Kabba & The Black Stone

[archangel]

The Kabba
Who built it?
what does it signify?
Why exactly do people pray to it?
Any rhryme or reason for that particular shape? dimensions? location?

The Black Stone
Why is it so special to Muslims?
Why exactly is it a holy relic?
What is the history of the stone according to Muslims?

I have read about these things online but I'm not finding any really good information which tells me why these things are the center of the Muslim faith.

[archangel]

bump

[tinmenace]

Maybe Positive Terror can answer...:confused:

[positive terror]

Maybe Positive Terror can answer...:confused:

Yes Im here , please

A brief history of al-Masjid al-Haraam in Makkah

Al-Masjid al-Haraam (the Sacred Mosque) is situated in Makkah, a city in the Arabian Peninsula 330 meters above sea-level. The history of the mosque goes back to its founding at the time of Ibraaheem (Abraham) and his son Ismaa’eel (Ishmael), peace be upon them both. Makkah is the place where the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was born and where the Revelation began, and from which the light of Islam spread. Al-Masjid al-Haraam is located here. This is the first mosque that was built for people on earth, as Allaah says in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for al-‘aalameen (mankind and jinns).” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:96].

It was reported in Saheeh Muslim that Abu Dharr said: “I asked the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about the first mosque to be built for people on earth. He said, ‘Al-Masjid al-Haraam.’ I asked, ‘Then which?’ He said, ‘Al-Masjid al-Aqsaa [The Furthest Mosque, in Jerusalem].’ I asked, ‘How long between them?’ He said, ‘Forty years.’”

The Ka’bah – which is the direction of prayer for all Muslims throughout the world – is situated roughly in the middle of al-Masjid al-Haraam. It is a 15-meter high stone structure more or less in the shape of a cube. It was built by Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) on the command of Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when We showed Ibraaheem the site of the (Sacred) House (the Ka’bah at Makkah) (saying): ‘Associate not anything (in worship) with Me, and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it, and those who bow and make prostration.” [al-Hajj 22:26]

The word “bawwa’naa” [translated here as “We showed”] means “He guided him and gave him permission to build it.” (Tafseer Ibn Katheer).

Allaah also says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when Ibraaheem and (his son) Ismaa’eel were raising the foundations of the House (the Ka’bah at Makkah)…” [al-Baqarah 2:127]

Wahb ibn Munbih said: “… It was built by Ibraaheem, then [rebuilt] by the Amalekites, then by Jurham, then by Qusayy ibn Kilaab. Its rebuilding by Quraysh is well known… They began to rebuild it with the stones of the valley, which Quraysh carried on their shoulders, and they built it up, 20 cubits high… Between the rebuilding of the Ka’bah and the beginning of the Revelation there were five years, and between the rebuilding and the Hijrah there were fifteen years. ‘Abd al-Razzaaq reported from Mu’ammar from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Uthmaan from Abu’l-Tufayl, and from Mu’ammar from al-Zuhri: ‘They were building it and when they reached al-Rukn, Quraysh argued about which tribe should lift it up. Then they said, “Let us ask the first person who comes from this direction to judge between us.” They agreed on that, then the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to them, and he was a young man wearing a spotted sash. They asked him to judge between them, and he told them to place al-Rukn on a piece of cloth, then he told the chief of every tribe to hold the edge of the cloth, then he climbed up and they lifted al-Rukn up to him, and he himself (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) put it into its place.” (Taareekh Makkah by al-Azraqi, 1/161-164)

Muslim (2374) reported that ‘Aa’ishah said: “I asked the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about al-Jadr [the wall] and whether it was part of the House [the Ka’bah]. He said, ‘Yes.’ I asked, ‘So why is it not incorporated into the House?’ He said, ‘Your people ran out of money.’ I asked, ‘What about the door? Why is it high up?’ He said, ‘Your people did that so they could let in whomever they wanted and keep out whomever they wanted. If it were not for the fact that your people are still new [in Islam] and too close to their Jaahiliyyah, and I am afraid that they would resent it, I would think of incorporating al-Jadr into the House and bringing the door down to ground level.’”

Before Islam (in the year in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was born), the Ka’bah was subjected to an attack by the Ethiopian Abrahah, who had built al-Qulays, a church to which he wanted the Arabs to make their pilgrimage. He set out with his army, with whom was the elephant, and when they reached Makkah, Allaah sent flocks of birds against them; each bird was carrying three stones like chickpeas or lentils, one in its beak and two in its claws. Every man who was struck by a stone was killed, so the army was destroyed, by the command of Allaah.

Allaah has mentioned this incident in His Book, where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Have you not seen how your Lord dealt with the Owners of the Elephant? Did He not make their plot go astray?

And sent against them birds, in flocks,

Striking them with stones of Sijjeel,

And made them like an empty field of slaks (in which the corn has been eaten up by cattle).” [al-Feel 105:1-5]

(See al-Seerah al-Nabawiyyah by Ibn Hishaam, 1/44-58).

There was no fence or wall around the Ka’bah until it became necessary. Yaaqoot al-Hamawi said in Mu’jam al-Buldaan (5/146): “The first one to build a wall around the Ka’bah was ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him); there was no wall around it during the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or Abu Bakr. [The wall was built] because people were building their houses too close to the Ka’bah and making the space around it too small for people. ‘Umar said: ‘The Ka’bah is the House of Allaah, and a house needs a courtyard. You have encroached on its space, it has not encroached on yours.’ So he bought those houses, demolished them and added that space to the space around the Ka’bah. He also destroyed the houses of people in the vicinity of the Ka’bah who had refused to sell, and kept the money aside for them until they came and took it later on. He built a wall around the mosque, lower than the height of a man, and lamps were placed on it. When ‘Uthmaan was khaleefah, he bought more houses that were more expensive… It was said that ‘Uthmaan was the first one to build porticos around it … When Ibn al-Zubayr was in power, he improved its appearance, although he did not increase its size, by adding marble pillars, extra doors and other improvements. When ‘Abd al-Malik ibn Marwaan was khaleefah, he added to the wall of the mosque, and brought columns from Egypt by sea to Jeddah, which were carried from Jeddah to Makkah on wheels. Al-Hajjaaj ibn Yoosuf commanded that the Ka’bah should be covered in drapes (al-kiswah) and when al-Waleed ibn ‘Abd al-Malik was khaleefah, he added to the adornment of the kiswah and spent money on improvements to the drainage spout and roof… When al-Mansoor and his son al-Mahdi were khaleefahs, they added more adornments to the mosque and improved its appearance.”

There are also other religious monuments in the Mosque, such as Maqaam Ibraaheem (the Station of Ibraaheem), which is the rock on which Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) stood whilst he was building the Ka’bah. There is also the Well of Zamzam, which is a spring of water brought forth by Allaah for Haajar and her child Ismaa’eel (peace be upon him) when he got thirsty. We should not forget either the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamaani, which are two of the precious stones of Paradise. Al-Tirmidhi and Ahmad reported that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saying that the Rukn and the Maqaam are two of the precious stones of Paradise, whose light has been extinguished by Allaah. If He had not extinguished their light, it would illuminate everything between the East and the West.” (Sunan al-Tirmidhi, 804).

Near the Mosque are the two hills of al-Safa and al-Marwah. One of the unique features of the Mosque is that it is the only mosque in the world to which people come on pilgrimage (Hajj). Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily! Al-Safa and al-Marwah are of the Symbols of Allaah. So it is not a sin on him who performs Hajj or ‘Umrah (pilgrimage) of the House to perform the going (tawaaf) between them. And whoever does good voluntarily, then verily, Allaah is All-Recognizer, All-Knower.” [al-Baqarah 2:158]

Another of its unique features is that Allaah has made it safe, and one prayer in it is equal to a hundred thousand prayers elsewhere. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when We made the House a place of resort for mankind and a place of safety. And take you (people) the Maqaam (place) of Ibraaheem as a place of prayer, and We commanded Ibraaheem and Ismaa’eel that they should purify My House for those who are circumabulating it, or staying (I’tikaaf), or bowing or prostrating themselves.” [al-Baqarah 2:125]

“In it are manifest signs (for example); the maqaam (place) of Ibraaheem; whoever enters it, he attains security. And Hajj to the House is a duty that mankind owes to Allaah, those who can afford the expenses (for one’s conveyance, provision and residence); and whoever disbelieves [i.e., denies Hajj, then he is a disbeliever of Allaah], then Allaah stands not in need of any of the ‘aalameen (mankind and jinns).” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:97]

(See Akhbaar Makkah by al-Azraqi and Akhbaar Makkah by al-Faakihi).

