'm stopping not far from an airport and can observe many flight paths from here. I realised that on days of heavy spraying there was an abnormal amount of flight activity coming from and going in directions that are not usual. I also strained to remember my summer holidays from school, lazing around watching the jets leaving contrails. I realised that what I had known deep down all along was in fact true, no matter that everyone I spoke to or questioned about it accused me of being paranoid and still do.

I've only had internet access this year and was amazed and relieved to realise that there is an ever growing number that are recognising what is going on. It can be a very lonely, frustrating place (for me anyway) trying to get the message out.
This sub forum is like a little sanctuary (again, for me anyway) to be in the "company" of other individuals that know this and that is why, no doubt that some of us jump to the defences.

Here is some more reading

http://http://www.chemtrailsuk.net/index.html

http://http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/

http://http://challengingyou.blogspot.com/2009/07/you-are-being-sprayed-with-chemicals.html

http://http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies


Nowhere near conclusive, but.....

http://http://www.northernresistance.info/chemtrailanalysis.html



7.20.2007
Chemtrails - Bio-Active Crystalline Cationic Polymers
7-14-3

Jeff,

I read and observed with much interest the recent micro-photo's sent to me by Kim Weber of the Polymer filaments recovered off the South Oregon Coast. This same group of photo's and article appeared on your web-site.

You are accurate in the comments regarding Clifford Carnicom's study and investigation of these materials. I have also been looking at this strange aerosolized filament technology for about three years. What I have found, after receiving samples retrieved around Seattle, WA., is a cationic reaction polymer that has an unidentified bio-active material within it. My first opinion is that this is the biological control agents released by the Federal DEA to destroy and further control marijuana growing across the United States and certain portions of Canada. We have found that these bio-control agents are genetically mutated fungal forms that have been mutated with viruses and they purportedly find and kill any plants containing THC, the active ingredient.

However, this is a different story of how Big Gov can launch a control agent into the Environment and now the entire clandestine DEA technical effort to control certain substances and drugs,appears to be headed the same direction as that of Jurassic Park..The Movie..recall the ending? Out of control...they didn't expect these mutated monsters to reproduce! Trillions of Fussarium/virus mutated spores fill the air we breathe and secrete a powerful mico-toxin. Associative with Reactive Airway Disease?

The aerosol polymer filaments and webs are a different story, though, based on our limited research. We can never seem to collect enough samples to actually conduct thourough and complete organic/inorganic analyses and the assessment of thebiological section.

We do know that these polymers are of a crystalline morphology, are very friable and break into millions of small fragments in the atmosphere, are inhaled and in some cases are bio-active causing serious skin lesions and diseases when absorbed into the skin. The filaments are lyophillic or are oil soluble (upper epidermis oils melt the polymer fragments and are absorbed into the skin). We have clearly identified the US Air Forces polymer technology used in UV Radiation Mitigation strategies. The use of encapsulated Ultra-Violet Absorbers, Mannin and other organic compounds to absorb UV or reflect radiation have been found in US Patents.

These were provided to the writer by an associate whom was given the US Patent Numbers of the specific technology used, by individuals employed by the US Air Force National Atmospheric Lab at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio (street slang "The Tesla Center") These individuals have been verified to exist. We have viewed the US Patents assigned to Mil Industrial Complex Corporations working as Federally approved Contractors. Hughes Aircraft Corporation is also very involved in the development and articulation, experimentation and deployments of some of these technologies.

Another example in the observation of polymers and filaments deployments are the ChemTrails that appear to be "dashes" in the jet-trails pattern. Much like lines-on-the-road, ticked. These are thought to be the separate, individual reaction-injections of a cationic polymer system that has been mixed in a cannister and immediately ejected into the atmosphere using a venture' eduction spinneret nozzle. The reaction occurs in-situ in the airborne phase. The "cloud-like" dashes are the spent reaction products, until the cannister is empty and then another cannister is prepared (this would be the clear-air space between the dashes). Many commercial US Patents are available for viewing this research.

An example is in California and the utilization of a cationic reaction polymer containing heavy-metal yellow-chromate for highway line-painting. I have actually seen this machine spray the lines. Uniquely, cationic polymers have an extremely high capacity for use of heavy -metals. They don't coagulate due to catalysis. This is fundamentally the opinion of many professional researchers in the ChemTrails debacle that Barium and Aluminum, Cadmium, Selenium and Thorium can be easily sprayed into the atmosphere, are chemically stable and reflect UV and may carry a specific electronic charge. This is the model aerosolized platform.

I could continue this review, however, I will allow you and possibly your readers to digest some this first.

I cannot comment on the Martian connection, however.

My background is that of a Professional Chemist, specifically a Polymer Chemist.

Sincerely,

R. Mike Castle Columbus, Ohio

http://http://biogenesislab.blogspot.com/2007/07/chemtrails-bio-active-crystalline.html

[eternal wheel]

so far it seems you want us to spoon feed ALL the info directly to you
sorry, i didn't realise there was a 'knowledge hierachy' here. so you want to keep 'your' info for you, and maybe a few selected chums? what's the point of that?
surely it's best to share any knowledge you've gained as widely as possible, and make it as easily accessible as poss.

the info provided so far is enough for ANYONE to see, know the truth of it all.

obviously it's not, or i'd be a 'believer' too....
i've seen a couple of military jets doing odd things, but then that's what military jets do... and all the rest are vapour trails and clouds....

it seems odd that i'm having such difficulty here, among my social group i'm the one who's labelled the conspiracy theory nutter. here i'm the disinfo agent???

all i want is checkable data, not pics of vapour trails and ranting.

surely thats not too much to ask?

[banjoreality]

did you go to chemtrails france? did you read the 2001 space weaponization bill (especialy the little bit about the prohibition on chemtrails) ? obviously not or you wouldn't be ranting about vapour trails.
you come here ask for info you look at it and then say nah, BS those are contrails.... so now you can read all the info that's been posted on hundreds of threads here (at the expense and time of the poster) and you Can do your own research on the subject, we are sharing knowledge with you, you don't believe it, go somewhere else, you wanna continue to debate..... then we know you pro co-intel, the modus operandi is always the same.
You want to be branded keep insisting there is no such thing as DIRECT INDIRECT AEROSOL PROGRAMS

[eternal wheel]

did you go to chemtrails france? did you read the 2001 space weaponization bill (especialy the little bit about the prohibition on chemtrails) ? obviously not or you wouldn't be ranting about vapour trails.
you come here ask for info you look at it and then say nah, BS those are contrails.... so now you can read all the info that's been posted on hundreds of threads here (at the expense and time of the poster) and you Can do your own research on the subject, we are sharing knowledge with you, you don't believe it, go somewhere else, you wanna continue to debate..... then we know you pro co-intel, the modus operandi is always the same.
You want to be branded keep insisting there is no such thing as DIRECT INDIRECT AEROSOL PROGRAMS

no, i haven't been to the chemtrails france site yet. i haven't had time.
if i get time i'll look tonight, otherwise it'll be next weekend as i'm working away next week and i don't think there is internet access where i will be.


my thoughts so far?? (glad you asked), i came here a complete sceptic, but willing to learn and be convinced otherwise. i new about silver iodide, but the links i've looked at so far DO show there is something going on.....:eek:

but every day?? globally?? by civil air liners??

i'm still seeing vapour trails, but it's a start, isn't it?

[skylinenorwich]

There is a lot of information out there on the geo-engineering aspect of chemtrails, Wikipedia is an informative read -

List of proposed geoengineering projects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proposed_geoengineering_projects

Atmospheric projects
General proposals

Reflective aerosols or dust
Stratospheric sulfur aerosols
Reflective metal flakes
Reflective atmospheric dust
Marine cloud brightening


Cloud seeding
Burning sulfur
Liquid nitrogen
Silver iodide


Side effects
Geoengineering in general is a controversial technique, and carries problems and risks, such as weaponisation. However, certain problems are specific to, or more pronounced with this particular technique.


Drought, particularly monsoon failure in Asia and Africa is a major risk.
Ozone depletion is a potential side effect of sulfur aerosols; however, the effect has been well studied by the Nobel laureate Paul Crutzen.
Whitening of the sky: Aerosols will noticeably affect the appearance of the sky, resulting a potential whitening effect, and altered sunsets.
Tropopause warming and the humidification of the stratosphere.
Effect on clouds: Cloud formation may be affected, notably cirrus clouds and polar stratospheric clouds.


Delivery methods
Various techniques have been proposed for delivering the aerosol precursor gases (H2S and SO2).[34] The required altitude to enter the stratosphere is the height of the tropopause, which varies from 11 km (6.8 miles/36,080 feet) at the poles to 17 km (11 miles/58,080 feet) at the equator.


Aircraft such as the F15-C variant of the F-15 Eagle have the necessary ceiling, but limited payload. Military tanker aircraft such as the KC-135 Stratotanker and KC-10 Extender also have the necessary ceiling and have greater payload.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check out this yahoo geoengineering group.
http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering

There are many gems to be discovered in there, for example:

jet-fuel-additive
Aviation Fuel Additive to Deliver Stratospheric Aerosols

Unlike most members of this group I am not professionally involved in climate but my suggestion may be relevant to two proposals already discussed in this group.


SO2 producing sulphuric acid. By Paul Crutzen.


Diatoms. From crushed diatomite. Greg Benford and others(diatoms are silica)


I suggest that both the sulphur dioxide and the silica particles could be delivered into the stratosphere by dissolving an additive in jet aviation fuel.


Different chemicals would obviously be required for the two products but the delivery system would be the same and is therefore described first as follows.


How to Deliver Products Into the Stratosphere.

Obviously we would not want to release these products at other phases of the aircraft flight so it is not suggested that an additive should be put generally into aviation fuel. We would want to burn fuel containing the additive specifically when the aircraft was cruising in the lower stratosphere.

The following information comes from a 747-400 captain flying regularly from the Far East to Europe and the West Coast of United States. Being near retirement, and having started his career with the RAF, he describes the flight plan provided to him for a long flight now as amazingly comprehensive and accurate. Such plans rely on detailed knowledge of weather along the whole route including lower stratospheric winds.

In addition he tells me that it is perfectly possible for the pilot to select, for instance, the outer starboard wing tank to feed the outer starboard engine at a particular time during the flight.

It would seem therefore to be perfectly possible to put the additive into one tank only and to use that tank when the plane was defined in the flight plan to be in the stratosphere. Aircraft cruising altitudes vary between about 30 and 40,000 ft (9 to 12km). The lower boundary of the stratosphere varies from about 20,000 ft. (6 km) near the pole to close to 55,000 ft. (17km) at times on the equator.

These heights also vary considerably with weather conditions so careful planning as part of the flight plan would obviously be necessary.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Search with the keywords "Indirect and Semi-Direct Aerosol Campaign" in your favourite search engine for many weather modification documents.


:D

[banjoreality]

no, i haven't been to the chemtrails france site yet. i haven't had time.
if i get time i'll look tonight, otherwise it'll be next weekend as i'm working away next week and i don't think there is internet access where i will be.


my thoughts so far?? (glad you asked), i came here a complete sceptic, but willing to learn and be convinced otherwise. i new about silver iodide, but the links i've looked at so far DO show there is something going on.....:eek:

but every day?? globally?? by civil air liners??

i'm still seeing vapour trails, but it's a start, isn't it?

hey you might not be intel:) if so welcome friend to the weird and wacky modern world, yes they do it globaly, they've been intensifiying since 1999 2001.....please, when you have time look up the space weaponization bill and ask yourself first: what are "exotic weapons"? second why do they prohibit the use of "chemtrails", look if your dad (may he rest in peaceful love) was in the military then you won't have any trouble understanding the HAARP patent.
If your not one of "them" then I sincerely apologize, we get a lot of spooks n trolls and we're kindof weary.
PS your best bet at understanding is by watching the sky (alot).

[nosferatu_dj]

so you say i am ranting now....... maby a little... ONLY becouse so far you are just in denial and will not acept the truth as the truth.

if these 2 threads alone did not convince you then i do not know what will.
i have provided these links before but be it you choose to ingore the facts or what ever it is i have no idea.... i am not going to provide any more info as it is a waste of time trying to convince you when you are provided un-denieble evidence HARD HITTING FACTS:.

UK Government admits deadly spraying
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83072

government's admit Chemtrail Operations
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70772

CHEMTRAIL makeing planes, up close & personal
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74026

Commercial plane coming close to chemtrail planes
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1131507

Global, Earth Dimming. NASA's Final Solution
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1249747

Chemtrails Australia
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67355

[nosferatu_dj]

after going threw ALL THE LINKS.... and as i have said before IF there is any links or videos that dont work, just do a quick seach on google for the missing link and you will find it.

did you watch these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ociueHOLF84

all 4 videos are on my youtube account so you can watch all 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ociueHOLF84

[mystic nomad]

Don't know if you've seen this.....

Chemtrails
A Massive Top-Secret Military Research and Development Project
by Mike Blair

Source: The Spotlight Printed Edition October 9, 2000

This page from http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project376.html to insure that it remains on the internet.

The strange vapor-like trails, or "chemtrails," from jets flying high above much of the nation and elsewhere in the world are part of a massive top-secret military research and development project, possibly linked to the United Nations, researchers have concluded.

A group of about a dozen researchers spent more than a year, mostly in secret, studying the chemtrails. They include experts in electronics, communications, environmental engineering, medicine, biomedical research, chemistry, governmental and political affairs and military theory and technology, as well as veterans of the Central Intelligence Agency and the top-secret National Security Agency (NSA).

The group poured over thousands of scientific, government and military documents, most of which can be found in the public domain but buried among countless papers in highly scientific web sites on the Internet. The researchers also talked with experts in the scientific and military communities.

"It appears that aerosol chemical trails are being deliberately discharged into the atmosphere from military and civilian registered aircraft over the continental U.S., Canada and Mexico," a retired Air Force officer attached to NSA and living in Virginia told The Spotlight in an exclusive interview.

"Selected commercial airliners have been secretly modified and equipped with specialized aerosol dispersion devices to supplement U.S. military aircraft to disperse the substances creating the chemtrails," the former NSA official noted.

According to the NSA officer, civilian airlines were enlisted for the project, which some of the researchers referred to as "Operation Cloverleaf".

The researchers concluded that the chemtrails are composed of barium salt mixtures. Some of the chemtrails also include polymer fibers.

"Several types of experimental polymer fibers are repeatedly being found in various locations subsequent to observed incidences of aerosol discharge by aircraft," a member of the scientific study group told The Spotlight. "Research and development of electronic polymer fibers is identified and described in Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) documents. Other polymer fiber types are mentioned in other government and military documents that we have obtained.



"It is believed that the combination of barium salt mixture and polymer fibers are responsible for the recent nationwide epidemic increase in cases of asthma, allergies and upper respiratory system illnesses, including pneumonia," he said.

The group found that based on the study of various military and scientific documents, the polymer fibers apparently have several applications in conjunction with the barium salt mixture. Among the applications is the "cloaking" of aircraft. When irradiated with the substances, an aircraft is invisible to radar and the naked eye.

There also are advanced radar applications; the decontamination and detection of biological weapons; communications applications, including the ability to direct radio beams back to earth; weather modification as a military weapon; and the secret Air Force Variable Terrain Refractivity Parabolic Equation (VTRPE), which, with the use of sophisticated computers, enables a person to view what an enemy radar system sees.

A scientist familiar with VTRPE research at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio and his knowledge of the use of barium salt mixtures led the group of researchers to delve into the "barium salt connection" to the chemtrails.

A member of the research group told The Spotlight that "an over-whelming array of ongoing military research and development and defense-related activity is layered from ground level into space, including space warfare battle plans and space weapons that have been developed and include advanced laser and refinement of famed scientist Nicola Tesla's scalar (directed energy) weapons technology."

"Tesla's concepts of 'directed energy' are being developed, refined and applied," the researcher continued. "High Frequency Active Auroral Research project (HAARP) ionospheric 'heaters' arepositioned around the world (Alaska, Ukraine, Norway, Russia, Puerto Rico, etc.) and are used to 'heat' and modify the ionosphere. The United Nations, we have found, has knowledge of and sanctions the HAARP project, which is a military project."

The group determined that scientists worldwide are working in cooporation with an organization known only as "Commission G." Different aspects of atmospheric and ionospheric advanced radar studies, research projects and experiments are being studied at the University of Massachusetts at Lowell, the University of Colorado, the Uni. of California at Davis, and the Uni. of Texas at Arlington.

One of the key aims of the studies and experiments is the military objective "to control rain, drought, storms, tornadoes, hurricanes and weather patterns generally," a researcher explained. "Precipitation suppression and enhancement are strategies being refined specifically for implementation in the conduct of future wars."

This experimentation "is directly responsible for the strange weather that is being experienced in the U.S., if not worldwide," the researcher said. "They are simply screwing up our normal weather patterns by dumping barium salt and polymer fiber in vast quantities into the atmosphere."

The group said that armies may eventually become obsolete because of new computerized "vitual warfare technology," which is being developed, refined and actually applied.

According to the group, there is ongoing research and development that includes optics-based communications above the earth, which is similar to fiber-optics but without fibers and communications broadcast on optical beams; a potential chemical and electrical influence on human behavior on a massive scale from above, a super-MK Ultra mind-control program; and electrical power transfer.

The former NSA researcher said "ongoing study of this problem by individual researchers is eliciting concrete evidence that, at the very least, the atmospheric chemistry and circulation of the earth's atmosphere have been disrupted. There is a growing body of evidence to justify concern that the problem with our atmospheric chemistry will extend well into the future."

"Someone is attempting to keep a lid on all of this military research and development activity and, in particular, the chemtrail activity that is literally clouding up America's skies."

According to the NSA researcher, individual members of the group have been threatened. Various document and other materials have been stolen from the homes of some of the researchers.

He said he believes this was done under the direction of a globalist entity, probably the United Nations or a "sub-group," that remains in the shadows and beyond public exposure, at least for now.

[lw71]

http://www.whale.to/b/palit.html

[fekdemasons]

hi peeps, i'm new here, just over from 'introductions',
i'd never heard of 'chemtrails' before finding this site. could someone please accurately explain what they are supposed to be?

my father was ex-SBS, then spent over 40 years in the aeronautics industry. i have a fair understanding of meterology, and am a member of the 'cloud appreciation society', so i should have a fair grasp of any answers.

as i said, it's not something i've come across before, and i'm keen to further my knowledge on this subject.
thanks.

member of a cloud appreciation society ??? (WTF is that ... )

Only just noticed chemtrails ?

Dont make me fucking laugh ! YOUR BUSTED SUNSHINE !

[banjoreality]

ahh, fekdemasons, you spoilt it, the whole point with these loonatic intel agents is to lure them in, make em think your stupid and don´t know, and then spring all the info out you can, saying ahhh how sweet you still don´t believe in chemtrails? then here you go.......

www.chemtrails-france.com

essential site IMO.

ps to intel officers: they will enslave your children too.
you think the devil cuts a square deal? how purile.

