Question To Muslims

[archangel]

Why should anyone believe what this guy Muhammad had to say.

He went into a cave and received devine messages from Allah???

How do you know it is true?

Coudn't any of us say we went into a cave, conversed with God and then write some things down?

[positive terror]

Why should anyone believe what this guy Muhammad had to say.

He went into a cave and received devine messages from Allah???

How do you know it is true?

Coudn't any of us say we went into a cave, conversed with God and then write some things down?

Praise be to Allaah.

First of all, it is essential to understand that guidance to the true religion of Islam and belief in the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the message he brought comes about only by the help of Allaah, and that we are required to explain this and produce evidence of it.

There is a great deal of clear evidence for the one who seeks to find out the truth about the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), including the following:

Allaah chose him even though he had grown up as an orphan and was illiterate, knowing neither how to read or write. All good qualities and virtues were perfected in him, to the point of ultimate perfection. All these good qualities were combined and firmly established in him, something which no one else can attain except the Prophets whom Allaah protected and guided. This combination of perfect qualities is one of the greatest proofs of the truth of his Prophethood (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

The revelation of Allaah was bestowed upon the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The Angel of Revelation, Jibreel (Gabriel), who is recognized by all the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], came to him, and when he received revelation, there were unusual effects on him that indicated the intensity of the effort involved in receiving the Message of Allaah from Jibreel, upon whom be peace. His Companions witnessed this when he received Revelation, and they believed that the revelation was something that came from an outside source and was beyond his control; it came to him from (Allaah), the Wise and Praiseworthy.

Allaah supported the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with physical miracles, with which he challenged his people. Among the most important of these were the splitting of the moon and the Night Journey to Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem). They were unable to match these miracles, and so they were a decisive, divine testimony to the truth of his Prophethood (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Allaah supported him with miracles and evidence for people of reason and understanding, the greatest of which was the Qur’aan. This was the greatest sign, which contains in its pages miracles of both style and content, which all of mankind cannot match or imitate, even if they gather together for that purpose. This is clear from the statements of the most eloquent of the Arabs, who were completely unable to match it. The Qur’aan was – and centuries later still is, praise be to Allaah – an eternal miracle as is evident in its brilliant style, its information about the Unseen, its fulfilment of the promises of Allaah, the superiority of its laws, and the fact that its rulings are appropriate for every time and place – in addition to the fact that it has such a moving impact on people’s hearts.

The Qur’aan refers to the signs and proofs surrounding the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which testify to his truthfulness. For example, he was free of sin and trivial spitefulness; he grew up illiterate in the Arabian Peninsula, and did not receive any religious knowledge from beyond its borders, nor did he spend time acquiring any religious knowledge. When he reached the age of forty, he brought divine knowledge that none of the earlier or later generations could produce. He also received special protection and care from Allaah, which kept him safe at times of crisis; if it were not for this protection he would most certainly have been doomed to destruction. None of this could have happened except to one who was truly sent from Allaah.

His coming was foretold in the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel), and some of the People of the Book saw that these prophecies applied in totality to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which led them to embrace Islam. There are still passages in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, in the versions that are accepted by the People of the Book, that clearly refer to the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – for example in the Gospel of Barnabas, which is considered by Christians to be the most authentic Gospel.

The Message of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was not unique to him, but was in nature and content similar to the message brought by other Messengers before him. Allaah had sent Prophets and Messengers, such as Moosa (Moses), ‘Eesa (Jesus) and others, to the Children of Israel, and great numbers had believed in them and borne witness to the truth of their Books, which were similar in general terms to the message brought by the Qur’aan. This was eloquent testimony to the truth of the Message with which he was sent, especially as it belonged to the same type of Message to whose truth they had testified.

When Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with the same Message as the Prophets who had come before him, the Qur’aan came to confirm their Books and their Prophethood, and to call people to believe in them. So when the People of the Book disbelieved in him and his Book, it meant that they were disbelieving in their own Books and Messengers. As the Qur’aan contained the same principles as their books, and confirmed them, this meant that it was the least likely to be fabricated or to have come from a source other than Allaah, because all of them came from Allaah, may He be exalted.

In summary, then, the proof of truthfulness is quite clear in this case. The evidence is there both in (historical) reports and on the grounds of common sense. This will cure the ill (i.e., the one who has doubts) and quench the thirst (of the one who longs for knowledge), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… Indeed, there has come to you from Allaah a Light (prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) and a plain Book (the Qur’aan), wherewith Allaah guides all those who seek His Good Pleasure to ways of peace, and He brings them out of darkness by His Will unto light, and guides them to a Straight Way” [al-Maa’idah 5:15-16].

Allaah leaves astray whom He will and guides whom He will, and He is the Most Knowing of Guides.

[revolutionary_jam]

Religion exists to contol you, get out as quickly as possible x

[positive terror]

Religion exists to contol you, get out as quickly as possible x

The Brainwashed versus the Braindead

It is very common for a devout Muslim who believes with certainty in the Islamic belief system and who adheres completely to the Islamic law without compromising with secular society, to be told ‘You have been brainwashed'. A Muslim of course, is one who ‘submits', he follows the way of life known as ‘Islam' which means ‘submission [to the will of Allah]'. Therefore, by definition, a Muslim is not one who can live in a state of compromise. Rather compromise with forces and systems that are contradicting the basis and aim of Islam is heavily condemned in the Quran. For instance, Allah (swt) says, “Therefore obey not the rejectors, who desire that you would compromise that they may compromise…” (al Qalam 68:8-9) Indeed, Allah (swt) made clear in the Quran that the only way of life acceptable is a life of full submission and not of compromise, Allah (swt) says “Verily, the only way of life with Allah is submission” (aali I'mraan 3:19) and “Whoever desires a way of life other than submission, never will it be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be of the losers” (aali I'mraan 3:85) and “O you who believe! Enter into submission completely and follow not the footsteps of Shaytaan [Satan] for he is a clear enemy.” (al Baqarah 2:208)

So it is clear that the term ‘brainwashed' applied to one who is a fundamentalist Muslim, is based upon ignorance of the nature of Islam. A person who claims to believe in Islam but then compromises throughout his life is actually showing that they either have doubts about the basis of Islam, or are totally ignorant of its laws and system or have other misconceptions and errors that make their behaviour unacceptable to Allah. The type of people who declare people to be ‘brainwashed' are usually irreligious people who live a life based upon atheistic and secular principles that are mass manufactured and conveyed through shallow media outlets whose effects upon their consumers are much more suited to the term of ‘brainwashing'. We now list some further reasons why this is an erroneous judgement upon the Islamic fundamentalist:-

• ‘Brainwashed' is a term applied to one who is forced or not given choice. However, Islamic revival in society and in an individual is not based upon force, but is based upon thought and choice. This is because, in reality a belief will only lead to strong actions when the belief is genuine and not imposed. Thus a hypocrite will run away from the battlefield or even more likely, he will make excuses so that he comes nowhere near the battlefield. The Quran made clear the fact that true and effective following of religion is based upon an informed choice and not upon being forced, Allah (swt) says “There is no compulsion in the deen [i.e. in adopting religion]. The right path has become clear from the wrong path…” (al Baqarah 2:256)

• Brainwashing' is applied to someone whose past has been wiped away and now he only understands the recent ‘input' into his brain. As for the convert to Islam or the one who has adopted fundamentalist [i.e. real and genuine] Islam, they very clearly remember their past, but they are now aware of the reality of their past rather than the common illusions and deceptions. They hate their past and hate its motivations. It should be noted that Islam today is not in power anywhere in the world, and those who have adopted fundamentalism can at any point go back to a life which they had, but they do not do so due to choice.

• Further proof that the fundamentalist Muslim is not ‘brainwashed', is the fact that he takes from his past those matters which are acceptable to Islam and he uses them for the sake of Islam and for the common good. This is also supported by the following hadeeth [saying of the prophet Muhammad (saw) Abu Hurayrah reported that the Prophet (saw) said “Men are like mines of gold and silver. The best of you in the days of ignorance are the best of you in Islam when they have understanding” (collected by MUSLIM)

• ‘Brainwashing' is a term applied to those who act without rationality. But the foundations of the Islamic belief are based upon sound rational thought. The proofs for the existence of a Creator, the proofs of His Oneness and the rationality of the need for Messengers [prophets] and the proofs for the authenticity of the Quran are all rationally proven. The Quran elaborates upon the rational proofs for those foundations of belief and makes rational belief a condition for their validity. The one who does not use his intellect is heavily condemned in the Quran and Allah (swt) says that not using the intellect leads to Hell. Allah (swt) says “Verily, the worst of creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb, those who don't use their intellects.” (al Anfaal 8:22) and “And they will say ‘Had we but listened or used our intellects, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire'” (al Mulk 67:10)

• The brainwashed is he who follows the majority without the majority position being based upon rationality, proof and benefit. The fundamentalist Muslims find themselves in the minority as they choose principles of intelligence, coherent thought and sound knowledge when deciding the path to follow. This is opposed to those who consider that democracy is the best solution to reach a solution for any matter, i.e. that decisions are made upon where the majority of people desire. This is indeed an idiotic and brainwashed scale of decision making. How does something become correct because a majority support it? And what type of decisions are made by a majority of people who spend their time filling their brains with quiz shows, fantasy movies, soap operas and trivial pursuits? Indeed, the whole concept of calling for democracy and seeing it synonymous with goodness is a result of brainwashing repetition. Because people always here a matter (such as democracy) being associated with good, they take it as so without question. And does that ‘rule by the people, for the people' exist in any place? No, we see it is only an illusion, in every place people have almost no say in the macro political and economic decisions which effect their lives. At most, people have an elected dictatorship, a choice to vote for a small group of almost identical political parties, which legislate in the interests of the few at the expense of the majority. Every, so called ‘representative' in reality controlled by party whips and private financial interests as well as personal ambitions. No fixed accountability exists as there is no fixed law, but only constant reforms, exceptions and amendments in order to meet elite (minority) economic interests. Let us look at a country such as the USA, a country which despite its claims to uphold freedom, is busy strolling the world imposing its system by the force of bombs and snatching people from foreign sovereign (or puppet dictatorship) nations and putting them in torture camps without evidence and without trial. And it is also the USA where you must be a multi millionaire in order to be elected president in the first place, and even then needing to force through a candidate by a decision of the Supreme court! Indeed, the majority of the people may call for democracy and that is indeed a result of their brainwashing. As for Islam, it does not tell us to follow the majority but instead commands following that which is correct, and it warns about blind following of the majority. Allah (swt) says “ “And if you obey most of those on the earth, they will mislead you far away from the path of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture and they do nothing but lie.” (al Ana'm 6:116) and “… but most men know not.” (Yusuf 12:40) and “And even if We had sent unto them angels and the dead had spoken unto them and We had gathered together all things before their very eyes, they would not have believed, unless Allah willed, but most of them are ignorant” (al Ana'm 6:111)

• The brainwashed is he who follows man-made law. Man-made law is the basis which allows the dictatorship of the few over the vast majority and at the expense of the vast majority. There can only be one law for the collective situation, so the question is what is better for people, Divine Law or man-made Law? Divine Law is from the One who Knows All and is Aware of all things and Knows the nature of those whom He has created. As for man-made law, that is made by those who are weak in intellect, limited in knowledge and influenced by their environment and their prejudices. One who does not believe in accountability in the next life will pursue his life's affairs based upon fulfilling his instincts and desires.

• The brainwashed is he who considers himself free. People wrongly think they live in free societies. How are you free if you break a man-made law and are punished? People are proud to break away from Divine Law and consider themselves free. In reality man-made laws are so many and changing so much that people regularly are penalised for breaking the law and are unaware. With Divine Law there is a fixed reference point by which the rulers can be accounted. And with Divine Law, the people are not free to change it to suit their prejudices and desires. In man-made law the limited freedom is for the lawmakers and their covert accomplices in the prison states that they have enforced globally. The world is in need of Divine Guidance and Divine Justice and Law, not anarchy of the masses, nor the selfish anarchy of multi-national corporations, banks and ruling elites who are immune even from the accountability in the chaotic elite serving concentration-camp they call ‘freedom and democracy.'

• The brainwashed is he who follows the mainstream media. Where do most people get their views from? They get it from mainstream education and mainstream media, that is, the mass monopolised corporate media. People follow the trends they set and the opinions they promote and the culture they spread, but do people not question the ownership of the media and the ideology and objectives of those who own it? Do they not question the relationships between the media and the rulers? Between the multinational corporations and international bankers and the media? Brainwashed is the one who thinks we have an independent and free media, the media is a tool in the hands of the established order to control the masses who consume the repeated messages and identical media stories. How is it that all outlets have the same headlines and the same commentary if they are free and independent? Why is it so difficult to start independent media channels? A journalist exposes the lies of the British Government in promoting the mass murder in Iraq and he is brought before the courts in a public inquiry.

• The brainwashed is he who follows ‘fashion.' The brainwashed are those who continue to spend vast amounts on those goods because they carry a label of ‘value' while such companies are making 1000% profit or more than the price they paid for such items in the foreign slave camps known as ‘cheap labour'. Brainwashed is he who follows the latest styles being mass advertised and manufactured, not because it is a fashion of the people but because a decision was taken by an oligarchy of manufacturers to introduce a new style and propagate it through ‘critics' and ‘experts' and foolish adverts that imply you will gain women, wealth and success by dressing in the latest pre-planned ‘fashion'.

• The brainwashed is he who takes body-destroying, accident-causing, mind-repressants as entertainment. Alcohol, a multi-trillion dollar industry which fills the banks of the manufacturers and establishment through astronomical taxes while at the same time achieving the goal of escapism for the masses. Turning the rabble into animals and thugs, who can easily be manipulated and controlled and who will let off their frustrations through the medium of drunkenness, rioting, prostitution and promiscuity, interacting with others without accountability or responsibility. The ideal tool to make a people stupid while stealing their money. On top of that, the money made due to post alcoholic crime, disorder and accidents for the international banksters (i.e. gangster bankers) and their insurance companies and lawyers etc is another reason why the only ones who engage in this low life activity are the brainwashed.

• The brainwashed is he who gambles. The brainwashed is he who after all his excessive underpaid work and misery of over taxation and high prices due to fluctuations in bank manipulated paper money starts to entertain the hope he will become rich and starts to gamble or play the government introduced national lottery. A chance of millions to one of the jackpot he continues to spend the little he has in a desire to make a gain without a relevant effort. The result, he and his family are poorer because he was brainwashed.