And Allaah is the Source of Strength and the Guide to the Straight Path.

[positive terror]

The Black Stone


Praise be to Allaah.

There are a number of ahaadeeth etc. about the Black Stone which we will quote for our brother so that he may learn from them.

1. The Black Stone was sent down by Allaah to this earth from Paradise.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi).

2. The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462).



(a) Al-Mubaarakfoori said in al-Marqaah: This means, the sins of the sons of Adam who touched the stone, caused it to turn black. The hadeeth should be taken at face value, because there is no reason not to, either narrated in a report or by virtue of common sense.

(Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi, 3/525)

(b) Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said: Some heretics tried to criticize this hadeeth by saying: How come the sins of the mushrikeen turned it black and the worship of the people of Tawheed did not make it white?

I answer by quoting what Ibn Qutaybah said: If Allaah had willed, that would have happened. But Allaah has caused it to be the case that black usually changes other colours and its not itself changed, which is the opposite to what happens with white.

(c) Al-Muhibb al-Tabari said: The fact that it is black is a lesson for those who have insight. If sins can have this effect on an inanimate rock, then the effect they have on the heart is greater.

See Fath al-Baari, 3/463

3. The Black Stone will come forth on the Day of Resurrection and will testify in favour of those who touched it in truth.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said concerning the Stone: “By Allaah, Allaah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944

This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi, and as qawiy by al-Haafiz ibn Hajar in Fath al-Baari, 3/462

(4) Touching, kissing or pointing to the Black Stone – this is the first thing to be done when starting Tawaaf, whether it is for Hajj or ‘Umrah, or voluntary Tawaaf.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that when the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Makkaah, he came to the Black Stone and touched it, then he walked to the right of it and ran three times and walked three times [around the Ka’bah].

(narrated by Muslim, 1218).

(5) The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kissed the Black Stone, and his ummah followed his lead in doing so.

It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: “I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1520; Muslim, 1720)

(6) If a person is unable to kiss the Stone, he should touch it with his hand or something else, then he can kiss the thing with which he touched it.



(a) It was narrated that Naafi’ said: I saw Ibn ‘Umar touch the Stone with his hand then he kissed his hand. I said, I have never ceased to do this since I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) do it.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1268)

(b) It was narrated that Abu Tufayl (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1275).

(7) If a person is unable to do the above, then he can point to it with his hand and say “Allaahu akbar”.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) performed Tawaaf on his camel, and every time he came to the corner [where the Stone is] he would point to it and say “Allaahu akbar.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4987).

(8) Touching the Stone is one of the things by means of which Allaah expiates for sins

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 959. This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi and as saheeh by al-Haakim (1/664). Al-Dhahabi agreed with him).

It is not permissible for a Muslim to annoy other Muslims at the Stone by hitting or fighting. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that the Stone will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity, which is not the case when a person touches it by disturbing the slaves of Allaah.

And Allaah knows best.

[archangel]

I read these things online.

I just wanted to hear someone put the reasons it their own words. Not a book definition

I see the Kabba was built because Allah instructed to be build it. But why did he want it built? Why do Muslims need to praw to a black box? If Allah is the Creator of the Universe, Shouldn't you be able to pray to him anwhere and everywhere because he is everywhere?

Why did Allah send this Sacred Milk white stone to earth in the first place? what was its purpose?
what did adam and eve do so bad in the way of sin that caused this rock to turn black?
if this a rock that attracks and harnesses sin why would anyone want to touch it or kiss it? how can an object plagued with sin bring blessing to a person?

[tinmenace]

Why do Muslims need to praw to a black box? If Allah is the Creator of the Universe, Shouldn't you be able to pray to him anwhere and everywhere because he is everywhere?



Income through tourism, enforced by religious dogma. Guaranteed profit.

[binhdinh_khiwarrior]

"The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black."

i have been looking into alchemy as of late, and i beleive that the Vimana that are spoken of in the Mahabharata were powered/built by the end product of the alchemical process. I believe this product to be a condensed physically manifested Qi/life force energy-like a hell mad battery or possible "metal" that would be psycho reactive in nature. it is interesting (looking at it from that view)
that it is said - It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”

and
The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.

the vimana were supposed to be powered by a whitish liquid, i have heard of a white product being the end result of an alchemical working. it is interesting that it was written that "the sins of the sons of Adam made it black."-sounds like a psychoreactive substance to me, and if it was made by ETs 1000's of years ago, then it would have been regarded as Godly.
thankyou positive terror-you have made my own research that much easier! although i disagree with terror being positive :p

[positive terror]

"The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black."

i have been looking into alchemy as of late, and i beleive that the Vimana that are spoken of in the Mahabharata were powered/built by the end product of the alchemical process. I believe this product to be a condensed physically manifested Qi/life force energy-like a hell mad battery or possible "metal" that would be psycho reactive in nature. it is interesting (looking at it from that view)
that it is said - It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”

and
The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.

the vimana were supposed to be powered by a whitish liquid, i have heard of a white product being the end result of an alchemical working. it is interesting that it was written that "the sins of the sons of Adam made it black."-sounds like a psychoreactive substance to me, and if it was made by ETs 1000's of years ago, then it would have been regarded as Godly.
thankyou positive terror-you have made my own research that much easier! although i disagree with terror being positive :p

Well, interesting comment, thanks a lot, and...
you know, a Terror against the illuminati and the nwo its a Positive Terror. ;)

[binhdinh_khiwarrior]

lol i see. i think the scariest thing for them wouldbe to run up and give them a hug! i know if some random came up to me and hugged me, it would be scary! lol
but u know i think they are scared ppl are waking up. it was intersting, the way the koran (the sections u quoted) were worded. and other's that i have read too. i'm doing personal research into ancient islamic technology that was wiped out by the christian during the crusades (hey those guys have technology, they must be evil...GET EM! wait a sec they have a convienient method of counting stuff, ok...take that and burn the rest..muhahhaa- that's sort of howi imagine it) i'm going to at some point have a read of it. I don't think any religion is "the true" one, but each has importent knowledge within-and most at least give a moral code of conduct (pretty sad that we HAVE to be taught it..)

[positive terror]

lol i see. i think the scariest thing for them wouldbe to run up and give them a hug! i know if some random came up to me and hugged me, it would be scary! lol
but u know i think they are scared ppl are waking up. it was intersting, the way the koran (the sections u quoted) were worded. and other's that i have read too. i'm doing personal research into ancient islamic technology that was wiped out by the christian during the crusades (hey those guys have technology, they must be evil...GET EM! wait a sec they have a convienient method of counting stuff, ok...take that and burn the rest..muhahhaa- that's sort of howi imagine it) i'm going to at some point have a read of it. I don't think any religion is "the true" one, but each has importent knowledge within-and most at least give a moral code of conduct (pretty sad that we HAVE to be taught it..)

You right my friend, wen I read how the Muslims lived in the time of Al Andalus for example, I wish I was born then...WONDERFUL!!!

Muslims Contribution To Science





Lost of Christians left christianity & the reason was clearly : It contradicts science ! What about Muslims ? Here you can read a breif information about Muslims & Science in the past ..


