FBI knocked down the towers

[Anders Lindman]

The 911 attack was an FBI operation. I mean, they had become jealous of CIA having so much power with their drug and arms deals and all that.

Ya'll should read some real books for a change, like this prominent description of the war between FBI and CIA:

Amazon.com: Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA (9780679414711): Mark Riebling: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51e7AVxzt6L.@@AMEPARAM@@51e7AVxzt6L

[fccool]

Did FBI held the NORAD back? Did they stage the "training excercises" on the same date? Did they train terrorists in Afganistan? Did they spend a trillion dollars on this operation (the money that dissapeared out of the pentagon)?

Think before you push theories, dude :). FBI is a form of Federal police... and is nothing like CIA - which is a form of secret military agency with virtuallly unlimited funding and branches of which operating completely unsupervised at certain levels.

Thers's only known agency that could pull this off and that would be CIA. I'm not rulling out a possibility of more sicretive organization of which CIA is only a shadow.

[Anders Lindman]

Terrorists in Afghanistan have absolutely nothing to do with the 911 attack, except as a media stunt. Osama was blamed for the attack in order to humiliate CIA and show that they were completely incompetent of doing exactly the thing they were supposed to do, namely protect the U.S. against such attacks. The CIA has no power over NORAD whatsoever, and yes, the FBI worked together with NORAD to set the whole thing up.

[graflok]

Ya'll should read some real books for a change


But, I haven't finished reading my Archie Comics collection yet!

[Anders Lindman]

But, I haven't finished reading my Archie Comics collection yet!

Ok, but after that that book is a good follow up. I haven't read it myself, but the title sounded interesting. ;)

We'll have to wise up to the fact that CIA has not been involved in anything that has to do with the 911 attack. FBI is trying to bring down the CIA. And they have the U.S. military on their side. The Osama tape, for example, was found by the U.S. military, NOT by the CIA. CIA has NOTHING to do with the 911 attack!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry for the ranting, but it's a FACT!!!!!! :D

[Anders Lindman]

I'm tellin' ya, FBI knocked down them towers. FBI's attack on CIA started already on September 11, 2001:

"(AP) A secret office operated by the CIA was destroyed in the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, seriously disrupting intelligence operations."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/11/05/archive/main316911.shtml

[nickatnoon61]

I'm tellin' ya, FBI knocked down them towers. FBI's attack on CIA started already on September 11, 2001:

"(AP) A secret office operated by the CIA was destroyed in the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, seriously disrupting intelligence operations."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/11/05/archive/main316911.shtml

Thanx Anders, but whether it was CIA, FBI, NSA, Mossad, or a collective effort, it sure wasn't
Iraq, or Afghanistan that was involved! They are just more victims.

[Anders Lindman]

Thanx Anders, but whether it was CIA, FBI, NSA, Mossad, or a collective effort, it sure wasn't
Iraq, or Afghanistan that was involved! They are just more victims.

You can add CIA to the list of victims. CIA uses Morgan Stanley and Bank of America to launder money from illegal drug traffic and weapons sale. Hence Morgan Stanley and Bank of America were also victims. Both these banks had massive increase in put option trade just before the attack, so some people knew beforehand that these banks would be victims.

[Anders Lindman]

FBI and the U.S. military benefited from the 911 attack, not CIA. In fact, CIA's reputation among experts dropped like a stone when they after so many years of preparing for terrorist attacks could not prevent it when it actually happened. That was a huge loss of face for the CIA.

[nickatnoon61]

FBI and the U.S. military benefited from the 911 attack, not CIA. In fact, CIA's reputation among experts dropped like a stone when they after so many years of preparing for terrorist attacks could not prevent it when it actually happened. That was a huge loss of face for the CIA.

ANDERS, I can't seem to find any teardrops for the CIA or any banks!!! I guess I am just a heartless bastard!!!:D

[Anders Lindman]

ANDERS, I can't seem to find any teardrops for the CIA or any banks!!! I guess I am just a heartless bastard!!!:D

We should make a distinction between the organizations and the people working in those organizations. Most are ordinary people. Some people within these organizations are surely nasty, but they are psychopaths, not really evil. One of the traits of a psychopath is that he or she will always blindly follow orders. That is a mental deviation (some would call it disorder), and not something inherently evil. And when there are evil actions, then that is the human shadow in action. Again, a mental imbalance. Therefore I think it is smarter to blame the organizations than the people working in them. If I would decide I would let all the people working in nasty organizations off the hook.

We need a free and open society, and if people commit serious crimes the police should deal with them and the court will put them in prison.