[fekdemasons]

Apparently he can't respond as he's "working away" / Infiltrating somewhere else.

Yes he must be in outer mongolia and out of range of the Internet !!

I appreciate the new clouds we've had for the last 10 years dont you.

Yes cumulous toxicus is my favourite , but entirely natural dont you think ? :rolleyes:

What a goon

[willys girl]

Ah new clouds thats whats got my attention.The clouds today are nothing like the clouds when I was a child.Dirty toxic clouds are what I see.Took some photos today will post them as soon as ive loaded them up.

Feckdamasons I have read quite a lot about sylphs.I had always assumed they were something that developed out of a chemtrail.Im hoping I will get sometime to sit and watch them in action myself before I fully commit either way but will keep an open mind.

[eternal wheel]

member of a cloud appreciation society ??? (WTF is that ... )

Only just noticed chemtrails ?

Dont make me fucking laugh ! YOUR BUSTED SUNSHINE !


laugh away, muppet.

i've been watching VAPOURtrails since i was a kid, i.e. about 40 years.
cloud appreciation society? google it. it's a society for people interested in unusual weather. but then you wouldn't be interested in that, would you. coz it's all done by 'the man'.:rolleyes:

[eternal wheel]

Apparently he can't respond as he's "working away" / Infiltrating somewhere else.

Yes he must be in outer mongolia and out of range of the Internet !!

I appreciate the new clouds we've had for the last 10 years dont you.

Yes cumulous toxicus is my favourite , but entirely natural dont you think ? :rolleyes:

What a goon

yeh, 'shopfitting' in the welsh valleys. might as well be outer mongolia. but then i live a life and work for a living, not still at home in my bedroom in the city, with mummy to cook and clean for me so i can stay on the internet all day.:rolleyes:

goon? spike milligan? peter sellers? thanks very much.:)

[eternal wheel]

ahh, fekdemasons, you spoilt it, the whole point with these loonatic intel agents is to lure them in, make em think your stupid and don´t know, and then spring all the info out you can, saying ahhh how sweet you still don´t believe in chemtrails? then here you go.......

www.chemtrails-france.com

essential site IMO.

ps to intel officers: they will enslave your children too.
you think the devil cuts a square deal? how purile.

ok, chemtrails france.com. lots of pics of vapour trails, some doing weird shit, but all totally explainable, and loads of french, which i don't speak.

you know, i came here sceptical but interested, never having heard the term 'chemtrail' before.
i asked questions, but was derided for not 'towing the line', yet you all take the piss out of 'sheeple'....
a lot of info was posted up, (thanks to all that did, by the way), and i came to the conclusion that while i still believe 99% are vapour trails, there is something going on.
that in its self was a totally unexpected result to me.
i'm interested enough to want to study this further, but if this is your attitude then bollocks to you.

which is a shame, i could've been a handy ally.

[fekdemasons]

yeh, 'shopfitting' in the welsh valleys. might as well be outer mongolia. but then i live a life and work for a living, not still at home in my bedroom in the city, with mummy to cook and clean for me so i can stay on the internet all day.:rolleyes:

goon? spike milligan? peter sellers? thanks very much.:)

Not far off Eternal wheel ,


Married with kids , dont live anywhere near the city and cook and clean myself. Other than that spot on SPIKE !

Been unemployed for 6 months after 20 years working and paying taxes.
Just got a job offer yesterday so may be cutting back on posting during the day come next month.

btw , Your frustration at being met with sceptisism I can understand , this is how it feels when you try to even start a discussion with somebody on CTs.

So all off on the wrong foot , I would ask you to contribute further and even to research into the rational explanation. After all , I would love to be categorically proved wrong. I may sleep better at night knowing for sure.

come on over to our side , the waters lovely.

( its just the clouds are shitty )

[eternal wheel]

After all , I would love to be categorically proved wrong. I may sleep better at night knowing for sure.

come on over to our side , the waters lovely.

( its just the clouds are shitty )

i don't think you're wrong.
it happens.
but i think it's rare.
i still say 99% are vapour trails.

all clouds are beautiful. even the man made ones look nice. :)

[rockinrobinsuk]

can you explain why one day there is no trails and next there is loads?
Thats what i dont understand.
why is one day different to another?

[fekdemasons]

i don't think you're wrong.
it happens.
but i think it's rare.
i still say 99% are vapour trails.

all clouds are beautiful. even the man made ones look nice. :)

99% ?

Now your insulting me , I changed my mind. Gave you a chance to show some discernmet but tbh your a marpat clone.
I'll trust my first instinct now.

YOu started this thread requesting information , You've can go on any previous threads or google / u tube there are thousands on this subject. YOur dismissing the topic out of hand.

some lame shit about cloud appreciation society , googled some weather sites.

The onus of proof on vapour trails is on you. Prove to me that normal vapour trails from water vapour can spread out over the sky and hang there.

Contrails dissipate , contrails are normal.

CHEMTRAILS DONT !!

GOON !

[marpat]

99% ?

Now your insulting me , I changed my mind. Gave you a chance to show some discernmet but tbh your a marpat clone.
I'll trust my first instinct now.

YOu started this thread requesting information , You've can go on any previous threads or google / u tube there are thousands on this subject. YOur dismissing the topic out of hand.

some lame shit about cloud appreciation society , googled some weather sites.

The onus of proof on vapour trails is on you. Prove to me that normal vapour trails from water vapour can spread out over the sky and hang there.

Contrails dissipate , contrails are normal.

CHEMTRAILS DONT !!

GOON !

How do you explain trails that are partly concentrated, partly dispersed and partly evaporated then? I have seen various combinations of this.

You are wrong as well. The onus of proof is on those making the accusation. By making a statement then telling people it is up to them to prove it negative you are essentialy stating that you dont have any real proof.

I got a PM today making a claim I was several other people. How sad that people grasp at straws in such a way. It is the same sort of desperate grasping at straws that you see when people use really crap vids and pics to 'prove' chemtrails are all over the palce. Why bring me into this debate anyway when I have been out of the chemtrail threads for some time?

[fekdemasons]

How do you explain trails that are partly concentrated, partly dispersed and partly evaporated then? I have seen various combinations of this.

You are wrong as well. The onus of proof is on those making the accusation. By making a statement then telling people it is up to them to prove it negative you are essentialy stating that you dont have any real proof.

I got a PM today making a claim I was several other people. How sad that people grasp at straws in such a way. It is the same sort of desperate grasping at straws that you see when people use really crap vids and pics to 'prove' chemtrails are all over the palce. Why bring me into this debate anyway when I have been out of the chemtrail threads for some time?

I can't explain something I haven't seen , and I'm certainly not taking your word for shit Marpat.

When you see this phenomina , hey why not take some pictures yourself.
Some high defination camcorder footage with some 70x zoom and antishake.

Ahh but you wont, cause your scared shitless.

furthermore , do we not get reports of this activity from all over the country.

THe fact that there are weeks of no activity and then days of extreme activity not ring any alarms for you ? Or does Jet fuel have dodgy batches that create shitty skies on some days and not others.

I bought you into this debate cause we need you here. Believe it or not I want you to conclusively debunk the subject .

Trouble is your arguments satisfy a few people who want to sleep a bit better at night , but they don't satisfy me and many others.

I am a keen debunker of crap u tube UFO vids etc. If you visit that thread you may see evedence. SO I am naturally wary of false claims and sensationism.

But nobody ever comes in with a beleivable explanation. No official government statement , MPs avoiding the subject , lame , lame , lame.

You ever asked an ATC or a pilot or any ground crew what their opinion is. If your military then its all compartmentalised , dont question orders etc..

If not then intelligence agency , bit of a misnomer. THey advertise on fucking facebook for intelligence staff !

You quote a known satanist who was into esoteric magical practises. Essentially you admire someone who supposedly had magical powers.

Now I'm not doubting he may well have done , but your the logical one round here , did he really sumon demons and perform remote viewing. After all , theres no proof of either.....

Welcom back ,

I look forward to some more sparing. Off the thread but still keeping your eye out I see..

[marpat]

I can't explain something I haven't seen , and I'm certainly not taking your word for shit Marpat.

When you see this phenomina , hey why not take some pictures yourself.
Some high defination camcorder footage with some 70x zoom and antishake.

Ahh but you wont, cause your scared shitless.

furthermore , do we not get reports of this activity from all over the country.

THe fact that there are weeks of no activity and then days of extreme activity not ring any alarms for you ? Or does Jet fuel have dodgy batches that create shitty skies on some days and not others.

I bought you into this debate cause we need you here. Believe it or not I want you to conclusively debunk the subject .

Trouble is your arguments satisfy a few people who want to sleep a bit better at night , but they don't satisfy me and many others.

I am a keen debunker of crap u tube UFO vids etc. If you visit that thread you may see evedence. SO I am naturally wary of false claims and sensationism.

But nobody ever comes in with a beleivable explanation. No official government statement , MPs avoiding the subject , lame , lame , lame.

You ever asked an ATC or a pilot or any ground crew what their opinion is. If your military then its all compartmentalised , dont question orders etc..

If not then intelligence agency , bit of a misnomer. THey advertise on fucking facebook for intelligence staff !

You quote a known satanist who was into esoteric magical practises. Essentially you admire someone who supposedly had magical powers.

Now I'm not doubting he may well have done , but your the logical one round here , did he really sumon demons and perform remote viewing. After all , theres no proof of either.....

Welcom back ,

I look forward to some more sparing. Off the thread but still keeping your eye out I see..

Well if you look at the sky all the time then surely you must have see partial trails. Obviously some things you chose not to notice.

Please explain why I am scared? what have I to fear?

I have actually been to a number of met briefs where persitant contrials are mentioned. They tend to form several thousands feet about normal trails from what I recall of those briefs. You been to anything similar?

So what if I like esoteric stuff? To my mind people use magic every day and are generally unaware of it. The difference between the everyday person and an esoteric student is that one does not try and understand the connections whereas the other does. You claim Crowley is a satanist but do you agree with his words in my sig? perhaps you should read Liber Oz and see what you think of his ideas on the rights of man. Or perhaps read libra librae, the book of the balance. Perhaps you will appreciate how satanic he really is :rolleyes:

[fekdemasons]

Well if you look at the sky all the time then surely you must have see partial trails. Obviously some things you chose not to notice.

Please explain why I am scared? what have I to fear?

I have actually been to a number of met briefs where persitant contrials are mentioned. They tend to form several thousands feet about normal trails from what I recall of those briefs. You been to anything similar?

So what if I like esoteric stuff? To my mind people use magic every day and are generally unaware of it. The difference between the everyday person and an esoteric student is that one does not try and understand the connections whereas the other does. You claim Crowley is a satanist but do you agree with his words in my sig? perhaps you should read Liber Oz and see what you think of his ideas on the rights of man. Or perhaps read libra librae, the book of the balance. Perhaps you will appreciate how satanic he really is :rolleyes:


Am I an everyday person ?

I have attended psychic courses (out of interest ) I have read a spiritual books , studied Reiki , chi Kung , tai chi . Experimented with lucid dreaming , astral projection etc.

I have an engineering degree and have been left brained most of my life. In the last few years I've developed a more balanced perspective and a spriritual quest. I am seeking answers form everywhere , but the fact remains. Untill there is even acknowledgemnt from sections of the media or MET office that this phenomina even exists then I have to conclude there is something to hide.

It is this that makes me question.

The truth , inline with mass vaccinations which started around the same time (early nineties) in this period we have seen dramatic rises in :-

Obesity , diabetes , Alzhiemers , Autism , ADS , mental health problems have exploded.

Is there any doubt that we are under attack from ruthless profit driven madmen in this society ? Wether it is via media brainwashing , health time bombs , selling off of our kids playing fields , violent computer games.

I say to you , if you believe our government and local councils and other agencies of this shit hole we call UKPLC are acting for the betterment of our society then that is up to you.

But fucking with the weather and poisoning our long term health is just as believable as any teachings of ESoteria.

Satanic or not..

[marpat]

Am I an everyday person ?

I have attended psychic courses (out of interest ) I have read a spiritual books , studied Reiki , chi Kung , tai chi . Experimented with lucid dreaming , astral projection etc.

I have an engineering degree and have been left brained most of my life. In the last few years I've developed a more balanced perspective and a spriritual quest. I am seeking answers form everywhere , but the fact remains. Untill there is even acknowledgemnt from sections of the media or MET office that this phenomina even exists then I have to conclude there is something to hide.

It is this that makes me question.

The truth , inline with mass vaccinations which started around the same time (early nineties) in this period we have seen dramatic rises in :-

Obesity , diabetes , Alzhiemers , Autism , ADS , mental health problems have exploded.

Is there any doubt that we are under attack from ruthless profit driven madmen in this society ? Wether it is via media brainwashing , health time bombs , selling off of our kids playing fields , violent computer games.

I say to you , if you believe our government and local councils and other agencies of this shit hole we call UKPLC are acting for the betterment of our society then that is up to you.

But fucking with the weather and poisoning our long term health is just as believable as any teachings of ESoteria.

Satanic or not..

I am not asking anybody to believe in esoteric writings though!! I just see them as mind models rather than undeniable, unchangeable facts. Also, if poisons are in the air, such as heavy metals as people claim, the the evidence should be all around. have you collected any samples? I collected some stuff from my garden which should contain traces of anything in the air for the past few months. All I need is to get this analysed. Proof of subtle energies and mental capability are not so easy to prove. Maybe magic is false as well, I have no need to believe it is completely true.

You sounds like some rabid fanatic going on like that. If you have an engineering degree then surely you must be aware that taking pictures of something in the sky does not prove the existence of chemtrails. Do you know the chemical composition of what you photograph? It is true that aircraft can create such things but I sincerely doubt that it goes on everyday on such a massive scale.

Health problems could be related to many things yet you presume it is down to chemtrails? what about the amount of shit in the air from vehicle exhausts? is it not true that Britain has probably millions more cars on the road than 30 years ago?

I find is really suprising that you have an engieering degree yet seem incapable of gathering actual evidence and presenting this in a professional manner.

[brainstormed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOGUqXRXPts&feature=player_embedded

[fekdemasons]

I am not asking anybody to believe in esoteric writings though!! I just see them as mind models rather than undeniable, unchangeable facts. Also, if poisons are in the air, such as heavy metals as people claim, the the evidence should be all around. have you collected any samples? I collected some stuff from my garden which should contain traces of anything in the air for the past few months. All I need is to get this analysed. Proof of subtle energies and mental capability are not so easy to prove. Maybe magic is false as well, I have no need to believe it is completely true.

You sounds like some rabid fanatic going on like that. If you have an engineering degree then surely you must be aware that taking pictures of something in the sky does not prove the existence of chemtrails. Do you know the chemical composition of what you photograph? It is true that aircraft can create such things but I sincerely doubt that it goes on everyday on such a massive scale.

Health problems could be related to many things yet you presume it is down to chemtrails? what about the amount of shit in the air from vehicle exhausts? is it not true that Britain has probably millions more cars on the road than 30 years ago?

I find is really suprising that you have an engieering degree yet seem incapable of gathering actual evidence and presenting this in a professional manner.


You find it hard to believe that somebody disagreeing with you has achieved a qualification ?

Well that's dilusional...

happy trolling muppett ! sorry marpat

[marpat]

You find it hard to believe that somebody disagreeing with you has achieved a qualification ?

Well that's dilusional...

happy trolling muppett ! sorry marpat

Dont forget that it is YOU who wanted me in here. I had no intention of hanging round in this thread but you stated you need me. I think you must be the real muppet.

You doubt things I say, why should I take you at face value?

What I find hard to believe is that you could achieve such a qualification but be totally ignorant of what is required to prove something and present it. A few snaps of trails and a few vids and links is hardly compelling.

At the end of the day even if you have a degree in engineering it is hardly helping you with your chemtrail studies is it? it might have been more useful if you had a degree in chemsitry.

Have you collected any material yet? I have and I am supposed to be the non-believer.

[fekdemasons]

Dont forget that it is YOU who wanted me in here. I had no intention of hanging round in this thread but you stated you need me. I think you must be the real muppet.

You doubt things I say, why should I take you at face value?

What I find hard to believe is that you could achieve such a qualification but be totally ignorant of what is required to prove something and present it. A few snaps of trails and a few vids and links is hardly compelling.

At the end of the day even if you have a degree in engineering it is hardly helping you with your chemtrail studies is it? it might have been more useful if you had a degree in chemsitry.

Have you collected any material yet? I have and I am supposed to be the non-believer.

If I had wings I would fly alongside the aircraft and take samples directly.

If I had security clearance I could get access to aircraft to inspect them for dodgy devices and the like.

But we both know I cant.

There are plenty of recorded samples on the subject around the net. But Hey I'll play. Tell me what you used to take your sample. I asume from rain water you collected after a series of trails were layed.

I think its Barium were looking for among other things, what parts per million do I need to look out for ?

I'll take some samples and after the next lot of trails.

I look forward to your photographed experiment results , Method statement , apparatus , results and conclusions.

It may be weeks or a matter of days till the next load.

[marpat]

If I had wings I would fly alongside the aircraft and take samples directly.

If I had security clearance I could get access to aircraft to inspect them for dodgy devices and the like.

But we both know I cant.

There are plenty of recorded samples on the subject around the net. But Hey I'll play. Tell me what you used to take your sample. I asume from rain water you collected after a series of trails were layed.

I think its Barium were looking for among other things, what parts per million do I need to look out for ?

I'll take some samples and after the next lot of trails.

I look forward to your photographed experiment results , Method statement , apparatus , results and conclusions.

It may be weeks or a matter of days till the next load.

So if there are recorded samples on the net then how can you not get your hands on some? I take it that the people collecting those samples were not flying behind the planes either so how did they cone to access material? I recall on vid where they took samples from a puddle so what is stopping you? If this stuff is coming down often then it will build up. If it is metal then I hardly think it will evaporate when the weather warms up.

Sounds to me like you are making excuses to just fall back on internet proof. For all of the 'proof' on the internet nobody seems to do fuck all about it. You say you want me here to try and debunk the subject but I am not here to debunk. I have always said I am undecided on the subject until I feel satisfied that the information seems credible or beyond question.

The samples I got were from a layer of dirt that had built up over a period of time on a garden object. because of the long time period I would expect it to give a good chance of a 'hit'

[boots]

Marpet.