Astronomy :

Muslims have always had a special interest in astronomy. The moon and the sun are of vital importance in the daily life of every Muslim. By the moon, Muslims determine the beginning and the end of the months in their lunar calendar. By the sun the Muslims calculate the times for prayer and fasting. It is also by means of astronomy that Muslims can determine the precise direction of the Qiblah, to face the Ka'bah in Makkah, during prayer. The most precise solar calendar, superior to the Julian, is the Jilali, devised under the supervision of Umar Khayyam. The Qur'an contains many references to astronomy.

"The heavens and the earth were ordered rightly, and were made subservient to man, including the sun, the moon, the stars, and day and night. Every heavenly body moves in an orbit assigned to it by God and never digresses, making the universe an orderly cosmos whose life and existence, diminution and expansion, are totally determined by the Creator." [Qur'an 30:22]

These references, and the injunctions to learn, inspired the early Muslim scholars to study the heavens. They integrated the earlier works of the Indians, Persians and Greeks into a new synthesis. Ptolemy's Almagest (the title as we know it is Arabic) was translated, studied and criticized. Many new stars were discovered, as we see in their Arabic names - Algol, Deneb, Betelgeuse, Rigel, Aldebaran. Astronomical tables were compiled, among them the Toledan tables, which were used by Copernicus, Tycho Brahe and Kepler. Also compiled were almanacs - another Arabic term. Other terms from Arabic are zenith, nadir, albedo, azimuth.

Muslim astronomers were the first to establish observatories, like the one built at Mugharah by Hulagu, the son of Genghis Khan, in Persia, and they invented instruments such as the quadrant and astrolabe, which led to advances not only in astronomy but in oceanic navigation, contributing to the European age of exploration.

Geography:

Muslim scholars paid great attention to geography. In fact, the Muslims' great concern for geography originated with their religion. The Qur'an encourages people to travel throughout the earth to see God's signs and patterns everywhere. Islam also requires each Muslim to have at least enough knowledge of geography to know the direction of the Qiblah (the position of the Ka'bah in Makkah) in order to pray five times a day. Muslims were also used to taking long journeys to conduct trade as well as to make the Hajj and spread their religion. The far-flung Islamic empire enabled scholar-explorers to compile large amounts of geographical and climatic information from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

Among the most famous names in the field of geography, even in the West, are Ibn Khaldun and Ibn Batuta, renowned for their written accounts of their extensive explorations. In 1166, Al-Idrisi, the well-known Muslim scholar who served the Sicilian court, produced very accurate maps, including a world map with all the continents and their mountains, rivers and famous cities. Al-Muqdishi was the first geographer to produce accurate maps in color. It was, moreover, with the help of Muslim navigators and their inventions that Magellan was able to traverse the Cape of Good Hope, and Da Gama and Columbus had Muslim navigators on board their ships.

Humanity:

Seeking knowledge is obligatory in Islam for every Muslim, man and woman. The main sources of Islam, the Qur'an and the Sunnah (Prophet Muhammad's traditions), encourage Muslims to seek knowledge and be scholars, since this is the best way for people to know Allah (God), to appreciate His wondrous creations and be thankful for them. Muslims were therefore eager to seek knowledge, both religious and secular, and within a few years of Muhammad's mission, a great civilization sprang up and flourished. The outcome is shown in the spread of Islamic universities; Al-Zaytunah in Tunis, and Al-Azhar in Cairo go back more than 1,000 years and are the oldest existing universities in the world. Indeed, they were the models for the first European universities, such as Bologna, Heidelberg, and the Sorbonne. Even the familiar academic cap and gown originated at Al-Azhar University.

Muslims made great advances in many different fields, such as geography, physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, pharmacology, architecture, linguistics and astronomy. Algebra and the Arabic numerals were introduced to the world by Muslim scholars. The astrolabe, the quadrant, and other navigational devices and maps were developed by Muslim scholars and played an important role in world progress, most notably in Europe's age of exploration.

Muslim scholars studied the ancient civilations from Greece and Rome to China and India. The works of Aristotle, Ptolemy, Euclid and others were translated into Arabic. Muslim scholars and scientists then added their own creative ideas, discoveries and inventions, and finally transmitted this new knowledge to Europe, leading directly to the Renaissance. Many scientific and medical treatises, having been translated into Latin, were standard text and reference books as late as the 17th and 18th centuries.

Mathematics:

It is interesting to note that Islam so strongly urges mankind to study and explore the universe. For example, the Holy Qur'an states:

"We (Allah) will show you (mankind) Our signs/patterns in the horizons/universe and in yourselves until you are convinced that the revelation is the truth." [Qur'an, 14:53]

This invitation to explore and search made Muslims interested in astronomy, mathematics, chemistry, and the other sciences, and they had a very clear and firm understanding of the correspondences among geometry, mathematics, and astronomy.

The Muslims invented the symbol for zero (The word "cipher" comes from Arabic sifr), and they organized the numbers into the decimal system - base 10. Additionally, they invented the symbol to express an unknown quantity, i.e. variables like x.

The first great Muslim mathematician, Al-Khawarizmi, invented the subject of algebra (al-Jabr), which was further developed by others, most notably Umar Khayyam. Al-Khawarizmi's work, in Latin translation, brought the Arabic numerals along with the mathematics to Europe, through Spain. The word "algorithm" is derived from his name.

Muslim mathematicians excelled also in geometry, as can be seen in their graphic arts, and it was the great Al-Biruni (who excelled also in the fields of natural history, even geology and mineralogy) who established trigonometry as a distinct branch of mathematics. Other Muslim mathematicians made significant progress in number theory.

Medicine:

In Islam, the human body is a source of appreciation, as it is created by Almighty Allah (God). How it functions, how to keep it clean and safe, how to prevent diseases from attacking it or cure those diseases, have been important issues for Muslims.

Prophet Muhammad himself urged people to "take medicines for your diseases", as people at that time were reluctant to do so. He also said: "God created no illness, but established for it a cure, except for old age. When the antidote is applied, the patient will recover with the permission of God."

This was strong motivation to encourage Muslim scientists to explore, develop, and apply empirical laws. Much attention was given to medicine and public health care. The first hospital was built in Baghdad in 706 AC. The Muslims also used camel caravans as mobile hospitals, which moved from place to place.

Since the religion did not forbid it, Muslim scholars used human cadavers to study anatomy and physiology and to help their students understand how the body functions. This empirical study enabled surgery to develop very quickly.

Al-Razi, known in the West as Rhazes, the famous physician and scientist, (d. 932) was one of the greatest physicians in the world in the Middle Ages. He stressed empirical observation and clinical medicine and was unrivaled as a diagnostician. He also wrote a treatise on hygiene in hospitals. Khalaf Abul-Qasim Al-Zahrawi was a very famous surgeon in the eleventh century, known in Europe for his work, Concessio (Kitab al-Tasrif).

Ibn Sina (d. 1037), better known to the West as Avicenna, was perhaps the greatest physician until the modern era. His famous book, Al-Qanun fi al-Tibb, remained a standard textbook even in Europe, for over 700 years. Ibn Sina's work is still studied and built upon in the East.

Other significant contributions were made in pharmacology, such as Ibn Sina's Kitab al-Shifa' (Book of Healing), and in public health. Every major city in the Islamic world had a number of excellent hospitals, some of them teaching hospitals, and many of them were specialized for particular diseases, including mental and emotional. The Ottomans were particularly noted for their building of hospitals and for the high level of hygiene practiced in them.

Definition:

The word ISLAM has a two-fold meaning: peace, and submission to God. This submission requires a fully conscious and willing effort to submit to the one Almighty God. One must consciously and conscientiously give oneself to the service of Allah. This means to act on what Allah enjoins all of us to do (in the Qur'an) and what His beloved Prophet, Muhammad (pbuh) encouraged us to do in his Sunnah (his lifestyle and sayings personifying the Qur'an).

