Help offered with Music esp. Guitar

[passing]

I'm happy to help if I can. Bring on the questions...
:D

[cryst4l]

Hi Passing, Welcome To Icke :)

I have been playing since Dec 08, self taught, and I have learnt all major and minor chords, most barre chords etc.

I can put a few together and have a few good jingles but.... I have hit a brick wall, I just don't know how to progress from here and I am getting a little dis-heartened, any advice?

I have thought about lessons but don't truely want to go down this route, and would rather just jam with people to teach each other things but cannot find anyone or anywhere to do this :(

[passing]

Hi Cryst4l,
it can be disheartening, in fact it's bound to be at times. But after the first three years or so of serious practice I stopped wanting to throw my guitar out of the window.

Here's what Robert Fripp had to say about it::

"What do we do when we can't do anything, have no interest in music, never want to see a guitar again, have no energy for anything at all? Well, we do nothing, but while we are not doing anything we practice for eight hours a day."

As you can see, that's a pretty hardcore attitude (despite the humour) but a very powerful one. You keep going...

But where to go?

I take it from your message that you have learned a lot of chord-shapes etc but they don't fit together into a meaningful whole. This is an all-too common problem, which I believe comes about mainly because most of the people who write books of guitar chords and so on don't understand what they're writing about. I think it may be the crux of your frustration, but in case I'm barking up the wrong tree I won't waffle on right away... however, the solution is to learn (or relearn) the basic major scale and treat (almost) everything else as part of it.

I'll happily expand on that if it's what you want. It would help a lot if you could be more specific about what you want to do (e.g. write and sing your own songs, play rhythm in a covers band, record ambient music, jazz...???)
With best wishes...

[passing]

Freedom comes when you can construct your own chords and scales.

Learning a chord from a picture in a book gives you one small piece of knowledge and no understanding.

If you can understand how chords are constructed (which is simple!) you can give yourself many many such pieces of knowledge, which will be personalised in your own musical direction.

Gotta go...

[bealert]

Hi Passing, Welcome To Icke :)

I have been playing since Dec 08, self taught, and I have learnt all major and minor chords, most barre chords etc.

I can put a few together and have a few good jingles but.... I have hit a brick wall, I just don't know how to progress from here and I am getting a little dis-heartened, any advice?

I have thought about lessons but don't truely want to go down this route, and would rather just jam with people to teach each other things but cannot find anyone or anywhere to do this :(
I can also play only a few chords...i tend to play a few songs i have learnt and vary them..if i make something i like i use that as start to make another song. what chords can you play? just use your imagination. you right hand is more important than your left because once you have learnt the chords this is where the imagination comes from.

[astrochicken]

bealert and crystal4l,


There are only 5 basic shapes on the guitar..

C, A, G, E and D.

Play the chords you know in different shapes.. ie. instead of playing an Am (based on the A-Shape) on the I and II fret, play it in the shape of E (as in Em except you're now playing a barchord on the V fret.)

Or instead of playing an E in the shape of E,
play it on the 2nd fret in the shape of D or
play it on the 4th fret in the shape of C or
play it on the 7th fret in the shape of A etc. etc. etc.

Doing that you'll find ways to make your own chords and play more open strings.. and that's when guitar really starts being fun.

The thing about guitar, from my experience of playing (started age 12.. 26 years ago LOL),
it's easy for a while and then you hit a cliff-face which is unsurmountable.. keep at it, 10 minutes a day, eventually you sail right up and over that cliff, and will find yourself on a largish plateau which is easy for a while, untill you hit that next cliff-face.... ad absurdum.


Patience and perseverence.. nothing worthwhile is easy.


I'll add to patience's noble gesture.. ask away if anyone wants to know specifics.

[passing]

Hi guys,
thanks for your input.

you right hand is more important than your left because once you have learnt the chords this is where the imagination comes from.

Bealert, are you talking about 'playing rhythm', maybe accompanying yourself singing?

If the chords are a given, your 'imagination' may indeed be focused on rhythmic invention, but that's not exclusively a right-hand thing. (I'm sure you know this, I'm not patronising, just making a point.)

You can work at choppy rhythms by damping the strings with the left hand... and with all chord shapes you've got options for hammer-ons and pull-offs (and slides and bends), even if you are playing a simple repeating pair of chords.

I don't agree that one hand is more important than the other. I think it's self-evident that you should aim at a balance, a union. It sounds like you have developed the skills you need in the area of music that interests you, which is great.

If Cryst4l, for example, has similar desires for playing then you might be a better 'consultant' for him/her than me because my mission is to become fluent on the instrument and improvise songs that sound written... do I mean Jazz? ...not really... Music! :D

[passing]

...following on from the two hands and 'imagination' thing...