• Brainwashed is not he who opposes the man-made system of oppression but brainwashed is he who goes along with a system which does nothing for himself but everything for a few corporate criminals. Brainwashed is the one who was indoctrinated by a system that told us we came from monkeys and are nothing more than animals who engaged in trial and error and so have progressed. Brainwashed is he who has been commanded by the system not to question the ideology and principles of the government which dominates him and which he dies for because he considers it a duty to his ‘country' to fight against those who were born in another place. Brainwashed is not he who fights for the justice of Divine Law, but brainwashed is he who fights others due to the threat of imaginary weapons of mass destruction, while the only ones to use such weapons and sell them on a mass scale are those whom he fights for. Brainwashed is he who fights to remove one dictatorship in order to replace it with another. Brainwashed is he who fights for the sake of following orders of misguided men while disregarding his own conscience, religion and intellect…..that is indeed the one who is brainwashed.

• Islam commands us to remember death and to make preparation for it as it is indeed a matter that is sure to come. Allah (swt) says “Everyone shall taste death. And only of the Day of Resurrection shall you be paid your wages in full. And whoever is removed far away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise , he indeed is successful. The life of this world is only the enjoyment of deception” (aali I'mraan 3:185) and it is reported by Ibn U'mar that the Prophet (saw) was asked who is the wisest and the Prophet (saw) replied “The one who remembers death the most and prepares for it most…” (IBN MAAJAH) The brainwashed is he who ignores preparing for the inevitable and hides and escapes from the reality in society's trivial pursuits and pastimes. Allah (swt) says “Closer to mankind comes their reckoning yet they heed not and turn away” (al Anbiyaa' 21:1) and “Or did the people of the townships feel secure against the coming of Our punishment in the forenoon while they play?” (al A'raaf 7:98) and “Mutual rivalry for piling up worldy things diverts you, until you visit the graves” (at Takaathur 102:1-2) Finally, we say that if people will not cease to declare Islamic fundamentalist (real Muslims) to be brainwashed, then we accept that Islam does wash our brain of ignorance, idolatry, oppression and man-made exploitation and corruption. It is better to have a brain that is washed clean from filth than to have one still polluted and rotten. The masses look down on those they consider ‘brainwashed' but that is due to the masses being in a state we call ‘brain-dead.' We therefore invite all to study Islam further from uncompromising Muslim sources rather than take the distortions and misrepresentations from those who hate the positive change it will bring and those who have sold their religion for a miserable price.

[archangel]

Hearsay and speculation. What you just wrote gives me not definitive factual HARD evidence.

You said this was all phophecised in the Torah?
You do Realize that Torah is talking about an extra-terrestrial when they say Yaweh. Yaweh is an alien. Not the being who created the Universe.

So do Muslims worship Aliens too?? or is their God completely different than the God of the Torah.

[revolution 9]

more copy and paste, oh joy

[positive terror]

Hearsay and speculation. What you just wrote gives me not definitive factual HARD evidence.

You said this was all phophecised in the Torah?
You do Realize that Torah is talking about an extra-terrestrial when they say Yaweh. Yaweh is an alien. Not the being who created the Universe.

So do Muslims worship Aliens too?? or is their God completely different than the God of the Torah.

If want to know WHO Muslims worship then read this thread:

http://davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8343

[archangel]

If want to know WHO Muslims worship then read this thread:

http://davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8343

I understand that Muslims say allah is the supreme God, the only REAL god. The devine being who created the The universe.

However, The Torah, is about an exterestrial Aliens, either Yaweh, or some other Alien. The Jews Worship Alien/s

So it seems contradicting that a book who recogizes an alien as "GOD" is going to prohecise about ALLAH, the creator of the universe.

Theres an extreme conflict of interest right there.

[positive terror]

I understand that Muslims say allah is the supreme God, the only REAL god. The devine being who created the The universe.

However, The Torah, is about an exterestrial Aliens, either Yaweh, or some other Alien. The Jews Worship Alien/s

So it seems contradicting that a book who recogizes an alien as "GOD" is going to prohecise about ALLAH, the creator of the universe.

Theres an extreme conflict of interest right there.

Dear archangel, I dont believe that YHWH is an allien, and that jews worship deliberately an alien. Thats only a poor theory, nobody believes that my friend.

[archangel]

Dear archangel, I dont believe that YHWH is an allien, and that jews worship deliberately an alien. Thats only a poor theory, nobody believes that my friend.

are you being Serious? who doesn't believe that? Muslims?

Have you ever read about the Sumerian Tablets? Yaweh is an alien. These events date back to ancient egypt. The story moses receiving devine law from God also date back to Egypt, But this actually occurred on Mt. Horeb. The temple that this happened on is still there. There is no recored evidence that Moses ever existed outside of the Jewish Relgion. He is fake. The fact that the stories of Yaweh/God of the Judea/Christian bible date back to sumerian/egytian times where they speak of extra-terrestrials is undeniable evidence. the stories of Genesis and alot of the the old testament are just abbreviated, manipulated stories that date back to ancient civilizatons who speak of a race of Gods who came to earth called the Anunaki. I have a few friends who are Masons, they are not out to lie to me, and they all agree on that fact and have stated it to me.

So to say that Yahweh is the same God as Allah is not true, If you definition of Allah is the 'creator of the universe'.

You say that you worship the the "creator of the universe" but then speak about a book that discusses aliens...

its very confusing to say the least.

[positive terror]

are you being Serious? who doesn't believe that? Muslims?

Have you ever read about the Sumerian Tablets? Yaweh is an alien. These events date back to ancient egypt. The story moses receiving devine law from God also date back to Egypt, But this actually occurred on Mt. Horeb. The temple that this happened on is still there. There is no recored evidence that Moses ever existed outside of the Jewish Relgion. He is fake. The fact that the stories of Yaweh/God of the Judea/Christian bible date back to sumerian/egytian times where they speak of extra-terrestrials is undeniable evidence. the stories of Genesis and alot of the the old testament are just abbreviated, manipulated stories that date back to ancient civilizatons who speak of a race of Gods who came to earth called the Anunaki. I have a few friends who are Masons, they are not out to lie to me, and they all agree on that fact and have stated it to me.

So to say that Yahweh is the same God as Allah is not true, If you definition of Allah is the 'creator of the universe'.

You say that you worship the the "creator of the universe" but then speak about a book that discusses aliens...

its very confusing to say the least.

I believe in Moses as a Messenger in his time, and I believe in the ORIGINIAL Torah (now is corrupted like the bible).....I mean the message of Moses was the same as Muhhamad...Worship the Creator of the Universe...and not worship the eighth passenger...

A brief look at Moosa (peace be upon him)

Moosa = Moses
· Allaah sent revelation to Moosa ibn ‘Imraan (peace be upon him) and sent him to the Children of Israel to call them to worship Allaah alone, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And indeed We sent Moosa (Moses) with Our Ayaat (signs, proofs, and evidences) (saying): “Bring out your people from darkness into light, and remind them of the annals of Allaah”

[Ibraaheem 14:5]

· And Allaah sent Haaroon the brother of Moosa as a support to Moosa when He wanted to send him to Pharaoh, to call him to worship Allaah. This was in response to the request of Moosa:

“And We granted him his brother Haaroon (Aaron), (also) a Prophet, out of Our Mercy”[Maryam 19:53]

· At that time, the Children of Israel were in Egypt, under the rule of Pharaoh, who had enslaved and humiliated them. He used to let their women live but he killed their sons:

“…weakening (oppressing) a group (i.e. Children of Israel) among them: killing their sons, and letting their females live. Verily, he was of the Mufsidoon (i.e. those who commit great sins and crimes, oppressors, tyrants”[al-Qasas 28:4]

· Moosa was born in Egypt, and Allaah willed that he should be brought up in the house of Pharaoh… So his mother put him in a box which she threw into the river, and it was picked up by the family of Pharaoh. His wife Aasiyah rejoiced over him and forbade them to kill him… When he grew up and attained his full strength, Allaah gave him wisdom (Prophethood, right judgement of affairs) and knowledge (of the religion of his forefathers, i.e., Islamic monotheism). (cf. al-Qasas 28:14)

· One day a man from among the Children of Israel sought Moosa’s help against his enemy. Moosa struck him with his fist and killed him (cf. al-Qasas 28:15). Then Moosa regretted it, and sought the forgiveness of his Lord, and He forgave him. Then he became afraid, looking about in the city (waiting to see the result of his crime of killing) (cf. al-Qasas 28:18). The next day, Moosa found that man fighting another enemy. He asked Moosa to help him again, and Moosa became angry with him. The man thought that he was going to kill him, so he said to him:

“ ‘Is it your intention to kill me as you killed a man yesterday?””

[al-Qasas 28:19]

· That enemy told the people of Pharaoh about that, and they started to look for him in order to kill him. A righteous man came and told Moosa what the people were plotting against him. He advised him to leave Egypt:

“So he escaped from there, looking about in a state of fear. He said: ‘My Lord! Save me from the people who are Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers)!’”[al-Qasas 28:21]

· Moosa headed for the land of Madyan (Midian), where he married the daughter of a noble shaykh in return for working for him for eight years. When that time was over, Moosa travelled with his family towards Egypt. When he came to al-Toor (Mount Sinai), Allaah wanted to single him out, to honour him with Prophethood and to speak with him. Moosa lost his way, then he saw a fire…

“… he said to his family: ‘Wait! Verily, I have seen a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance at the fire.’

And when he came to it (the fire), he was called by name: ‘O Moosa (Moses)!

Verily, I am your Lord! So take off your shoes; you are in the sacred valley, Tuwa.

And I have chosen you. So listen to that which will be revealed (to you).

Verily, I am Allaah! Laa ilaaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I), so worship Me, and perform As‑Salaah (Iqaamat‑as‑Salaah) for My remembrance.

Verily, the Hour is coming and I am almost hiding it that every person may be rewarded for that which he strives”[Ta-Ha 20:10-15]

· Then Allaah showed him some of the miracles. He commanded him to throw his stick on the ground, and it turned into a snake; then to put his hand into his garment, and it came out white. Then He told him to go with these two miracles to Pharaoh, so that he might accept admonition or fear Allaah, for he had transgressed all bounds in oppression and corruption. And He sent with Moosa his brother Haaroon. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“ ‘Go, both of you, to Fir‘awn (Pharaoh), verily, he has transgressed (all bounds in disbelief and disobedience and behaved as an arrogant and as a tyrant).

And speak to him mildly, perhaps he may accept admonition or fear (Allaah).’

They said: ‘Our Lord! Verily, we fear lest he should hasten to punish us or lest he should transgress (all bounds against us).’

He (Allaah) said: ‘Fear not, verily, I am with you both, hearing and seeing.

So go you both to him, and say: “Verily, we are Messengers of your Lord, so let the Children of Israel go with us, and torment them not; indeed, we have come with a sign from your Lord! And peace will be upon him who follows the guidance!”’”[Ta-Ha 20:43-47]

· Moosa and Haaroon (peace be upon them) went to Pharaoh and conveyed the message to him. Pharaoh asked Moosa:

“Fir‘awn (Pharaoh) said: ‘And what is the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)?’

Moosa (Moses) said: ‘The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, if you seek to be convinced with certainty’”[al-Shu’araa’ 26:23-24]

· Then Pharaoh asked Moosa for a sign to prove that he was speaking the truth:

“[Fir‘awn (Pharaoh)] said: ‘If you have come with a sign, show it forth, if you are one of those who tell the truth.’

Then [Moosa (Moses)] threw his stick and behold! it was a serpent, manifest!

And he drew out his hand, and behold! it was white (with radiance) for the beholders”[al-A’raaf 7:106-108]

· When Pharaoh and his people saw that, they accused Moosa of sorcery. They brought the sorcerers together and offered them a great reward. Then they gathered the people together on a feast day. The sorcerers threw down their sticks and ropes,

“…So when they threw, they bewitched the eyes of the people, and struck terror into them, and they displayed a great magic”[al-A’raaf 7:116]

· Then Allaah supported Moosa against the sorcerers and exposed the falsehood of their plots. Then the sorcerers believed in the Lord of the Worlds:

“And We revealed to Moosa (Moses) (saying): ‘Throw your stick,’ and behold! It swallowed up straight away all the falsehood which they showed.

Thus truth was confirmed, and all that they did was made of no effect.

So they were defeated there and returned disgraced.

And the sorcerers fell down prostrate.

They said: ‘We believe in the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists).

The Lord of Moosa (Moses) and Haaroon (Aaron)’”[al-A’raaf 7:117-122]

· When the sorcerers believed in Allaah, Pharaoh cut off their hands and feet on opposite sides and crucified them. But they bore that with patience and paid no heed to his threats, until they met Allaah as Muslims. Then the chiefs indicated that Moosa and his people should be killed, lest they spread corruption in the land. So they killed their sons, and let their women live. Moosa urged the Children of Israel to have patience. Then Pharaoh could no longer bear to see Moosa , so he decided to kill him:

“Fir’awn (Pharaoh) said: ‘Leave me to kill Moosa (Moses), and let him call his Lord (to stop me from killing him)! I fear that he may change your religion, or that he may cause mischief to appear in the land!’”[Ghaafir 40:26]

· Whilst they were thinking of killing Moosa, chivalry caused a believing man from among the family of Pharaoh, who was concealing his faith, to defend Moosa. He said, “If he is lying, he cannot harm us, and if he is telling the truth, then some of that of which he is warning you will befall you.” This man continued to advise Pharaoh and his people, but they did not respond to him:

“… Fir‘awn (Pharaoh) said: ‘I show you only that which I see (correct), and I guide you only to the path of right policy!’”[Ghaafir 40:29]

· Moosa continued to call Pharaoh and his people, preaching in a good manner, but it only made them more arrogant in the land and caused them to oppress and persecute the believers even more. So Moosa prayed against them, and Allaah punished them with drought, famine, and failure of the harvest, that they might receive admonition. But they did not submit, rather they persisted in their evil deeds and transgression. So Allaah punished them with other kinds of afflictions, so that they might return to their senses:

“They said [to Moosa (Moses)]: ‘Whatever Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) you may bring to us, to work therewith your sorcery on us, we shall never believe in you.’

So We sent on them: the flood, the locusts, the lice, the frogs, and the blood (as a succession of) manifest signs, yet they remained arrogant, and they were of those people who were Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and sinners)’”[al-A’raaf 7:132-133]

· When the transgression of Pharaoh intensified, there came the divine command to seek a way out. Allaah commanded Moosa to leave Egypt with the Children of Israel, in secret. When Pharaoh found out, he gathered a great army to catch up with Moosa and his people before they reached Palestine. Pharaoh and his troops set out, leaving behind them gardens and wealth. They caught up with Moosa and his people at sunrise, on the shores of the Red Sea. Allaah saved Moosa and his people, and drowned Pharaoh and his troops, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We revealed to Moosa (Moses), saying: ‘Depart by night with My slaves, verily, you will be pursued.’