[cruise4]

"Therefore I think it is smarter to blame the organizations "

This is exactly what they want and exactly what they have set up. There is never any resignations anymore, no personal responsibility, sideways promotion, a 'blame the system', 'blame inter-communication'. Basically blame everything BUT the person doing it.

Personal responsibility and personal culpability. There is no other way.

[Anders Lindman]

"Therefore I think it is smarter to blame the organizations "

This is exactly what they want and exactly what they have set up. There is never any resignations anymore, no personal responsibility, sideways promotion, a 'blame the system', 'blame inter-communication'. Basically blame everything BUT the person doing it.

Personal responsibility and personal culpability. There is no other way.

Yeah, but with great responsibility comes great power. Someone just following orders has zero responsibility, hence zero power. A chimera of power is all that it is. And that will become more and more obvious as the power pyramid starts crumbling to dust. Even the top leaders in the power pyramid only have power because they can fool people. That's a cramp that they will not be able to hold on to for much longer.

[Anders Lindman]

"On September 27, 2001, the FBI released photos of the 19 hijackers, along with information about the possible nationalities and aliases of many. The FBI investigation into the September 11, 2001 attacks, code named operation PENTTBOM, was the largest and most complex investigation in the history of the FBI, involving over 7,000 special agents. The United States government determined that al-Qaeda, headed by Osama bin Laden, bore responsibility for the attacks, with the FBI stating that evidence linking Al-Qaeda and bin Laden to the attacks of September 11 is clear and irrefutable."

"...was harshly critical of senior CIA officials for not doing everything possible to confront terrorism, including failing to stop two of the 9/11 hijackers, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar, as they entered the United States and failing to share information on the two men with the FBI"

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks

You have to understand folks, that CIA has been left out. It's the FBI that has been running the 911 show.

[cruise4]

"Someone just following orders has zero responsibility"

He has ALL the responsibility. He CHOSE to put himself in that position. He assumed responsibilty when he DECIDED to take part. If he follows orders that are immoral there is no getting around the immorality.

You could only argue that in the real world fear plays a part so mitigation may come into play. Thats why we have judgements.

[Anders Lindman]

"Someone just following orders has zero responsibility"

He has ALL the responsibility. He CHOSE to put himself in that position. He assumed responsibilty when he DECIDED to take part. If he follows orders that are immoral there is no getting around the immorality.

You could only argue that in the real world fear plays a part so mitigation may come into play. Thats why we have judgements.

But you see, real 'position' is not something that can be given to you or something that you can strive for in a competitive way. Real position comes only through responsibility. Not power first and responsibility after. That meaning, that positions within the power pyramid are phony positions of power, not real positions of power.

[Anders Lindman]

positions within the power pyramid are phony positions of power, not real positions of power.

What I am trying to say is that real positions of power have a solid foundation in responsibility. Otherwise the position of power is just a silly 'status' position, like a king sitting in an ivory tower and ruling people, or a baboon alpha male who has reached to the top of the hierarchy by bullying those lower in rank, or a masonic degree achieved by licking the arses of those above. So our whole system of power today throughout the whole world is just a childish pyramid of cards that is based on status instead of responsibility. If power positions were really based on responsibility then it would not be possible to have power without responsibility. The fact that today, there are positions of power where responsibility can be neglected only means that those positions are fake.

[Anders Lindman]

"The Commission also relied heavily on the FBI's PENTTBOM investigation."

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report

The 9/11 Commission Report relied heavily on an FBI report but not on a CIA report? I wonder why. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's likely a duck.

[Anders Lindman]

"Congressional testimony indicates that the FBI was able to identify the 19 hijackers within a matter of days as few suspects made any effort to conceal their names on flight, credit card, and other records"

From: PENTTBOM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice that the FBI was able to identify the 19 hijackers.

According to Wikipedia, CIA's primary function is: "obtaining and analyzing information about foreign governments, corporations, and persons in order to advise public policymakers." So wasn't it CIA's job to identify the foreign hijackers? :confused:

[fccool]

Anders, don't be naive. Telling that FBI can damage CIA is like saying that you can outrun military jet on a bike. CIA specializations are primarily that - covert operations. You have compartments within compartments within compartments of people who are not exactly sure who they are working for. THey have no names, they have no guilt, they have no accountability. When Kennedy was about to disband CIA... he gets killed. The presidents would not even dare to go against this organization. FBI gains nothing from knocking the buildings down. CIA gains more control and more funding. Personally I don't think any of these organisations were the architechts of the plan, but I think both of these Played their roles. So I would not just pin one organization as culprits. FBI has no control over NORAD. If they would walk in the building and told people to stop, they would more likely to get booted and fired. CIA can do anything... mostly because they "don't exist" :).