Once we humble ourselves, rid ourselves of our egoism and submit totally to Allah, and to Him exclusively, in faith and in action, we will surely feel peace in our hearts. Establishing peace in our hearts will bring about peace in our external conduct as well.

Islam is careful to remind us that it not a religion to be paid mere lip service; rather it is an all-encompassing way of life that must be practiced continuously for it to be Islam. The Muslim must practice the five pillars of the religion: the declaration of faith in the oneness of Allah and the prophet hood of Muhammad (pbuh), prayer, fasting the month of Ramadan, alms-tax, and the pilgrimage to Makkah; and believe in the six articles of faith: belief in God, the Holy Books, the prophets, the angels, the Day of Judgment and God's decree, whether for good or ill.

There are other injunctions and commandments which concern virtually all facets of one's personal, family and civic life. These include such matters as diet, clothing, personal hygiene, interpersonal relations, business ethics, responsibilities towards parents, spouse and children, marriage, divorce and inheritance, civil and criminal law, fighting in defense of Islam, relations with non-Muslims, and so much more.

[archangel]

Could you please reply to my questions.

I'd be very intested to hear your response.

[binhdinh_khiwarrior]

Muslims were also used to taking long journeys to conduct trade as well as to make the Hajj and spread their religion

that was most interesting, thannkyou.

-the greatest rate of islamistaion and christian istaion of South East Asia occured during the silver boom (1540..?). islam wasan attractive religion for island SEA peoples because of the massive international "brotherhood" network, and if converted a muslim is a muslim so there (and it has been recorded) was no or little racist attitude to new converts, no matter how ethnically different ( i have to respect that!)..sorry i studdied about that stuff last semester lol

there are two points left though...

the sikhs also practise the cultivation of life force energy-barakka (or QI), and interestingly enough (to me anyway coz of what i was saying earlier) that alchemy was also a part of the islamic culture (India, egyptian and chinese too). which is why i thought it was interesting what u were quoting from the koran...the sins of the ons of adam turned the stone black-and that it came from the heavens....

[binhdinh_khiwarrior]

the answer to ur questions is there! God....

[positive terror]

Could you please reply to my questions.

I'd be very intested to hear your response.

I respond you with this verse:

[2:177] Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves; and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat); and they keep their word whenever they make a promise; and they steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war. These are the truthful; these are the righteous.


I think that everything is explained in the texts that I have exposed, but I will respond you in the same way that to a Christian that asked me that how we erase the sins in Islam,(because in the Christianity Jesus crucixion erases all the sins), I told him that we erase our sins directly asking for forgiveness to God and making good actions, but mainly practicing the obligations of Islam, and one of them is the pilgramage to Meca, in the obligation of Hajj it is where we practice the teachings of several Prophets of Allah like Abraham and Ismael. Allah has told us through Muhammad like to carry out practices them of Hajj, and among them this practices to greet the black rock, when we make it, we make it with the intention of coming closer to Allah and of receiving the pardon and the blessings.

[archangel]

These were my questions:

1 Why did Allah want the kabba built?

2 Why do Muslims need to praw to a black box?
If Allah is the Creator of the Universe, Shouldn't you be able to pray to him anwhere and everywhere because he is everywhere?

3 Why did Allah send this Sacred Milk white stone to earth in the first place? what was its purpose?

4 what did adam and eve do so bad in the way of sin that caused this rock to turn black?

5 if this a rock that attracks and harnesses sin why would anyone want to touch it or kiss it? how can an object plagued with sin bring blessing to a person?

[binhdinh_khiwarrior]

object plagued with sin bring blessing to a person?

i suggest that it is a psych-reactive substance- it absorbs the "negativity" created when a person commits a "sin". or it feeds off it...?

[positive terror]

These were my questions:

1 Why did Allah want the kabba built?

2 Why do Muslims need to praw to a black box?
If Allah is the Creator of the Universe, Shouldn't you be able to pray to him anwhere and everywhere because he is everywhere?

3 Why did Allah send this Sacred Milk white stone to earth in the first place? what was its purpose?

4 what did adam and eve do so bad in the way of sin that caused this rock to turn black?

5 if this a rock that attracks and harnesses sin why would anyone want to touch it or kiss it? how can an object plagued with sin bring blessing to a person?

Hello Arcangel

First: Your questions would need a book to respond them, but I will comment you shortly.

Why did Allah want the kabba built?

Kaaba has been exclusively the first built building for the adoration of Allah, it is the house of Allah, it is a mosque, where one prays to Allah and remember and think in Allah.

Why do Muslims need to praw to a black box?
If Allah is the Creator of the Universe, Shouldn't you be able to pray to him anwhere and everywhere because he is everywhere?

The kaaba is the direction in which pray, we don't adore the kaaba, it is the universal direction of the Muslims to carry out its prays to Allah. (Imagine that doesn't exist the kaaba, the Asian Muslims would have their own direction, the Arabs other direction , the Africans other and a chaos would be made this way...Grace to Allah to unite us in our prays).
For your information, a Muslim that doesn't know the direction of the kaaba can pray in any address, as a Muslim that is in a ship or airplane, or that it is lost in an unknown place.
Anyway, the Muslims don't believe that Allah is everywhere, we believe that He is above all the creations. He is the Towering one.

Why did Allah send this Sacred Milk white stone to earth in the first place? what was its purpose?

The fact that it is black is a lesson for those who have insight. If sins can have this effect on an inanimate rock, then the effect they have on the heart is greater. The Black Stone will come forth on the Day of Resurrection and will testify in favour of those who touched it in truth.

what did adam and eve do so bad in the way of sin that caused this rock to turn black?

This means, the sins of the sons of Adam who touched the stone, caused it to turn black.
Worshiping statues, stars, planets, dead, spirits and other creations, cause the biggest sin is to associate something or somebody with Allah.
Allah has created you, worship Him alone.

if this a rock that attracks and harnesses sin why would anyone want to touch it or kiss it? how can an object plagued with sin bring blessing to a person?

I hope to visit the black stone and to kiss her with the intention it absorbs my sins too. I repeat you the Caliph's sentence Omar that so much I like:

It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: “I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.”

[noewhan]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=450&pictureid=7933

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=450&pictureid=7934

Similarities?

Footage from within the Kabba

In the texts, don't they say something about Solomon or some priest who put daemons into 'vessels' or vases? In the video they are hanging from a cord across the pylons @ 2:07.

[lcr123]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=450&pictureid=7933

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=450&pictureid=7934

Similarities?

Footage from within the Kabba (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MimunZijM)

In the texts, don't they say something about Solomon or some priest who put daemons into 'vessels' or vases? In the video they are hanging from a cord across the pylons @ 2:07.

Nasty, May Allah Guide you, i desire not to amongst the ignorant, peace.

[herushura]

Kabba = Kabbalah = Kabba-Allah = Brotherhood of the Luminary

Luminary is the opposite of the Illuminati

Luminary = Moon/Star Worship (Dark) (Worship a BLACK stone)(Allah/Allat Moon God)(Luna)
Illuminati = Sun Worship (Light) (Worship Sun God JesusCaeser)(Ra's Obelisk)(Sol)

[loveisthelaw]

Kabba = Kabbalah = Kabba-Allah = Brotherhood of the Luminary

Luminary is the opposite of the Illuminati

Luminary = Moon/Star Worship (Dark) (Worship a BLACK stone)
Illuminati = Sun Worship (Light) (Worship Sun God JesusCaeser)(Ra's Obelisk)

haha!

Shame it is not Kabba though, nor is it Alah. It is Ka3bah and Allah. Ka3bahAllah would mean Cube of the God. lol

Ka3bah = Cube
Allah = The God

Sorry to break your illusion.

The moon has nothing to do with Islam, it came about from the Ottomans and is used in some flags like the Pakistani flag, yet it has no reference to Islam and Islam does not recognise any symbology or shapes. Moon worship is from pre-Islamic time where people worshiped the moon..