Then Fir‘awn (Pharaoh) sent callers to (all) the cities.

(Saying): ‘Verily, these indeed are but a small band.

And verily, they have done what has enraged us.

But we are a host all assembled, amply forewarned.’

So, We expelled them from gardens and springs,

Treasures, and every kind of honourable place.

Thus [We turned them (Pharaoh’s people) out] and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit them.

So they pursued them at sunrise.

And when the two hosts saw each other, the companions of Moosa (Moses) said: ‘We are sure to be overtaken.’

[Moosa (Moses)] said: ‘Nay, verily, with me is my Lord. He will guide me.’

Then We revealed to Moosa (Moses) (saying): ‘Strike the sea with your stick.’ And it parted, and each separate part (of that sea water) became like a huge mountain.

Then We brought near the others [Fir‘awn’s (Pharaoh’s) party] to that place.

And We saved Moosa (Moses) and all those with him.

Then We drowned the others.

Verily, in this is indeed a sign (or a proof), yet most of them are not believers.

And verily, your Lord, He is truly, the All‑Mighty, the Most Merciful”[al-Shu’araa’ 26:52-68]

· Thus Pharaoh and his troops were destroyed. When he was drowning, he believed, but that was of no benefit to him. Allaah preserved his body to be a lesson to those who came after him. The punishment of Pharaoh’s family in this world was drowning in the sea, and in the Hereafter, theirs is a painful torment:

“…while an evil torment encompassed Fir‘awn’s (Pharaoh) people.

The Fire, they are exposed to it, morning and afternoon. And on the Day when the Hour will be established (it will be said to the angels): ‘Cause Fir‘awn’s (Pharaoh) people to enter the severest torment!’”[Ghaafir 40:45-46]

· The Children of Israel witnessed the miracles of Moosa, the last of which was their being saved and the destruction of their enemy. These miracles were sufficient to eradicate the last traces of idolatry from their hearts, but they still returned to it sometimes, and Moosa was faced with great difficulties in bringing them back to the worship of Allaah alone. For example:

When they had crossed the sea, they passed by some people who worshipped idols. They asked Moosa to give them an idol which they could worship like those people did. Moosa said to them:

“ ‘Verily, you are a people who know not (the Majesty and Greatness of Allaah and what is obligatory upon you, i.e. to worship none but Allaah Alone, the One and the Only God of all that exists).’

[Moosa (Moses) added:] ‘Verily, these people will be destroyed for that which they are engaged in (idols, worship). And all that they are doing is in vain.’

He said: ‘Shall I seek for you an ilaah (a god) other than Allaah, while He has given you superiority over the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn of your time)?’”[al-A’raaf 7:138-140]

The Children of Israel were headed towards the Holy Land, and on the way they suffered from thirst. They complained to Moosa, who prayed to his Lord and He gave them water:

“We revealed to Moosa (Moses) when his people asked him for water (saying): ‘Strike the stone with your stick’, and there gushed forth out of it twelve springs, each group knew its own place for water”[al-A’raaf 7:160]

On their journey, they complained about the intense heat of the sun, and the lack of food. So Moosa prayed to his Lord and He shaded them with clouds, and provided them with good things (to eat), but they did not appreciate that, and they demanded something else.

“We shaded them with the clouds and sent down upon them Al‑Manna and the quail (saying): ‘Eat of the good things with which We have provided you.’ They harmed Us not but they used to harm themselves”[al-A’raaf 7:160]

Then they complained and said:

“ ‘We cannot endure one kind of food. So invoke your Lord for us to bring forth for us of what the earth grows, its herbs, its cucumbers, its Foom (wheat or garlic), its lentils and its onions””

[al-Baqarah 2:61]

Allaah had promised Moosa that He would send down to him a Book containing commands and prohibitions for the Children of Israel. When Pharaoh was destroyed, Moosa asked Allaah his Lord for that Book. Allaah commanded him to fast for forty days. He appointed his brother Haaroon as his deputy to be in charge of his people, and he fasted for those days. Then Allaah revealed the Tawraat (Torah) to him at the mountain of al-Toor (Sinai), in which there were lessons and explanations of all things. When he came back to his people, he found them worshipping the calf, which al-Saamiri had made for them from their jewellery and had told them, “This is your god and the god of Moosa.”

“Then he took out (of the fire) for them (a statue of) a calf which seemed to low. They said: ‘This is your ilaah (god), and the ilaah (god) of Moosa (Moses), but he [Moosa (Moses)] has forgotten (his god).’

Did they not see that it could not return them a word (for answer), and that it had no power either to harm them or to do them good?

And Haaroon (Aaron) indeed had said to them beforehand: ‘O my people! You are being tried in this, and verily, your Lord is (Allaah) the Most Gracious, so follow me and obey my order.’

They said: ‘We will not stop worshipping it (i.e. the calf), until Moosa (Moses) returns to us’”[Ta-Ha 20:88-91]

When Moosa came, he got angry with them and rebuked them, and explained the truth to them. Then he burned the calf, and threw it into the sea. He punished al-Saamiri and he subsequently felt pain from anything he touched.

The Children of Israel regretted having worshipped the calf. Moosa chose from among them seventy men and took them to the Mountain (al-Toor/Sinai) to worship Allaah and show their regret for what they had done. There Allaah spoke to Moosa, but some of them did not believe that Allaah was the One who had spoken to Moosa. So they disobeyed him and said, Show us Allaah plainly.

“And (remember) when you said: ‘O Moosa (Moses)! We shall never believe in you until we see Allaah plainly.’ But you were seized with a thunderbolt (lightning) while you were looking.

Then We raised you up after your death, so that you might be grateful”[al-Baqarah 2:55-56]

When Moosa came back to the Children of Israel with the Tawraat, they refused to accept it and complained about its rulings. So he threatened them, then they accepted it, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (O Children of Israel, remember) when We took your covenant and We raised above you the Mount (saying): ‘Hold fast to that which We have given you, and remember that which is therein so that you may become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious).

Then after that you turned away. Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of Allaah upon you, indeed you would have been among the losers”[al-Baqarah 2:63-64]

Then Moosa commanded the Children of Israel to go with him to the Holy Land in Palestine, so they went with him, then they became afraid of its powerful inhabitants, so they disobeyed Moosa and rebelled against him:

“They said: ‘O Moosa (Moses)! We shall never enter it as long as they are there. So go you and your Lord and fight you two, we are sitting right here’”[al-Maa'idah 5:24]

So Moosa prayed against them, and Allaah answered his prayer. He told him that the Holy Land was forbidden to them, and they would wander in the land for forty years, so he should not grieve over them:

“He [Moosa (Moses)] said: ‘O my Lord! I have power only over myself and my brother, so separate us from the people who are the Faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient to Allaah)!’

(Allaah) said: ‘Therefore it (this holy land) is forbidden to them for forty years; in distraction they will wander through the land. So be not sorrowful over the people who are the Faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient to Allaah)’[al-Maa'idah 5:25-26]

· Moosa bore with patience the many complaints of the Children of Israel. During that period of wandering, Haaroon died, then Moosa died, and most of them also died. When that time came to an end, Yoosha’ ibn Noon (Joshua the son of Nun) led them into the Holy Land and besieged it until he conquered it. He commanded them to enter the land prostrating, but they did not obey him, and entered it on their backsides.

· Allaah bestowed great blessings upon the Children of Israel. He saved them from Pharaoh, and provided them with good things to eat. He made Prophets and kings from among them, and favoured them above all other people, but they were ungrateful for those blessings and did not appreciate them:

“And (remember) when Moosa (Moses) said to his people: ‘O my people! Remember the Favour of Allaah to you: when He made Prophets among you, made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn, in the past)’”[al-Maa’idah 5:20]

· The Jews say and do evil things which bring upon them the wrath and anger of Allaah.

· They accused Allaah of being stingy:

“The Jews say: ‘Allaah’s Hand is tied up (i.e. He does not give and spend of His Bounty).’ Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends (of His Bounty) as He wills”

[al-Maa'idah 5:64]

· By virtue of this serious lie, they became disbelievers:

“Indeed, Allaah has heard the statement of those (Jews) who say: ‘Truly, Allaah is poor and we are rich!’”[Aal ‘Imraan 3:181]

· They attributed a son to Allaah; Allaah’s curse be upon them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzayr (Ezra) is the son of Allaah…”[al-Tawbah 9:30]

· When the Tawraat reached them, most of them disbelieved in its rulings. They turned away from the path of Allaah, and regarded wrongdoing as permissible, so Allaah punished them for their sins. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“For the wrongdoing of the Jews, We made unlawful for them certain good foods which had been lawful for them — and for their hindering many from Allaah’s Way;

And their taking of Riba (usury) though they were forbidden from taking it and their devouring of men’s substance wrongfully (bribery). And We have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful torment”[al-Nisaa’ 4:61]

· Among their lies is their claim that they are the sons and the beloved of Allaah:

“And (both) the Jews and the Christians say: ‘We are the children of Allaah and His loved ones.’ Say: ‘Why then does He punish you for your sins?’ Nay, you are but human beings of those He has created”[al-Maa'idah 5:18]

· And among their lies is the following:

“And they say, ‘None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.’ These are their own desires. Say (O Muhammad), ‘Produce your proof if you are truthful’”[al-Baqarah 2:111]

· And among their fabrications is the following:

“And they (Jews) say, ‘The Fire (i.e. Hell-fire on the Day of Resurrection) shall not touch us but for a few numbered days.’ Say (O Muhammad to them): ‘Have you taken a covenant from Allaah, so that Allaah will not break His Covenant? Or is it that you say of Allaah what you know not?’”[al-Baqarah 2:80]

· An example of their plots and betrayal is the way in which they distorted their Book, the Tawraat:

“Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places…”[al-Nisaa’ 4:46]

· Among their crimes are their disbelief in the signs of Allaah and their killing the Prophets unlawfully, so Allaah will punish them for their sins. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And they were covered with humiliation and misery, and they drew on themselves the Wrath of Allaah. That was because they used to disbelieve the Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations etc.) of Allaah and killed the Prophets wrongfully. That was because they disobeyed and used to transgress the bounds (in their disobedience to Allaah, i.e. commit crimes and sins)”[al-Baqarah 2:61]

· Because the Jews have committed so many wrongful actions and evil deeds, fabricated so many lies and spread so much corruption on earth, Allaah has created hatred and enmity among them, and they will never have lasting power until the Day of Resurrection:

“We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allaah extinguished it; and they (ever) strive to make mischief on the earth. And Allaah does not like the Mufsidoon (mischief‑makers)”[al-Maa'idah 5:64]

· The Jews are weak and divided, each of them with different desires:

“They fight not against you even together, except in fortified townships, or from behind walls. Their enmity among themselves is very great. You would think they were united, but their hearts are divided. That is because they are a people who understand not”[al-Hashr 59:14]

· The Jews are the most hostile of all people towards those who believe. Because of their transgression and corruption, the Jews hate death because they fear what comes after death. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘O you Jews! If you pretend that you are friends of Allaah, to the exclusion of (all) other mankind, then long for death if you are truthful.’

But they will never long for it (death), because of what (deeds) their hands have sent before them! And Allaah knows well the Zaalimoon (polytheists, wrongdoers, disbelievers)’”[al-Jumu’ah 62:6-7]

· The Jews persisted in their corruption, transgression and deviation. Allaah sent many Prophets and Messengers to the Children of Israel, to bring them back to the Straight Path, and some of them believed in them and some disbelieved… until Allaah sent ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace be upon him) to them.

[archangel]

Can we please discuss this without you copying and pasting things. I want to just hear what you personally have to say.

You say you believe in the Original Torah but you think it is corrupted?
Since you believe it is corrupted, then why do you use it as source of information?

Where do these stories of the Torah orginate from?
Where are the oldest records of them?

If someone found 6,000 year old tablets written in a language no one even uses anymore that were similar to the stories of the old testament, would you think these were corrupted to?

Who corrupted the Torah and when did they do this?

if you believe all other relgious books used by main stream religion are corrupt, how can you be sure that yours is not corrupted either.

Please do not use any bible/Quraan verses, Just speak from your heart and what you think.

[soglad]

Please do not use any bible/Quraan verses, Just speak from your heart and what you think.

Nah, he can't do that. He has a book to answer all his questions and form his opinions for him. It's sad....he's a really nice guy and has so much thought potential! :(




Love & Peace!

Soglad

[archangel]

BUMP for PT

[mr_moon]

To live your Life by a set of 'Laws' created by someone else, no matter WHAT the Religion / Belief, is limiting your Reality to a set of constructs designed to keep us seperated.

We shouldn't be seperate- we should be a Unified Human Populace with Love, Peace and Unity as our Conscious Act.

Religion is Division and Division is Divided-Vision.

I hope that one day people become aware of how Religion is merely there to keep us Divided both Internally and Externally and keeps us in a state of DUALITY... DUAL-REALITY.

Much Love,

Jay
xxx

[positive terror]

BUMP for PT

How I will speak with my opinion if I don't base myself on prouves ?

[abrilliantone]

If you want to belive in some "god" :rolleyes: then by all means please be my guest. All of the major world religions are nothing more then the worship of the planets and stars. Christianity is nothing more then the worship of the "Sun". That's why their holy day is on "Sunday". Judiasm is nothing more then the worship of the planet "Saturn". That's why their holy day is on "Saturday". Islam is nothing more then the worship of the planet "Venus". That's why their holy day is on "Friday" I'm not trying to offend any one here but please go look it up for yourshelves. Religion does what it is meant to do CONTROL YOU :eek: through the use of Fear and Guilt. Every last one of them, not one of them is safe from corruption. If Anything! talks about " I'm down here and the Supreme Being is up there".:rolleyes: Then that is division which keeps you seperated from "Knowing" that You Are Infinite Oneness, that You Are Everything and Everything is You. These polarities keep us from truly "Knowing" who we really are. And nothing has helped that out more then religions.

[archangel]

Because the quetions I'm asking, the answers can't be found in the Quran.

Here is what I asked:

1 Since you believe the Torah is corrupted, then why do you use it as source of information?

2 Where do you believe the stories of the Torah orginate from?
Where are the oldest records of them?

3 If someone found 6,000 year old tablets written in a language no one even uses anymore that were similar to the stories of the old testament, would you think these were corrupted to?

4 Who corrupted the Torah and when did they do this?

5 if you believe all other relgious books used by main stream religion are corrupt, how can you be sure that yours is not corrupted either.