A big area for 'imagination' in the left hand is/are substitutions.

Start a song with just two chords over and over:

C | G | C | G (rpt.)

The C is your root chord, the 'one' or I.
The G is the Fifth chord, or V. (C major scale goes C D E F G A B)

The I chord is interchangeable with the III and the VI (Third and Sixth) chords.

The III is Em (C D E F G A B)
The VI is Am (C D E F G A B)

So you can play variations like these:

C | G | C | G

Em | G | Em | G

Am | G | Am | G

--- instant imagination for the left hand!

If anyone wants me to explain why these substitute chords are minor, or anything else, just ask.

Cheers.

[astrochicken]

Great idea this thread.

It motivated me to make a wee tutorial vid, if anyone is interested.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpoy1bYE1QY

[passing]

Great idea this thread.
It motivated me to make a wee tutorial vid, if anyone is interested.


Looking forward to watching that later, cheers!

[passing]

A very simple but powerful technique to make things more interesting:

Alternate each chord's deepest/lowest/bassiest root-note with its fifth.

So, to stick with a 2-chord song that endlessly goes C G (4 beats each)

your original 'bass line' was C C C C G G G G

and now it's... C G C G G D G D

...you'll recognise it ;)

[passing]

a wee tutorial vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpoy1bYE1QY

Lovely, that was. Never seen that tuning before!
I can tell you've played that a few times.;)


Now must sleep.

[astrochicken]

Lovely, that was. Never seen that tuning before!
I can tell you've played that a few times.;)


Now must sleep.


Glad you liked it.

I've allways been one for wierd tunings solely because of the voicings you can get out of the guitar without resorting to finger acrobatics. I only started playing in that tuning because i forgot to stick two capos in the case for a gig and had to improvise.
For beginners it's a doddle to play complex ditties with alternating bass lines as you only have to *concentrate* on the melody line and just play the base on open strings.

[passing]

two capos


Eh? Aaaahhh, double-neck guitar! ROCK ON :D

alternating bass lines

Yeah, at about 1:20 in your vid you were doing what I was trying to describe in post 11.

Hoping to get my hands on a webcam soon - maybe we can inspire the masses to take up their guitars!

Nice one.

[astrochicken]

Hoping to get my hands on a webcam soon - maybe we can inspire the masses to take up their guitars!
Nice one.


Fuck the webcam.. get yourself one of these... best toy in a long time ... :)
and it's only about the size of a mobile phone.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31IYQHJ4c5L._SL500_AA280_.jpg
Toshiba Camileo p30 HD


* Product Description: Toshiba Camileo P30 HD - camcorder - flash card
* Product Type: Camcorder - 1080p - Widescreen Video Capture
* Dimensions (WxDxH): 8.2 cm x 3.8 cm x 10.4 cm
* Weight: 135 g
* Localisation: United Kingdom
* Media Type: Flash card
* Flash Memory: 128 MB
* Supported Flash Memory: MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, SDHC Memory Card
* Sensor Resolution: 5.0 Mpix
* Effective Sensor Resolution: Still: 5.0 Mpix
* Shooting Modes: Digital photo mode
* Lens System: 5 x zoom lens - 6.8 mm - 34 mm - f/3.5-3.7
* Focus Adjustment: Automatic
* Min Focus Range: 10 cm
* Digital Zoom: 4 x
* Image Stabiliser: Electronic
* Microphone: Microphone - built-in
* Display: LCD display - TFT active matrix - 2.5" - colour
* Supported Battery: 1 x Li-ion rechargeable battery ( included )




I've seen that on the sainsburys website for £119 (http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/sol/shop/technology/cameras_and_camcorders/camcorders/113810245_toshiba_camileo_p30_hd_camcorder.html?UR L=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sainsburys.co.uk%2Fsol%2Fshop%2 Ftechnology%2Fcameras_and_camcorders%2Fcamcorders% 2F113810245_toshiba_camileo_p30_hd_camcorder.html&network_id=cj&source=cj&affiliate_id=608849), they also have a cheaper model that goes for about 70€ (camileo pro HD) with pretty much identical features.. (missing the full HD, less zoom and the photos have a lower resolution.

[passing]

Fuck the webcam..

Let me get hold of one first. :D

It's that or nothing, I'm sure I'll make do but thanks for the tip - maybe if I get some spare cash...

Cheers







YOU CAN ASK FOR FREE MUSICAL ADVICE ON THIS THREAD
AND PROBABLY GET IT
NO QUESTION WILL BE CONSIDERED DUMB OR PONCEY

[passing]

No webcam yet, but I've made a song to put on this forum:

Vaccination Blues

Please have a listen, it's on MySpace:

www.myspace.com/passingo

Cheers.

