Another nail in the coffin of all things spooky

[bananaman]

Another nail in the coffin of all things spooky:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2317316.ece

Why being out of the body is all in the mindMark Henderson, Science Editor
To many people who have had an out-of-body experience, they are profoundly spiritual events that reveal how the mind extends beyond the material confines of the body and strengthen beliefs in religion or the paranormal.

The sensation of watching your own body from a distance, however, need owe nothing to the supernatural, research has proved.

Scientists have recreated such out-of-body experiences in the laboratory successfully for the first time, in a pair of experiments that show them to be nothing more than tricks of the mind.

With a combination of virtual-reality goggles and tactile stimulation, researchers in Britain and Switzerland induced volunteers to feel that they have left their bodies to view themselves from a few metres away. The illusion is said to feel as if the subject’s consciousness has been “teleported” elsewhere.

The results could eventually have commercial, medical, scientific and military applications. Similar virtual-reality technology could help surgeons to operate on patients in distant hospitals, and scientists to control hu-manoid robots on the Moon or Mars. Though scientists behind the experiments said they had no ties to military research, the work could be used to improve remote-controlled weaponry.

Henrik Ehrsson, of University College London, who performed one of the two studies published in the journal Science, said they shed important light on the nature of consciousness.

“Out-of-body experiences have fascinated mankind for millennia,” he said. They raised fundamental questions about the relationship between human consciousness and the body, and had been much discussed in theology, philosophy and psychology. “Although out-of-body experiences have been reported in clinical conditions, the neuro-scientific basis of this phenomenon remains unclear.

“The invention of this illusion is important because it reveals the basic mechanism that produces the feeling of being inside the physical body. This represents a significant advance . . . the experience of one’s own body as the centre of awareness is a fundamental aspect of self-consciousness,” Dr Ehrsson said. “If we can project people so they feel and respond as if they were really in a virtual version of themselves, just imagine the implications.”

In his study, volunteers wore goggles, and cameras were placed 2m (6ft) behind the subject, with the feeds connected to the subject’s eyes. The participant thus saw an image of his or her back. Dr Ehrsson stood behind the subject and held two rods. He used one to prod the subject and the other to jab underneath the camera. The participants said they felt they were sitting where the cameras were placed, and that the figure they were watching was another person or a dummy.

“This was a bizarre, fascinating experience for the participants - it felt absolutely real for them and was not scary. Many giggled and said, ‘Wow, this is so weird’.” He said that when he took part, he felt himself move suddenly out of his body. “I see the object coming towards me, feel the touch, then ‘boof!’, I feel a striking sensation that I’m over there looking at myself.”

Out-of-body experiences are often associated with neurological conditions such as migraines and epilepsy, as well as with drug abuse and serious injuries, particularly to the head. They probably come about because the brain is misled by circuits that are not working properly. Dr Ehrsson said: “The brain is always trying to interpret sensory information. If the information is flawed, it can come up with an illusory interpretation.”

In the second experiment, a team at the Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale in Lausanne fitted volunteers with similar goggles, then trained the cameras on a mannequin. The backs of the subject and the mannequin were stroked - though the subject could see only the mannequin. They were blindfolded and moved away, then asked to walk to return to their position. They tended to move towards where they had seen their “virtual bodies”.

Susan Blackmore, of the University of the West of England, said: “Out-of-body experiences should be understood not as evidence for the supernatural, but as a fascinating experience that potentially we can all have.”

Bananaman.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

The shit about OBE is not that you are really GOING out of your body, but your mind is able to explore further than what your eyes can see. It's not an illusion.

Call it Far-Sight if you will.
The trick is not to leave your body, but to relax your mind, and have your sight explore further than what you see with your eyes. Remember, since everthing is made up of vibrations, you sight can also excape it's normal viewing posistion and be else where.

Secondly, these guys said they made these people feel like it, and gave them VR gogles, right?

Well, I didn't see it mention if what the people saw in other rooms or heard in other rooms and such were true or not. How come he didn't mention that?