[spiraltrance]

Coudn't any of us say we went into a cave, conversed with God and then write some things down?

Yes and chances are if you went into a cave or secluded yourself for a few months/years you will eventualy converse with the divine though the organised religions don't want you to know this.

I once had an encounter with God and he spoke to me. Never once did he say prayer 5 times a day, goto the church, temple or mosque. He didn't even give orders and commandments about how to or not to live.

He did explain his relationship to me. And with that info came some earth shattering ramifications about the nature of reality, particularly the illusionary nature of time. I mean this was cosmic, so out there it blew my head and destroyed just about every accepted rational foundation of what the universe is.

Bear in mind when I say God, I don't mean some guy who sits up there in the clouds. The 'image' of God promoted by mainstream religion isn't very accurate, in fact pretty false.

[revolution 9]

Give the guy some time, he has to look up the answers on a website so he can copy and paste them to us.

[kasalt]

Yes and chances are if you went into a cave or secluded yourself for a few months/years you will eventualy converse with the divine though the organised religions don't want you to know this.

I once had an encounter with God and he spoke to me. Never once did he say prayer 5 times a day, goto the church, temple or mosque. He didn't even give orders and commandments about how to or not to live.

He did explain his relationship to me. And with that info came some earth shattering ramifications about the nature of reality, particularly the illusionary nature of time. I mean this was cosmic, so out there it blew my head and destroyed just about every accepted rational foundation of what the universe is.

Bear in mind when I say God, I don't mean some guy who sits up there in the clouds. The 'image' of God promoted by mainstream religion isn't very accurate, in fact pretty false.

Care to go into more detail on this???

[positive terror]

Because the quetions I'm asking, the answers can't be found in the Quran.

Here is what I asked:

1 Since you believe the Torah is corrupted, then why do you use it as source of information?

2 Where do you believe the stories of the Torah orginate from?
Where are the oldest records of them?

3 If someone found 6,000 year old tablets written in a language no one even uses anymore that were similar to the stories of the old testament, would you think these were corrupted to?

4 Who corrupted the Torah and when did they do this?

5 if you believe all other relgious books used by main stream religion are corrupt, how can you be sure that yours is not corrupted either.

Another great book to answering your question (Very good questions by the way):

Since you believe the Torah is corrupted, then why do you use it as source of information?
I dont use the torah to worship Allah, but you can use it to supplement an information. The torah is falsified, but not totally, for what is still something true in her, although it is very little, sincerely, I don't need the torah for since I have Koran, but if we want to add knowledge and to have complete studies the torah and the Bible they would be always a source, For their divine origin.

Where do you believe the stories of the Torah orginate from?
Where are the oldest records of them?

All the histories of Torah belong to Prophets of Allah and begins from the first human being : Adam, the torah was revealed to Moses.
The Real Stories of the Prophets:
http://davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6731

If someone found 6,000 year old tablets written in a language no one even uses anymore that were similar to the stories of the old testament, would you think these were corrupted to?

As the manuscripts of the Dead Sea? The truth that it would be interesting, but if the Bible is only 2000 years of antiquity old and has it been falsified gravely, what would say about 6000 year-old texts? Anyway I would believe that these texts would belong to one of the old Prophets of Allah.

Who corrupted the Torah and when did they do this?

The jews after Moses.

if you believe all other relgious books used by main stream religion are corrupt, how can you be sure that yours is not corrupted either

Allaah delegated the preservation of the Torah and Gospel to their scholars and monks, based on the evidence of the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We did send down the Tawraat (Torah) [to Moosa (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allaah’s Will, judged for the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests [too judged for the Jews by the Tawraat (Torah) after those Prophets], for to them was entrusted the protection of Allaah’s Book, and they were witnesses thereto”

[al-Maa'idah 5:44].

Firstly:
Allaah did not guarantee to preserve them as He guaranteed to preserve the Qur’aan. There are a number of reasons for that:

1.

Allaah wanted the Qur'aan to remain the eternal Book and the law that would abide until the Day of Resurrection. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book (this Qur’aan) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures)”

[al-Maa'idah 5:48].

There is no need for the previous Books to be preserved, especially since the time of the Qur’aan was close to the time of the Gospel, and there were only six hundred years between them.

2.

That was to be a test for those who had been given the Book – would they play their role in preserving the Scripture? Would they believe in what it said? Would they follow the Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, whom they found mentioned in the Torah and Gospel? Or would they persist in their stubbornness and distort, conceal and falsify?

3.

This was also a test for all the followers of Christianity until the Day of Resurrection. They can see that their Book in which they believe is not free of distortions, doubts and loss, and they can see that the Book of the Final Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has been preserved and transmitted by so many from so many that no one can doubt its authenticity, so that calls them to believe in the clear Book, the Holy Qur’aan.

Secondly:

During the Jaahiliyyah, before the coming of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the people were polytheists (mushrikeen) and idol-worshippers, and most of them had no real religion or decent laws, except a few who followed the way of the Messiah (peace be upon him), such as Waraqah ibn Nawfal, and a few Haneefs who followed the religion of Ibraaheem, who shunned shirk, idols, alcohol and immorality, and prostrated to Allaah alone, the Lord of the Worlds, such as Zayd ibn ‘Amr ibn Nufayl, of whom it is narrated in a saheeh report in al-Bukhaari (3614) that he said: “I will not eat of that which you slaughter on your stone altars, and I will not eat anything but that over which the name of Allaah has been mentioned.” And he also used to say: “O Quraysh, by Allaah, there is no one among you who is following the religion of Ibraaheem except me.” He used to try to stop people burying their daughters alive, and he would say to a man who wanted to kill his daughter: Do not kill her; I will sponsor her. And he would take her and when she grew up he would say to her father: If you wish, I will give her to you, and if you wish, I will sponsor her. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3616).

And Allaah knows best.

[spiraltrance]

Care to go into more detail on this???

LOL. I've been thinking about how to reply to this kasalt. You see, firstly he didn't speak in a linear language like we do. Secondly what he said was very subjective and by repeating it I have to try and objectify it which removes alot of it's deeper meaning. This is why all spiritual scripture is corrupt and incomplete. So don't read this in black and white to much. Thirdly there was a multi dimensional element to it.


Essentialy God was once us or part of us. In our distant future having gone through 'cycles' of evolution (and not necesarily physical evolution as we see it) he became what we call God or at least 'a God' able to transcend the limits of space and time.

Having experienced everything we once did he has a very, very close bond to us. Seeing the dilemma we are presently in, he returns to the past (our present) to try and reconnect with us in our current present and maybe alliviate our suffering. I know this is a paradox!.

One of the problems is that because our mind is limited and polluted with divisive belief structures it makes it hard for us to let him become us again - you could we're to out of sync with him. Also organised religion with this emphasis of God being out there and some great being that is unapporachable, must bowed down to and worshiped from afar further complicates and blocks this reunification.

Also he want's simply to be human again, he wants to relive or re-be who he once was regardless of our percieved imperfections. Nothing big and great or small and humble. He just wants to be human again.

It's hard to go into to much more detail because I can't think of words to express it.

Now on the nature of God. We generaly imagine God as some old man in the sky that sits there and judges us. To me he didn't take any physical form, the only way I can descripe him was as a sphere or wave of golden light full of energy, wisdom and love. Very, very benevolant! He wasn't judgmental because what we do he once also did. If anything he emphasised not to get to hung up on our mistakes because in his sphere (what we could call the distant future) they have all been resolved and great things eventualy came of them.

I've pretty much said all I can about it kasalt. Hope you find it helpful.

[archangel]

Thank you for replying.

However, I find it very strange that Muslims would reference the Torah at all. Since it is corrupted, which you seem to believe it is extremely corrupted. I don't see how anyone would be able to pick through what is right and what is wrong. Especially when you have a book, the Quran, which is direct words from God. Why even bother with something so insignificant as the corrupted Torah.

No, I am not talking about the Dead Scrolls. I am talking about the Summerian Tablets of Creation. These tablets are writtin in Cunaform script. IT is one of the most ancient languages ever used and is not even spoken or written anymore. These 22,000 tablets are on display in the british musem and many books have been written about them.

These tablets Go back far before the Religion of Judiasm. They are simply historical records. With that said it would be imppossible for the jews to have corrupted these records. They were before the Torah.

These records speak about the creation of Man in the Garden of E.DEN and many of the stories of Old Testament. Sadam and Gamora, etc. These tablets speak of advanced knowledge such as the concepts of DNA and genetics and also have the entire solar system catalouged.

The tablets speak of extra--terrestrials who came to earth, crossed their DNA with cro-magnum man and then helped them set up civilization, among many other things. THe stories are identical to many of the accounts of the Old testament.

So if These are amongst the ancient records from which much of the information of the Jewish bible is taken. How can any of this information at all, be linked to Allah???

The Jews are talking about Aliens, where you are supposedly referring to the creator of the universe.

So if the Quran implies that Moses talked to the true God Allah as well, how does this not imply the Quran had errors too???

Because the God of Moses, the Jews, etc, is an ALIEN.

[positive terror]

Let us say that the aliens exist, they would be a creation of Allah. Nothing more, they are a part of this Univers, All created by Allah.

If you believe that we have been in contact with the aliens and that we have captured some of them,then...what a god!!! I refuse one god like this, and.... they are ugly :rolleyes: .

[archangel]

Let us say that the aliens exist, they would be a creation of Allah. Nothing more, they are a part of this Univers, All created by Allah.

If you believe that we have been in contact with the aliens and that we have captured some of them,then...what a god!!! I refuse one god like this, and.... they are ugly :rolleyes: .

I am a little confused by your post.

I'm just telling you what history says. What historical data and records say.

I want to know why Muslims say ALLAH and YAWEH are the same GOD.

YAWEH is an alien so why do muslims worship the same god? Do they not claim that Allah is the same God of the Old testament???

You are worshipping and alien and then claiming he created the universe??

[kasalt]

The Koran and the earliest Muslims did not believe the Bible was corrupted:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-not-corrupted-early-muslims.htm

[kasalt]

LOL. I've been thinking about how to reply to this kasalt. You see, firstly he didn't speak in a linear language like we do. Secondly what he said was very subjective and by repeating it I have to try and objectify it which removes alot of it's deeper meaning. This is why all spiritual scripture is corrupt and incomplete. So don't read this in black and white to much. Thirdly there was a multi dimensional element to it.


Essentialy God was once us or part of us. In our distant future having gone through 'cycles' of evolution (and not necesarily physical evolution as we see it) he became what we call God or at least 'a God' able to transcend the limits of space and time.

Having experienced everything we once did he has a very, very close bond to us. Seeing the dilemma we are presently in, he returns to the past (our present) to try and reconnect with us in our current present and maybe alliviate our suffering. I know this is a paradox!.

One of the problems is that because our mind is limited and polluted with divisive belief structures it makes it hard for us to let him become us again - you could we're to out of sync with him. Also organised religion with this emphasis of God being out there and some great being that is unapporachable, must bowed down to and worshiped from afar further complicates and blocks this reunification.

Also he want's simply to be human again, he wants to relive or re-be who he once was regardless of our percieved imperfections. Nothing big and great or small and humble. He just wants to be human again.

It's hard to go into to much more detail because I can't think of words to express it.

Now on the nature of God. We generaly imagine God as some old man in the sky that sits there and judges us. To me he didn't take any physical form, the only way I can descripe him was as a sphere or wave of golden light full of energy, wisdom and love. Very, very benevolant! He wasn't judgmental because what we do he once also did. If anything he emphasised not to get to hung up on our mistakes because in his sphere (what we could call the distant future) they have all been resolved and great things eventualy came of them.

I've pretty much said all I can about it kasalt. Hope you find it helpful.

Thanks for sharing, spiraltrance. I'm honestly at a bit of a loss to know what to think of it, but thanks. You clearly have some insights there.

[mr_moon]

Can you all now see how Religion causes Wars?

Crikey- the quicker we abolish 'Religion' the better. That's what I say.

Who agrees with THAT then?

[blane777]

Same system as all the rest just a different coat on.

[mr_moon]

Same system as all the rest just a different coat on.

Ok...how about accepting all religion as possible truth with no definitive truth?

[infinitely free]

Hi positive terror,
and thank you very much, for your background, to Islam!
I must say that no muslim, has ever managed to explain Islam, in a better way, to me before! :)

However positive terror, I have a few simple questions to ask you.

How would you explain the 'need', that 'Allah' places upon us, to suppress, so many of our feelings?
Why do we have to suppress, so many of our desires? :)

Thanks positive terror

P. S.
--------
I think after reading your explanation, it is clearer to me, why so many muslims are fanatical about their belief!

Cheers!

I.F.

[archangel]

can you please clear this up?

If the Jews worship extra terrestrials and the Christians believe Jesus is the son of this extra-terrestiral (YAWEH/GOD).

Then why do Muslims say they worship the same God who the Torah is about??

YAWEH---alien
ALLAH----Supreme architect

YAWEH = ALLAH ??????????? :confused::confused::confused:

[revolution 9]

PT can't even comprehend your question, much less answer it.

[positive terror]

PT can't even comprehend your question, much less answer it.

The first time: was reasonable, the second time: maybe coincidence, the third time: I told myself: he hate me, but now you are bothering me.
It is the last time that I see you in my posts!!! ok!!!?? If you dont like me, then go away from me!!! Do something useful, spy the jews and bring information here, for example, because you know how to get stick on someone.

[positive terror]

Hi positive terror,
and thank you very much, for your background, to Islam!
I must say that no muslim, has ever managed to explain Islam, in a better way, to me before! :)

However positive terror, I have a few simple questions to ask you.

How would you explain the 'need', that 'Allah' places upon us, to suppress, so many of our feelings?
Why do we have to suppress, so many of our desires? :)

Thanks positive terror

P. S.
--------
I think after reading your explanation, it is clearer to me, why so many muslims are fanatical about their belief!

Cheers!

I.F.

To demonstrate Him that we obey His commandments and to leave in evidence that we are not beasts or animals, to demonstrate that we are people with brain and that we control our desires for not causing the evil.

The feelings that Allah has given us we don't have reason to suppress them, alone we should use them correctly, for example: The desire of the sex: we should not use it to rape, to be homosexual, pedofilie or perverse other things, we should use the desire of the sex with our wives that previously have loved with our heart and that we have taken as partner of the life, in this sense once you are married and you don't practice the sex with your wife, then you are sinning gravely.....:)

[revolution 9]

The first time: was reasonable, the second time: maybe coincidence, the third time: I told myself: he hate me, but now you are bothering me.
It is the last time that I see you in my posts!!! ok!!!?? If you dont like me, then go away from me!!! Do something useful, spy the jews and bring information here, for example, because you know how to get stick on someone.