[Anders Lindman]

Anders, don't be naive. Telling that FBI can damage CIA is like saying that you can outrun military jet on a bike. CIA specializations are primarily that - covert operations. You have compartments within compartments within compartments of people who are not exactly sure who they are working for. THey have no names, they have no guilt, they have no accountability. When Kennedy was about to disband CIA... he gets killed. The presidents would not even dare to go against this organization. FBI gains nothing from knocking the buildings down. CIA gains more control and more funding. Personally I don't think any of these organisations were the architechts of the plan, but I think both of these Played their roles. So I would not just pin one organization as culprits. FBI has no control over NORAD. If they would walk in the building and told people to stop, they would more likely to get booted and fired. CIA can do anything... mostly because they "don't exist" :).

I must admit that I don't know much about this. But that also means I can afford to make a complete fool out of myself. :o

Ok, let's say that the CIA is much more powerful than the FBI. But isn't it true that the U.S. military have their own intelligence power, a power that could easily match CIA's power? My idea was that the FBI and the U.S. military intelligence are working together against the CIA. FBI could perhaps not have controlled NORAD, but couldn't the U.S. military intelligence have controlled NORAD?

[nickatnoon61]

"On September 27, 2001, the FBI released photos of the 19 hijackers, along with information about the possible nationalities and aliases of many. The FBI investigation into the September 11, 2001 attacks, code named operation PENTTBOM, was the largest and most complex investigation in the history of the FBI, involving over 7,000 special agents. The United States government determined that al-Qaeda, headed by Osama bin Laden, bore responsibility for the attacks, with the FBI stating that evidence linking Al-Qaeda and bin Laden to the attacks of September 11 is clear and irrefutable."

"...was harshly critical of senior CIA officials for not doing everything possible to confront terrorism, including failing to stop two of the 9/11 hijackers, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar, as they entered the United States and failing to share information on the two men with the FBI"

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks

You have to understand folks, that CIA has been left out. It's the FBI that has been running the 911 show.

Anders, These orgs. are all one and the same and answer to the same hierarchy. If you believe anything that comes from the FBI, then you are on drugs!!! You got any left over???:D

[Anders Lindman]

Anders, These orgs. are all one and the same and answer to the same hierarchy. If you believe anything that comes from the FBI, then you are on drugs!!! You got any left over???:D

My initial post in this thread was about the book "Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA".

One of the reviews:

"Any illusions that the two organizations simply mirror each other are thoroughly shattered. Riebling meticulously traces the continuing conflict and its consequences, which sometimes took the form of Keystone Cop episodes but more often were deadly serious." -- Houston Chronicle

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a battle going on behind the public scene. On one side we have the FBI and the U.S. military intelligence. And on the other the CIA.

[nickatnoon61]

My initial post in this thread was about the book "Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA".

One of the reviews:

"Any illusions that the two organizations simply mirror each other are thoroughly shattered. Riebling meticulously traces the continuing conflict and its consequences, which sometimes took the form of Keystone Cop episodes but more often were deadly serious." -- Houston Chronicle

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a battle going on behind the public scene. On one side we have the FBI and the U.S. military intelligence. And on the other the CIA.

My point is, there are no "good guys" here,like portrayed on the idiot box!!!

[fccool]

My point is, there are no "good guys" here,like portrayed on the idiot box!!!

It's funny how everything is set up as one good guy is trying to change the government. That's the way bush pushed through the elections... as a "good guy" who would not let his interns blow him :). But essentialy what you get is worse than before. People like Ron Paul have not breath at even making it through primaries. People are too dillusional to see what really is going on. I've talked to one of my friends who is a devout "christian", and he was trying to show me how United States is the beacon of freedom and prosperity :). I just smiled. You can't argue with these people. These beliefs were developed over decades and telling him anything other than he beliefs (that he really is a mind control slave and there is no freedom) will only make him believe his point even more so. So most of the times I just ask questions... like.

1) Why do US spends more money on defence than the rest of the world combined? Why is it ok for them to station troops everywhere in the world, but when other countries are trying to do the same they scream bloody murder?

2) Where does US money come from and why does it worth so much more than any other currencies? Can you explain it to me in detail?

3) Why do we pay more than 50% of our income in taxes? If you think it's less then add up income tax, sales taxes, gas taxes, government fees and tariffs and licenses, business taxes that are included in the price of the products that we buy... you get a conciderable amount which is far more than 50%. If we live in a free country, should I have a choice of not paying for the stuff that I don't want to use.... such as public schools and etc?