Never checks:rolleyes:

From PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed)

U.S. National Library of Medicine (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/)
National Institutes of Health (http://www.nih.gov/)



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15082100&query_hl=2

High level contamination by natural and industrial sources of the alkali earth metal, barium (Ba) has been identified in the ecosystems/workplaces that are associated with high incidence clustering of multiple sclerosis (MS) and other neurodegenerative diseases such as the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). Analyses of ecosystems supporting the most renowned MS clusters in Saskatchewan, Sardinia, Massachusetts, Colorado, Guam, NE Scotland demonstrated consistently elevated levels of Ba in soils (mean: 1428 ppm) and vegetation (mean: 74 ppm) in relation to mean levels of 345 and 19 ppm recorded in MS-free regions adjoining. The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related industries, as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc. It is proposed that chronic contamination of the biosystem with the reactive types of Ba salts can initiate the pathogenesis of MS; due to the conjugation of Ba with free sulphate, which subsequently deprives the endogenous sulphated proteoglycan molecules (heparan sulfates) of their sulphate co partner, thereby disrupting synthesis of S-proteoglycans and their crucial role in the fibroblast growth factor (FGF) signalling which induces oligodendrocyte progenitors to maintain the growth and structural integrity of the myelin sheath. Loss of S-proteoglycan activity explains other key facets of MS pathogenesis; such as the aggregation of platelets and the proliferation of superoxide generated oxidative stress. Ba intoxications disturb the sodium-potassium ion pump--another key feature of the MS profile. The co-clustering of various neurodegenerative diseases in these Ba-contaminated ecosystems suggests that the pathogenesis of all of these diseases could pivot upon a common disruption of the sulphated proteoglycan-growth factor mediated signalling systems. Individual genetics dictates which specific disease emerges at the end of the day.

[boots]

hi peeps, i'm new here, just over from 'introductions',
i'd never heard of 'chemtrails' before finding this site. could someone please accurately explain what they are supposed to be?

my father was ex-SBS, then spent over 40 years in the aeronautics industry. i have a fair understanding of meterology, and am a member of the 'cloud appreciation society', so i should have a fair grasp of any answers.

as i said, it's not something i've come across before, and i'm keen to further my knowledge on this subject.
thanks.

If you are interested in scientific data with reference to contrails versus chemtrails then you will find it here.


http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml


Summary of Results
The goal of this research was to determine if there was a type of trail that was inconsistent with normal contrails, especially with regard to increased persistence. What was found is that highly persistent trails that last for many hours were seen above Houston, TX on a majority (60%) of observable days during the data collection period. However during this time period none of the 46 Flight Explorer confirmed contrails observed persisted for over 30 minutes and most contrails were under 30 seconds of persistence. Additionally it was discovered that the jets that were responsible for leaving highly persistent trails that last for hours did not ever appear on Flight Explorer and were documented for 8 separate instances, including one instance with two jets in formation (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-summary&dbname=img&keywords=unidentifiable&action=searchdbdisplay&sortfield=f6). These unidentifiable jets were found to produce a contrail that was consistent with confirmed contrails during the periods when they weren't leaving highly persistent trails. Highly persistent trails are often seen in the form of isolated relatively short strips (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-summary&dbname=img&keywords=strip&action=searchdbdisplay&sortfield=f6), as well as large areas of cirrus aviaticus clouds, but on rare occasions have been seen in totally unique grid (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-detail&dbname=img&key2=224&action=searchdbdisplay) and wheel (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-detail&dbname=img&key2=632&action=searchdbdisplay) formations.
It is hoped that others will endeavor to repeat these observations and publish their results. By repeating the basic observations for persistence length and whether the flight appears on Flight Explorer, it will be seen whether or not a trend emerges confirming the existence of a unique category of trail. Atmospheric differences due to higher moisture and colder temperatures in different locations will produce greater maximum persistence observed for identifiable traffic. For those in locations with greatest contrailing potential, the task of collecting data on highly persistent trails from unidentifiable flights will be hardest.
In this research I have gone to great lengths to measure and characterize my observations as accurately as possible in order to provide the clearest representation possible given the resources available.
M Steadham



Or you can check this site out.

http://www.chemtrails911.com/supporting_evidence.htm


.

[fekdemasons]

So if there are recorded samples on the net then how can you not get your hands on some? I take it that the people collecting those samples were not flying behind the planes either so how did they cone to access material? I recall on vid where they took samples from a puddle so what is stopping you? If this stuff is coming down often then it will build up. If it is metal then I hardly think it will evaporate when the weather warms up.

Sounds to me like you are making excuses to just fall back on internet proof. For all of the 'proof' on the internet nobody seems to do fuck all about it. You say you want me here to try and debunk the subject but I am not here to debunk. I have always said I am undecided on the subject until I feel satisfied that the information seems credible or beyond question.

The samples I got were from a layer of dirt that had built up over a period of time on a garden object. because of the long time period I would expect it to give a good chance of a 'hit'


So what was in your dirt ??

[mystic nomad]

I would be interested to hear what the OP has to say about this video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWF8Td31Pcc

And his explanation as to how a shadow would have created this black line I managed to capture just before it dissipated.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu232/Nomad23/9-sept-09/dscf0016.jpg

[fekdemasons]

I'm having a spot of trouble trying to embed this video but I would be interested to hear what the OP has to say about it.


http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu232/Nomad23/th_tmp55359.jpg (http://s651.photobucket.com/albums/uu232/Nomad23/?action=view&current=tmp55359.flv)


And his explanation as to how a shadow would have created this black line I managed to capture just before it dissipated.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu232/Nomad23/9-sept-09/dscf0016.jpg

It would be much appreciated if someone could tell me how to get the video to play in a pop up window.


Have you got a U tube account ? They only take a few mins to set up. Then upload your vid to your utube site.

Then you can embed the link to your post. I think its the only way for forumns to view vid files. (not sure 100 %) YOu could of course use another stream hosting site.

[mystic nomad]

Have you got a U tube account ? They only take a few mins to set up. Then upload your vid to your utube site.

Then you can embed the link to your post. I think its the only way for forumns to view vid files. (not sure 100 %) YOu could of course use another stream hosting site.

Cheers, thats a bit more sorted. Perhaps that video should go in your UCO thread:)

[eternal wheel]

I would be interested to hear what the OP has to say about this video.
that's been posted before. interesting. any pics of what the trails looked like 5/10 mins later??


And his explanation as to how a shadow would have created this black line I managed to capture just before it dissipated.

without getting too technical, long, thin things generally produce long, thin shadows.
look at the correlation between the position of the sun, (high up, to the left), the vapour trail, and the shadow.
now look at the same correlation between the sun, the trees in the mid-distance and their shadows.

you've simply got a pic of a vapour trail and it's shadow.
it didn't dissipate, it simply moved from being overhead, in the same way a shadow from a small (round) cloud races accross a field on a windy day.

[fekdemasons]

that's been posted before. interesting. any pics of what the trails looked like 5/10 mins later??




without getting too technical, long, thin things generally produce long, thin shadows.
look at the correlation between the position of the sun, (high up, to the left), the vapour trail, and the shadow.
now look at the same correlation between the sun, the trees in the mid-distance and their shadows.

you've simply got a pic of a vapour trail and it's shadow.
it didn't dissipate, it simply moved from being overhead, in the same way a shadow from a small (round) cloud races accross a field on a windy day.

And if you look closer ...

there is a flying pig ! :rolleyes:

[eternal wheel]

And if you look closer ...

there is a flying pig ! :rolleyes:
no m8, you're not looking properly. if you blow the pig up in photoshop, you can clearly see it's a 'black ops' drone with a holographic projector in it to make it look like a flying pig.
only us who know what to look for can see it's real identity.
they are used to spray radioactive dust into the atmosphere to 'tag' humans, so when the aliens come to collect the gold and diamonds we've mined for them they can see us better.
i would've thought you of all people would've known that, or maybe you're a disinfo agent, wanting us to think that the flying pigs really are just flying pigs?

[fekdemasons]

no m8, you're not looking properly. if you blow the pig up in photoshop, you can clearly see it's a 'black ops' drone with a holographic projector in it to make it look like a flying pig.
only us who know what to look for can see it's real identity.
they are used to spray radioactive dust into the atmosphere to 'tag' humans, so when the aliens come to collect the gold and diamonds we've mined for them they can see us better.
i would've thought you of all people would've known that, or maybe you're a disinfo agent, wanting us to think that the flying pigs really are just flying pigs?




Was this trail laid by the " SHADOW " military ??

Are you a member of the Shadow appreciation society ??



:p:p

[eternal wheel]

i really can't answer that. ;)

[fekdemasons]

i really can't answer that. ;)


Lol , :D:D

:eek:

[boots]

i really can't answer that. ;)

Thought you were after facts?

If you are interested in scientific data with reference to contrails versus chemtrails then you will find it here.


http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml


Summary of Results
The goal of this research was to determine if there was a type of trail that was inconsistent with normal contrails, especially with regard to increased persistence. What was found is that highly persistent trails that last for many hours were seen above Houston, TX on a majority (60%) of observable days during the data collection period. However during this time period none of the 46 Flight Explorer confirmed contrails observed persisted for over 30 minutes and most contrails were under 30 seconds of persistence. Additionally it was discovered that the jets that were responsible for leaving highly persistent trails that last for hours did not ever appear on Flight Explorer and were documented for 8 separate instances, including one instance with two jets in formation (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-summary&dbname=img&keywords=unidentifiable&action=searchdbdisplay&sortfield=f6). These unidentifiable jets were found to produce a contrail that was consistent with confirmed contrails during the periods when they weren't leaving highly persistent trails. Highly persistent trails are often seen in the form of isolated relatively short strips (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-summary&dbname=img&keywords=strip&action=searchdbdisplay&sortfield=f6), as well as large areas of cirrus aviaticus clouds, but on rare occasions have been seen in totally unique grid (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-detail&dbname=img&key2=224&action=searchdbdisplay) and wheel (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-detail&dbname=img&key2=632&action=searchdbdisplay) formations.
It is hoped that others will endeavor to repeat these observations and publish their results. By repeating the basic observations for persistence length and whether the flight appears on Flight Explorer, it will be seen whether or not a trend emerges confirming the existence of a unique category of trail. Atmospheric differences due to higher moisture and colder temperatures in different locations will produce greater maximum persistence observed for identifiable traffic. For those in locations with greatest contrailing potential, the task of collecting data on highly persistent trails from unidentifiable flights will be hardest.
In this research I have gone to great lengths to measure and characterize my observations as accurately as possible in order to provide the clearest representation possible given the resources available.
M Steadham



Or you can check this site out.

http://www.chemtrails911.com/supporting_evidence.htm


.

[rockinrobinsuk]

I suppose smart dust is not real as well as chemtrails hey.
http://robotics.eecs.berkeley.edu/~pister/SmartDust/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartdust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAXMJCn0mWw

[eternal wheel]

I suppose smart dust is not real as well as chemtrails hey.
http://robotics.eecs.berkeley.edu/~pister/SmartDust/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartdust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAXMJCn0mWw

you're so 90's. post something up to date.:rolleyes:

[mystic nomad]

that's been posted before. interesting. any pics of what the trails looked like 5/10 mins later??


So what exactly do you find interesting about it? Why no comment except to try and divert attention away from the fact you didn't comment and asked for pics from 5/10 mins later. Have you an explanation why there is three craft, 2 producing intermittent vapour trails, both just starting up out of nowhere and one finishing abrubtly while the other carries on, all flying so close together. Do you consider this to be "normal" aerial activity?



without getting too technical, long, thin things generally produce long, thin shadows.
look at the correlation between the position of the sun, (high up, to the left), the vapour trail, and the shadow.
now look at the same correlation between the sun, the trees in the mid-distance and their shadows.

you've simply got a pic of a vapour trail and it's shadow.
it didn't dissipate, it simply moved from being overhead, in the same way a shadow from a small (round) cloud races accross a field on a windy day.

You don't have to get too technical, I am sure everyone on this forum knows what a F'ing shadow looks like and how they occur. It is not simply a pic of a vapour trail. Don't try and tell me it didn't dissipate, I took the picture and I watched the "vapour" trail stop, turn into a thick black line and dissipate in under an estimated time of 20 seconds.
Yes the sun is up in the left, it was around mid-day and the picture was taken facing roughly East-West, this goes NO way to explaining what we see here, but heh I guess you had to be here.

For someone that came here asking for info, you spend a lot of time proving to everyone here that you think you know it all, which then proves to me you know nothing, and are desperately clinging to your belief system that has been instilled since birth. To acknowledge there is an aerosol operation going on is quite a shock, I realise that.
It would go down better if you went away for a few years, trawled through the mountains of military applications, patents, documents and white papers, media reports, independent analysis, medical reports, eye witness accounts, pilots forums (where they clearly know what's going on but are obviously scared to talk about it for fear of losing their jobs, repurcussions from environmentalists or perhaps even their safety).

People from all around the globe are trying to find evidence where these aircraft fly from, how can there be so many, what, how, why, where and when but just because the evidence isn't available at the moment doesn't mean to say it isn't happening.

I have no evidence that planet Earth is an ovoid sphere but I personally accept that it is. I certainly wouldn't go around taking the piss out of anyone that didn't accept it was roundish because what I experience personally on a day to day basis with my own 5 senses tells me it's flat.

If you truly are here to genuinely find out a bit more on this subject then I would respectfully suggest you leave your over inflated ego at the door where it says "Earth Changes / Global Warming / Chemtrails / Weather Warfare". If you want to continue being Mr Knowitall look for a forum called "contrails".

I suppose the easy way round this is to go to the establishment sponsered Met Office and ask them what's going on, but then even with the £millions and all the resources available, they can't even get the weather forecast right:rolleyes:

Sad as it is to say, at this moment in time I don't give a toss about con(:rolleyes:) Vs chem trails, the fact that these "vapour" trails can obliterate a normal blue sky and turn it into an unnatural milky slush is very, very wrong and an unlawful act against every organism on the planet, regardless whatever else is going on up there. Perhaps you could explain to us how this happens now when it wasn't happening, let's say 10 years ago?

[eternal wheel]

So what exactly do you find interesting about it? Why no comment except to try and divert attention away from the fact you didn't comment and asked for pics from 5/10 mins later. Have you an explanation why there is three craft, 2 producing intermittent vapour trails, both just starting up out of nowhere and one finishing abrubtly while the other carries on, all flying so close together. Do you consider this to be "normal" aerial activity?
no, that's why i asked for more info.......:rolleyes:





You don't have to get too technical, I am sure everyone on this forum knows what a F'ing shadow looks like and how they occur.
you'd have thought so, yes, but apparently not.


It is not simply a pic of a vapour trail. Don't try and tell me it didn't dissipate, I took the picture and I watched the "vapour" trail stop, turn into a thick black line and dissipate in under an estimated time of 20 seconds.
Yes the sun is up in the left, it was around mid-day and the picture was taken facing roughly East-West, this goes NO way to explaining what we see here, but heh I guess you had to be here.
you will see what you want to see.

For someone that came here asking for info,
yep.
you spend a lot of time proving to everyone here that you think you know it all,
ahh, the self-appointed spokes-person for everyone steps forward. what was that you said about over inflated ego's???:rolleyes:

which then proves to me you know nothing,
interesting 'logic', not sure i follow it though....


and are desperately clinging to your belief system that has been instilled since birth.
have we met? do you know me personally? are you fully conversant with my belief system? no? thought not. :rolleyes: just more bombastic bluster from someone worried he/(she) might be wrong.



To acknowledge there is an aerosol operation going on is quite a shock, I realise that.
indeed it was, but i've already conceded that, and posted regarding it.


It would go down better if you went away for a few years,
and stopped inconveniently poking your fragile little bubble with a pin??

trawled through the mountains of military applications, patents, documents and white papers, media reports, independent analysis, medical reports, eye witness accounts, pilots forums (where they clearly know what's going on but are obviously scared to talk about it for fear of losing their jobs, repurcussions from environmentalists or perhaps even their safety).
of course, you knowing so much about me, know i'm not doing this....:rolleyes:

People from all around the globe are trying to find evidence where these aircraft fly from, how can there be so many, what, how, why, where and when but just because the evidence isn't available at the moment doesn't mean to say it isn't happening.
that just makes your position even less tenable, your admission that a global network of conspiracy theroists have been diligently searching for over 10 years, trying to find evidence of global systematic spraying on a huge scale, and have so far come up with pretty much nothing.
this is the biggest hurdle facing me in this subject, where are the 'secret bases' that these planes are based? there must be hundreds of them on every continent, yet on-one has ever seen one take off or land??

or maybe there is only a much smaller scale spraying by the military, and all the rest are just contrails from civil aviation?


I have no evidence that planet Earth is an ovoid sphere
really??
i've stood places where i can see the curvature of the earth.


but I personally accept that it is.
good for you.

I certainly wouldn't go around taking the piss out of anyone that didn't accept it was roundish because what I experience personally on a day to day basis with my own 5 senses tells me it's flat.
i haven't taken the piss out of anyone.
i may have got slightly sarky, due to incredulity.




If you truly are here to genuinely find out a bit more on this subject then I would respectfully suggest you leave your over inflated ego at the door where it says "Earth Changes / Global Warming / Chemtrails / Weather Warfare". If you want to continue being Mr Knowitall look for a forum called "contrails".
i am, and i have.
i'm not the one with the ego, sonny. (see your earlier posting).



the fact that these "vapour" trails can obliterate a normal blue sky and turn it into an unnatural milky slush is very, very wrong and an unlawful act against every organism on the planet, regardless whatever else is going on up there. Perhaps you could explain to us how this happens now when it wasn't happening, let's say 10 years ago?

it did happen 10 years ago, i certainly remember it.
not as often as now, granted, but there are a hell of a lot more planes up there now spewing out exhaust gasses. have a look at the boeing/airbus books and see how many planes they've sold in the last 10 years.....

personally, i'm a lot more worried about the millions of tonnes of poisonous shite spewing out of china and india......

[boots]

no, that's why i asked for more info.......:rolleyes:



Your a bullshitter.

You think your smart but actually your full of shit, and are not interested in facts.


.

[eternal wheel]

thanks for that.
abuse, the sign of a lost argument.

a come back with facts, (not just random links), would've been more appropriate, but hey, you're an Aussie, what should i expect! :p:p:p:p;)

[boots]

thanks for that.
abuse, the sign of a lost argument.

a come back with facts, (not just random links), would've been more appropriate, but hey, you're an Aussie, what should i expect! :p:p

Trail Research Report
This report is the result of research into the science of contrail formation and an analysis by observation and measurement of contrail persistence. This research was inspired by the claims of an unnatural type of trail known as Chemtrails as an attempt to detect such trails.


To view Report Summary click here (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml#summary).
To view Home Page click here (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/index.shtml).

Chemtrails For several years the existence of an unusual type of aerial activity has been reported, generally termed Chemtrails. Chemtrails are purported to differ from typical contrails in their high degree of persistence and subsequent spreading, as if a substance had been released. The purpose, effects and existence of these so-called Chemtrails are widely debated, however essentially there is a claim made by many that they are witnessing something out of the ordinary, beyond an ordinary contrail. Chemtrails are also said to sometimes differ in their configuration from contrails, as they are supposedly not about getting from point A to point B, but, rather, dispersing some type of substance.