[nioz]

CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO, IT SHOWS THE GOLDEN RATIO
AND WHAT IT HAS TO DO WITH MECCA (Kaaba)

miracle of kaaba - YouTube

[eternal_spirit]

The Black Stone


Praise be to Allaah.

There are a number of ahaadeeth etc. about the Black Stone which we will quote for our brother so that he may learn from them.

1. The Black Stone was sent down by Allaah to this earth from Paradise.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi).

2. The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”
Anyone actually believe this crap?
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462).



(a) Al-Mubaarakfoori said in al-Marqaah: This means, the sins of the sons of Adam who touched the stone, caused it to turn black. The hadeeth should be taken at face value, because there is no reason not to, either narrated in a report or by virtue of common sense.

(Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi, 3/525)

(b) Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said: Some heretics tried to criticize this hadeeth by saying: How come the sins of the mushrikeen turned it black and the worship of the people of Tawheed did not make it white?

I answer by quoting what Ibn Qutaybah said: If Allaah had willed, that would have happened. But Allaah has caused it to be the case that black usually changes other colours and its not itself changed, which is the opposite to what happens with white.

(c) Al-Muhibb al-Tabari said: The fact that it is black is a lesson for those who have insight. If sins can have this effect on an inanimate rock, then the effect they have on the heart is greater.

See Fath al-Baari, 3/463

3. The Black Stone will come forth on the Day of Resurrection and will testify in favour of those who touched it in truth.
:rolleyes: Sure it will talking stones LOL.
It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said concerning the Stone: “By Allaah, Allaah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944

This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi, and as qawiy by al-Haafiz ibn Hajar in Fath al-Baari, 3/462

(4) Touching, kissing or pointing to the Black Stone – this is the first thing to be done when starting Tawaaf, whether it is for Hajj or ‘Umrah, or voluntary Tawaaf.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that when the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Makkaah, he came to the Black Stone and touched it, then he walked to the right of it and ran three times and walked three times [around the Ka’bah].

(narrated by Muslim, 1218).

(5) The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kissed the Black Stone, and his ummah followed his lead in doing so.

It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: “I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1520; Muslim, 1720)

(6) If a person is unable to kiss the Stone, he should touch it with his hand or something else, then he can kiss the thing with which he touched it.



(a) It was narrated that Naafi’ said: I saw Ibn ‘Umar touch the Stone with his hand then he kissed his hand. I said, I have never ceased to do this since I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) do it.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1268)

(b) It was narrated that Abu Tufayl (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1275).

(7) If a person is unable to do the above, then he can point to it with his hand and say “Allaahu akbar”.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) performed Tawaaf on his camel, and every time he came to the corner [where the Stone is] he would point to it and say “Allaahu akbar.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4987).

(8) Touching the Stone is one of the things by means of which Allaah expiates for sins

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 959. This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi and as saheeh by al-Haakim (1/664). Al-Dhahabi agreed with him).

It is not permissible for a Muslim to annoy other Muslims at the Stone by hitting or fighting. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that the Stone will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity, which is not the case when a person touches it by disturbing the slaves of Allaah.

And Allaah knows best.More absolute proof that Islam is absolute Bullshit.


Look into the Koranic prophecies and go to a Muslim forum and see how insane it all is. Lot's of nice comments such as Dijal this evil west that. Joos dis Brits and Americans (evil satanic lot) blah blah blah, Jihad for the IWO (Islamic world order).
The Mahdi is XYZ?
And many of these fuckwits actually believe this crap and want and some will try make it happen.

Sharia for all! FFS!

[loveisthelaw]

CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO, IT SHOWS THE GOLDEN RATIO
AND WHAT IT HAS TO DO WITH MECCA (Kaaba)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zuc3RvpBIEE&

Interesting video :) I did not know this, will have to check if it is valid.

Thanks a lot, may Allah reward you according to your intention

[loveisthelaw]

Anyone actually believe this crap?
:rolleyes: Sure it will talking stones LOL.

Not only a stone will speak, but your mouth will be sealed and your limbs will testify to the deeds you did, the Qur3n will also speak about your use of it. Imagine that, books and stones speaking, even your arms and legs will complain to Allah about what you made them do!!

Yes, you make your body sin, it will testify against you, just like in the movie where the blood cries out from the ground to a person about who killed the guy (can;t remember which one it was)

Zomg, you must be in a movie too!!!

Fancy a bacon sandwich dude? lol

[chip1]

I read these things online.

I just wanted to hear someone put the reasons it their own words. Not a book definition

I see the Kabba was built because Allah instructed to be build it. But why did he want it built? Why do Muslims need to praw to a black box? If Allah is the Creator of the Universe, Shouldn't you be able to pray to him anwhere and everywhere because he is everywhere?

Why did Allah send this Sacred Milk white stone to earth in the first place? what was its purpose?
what did adam and eve do so bad in the way of sin that caused this rock to turn black?
if this a rock that attracks and harnesses sin why would anyone want to touch it or kiss it? how can an object plagued with sin bring blessing to a person?


The Black Rock is the Son of Man...He collects the sins from Adams Family...

The Bible also mentions about the valley of Baca in connection with the pilgrimage. Below is the quote from Psalms 84 (NIV):

1 How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD Almighty!
2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.
3 Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-- a place near your altar, O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you.
5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.
8 Hear my prayer, O LORD God Almighty; listen to me, O God of Jacob.
9 Look upon our shield, O God; look with favor on your anointed one.
10 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless.

[loveisthelaw]

The Black Rock is the Son of Man...He collects the sins from Adams Family...

The Bible also mentions about the valley of Baca in connection with the pilgrimage. Below is the quote from Psalms 84 (NIV):

1 How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD Almighty!
2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.
3 Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-- a place near your altar, O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you.
5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.
8 Hear my prayer, O LORD God Almighty; listen to me, O God of Jacob.
9 Look upon our shield, O God; look with favor on your anointed one.
10 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless.

Nice passage. One amendment - Even those who walk in blame, guilt and sin, God is still blessing every footstep they take - man can not count the enumerable blessings placed before him - the prince, the pauper, the sinner and the saint, all receive a share of Gods great mercy and forgiveness.

May God forgive those who are on his chosen path and guide those who are astray and bless them with more than the righteous so they may turn and be thankful.

[chip1]

Oh yes in deed all are truly blessed whether they accept it or not...

[lcr123]

Anyone actually believe this crap?
:rolleyes: Sure it will talking stones LOL.
More absolute proof that Islam is absolute Bullshit.


Look into the Koranic prophecies and go to a Muslim forum and see how insane it all is. Lot's of nice comments such as Dijal this evil west that. Joos dis Brits and Americans (evil satanic lot) blah blah blah, Jihad for the IWO (Islamic world order).
The Mahdi is XYZ?
And many of these fuckwits actually believe this crap and want and some will try make it happen.

Sharia for all! FFS!

you insult Islam, and you insult Islam by using foul language, you claim to be for goodness and say Islam is against anything good, but yet in your ''religious'' debates the foul language says a lot about your character, i am not saying this to humilate you but to make a point.

[snappy]

Not only a stone will speak, but your mouth will be sealed and your limbs will testify to the deeds you did, the Qur3n will also speak about your use of it. Imagine that, books and stones speaking, even your arms and legs will complain to Allah about what you made them do!!

Who says that the soul has a mouth and limbs? :D the islamic belief system is very far fetched and is almost like a hollywood movie where history is re-written:D

Allah did not command/request the building of the Kaaba. It was an ancient vedic centre for millenia before Allah was even invented:D

BTW the crescent moon symbol adopted by islam is the sign of Lord Shiva:eek: muslims can deny this as much as they want buit where else in pre-islamic times is this particular symbol used other than representing Lord Shiva?

EXACTLY:D

[loveisthelaw]

you insult Islam, and you insult Islam by using foul language, you claim to be for goodness and say Islam is against anything good, but yet in your ''religious'' debates the foul language says a lot about your character, i am not saying this to humilate you but to make a point.