Oh, boo-fucking-hoo. You spam this whole forum up with 4-5+ threads a DAY about random Muslim topics. I come into this section and see 4 new ones you've started, not to mention the ones all over the other forums.

Don't make a thousand new threads and then cry because someone responds to more than one of them informing you that the shit you post is a waste. If you don't like it, stop posting wasteful bullshit. Don't expect me to sift through your tired, boring threads without saying anything.

[positive terror]

If you think are not useful, dont read it, simple.
Of you dont have brain to understand that, if you are not agree, you are free to answer with prouves.
But you are like a child, always bothering and crying......common go to sleep, kid.

[cheeb]

That is a very good grasp of English slang,
You got there Positive Terror,
I Didn't know "kid" was a spanish term,
Where you from really,
Madchester,Our Kid!!!

[archangel]

Why will you not address my question???:confused:

[revolution 9]

If you think are not useful, dont read it, simple.
Of you dont have brain to understand that, if you are not agree, you are free to answer with prouves.
But you are like a child, always bothering and crying......common go to sleep, kid.

Hey, remember in that other thread when you called me uneducated and then I showed you out as a total liar? I consider that to be sufficient "prouves," and so does anyone else not deluded or retarded.

[infinitely free]

To demonstrate Him that we obey His commandments and to leave in evidence that we are not beasts or animals, to demonstrate that we are people with brain and that we control our desires for not causing the evil.

The feelings that Allah has given us we don't have reason to suppress them, alone we should use them correctly, for example: The desire of the sex: we should not use it to rape, to be homosexual, pedofilie or perverse other things, we should use the desire of the sex with our wives that previously have loved with our heart and that we have taken as partner of the life, in this sense once you are married and you don't practice the sex with your wife, then you are sinning gravely.....:)

Thanks very much, foryour reply positive terror! :)
I get the idea, of where you are coming from - it is no different from other religions (christianity, judaism)

However, mindsets, like mine, are above these techings - if two people want to have sex, then I don't believe that the 'God', you believe in, would stop them!
You should not let anyone tell you what to believe, positive terror! But, you should also, try to ocasionally, be open-minded

Peace to you, positive terror! :)

I. F.

[megafish33]

The first time: was reasonable, the second time: maybe coincidence, the third time: I told myself: he hate me, but now you are bothering me.

Nobody here hates you. That's the difference between many (though not all, truth be told) who profess to love Allah, an idea, and people who love themselves, others, and life (as opposed to death). That's the difference. If you love an idea with such passion, whoever is the mouthpiece of that idea, can lead you around like he's your good shepherd and you'll never question it. I've seen this in "my" people, "your" people, peoples of "Christian nations," etc., it's everywhere and it's a sort of mental virus.

Meme Central... read up on it (http://www.memecentral.com/)

Now, I'm not the biggest fan of the person who originated that word, meme, but he makes a good point!

[positive terror]

Nobody here hates you. That's the difference between many (though not all, truth be told) who profess to love Allah, an idea, and people who love themselves, others, and life (as opposed to death). That's the difference. If you love an idea with such passion, whoever is the mouthpiece of that idea, can lead you around like he's your good shepherd and you'll never question it. I've seen this in "my" people, "your" people, peoples of "Christian nations," etc., it's everywhere and it's a sort of mental virus.

Meme Central... read up on it (http://www.memecentral.com/)

Now, I'm not the biggest fan of the person who originated that word, meme, but he makes a good point!

That was not for you, that was for revolution 9......please speek alone for yourself.
If you want to know wat means hate read this:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6934

[megafish33]

That was not for you, that was for revolution 9......please speek alone for yourself.
If you want to know wat means hate read this:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6934


I wasn't speaking for him, I was speaking to you.

Everything I said went in one ear and out the other didn't it? Is that because I'm Jewish? Then you post a link to a racist thread. Snap out of it man... Would you kill yourself and others? For "Allah?" Maybe you were never loved or something, my heart goes out to you, not that you care...

[positive terror]

I wasn't speaking for him, I was speaking to you.

Everything I said went in one ear and out the other didn't it? Is that because I'm Jewish? Then you post a link to a racist thread. Snap out of it man... Would you kill yourself and others? For "Allah?" Maybe you were never loved or something, my heart goes out to you, not that you care...

The jews are those that have not been loved by the people...and by YHWH.

I am loved by the people around me and I have more than enough love thanks to Allah.
Im very very happy....when I go out....and more happy when I comme back to home. :) Thanks to Allah infinetly.

[megafish33]

The jews are those that have not been loved by the people...and by YHWH.

I am loved by the people around me and I have more than enough love thanks to Allah.
Im very very happy....when I go out....and more happy when I comme back to home. :) Thanks to Allah infinetly.

Who's YH-WH and how does he or she differ from Allah? Jews have not been loved by racist pigs who would like to exterminate whole groups of peoples.

Would the people around you still love you if you left Allah? If so, than that's a conditional type of "love" PT.That's not true love, it's not even the loving-kindness the corrupted Torah and Gospel teach is it?

I'm glad you're happy and found some hope, I just feel you're being brainwashed. Did you check out the link I gave you, about the memes? Read up on it. It basically explains all sort of things... how ideas are almost viral in their nature even if they aren't biological. Even religion... doesn't have to be "good" just a good meme... Go and read up on it... doesn't mean you have to give up Islam if you educate yourself on these different sciences.

[revolution 9]

Everything I said went in one ear and out the other didn't it?

As if there's some doubt.

[cheeb]

Who's YH-WH and how does he or she differ from Allah? Jews have not been loved by racist pigs who would like to exterminate whole groups of peoples.

Would the people around you still love you if you left Allah? If so, than that's a conditional type of "love" PT.That's not true love, it's not even the loving-kindness the corrupted Torah and Gospel teach is it?

I'm glad you're happy and found some hope, I just feel you're being brainwashed. Did you check out the link I gave you, about the memes? Read up on it. It basically explains all sort of things... how ideas are almost viral in their nature even if they aren't biological. Even religion... doesn't have to be "good" just a good meme... Go and read up on it... doesn't mean you have to give up Islam if you educate yourself on these different sciences.

I,love a,
good meme
But its a bit of an unscientific idea,
Memes have no substance,
They cannnot be isolated,
Photographed,
Studied under under a microscope,
I have said there is a better psychological explanation,
Nature v's nurture,
Its nurture,
Geography,
One could almost call it,
The folly of the fathers!!!!

:eek:

[archangel]

Muslims worship Aliens

[synergy777]

why would the creator need to do that ?, if he/she can create galaxies etc at will, why the need to come down as a human. to me it shows lack of respect, logic and arrogance. to think the creator would come into the form of human/animal, "ye shall be as gods". its the human ego trying to raise itself to the same level as the creator.

also who did yashuah cry out to on the cross.

when he said " why have you forsaken me"

why was he talking to the creator, when he was the creator himself ? why talk about the creator, to the creator, pray to the creator, when you are the creator?

personally those that say the creator came here as flesh are arrogant blaspheming fools, who show no respect for the creator. logic defeats blind faith, so very easily. lost sheep, is what you are. arrogant wannabe gods, to be frank.

as for reading the bible, and following it, the recognition of scripture, seems to be selective, follow which exalts you, ignoring that which condemns you. the only people you are kidding is yourself, they call it stockholm syndrome/emperors new clothes.

shall we talk about the tribe of dan, son pf perdition ?

also

Muslims worship Aliens

these aliens wouldn't be the white race from mars who got dropped off in the caucasus mountains. after all if you from outer space, why get dropped off in such a place? what where you doing there, does the alien drop off hidi the reasons why you where there ?

why not get dropped off in the warm med, or the bahamas, lol

[megafish33]

Thanks for posting synergy777,

I think it's a question of is Allah the creator or not? If that assumption is correct, than of course you have valid arguments on if he is or isn't Jesus Christ in some trinity.

As for the aliens... well if that is true and they did land, they probably looked for their own interests, which could differ with yours. And the earth may not have been exactly the same at that time. I think the Fertile Crescent could have been more than ideal and the Caucuses Mountains aren't too far off, and they would be more elevated there.

[archangel]

these aliens wouldn't be the white race from mars who got dropped off in the caucasus mountains. after all if you from outer space, why get dropped off in such a place? what where you doing there, does the alien drop off hidi the reasons why you where there ?

why not get dropped off in the warm med, or the bahamas, lol

Not sure what they look like. Not sure why you thought they were dropped off in the mountains.

I just know the Sumerian tablets say the Gods created Man by splicing their DNA with cave-men type beings to create us.

And I have serveral Free-mason friends who will at least say that much.

as for what they look like. I do not know. There are many theories about that. But that is beyond the scope of what i'm saying.

Thes Aliens/Anunake are who the Old testament refers to as God.

Muslims recognize this/these beings as ALLAH.

So I will say again

MUSLIMS WORSHIP ALIENS

actually there are Multiple options
MUSLIMS WORSHIP ALIENS
MOHAMAD SMOKED CRACK AND THEN WROTE SOME WEIRD SHIT DOWN

IF he really did speak to the "creator" he would have been told the truth about every and his views wouldn't be so contradicting to history.

[positive terror]

So I will say again

MUSLIMS WORSHIP ALIENS

actually there are Multiple options
MUSLIMS WORSHIP ALIENS
MOHAMAD SMOKED CRACK AND THEN WROTE SOME WEIRD SHIT DOWN

IF he really did speak to the "creator" he would have been told the truth about every and his views wouldn't be so contradicting to history.

At the beginning I had respect for you but now that you say so many stupidities and lies I believe that you are an ignorant and a liar.
First: in those times there was not crack and in Islam it is prohibited any substance that alters the mind.
Second: Muhhamad was illiterate and Koran was written 50 years after its death.

So shut UP with your lies!!! and I told you before that aliens are only a creation, one creation more in this big univers. ALLAH IS THE CREATOR.
We worship the Creator of the universe, the creator of humans .... and the creator of aliens too.

[archangel]

At the beginning I had respect for you but now that you say so many stupidities and lies I believe that you are an ignorant and a liar.
First: in those times there was not crack and in Islam it is prohibited any substance that alters the mind.
Second: Muhhamad was illiterate and Koran was written 50 years after its death.

So shut UP with your lies!!! and I told you before that aliens are only a creation, one creation more in this big univers. ALLAH IS THE CREATOR.
We worship the Creator of the universe, the creator of humans .... and the creator of aliens too.

God did not create Man.
some type of mammal was in the process of evolving into man/an advanced being, Then Aliens messed with it's genetics and made us what we we are today.

This is who the Bible refers to as God.
This is who who muslims say ALLAH is.

What am I lieing about there?
Or are you just in denial?

If your prophet did speak to the creator, he would have been clear on this point. One can only assume that since Muhammad got all of this wrong he is a complete fake or was completely insane.

the Kuran was written 50 yrs after his death?? WOW!! that leaves even more room for lots of errors.

[positive terror]

This means that you have not read any previous answer, it is not worthwhile to continue speaking with you.

[archangel]

This means that you have not read any previous answer, it is not worthwhile to continue speaking with you.

You claim ALLAH is the creator of the Universe
THen associate him with Aliens

MUSLIMS WORSHIP ALIENS

[positive terror]

You claim ALLAH is the creator of the Universe
THen associate him with Aliens

MUSLIMS WORSHIP ALIENS

Prouves moth......cker..Prouves....if you have

[archangel]

Muslims Worship Aliens?

[positive terror]

Yes, PROUVES.

not only bla bla bla

ok???

[archangel]

Yes, PROUVES.

not only bla bla bla

ok???

I'm glad that you agree with me and have seen the light. Please pass the information on to your fellow Muslims about
their errors of their faith

[positive terror]

Please teache me the truth, explain to me in what you believe and if you convince me I will follow you.

[archangel]

Please teache me the truth, explain to me in what you believe and if you convince me I will follow you.

You already agreed with me. You said it yourself

MUSLIMS WORSHIP PEOPLE IN SPACE SHIPS AND MAKE FALSE CLAIMS THAT THE ALIENS ARE CREATED THE UNIVERSE

[positive terror]

How old are you? should you not be sleeping?

[archangel]

PRAISE BE TO ALLAH

http://www.nanomessiah.com/alien-nanotechnology/images/alien_grey_dude.gif

[positive terror]

I told you previously that I found the aliens ugly compared with the humans, it is incomparable with Allah. But your you take this to skylarking, when the death comes it will no longer be so amusing.

[archangel]

I told you previously that I found the aliens ugly compared with the humans, it is incomparable with Allah. But your you take this to skylarking, when the death comes it will no longer be so amusing.

I'm not sure if he looks like that particular Alien, But he is either an Alien or a Lie. Your guess is as good as mine.



Not saying there is not a Creator, but Muhammad didn't get messages from him and he didn't inspire the Kuran.

[abrilliantone]

I Am Infinite Oneness. and anything and I do mean any and everything. That talks about some divine being in heaven who's ass I have to kiss in order to make it up to them. Can kiss my ass :eek: ( please excuse my french everyone :D ) Because that is not reflecting my Oneness. Oneness is total equalness everyone and everything is equal. Their is no big I's or little you's when dealing with Infinite Oneness. You Are All And All Is You. Their is no division, their is no he's up there and i'm down here type of crap (see division:D) All IS ONE AND ONE IS ALL. Please Keep that in mind :cool:

[revolution 9]

Positive Terror, just admit you. You worship a guy in a flying saucer.

[megafish33]

Positive Terror, just admit you. You worship a guy in a flying saucer.

Who promises 72 virgins... :D Don't forget...

[kasalt]

Who promises 72 virgins... :D Don't forget...

What if PT gets to paradise and finds out that he has been awarded 72 virgin greys? I think he will be disenchanted then. No doubt he is expecting 72 Nordic types, but you never know.

[megafish33]

What if PT gets to paradise and finds out that he has been awarded 72 virgin greys? I think he will be disenchanted then. No doubt he is expecting 72 Nordic types, but you never know.

S'long as their virgin... ;)

[positive terror]

envy

[positive terror]

Who do Muslims worship?



Praise be to Allaah.