Goals While it is scientifically accepted that normal contrails may persist for hours and spread, the research represented in this report attempts to use the tools available to make a scientific analysis into the veracity of the Chemtrail claims by attempting to isolate any data that might show evidence of such activity. The measurements and observations described in this report can be repeated by anyone who is willing to invest their time and a small amount of resources in a Flight Explorer subscription.

The Scientific Method

1. Observe some aspect of the Universe. 2. Invent a tentative description, called a hypothesis, that is consistent with what you have observed. 3. Use the hypothesis to make predictions. 4. Test those predictions by experiments or further observations and modify the hypothesis in the light of your results.
If the hypothesis needs to be modified repeat steps 3 and 4 until there are no discrepancies between theory and experiment and/or observation. The application of these steps as applied to this study:

1. The long-lasting trails that have been described as unusual by many are the area of interest in this study. Is there such a thing as a Chemtrail, a man-made addition to natural phenomena, that can be detected? 2. Hypothesis: There is a new type of trail that is not consistent with normal contrail persistence and normal contrail formation physics. 3. An analysis of trails, contrails and the presumed Chemtrails, should show whether any such anomaly was present. The prediction is that if the given hypothesis is true then there will be evidence that there is a category of trail that exhibits persistence inconsistent with and beyond verified normal contrails.
To be valid, a hypothesis must be disprovable, or falsifiable. This hypothesis is falsifiable if inconsistent data is not found. 4. The rest of this document is concerned with describing the tools and methods used to collect data and a detailed presentation of that data.
Nov 17-19, 2006 "NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., hosts a
closed-door, high-level workshop on the global haze proposal (http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/-%202006_june-december/Dirty%20Skies%20To%20Shield%20Against%20Warming.ht ml) and
other “geoengineering” ideas for fending off climate change."
Guess who is invited, Paul Crutzen, Nobel Prize-winner
http://www.chemtrails911.com/archive_photos/01_2006_images/paulCrutzen.jpg
Nobel Prize-winner chemist Paul Crutzen thinks
"Artificial injections of sulfur into the stratosphere would cool Earth" (http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/-%202006_june-december/Desperate%20Cooling%20Measure%20.html)_(source (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/story?id=2655729&page=1&technology=true))
There are so many main stream news articles at this link provided by The National
Center for Atmospheric Research and the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research. Please explore (http://www.ucar.edu/news/pressclips/). (backup) (http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/-%202006_june-december/NCARUCARUOP%20Press%20Clips%20Media%20Coverage%20o f%20our%20people%20and%20projects.htm)


The first following U.S. patent is to "the United States Of America as represented by the Secratary of the Navy" for a "contrail generation apparatus" in which "light scattering pigment powder particles" are "dispensed from a jet mill deagglomerator as seperate single particles to produce a powder contrail having maximum visibility or radiation scattering ability for a given weight material".
http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/us%20patent%20for%20us%20navy/us%20patent%20for%20us%20navy.jpg

Well lookie here the government admits it:p:p:p:p:rolleyes:

[boots]

This next U.S. patent is "assigned to Hughes Aircraft Co. for atmospheric spraying with aluminum oxide for allegedly reducing global warming through...seeding the layer of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere with particles of materials characterized by wavelength-dependent emissivity".
http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/us%20patent%20for%20us%20navy/spraying%20with%20aluminum.jpg

[fekdemasons]

Marpat / Eternal Wheel,

Can you (both) please read the summary report in boots post and then come back with your opinions.

THis is the only way we may get anywhere here. I think we all need to stop the antogonism (myself included) , for this doesn't encourage honest dialogue in the end.

The report I mention is an interesting read , Using particles to prevent global warming ??

[eternal wheel]

i skim-read it last time it was posted, but i will read it properly over the next couple of days.

i (still) have no arguement with the 'particles to prevent global warming' idea. it is totally logical, and is probably going on.

the only arguements i have, and have ever had in all my (relatively short) time here, is
1) that of the lingering contrail automatically being a chemtrail.
2) global daily spraying by hundreds of planes on each continent.
3) the hundreds of pics that are blatantly contrails, with cries of 'chemtrail, chemtrail'.


there are obviously some inteligent members on here who have spent a good deal of time researching this subject, but their cause isn't aided by people who don't understand the subject, or meterology, and post pics of contrails (which they genuinely believe to be chemtrails).
when people like me come along, with a reasonable understanding of aircraft, weather etc the whole thing looks laughable.
and clearly it isn't.

i hope this puts my position better.

i would love to be proved wrong, i love a good conspiracy, but at the moment all i'm seeing are 95% vapour trails and 5% things i can't readily explain. when i ask for more info about the ones i can't explain, i get ridiculed as a disinfo agent or non-believer, which doesn't really help me take the rest of you as seriously as perhaps i should.

[rockinrobinsuk]

you're so 90's. post something up to date.:rolleyes:

I was posting that smartdust is used in chemtrails to make a point that chemtrails are real you cock.
I never said anything about the age of this technology so you quote is invalid but this quote is valid "YOUR A COCK" :D
more fact for you
http://www.rense.com/general/chemfacts.htm
http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/archives.html
http://vodpod.com/watch/2031140-full-documentary-weather-warfare-chemtrails-on-the-history-channel-3of4
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/chemtrailsindex.htm
http://www.truehealthfacts.com/chemtrail-page.html
http://www.chemtrailsuk.net/

[eternal wheel]

spelling not your strong point, sweetie??

i presume you mean "you're a cock".
the apostrophe indicates a missing letter, in this case the 'a' in 'are'.


i know full well what you were trying to get across, i was being sarky.:rolleyes::p

i know chemtrails are real. do you know most vapour trails are not chemtrails?

[rockinrobinsuk]

spelling not your strong point, sweetie??

i presume you mean "you're a cock".
the apostrophe indicates a missing letter, in this case the 'a' in 'are'.


i know full well what you were trying to get across, i was being sarky.:rolleyes::p

i know chemtrails are real. do you know most vapour trails are not chemtrails?

Just like facts are not your strong point.
And yes i do know and can see the difference between trails but i see more chemtrails than contrails.
Can you tell me why one day no trails then the next the sky is full why no consistency if 95% are vapour.

[eternal wheel]

Can you tell me why one day no trails then the next the sky is full why no consistency if 95% are vapour.

simples.
it's called

the weather.

on a non-cloudy day, the atmosphere pixies don't feel like making clouds, so they don't bother with vapour trails either.
the next day, the pixies are more active, so you get trails.

gawd, you lot are hard work sometimes, i tell ya.

[marpat]

Marpat / Eternal Wheel,

Can you (both) please read the summary report in boots post and then come back with your opinions.

THis is the only way we may get anywhere here. I think we all need to stop the antogonism (myself included) , for this doesn't encourage honest dialogue in the end.

The report I mention is an interesting read , Using particles to prevent global warming ??

You mean the bit where they talk of producing a powder contrail? never said they couldn't. My doubts are about the degree that people say this goes on. The amount of times people say they see a chemtrail then claim to have all sort of health problems just makes me laugh. How many people wear something to protect themselves? do you wear a respirator during periods of 'heavy spraying'. You could have a room sealed in your house with something to generate overpressure in order to keep any 'poison' out but do you? does anybody? if nobody in here bothers to protect themselves when they claim there is a real threat then that sounds like they lack the courage of their convictions.

I have also seen people claim the 'chemicals' are in the aircraft fuel. I think it was lighgiver who posted a link ages ago that claimed to be an article from some guy who had to put this stuff into the fuel. My question about that is what about broken trails? there are some that are clearly broken so does this mean they turn their engines off?

Also, what sort of aircraft are doing this? if the aircraft are carrying stuff that need injecting into the exhasut then whoever is controlling this spraying would have to be aware of what they are doing. Could civilian pilots legally do such a thing? people will say its the military but in the UK the RAF is so small that there is no way it could possibly be doing this. Obviously the planes need to land and need ground crews to load his stuff up so there could by hundred or possibly thousands of people involved. I want to hear some ideas on who is carrying such a 'project' out and how it is done.

Please dont bother to link rense.com. His pictures of a supposed 'chemtrail pod' were only an embarrasment for his website.

[eternal wheel]

You mean the bit where they talk of producing a powder contrail? never said they couldn't. My doubts are about the degree that people say this goes on.

totally agree.

[boots]

Tim Flannery's radical climate change 'solution'

By Cathy Alexander
AAP
May 19, 2008 07:01pm




Mankind "pump sulphur into atmosphere to survive"
Measure may change colour of the sky
"Would deflect sun's rays, slow global warming"


SCIENTIST Tim Flannery has proposed a radical solution to climate change which may change the colour of the sky.
But he says it may be necessary, as the "last barrier to climate collapse."
Professor Flannery says climate change is happening so quickly that mankind may need to pump sulphur into the atmosphere to survive.
Australia's best-known expert on global warming has updated his climate forecast for the world - and it's much worse than he thought just three years ago.
He has called for a radical suite of emergency measures to be put in place.
The gas sulphur could be inserted into the earth's stratosphere to keep out the sun's rays and slow global warming, a process called global dimming.
"It would change the colour of the sky," Prof Flannery told AAP.
"It's the last resort that we have, it's the last barrier to a climate collapse.
"We need to be ready to start doing it in perhaps five years time if we fail to achieve what we're trying to achieve." Prof Flannery, the 2007 Australian of the Year, said the sulphur could be dispersed above the earth's surface by adding it to jet fuel. He conceded there were risks to global dimming via sulphur.
"The consequences of doing that are unknown."
'Cutting emissions not enough'
Professor Flannery, who spoke at a business and sustainability conference in Parliament House (http://search.news.com.au/search//0/?us=ndmnews&sid=2&as=news&ac=ninews2&r=seealso&q=Parliament%20House) today, said new science showed the world was much more susceptible to greenhouse gas emissions that had been thought eight years ago.
Regardless of what happened to emissions in the future, there was already far too much greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, he said.
Cutting emissions was not enough. Mankind now had to take greenhouse gases out of the air.

[marpat]

Doesnt matter what somebody says their solution is. Can you prove that the trails you see in the sky above you on a daily basis contain chemicals purely by looking at them?

Do you know who pilots the aircraft that are supposedly doing this?

[lw71]

Doesnt matter what somebody says their solution is. Can you prove that the trails you see in the sky above you on a daily basis contain chemicals purely by looking at them?

Do you know who pilots the aircraft that are supposedly doing this?

http://www.carnicom.com/anomalies1.htm

[boots]

Doesnt matter what somebody says their solution is. Can you prove that the trails you see in the sky above you on a daily basis contain chemicals purely by looking at them?

Do you know who pilots the aircraft that are supposedly doing this?


Asked and answered. many times.

Best you stop trolling and discuss the material presented.

Data collected per identified observation:
Length of contrail persistence
Altitude of flight at time of observation
Temperature at altitude
Dew Point at altitude
Degrees of separation at altitude
Flight Id
Basic Aircraft Type
Time and Date

The data collected via the previously described steps constitutes the confirmed contrail observation data. This data is presented in the data collected section of the report. The primary issue at this point is that the highly persistent trails that are of prime interest in this study have not been captured in the confirmed contrail observation data, thus it is necessary to adjust the data collection procedure in order to collect their data.
The sky is observed for flights leaving highly persistent trails. Upon making such an observation, Flight Explorer is checked to determine if it can be identified. If so, the original procedure is followed. If the jet does not appear on Flight Explorer an unidentified observation is recorded. The trail left is observed over time to gauge the persistence. The persistence from these flights is difficult to measure due to the scale of persistence. While most confirmed contrails are less than 30 seconds and can be measured multiple times for accuracy, these trails last on a scale measured in hours. The observed trails continue to exist until the upper-level winds have blown them out of sight. One highly persistent trail was measured for as long as it could be viewed from one location at well over 5 hours of persistence. As the exact altitude is not available via Flight Explorer, the atmospheric data that is recorded is taken from the altitude that has the most favorable conditions for contrail persistence at that hour. This provides the "benefit of the doubt" best-case conditions.
Degrees of separation at the altitude most favorable for contrail production
Temperature at this altitude
Dew Point at this altitude
Time and date
A snapshot of the FE screen may be taken, with direction and location of flight drawn in.

The Flight Explorer screens for confirmed unidentifiable jets leaving highly persistent trails are presented below in the data collected section.
Since the unidentified flights cannot be tracked with Flight Explorer, it is difficult to collect a sufficient volume of data for confirmed unidentifiable flights. To augment the data, an additional process is utilized. Once for each day during the research period that very highly persistent trails were noted, the above process describing use of data from the most favorable contrailing altitude is performed. The data collected via this process constitutes the unconfirmed highly persistent trail observation data, and is also presented below.




Data Collected
The following table represents the data collected for each Flight Explorer confirmed contrail observation. Note that this data includes a few observations with no contrail at all, which are useful for establishing threshold values for contrail formation. Length indicates the length of contrail persistence in seconds. Separation represents the degrees of separation between temperature and dewpoint at the given altitude. Altitude is in feet. Type indicates the basic aircraft type. Times marked with a "~" symbol are approximate values.


Flight Explorer Confirmed Unidentifiable Leaving Highly Persistent Trails

Date/Time Length Sep. Temp. Comment FE Photos 11/21/00 05:10 PM ~4-8 hrs. 4 -59 W by SW http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/view.gif (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/log/Houston112100.jpg) 11/21/00 05:34 PM ~4-8 hrs. 4 -59 Semicircle http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/view.gif (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/log/Houston112100-3.jpg) 12/02/00 11:00 AM ~4-8 hrs. 0 -63 Formation http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/view.gif (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/log/Houston120200.jpg) 1 (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-detail&dbname=img&key2=650&action=searchdbdisplay) 2 (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-detail&dbname=img&key2=651&action=searchdbdisplay) 3 (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-detail&dbname=img&key2=652&action=searchdbdisplay) 12/08/00 01:00 PM ~4-8 hrs. 4 -59 Short strip http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/view.gif (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/unidentifiable.shtml) 12/21/00 09:00 AM ~4-8 hrs. 0 -63 E-W Strip http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/view.gif (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/log/Houston122100-1.jpg) 12/21/00 09:40 AM ~4-8 hrs. 0 -63 S by SW Arc http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/view.gif (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/log/Houston122100-2.jpg) 01/08/01 08:16 AM ~4-8 hrs. n/a n/a Heading East http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/view.gif (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/log/Houston010801.jpg) 01/09/01 10:10 AM ~4-8 hrs. n/a n/a W by SW http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/view.gif (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/log/Houston010901.jpg)

[marpat]

Tell me who you think is operating theses aircraft and what their configuration is

[eternal wheel]

Best you stop trolling

is the word 'trolling' interchangable with 'disagreeing with' on here??


highly persistent trails that are of prime interest in this study
due to favourable weather conditions....

adjust the data collection procedure
to get the results you want. how very scientific.

One highly persistent trail was measured for as long as it could be viewed from one location at well over 5 hours of persistence.

what? like a long, thin cloud?

[boots]

is the word 'trolling' interchangable with 'disagreeing with' on here??

:rolleyes:



due to favourable weather conditions....

Collaborated with all the different weather conditions.



to get the results you want. how very scientific.

Read the whole report. Do I need to hold your hand. Huh.






what? like a long, thin cloud?

LOL Did you even read the report or that sentence you quoted? The trail was observed from an aircraft.

.

[boots]

The following highlighted notice was posted on the weather website, Wunderground.com (http://www.wunderground.com/US/CA/Santa_Cruz.html), at
4:41PM, April 16, 2004 and was displayed with the weather forecast for the Santa Cruz,
California area. It was also displayed with the forecast for the San Francisco and Monterey
Bay areas. The notice was then removed from the website at approximately 6:30PM.
It doesn't get much more blatant than this. Here we are being directly informed that they
are spraying "small particles" over populated areas along with a forecast for rain.
Common sense says that the rain is going to bring a lot of those "small particles" down with
it and we're going to be breathing it in. What goes up must come down, rain or no rain.
There are many unknown health risks involved yet here we are being told that it is occurring
as if it were just as natural of an occurance as the falling rain itself.
Click here to view the full original page that has been saved (http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/Weather%20Underground%20Santa%20Cruz,%20California %20Forecast.htm)
http://www.chemtrails911.com/images/weathersite.jpg (http://www.chemtrails911.com/00-PREWeather%20Underground%20Santa%20Cruz,.htm)
We did not consent to breathe this in! Were we asked for our consent to be a part of
this?! Where's the oversight as to what is really being sprayed?! This is involuntary
exposure with no concern for the health of the public! The whole region is being
sprayed with who knows what and they aren't accountable to anyone it seems!
We the people have the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
We have the right to breathe freely without worry of breathing in
"particles" from an "exercise" by our very own Military!!

[boots]

What are Contrails?

Streaks of condensed water vapor created in the air by jet airplanes at high altitudes. (Merriam-Websters (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary))
Streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. (Encyclopaedia Britannica) (http://www.eb.com/bol/search?type=topic&query=contrail&DBase=Articles&I3.x=25&I3.y=7)
A visible cloud streak, usually brilliantly white in color, which trails behind a missile or other vehicle in flight under certain conditions. (DOD Dictionary of Military Terms (http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/doddict/))
Contrails can exist in two forms: water droplet and ice crystal.
Under what conditions do Contrails form?
The primary factors in contrail formation are air temperature and moisture content. They are usually seen at the higher colder altidtudes, but will even occur at ground level in Antartica, sometimes causing a visibility problem for jets that take too long to take-off. Contrails started becoming a common sight during World War II, when bombers started flying at altitudes above 30,000 feet. They can exist in two forms: water and ice. A water droplet contrail occurs when an airplane flies though cold and supersaturated moist air and the warm water vapour produced by the engine condenses into tiny droplets. Under colder temperatures the water will freeze creating suspended ice-crystals.
The following graph represents contrail data collected for Houston, TX over several months. See the Trail Research Report (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml) for full details.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/img/log/color2s.jpg (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml) Temperature and Humidity (degrees of separation between Dew Point and Temperature).
Red points indicate longer relative contrail persistence, blue shorter persistence.


A Contrail forms upon condensation of water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting water-droplet and/or ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, etc. (Encyclopaedia Britannica) (http://www.eb.com/bol/search?type=topic&query=contrail&DBase=Articles&I3.x=25&I3.y=7)

What are Chemtrails?