4) What makes your work so much more valuable than the person who does the same work in third world country? He gets 50$ a month, and you get $2500. Could this be the secret behind the "American prosperity"?

5) Why do we need "churches". Every single one of these claims to have the truth, yet the majority of the money they collect are spent on buildings and salaries... so why not just donate the money directry to people who need it most? Isn't organized religious hierarchy almost always resorts to fanatism and preservation of this hierarchy at any cost... even the cost of the truth? If you make people dependent on the system, whould they make an efford to take care of the hand that feeds?

6) Why should I feel patriotic about living in any country. Isn't a country just an artificial construct? Aren't the people in other countries are the same as us and have the same body structure and organs underneath their skin, and have the same basic needs and wants? The only difference is where we born.


You know, asking questions sometimes is more effective than actually saying anything. They try to answer those, and you can see that they learned to lie to themselves, but you can also see that deep down they know that they are lying... and soon they start to question too. You just need to find the right questions to ask.

[nickatnoon61]

It's funny how everything is set up as one good guy is trying to change the government. That's the way bush pushed through the elections... as a "good guy" who would not let his interns blow him :). But essentialy what you get is worse than before. People like Ron Paul have not breath at even making it through primaries. People are too dillusional to see what really is going on. I've talked to one of my friends who is a devout "christian", and he was trying to show me how United States is the beacon of freedom and prosperity :). I just smiled. You can't argue with these people. These beliefs were developed over decades and telling him anything other than he beliefs (that he really is a mind control slave and there is no freedom) will only make him believe his point even more so. So most of the times I just ask questions... like.

1) Why do US spends more money on defence than the rest of the world combined? Why is it ok for them to station troops everywhere in the world, but when other countries are trying to do the same they scream bloody murder?

2) Where does US money come from and why does it worth so much more than any other currencies? Can you explain it to me in detail?

3) Why do we pay more than 50% of our income in taxes? If you think it's less then add up income tax, sales taxes, gas taxes, government fees and tariffs and licenses, business taxes that are included in the price of the products that we buy... you get a conciderable amount which is far more than 50%. If we live in a free country, should I have a choice of not paying for the stuff that I don't want to use.... such as public schools and etc?

4) What makes your work so much more valuable than the person who does the same work in third world country? He gets 50$ a month, and you get $2500. Could this be the secret behind the "American prosperity"?

5) Why do we need "churches". Every single one of these claims to have the truth, yet the majority of the money they collect are spent on buildings and salaries... so why not just donate the money directry to people who need it most? Isn't organized religious hierarchy almost always resorts to fanatism and preservation of this hierarchy at any cost... even the cost of the truth? If you make people dependent on the system, whould they make an efford to take care of the hand that feeds?

6) Why should I feel patriotic about living in any country. Isn't a country just an artificial construct? Aren't the people in other countries are the same as us and have the same body structure and organs underneath their skin, and have the same basic needs and wants? The only difference is where we born.


You know, asking questions sometimes is more effective than actually saying anything. They try to answer those, and you can see that they learned to lie to themselves, but you can also see that deep down they know that they are lying... and soon they start to question too. You just need to find the right questions to ask.
You are perceptive Fccool. Ask the Christians why they worship a God that tells them not to judge, yet is a vengeful judging God. A little contradictory eh? Sometimes it is best to zip it and just listen. That is the wise man's way!:)

[fccool]

You are perceptive Fccool. Ask the Christians why they worship a God that tells them not to judge, yet is a vengeful judging God. A little contradictory eh? Sometimes it is best to zip it and just listen. That is the wise man's way!:)

There are more contradictions than that :) and I'd be the first one to point those out... Some of the obvious ones:

13Thou shalt not kill.
17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death


And there's always numerous "explanations" that follow up if you ask about these... And the answer is almost always... you have to have faith :). BUT you don't have to believe bulshit. You have a choice. Don't throw baby with bathwater so to speak. I did not ask to be born, and nobody asked me either. I did not ask for my body structure and the place of my birth. I'm not unhappy and I'm gratefull to my parents for not using contraceptives that fatefull night :). Would they be wrong to let me dry off on their bed sheets so to speak :rolleyes:? If so, then every person in the world is murderer and sadist. But I don't think I would protest, because I would not even know. If God is God then he can do whatever the hell He wants... it's his business and I don't have a say. BUT I don't have to put up with bulshit people who are claiming to know what God's will is and that they know what is the best thing for me to do.
If he does not exist then it does not really matter what anybody thinks about his existance... because in the long run we are all dead. But I would not go around making my job proving other people are wrong. Because I don't know if they are or not :). I don't know if I am right or wrong. So the best I can do is to give them my opinions and ask some questions. I'm sure eventually we will figure things out.