“This is the Guidance of Allaah with which He guides whomsoever He will of His slaves…” [al-An’aam 6:88]

“And whomsoever Allaah wills to guide, He opens his breast to Islam…” [al-An’aam 6:125]

With regard to this important question – who do the Muslims worship? – the answer is to be found in the Holy Qur’aan, which is the Scripture of Islam, and in the words of the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who received Revelation from his Lord.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“In the name of Allaah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. All praises and thanks be to Allaah, the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists), the Most Beneficient, the Most Merciful, the Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e., the Day of Resurrection). You (Alone) we worship, and You (alone) we ask for help (for each and every thing).” [al-Faatihah 1:1-5]

“O mankind! Worship your Lord (Allaah), Who has created you and those before you so that you may become al-muttaqoon (the pious).” [al-Baqarah 2:21]

“Such is Allaah, your Lord! None has the right to be worshipped but He, the Creator of all things. So worship Him (Alone), and He is the Wakeel (Trustee, Disposer of affairs, Guardian) over all things.”[al-An’aam 6:102]

“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him, and that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.” [al-Isra’ 17:23]

Muslim worship Allaah [the One True God] whom all the Prophets worshipped. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya’qoob [Jacob]? When he said unto his sons, ‘What will you worship after me?’ They said, ‘We shall worship your God, the God of your fathers, Ibraaheem [Abraham], Ismaa’eel [Ishmael] and Is-haaq [Isaac], One God, and to Him we submit (in Islam).” [al-Baqarah 2:133]

The Muslims worship Allaah and call others who follow different religions to worship Allaah Alone, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say [O Muhammad]: ‘O People of the Scripture [Jews and Christians]: come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allaah, and we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allaah.’ Then, if they turn away, say, ‘Bear witness that we are Muslims.’” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:64]

It is Allaah Alone Whom Nooh [Noah] (peace be upon him) called his people to worship, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Indeed, We sent Nooh [Noah] to his people and he said: ‘O my people! Worship Allaah! You have no other god but Him. Certainly, I fear for you the torment of a Great Day!.’” [al-A’raaf 7:59]

It is Allaah Alone whom the Messiah [Jesus] (peace be upon him) called people to worship, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Surely they have disbelieved who say: ‘Allaah is the Messiah [Jesus] son of Maryam [Mary].’ But the Messiah said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers.” [al-Maa’idah 5:73]

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): ‘O ‘Eesa [Jesus], son of Maryam [Mary]! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah?’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours. You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.

Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: “Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord.” And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things.’”[al-Maa’idah 5:116-117]

When Allaah spoke to His Prophet Moosa [Moses] (peace be upon him), He said (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, I am Allaah! None has the right to be worshipped but I, so worship Me, and perform al-Salaah [prayer] for My Remembrance.”[Ta-Ha 20:14]

Allaah commanded His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as follows (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say [O Muhammad]: ‘O mankind! If you are in doubt as to my religion (Islam), then (know that) I will never worship those whom you worship, besides Allaah. But I worship Allaah Who causes you to die, I am commanded to be one of the believers.” [Yoonus 10:104]

It is Him Alone, with no partner or associate, Whom the angels worship and do not worship anyone or anything besides Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“To Him belongs whosoever is in the heavens and on earth. And those who are near Him (i.e., the angels) are not too proud to worship Him, nor are they weary (of His worship).”[al-Anbiya’ 21:19]

Everything that is worshipped instead of Allaah can neither bring benefit nor cause harm, it can neither create nor provide. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say (O Muhammad, to mankind); ‘How do you worship besides Allaah something which has no power either to harm or to benefit you? But it is Allaah Who is the All-Hearer, All-Knower.’” [al-Maa’idah 5:76]

“You worship besides Allaah only idols, and you only invent falsehood. Verily, those whom you worship besides Allaah have no power to give you provision, so seek your provision from Allaah (Alone), and worship Him (Alone), and be grateful to Him. To Him (Alone) you will be brought back.” [al-‘Ankaboot 29:17]

Having explained this, we must complete the topic by asking: why should we worship Allaah Alone with no partner or associate? The answer is as follows:

Firstly: because there is nothing and nobody else in the universe that deserves to be worshipped, for Allaah is the Creator and Sustainer, Who has created the universe out of nothing and has bestowed so many blessings upon us. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So glorify Allaah, when you come up to the evening [i.e., offer the Maghrib (sunset) and ‘Isha’ (night) prayers], and when you enter the morning [I.e., offer the Fajr (morning) prayers].

And His is all the praise and thanks in the heavens and the earth, and (glorify Him) in the afternoon [i.e., offer ‘Asr (mid-afternoon) prayer] and when you come up to the time when the day begins to decline [i.e., offer the Zuhr (mid-day) prayer].

He brings out the living from the dead, and brings out the dead from the living. And He revives the earth after its death, and thus shall you be brought out (resurrected).

And among His Signs is this, that He created you (Adam) from dust, and then [Hawwa (Eve) from Adam’s rib, then his offspring from the semen, and], - behold you are human beings scattered!

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect.

And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge.

And among His Signs is the sleep that you take by night and by day, and your seeking of His Bounty. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who listen.

And among His Signs is that He shows you the lightning, by way of fear and hope, and He sends down water (rain) from the sky, and therewith revives the earth after its death. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who understand.

And among His Signs is that the heaven and the earth stand by His Command, then afterwards when He will call you by single call, behold, you will come out from the earth (ie.e, from your graves, for reckoning and recompense).

To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are obedient to Him.

And He it is Who originates the creation, then will repeat it (after it has perished), and this is easier for Him. His is the highest description (i.e., none has the right to be worshipped but He, and there is nothing comparable unto Him) in the heavens and in the earth. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.”[al-Room 30: 17-27]

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Is not He (better than your gods) Who created the heavens and the earth, and sends down for you water (rain) from the sky, whereby We cause to grow wonderful gardens full of beauty and delight? It is not in your ability to cause the growth of their trees. Is there any god with Allaah? Nay, but they are a people who ascribe equals (to Him)!

Is not he (better than you gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water). Is there any god with Allaah? Nay, but most of them know not.

Is not He (better than your gods) Who responds to the distressed one, when He calls Him, and Who removes the evil, generations after generations. Is there any god with Allaah? Little is it that you remember!

Is not He (better than your gods) Who guides you in the darkness of the land and the sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His mercy (rain)? Is there any god with Allaah? High Exalted be Allaah above all that they associate as partners (to Him)!

Is not He (better than your so-called gods) Who originates creation, and shall thereafter repeat it, and Who provides for you from heaven and earth? Is there any god with Allaah? Say: ‘bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful’

Say: ‘None on the heavens and the earth knows the unseen except Allaah, nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected.’”

[al-Naml 27:60-65]
So is there anyone or anything besides Allaah that deserves to be worshipped?

Secondly: Allaah did not create us except to worship Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).”[al-Dhaariyaat 51:56]

Thirdly: No one will be saved on the Day of Resurrection except those who used to worship Allaah truly and sincerely. After death Allaah will resurrect His slaves and call them to account, rewarding or punishing them according to their deeds. No one will be saved on that day except for those who used to worship Allaah Alone. The rest will be gathered into a Hell, a terrible fate! The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), was asked by his Companions: “Will we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?” He told them:

“Do you doubt that you can see the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?” We [his Companions] said, “No.” He said, “Then you should not doubt that you will see your Lord on that Day, you will see Him as you see them (the sun and moon).” Then he said, “A caller will call out, ‘Let every people go to that which they used to worship.’ So the worshippers of the cross will go with their cross, the worshippers of idols will go with their idols and the worshippers of every god will go with their gods, until there will be left those who used to worship Allaah, whether they were righteous or otherwise, and a few of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians]. Then Hell will be brought and shown to them as if it is a mirage. It will be said to the Jews, ‘What did you used to worship?’ They will say, ‘We used to worship ‘Uzayr, the son of God.’ It will be said, ‘You have lied. Allaah does not have a wife or son. What do you want?’ They will say, ‘We want something to drink.’ It will be said to them, ‘Drink!’ and they will fall into Hell. Then it will be said to the Christians, ‘What did you used to worship?’ They will say, ‘We used to worship the Messiah, the son of God.’ It will be said, ‘You have lied. Allaah does not have a wife or son. What do you want?’ They will say, ‘We want something to drink.’ It will be said to them, ‘Drink!’ and they will fall into Hell. Then there will be left those who used to worship Allaah, whether they were righteous or otherwise. It will be said to them, ‘What are you waiting for? All the people have gone.’ They will say, ‘We have separated from them and we need Him more today. We heard a caller saying that every people should follow that which they used to worship, so we are waiting for our Lord.’ He will say, ‘Al-Jabbaar [the Compeller, i.e., Allaah] will come…’ And He will say, ‘I am your Lord.’ They will say, ‘You are our Lord,’ but none will speak to Him except the Prophets… then every believer will prostrate to Him.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, no. 6886). These believers are the people of Paradise on whom shall be no fear neither shall they grieve, and they will dwell therein for ever.

We hope that this matter has now become clear. In conclusion we can say nothing except that which Allaah has said (interpretation of the meaning):

“Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes stray, then he goes astray to his own loss…” [al-Isra’ 17:15]
Peace be upon him who follows the guidance.

[kasalt]

How would you explain the 'need', that 'Allah' places upon us, to suppress, so many of our feelings?
Why do we have to suppress, so many of our desires?

How's this for suppression of desires:

The sensual pleasures are graphically elaborated by Al-Suyuti (died 1505), Koranic commentator and polymath. He wrote: "Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [ie Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas."

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Ibnwarraq/what_virgins.htm

[archangel]

Peace be upon him and all of his virgins in heaven.

http://www.electricrenaissance.com/planetx/anunaki2.jpg

[positive terror]

Description of al-hoor al-‘iyn in the Qur’aan
Women Of Paradise

Firstly:

Pleasing the most Merciful and entering Paradise are the ultimate aim that believing men and women should wish for. If a person departs this world having won the pleasure of Allaah, then he will have the glad tidings of all that is good after that. When he enters Paradise he will have delights and pleasures such as no eye has seen, no ear has heard and it has not entered the mind of any man. He will have all that he wishes for in the best ways. Everything that he asks for will be granted, and everything that he longs for he will get. He will never find anything to upset or disturb him, because he is in the care of the Most Merciful, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Therein you shall have (all) that your inner‑selves desire, and therein you shall have (all) for which you ask.

32. An entertainment from (Allaah), the Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[Fussilat 41:31-32]

One of the best things that people long for in the Hereafter is, for men, the women of Paradise, namely al-hoor al-‘iyn, and for women there is an equivalent delight. By His great wisdom, Allaah has not mentioned what the women will have as the equivalent of al-hoor al-‘iyn for men, and that is due to modesty and shyness. How can He encourage them to seek Paradise by mentioning something that they are too shy and modest to mention or speak about themselves? So He has simply hinted at it, as in the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“Therein you shall have (all) that your inner‑selves desire

[Fussilat 41:31-32]

The description of al-hoor al-‘iyn is mentioned in more than one place in the Book of Allaah, such as the following:

1 – Allaah says, describing the reward of the people of Paradise (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (there will be) Hoor (fair females) with wide lovely eyes (as wives for Al-Muttaqoon – the pious).

23. Like unto preserved pearls”

[al-Waaqi’ah 56:22, 23]

al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him)said:

“And (there will be) Hoor (fair females) with wide lovely eyes”. Al-Hawra’ is a woman in whose eyes are lined with kohl, beautiful and bright. Al-‘iyn refers to beautiful and huge eyes. The beauty of eyes in the female is one of the greatest signs of beauty.

“Like unto preserved pearls” means, as if they are pure, white, shining pearls, which are covered and protected from people’s eyes, the wind and the sun. Their colour is one of the most beautiful of colours and they have no fault or blemish of any kind. This is how al-hoor al-‘iyn are: they have no faults of blemishes of any kind, rather they are beautiful in all ways.

Every time you gaze upon her, you see nothing but that which gladdens the heart. End quote.

Tafseer al-Sa’di, p. 991

2 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(In beauty) they are like rubies and coral”

[al-Rahmaan 55:58]

al-Tabari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Ibn Zayd said concerning the words “they are like rubies and coral” it is as if they are rubies in their purity and like coral in their whiteness. So their purity is that of rubies and their whiteness is that of pearls. End quote.

Tafseer al-Tabari, 27/152

3 – Allaah says describing the women of Paradise, in Soorat al-Waaqi’ah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We have created them (maidens) of special creation.

36. And made them virgins.

37. Loving (their husbands only), (and) of equal age”

[al-Waaqi’ah 56:35-37]

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

With regard to the word “loving (‘uruban)”, Sa’eed ibn Jubayr said, quoting from Ibn ‘Abbaas that it means: they are loving towards their husbands. It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that al-‘urub are those who love their husbands and their husbands love them.

With regard to the word “of equal age (atraaban)”, al-Dahhaak said, quoting from Ibn ‘Abbaas, that it means: of the same age, thirty-three years.

Al-Saddi said: “atraaban” means that they are equal in temperament and they do not resent or envy one another, i.e., they are not like hostile co-wives. End quote.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 4/294

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said:

It was narrated that Mujaahid said concerning the verse “Loving (their husbands only), (and) of equal age”: i.e., those who are dear to their husbands.

Fath al-Baari, 8/626

4 – Allaah says, describing them (interpretation of the meaning):

“Therein (Gardens) will be Khairaatun‑Hisaan [fair (wives) good and beautiful]”

[al-Rahmaan 55:70]

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

They are described as being fair and beautiful. The word khayraat (fair and good) is derived from the word khayyarah, which refers to the woman who combines all good qualities, both outward and inward, and whose physical appearance and attitude are perfect. So they are good in attitude and fair of face.

Rawdat al-Muhibbeen, p. 243.

5 – Allaah describes them as pure, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and they shall have therein Azwaajun Mutahharatun (purified mates or wives), and they will abide therein forever”

[al-Baqarah 2:25]

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

Allaah describes them as pure: “and they shall have therein Azwaajun Mutahharatun (purified mates or wives)”, pure from menses, urine and the like (stools) and all off-putting features that may exist in the women of this world. And their hearts are pure from envy, annoyance of their husbands, meanness or wishing for husbands other than them.

Rawdat al-Muhibbeen, p. 243, 244

6 – Allaah describes them as refraining from looking at anyone except their husbands (interpretation of the meaning):

“Wherein both will be Qaasiraat‑ut‑Tarf [chaste females (wives) restraining their glances, desiring none except their husbands]”

[al-Rahmaan 55:56]

“Hoor (beautiful, fair females) guarded in pavilions”

[al-Rahmaan 55:72]

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

Allaah describes them as being “guarded in pavilions”, i.e., they are prevented from making a display of themselves before anyone except their husbands. They are guarded for their husbands and they do not go out of their houses, and they restrain themselves for them and do not desire anyone else. And Allaah describes them as “Qaasiraat‑ut‑Tarf [chaste females (wives) restraining their glances”. This description is more complete than the first, for one of them restrains her gaze and focuses her love upon her husband, she is content with him and does not look beyond him at anyone else.