Yes brother, by their works we know them. If you observe ES profile and check his posts, they are all very similar in content all over this forum.

As the prophet SAWS said, the tongue is the biggest danger to any human, let his ego bask in it's glory for now.

Salams

[loveisthelaw]

Who says that the soul has a mouth and limbs? :D the islamic belief system is very far fetched and is almost like a hollywood movie where history is re-written:D

Allah did not command/request the building of the Kaaba. It was an ancient vedic centre for millenia before Allah was even invented:D

BTW the crescent moon symbol adopted by islam is the sign of Lord Shiva:eek: muslims can deny this as much as they want buit where else in pre-islamic times is this particular symbol used other than representing Lord Shiva?

EXACTLY:D

Soul? Who mentioned the soul having limbs - perhaps re-read what I said ;) And you do not understand Islamic teaching on facing the "judgement" it seems..... your soul will not face Allah, you will, even your fingertips will be recreated.

The moon symbol has not been adopted by Islam, it has nothing to do with Islam.

Nice try though

[eternal_spirit]

you insult Islam, and you insult Islam by using foul language, you claim to be for goodness and say Islam is against anything good, but yet in your ''religious'' debates the foul language says a lot about your character, i am not saying this to humilate you but to make a point.

So what? I have been called allsorts and much foul language used to attack me on many threads.
There's a few Muslims here (scooby85 and Zarah)) who have replied hundreds of times (almost every reply was foul mouthed and insulting).
But if you never seen page after page and thread after thread of me being abused (then your ignorance is forgiven)

How's this? I still believe Islam is a load of nonsense, the talking stones reporting and helping judge one with Allah is beyond ridiculous.
And the black stone which was once claimed to be white? there is no proof whatsoever that it was ever white! Only some silly story claiming it was.

[loveisthelaw]

How's this? I still believe Islam is a load of nonsense, the talking stones reporting and helping judge one with Allah is beyond ridiculous.

Yet the UN in Agenda 21 states that Trees and Stones are living objects and have equal rights to that of humans due to the fact that they will one day reincarnate in to humans...

I assume you post as much propaganda about the UN?

Right..

[eternal_spirit]

An what about the 360 odd idols of various deities that used to be in Mecca was it surrounding the Kabba?

Muhammad had them destroyed? bar one?

[eternal_spirit]

Yet the UN in agenda 21 states that Trees and Stones are living objects and have equal rights to that of humans. I assume you post as much propaganda about the UN? Right..Maurice Strong?:D = ass hole.

[lcr123]

So what? I have been called allsorts and much foul language used to attack me on many threads.
There's a few Muslims here (scooby85 and Zarah)) who have replied hundreds of times (almost every reply was foul mouthed and insulting).
But if you never seen page after page and thread after thread of me being abused (then your ignorance is forgiven)

How's this? I still believe Islam is a load of nonsense, the talking stones reporting and helping judge one with Allah is beyond ridiculous.
And the black stone which was once claimed to be white? there is no proof whatsoever that it was ever white! Only some silly story claiming it was.

so what do you believe in?

[loveisthelaw]

Maurice Strong?:D = ass hole.

Sorry, do not know a Maurice Strong.

[snappy]

Soul? Who mentioned the soul having limbs - perhaps re-read what I said ;) And you do not understand Islamic teaching on facing the "judgement" it seems..... your soul will not face Allah, you will, even your fingertips will be recreated.

The moon symbol has not been adopted by Islam, it has nothing to do with Islam.

Nice try though

Nice try at what?

To put you straight - I understand your concept of judgement day. I was merely saying that when anyone is judged I very much doubt that the decomposed human body would be recreated - that is rediculous, if you believe this, well it says a lot about your faith.

the moon symbol has everything to do with islam, why is it sitting at the top of your mosques? why is it on muslim countries flags?

I am not trolling you or slurring islam before you get ultra defensive and call a jihad on me, you are on david icke forum, are you here to find the truth or spread disinformation?

[eternal_spirit]

so what do you believe in?
That a stone cannot be turned from white to black due to the sin's of Adam's children.
I have no religious beliefs. I reject all of them Christ et al.

[snappy]

Yet the UN in Agenda 21 states that Trees and Stones are living objects and have equal rights to that of humans due to the fact that they will one day reincarnate in to humans...

I assume you post as much propaganda about the UN?

Right..


Please can you quote your source, I am unable to find anything that could be vaguely interpretated to support your statement.:p

[loveisthelaw]

Nice try at what?

To put you straight - I understand your concept of judgement day. I was merely saying that when anyone is judged I very much doubt that the decomposed human body would be recreated - that is rediculous, if you believe this, well it says a lot about your faith.

the moon symbol has everything to do with islam, why is it sitting at the top of your mosques? why is it on muslim countries flags?

I am not trolling you or slurring islam before you get ultra defensive and call a jihad on me, you are on david icke forum, are you here to find the truth or spread disinformation?

Well, you failed to read what I said correctly....... so what can I think. Anyhow, clearly you do not understand it, yet giving you the benefit of the doubt for a second, it is not equally "ridiculous" to believe in some ghostly smoke (spirit) floating around waiting for same said judgement?

It has nothing to do with Islam, if it is on top of Mosques it is because the builder of the Mosque chose to put it there, or because Pakistani flag designers decided to put it there.

It is called Biddah, or innovation which is rejected by any knowledgeable Islamic scholar, yet since you are so well versed in Islamic theology, you would know that, surely.....

Do what you like here, it matters little to me - but if you choose to paste bullshit in a forum I am viewing, do not expect me to sit back while you charm your snakes.

[loveisthelaw]

Please can you quote your source, I am unable to find anything that could be vaguely interpretated to support your statement.:p

Agenda 21 is the document name, should be on the UN website. Enjoy.

[chip1]

That a stone cannot be turned from white to black due to the sin's of Adam's children.
I have no religious beliefs. I reject all of them Christ et al.

That is a sad thing my friend...Reject and be ejected...The ejection site is the dark abyss...From which you will find yourself black and cold yelling and screaming from the cold of darkness...I have been there and it is true that your teeth will chatter...But it is so dark you don't know that you even have them...

And even worse you are alone...

I don't care if you believe in religion or Jesus or any other man...But for your own sake believe in a Creator...If not you will stay in that dark abyss for a very long time...

From Black to Light you will come back sooner or later...

[wacko]

That is a sad thing my friend...Reject and be ejected...The ejection site is the dark abyss...From which you will find yourself black and cold yelling and screaming from the cold of darkness...I have been there and it is true that your teeth will chatter...But it is so dark you don't know that you even have them...

And even worse you are alone...

I don't care if you believe in religion or Jesus or any other man...But for your own sake believe in a Creator...If not you will stay in that dark abyss for a very long time...

From Black to Light you will come back sooner or later...

even god don't care if we believe in him or not we have free will remember?
if he does he wont let all these fake religions to control peoples mind and growing up spiritually involves getting ourselves into trouble not living in fear about the judgment day that god will punish us for our deeds

i hope you got what im saying

[eternal_spirit]

That is a sad thing my friend...Reject and be ejected...The ejection site is the dark abyss...From which you will find yourself black and cold yelling and screaming from the cold of darkness...I have been there and it is true that your teeth will chatter...But it is so dark you don't know that you even have them...

And even worse you are alone...

I don't care if you believe in religion or Jesus or any other man...But for your own sake believe in a Creator...If not you will stay in that dark abyss for a very long time...

From Black to Light you will come back sooner or later...
I am my own saviour. Your saviours where created for you by religious men. They will not save you, because they don't exist.

Serioulsy it's you religious people that are on a loser here. Hopefully you'll have the strength and courage to save yourselves, when you see through the lies you believe and have been fed.

[eternal_spirit]

Why didn't Islam ditch these symbols and why continue to use them as universal symbols of Islam Today? If you and other Muslims claim they are not Islamic, I think you've been fed a myth (it's not logical, although not much is logical with Islam which is full of contradictions).