Streaks of chemicals created in the air by spray systems (http://www.af.mil/news/Oct1999/n19991004_991835.html) on airplanes at any altitude. Chemicals are sprayed via planes for many purposes including crop dusting and mosquito control. Also fuel is sometimes dumped to reduce weight before landing. But within the Chemtrail observer community Chemtrails are the product of an active large scale operation.
Chemtrails are said to vary from contrails in their length of persistence.
See also (http://www.gilanet.com/wallace/mim24.jpg).
What the hell is really going on?
Some people are reporting what they describe to be unusual activity in the sky, including jets leaving trails at low altitudes, spray lines creating X's (http://www.gilanet.com/wallace/mim29.jpg), S's and parallel lines (http://www.gilanet.com/wallace/mim15.jpg), lines that slowly spread to create a canopy of haze (http://www.gilanet.com/wallace/mim16.jpg), and reports of unusual smells, tastes, and even illness related to the trails.
Also, a reddish-brown gel, dropped from low-flying aircraft, has been observed by people in the past and was even documented on Unsolved Mysteries. (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/unsolved.shtml) Samples of this substance have been alledgedly analyzed (http://www.sightings.com/general2/chemps.htm) by Margareta-Erminia Cassani and found to be teaming with biological organisms.

[marpat]

You seem to have lots of information but tell me this. If theses trails are meant to be poisoning people as many claim then how are the rulers not at risk? do they not breath the same air as we do?

[marpat]

What are Contrails?


A Contrail forms upon condensation of water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting water-droplet and/or ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, etc. (Encyclopaedia Britannica) (http://www.eb.com/bol/search?type=topic&query=contrail&DBase=Articles&I3.x=25&I3.y=7)

What are Chemtrails?

Streaks of chemicals created in the air by spray systems (http://www.af.mil/news/Oct1999/n19991004_991835.html) on airplanes at any altitude. Chemicals are sprayed via planes for many purposes including crop dusting and mosquito control. Also fuel is sometimes dumped to reduce weight before landing. But within the Chemtrail observer community Chemtrails are the product of an active large scale operation.
Chemtrails are said to vary from contrails in their length of persistence.
See also (http://www.gilanet.com/wallace/mim24.jpg).
What the hell is really going on?
Some people are reporting what they describe to be unusual activity in the sky, including jets leaving trails at low altitudes, spray lines creating X's (http://www.gilanet.com/wallace/mim29.jpg), S's and parallel lines (http://www.gilanet.com/wallace/mim15.jpg), lines that slowly spread to create a canopy of haze (http://www.gilanet.com/wallace/mim16.jpg), and reports of unusual smells, tastes, and even illness related to the trails.
Also, a reddish-brown gel, dropped from low-flying aircraft, has been observed by people in the past and was even documented on Unsolved Mysteries. (http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/unsolved.shtml) Samples of this substance have been alledgedly analyzed (http://www.sightings.com/general2/chemps.htm) by Margareta-Erminia Cassani and found to be teaming with biological organisms.

It looks like you cant really trust those who are allegedly making these claims. That analysis link did not work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you ever witnessed a red gel being dropped on you? is that actually related to this thread? I thought the thread was about chemtrails not mysterious substances that are on the ground

[rockinrobinsuk]

simples.
it's called

the weather.

on a non-cloudy day, the atmosphere pixies don't feel like making clouds, so they don't bother with vapour trails either.
the next day, the pixies are more active, so you get trails.

gawd, you lot are hard work sometimes, i tell ya.

So you are saying on a non-cloudy day's there will be no vapour trails made.
So why do i see loads of chemtrails/ vapour trails on non cloudy days?
That must mean they are chemtrails then.
You need to look at the sky more your a joke.

[lw71]

Tell me who you think is operating theses aircraft and what their configuration is

http://www.carnicom.com/anomalies1.htm

[eternal wheel]

your a joke.

that's "you're a joke", the apostrophe denotes a missing letter, in this case the 'a' in 'are'.
please try and pay attention in class. :p

[marpat]

http://www.carnicom.com/anomalies1.htm

Not really an answer and why would they use an aircraft that is invisible to camera but that leave a completely visible trail? what is the point of that. It serves no purpose

[fekdemasons]

Thought these passages were interesting from the 2008 USAF ISF Budjet Agenda.

Courtesy of the USAAF website.

UNCLASSIFIED


Our strategic portfolio model, incorporating our assessments of future budgets and levels of acceptable risks, produces the following recommended USAF ISR portfolio guidance. Category Inv Trend Investment Guidance
Space
Complex, High Resolution (Tier I) Space Systems
Continue to leverage investments in national architecture, while advocating movement to a unified National space acquisition organization. Focus investments on integrating National data into AF DCGS. Continue to support with AF manpower at current levels. Leverage commercial capabil-ities for augmentation. Leverage investments in national and commercial systems and focus Service investments on Tier II systems.
Medium Resolu-tion (Tier II) Space Systems
Pursue a new paradigm for future satellite capability in-vestment: small satellites, less expensive, larger quanti-ties (compared to Tier I systems), and medium resolution. Seek capabilities that are more responsive to COCOM tasking and requirements and follow the Operationally Responsive Space (ORS) concept of launching replace-ments as needed.
Overall Space Systems
Raise overall reliance on space systems to provide persis-tent surveillance over permissive and denied airspace and areas of interest. All space capabilities to include ISR, SSA, Weather, and Integrated threat Warning will provide ISR data to net-centric, Service Oriented Architectures (Joint and National) in near-real-time.Air
High Altitude – Manned Systems
Reduce reliance on manned, high-altitude ISR aircraft sys-tems. Leverage non-traditional ISR capabilities of stealthy high-altitude manned aircraft (e.g., F-22, F-35, next gen-eration bomber), and adapt current planning and tasking processes (e.g., Air Tasking Order) to accommodate ISR assignments for multi-dimensional aircraft.
Theater Capable Unmanned Sys-tems
Continue increasing investment trend in R&D and technol-ogy development for long-endurance / ultra long-endurance, multi-mission capable ISR and non-traditional ISR capable UAS, to include stealthy UAS and untethered airships.
Medium Altitude – Manned Systems
Continue investments in manned ISR and non-traditional ISR aircraft as a bridge to the recapitalization of the air-craft with ISR/secondary ISR UAS. Increase development of non-traditional ISR capabilities for manned fighter and all mobility aircraft.
Local Unmanned Systems
Increase investments in long endurance / ultra long-endurance, multi-mission capable ISR and secondary ISR capable UAS, to include stealthy UAS and untethered air-ships.Small Unmanned Systems
This is primarily a surface service, small unit focused in-vestment area. Leverage interdependencies of sister ser-vices to insure that small units receive the ISR they need to optimize their capabilities.
Overall Air Systems
Future overall ISR air capabilities will migrate towards greater numbers and capabilities in unmanned air systems.UNCLASSIFIED
21
tems (using reachback) than in manned systems. All ISR aircraft and non-traditional ISR aircraft systems must be capable of providing ISR data to net-centric, Service Oriented Architectures19 (Joint and National) in near-real-time. UAS will provide greater persistence and reduce risks to crews, especially in non-permissive airspace. Use of stealthy, non-traditional ISR aircraft will increase the overall collection capability and coverage without addi-tional ISR force structure. Integrated self-healing net-works of airborne ISR systems have the potential to offer solutions to threats to space-based ISR systems.
Cyber
Equipment
Increase investment trend in offensive and defensive net-work capabilities.

[marpat]

And wht do you think that info is claiming?

Why post all that stuff when there are real questions to be answered. Who operates those aircraft and what is their cofiguration? why do the spray 'poison' to the air when the elite breath the same air?

[fekdemasons]

And wht do you think that info is claiming?

Why post all that stuff when there are real questions to be answered. Who operates those aircraft and what is their cofiguration? why do the spray 'poison' to the air when the elite breath the same air?



Its not claiming anything , it is stating the intention to :-


" Raise overall reliance on space systems to provide persis-tent surveillance over permissive and denied airspace and areas of interest "

Using UAS ,

I think its interesting that they declare their intention to spy on restircicted airspace. Utilising unmaned arial surveillance vehicles.

Especially on an Unclassified document. THey have enormous budjets in the MIC as you very well know.

Compartmentalisation of Information .

So utilsation of thousands of personell and aircraft is not beyond the realms.

Of course waging cyber operations using lower grade personnell to disrupt forumns is a possibility also.

[marpat]

Its not claiming anything , it is stating the intention to :-


" Raise overall reliance on space systems to provide persis-tent surveillance over permissive and denied airspace and areas of interest "

Using UAS ,

I think its interesting that they declare their intention to spy on restircicted airspace. Utilising unmaned arial surveillance vehicles.

Especially on an Unclassified document. THey have enormous budjets in the MIC as you very well know.

Compartmentalisation of Information .

So utilsation of thousands of personell and aircraft is not beyond the realms.

Of course waging cyber operations using lower grade personnell to disrupt forumns is a possibility also.

That is an absolutely pointless post. Of course they spy on restricted airspace. Didnt you know that this sort of thing has been going on since the 60's when Gary Powers was shot down over the Soviet Union?

This has nothing to do with chemtrails.

Can you tell me why the elite are not being 'poisoned' by chemtrails as forum users seem to think that they are under attack?

The US might be able to muster a lot of manpower to create many flight in a day but in the UK you would find it not likely.

Why would they use low grade people to wage a cyber war? dont you think that is a bit contradictory statement? dont you think it would be more productive for them to put their very best out there, people who could do the most damage or who have the best ability to convince people about ideas? cyber ops to disrupt forums, as if its all happening in here :D

[fekdemasons]

That is an absolutely pointless post. Of course they spy on restricted airspace. Didnt you know that this sort of thing has been going on since the 60's when Gary Powers was shot down over the Soviet Union?

This has nothing to do with chemtrails.

Can you tell me why the elite are not being 'poisoned' by chemtrails as forum users seem to think that they are under attack?

The US might be able to muster a lot of manpower to create many flight in a day but in the UK you would find it not likely.

Why would they use low grade people to wage a cyber war? dont you think that is a bit contradictory statement? dont you think it would be more productive for them to put their very best out there, people who could do the most damage or who have the best ability to convince people about ideas? cyber ops to disrupt forums, as if its all happening in here :D

it was an insult :rolleyes:

[marpat]

it was an insult :rolleyes:

It would only be an insult if it were true. I know what I am and you dont.

Do 'chemtrals' poison the elite? if not then how not?

[fekdemasons]

It would only be an insult if it were true. I know what I am and you dont.

Do 'chemtrals' poison the elite? if not then how not?


Their Reptillian skin and respitory systems keep it out !!:rolleyes:

[lw71]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83710

[marpat]

Their Reptillian skin and respitory systems keep it out !!:rolleyes:

You truly believe that? so you explain one theory with another one that has even less credibility?

[marpat]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83710

Yeah right, hologram plane and all that. Dogshit.

[fekdemasons]

You truly believe that? so you explain one theory with another one that has even less credibility?

Are You really that Dumb ? :confused::confused:

The Rolleyes icon denotes sarcasm. :rolleyes:

I rather think you need a holiday Marpat , all the multiple arguments you are having on various threads seems to have taken its toll on your cognitive reasoning.

I don't know the answer to your question , I have pondered it. Maybe chemtrails are benevolent ?? But none the less , you deny their very existence. If you know categorically that they dont exist then why the fuck do you even care. Why are you allways here trying to persuade people with empty non scientific explanations.

If you have no agenda , then let people debate and leave well alone , OR prepare some scientific "research based " analysis and present it with some respect.

If it holds water then I will certainly feel better. But untill now its just the usual (out of the manual ) gate keeping.





Some advice ,

Read and interpret posts fully

[rockinrobinsuk]

that's "you're a joke", the apostrophe denotes a missing letter, in this case the 'a' in 'are'.
please try and pay attention in class. :p

Who gives a fuck you should spend more time on facts than correcting my poor grammer.
But i will give you a A+ for being a total prick.:eek:

[marpat]

Are You really that Dumb ? :confused::confused:

The Rolleyes icon denotes sarcasm. :rolleyes:

I rather think you need a holiday Marpat , all the multiple arguments you are having on various threads seems to have taken its toll on your cognitive reasoning.

I don't know the answer to your question , I have pondered it. Maybe chemtrails are benevolent ?? But none the less , you deny their very existence. If you know categorically that they dont exist then why the fuck do you even care. Why are you allways here trying to persuade people with empty non scientific explanations.

If you have no agenda , then let people debate and leave well alone , OR prepare some scientific "research based " analysis and present it with some respect.

If it holds water then I will certainly feel better. But untill now its just the usual (out of the manual ) gate keeping.





Some advice ,

Read and interpret posts fully

I was just playing along with your evasion. You said you wanted me to be in here now you tell me not to come in here. You getting confused?

I said I am undecided on the issue until I am satisfied with the information,

[boots]

It looks like you cant really trust those who are allegedly making these claims. That analysis link did not work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you ever witnessed a red gel being dropped on you? is that actually related to this thread? I thought the thread was about chemtrails not mysterious substances that are on the ground

You missed something.

Why did you focus on that missing link? But not on the observations of a town and its police force and the analysis done by the local hospital and Washington state department of health?


"Robert Stack: The local police were among the first to report the perplexing precipitation. Officer David Lacey was on patrol with a civilian friend at 3am when the downpour began.
David Lacey (police officer): We turned our windshield wipers on, and it just started smearing to the point where we could almost not see. We both looked at each other and we said 'gee this isn't right'. We're out in the middle of nowhere, basically, and where did this come from?
Robert Stack: Officer Lacey pulled into a gas station to de-goo his windshield. As an added precaution, he put on a pair of latex gloves."



"Sunny: For some reason, as we were going out the door, I remembered the substance, and I wondered if perhaps it might have had some sort of effect on her. So, I opted at that moment to take a sample of the gelatinous material to the hospital.
Robert Stack: A lab technician found the first startling clue. The substance contained human white blood cells, but exactly what it was could not be determined. The goo was promptly forwarded to the Washington State Department of Health for further analysis.
Mike McDowell (microbiologist, WSDH): It was very uniform. There was no structure that we could see visibly with a microscope. I set it up on various microbiological media and attempted to isolate bacteria.
Robert Stack: Mike McDowell discovered that the sample was literally teaming with two species of bacteria, one of which make its home in the human digestive system"



Dont let your ego get in the way of facts marpat.You do yourself a disservice.




.

[boots]

You seem to have lots of information but tell me this. If theses trails are meant to be poisoning people as many claim then how are the rulers not at risk? do they not breath the same air as we do?


Depends on where these elite live. I dont know where they live specifically. Maybe they dont live in areas where a lot of spraying is done.

There seems to be a number of different chemtrails in existence.

1. Used by the military to enhance radar communications.

2. Cloud seeding to bring about higher rain falls.

3. Sulphur added to the jet fuel to combat So called Global Warming.

I have provided the links to these facts in previous posts on this thread.


.

[fekdemasons]

I was just playing along with your evasion. You said you wanted me to be in here now you tell me not to come in here. You getting confused?

I said I am undecided on the issue until I am satisfied with the information,


Undecided will do for now

[marpat]

Depends on where these elite live. I dont know where they live specifically. Maybe they dont live in areas where a lot of spraying is done.

There seems to be a number of different chemtrails in existence.

1. Used by the military to enhance radar communications.

2. Cloud seeding to bring about higher rain falls.

3. Sulphur added to the jet fuel to combat So called Global Warming.

I have provided the links to these facts in previous posts on this thread.


.

Radar and communications are not the same thing. Radar is a device that is used to track something by sending and receiving radio pulses. Communications may use similar radio frequencies but modulate the carrier waves to contain information.

[lw71]

Yeah right, hologram plane and all that. Dogshit.

Plenty for you to have a sniff at here then...

http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/4chapter4.html

http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/5chapter5.html

http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/6chapter6.html

http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/7chapter7.html

[boots]

Radar and communications are not the same thing. Radar is a device that is used to track something by sending and receiving radio pulses. Communications may use similar radio frequencies but modulate the carrier waves to contain information.

Feel better for saying that?

No need for semantics. Radar communicates data.

The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related industries, as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc. It is proposed that chronic contamination of the biosystem with the reactive types of Ba salts can initiate the pathogenesis of MS; due to the conjugation of Ba with free sulphate,.


US patent.
http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/-%202006_june-december/any2html.pdf

[yippie]

A few weeks ago, I looked up downtwon and saw chemtrails, the criss cross, then more so it turned out to be a tic tac toe symbol!

[marpat]

Feel better for saying that?

No need for semantics. Radar communicates data.



No, just thought I would point it out to save confusion. Is not really semantics. A radar is used for tracking objects and comms are used for comms.

Are you sure you dont mean radio comms data?

Where did you get that information about barium? can you explain why metallic particles in the air would benefit any radio system? how do those particles remain in the air rather than falling under gravity?

I work on radars at the moment and if you have loads of metal particles in the air I would think the effect would diminish the ability of the radar rather than enhancing its effect in any way.

[fuzzylogic]

I work on radars at the moment and if you have loads of metal particles in the air I would think the effect would diminish the ability of the radar rather than enhancing its effect in any way.
Seeing as that's how chaff works, I'd say you're spot on.

[fekdemasons]

No, just thought I would point it out to save confusion. Is not really semantics. A radar is used for tracking objects and comms are used for comms.

Are you sure you dont mean radio comms data?

Where did you get that information about barium? can you explain why metallic particles in the air would benefit any radio system? how do those particles remain in the air rather than falling under gravity?

I work on radars at the moment and if you have loads of metal particles in the air I would think the effect would diminish the ability of the radar rather than enhancing its effect in any way.

Parts per million ?

[mystic nomad]

Marpat, we've already established one possible way trails could be turned on and off, remember the Red Arrows?


It is well documented that the German government have given an excuse for aerosol activity over their country. The reason stated that it was their military releasing chaff to jam radar. Poor excuse IMO. Who's radar are they trying to jam? Lichtenstein? Luxembourg? Moldavia? Their own? Can we be sure that they are not reading off some long lost note that's been sat in someone's bottom draw since 1945?


Now can we define what size particle would be considered chaff? Millimetres or Microns? I would say the former.


If Jet fuel is similar to Diesel:rolleyes: which off course it isn't apart from the fact that they are both oil derived then to pass aluminium or barium nano particles of say 1/1000th of a micron through such a low tolerance engine surely wouldn't be a major issue :rolleyes:.


I don't see the problem people have with aluminium or Barium in the fuel delivery system, after all they've been adding Lead to fuel albeit for different reasons to those we are discussing but remember we are now well into the age of nano tech.


Now, I'm just a simple tree climber but as I understand it, when we get into the higher frequency radio waves these bounce around between different levels in the atmosphere, let's say between the ionosphere and troposphere, therefore to create reflective layers in such parts of the atmosphere would be highly beneficial to certain kinds of remote imaging and/or long range communications as well as HAARP (and the like) related wizardry.


Bio-electrification of both the atmosphere and the Earth are also well documented.


Higher instances of respiratory problems related to highly observed aerosol operations preceding are also well documented by medical professionals from around the world, as is Morgellons. Trouble is the main stream medical profession will not acknowledge it (well they wouldn't would they, it's probably not in any of their books and also no drugs to push on us at the moment!) rather they seem to be writing it off as "delusions of parasites".