[astrochicken]

No webcam yet, but I've made a song to put on this forum:

Vaccination Blues

Please have a listen, it's on MySpace:

www.myspace.com/passingo

Cheers.


Nice!!


How did you do the robot?

[passing]

Nice!!
How did you do the robot?

Cheers!
It's a freeware text-to-speech program, there are loads out there. The tricky fun bit is getting the timing (vaguely) right with the music.

It was an experiment... more to come...



YOU CAN ASK FOR FREE MUSICAL ADVICE ON THIS THREAD
AND PROBABLY GET IT
NO QUESTION WILL BE CONSIDERED DUMB OR PONCEY

[hirschfelder]

I have a guitar question. More of a request. Can you work out the chords to strum an acoustic version of the Fireman Sam theme? That little fill would be nice too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpH5H4gBflM

Here's the words, just bob the appropriate chords on top

When he hears that fire-bell chime, Fireman Sam is there on time.
Putting on his coat and hat, in less than seven seconds flat.

He's always on the scene. Fireman Sam! And his engine's bright and clean. Fireman Sam!
You can not ignore, Sam is the hero next door.

[passing]

Tomorrow night mate, all being well.

Thankyou for bringing this beautiful piece of music to my attention.

cheers

[passing]

E---------------------------------------C#m--------------B7-------E-----------
When he hears that fire-bell chime, Fireman Sam is there on time.

(funny little extra bit:)
E
----------------------------
----------------------------
--6---4---2----------------
--------------6---4---2----
----------------------------
----------------------------

E---------------------------------C#m (stay on it)
Putting on his coat and hat, in less than seven seconds flat.

------E -------------F#m-----A--------B7------------
He's always on the scene. Fireman Sam!

------E -----------------------F#m---A--------B7------------
And his engine's bright and clean. Fireman Sam!


EM7 or D#dim--E----------------F#m-------B7----------------
You can not ignore, Sam is the hero next door.


Well, It's in E, the melody is sung using the notes of E Major.

If it sounds too rocky, drop the B7 and just play B.

If you want it more rocky, play the E and B as E7 and B7... AND where it goes to the EM7 (E Major 7)you can play some horrendous random atonal screaming for about a second :D and then resolve it back to the E. Nice.

The little extra riff bit (and the voice) spells out the chord of E6, which is first choice for jazzing it up a little. :cool:

Hope it works for you.

Oh yeah, the bouncy feel will come from using the alternate bass-note thing discussed earlier in this thread.

[passing]

Oh balls, it's removed all the spaces I put in to separate the chords!

...sorted.

By the way, someone could easily come up with other chords for it. You could just play E all the time except for the B!

[bealert]

Oh balls, it's removed all the spaces I put in to separate the chords!

...sorted.

By the way, someone could easily come up with other chords for it. You could just play E all the time except for the B!
can i ask if you use a plectrum ..i have tried to use one but its like learning all over again and i quickly lose interest...any tips when using one

[passing]

can i ask if you use a plectrum ..i have tried to use one but its like learning all over again and i quickly lose interest...any tips when using one

Find one you like the shape size and thickness of. You can use a thin one for strumming, a think one for picking solos... I make them out of old bank cards, just chop with scissors until you get the perfect size and then draw around it to make more!

But I don't use them much because I drop them and have to play fingerstyle anyway. :rolleyes:

[bealert]

Find one you like the shape size and thickness of. You can use a thin one for strumming, a think one for picking solos... I make them out of old bank cards, just chop with scissors until you get the perfect size and then draw around it to make more!

But I don't use them much because I drop them and have to play fingerstyle anyway. :rolleyes:
yep i do the same thing. I prefer using my fingers so aint that botherd..it would just be nice to be able to play with it though.

[deathcultreject]

I'm happy to help if I can. Bring on the questions...
:D

Does anyone in my area want to swap music lessons for lessons in meditation and or martial arts?

I'm learning keyboards and bass, because I always find keyboard players and bassists very easy to get on with.

[passing]

yep i do the same thing. I prefer using my fingers so aint that botherd..it would just be nice to be able to play with it though.

Practise alternate picking (down up down up) on one string, then two strings, then skipping a string (or two or three). Keep it even and regular and relaxed and speed up gradually. A metronome is very helpful. Play chromatic patterns (eg frets 1 2 3 4) across all the strings and back. Don't rest your picking hand on the guitar or in the long run you'll damage yourself and have to either stop completely or start again with a different technique (as I did, it took years to correct!). And always stop as soon as it hurts!
Cheers

[passing]

Does anyone in my area want to swap music lessons for lessons in meditation and or martial arts?