Another example - The Burkha is Un Islamic yet only Muslims wear them in the UK etc. So why bother wearing them?

The real reason for the symbols is to do with the Kabbah in Mecca (which was originally a Pagan Arab site of worship, where many deities where worshipped including sun and moon deities. Muhammad trashed most of the statutes etc of the other deities when he conquered Mecca.

have a look on google image etc there's alot of variation
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Islam-symbol.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Islam_symbol_green_gradation2.svg/500px-Islam_symbol_green_gradation2.svg.png

http://www.blog.churchwebstop.com/wp-images/islam_symbol.jpg


Some theories
I see a partial eclipse of the sun by the moon symbolic of the black flag Islam? The star Venus = Green another flag they use?
Male and female sun and moon. Inverted pentagram Baphomet Mahomet - Muhammad.


. http://www.sultaniamosquebrierfield.org.uk/images/templates/10/jamia_sultania_mosque.gif

http://boisterousgirl.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/logo-irmab.jpg

Symbols galore and more not difficult to find.

http://i.pbase.com/g4/12/660512/2/60645015.DSCF7414.jpg

http://www.earth-photography.com/photos/Countries/Hungary/Hungary_Budapest_GulBabaMosque.jpg

Turkish crescent on top of Turkish leader Gül Baba's tomb and mosque. Symbolic of Satan or some two horned god/demon.

[loveisthelaw]

Islam does not use the symbols and it never adopted them, people who claim to be Muslim use them and adopted them - there is a big difference and you are clearly intelligent enough to know that. There is no such thing as a "symbol" for Islam. It is merely lack of education and understanding.

Why is the Burqa unislamic? Any modest clothing is halal, so wearing a space suit is also halal. The minimum requirement is a loose fitting hijab, to cover the hair and bosom (with regards to covering the upper body). I guess you mean the Niqab because the Burqa does not cover the face. there is no requirement for a woman to cover her face, if they choose to then that is their choice..

Find any Hadith or Ayat from the Qura3n that says the moon and star are to be used as the symbol of Islam, if you can.

[lostwonderer]

I suppose this is the perfect thread to place my question. Please don't be offended by it, it's merely something that i've across and found interesting to say the least. It'll be very brief.

Is there possibly a connection between the Kaaba and the vedic era? By this i mean, certain elements of Hindusim also having similarities to those of Islam; the black stone in Mecca and the Lingam portrayed in Hinduism? Or walking around the Kaaba seven times. Is there a specific reason for doing so?


I don't have much information on this subject, so if anyone has more knowledge on it, feel free to add to it.

[snappy]

it is not equally "ridiculous" to believe in some ghostly smoke (spirit) floating around waiting for same said judgement?


Do what you like here, it matters little to me - but if you choose to paste bullshit in a forum I am viewing, do not expect me to sit back while you charm your snakes.

Both of what you say is ridiculous in my opinion. there is NO day of judgement to start with...also the only person that has mentioned ghostly smoke hanging around for judgement is you.

The same goes to you my friend, I repeat your words to you. Do what you like here, it matters little to me - but if you choose to paste bullshit in a forum I am viewing, do not expect me to sit back while you charm your snakes.

And finally I have looked on the UN website and found nothing to support your claim. Please post up your source for you claim that in agenda 21 the UN gives stones and trees the same status as Humans as they will be re-incarnated oneday. Also how does this belief in re-incarnation fit in with your particular beliefs?;)

[fyro]

I suppose this is the perfect thread to place my question. Please don't be offended by it, it's merely something that i've across and found interesting to say the least. It'll be very brief.

Is there possibly a connection between the Kaaba and the vedic era? By this i mean, certain elements of Hindusim also having similarities to those of Islam; the black stone in Mecca and the Lingam portrayed in Hinduism? Or walking around the Kaaba seven times. Is there a specific reason for doing so?


I don't have much information on this subject, so if anyone has more knowledge on it, feel free to add to it.
hindus walk around navagrahas after worshiping them

[fyro]

I suppose this is the perfect thread to place my question. Please don't be offended by it, it's merely something that i've across and found interesting to say the least. It'll be very brief.

Is there possibly a connection between the Kaaba and the vedic era? By this i mean, certain elements of Hindusim also having similarities to those of Islam; the black stone in Mecca and the Lingam portrayed in Hinduism? Or walking around the Kaaba seven times. Is there a specific reason for doing so?


I don't have much information on this subject, so if anyone has more knowledge on it, feel free to add to it.

there are also several hindu missionaries who traveled to these place to teach people about philosophy and science before christian/islam era so don't be surprised if you hear that these places were build by the hindus

[snappy]

Islam does not use the symbols and it never adopted them, people who claim to be Muslim use them and adopted them - there is a big difference and you are clearly intelligent enough to know that. There is no such thing as a "symbol" for Islam. It is merely lack of education and understanding.


If this is true then why does nobody in the islamic community correct everybody? So if i was to draw a crescent moon and star on the pavement and defecate it - you wouldnt be offended as it has nothing to do with Islam? hm,mmmmmmmmmmmmmm


I mean it is a common knowledge fact that The crescent moon and star is an internationally-recognized symbol of the faith of Islam. FACT

Are you even Muslim?

[eternal_spirit]

hindus walk around navagrahas after worshiping them
By faith (http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/faith.html) the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days. By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient” (Hebrews 11:30-31 (http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/heb11.html#30)).

Old Jewish tale.

[fyro]

By faith (http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/faith.html) the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days. By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient” (Hebrews 11:30-31 (http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/heb11.html#30)).

Old Jewish tale.

thanks
for your information jews,hebrew language and kabbalah came from india too

[loveisthelaw]

Both of what you say is ridiculous in my opinion. there is NO day of judgement to start with...also the only person that has mentioned ghostly smoke hanging around for judgement is you.


Well I had a few options to play with, I just shot for the most obvious and assumed that you followed Christian tradition.

So lets assume you believe in reincarnation, you therefor believe your smoke will hang around for a bit then jump in to another body, human, creature, what ever. Still just as "rediculous" when used in the manner you did previously.

Lets also go with the atheism route for completeness - you must therefor assume you have no soul and thus when you die, that is the end. That to me also sounds rediculous being that it will render your current life and all experiences, trials and victories as totally pointless and meaningless once you pass.

What ever way you cut it, which ever path you follow, the end (what happens after death) seems rediculous according to understanding.


The same goes to you my friend, I repeat your words to you. Do what you like here, it matters little to me - but if you choose to paste bullshit in a forum I am viewing, do not expect me to sit back while you charm your snakes.


As you wish :) You state the Star and Moon are the symbols of Islam. Yet the only authority on Islam is Qura3n and Hadith. Just because morons around the world wish to associate it with Islam or wish to say it is part of Islam, does not make it a part of it, no matter how you like to word your speech.

Being that Qura3n and Hadith are the ONLY authority on what is Islamic and what is not, find for me your evidence form Islamic sources? You can not because it is not.


And finally I have looked on the UN website and found nothing to support your claim. Please post up your source for you claim that in agenda 21 the UN gives stones and trees the same status as Humans as they will be re-incarnated oneday. Also how does this belief in re-incarnation fit in with your particular beliefs?;)
[/quote]

You found nothing to support my claim.. well then I can only assume like your previous failure to read the actual content of my post, you also failed to read the charter. There is some homework for you.

Buy a Qura3n and read it, you will find how I view reincarnation.

[snappy]

loveisthelaw - You really do need some help dont you?

the people you are calling morons are your own muslim brothers.

I like your avoidance of answers and inability to state fact. You should try taking your blinkers off once in a while.

[loveisthelaw]

loveisthelaw - You really do need some help dont you?

the people you are calling morons are your own muslim brothers.

I like your avoidance of answers and inability to state fact. You should try taking your blinkers off once in a while.