[Anders Lindman]

Below are texts from the Report of the Joint Inquiry into the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, December 2002

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_rpt/911rept.pdf

In this report FBI is presented as good, good and CIA as bad, bad. Well you get the picture.

Here are some texts from the report:

The CIA missed repeated opportunities to act based on information in its possession that these two Bin Ladinassociated terrorists were traveling to the United States, and to add their names to watchlists.

In mid- to late2000, the CIA already had information indicating that al-Mihdhar had a multiple entry U.S. visa and that al-Hazmi had in fact traveled to Los Angeles, but the two had not been watchlisted and information suggesting that two suspected terrorists could well be in the United States had not yet [page xiii] been given to the FBI.

Since 1995, the CIA had been aware of a radical Islamic presence in Germany, including individuals with connections to Usama Bin Ladin. Prior to September 11, 2001, the CIA had unsuccessfully sought additional information on individuals who have now been identified as associates of some of the hijackers.

The CIA’s failure to watchlist suspected terrorists aggressively reflected a lack of emphasis on a process designed to protect the homeland from the terrorist threat. As a result, CIA employees failed to watchlistal-Mihdhar and al-Hazmi.

Senior U.S. military officials were reluctant to use U.S. military assets to conduct offensive counterterrorism efforts in Afghanistan, or to support or participate in CIA operations directed against al-Qa’ida prior to September 11. At least part of this reluctance was driven by the military’s view that the Intelligence Community was unable to provide the intelligence needed to support military operations.

Despite having all this information, and despite the republication of CTC guidance regarding watchlisting procedures in December 1999 (see Appendix, “CTC Watchlisting Guidance – December 1999”), CIA did not add the names of these two individuals to the State Department, INS, and U.S. Customs Service watchlists that are used to deny individuals entry into the United States. The weight of the record also suggests that, despite providing the FBI with other, less critical, information about the Malaysia meeting, the CIA did not advise the FBI about al-Mihdhar’s U.S. visa and the very real possibility that he would travel to the United States. The CIA stated its belief that the visa information was sent to the FBI and produced a cable indicating that this had been done.

The following day, March 6, CIA Headquarters received a message from another CIA station noting its “interest” in the first cable’s “information that a member of this group had traveled to the U.S.” The CIA did not act on either message, again did not watchlist al-Hazmi or al-Mihdhar, and, again, did not advise the FBI of their possible presence in the United States.

On January 4, 2001, CIA acquired informationthat Khallad, a principal planner in the bombing of USS Cole, had, along with al-Mihdhar and al-Hazmi, attended the January 2000 meeting in Malaysia. Again, the CIA did not watchlist these two individuals.

Although the CIA told FBI Headquarters about the Malaysia meeting and about al-Mihdhar’s travel in Southeast Asia at that time, the CIA did not advise the FBI about al-Mihdhar’s or al-Hazmi’s possible travel to the United States.

On June 11, 2001, FBI Headquarters and CIA personnel met with the New York FBI field office agents who were handling the USS Cole investigation. The New York agents were shown the Malaysia photographs, but were not given copies. Although alMihdhar’s name was mentioned,theNew York agents’ requests for more information about al-Mihdhar and the circumstances surrounding the photographs were refused, according to one of the field office agents.

Again, in that meeting, the CIA had missed yet another opportunity to advise the FBI about al-Mihdhar’s visa and possible travel to the United States and, again, the CIA took no action to watchlist these individuals. Just two days later, al-Mihdhar obtained a new U.S. visa and, on July 4, 2001, he re-entered the United States.

In mid- to late-2000, the CIA already had information indicating that al-Mihdhar had a multiple entry U.S. visa and that al-Hazmi had in fact traveled to Los Angeles, but the two had not been watchlisted and information suggesting that two suspected terrorists could well be in the United States had not yet been given to the FBI.

Since 1995, the CIA had been aware of a radical Islamic presence in Germany, including individuals with connections to Usama Bin Ladin. Prior to September 11, 2001, the CIA had unsuccessfully sought additional information on individuals who have now been identified as associates of some of the hijackers.

The CIA’s failure to watchlist suspected terrorists aggressively reflected a lack of emphasis on a process designed to protect the homeland from the terrorist threat. As a result, CIA employees failed to watchlist al-Mihdhar and al-Hazmi.