Can you at least tell us which continent you're on? :D

[deathcultreject]

Can you at least tell us which continent you're on? :D

South Wales.

[hirschfelder]

Whoa, nice one, Passing. Would you believe that there's not a Fireman Sam tab in all of cyberspace? Only a little melody thing on 2 strings. It's beyond my skill to work out most songs, especially complex symphonies like Fireman Sam, so I take my hat off to you

[passing]

Whoa, nice one

Cheers,
have you tried it?

I've had the damn tune going round my head all day!

[hirschfelder]

I've had a little bash, it sounds bob on. When I've mastered it I'll record a heartbreaking unplugged version for you to enjoy on your Ipod

You couldn't do me Jossy's Giant's too, could you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogafcRBl8Uw

Swapping their homework for football
Kicking a ball 'till it's dark

We're called Jossy's Giants
Football's just a branch of science
"Head the ball now!", Jossy calls

JOSSY'S GIANTS

No worries if you can't be arsed. The chord changes are pretty obvious and I suspect mainly majors, so it should only take me a week or so to work out a version that's there or thereabouts

[passing]

I've had a little bash

You couldn't do me Jossy's Giant's too, could you

No worries if you can't be arsed.

Glad you got on with Fireman Sam :)

I might be able to do Jossy this weekend, but I'm a bit of a footballophobe so if I get pissed off with it I'll have to decline! :D

[passing]

South Wales.

Sorry mate, too far for me. But cheers!

[astrochicken]

I've had a little bash, it sounds bob on. When I've mastered it I'll record a heartbreaking unplugged version for you to enjoy on your Ipod

You couldn't do me Jossy's Giant's too, could you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogafcRBl8Uw



Swapping their homework for football
Kicking a ball 'till it's dark

We're called Jossy's Giants
Football's just a branch of science
"Head the ball now!", Jossy calls

JOSSY'S GIANTS




No worries if you can't be arsed. The chord changes are pretty obvious and I suspect mainly majors, so it should only take me a week or so to work out a version that's there or thereabouts

here you go, this'll keep the wains happy ;)



E bm
Swapping their homework for football
A am
Kicking a ball 'till it's dark


E B
We're called Jossy's Giants
E
Football's just a branch of science
A B
"Head the ball now!", Jossy calls
E
JOSSY'S GIANTS

[passing]

Nice one astrochicken :D
Looks like I can put my feet up...

[astrochicken]

Nice one astrochicken :D
Looks like I can put my feet up...


Aye, enjoy your weekend!! LOL

[hirschfelder]

Astrochicken you superstar

I'm gonna have a fine time playing Jossy's Giants and Fireman Sam this weekend. Might go busking

Now, about those Cities Of Gold and Willy Fogg tabs...

[passing]

This time I'm asking for help. :)
Anyone out there fancy doing some vocals on a tune?
It'd have to be done by email somehow, I'd send you a .WAV file I guess...
It's currently called The Test and it's here (http://www.myspace.com/passingo)
Cheers

p.s. I'm aiming at doing 8 or 10 songs...

[passing]

This is so easy and yet so adaptable I have to share it :D

A 12-bar pattern:

I I I I IV IV I I V V I I

A A A A D D A A E E A A

So that's three chords, A E and D :) All very well established...

And...

Use the open A D and E strings as appropriate with one finger on the 11th fret of the adjacent higher string. So you use pairs of strings all the time.

To make minor chords move the finger down to the 10th fret.

Try it with Am and Dm but use the E major for the V chord.

Enjoy!

[microverses]

I've been playing for 20 some years and have certainly hit plenty of walls, been so down that I didn't want to play, ect. Those times still happen, nowadays I go into practice mode, with modes - downpicking, alternate picking - letting my fretting hand do the basics while working on right hand technique - increasing speed.

A great book to learn how to break out of the molds is 'The Guitar Grimoure', absolutely packed.

[passing]

I've been playing for 20 some years and have certainly hit plenty of walls, been so down that I didn't want to play, ect. Those times still happen, nowadays I go into practice mode, with modes - downpicking, alternate picking - letting my fretting hand do the basics while working on right hand technique - increasing speed.

A great book to learn how to break out of the molds is 'The Guitar Grimoure', absolutely packed.

Cheers, I've heard of the Guitar Grimoire but never looked at a copy. Next time I'm in a music shop I'll see if they've got one. I hope it's nothing like the books that make people think C is only ever 032010, for example. Or pages and pages of chord diagrams and other padding.

Have you got any tips on keeping hold of a plectrum? We seem a bit butter-fingered round here... :D