Rawdat al-Muhibbeen, p. 244

This is a brief look at what has been said about them in the Qur’aan. In the Sunnah there are descriptions of their beauty and fairness which defy the imagination, such as the following:

1 – It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The first group will enter Paradise looking like the moon on the night when it is full, and those who follow them will be like the brightest shining star in the sky. Their hearts will be as one, and there will be no hatred or jealousy among them. Each man will have two wives from among al-hoor al-‘iyn, the marrow of whose calves can be seen from beneath the bone and flesh.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3014; Muslim, 2843.

Ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The stunning beauty of the hoori is such that the marrow of her calves can be seen from beneath her clothes, and a man will be able to see his face in the liver of one of them, like a mirror because of the fineness of her skin and the purity of her colour.

Fath al-Baari, 8/570

2 – It was narrated that Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a woman from among the people of Paradise were to look out over the earth, she would illuminate everything that is in between them, and would fill everything that is in between them with fragrance. And the scarf on her head is better than this world and everything in it.”

If she were to show her face, it would shine between heaven and earth; how beautiful is the light of her face and how beautiful the scent that is filling the space between heaven and earth. As for her garments, the scarf that she places on her head is better than the beauty of this world and all that is in it of delights and pleasure and natural beauty and splendid palaces and other kinds of luxuries. Glory be to their Creator, how great He is, and congratulations to the one for whom she is and he is for her.

Secondly:

The situation of the believing woman in Paradise will be better than the situation of the hoor al-‘iyn; she will be higher in status and more beautiful. Several ahaadeeth and reports have been narrated concerning that, but none of them can be proven to be sound. But if a righteous woman from among the people of this world enters Paradise, then she will do so as a reward for her righteous deeds and as a honour from Allaah to her for her religious commitment and righteousness. As for the hoori who is one of the delights of Paradise, she has only been created in Paradise for the sake of someone else, and has been made the reward for the believing man for his righteous deeds. There is a great difference between one who enters Paradise as a reward for her righteous deeds and the one who was created as a reward for one who did righteous deeds. The former is a queen and a princess, and the latter, no matter how beautiful she is, is undoubtedly lower in status than a queen, and she is subject to the command of her believing master for whom Allaah created her as a reward.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: Does the description of the hoor al-‘iyn include the women of this world?

He replied:

It seems to me that the women of this world will be better than the hoor al-‘iyn, even in outward appearance, and Allaah knows best.

Fataawa Noor ‘ala al-Darb.

We ask Allaah the Almighty to give us the best of that which He gives to His believing slaves.

[archangel]

PRAISE BE UPON ALLAH.

MUSLIMS GET ON THEIR KNEES AND AND BOW TO HIS BLACK BOX AND KISS HIS BLACK SIN ROCK

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/universal_pictures/e_t__the_extra_terrestrial/et2.jpg

[revolution 9]

Ironically, a post I made in this thread complimenting Positive Terror for a witty comeback was deleted, so the only thing nice I ever said about PT is now lost for eternity.

Infinite love...

[megafish33]

envy

If I was envious I would have joined Islam PT...

Do you believe in evolution?

[gorana]

Dear positive terror,

where to start...

I see that you are senior member of this forum and that you have made many many posts here, but... This is not typical forum and these people are not typical people.

All of us are at one level of "revelation" or "enlightment" or (use your favorite description here), so we noticed that earth religions are just copy one of other with few bits and details changed to fit cultural and/or geographical intersts.

So, posting lines out of Quran do not help as proof of anything. Attacking other people does not help it either. And... What these people here asked you at begining is "can you answer in your own words this and that?"

Repeating and/or pasting text out of Quran shows one type of brainwash. Why? Because, it shows that you are not to interpret these lines, you are not to think on these lines, and ultimatively you are not to question real meaning of them. Yours is to know them as they are...

Think about what i said.

G.

[positive terror]

If I was envious I would have joined Islam PT...

Do you believe in evolution?

If you have joined Islam , To that he is called to be sincere.

But you have envy and that means that you want the extermination of Islam and Muslims.....but..I tell you what...YOU GONNA DIE...and you gonna see ALL YOUR LIFE how Islam turns bigger and how the people turn muslims every day....You gonna die and you gonna left Islam in a better way.... so ... you gonna die with your envy...you gonna die furious..:D

Evolution its a fraud....

Download this IMPORTANT book : DARWINISM REFUTED (http://www.unifiedummah.com/sections/books/books/Darwinism%20Refuted%20-%20Harun%20Yahya.pdf)

Darwinism Refuted

Harun Yahya

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” So wrote Charles Darwin in `The Origin of Species`, where he made his theory of evolution public. The theory applied materialist philosophy to nature and challenged the consensus that life on earth is the artifact of the Creator. During the following 150 years, many in the scientific community assumed that Darwin had almost accomplished this task.

http://www.omelketab.net/portal/subjects/378/poster378.jpg

[cheeb]

If you have joined Islam , To that he is called to be sincere.

But you have envy and that means that you want the extermination of Islam and Muslims.....but..I tell you what...YOU GONNA DIE...and you gonna see ALL YOUR LIFE how Islam turns bigger and how the people turn muslims every day....You gonna die and you gonna left Islam in a better way.... so ... you gonna die with your envy...you gonna die furious..:D

Evolution its a fraud....

Download this IMPORTANT book : DARWINISM REFUTED (http://www.unifiedummah.com/sections/books/books/Darwinism%20Refuted%20-%20Harun%20Yahya.pdf)

Darwinism Refuted

Harun Yahya

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” So wrote Charles Darwin in `The Origin of Species`, where he made his theory of evolution public. The theory applied materialist philosophy to nature and challenged the consensus that life on earth is the artifact of the Creator. During the following 150 years, many in the scientific community assumed that Darwin had almost accomplished this task.

http://www.omelketab.net/portal/subjects/378/poster378.jpg

Don't be daft Positive terror,
The Prophet(pboh),
Was not a scientist,
Had not studied mitochondrial DNA,
Knew nothing of genetics,
Chromosomes,
Or cellular mutation,
It was a spiritual revealation,
that he had at becca and medina,
Not ba scientific one!!!

:eek:

[mr_moon]

If you have joined Islam , To that he is called to be sincere.

But you have envy and that means that you want the extermination of Islam and Muslims.....but..I tell you what...YOU GONNA DIE...and you gonna see ALL YOUR LIFE how Islam turns bigger and how the people turn muslims every day....You gonna die and you gonna left Islam in a better way.... so ... you gonna die with your envy...you gonna die furious..:D

Evolution its a fraud....

Download this IMPORTANT book : DARWINISM REFUTED (http://www.unifiedummah.com/sections/books/books/Darwinism%20Refuted%20-%20Harun%20Yahya.pdf)

Darwinism Refuted

Harun Yahya

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” So wrote Charles Darwin in `The Origin of Species`, where he made his theory of evolution public. The theory applied materialist philosophy to nature and challenged the consensus that life on earth is the artifact of the Creator. During the following 150 years, many in the scientific community assumed that Darwin had almost accomplished this task.

http://www.omelketab.net/portal/subjects/378/poster378.jpg

Darwinism is a manufactured crock of ol' cobblers, designed to keep us thinking we 'only' have intelligence. We have CONSCIOUSNESS too!!

Every single Human Being on this Planet is Spiritual no matter what anyone says. We are Intelligent, Spiritual Beings. So intelligent infact that we have convinced OURSELVES that Religion, God, Science, Time, History and even Spirituality actually exist in the first place!

We have divided our brains, divided our sexes and divided our selves. Why would we do this? Because we are intelligent!

We can create ANYTHING we want without impossibility. We created Gravity, we created 'concepts' and we created ourselves. WE, collective Universal Consciousness, pure LOVE, have created Human Beings to teach other Human Beings about how we created Human Beings. This is Infinity. This is Heaven and we are remembering why we are doing all this... BECAUSE IT'S FUN!!!

[megafish33]

If you have joined Islam , To that he is called to be sincere.

But you have envy and that means that you want the extermination of Islam and Muslims.....but..I tell you what...YOU GONNA DIE...and you gonna see ALL YOUR LIFE how Islam turns bigger and how the people turn muslims every day....You gonna die and you gonna left Islam in a better way.... so ... you gonna die with your envy...you gonna die furious..:D

Evolution its a fraud....

Hey PT,

I would argue the point that Islam isn't all about sincerity, it's about submission. What does Islam mean?

I want illumination, not extermination, of anyone or anything, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. Again, as I mentioned, if I was that envious, I would have joined. In fact, as far as religions go, Islam is the one I would be the least envious of, Zen Buddhism would be at the top and Judaism in the middle. I don't want extermination of Muslims. If that would occur I'd loose friends and family quite rapidly. Hitler had a similar idea, do you think I share his views? What I want is a spiritual evolution to occur. I want people to wake up from glorifying death, violence, and beating of wifes. I don't even want your religion to be exterminated, or the other ones. I think they've shaped our planet and we should always have them to look into.

I acknowledge the growth of Islam PT, but that doesn't mean I'm going to look at it as if it's some sort of holy truth. I also acknowledge the vast networks the Jesuits use to control parts of the world, this type of bigger is certainly not better.

You also seem a bit obsessed with death, particularly mine in this case, why is that? Is that how you always were, or did someone teach you to think how others may be envious of Muslims as they're on their deathbed?

What is evolution defrauding you of? How do you explain things? Do you have your own version? I know what your religious beliefs are and that you practice spirituality in your own, but can you, based on your observation, or the established observations of others, explain how you and all other animals came to be? Without quoting Qu'ran or the websites of Muslims? If you are sincere, as you claim to be due to your Islamic education, you can probably share your own thoughts.

Thank you for the book, I downloaded it and plan on reading it. You should read Evolution: The Triumph of An Idea by Carl Zimmer.

Do you like chemistry?

[james777]

Nah, he can't do that. He has a book to answer all his questions and form his opinions for him. It's sad....he's a really nice guy and has so much thought potential! :(




Love & Peace!

Soglad

Very judemental.........I thought the 'Mods' were supposed to be 'fair and balanced' like Bill O'Reilly......

[mr_moon]

Originally Posted by soglad

Nah, he can't do that. He has a book to answer all his questions and form his opinions for him. It's sad....he's a really nice guy and has so much thought potential!




Love & Peace!

Soglad


James777: Very judemental.........I thought the 'Mods' were supposed to be 'fair and balanced' like Bill O'Reilly......

Hello!

Judgement always seems to reply with Judgement... why is this? Sarcasm always seems to be responded to with sarcasm... also, why is this?

If one doesn't resonate well with what another person says, then the most wonderful way to deal with it is to accept it, allow it into your being through mental absorption and treat it as a lesson in awareness of other human beings.

It doesn't matter who thinks this and who thinks that as it is not our place to judge another person for who they are. We always seem to try and 'teach' people the best way to behave, the best way to 'think' but this is a result of conditioning as we have grown older. We 'believe' and sub-consciously operate in the realm of trying to change each other, trying to change how things are all the time because for the most part- we are struggling with ourselves more than others!

Experience NOT challenging another persons opinion or view- just experience it- and see how it feels. Experience ALLOWING another persons views or opinions to pass through you without effect and if it does affect you, then ask yourself why you may feel the way you feel about it and just observe WITHOUT judgement.

If you allow that experience into your life, your awareness of reality expands...

Much Love
xxxxxxxxx

[infinitely free]

If only Mohammad knew the truth, about DNA...

If only we did - this would be a Heaven

Would we have needed an Allah, or any other daity...?

They were so clever to block our DNA - ain't called Illuminati, for no reason ;)! :)

[positive terror]

You always reproach me my form of writing the topics...but what you don't keep in mind is that all we have been born with an empty mind...ALL OF US....then when we using the reason we choose our roads and ideas.
What I try to say, is that you are also speaking with the ideas that they taught you and you are influenced with the books that you read.
When you request me that I must speak for myself, you don't realize that I am Muslim, my source is the word of Allah.....
Your source....it will be another.
Most of you have as source the words of the humans and of normal people.
I have chosen to have as source of my ideas and practice the words of Allah, the Perfect one....through a human being that has of special that it was the last Messenger of Allah in the earth.
You choose my friends: The Perfection or the doubt.

Greetings :)

[james777]

You always reproach me my form of writing the topics...but what you don't keep in mind is that all we have been born with an empty mind...ALL OF US....then when we using the reason we choose our roads and ideas.
What I try to say, is that you are also speaking with the ideas that they taught you and you are influenced with the books that you read.
When you request me that I must speak for myself, you don't realize that I am Muslim, my source is the word of Allah.....
Your source....it will be another.
Most of you have as source the words of the humans and of normal people.
I have chosen to have as source of my ideas and practice the words of Allah, the Perfect one....through a human being that has of special that it was the last Messenger of Allah in the earth.
You choose my friends: The Perfection or the doubt.

Greetings :)

Nicely said!!

[soglad]

Very judemental.........I thought the 'Mods' were supposed to be 'fair and balanced' like Bill O'Reilly......

From what I've seen, he just copy and pastes.

And that's a cracker! Fair and balanced!!!

Sense of humor! I like it! :D

[positive terror]

Nicely said!!

Thank you my dear friend, Im happy you are here :)

[positive terror]

From what I've seen, he just copy and pastes.

And that's a cracker! Fair and balanced!!!

Sense of humor! I like it! :D

Yes soglad, you see , bu you dont read :D

[soglad]

Yes soglad, you see , bu you dont read :D

I do read it, actually.

I just goes through one ear out the other :(

[positive terror]

I do read it, actually.

I just goes through one ear out the other :(

Im sure you like watch videos, but reading is not your strong point :( .

[soglad]

Im sure you like watch videos, but reading is not your strong point :( .

Nope, I read A LOT. Just not any religious texts.

[positive terror]

Nope, I read A LOT. Just not any religious texts.

Then Im Happy for you,
but you too, you copy the texts of your books in your mind and you paste them here in few words...or not?

[soglad]

Then Im Happy for you,
but you too, you copy the texts of your books in your mind and you paste them here in few words...or not?

I NEVER copy and paste.....EVER.....I speak my mind and soul.

It's a beautiful way of evolving as a soul.

Thinking for yourself.

[positive terror]

I NEVER copy and paste.....EVER.....I speak my mind and soul.

It's a beautiful way of evolving as a soul.

Thinking for yourself.

But ... the problem is : if your way of thinking is wrong?

[soglad]

But ... the problem is : if your way of thinking is wrong?

I don't know.....I can't say it is or isn't.

I don't harm the world around me...I try and be ethical as best I can.

I'm sure you can relate? :confused:

[positive terror]

I don't know.....I can't say it is or isn't.