I don't see people on this forum running around in panic claiming that every time a trail appears people start dropping like flies. It would certainly seem that this has been the case but we are in the UK, most research comes from USA and is probably some 10 years old by now.


In my own experience, I am pretty certain that if there has been heavy aerosol activity (of a particular type) through the night or early morning I can taste it. The best way I can describe the taste is something like raw egg white. There has only been a few times this year I have experienced this which is a lot less than I did last year and the year before that. In the run up to Christmas last year I had this taste every day for weeks (maybe the damp weather amplifies it?) and then I came down with an illness the like of which I have never experienced. I lost over a week of my life to delirium and honestly thought I was a dead man. I have no proof it was connected but I honestly feel that it did contribute.


If I was someone in the know then it really wouldn't be difficult to retire to my positively pressurised games room for the duration of the operation, on top of which because I was informed perhaps I would be on a constant metal de-tox and only eating produce from my own private Eden project stylee bio-dome. If I really did need to go outside for a piss or something then I would make sure I had some kind of immunization made in-house in my very own giant pharmaceutical company, coz I'm like that:D


Radar is used for tracking objects and comms is used for comms:confused:

Hmm, Silent Sentry or Celldar anyone??


ps. If anyone is worried about my spelling or grammar please don't waste your energy, I shall endeavour to correct all mistakes when I've finished my date with that dark, full bodied beauty I like to call Guinness.

Cheers:)

[marpat]

Yes we did mention the red arrows. Lets suppose that was the method being used. Who is doing it and what is the config of the aircraft? there must be some groundcrew somewhere wondering about these aircraft and the unusual loads and layout. There must be pilots who control the trails if that was the case. What would be the point of partially broken trails usig such methods? its not like you can contain something like that within exact areas and you certainly cant accurately target something on the ground with aerosols at that height. Broken trails would serve no purpose at all.

Lets not forget that just because such thing can be done it is not proof that they are being done on such as scale by unknown aircraft is it?

There are so many contradictions between chemtrail theories that it is not much help. Some people claim the fuel is mixed with chemicals and post articles by supposed whistleblowers and then you say that they could do it like the red arrows do.

I even see people posting stuff from rense.com that is pure crap such as where he tried to describe a refuelling pod as a chemtrail pod and where he cant understand why French aircrews are flying around the US in these aircraft.

When you relate your own exprience can you 100% claim that it was related to something coming from a trail? do you live near any industrial areas, etc?

[lightgiver]

hi peeps, i'm new here, just over from 'introductions',
i'd never heard of 'chemtrails' before finding this site. could someone please accurately explain what they are supposed to be?

my father was ex-SBS, then spent over 40 years in the aeronautics industry. i have a fair understanding of meterology, and am a member of the 'cloud appreciation society', so i should have a fair grasp of any answers.

as i said, it's not something i've come across before, and i'm keen to further my knowledge on this subject.
thanks.

http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies


When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything—you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.


You can put 10 tons of proof in front of people, but if they are not ready to accept an idea they will not accept the proof, no amount of evidence will suffice to prove anything. It is the jury who will decide - YOU are the jury! - William Cooper.:)

[chrysoprase]

Hi marpat,

You know that chemtrails exist. I am not quite sure if you don't believe they are harmful to health; or if you are playing devil's advocate because you don't think it is provable. (I am trying to figure you out;))

You mean the bit where they talk of producing a powder contrail? never said they couldn't. My doubts are about the degree that people say this goes on. The amount of times people say they see a chemtrail then claim to have all sort of health problems just makes me laugh.

But, I wonder what you think they are? I know you must have opinions on this. I think at the very least you have speculated about it.

Why post all that stuff when there are real questions to be answered. Who operates those aircraft and what is their cofiguration? why do the spray 'poison' to the air when the elite breath the same air?


Do you have any answers or thoughts on the above?

Do 'chemtrals' poison the elite? if not then how not?


I don't know. Do you???:confused:

In Nothern Arizona I saw chemtrails (I know they were not contrails) starting around 2003 (I think). The last one I saw was in May of 2008. Five planes flew directly over my house in unison. It appeared to be some type of exercise (and I am not near an air force base). These planes left a greasy, powdery looking substance that spread and almost connected with each other. The temperature was warm with blue skies. And, I do not know if this had anything to do with it - but for at least the next day the sky was paper-white, not a hint of blue, there were no clouds but the sun was blocked.

I can tell you that after seeing that I did not want to stay outdoors for too long. Do you think - even though there isn't proof.. that people like me, who sense something is wrong, should not listen to their gut? What if they do leave a poison? Unless you can tell me positively that they do not - would you discourage others from trying to protect themselves - even if it is a "just in case" scenario?? I would hope that you would not be that cruel!

In other words; if you do not know what it is, how could you say that people's concerns are laughable? This doesn't make sense to me:confused:

[marpat]

Hi marpat,

You know that chemtrails exist. I am not quite sure if you don't believe they are harmful to health; or if you are playing devil's advocate because you don't think it is provable. (I am trying to figure you out;))

But, I wonder what you think they are? I know you must have opinions on this. I think at the very least you have speculated about it.

In Nothern Arizona I saw chemtrails (I know they were not contrails) starting around 2003 (I think). The last one I saw was in May of 2008. Five planes flew directly over my house in unison. It appeared to be some type of exercise (and I am not near an air force base). These planes left a greasy, powdery looking substance that spread and almost connected with each other. The temperature was warm with blue skies. And, I do not know if this had anything to do with it - but for at least the next day the sky was paper-white, not a hint of blue, there were no clouds but the sun was blocked.

I can tell you that after seeing that I did not want to stay outdoors for too long. Do you think - even though there isn't proof.. that people like me, who sense something is wrong, should not listen to their gut? What if they do leave a poison? Unless you can tell me positively that they do not - would you discourage others from trying to protect themselves - even if it is a "just in case" scenario?? I would hope that you would not be that cruel!

In other words; if you do not know what it is, how could you say that people's concerns are laughable? This doesn't make sense to me:confused:

I did not say peoples concerns are laughable but I think too many people are willing to believe in many chetrails with nothing but a few photos and youtube vids. I dont call that evidence myself. If I thought that I was being poisoned by cmeical being sprayed into the air I would wear some form of respiratory protection, much as you see people doing in Asia to combat air pollution, yet how many people in the forum do that? they are happy to rant on about being poisoned yet they dont wear protection? also, how many people in here believe tht orgone chemtrail busters do disperse chemtrails but DONT use them? to me it sounds like people are happy to moan but lack the courage of their convictions.

Chemtrails can be made but this does not mean they are everywhere. I have been to met briefings where they inform you of the height at which normal contrails will appear and the height at which persistant contrails also appear.

I cant speak for things that have happened to you but did you get some samples of this grease? some aircraft like the blackbird leak fuel until they reach high speed so what you could have is a situation where fuel is leaked out of the aircraft. Unless you get some samples then you cant really know.

Look at this pic from WWII. persistant contrails, yet people act as if they have only been around in the past few years:

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/93marpat/3017739595_80bf05cfc4.jpg

[chrysoprase]

Oh, okay.

Thanks for answering me.

[fekdemasons]

I did not say peoples concerns are laughable but I think too many people are willing to believe in many chetrails with nothing but a few photos and youtube vids. I dont call that evidence myself. If I thought that I was being poisoned by cmeical being sprayed into the air I would wear some form of respiratory protection, much as you see people doing in Asia to combat air pollution, yet how many people in the forum do that? they are happy to rant on about being poisoned yet they dont wear protection? also, how many people in here believe tht orgone chemtrail busters do disperse chemtrails but DONT use them? to me it sounds like people are happy to moan but lack the courage of their convictions.

Chemtrails can be made but this does not mean they are everywhere. I have been to met briefings where they inform you of the height at which normal contrails will appear and the height at which persistant contrails also appear.

I cant speak for things that have happened to you but did you get some samples of this grease? some aircraft like the blackbird leak fuel until they reach high speed so what you could have is a situation where fuel is leaked out of the aircraft. Unless you get some samples then you cant really know.

Look at this pic from WWII. persistant contrails, yet people act as if they have only been around in the past few years:

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/93marpat/3017739595_80bf05cfc4.jpg

Well Done Marpat !

A constructive and thought provoking thread. I see you've been hunting around and researching to back up your case. This is encouraging.

I remember seeing B17s do this on footage before. However these contrails are only just been left behind , I rather suspect theuy dissipated within a minute at most.

What difference if any would there be in a Jet fuel contrail versus 4 x Prop
driven Bomber ? Just curious

[eternal wheel]

http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies


When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything—you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.


You can put 10 tons of proof in front of people, but if they are not ready to accept an idea they will not accept the proof, no amount of evidence will suffice to prove anything. It is the jury who will decide - YOU are the jury! - William Cooper.:)

what proof??
i came open minded but sceptical.
i got pics of vapour trails from people with no knowledge of meterology.
i was ridiculed for daring to question that 'chemtrail' spraying goes on in a daily, orchestrated, global manner.
i know weather modification has been going on for over 40 years.
but only on a small scale.


no one has shown ANY EVIDENCE for DAILY, GLOBAL, ORCHESTRATED spraying.

a few random links to 'he said, she said' sites are not proof.

2 days ago i was in london. i watched an airliner take off from heathrow. i watched as it turned and headed out gaining alititude. i watched as it layed a broken trail. then a solid one, at quite low altitude. parts of the solid bit dissapated quickly, other bits lingered and spread out.

was there a MIB in the cockpit pressing secret buttons, spraying the population of london with gawd knows what, from secret tanks hidden in the plane that only he knew about?? cant be hidden in the fuel coz it was intermittant,
maybe, just maybe, it was weather conditions......

[eternal wheel]

Who gives a fuck you should spend more time on facts than correcting my poor grammer.
But i will give you a A+ for being a total prick.:eek:

That's 'grammar', and i think you'll find it should be 'an A+', not 'a A+'.
A comma or question mark would be appropriate after 'fuck', too.
Of course, if the question mark is used, then the 'y' of 'you' would become a capital.

B-, could do better.

you're fun.:D:rolleyes:

[nosferatu_dj]

just some more evidence, information.....
not that it realy matters when it comes to PROOF: EVIDENCE: THE TRUTH:
seems to be when presented with the hard truth most dismiss it as bullshit coz it means they would have to change there entire belife in "the truth"

http://fto.co.za/news/airplanes-sprayed-mysterious-substance-ukraine-days-pneumonic-plague-outbreak-2009110615732

Airplanes sprayed mysterious substance over Ukraine days before pneumonic plague outbreak

Friday, November 6, 2009 - 15:22

Kiev, Ukraine - Authorities in the town of Kiev, Ukraine denied any spraying of "aerosolized medication" by aircraft over the city. This after it was reported that light aircrafts were seen flying over the forest market area that sprayed a aerosol substance to fight h1n1 or swine flu.
5 Sources confirms this and the local newspapers of Kiev also received hundreds of phone calls from residents and business owners close to the area the planes were spraying the suspicious substance. Not only that but local businesses and retailers were "advised" to stay indoors during the day by the local authorities.
As if that is not enough, the government authorities also pushed the radio stations in Kiev to deny the reports. Online on forums, websites and blogs reports came in about eye witness accounts that confirms this. There was also reports of helicopters spraying aerosols over Kiev, Lviv, Ternopil and throughout Ukraine.
30th October the Ukraine president Viktor Yushchenko ordered the army or Ministry of Defense to establish mobile hostpitals to provide “essential medications” for people infected with h1n1 (swine flu).
Then just recently the entire Ukraine was put under martial law, more shocking is the statement before the serious pneumonic plague broke out “Due to the complex epidemiological situation in the western regions of Ukraine, where tens of thousands of people have become ill, thousands are in hospital, and dozens have died.”

---------------------------------------

http://fto.co.za/news/trail-pneumonic-plague-ukraine-chemtrails-spray-fears-vaccine-2009110815746.html

Trail leading to Pneumonic plague in Ukraine involved "chemtrails" or mysterious spray, fears of vaccine


Sunday, November 8, 2009 - 09:48

http://fto.co.za/sites/default/files/imagecache/450/chemtrailsfrontsmoke.jpg








In 2002 the US military was acused of “conducting a chemical weapons research and development program in violation of international arms control law” Whereby they replied
“JNLWD's [US Department of Defense's Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate] secret program is not focusing on highly lethal agents such as VX or sarin. Rather, the emphasis is on "non-lethal" chemical weapons that incapacitate. JNLWD's science advisors define "non-lethal" as resulting in death or permanent injury in 1 in 100 victims.(1) JNLWD's Research Director told a US military magazine "We need something besides tear gas, like calmatives, anesthetic agents, that would put people to sleep or in a good mood." These weapons are intended for use against "potentially hostile civilians", in anti-terrorism operations, counterinsurgency, and other military operations.
The major focus of JNLWD's operation is on the use of drugs as weapons, particularly so-called "calmatives", a military term for mind-altering or sleep inducing chemical weapons.”
March 26 it was reported that Vaccine side effects scare grips Ukraine as thousands of Ukrainians refused the vaccinations being scared of diseases like diphtheria, mumps, polio, hepatitis B, tuberculosis, whooping cough among others.
Then the Health officials said that the fear of getting these vaccinations could lead to disease outbreaks spreading through out the Soviet republic and beyond. Health officials around the world then said they are struggling with the repercussions of the vaccination fears as they were unwarrented and dangerous
June 26 Suspicious aircrafts were forced to land. A US operated AN-124 changed its call sign from civillian to military which then triggered a response from the IAF upon entering Pakistani air space, the plane was forced to land in Mumbai while the second one was forced down by Nigerian figther jets that also arrested the crew.
According to reports China (China’s People's Liberation Army Air Force) contacted the Indian and Nigerian intelligence officials about the presence of these US operated Ukranian aircrafts amidst growing concern that the United States were spreading "biological agents" in the Earth's atmosphere also which some Chinese officals believed to be a attempt to mass genocide via the spread of h1n1 swine flu.
The strange thing about these reports and arrests as well as the forcing down of the planes were that these aircrafts were carrying "waste disposal" systems that could spray up to 45000kg or 100pounds of aerial type mist from sophisticated network of nano pipes that led throughout the trailing edges of the wings thereby dispersing whatever was in these tanks through a mist.
Airplane registration was UR-CAK
People usually call these chemtrails.
19 September A Chicago researcher dies working with Yersinia pestis (the plague) (which is now supposedly spreading through Ukraine)

A University of Chicago researcher died Sun., Sept. 13, at the Medical Center's Bernard Mitchell Hospital from an infection which may be attributable to a weakened laboratory strain of Yersinia pestis, the bacteria that causes the plague.
The researcher studied the genetics of harmful bacteria, including a weakened strain of Yersinia pestis that lacks the bacteria's harmful components. This strain is not known to cause illness in healthy adults and has been used in some countries as a live-attenuated vaccine to protect against plague. It has been approved by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) for routine laboratory studies. The weakened strain does not require the special safety precautions required for work with virulent strains.
Though there does not appear to be a threat to the public, and no other illness related to this case has been reported, the Medical Center infection control team is working with the Chicago Department of Public Health (CDPH), the Illinois Department of Public Health (IDPH) and the CDC to investigate the case and take all appropriate precautions.
“This death is a tragic loss to our community,” said James L. Madara, MD, Dean of the Biological Sciences Division and Pritzker School of Medicine, and CEO of the Medical Center. “We are all saddened to lose a valued colleague.”
The patient's initial autopsy showed no obvious cause of death except for the presence of bacteria. Routine cultures of the patient's blood grew the weakened strain of Y. pestis. Whether the attenuated strain caused the fatal illness in this researcher remains uncertain. Additional studies to assess the connection are underway.
Nevertheless, once the attenuated strain of Y. pestis was identified on Sept. 18, Medical Center officials immediately notified the CDPH. As a precautionary measure and in cooperation with the CDPH, Medical Center personnel began notification of family, friends, colleagues and health care personnel who may have had contact with the patient.
People exposed to Y. pestis typically develop symptoms within 2 to 10 days. None of the potential contacts has reported illness. The weakened strain is not believed to be dangerous to healthy individuals, but underlying health conditions could potentially increase susceptibility. Anyone who might have been exposed will be offered antibiotics as a precaution.
While rare in the United States, plague remains a significant problem in the developing world, where up to 3,000 cases are reported every year. U.S. cases still occur in parts of California, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico. The last known case of person-to-person transmission of plague in the United States occurred in 1924.

Then LAST WEEK Airplanes sprayed mysterious substance over Ukraine days before pneumonic plague outbreak (http://fto.co.za/news/airplanes-sprayed-mysterious-substance-ukraine-days-pneumonic-plague-outbreak-2009110615732)
Kiev, Ukraine - Authorities in the town of Kiev, Ukraine denied any spraying of "aerosolized medication" by aircraft over the city. This after it was reported that light aircrafts were seen flying over the forest market area that sprayed a aerosol substance to fight h1n1 or swine flu.
5 Sources confirms this and the local newspapers of Kiev also received hundreds of phone calls from residents and business owners close to the area the planes were spraying the suspicious substance. Not only that but local businesses and retailers were "advised" to stay indoors during the day by the local authorities.
As if that is not enough, the government authorities also pushed the radio stations in Kiev to deny the reports. Online on forums, websites and blogs reports came in about eye witness accounts that confirms this. There was also reports of helicopters spraying aerosols over Kiev, Lviv, Ternopil and throughout Ukraine.
30th October the Ukraine president Viktor Yushchenko ordered the army or Ministry of Defense to establish mobile hostpitals to provide “essential medications” for people infected with h1n1 (swine flu).
Then just recently the entire Ukraine was put under martial law, more shocking is the statement before the serious pneumonic plague broke out “Due to the complex epidemiological situation in the western regions of Ukraine, where tens of thousands of people have become ill, thousands are in hospital, and dozens have died.”
So what exactly is going on here? Coincidence or not?

[eternal wheel]

more random unsubstantiated rubbish.
why use that pic of the jumbo leaving a vapour trail?
just random internet cut n paste with no FACTS to back any of it up.
are you bored today??

[boots]

Where did you get that information about barium? can you explain why metallic particles in the air would benefit any radio system? how do those particles remain in the air rather than falling under gravity?

Conveniently missed post # 46 or thought after page 13 I and others would have forgotten.:rolleyes:

.

[marpat]

Conveniently missed post # 46 or thought after page 13 I and others would have forgotten.:rolleyes:

.

I overlooked it. Well it would seem clear that there is some degree of barium spraying going on as this is a government medical website. That site also states that the high levels of barium are from local mining as well so this could be the major factor.