As noted earlier, the record confirms instances where, despite numerous opportunities, information that was directly relevant to the domestic threat was simply overlooked and not disseminated in a timely manner to the FBI. For example, the CIA analyst who neglected to raise the information concerning al-Mihdhar and al-Hazmi’s U.S. travel in a June 2001 meeting with the FBI in New York said in a Joint Inquiry interview that the information he had learnedconcerning the pair’s travel to Los Angeles “did not mean anything to him.”

The CIA’s inconsistent performance regarding the watchlisting of suspected terrorists prior to September 11 also suggests a lack of attention to the domestic threat.

[fccool]

Anders,

Can't you see what's going on here? USA spends oficcialy spends half a trillion a year on defence and unoficialy another 100 billion a year on "intelligence gathering" activities. Pentagon is the center of the most protected and most funded military force in the world. If you put a book on the street, the US military has technology to read it's cover from space given the coordinates. BUT.

A handful of people magically avoided all of the technology and successfully executed their plan with military precision on 911.

If you care to know what I think really happened on that day... here I go:

Controlling the world is not an easy task. For it to happen people will have to ask for it. They have to ask to be controlled. They have to ask to be protected, they have to be tired of all the wars, famine, economic destabilization, government corruption and chaos. Normal people just want to be left alone so they get on with their lives. So understanding that, you have to slowly work generation upon generation to mold the world into excepting the idea of global unity out of the universal chaos.

How did US become the superpower? US dollar was pushed as a global currency. People were decieved to believe that it is better than gold. It is better and stable than anything else because of what US is becoming.... an empire. Every single empire backs their money by strong military. Us is not an exception. The thing you have to realize that US is a stepping stone to the global government. NWO is the next step. How so?

Before USA emmerged, the world was a relatively split up place with little to none global connection. What changed with arrival of the American Empire is the global economy that it brough about by it's hegemony of the dollar. People save up in dollars, they keep dollars in the foreign banks, and they believe it has value.

This is the way the tribute is paid to the US Empire. It collects tribute by exporting paper and getting goods and services in return. As a result the people who live inside of the empire prosper, and people who are outside of the empirial borders are feeding on its crumbs. It's ludicrous if you think about it. People in Asia work their asses to save up some US dollars, yet all they get is paper or digits in return.

But what is different about US Empire, not only that it feeds of the rest of the world... it is in deep debt to it. Emperial powers created illusion that this is the best way to run things. You have american economists teaching other economists about the best way to run things .... by expanding credit, and borrowing and spending. But everybody in the world can't do it obviously :). So the world think that everything is ok and it will stay this way. BUT one single word can destroy the Empire in mere minutes.... and this word is SELL. What happens then, is all of those Asian countries with trillions of dollars on their hands would rush to US to buy off anything they can... and it will be over. The panic would be global.

So how does that relates to 911? Without 911 it would take a loong time to destroy US economy in a way that it would make some major damage worldwide. For the NWO to come the collapse has to shake the monks in tibethian mountains. For for NWO to come all of the people will have to loose trust in the current governmnets... and it will happen.

You see, 911 is a giant set up to accomplish both of the above described goals. All of the clues were left behind and eventually point to government as the orchestrator of 911 were meant to do so. Once the economy collapses who do you think people will blame... the terrorists :)? They will blame the governments. Every single empire went out that way. These cannibalized themselves. The fall of USA had to be accelerated to give way to the new Global economy with new global police and global government. People will ask for it after a couple of months of lack of electricity and drinking water. Happened before... and will happen again.

So don't zoom in too far when examining events. You might miss the big picture, and I think most of the people in the Truth movement do. They run according to their primal instincts. They don't even suspect a possibility of them being manipulated to bring about the NWO. They will be the engine that brings it about ironically. And that's the genious of the people behind everything.... they make their enemies do their jobs for them. So, my advice is try not to rush to conclusions and point fingers on trivial matters. See the big picture. The big picture is pretty daunting to even think about... how did we get so far in such a short period of time? Once you see the big picture, the small events will make sence.

[Anders Lindman]

they make their enemies do their jobs for them. So, my advice is try not to rush to conclusions and point fingers on trivial matters. See the big picture.

That's a good point. The big picture is likely the banking system.

Yet, identifying a secret battle between the FBI and CIA can bring up new understandings about how the whole thing is actually set up. It's important to not loose the big picture, but it's equally important to not neglect concrete specific details.