I don't harm the world around me...I try and be ethical as best I can.

I'm sure you can relate? :confused:

Ethically already I told you that I think that you are a good guy, but your ideas for sure they are not clear and you don't know in what to believe, you have many questions without answer

[kasalt]

This video documents how Islam and Catholicism are both Illuminati creations:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2752180201125236559

[megafish33]

This video documents how Islam and Catholicism are both Illuminati creations:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2752180201125236559

Wow what a great video... :D

[james777]

This video documents how Islam and Catholicism are both Illuminati creations:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2752180201125236559

Yes, I think we're(humans) all to the point now that we understand that all religions, catholic, Islamic, christianity...ect....are all manipulations of the 'Illuminati', in fact many ANTI-ILLUMINATI groups and organisations are in fact, Illuminated! The point is that there is ONE universal truth which all religions sprang from.....there is one God, One Truth and One Absolute, the Illuminati has taken this original truth and has divided it into many different types of belief systems which entrap those who don't understand what is happening.......

........EVERYONE is religious, it just depends on what you believe that classifies your affiliation........sad really, when you think about all the dis-info leading us away from the ONE Ultimate Truth......

[infinitely free]

You always reproach me my form of writing the topics...but what you don't keep in mind is that all we have been born with an empty mind...ALL OF US....then when we using the reason we choose our roads and ideas.
What I try to say, is that you are also speaking with the ideas that they taught you and you are influenced with the books that you read.
When you request me that I must speak for myself, you don't realize that I am Muslim, my source is the word of Allah.....
Your source....it will be another.
Most of you have as source the words of the humans and of normal people.
I have chosen to have as source of my ideas and practice the words of Allah, the Perfect one....through a human being that has of special that it was the last Messenger of Allah in the earth.
You choose my friends: The Perfection or the doubt.

Greetings :)

Greetings to you too, positive

Allah is so perfect to you
But to me he doesn't exist

May be because we are in different 'realities'
In your 'reality' - Allah rules!

In my 'reality' - I rule!

;)

[revolution 9]

Let's all just admit we exist in Hell and were put here to be punished, and then move on, okay?

[kromagg]

Coudn't any of us say we went into a cave, conversed with God and then write some things down?

To play devil's advocate (haha), couldn't one say the same about David Icke?

[abrilliantone]

Greetings to you too, positive

Allah is so perfect to you
But to me he doesn't exist

May be because we are in different 'realities'
In your 'reality' - Allah rules!

In my 'reality' - I rule!

;)

well said infinitely free :) In my 'reality' I rule too:D

[john white]

Wow what a great video... :D

Well...not really. At the end of the day, its 2 hours to end up saying muslims worship lucifer and should all be christians

A solution, it is not!

(And its especially whacked as its a bunch of seventh day adventists who reject catholicism whilst still embracing catholicism's interpretation of Christ (Sol Invictus!))

[john white]

Coudn't any of us say we went into a cave, conversed with God and then write some things down?

To play devil's advocate (haha), couldn't one say the same about David Icke?

And agitating a bit further, why not? Or even better: DO IT FOR REAL

[megafish33]

Well...not really. At the end of the day, its 2 hours to end up saying muslims worship lucifer and should all be christians

A solution, it is not!

(And its especially whacked as its a bunch of seventh day adventists who reject catholicism whilst still embracing catholicism's interpretation of Christ (Sol Invictus!))

John, it's about Jesuit influence in Catholicism and Islam. That is why I thought it was great. The vast majority of people don't understand that.

Good point on the Sol Invictus! lol Yeah, no solution... From on trap to another.
Where you born in religion John?

Have a good one!

[john white]

John, it's about Jesuit influence in Catholicism and Islam. That is why I thought it was great. The vast majority of people don't understand that.

Good point on the Sol Invictus! lol Yeah, no solution... From on trap to another.
Where you born in religion John?

Have a good one!

Yeah, that fair, though even more accurately its about jesuit influence in Shiitte Islam (based on mohammed's sons being considered head of the religion, where as the far larger sunni form is based on the message being paramount) (good old divide and rule). I wonder if the level of direct knowledge in Islam was a threat to the illumies there

I had a country village childhood, so I got a basic sunday school education... my fathers only obvious form of worship was buggering off down the riverbank with his fishing rod, and my mothers only interest in religion was having me out the way so she could make sunday dinner, and giving me a place in the community... my spirituality has been a journey founded in my own experience (starting with a NDE in 1983, when I was 11)

[megafish33]

...where as the far larger sunni form is based on the message being paramount) (good old divide and rule). I wonder if the level of direct knowledge in Islam was a threat to the illumies there

...my spirituality has been a journey founded in my own experience (starting with a NDE in 1983, when I was 11)

It's the message that scares most people. Same with Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism. Why the message? If god can receive all our prayers, why can he not also give us our own simple messages or revelations in a dream or vision?

What is your position? There was a direct knowledge in Islam, as well as other religions, that was for our benefit, yet was a threat to "them" (as opposed to their creation?), so they twisted and spun it around until they made their own doctrines out of it?

You might assume, since I talk about the beheadings and whatnot, that I don't appreciate what Islamic culture has shared with the rest of the West. But I do. Islam gave birth to many scientific minds! I don't deny or forget that. With that said, I'm not envious of Islam nor would I want to be Muslim. :D

I had a NDE as well. Do you believe that many people share similar NDEs? They say that but I've heard some strange ones.

[john white]

It's the message that scares most people. Same with Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism. Why the message? If god can receive all our prayers, why can he not also give us our own simple messages or revelations in a dream or vision?

Well of course.. especially in the christian West, where Islam has always been presented as a religion full of mad bastards who believe something weird (defense of power base). Basically propoganda from the crusades is still ressonating in the collective psyche

What is your position? There was a direct knowledge in Islam, as well as other religions, that was for our benefit, yet was a threat to "them" (as opposed to their creation?), so they twisted and spun it around until they made their own doctrines out of it?

Whatever one finds in any religion that ressonates with the balance of ones own heart is exactly that: a true message. Distortion is easy to find: its always based on duality and egoism, and is the reflection of mans situation, not Gods

Take sumbission for example: the heart of Islam: this is understood as bowing in the dirt before an all judgmental manifestation of Jehovah. but thats the interpretation from the imbalanced users of the message: the spiritual message is to recognise our situation as part of creation, not above creation. To sumbit to god is to submit to our place being in harmony with God: and thus in harmony with creation

You might assume, since I talk about the beheadings and whatnot, that I don't appreciate what Islamic culture has shared with the rest of the West. But I do. Islam gave birth to many scientific minds! I don't deny or forget that. With that said, I'm not envious of Islam nor would I want to be Muslim. :D

I understand completely, and I've had to work to expand my own perceptions. Of course, Love helps with that load

I had a NDE as well. Do you believe that many people share similar NDEs? They say that but I've heard some strange ones.

There are aspects of all consciousness that we all share, just as our individual perspective is unique: that explains both whats in common and whats weird!

[kasalt]

Read Chapter 6 of David Icke's book, The Robot's Rebellion. Here's a brief quote:

"Terrible violence became the means of advancing Mahomet's cause. He changed in character from what would appear to have been a kind and loving man into a tyrant as his religious beliefs and a highly negative energy took him over...Mahomet went to war with any community throughout Arabia who would not accept his rule and his claims to be the prophet of God. This turned a region of communities into a nation determined to spread their new creed throughout the world by whatever means necessary. I have to smile when I hear Moslem religious leaders speaking on the radio, and every time they say 'The Prophet Mohammed' they follow immediately with 'peace and blessings upon him'. I am all for peace and blessings on everyone, including those who Mahomet and his followers murdered in the name of God and those still kept in mental and physical bondage by Moslem fanatics today" (pp. 89, 91).

[kasalt]

I would like to quote further, if I may, from David Icke's "Robots' Rebellion" in order to provide balance and perspective to this subject:

In all these books, like the Bible and Koran, you will find among the incitements and justifications for horrific behaviour some good and virtuous philosophies. The fanatics who, by force, have largely been in control have picked out the former to guide their lives, but others have had the sense and decency of spirit to be guided by the latter. Not every believer in Christianity was a murdering barbarian and nor every Moslem. Across the world today there are hundreds of millions of faithful Christians and Moslems who follow the positive messages in their religious books and reject the violence. There are some wonderful human beings working within the Christian Church and, as I have found in Britain and in my travels through the Middle East, you will not find a kinder, more generous people than the moderate, thinking, Moslems. If they and the moderate Christians had been in control over the centuries then although they would still be following what are, in my view, religions based on myth, at least the slaughter fields would not have been thought necessary...The Moslem fanatics had the same mentality as the Christian fanatics and, had each been born in the other's land, they would have been equally fanatical about the other's religion. We speak of Moslems and Christians, but it's not like that in reality. It is fanatics and thinkers. The religions are simply used as a vehicle for fanaticism. If they did not exist, they would find another expression for their mental and emotional imbalances. In the same way, if the moderate, thinking people did not have a religion through which to express their spirituality, they would find another vehicle for it (pp. 93-94).

[positive terror]

I would like to quote further, if I may, from David Icke's "Robots' Rebellion" in order to provide balance and perspective to this subject:

Well done, good quote, Im not totally agree with him but nice plece to post it.

[archangel]

If Muhammad talked to the Creator,

Why do Muslims confuse the Creator with Aliens?
Why do they say their god is the same as the Jews?
Why do they say Jesus was born of a virgin and prophet of YAWEH (ALIEN)??

[megafish33]

Why do Muslims confuse the Creator with Aliens?
Why do they say their god is the same as the Jews?


Their god came late lol... it was decided by Christians, who never met a guy named Jesus, that they'll need a force in the middle east even if they migrated north and west, so they rolled a blunt, or two, or three.... came up with an idea, and told one of their women to tell her poor husband about "allah," apparently the god of Jews, but new, improved, and Jew-free. Such an innovative religion too... One god, don't eat pork, Jesus not god.... almost as if we already heard it before.... hmmmmmm

[revolution 9]

Judaism is one of those weird religions that keeps getting weirder and makes less sense every time someone upgrades it. So we're on version 3.5 now I think.

[megafish33]

Judaism is one of those weird religions that keeps getting weirder and makes less sense every time someone upgrades it. So we're on version 3.5 now I think.

Don't worry... our local rabbis still await the anointed savor lol It will be time for another new NWO religion soon... :rolleyes: They will use some guy who is g-d, mohammed, and jesus all in one, yet three.... or something like that...

[positive terror]

Don't worry... our local rabbis still await the anointed savor lol It will be time for another new NWO religion soon... :rolleyes: They will use some guy who is g-d, mohammed, and jesus all in one, yet three.... or something like that...

No, no...they will use the mesiah of the jewish people : THE ANTICHRIST.


hahaha Busted!!! :D

[megafish33]

No, no...they will use the mesiah of the jewish people : THE ANTICHRIST.


hahaha Busted!!! :D

Who told you the messiah of Judaism is the "antichrist?" Why did you believe them? That term didn't even exist when the complete Jewish bible came to be.

If the Jewish savior(s) is antichrist, so is the Muslim one.

[positive terror]

Who told you the messiah of Judaism is the "antichrist?" Why did you believe them? That term didn't even exist when the complete Jewish bible came to be.

If the Jewish savior(s) is antichrist, so is the Muslim one.

The Antichrist – a man created by Allaah, who will appear at the end of time because of something that makes Allaah angry. He will spread corruption on earth and will claim divinity, calling on people to worship him. They will be tested by the extraordinary powers that Allaah will grant him, such as causing rain to fall, reviving the earth with vegetation and extracting the treasures of the earth. He will be a young man with a ruddy complexion, short of stature, with curly hair. He will be one-eyed; his right eye will be flat and his other eye will have a thick piece of flesh over it. Written between his eyes will be the word “Kaafir” (disbeliever). Most of those who follow him will be Jews. He will meet his end at the hands of ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary) who will kill him with a spear in Lod, which is in Palestine.

[resistance]

The trouble with religion is that its become institutionalized and exploited by the rulers to enslave the masses (dogmatism) thats not to say that i don't believe in the divine. There is much written about religion which seems to create more questions than answers in these days, thus creating confusion which ultimately creates divide, as we know. The basic message of all religions is one of morality, love, peace, understanding and forgiveness etc, however once yu start going deeper into religious doctrine many people lose sight of the very thing that religion is supposed to stand for in the first place! most religious doctrine is about as useful as being hit on the head with a lump hammer (in fact that may be of more use in some cases) to know the divine is to free your mind of wicked rule, meaningless guilt, arrogance, greed, aggression, biased opinions and all the other cancers of the mind that dogma seems to create, this is insanity.
I do believe however that such people as jesus and Mohamed did walk the earth and i also believe that they were good men who's main purpose was to free the people from wicked enslavement (mental, spiritual and physical) and also to point out that the way the upper classes behave and rule the world is not good and will thus end in destruction if we do not seek to change things. Prophets always create controversy which in turn causes revolution, so prophets are always persecuted and so is there teaching, so it takes little thought to realize that accounts after would be filtered of all radical teachings and subjects that may create unrest against the system for the benefit of the people. They then, i say they meaning the (so called high priests and authorities) flood the accounts with meaningless doctrine rather than the meaningful teachings of a liberating spiritual nature (mainly the bible) thus confusing the people and hiding the real message.
Something of note is that the wicked world order is choosing to take their fight to Islam, i must salute these Muslims for standing up against these wicked deceivers and hope that one day all people will unite and stand up and be counted, no matter what race, religion or colour.

resistance.

[archangel]

Here is a picture of his space ship

http://www.2012.com.au/yahweh_cover.gif

[blue]

Hi, Positive Terror

I'd be happy if you could answer these questions. about receiving 72 virgins in heaven. the martyrs (males) get 72 virgins as reward. what if the martyr is a female (i'm sure there are a lot of females who were martyrs)?? what will she get in heaven. there is no mention about the females and why??

also why is it being explained from the point of view of a male and not female. A women's sexuality is admitted but seen as something to be feared, repressed, and a work of the devil.

also why only 72?? why not one less or one more?

Please answer

[chattanova]

Hi, Positive Terror

I'd be happy if you could answer these questions. about receiving 72 virgins in heaven. the martyrs (males) get 72 virgins as reward. what if the martyr is a female (i'm sure there are a lot of females who were martyrs)?? what will she get in heaven. there is no mention about the females and why??

also why is it being explained from the point of view of a male and not female. A women's sexuality is admitted but seen as something to be feared, repressed, and a work of the devil.

also why only 72?? why not one less or one more?

Please answer

Hey and welcome to the forums blue, you won't get much of answer from positve terror, he's banned from this site.