Although this clearly states that such occurs over military jet paths and on missile ranges in the US this does not mean the same thing is occuring in other countries though does it. Not only that, it does not disprove the idea of persistant contrails either.

Found this link on using it for radars:

http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/appxhtml/BappendixparticulatesB.html

It has also been proposed to release large clouds of barium in
the magnetosphere so that photoionization will increase the cold
plasma density, thereby producing electron precipitation through
enhanced whistler-mode interaction.

However, in all of the above-mentioned approaches, the mechanisms
involved in triggering the change in the trapped particle
phenomena must be actually positioned within the affected zone,
e.g., the magnetosphere, before they can be actuated to effect
the desired change.

This link says it is HAARP patented

[lw71]

JNLWD's Research Director told a US military magazine "We need something besides tear gas:confused:, like calmatives:o, anesthetic agents:p, that would put people to sleep or in a good mood:D." These weapons are intended for use against "potentially hostile civilians:mad:", in anti-terrorism operations, counterinsurgency, and other military operations.;)[/I]
The major focus of JNLWD's operation is on the use of drugs as weapons:eek:, particularly so-called "calmatives", a military term for mind-altering:rolleyes: or sleep inducing:cool: chemical weapons.”

:)

[boots]

I overlooked it. Well it would seem clear that there is some degree of barium spraying going on as this is a government medical website. That site also states that the high levels of barium are from local mining as well so this could be the major factor.


Although this clearly states that such occurs over military jet paths and on missile ranges in the US this does not mean the same thing is occuring in other countries though does it. Not only that, it does not disprove the idea of persistant contrails either.

Found this link on using it for radars:

http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/appxhtml/BappendixparticulatesB.html

It has also been proposed to release large clouds of barium in
the magnetosphere so that photoionization will increase the cold
plasma density, thereby producing electron precipitation through
enhanced whistler-mode interaction.

However, in all of the above-mentioned approaches, the mechanisms
involved in triggering the change in the trapped particle
phenomena must be actually positioned within the affected zone,
e.g., the magnetosphere, before they can be actuated to effect
the desired change.

This link says it is HAARP patented


Interesting link marpat. Thanks.

Mmmmm, mining and spraying from military planes. Wouldn't all countries use this it to enhance their radar communications. Be stupid not too.

The present invention relates to method and apparatus for contrail generation and the like. An earlier known method in use for contrail generation involves oil smoke trails produced by injecting liquid oil directly into the hot jet exhaust of an aircraft target vehicle. The oil vaporizes and recondenses being the aircraft producing a brilliant white trail. Oil smoke trail production requires a minimum of equipment; and, the material is low in cost and readily available. However, oil smoke requires a heat source to vaporize the liquid oil and not all aircraft target vehicles, notably towed targets, have such a heat source. Also, at altitudes above about 25,000 feet oil smoke visibility degrades rapidly.


I wonder if the oily smoke degrades at 25.000 feet then water vapour caused by common airline passenger planes would disappear even quicker. Since it is not as heavy as oil?

The average plane flies at about 30,000 to 39,000 feet.

.

[marpat]

Interesting link marpat. Thanks.

Mmmmm, mining and spraying from military planes. Wouldn't all countries use this it to enhance their radar communications. Be stupid not too.

I wonder if the oily smoke degrades at 25.000 feet then water vapour caused by common airline passenger planes would disappear even quicker. Since it is not as heavy as oil?

The average plane flies at about 30,000 to 39,000 feet.

.

Wel that link stated that clouds of the stuff would be released into the magentosphere and was only of use while it was up there.

By the sounds of it the stuff is used to scatter radio waves for use with radar which is not a normal application of radar. Normal radars project a beam of energy in one direction then look for the reflections coming from objects. If you have anything in the way, including water paricles such as clouds, the effects are degraded so whatever form of radar scattering it is used for it is not normal. I guess it is more to do with the way HAARP can be used as a radar than anything else. In my line of work if such things were used on an everday basis to improve performance then we would know about it. As HAARP is not really as directional as a normal rotating radar perhaps such methods of signal scattering are used so that the widest possible area is covered.

Not sure what you are getting at with the oily smoke comment.

[nosferatu_dj]

here is yet more info for you to deny.....

military aircraft creating chemtrails
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99369

[kohwoz]

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6396/irroratorisubordialarilgy9.jpg




http://fto.co.za/sites/default/files/imagecache/450/chemtrailsfrontsmoke.jpg

[kryst]

Look at this pic from WWII. persistant contrails, yet people act as if they have only been around in the past few years:

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/93marpat/3017739595_80bf05cfc4.jpg

They're not even fucking jet engines!

How does that shit work?

The lingering contrails produced by a combustion engine?

[eternal wheel]

They're not even fucking jet engines!

How does that shit work?

The lingering contrails produced by a combustion engine?


DUH. what do you think comes out of the little stubby exhaust pipes?? fucking scotch mist??:rolleyes::rolleyes:
fuck me, the lack of understanding of the basic principles relating to this subject on here is fucking astounding.

[seercirra]

this guy is a shill plant.

he comes here, feigning to know nothing of chemtrails but trying to grant himself alot authority by talking about his father and his "cloud appreciation society".

you all get suckered into spewing out a load of -valid- info, which he can then try and discredit, your more likely to buy what he says because he has already successfully established a rappor with you and granting himself authority.

the guys a shill. <-thats a full stop

for the love of god eternal, stop acting like you know something.

jet fuel and engines both help to burn infinately cleaner than old combustion engines and the fuel that was used in them. why , eternal, do you have to go to war planes over 60 years old to prove "lasting" contrails pre 2001? arent there more recent examples you could use? .. well.. no, i guess there fucking isnt.. unless you can find me some? i sure as hell cant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE-A4rLyWW8

remind you of something?

theres a fucking reason the red arrows use an actual spray to spray lines in the sky, because natural contrails dont work, they never have and never will produce plumes of smoke which sit and layer the atmosphere for hours at a time.

[seercirra]

http://www.solarnavigator.net/aviation_and_space_travel/aviation_space_images/concorde_last_flight_red_arrows_escort.jpg
http://www.spain4uk.co.uk/images/wildlife/transport/concorde_with_red_arrows.jpg
http://www.shutterpoint.com/photos/P/20040330_155926_Red-Arrows-S-P_view.jpg


THIS LAST PICTURE IS PERFECT AS IT DISPLAYS A NATURAL CONTRAIL, ALONG SIDE WHAT EVERYONE KNOWS IS A FINE PARTICULATE (RED ARROWS SMOKE), AND LETS YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE
http://www.pixalo.com/gallery/data/505/Red-Arrows-2.jpg


compare with:

http://morris108.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/chemtrail2.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01116/chemtrails_1116768i.jpg
http://www.newfrontier.com/asheville/chemtrail.jpg

now, do these look more like CONTRAILS (as seen coming from the wings in the last red arrows pic), or CHEMTRAILS?? (as seen coming from the exhaust area of the last red arrows pic)


point fucking proven, thankyou very much, now GTFO you fucking dirty shill. im ashamed to share the same species name as you.

[eternal wheel]

pointless posting the same thing in different threads. do you think that makes it more believable??:rolleyes:

[eternal wheel]

this guy is a shill plant.

he comes here, feigning to know nothing of chemtrails but trying to grant himself alot authority by talking about his father and his "cloud appreciation society".

you all get suckered into spewing out a load of -valid- info, which he can then try and discredit, your more likely to buy what he says because he has already successfully established a rappor with you and granting himself authority.

the guys a shill. <-thats a full stop

for the love of god eternal, stop acting like you know something.

jet fuel and engines both help to burn infinately cleaner than old combustion engines and the fuel that was used in them. why , eternal, do you have to go to war planes over 60 years old to prove "lasting" contrails pre 2001? arent there more recent examples you could use? .. well.. no, i guess there fucking isnt.. unless you can find me some? i sure as hell cant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE-A4rLyWW8

remind you of something?

theres a fucking reason the red arrows use an actual spray to spray lines in the sky, because natural contrails dont work, they never have and never will produce plumes of smoke which sit and layer the atmosphere for hours at a time.

did you get out of bed the wrong side today??
your lack of understanding on this subject is astounding. breathtaking even.
your agressive manner is a very poor cover for a huge lack of knowledge.

[fekdemasons]

So your saying your understanding is infinately better then EW ?


Why start this thread ? Have you gone from ..... "please can I have some info ....not sure what these are about etc ""


to " Your lack of understanding is astounding "


Paidshill

[eternal wheel]

So your saying your understanding is infinately better then EW ?
Why start this thread ? Have you gone from ..... "please can I have some info ....not sure what these are about etc ""
to " Your lack of understanding is astounding "

pretty much.
is that a problem?
it's called learning.... (some from you!!).

[fekdemasons]

pretty much.
is that a problem?
it's called learning.... (some from you!!).

No , not a problem.

Are you still in the 90 percent of CTs are natural 10 % might be dubious ?

Because 10 % is still a worrying stat in itself ..

[eternal wheel]

No , not a problem.

Are you still in the 90 percent of CTs are natural 10 % might be dubious ?

Because 10 % is still a worrying stat in itself ..
yep, around that figure.
both the 10% and the 90% are worrying, the 90% of 'normal' trails aint exactly emmitting daisies and fairy dust up there, in fact i'd hazzard a guess that the 90% of normal trails are probably doing more damage to the atmosphere than the (alleged) 10% that everyone gets worked up about....

[seercirra]

eternal wheel,
why dont you grant us an example of your unending knowledge on the matter and logically refute my post.
come on, i want you to play your cards. tell me, to the best of your ability, how my above post is wrong.

cant? (or wont because you know itd leave you open to being trumped?)

GTFO.

[nosferatu_dj]

this is to you idiots..... you know who you are, this is just for you to TRY! to do you hardest to dispute as BS.

you think we are all mindless sheep following a "trend" of some kind.....
time to WAKE UP!

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100119

go on over to that thread and try as hard as you might to deny all that factual evidence.... let me make a early guess, YOU CAN"T!

[fekdemasons]

" "


Quiet damning evidence I'd say

[eternal wheel]

Quiet damning evidence I'd say

damning evidence of a warm, dry climate, not condusive to lingering trails.
remind me what sort of weather they have in iran?

[fekdemasons]

damning evidence of a warm, dry climate, not condusive to lingering trails.
remind me what sort of weather they have in iran?


Same as Arizona , which is peperred ....:cool:

So now we have an ambient temp for CTs ?

your move old son ;)

[eternal wheel]

Same as Arizona , which is peperred ....:cool:

So now we have an ambient temp for CTs ?

your move old son ;)
bishop takes pawn, i'll have a think on that and get back to you. ;)

[eternal wheel]

both on similar latitude, weather seems dryer in iran, and less humid, which could explain it. i'm guessing iran has a lot less flights, internal and external, than arizona, so there would be less trails anyway, even if the conditions were the same. where does iran get its aviation fuel from? does it buy it in from the west, or make it's own? are there any regs about what fuel has to be used by planes using uk international airports? if they make their own, maybe there are additives in western fuel??

[fuzzylogic]

" "


Quiet damning evidence I'd say
It would be, if true.

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/photo425299.htm

I believe that's the Persepolis in Shiraz.

Bloody tourists ruining all the fun *shakes fists*

[fekdemasons]

both on similar latitude, weather seems dryer in iran, and less humid, which could explain it. i'm guessing iran has a lot less flights, internal and external, than arizona, so there would be less trails anyway, even if the conditions were the same. where does iran get its aviation fuel from? does it buy it in from the west, or make it's own? are there any regs about what fuel has to be used by planes using uk international airports? if they make their own, maybe there are additives in western fuel??


:eek::eek:

Additives in the fuel ??

Check mate ;)

[fekdemasons]

It would be, if true.

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/photo425299.htm

I believe that's the Persepolis in Shiraz.

Bloody tourists ruining all the fun *shakes fists*

"Hi Azadeh,
An Intresting shot from Perspolice, it's good for starter, but something is not normal here, the colors and shade in sky it seems artifical working, it's normal that the photograghers use some art with photoshop but sometimes they have to be real, for example when this sky is not rich of cloudes naturaly we have no any shadow or darkness in background like it. tow red things in back will make deflection for viewers try to remove it.
anyway, pardon me for this critigue I just wanted to tell you my opinion to make improvement.
out of this subject I have to say " This is a great view from Takhte Jamshid"
thanks for it.

Waiting for your next nice photoes
Mohammad


Looks like mohhamed is saying " YOu've photoshopped this pic mate "


Nice one azadeh ! I mean Fuzzy ...

[eternal wheel]

both on similar latitude, weather seems dryer in iran, and less humid, which could explain it. i'm guessing iran has a lot less flights, internal and external, than arizona, so there would be less trails anyway, even if the conditions were the same. where does iran get its aviation fuel from? does it buy it in from the west, or make it's own? are there any regs about what fuel has to be used by planes using uk international airports? if they make their own, maybe there are additives in western fuel??


:eek::eek:

Additives in the fuel ??

Check mate ;)
thats what i said in the other thread, if civil planes are unknowingly using fuel with aditives in, does that constitute a chemtrail? how do we find out?
it's possible, but is it actually happening??

[fuzzylogic]

"Hi Azadeh,
An Intresting shot from Perspolice, it's good for starter, but something is not normal here, the colors and shade in sky it seems artifical working, it's normal that the photograghers use some art with photoshop but sometimes they have to be real, for example when this sky is not rich of cloudes naturaly we have no any shadow or darkness in background like it. tow red things in back will make deflection for viewers try to remove it.
anyway, pardon me for this critigue I just wanted to tell you my opinion to make improvement.
out of this subject I have to say " This is a great view from Takhte Jamshid"
thanks for it.

Waiting for your next nice photoes
Mohammad


Looks like mohhamed is saying " YOu've photoshopped this pic mate "


Nice one azadeh ! I mean Fuzzy ...
Here's a couple I photoshopped last year (as opposed to 3 and a half years ago, in preparation for the inevitable claim that trails don't stick in Iran).

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Middle_East/Iran/photo1157225.htm

http://www.trekearth.com/viewphotos.php?l=3&p=1152649

I changed my name from Azadeh Rahimito to reza nonahall by deed poll in 2008. No one took me seriously with a name like Azadeh.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[fekdemasons]

You crazy Iranians , allways bloody jokin innitt !!!

With a name like that you could join this Persian Boy band:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ2OeeBaMu8

[fuzzylogic]

I've never got on with Siamak. He seems a bit of a pervert. But even I admit that his photoshopping skills are second to none.

http://www.trekearth.com/viewphotos.php?l=3&p=1082133

Do I have to go back to my Cuban days (and even my North Korean days, boy they were harsh!!!) or am I allowed to call it bullshit yet?

[eternal wheel]

see, silly me, i just took fek at his word..... :rolleyes:
lesson learned.;)

[fuzzylogic]

see, silly me, i just took fek at his word..... :rolleyes:
lesson learned.;)
No worries. All in a days work for a shill :)

[fekdemasons]

I got shills ..their multiplyin !!

Cant you two just high five in the mess later

[nosferatu_dj]

this is to you idiots..... you know who you are, this is just for you to TRY! to do you hardest to dispute as BS.

you think we are all mindless sheep following a "trend" of some kind.....
time to WAKE UP!

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100119

go on over to that thread and try as hard as you might to deny all that factual evidence.... let me make a early guess, YOU CAN"T!

why is it when presented with FACTUAL EVIDENCE AND PROOF of chemtrails "geo-enginering" what ever you want to call it.
why is it that this is ignored and not even commented on?

why i ask.... i think the answer is plain as day. BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DENY SO MUCH FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

[fuzzylogic]

why is it when presented with FACTUAL EVIDENCE AND PROOF of chemtrails "geo-enginering" what ever you want to call it.
why is it that this is ignored and not even commented on?

why i ask.... i think the answer is plain as day. BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DENY SO MUCH FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
Apologies. I was too busy ignoring the trails that don't stick in Iran.

I'll see what I can ignore today.

Meanwhile, I see that everyone's busy not ignoring the fact that trails DO stick in Iran. It's nice of you to have not ignored it and taken it out of that thread.

Some of you lot need to realise you are no better than the sheeple you ridicule.

[nosferatu_dj]

Apologies. I was too busy ignoring the trails that don't stick in Iran.

I'll see what I can ignore today.

Meanwhile, I see that everyone's busy not ignoring the fact that trails DO stick in Iran. It's nice of you to have not ignored it and taken it out of that thread.

Some of you lot need to realise you are no better than the sheeple you ridicule.

i left that out as i do not have the same opinion, as you said "trails do stick in iran"... you are refering to this.
taken from there website's main page
IRAN HAS BLUE SKIES AND NO JET TRAILS

In Iran jet trails are non-existent except normal contrails that disappear behind the aircraft within seconds or maybe a minute or two. But what NASA refers to as LINGERING CONTRAILS, that spread out and become clouds....DO NOT EXIST OVER IRAN, NORTH KOREA, CUBA or any nation where airspace is restricted to friendly commercial air traffic. Here is a video documentary on IRAN (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2884232348733568709) and you will not see one trail nor find SAT images with trails over that nation. A government in the so-called FREE WORLD has the duty to not harm its citizens with classified dangerous experimentation and for that matter without the lawful consent. Such a government would be in breach of all Constitutional authority to rule. Is this not true?

this is one thing i do not agree with 100%.... only being that i have not come across any "Documented accounts" of chemtrailing or "GeoEngineering" whatever you want to call it, in these country's.

if you provide evidence of this then i will be happy to discuss it with you and i dont think just myself would be interested in it.

[fuzzylogic]

I've provided pictures of sticking trails in Iran. How much more evidence do you want?

[anthony1965]

Apologies. I was too busy ignoring the trails that don't stick in Iran.

I'll see what I can ignore today.

Meanwhile, I see that everyone's busy not ignoring the fact that trails DO stick in Iran. It's nice of you to have not ignored it and taken it out of that thread.

Some of you lot need to realise you are no better than the sheeple you ridicule.

Hello Fuzzy.

I'm not of the opinion that trails don't stick in Iran.

I haven't been there so I can't comment on how the sky looks like in the various regions and at different times.

I've posted my opinion a number of times that the aerosol plumes (not condensation trails) stick more or less depending mainly on the sulphur content of the fuel, the engine design and very importantly the ionization of the air due to EMF. The ionization speeds the growth of the aerosol particles.

All of these observations fit in with the official documents that have been posted in the past (which I can dig out again if you like).

It is not just a case of condensation trails versus chemtrails.

Every aircraft exhaust includes aerosol particles. Whether or not these aerosol particles build aerosol plumes depends on factors such as ionization. The massive increase of EMF in the past years has increased the ionization of the skies.

Iran is no backwater. They will have their own antennas / radar etc.

Therefore it would surprise me if we didn't see aerosol plumes over there.

Whether or not they are being chemtrailed?