[Anders Lindman]

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The FBI conducted a secret investigation of Central Intelligence Agency officials on charges of attempting to murder Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in 1995, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday.

"The story behind the FBI's criminal probe of the CIA's covert action program in northern Iraq is a complex tale of bitter rivalries, plots and counterplots," it said.

From: http://www.serendipity.li/cia/saddam.html

[Anders Lindman]

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a battle going on behind the public scene. On one side we have the FBI and the U.S. military intelligence. And on the other the CIA.

Correction. In the blue corner we have FBI and NASA. In the red corner the U.S. military, CIA, FEMA and so on.

JFK was working for FBI/NASA, and he was killed because had come to understand parts of the real FBI/NASA agenda.

NASA manipulated NORAD to not be able to respond adequately during the 911 attack, and it was NASA high-tech explosives that pulverized the World Trade Center buildings.

:D

[chris]

Anders that's an interesting postulate. I had not thought of that one before...

Still Tarpley’s book 'synthetic terror' is very good reading and he goes into the inner world of intelligence agencies...There is a very grey area of agents, double agents and triple agents...It just seems to be very hard to say one agency is the aggressor and another is the patsy. If that were true then the FBI would have to infiltrate the CIA to utilize a kind of LIHOP on their part...

Parts of the CIA had to of known that something was going on, it turns out almost the whole world did, even school children and navy seals...

How about GHW Bush's connections to the CIA and his prior knowledge of September 11th years ago? That doesn't fit well within the FBI did it frame.

However it does seem that the blame is being put onto the CIA and would like to read that book as it seems very interesting.

I find it so hard when learning about internal battles because there is no certain evidence because it can easily be disinfo, this is especially true with Russia and China. All I can do is take in as much info as possible and then as events emerge, see what side of the argument the events rest upon.

You never know, this book might be an attack from the CIA onto the FBI to square the blame onto them (this is where you can drive yourself crazy).

[Anders Lindman]

it does seem that the blame is being put onto the CIA

Yes, it looks like it. Imagine for a moment that foreign terrorists had nothing to do with the 911 attack other than as a wag-the-dog media stunt, AND as a trick to frame the CIA and make them appear totally incompetent. Who would benefit from such scenario? Not the CIA. That much is clear.

[cruise4]

"I must admit that I don't know much about this. But that also means I can afford to make a complete fool out of myself."

Quality line that Anders... I might use it before every post I make, well on the friendly forums anyway :D

[Anders Lindman]

"I must admit that I don't know much about this. But that also means I can afford to make a complete fool out of myself."

Quality line that Anders... I might use it before every post I make, well on the friendly forums anyway :D

Yeah, it would not be smart to write that on an expert forum and at the same time intend to make the impression of being an expert oneself. :D

[Anders Lindman]

one single word can destroy the Empire in mere minutes.... and this word is SELL. What happens then, is all of those Asian countries with trillions of dollars on their hands would rush to US to buy off anything they can... and it will be over. The panic would be global.


That is absolutely correct. The Debt Monster, excuse me, the Federal Reserve has the control over the tactics that has made China able to bring down the entire U.S. economy within hours. So someone is sitting with a huge gun pointed at the U.S. and they have the power over even the NSA, CIA, FBI and the entire Department of Defense, meaning over the entire U.S. military force.

One guess is that those in control of the Federal Reserve and the Chinese government and the Chinese central bank are the same people. These people are above all intelligence agencies and military forces. :eek:

[Anders Lindman]

One guess is that those in control of the Federal Reserve and the Chinese government and the Chinese central bank are the same people. These people are above all intelligence agencies and military forces. :eek:

I just got a spooky idea. What if the 911 attack was an attempt to bring down the Federal Reserve?

[fist fury]

I just got a spooky idea. What if the 911 attack was an attempt to bring down the Federal Reserve?

Its obvious that Anders is a faker with this "theory" that the FBI was responsible for 9/11. Its another dishonest argument used by disinfo agents to muddle the truth. In the OKC bombing the CIA and FBI were working in conjuction to cover up and create the myth that McVeigh was the lone bomber. It's not whether agencies are against each other, its more that those who head those agencies and have influence in them are part of a elite secret clique.

[matrixcutter]

I just got a spooky idea. What if the 911 attack was an attempt to bring down the Federal Reserve?
The people at the top needed 9/11, had their need for 9/11 published (PNAC), and then made 9/11 happen.

The strings are attached to the same puppet masters when you get to the top. It doesn't really matter which organisations you can identify that were involved, the people at the top wanted it and it happened, at the time they wanted it to happen i.e. the start of the New (American) Century.