I do? That will be relative. Can't please everyone. What was that saying about truth. At first it is ridiculed, then it is considered and then it is accepted as common knowledge. Something like that.

You are my brother too and I will still call you an ass hole when you act like one.

I am not avoiding answers - I gave you everything you need, if you want spoon fed then you go back to colouring books.

[loveisthelaw]

P = Precautionary Principle. If any risk, stop. If evidence is inconclusive, stop absolutely. If no proof, stop anyway. The prudent “Better safe than sorry” is perverted to “Safe sorrow for all!”
E = Environment over all. Its “intrinsic value” is necessary for future generations on the globe.
E = Equity demands no “disparities” among all people globally, among all people inter-generationally, and among all species of life and non-life: human, animal, plant, and inanimate rock.
V = Visioning councils for stakeholders
E = Economic equity. High technology is too expensive and inequitably distributed. Whatever everyone cannot have, no one shall have.


That should get you started.

[snappy]

I do? That will be relative. Can't please everyone. What was that saying about truth. At first it is ridiculed, then it is considered and then it is accepted as common knowledge. Something like that.

You are my brother too and I will still call you an ass hole when you act like one.

I am not avoiding answers - I gave you everything you need, if you want spoon fed then you go back to colouring books.

I dont think you understand how this workss:rolleyes: Your the one arguing your claim. support it with fact and evidence rather than your own misguided opinions. You have spoken no truth, please provide your evidence to support or disprove the Original Poster or GTFO of this thread, you worm. if you want to discuss the relevance of the moon symbology in Islam then start a thread and lets discuss it there.......or is that too difficult for you?

And believe me you are no brother of mine!


why dont you ask your mother how many fathers you have?:cool:

[loveisthelaw]

I dont think you understand how this workss:rolleyes: Your the one arguing your claim. support it with fact and evidence rather than your own misguided opinions.

I am not arguing it though, you are :) If I recall I was not even talking to you when you rudely interrupted with your "misguided opinion" So, feel free to bring all your evidences.


why dont you ask your mother how many fathers you have?


Why don't you?

[snappy]

I am not arguing it though, you are :) If I recall I was not even talking to you when you rudely interrupted with your "misguided opinion" So, feel free to bring all your evidences.



Why don't you?

you have now joined your fellow brothers on the ignore list:D

[loveisthelaw]

you have now joined your fellow brothers on the ignore list:D

http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/ostrich_head_sand2.gif

[herushura]

In his work on the Christian Black Virgins and their origins, Ean Begg relates Cybele to the Ka'bah.

"Her name is etymologically linked with the words for crypt, cave, head and dome and is distantly related to the Ka'aba, the cube-shaped Holy of Holies in Mecca that contains the feminine black stone(of Cybele) venerated by Islam" Begg, p.57

Cybele, like the Ephesian Artemis and many other goddesses, was also venerated in the form of a black stone. Once this stone had been brought to Rome, both stone and goddess were worshipped in the Roman Empire until the 4th century CE.

A Roman name for this goddess was Mater Kubile, and sometimes also simply Magna Mater, meaning "Great Mother".The self-mutilation was justified by the myth that her lover, the fertility god Attis, had emasculated himself under a pine tree, where he bled to death. At Cybele's annual festival (March 15-27), a pine tree was cut and brought to her shrine

Kaaba ( name means cube) was built in the 7th Century on top of a ROman temple to MAgna MAter ( great Mother) Cybele whose name mean cube. The idea of the 4 corners of the earth comes to mind.

See also: Christmas Hanukkah & The Hajj Emerged from The Roman Sacred Saturnalia Festival 112609.mov - YouTube

???????

[nicolaj]

MuslimLiesExposed's Channel - YouTube

The Black Stone



During the Islamic pilgrimage, the Muslim is to run around the Ka’bah seven times and kiss and caress the black stone. The pagan Arabs also kissed and caressed the black stone because it was a meteorite that fell from the heavens. The pagans believed it to be a gift from the gods (i.e. the moon, the sun, the planets, or the stars) because it came from the heavens. The kissing of the black stone, a meteorite, being part of monotheistic worship makes no sense unless it is understood that it started out as part of pagan polytheistic astral worship. Even Umar, one of Muhammad’s closest followers, and later on, one of Islam’s first Caliphs, stated:



“Narrated ‘Abis bin Rabia:

‘Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said “No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you.””

-Sahih Bukhari 2.667, Sahih Bukhari 2.675, Sahih Bukhari 2.676, Sahih Bukhari 2.679, Sahih Bukhari 2.680



Umar and (I’m sure) many of the Muslims knew that the kissing of the black stone was tantamount to idolatry. The kissing and caressing of the black stone could never have been part of original monotheism.

[nicolaj]

If this is true then why does nobody in the islamic community correct everybody? So if i was to draw a crescent moon and star on the pavement and defecate it - you wouldnt be offended as it has nothing to do with Islam? hm,mmmmmmmmmmmmmm


I mean it is a common knowledge fact that The crescent moon and star is an internationally-recognized symbol of the faith of Islam. FACT

Are you even Muslim?

true

The Star and Crescent

Almost all Muslim country’s flag have the star and cresent and on the top of every mosque and minaret is the Islamic symbol of the star and crescent moon.

Even before Islam, it was the common symbol for astral worship. In fact, the crescent moon pointing straight upwards was the banner of the ancient Carthaginians. The Carthaginians were related to the Phoenicians, and just like the Phoenicians, they worshipped Baal, the moon-god lllah, who was the head of an astral pantheon. The symbol of the star and crescent, being the symbol of monotheistic religion makes no sense unless it is understood that it started out as the symbol of pagan polytheistic astral worship.


http://islam.about.com/od/history/a/crescent_moon.htm


What is the history behind the crescent moon symbol? What does it symbolize or mean? How and when did it become associated with the faith of Islam? Is it a valid symbol for the faith?

The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon as its symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.

“Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?”

- Robert Morey, The Islamic Invasion (Las Vegas, NV: Christian Scholars Press, 1992), p.218.




Also Ramadam pre dates Islam..

Ramadan


Ramadan is the ninth and holiest month of the Muslim calendar. It begins and ends with the sighting of the crescent moon. Robert Morey notes:



“The dominant religion that had grown very powerful just before Muhammad’s time was that of the Sabeans’…They used a lunar calendar to regulate their religious rites. For example, a month of fasting was regulated by the phases of the moon.

The Sabean pagan rite of fasting began with the appearance of a crescent moon and did not cease until the crescent moon reappeared. This would later be adopted as one of the five pillars of Islam.”

- Robert Morey, The Islamic Invasion (Las Vegas, NV: Christian Scholars Press, 1992), p.42.

Praying Toward Mecca



Every Muslim is religiously bound to pray a certain number of times a day, and to face in the direction of Mecca (called the Qiblah). The ancient pagans also prayed toward the Ka’bah a certain number of times each day because they believed that the only way that their god would hear them is if they faced where he was at. It must be noted that the Jews and Eastern Christians faced toward Jerusalem, but that was out of reverence. They never believed that they could not pray elsewhere, and they never set up a number of times that they would pray each day. Muhammad took this religious rite also straight from the pre-Islamic Sabeans.


‘Ibn Jurayi (who lived in the 8th century) wrote:
" He (Mohammed) is a Sabian" (98)

‘Abd al-Rahman ‘ibn Zayd (d798 AD) wrote:
The prophet and his companions are referred to as "these are the Sabians" comparing Mohammed to the Sabians (99)

Rabi’ah ‘ibn ‘Ubbad (who lived at the same time as Mohammed) wrote:
"I saw the prophet when I was a pagan. He was saying to the people, ‘if you want to save yourselves, accept that there is no God but Allah’ At this moment I noticed a man behind him saying ‘he is a sabi.’ When I asked somebody who he was he told me he was ‘Abu Lahab, his uncle." (96)



http://inthenameofallah.org/Sabeans%20OR%20Sabians.html