See my thread on aerosols.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95627

And my post to eternal wheel from yesterday:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058568290#post1058568290

so if civil aviation is unknowingly using 'modified' fuel, do you consider that a chemtrail? if someone can prove modified fuel being used as 'normal' fuel, that'd throw a whole new light on the whole thing.....

I've stated previously that I see pretty much a three tier program, which was indicated in one of the official reports I posted a few times.

Commercial aircraft, where the sulphur content of the jet fuel could easily be increased without breaking the limits, plue engine modification to ensure that the desired aerosol plumes are created.

Military aircraft, such as the BBC example over the north sea where the fuel could very easily be modified as and when required. Of course the military too observe limits in theory, but the official record shows that there have been many, many occasions when the British and American military (and others of course) have sprayed all kinds of shit when it was called for.

Dedicated aircraft as mentioned in the doucment I posted. This was a critical comment and these are the aircraft that I would describe as chemtrail planes. You've said that you haven't seen them in action, but I have and so have many others who have been observing the skies for the past few years. Very, very bizarre flying patterns, often involving two or more aircraft flying in a way that could definitely not be civil aircarft and simply in far too large numbers to be military aircraft. There actually aren't that many military aircraft, in the RAF for example.

Dedicated aircraft could be anything from old tankers, retired commercial aircraft, drones (yes drones!) and black ops stuff, some of which I'm sure we're going to see unveiled in the coming years.

But added to the mix is the positive ionization caused by the ground, sea and space based antenna systems. Electromagnetic energy that ionizes the sky causing plasma clouds and speeding up the growth of the aerosol particles. The dedicated, black ops (and maybe some military aircraft) could also have ionizing technology on board.

You asked whether I consider commercial aircraft to be chemtrailers? I said that I reserve the term chemtrailers to the dedicated aircraft and that I prefer the term aerosol plume for the trails left by commercial aircraft, but chemtrail in my opinion fits aerosol plume far better than condensation trail or vapour trail. Sulphur is a chemical after all.

And here we come to a debunking of the debunkers.

One of the arguments of the debunkers is that "contrails" have been sticking for a long time, and they come out with pictures of WW2 skies to prove their point. They then choose to ignore all evidence of documents describing the use of aircraft exhausts for geoengineering purposes. They also ignore the fact that depending on the fuel mix of the WW2 aircraft then aerosol plumes might have been produced.

But additionally, they also choose to ignore that elctromagnetic energy is not new. It is only the scope of the antenna system that has increased so dramatically, especially with the mobile phone network., which I would describe as being a "plausibly deniable technology", just as the cheap flight boom which led to an increase in flights and air routes.

I've just finished reading another of Jospeh Farrell's books: The Secret of the Unified Field" in which it is very lcear that both sides had all kinds of technology producing electromagnetic energy in the sky; much more so than in peacetime, added to which, there were unbelievable numbers of aircraft in the sky, plus all kinds of shit from AA flak burst to chaff, to exploding aircraft.

My point is that aerosol plumes are nothing new, but aerosol plumes are not condensation / vapour trails. The recent chemtrailing of our skies is on a scale not seen in the 70's and 80's when some of us were growing up. The amount of electrosmog has also increased massively.

To argue that aerosol plumes / contrails are nothing new and therefore chemtrails don't exist is just as flawed as the silly argument that earthquakes have always existed and therefore all earthquakes are natural. Overlooking of course the technological leaps of the past century.

I don't think there is anything new in all this, so here is a picture of a HAARP Buoy:

http://ahrcanum.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/haarp-buoy.jpg

In a little known study outside the scientific world: HAARP One- Hop Experiment The South Pacific Buoy, deployed April 2004.

The program will study radio waves generated by the HAARP transmitter in Alaska. We expect some waves to be ducted along the earth’s magnetic field lines – propagating out beyond five times the earth’s radius and returning to earth at a remote location in the South Pacific Ocean…. {the South Pacific is a hot bed of Seismic Activity} These waves will propagate through several important physical layers beyond the earth’s atmosphere. By operating a receiver at the magnetic conjugate point where the waves are most likely to return to earth, we will develop significant scientific understanding of those layers and the processes that affect them.http://www-star.stanford.edu/~vlf/buoy/

With props to http://blacklistednews.com/?news_id=5975, An experiment that fires powerful radio waves into the sky has created a patch of ‘artificial ionosphere’, mimicking the uppermost portion of Earth’s atmosphere. It has spent nearly two decades using radio waves to probe Earth’s magnetic field and ionosphere. HAARP’s high-frequency radio waves can accelerate electrons in the atmosphere, increasing the energy of their collisions and creating a glow.

February 2008, HAARP induced a strange bulls eye pattern in the night sky. Instead of the expected fuzzy, doughnut-shaped blob, surprising irregular luminescent bands radiated out from the centre of the bulls eye, according to Todd Pedersen, a research physicist at the US Air Force Research Laboratory in Massachusetts, who leads the team that ran the experiment at HAARP. The team modelled how the energy sent skywards from the HAARP antenna array would trigger these odd shapes. They determined that the areas of the bullseye with strange light patterns were in regions of denser, partially ionized gas in the atmosphere, as measured by ground-based high-frequency radar used to track the ionosphere.

“The novelty is not seeing the aurora – it’s the fact that we can actually create enough high-energy electrons to form plasma,” said Mike Kosch, chair of Experimental Space Science at Lancaster University, UK. “It shows something completely different and new that we hadn’t expected. We didn’t know we could do that from a radio array on the ground,” he added.Original source by http://www.britainnews.net/story/550358


This is a lie of staggering proportions!

The scientists didn't know what the researchers have been saying for years?

And what Bernard Eastlund's patents said they could do.

Fecking liars! :mad:

[fuzzylogic]

Hello Fuzzy.

I'm not of the opinion that trails don't stick in Iran.

I haven't been there so I can't comment on how the sky looks like in the various regions and at different times.

Fecking liars! :mad:
Yeah, liars are pretty annoying.

Why do you think that these people are lying about the trails in Iran?

[nosferatu_dj]

I've provided pictures of sticking trails in Iran. How much more evidence do you want?

where..... and i am talking about DOCUMENTED accounts.... not just some pictures.

i have provided plenty of this in the past and if you would like i could list the threads that contains what i am talking about but here is just one for example Global, Earth Dimming. NASA's Final Solution
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1249747

what the heck why not anuther thread
government's admit Chemtrail Operations
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70772

this was in my first post on this thread... but it seems people like YOU! like to ignore these facts.....

[fuzzylogic]

where.....
Not many posts before this one.

[nosferatu_dj]

Not many posts before this one.

what has that got to do with anything?

so now you resort to trying to play games..... how childish.

[anthony1965]

Yeah, liars are pretty annoying.

Why do you think that these people are lying about the trails in Iran?

Any other comments to what I posted?

There is a difference between knowing something to be untrue and still telling the lie.

And believing something to be true and claiming that it is, although the truth may be different. In which case I would expect someone to change their opinion over time.

Do you see the difference?

[fuzzylogic]

what has that got to do with anything?

so now you resort to trying to play games..... how childish.
So it's of your opinion that pictures of "chemtrails" in Iran has no bearing on the claim that "But what NASA refers to as LINGERING CONTRAILS, that spread out and become clouds....DO NOT EXIST OVER IRAN,"?

Oooooooooooooookay.

[anthony1965]

So it's of your opinion that pictures of "chemtrails" in Iran has no bearing on the claim that "But what NASA refers to as LINGERING CONTRAILS, that spread out and become clouds....DO NOT EXIST OVER IRAN,"?

Oooooooooooooookay.

Are they condensation trails or aerosol plumes?

[fuzzylogic]

Are they condensation trails or aerosol plumes?
I don't care what they are. They are what NASA claims to be persistent contrails (no such thing as lingering contrails) and they exist in Iran. That's it! That's all I'm trying to get across here.

Just people seem to be struggling to accept that simple concept.

[anthony1965]

I don't care what they are. They are what NASA claims to be persistent contrails (no such thing as lingering contrails) and they exist in Iran. That's it! That's all I'm trying to get across here.

Just people seem to be struggling to accept that simple concept.

You don't care what they are? :confused:

[fuzzylogic]

You don't care what they are? :confused:
Not in this instance, no.

Are you telling me they don't look like what are refered to as chemtrails?

[nosferatu_dj]

i left that out as i do not have the same opinion, as you said "trails do stick in iran"... you are refering to this.
taken from there website's main page


this is one thing i do not agree with 100%.... only being that i have not come across any "Documented accounts" of chemtrailing or "GeoEngineering" whatever you want to call it, in these country's.

if you provide evidence of this then i will be happy to discuss it with you and i dont think just myself would be interested in it.


as i already have said and you ignored this and just started this childish game just like eternal wheel has been doing... looks like you joined at around same time as eternal wheel and also have about the same amount of post count.... i wonder if we should discuss this insted.

no...... lets get back onto subject then shell we?

[anthony1965]

Not in this instance, no.

Are you telling me they don't look like what are refered to as chemtrails?

Yes, they look like what are referred to as chemtrails.

But as you would know if you cared to read my posts, I have described in some detail the formation of aerosol plumes which I believe is a synonym of chemtrails and is much more apt than condensation trails or vapour trails.

Again, if you read my posts and the thread I created, you will see that I address a number of issues that the official definition of contrails neglect to mention.

I've backed up my observations with numerous links to scientific papers, patents, official documents.

It's all there if you care to read it.

[fuzzylogic]

as i already have said and you ignored this and just started this childish game just like eternal wheel has been doing... looks like you joined at around same time as eternal wheel and also have about the same amount of post count.... i wonder if we should discuss this insted.

no...... lets get back onto subject then shell we?
If you don't agree with it then why post it?

I'm not playing a game, I'm just trying to disprove a claim posted on this website.

Wow, your paranoid mind thinks that I'm eternal wheel. That's a new one. Do you not think if we were the same person that the mods would've stepped in by now. Or maybe they're in on it as well. How far can paranoia go? How far do you want to take it?

[anthony1965]

If you don't agree with it then why post it?

I'm not playing a game, I'm just trying to disprove a claim posted on this website.

Wow, your paranoid mind thinks that I'm eternal wheel. That's a new one. Do you not think if we were the same person that the mods would've stepped in by now. Or maybe they're in on it as well. How far can paranoia go? How far do you want to take it?

I don't think you're eternal wheel! :)

Eternal is a pain sometimes but he also has his constructive moments.

So there's a big difference already. ;)

[nosferatu_dj]

If you don't agree with it then why post it?

I'm not playing a game, I'm just trying to disprove a claim posted on this website.

Wow, your paranoid mind thinks that I'm eternal wheel. That's a new one. Do you not think if we were the same person that the mods would've stepped in by now. Or maybe they're in on it as well. How far can paranoia go? How far do you want to take it?

it was sarcasm, not paranoia...

now can we get back onto the subject at hand on this thread?

or are you going to continue playing games?

why do people post anything?... becouse they want to and for CONSTRUCTIVE! conversations, even criticism is welcom when it is not just petty games where people pick on one thing and dismiss everything else.

[fuzzylogic]

now can we get back onto the subject at hand on this thread?
Happily.

Trails stick in Iran. Any claim they do not is false.

Carry on.

[fuzzylogic]

Here's a photo from Cuba that I photoshopped...

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Central_America/Cuba/photo1163120.htm

[anthony1965]

Here's a photo from Cuba that I photoshopped...

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Central_America/Cuba/photo1163120.htm

So you won't be commenting on any of the information I provided?

Anyone else?

It seems that fuzzy has locked himself in his room and won't come out to play... :)

[fuzzylogic]

So you won't be commenting on any of the information I provided?
One step at a time. We need to get to the bottom of trails in Iran, Cuba and North Korea first.

Let's not try and confuse the issues at hand.

[anthony1965]

One step at a time. We need to get to the bottom of trails in Iran, Cuba and North Korea first.

Let's not try and confuse the issues at hand.

But I told you that I accept that there could be trails in all of these places, although because I haven't observed the skies there I can't compare them to what I see here.

We are individuals fuzzy!

Take your time and read my stuff! It's good!

And there is more to come.

[fuzzylogic]

But I told you that I accept that there could be trails in all of these places, although because I haven't observed the skies there I can't compare them to what I see here.
Sounds like you're on my side on this issue then. So why you fighting me?

We're all trying to get to the truth :)

[anthony1965]

Sounds like you're on my side on this issue then. So why you fighting me?

We're all trying to get to the truth :)

As the cliché goes, "I'm not on anybody's side".

Yes, I am trying to get to the truth about what is going on.

I haven't seen any sign that your opinion goes beyond the standard chemtrail debunking and official / NASA / military line.

I'm open for constructive dialogue at any time. If you debate constructively with me then you can be assured that I will respond in kind.

I've had a few little altercations with eternal as well, but he has his constructive moments and I just wish there were more of them.

I don't simply accept the chemtrail theories put out by all of the alternative sites. I know that we can offer more than just shouting "Chemtrails are real".

I will continue to provide information that I feel is relevant. Facts where I can find them. Speculation where I feel is appropriate.

At the end of the day we are all going to face the effects of the toxic environment we are living in.

[fuzzylogic]

I haven't seen any sign that your opinion goes beyond the standard chemtrail debunking and official / NASA / military line.
So what? Not relevant here.

Whether you want to say the issue is "chemtrails don't exist in Iran/Cuba" or "persistent contrails don't exist in Iran/Cuba" the result is the same.

They do exist in Iran/Cuba.

So it would be nice if people didn't try and spread that lie. And regardless of the side you're on (and even if you are not on a side) it would be nice to see both sides (and no sides) could come together to at least weed out the false claims.

But no, gloss over it and move onto the next piece and make sure you don't offend anyone who's on your side (or is on the side that you are fighting for despite not being on a side).

[anthony1965]

So what? Not relevant here.

Whether you want to say the issue is "chemtrails don't exist in Iran/Cuba" or "persistent contrails don't exist in Iran/Cuba" the result is the same.

They do exist in Iran/Cuba.

So it would be nice if people didn't try and spread that lie. And regardless of the side you're on (and even if you are not on a side) it would be nice to see both sides (and no sides) could come together to at least weed out the false claims.

But no, gloss over it and move onto the next piece and make sure you don't offend anyone who's on your side (or is on the side that you are fighting for despite not being on a side).

:confused:

Fuzzy Logic.

[fuzzylogic]

:confused:

Fuzzy Logic.
What don't you understand?

I'm not in any way trying to say that chemtrails don't exist because you can see them in Iran. I'm not looking for what you'd call a strawman.

I'm just trying to prove that they do stick in Iran, and a claim that they don't is thus false.

Therefore, to try and use the claim that chemtrails exist because they don't stick in Iran is not true, which is what I believe the piece of that website is trying to say, because on seeing it fekdemason's claimed that it was "quiet (sic) damning evidence".

[anthony1965]

What don't you understand?

I'm not in any way trying to say that chemtrails don't exist because you can see them in Iran. I'm not looking for what you'd call a strawman.

I'm just trying to prove that they do stick in Iran, and a claim that they don't is thus false.

Therefore, to try and use the claim that chemtrails exist because they don't stick in Iran is not true, which is what I believe the piece of that website is trying to say, because on seeing it fekdemason's claimed that it was "quiet (sic) damning evidence".

What don't I understand?

This...

So it would be nice if people didn't try and spread that lie. And regardless of the side you're on (and even if you are not on a side) it would be nice to see both sides (and no sides) could come together to at least weed out the false claims.

But no, gloss over it and move onto the next piece and make sure you don't offend anyone who's on your side (or is on the side that you are fighting for despite not being on a side).

I didn't gloss over anything. I made my position quite clear.

I said that I didn't accept to the idea that "contrails" don't stick in Iran, or anywhere else. I simply can't judge the scale of what is going on over there.

It would depend a lot on the level of EM pollution and whether or not there are "dedicated" chemtrailing operations taking place.

[fuzzylogic]

So it would be nice if people didn't try and spread that lie. And regardless of the side you're on (and even if you are not on a side) it would be nice to see both sides (and no sides) could come together to at least weed out the false claims.

But no, gloss over it and move onto the next piece and make sure you don't offend anyone who's on your side (or is on the side that you are fighting for despite not being on a side).
Oh right.

That's reference to that fact that if someone who believes in chemtrails posts something that is obviously false then no one else who believes in chemtrails pulls them up on it. "Who cares if it's false. It's fighting our cause. Let anyone believe it if it leads them to believe the same things we do" is how it comes across. To me, at least.

It's rather annoying.

And if someone does pull them up on it, rather than agreeing with them that it's false it's "DISPROVE THIS THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Haha, you can't. CHEMTRAILS ARE REAL THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[anthony1965]

Oh right.

That's reference to that fact that if someone who believes in chemtrails posts something that is obviously false then no one else who believes in chemtrails pulls them up on it. "Who cares if it's false. It's fighting our cause. Let anyone believe it if it leads them to believe the same things we do" is how it comes across. To me, at least.

It's rather annoying.

And if someone does pull them up on it, rather than agreeing with them that it's false it's "DISPROVE THIS THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Haha, you can't. CHEMTRAILS ARE REAL THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

But I didn't fuzzy.

Chemtrails are real enough and don't need any exaggerrated claims to back them up.

It could be that there are much less trails sticking in some parts of the world for reasons I've given, but as I'm not there I can't judge.

Here's a song just for you Fuzzy!

Blue Skies by Betty Hutton.

I bet that takes you back a bit! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aglqFRvEdPw

[fuzzylogic]

But I didn't fuzzy.
Yes you did. It's back there. You keep badgering me for comments on your other information provided. It's all there in black and white (unless you go and edit it all out).

[anthony1965]

Yes you did. It's back there. You keep badgering me for comments on your other information provided. It's all there in black and white (unless you go and edit it all out).

:confused:

here is the post where I entered the thread.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058569730&postcount=162

I made it quite clear about my position on the Iranian question.

And I posted other information which I asked you to comment on.

[fuzzylogic]

Agree to disagree. I'm only posting from my point of view. I wouldn't expect your point of view to be the same.

I feel we're digressing. Let me get back to my Iran victory...

http://shazhell.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/arsavin-strange-celebration.gif

[anthony1965]

Here's your trophy fuzzy:

The "Fuzzy wins an argument 2010" trophy.

http://www.beecroftfamily.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/p-1230-953-2868435f-4a14-4bfd-8d10-d36aa732667c.jpeg

I'm sure there's plenty of space in your trophy cabinet! ;)

Digressing?

It's not your thread.

[fuzzylogic]

Digressing?

It's not your thread.
I only meant we were bickering about something unrelated to chemtrails.

It's not yours either.

[eternal wheel]

Eternal is a pain sometimes but he also has his constructive moments.

err, thanks, i think... :)

[eternal wheel]

i think somewhere back in the far mists of time, it was my thread, but don't let that stop you!! :D

[fekdemasons]

We'll take your word for it EW