The people at the top would not do things which would take aware their own power e.g. bringing down the Federal Reserve, until they have fully prepared the necessary alternative.

[Anders Lindman]

The people at the top needed 9/11, had their need for 9/11 published (PNAC), and then made 9/11 happen.

The strings are attached to the same puppet masters when you get to the top. It doesn't really matter which organisations you can identify that were involved, the people at the top wanted it and it happened, at the time they wanted it to happen i.e. the start of the New (American) Century.

The people at the top would not do things which would take aware their own power e.g. bringing down the Federal Reserve, until they have fully prepared the necessary alternative.

I see it as a pyramid with the capstone missing. Yes, the people at the top desperately wanted the 911 attack to happen. But then we have the capstone of the pyramid. The people in the capstone are those controlling the Federal Reserve AND the Chinese central bank and the rest of the whole monetary system. Follow the money.

The United States has the strongest military force, but one of the most vulnerable monetary situations of all nations. Money is more powerful than intelligence agencies. Money is more powerful than military forces.

The single largest threat to the United States is not nuclear attacks, nor terrorist threats. The biggest threat is the force that can bring down the entire U.S. economy. The Federal Reserve has fostered that threat.

[matrixcutter]

I see it as a pyramid with the capstone missing. Yes, the people at the top desperately wanted the 911 attack to happen. But then we have the capstone of the pyramid. The people in the capstone are those controlling the Federal Reserve AND the Chinese central bank and the rest of the whole monetary system. Follow the money.

The United States has the strongest military force, but one of the most vulnerable monetary situations of all nations. Money is more powerful than intelligence agencies. Money is more powerful than military forces.

The single largest threat to the United States is not nuclear attacks, nor terrorist threats. The biggest threat is the force that can bring down the entire U.S. economy. The Federal Reserve has fostered that threat.
The people in the capstone are above the people controlling the Federal Reserve. But the Federal Reserve is still a source of power to them because of what it achieves and what it prevents.

[Anders Lindman]

The people in the capstone are above the people controlling the Federal Reserve. But the Federal Reserve is still a source of power to them because of what it achieves and what it prevents.

The people running the U.S. government do have control over the Federal Reserve. But they cannot freely use that control. They cannot change the Federal Reserve system, because those with the power to bring down the entire U.S. economy have that monetary gun pointed to their heads.

[matrixcutter]

The people running the U.S. government do have control over the Federal Reserve. But they cannot freely use that control. They cannot change the Federal Reserve system, because those with the power to bring down the entire U.S. economy have that monetary gun pointed to their heads.
The US economy is supposed to crash, and it will, and it will be because they wanted it to, just like they wanted 9/11. The people running the show will profit from this.

[Anders Lindman]

The US economy is supposed to crash, and it will, and it will be because they wanted it to, just like they wanted 9/11. The people running the show will profit from this.

No. The people in the capstone want to keep the monetary gun pointed at the U.S. government. This means that they will not let the U.S. economy crash. The people running the U.S. government on the other hand desperately want to get rid of the monetary gun pointed at their heads.

My hypothesis is that the 911 attack was an attack on the monetary capstone.

[cruise4]

I think its certain the Financial collapse will happen. It has been deliberately planned that way. They want the draft, chipping and martial law and the NAU and once everyone's in the poor house these plans can go ahead as most people still believe the government is there to 'help them'. They will fall for it till the end. You could even see a full scale Nuclear attack by one of the other powers on the US at some point.

they are just about holding the economy from collapse at the moment. they won't be able to do it for long.

[Anders Lindman]

they are just about holding the economy from collapse at the moment. they won't be able to do it for long.

You forget that it is the people in the capstone that is holding the economy from collapsing. The longer they hold on the the fractional reserve banking principle, the more enslaved the population will become. The banking elite would actually lose if the economy totally collapsed, because then fractional reserve banking could be replaced by another monetary system that would rob the elite of their power.

[Anders Lindman]

My guess is that the FBI has far less black-budget operations than the CIA. From the banking elite's point of view, black-budgets are preferable since they foster criminal movements who can be bought with money, and the banking elite not only have a lot of money, they have stupefyingly enormous amounts of money, zillions and zillions of dollars pouring out of their ears. They can easily buy the entire world of organized crime, and they probably already in effect have done so. So the banking elite rely on the criminal side of society for their intimidating power, such as death threats, assassinations and the like. They can hire an entire army of assassins to use as a threat against almost all leaders in the world. It's very, very difficult to protect oneself and one's family against such threats, even with loads of bodyguards.