Because he could be very well payed to say it like that.

[barbitone]

Out-of-body experiences are often associated with neurological conditions such as migraines and epilepsy, as well as with drug abuse and serious injuries, particularly to the head. They probably come about because the brain is misled by circuits that are not working properly. Dr Ehrsson said: “The brain is always trying to interpret sensory information. If the information is flawed, it can come up with an illusory interpretation.”

lol

Yes, I agree, if the information is flawed you can come up with an illusory interpretation indeed.:D

[Anders Lindman]

They miss the point here. 3D five sensory reality is the main 'channel' but there are infinite channels, not separate from, but on a different 'dial'.

Even thought is something that exists in more than 4D as was described in another thread.

[lydia78]

With a combination of virtual-reality goggles and tactile stimulation, researchers in Britain and Switzerland induced volunteers to feel that they have left their bodies to view themselves from a few metres away. The illusion is said to feel as if the subject’s consciousness has been “teleported” elsewhere.


I didn't get virtual reality goggles or tactile stimulation when I had my OBE.....LOL!!

Recreated my ass.

Or a Lab either for that matter.......lolol.

[synergy777]

the power of mind is beyond our comprehension. i think the scientists are right to a degree. obe, when you see you own body/room, have to be outside this. lucid dreaming etc i think is in the mind.

nde when the pulse goes, and you see yourself have to be spiritual, as you are outside, lucid dreaming/meditation have to be mind anchored.

i said this about lucid dreaming, being mental/vr/holodeck. its a training ground for increasing mental strength.

[Anders Lindman]

lucid dreaming etc i think is in the mind.


There are different levels to awareness. For example, lucid dreaming, when I dream and I am aware of it all being a dream, is a different level than ordinary dreaming. However, there is fundamentally no difference between 'in the mind' and 'in reality' other than some thoughts are true and others are false.

[synergy777]

check the dimension thread, i know all about lucid dreaming, i can fly, create worlds, etc, terraform landscapes, its merely an awareness/imagination in play. its not neo, messiah, matrix thing, but merely imagination. i even took the piss out of my neighbours who were listening, when i mastered it, manipulation, lol.

[Anders Lindman]

check the dimension thread, i know all about lucid dreaming, i can fly, create worlds, etc, terraform landscapes, its merely an awareness/imagination in play. its not neo, messiah, matrix thing, but merely imagination. i even took the piss out of my neighbours who were listening, when i mastered it, manipulation, lol.

Call it awareness/imagination, but you cannot deny the fact that lucid dreaming is another level than ordinary dreaming.

[synergy777]

its aware dreaming, its when you are lucid, hence the term lucid dreaming. this astral projection, travelling stuff is not lucid dreaming imho. this astral travelling can only be acheived by trained yogis. in india there are people who meditate/travel, whilst sitting in a meditation pose for days. this is the real soul travel imho.

also remote viewing, psychic abilities are all intertwined.

[Anders Lindman]

its aware dreaming, its when you are lucid, hence the term lucid dreaming. this astral projection, travelling stuff is not lucid dreaming imho. this astral travelling can only be acheived by trained yogis. in india there are people who meditate/travel, whilst sitting in a meditation pose for days. this is the real soul travel imho.

also remote viewing, psychic abilities are all intertwined.

Yeah, I agree. Astral traveling, if that means out of body traveling in the 'real' world is not the same thing as lucid dreaming. The closest thing to astral travel I have done is a near death experience where I could see my own body from above. The near death experience could have been only imagination created by my brain. Lucid dreaming on the other hand is clearly another form of awareness than ordinary dreaming.

[synergy777]

lucid dreaming is dream deluxe, lol

i am more intresteded in psychic/telekinesis/remote viewing etc. thats the next step in evolution, or is it rediscovering unused latent abilities? do we need to take a step back, to go forward?

[lydia78]

the power of mind is beyond our comprehension. i think the scientists are right to a degree. obe, when you see you own body/room, have to be outside this. lucid dreaming etc i think is in the mind.

nde when the pulse goes, and you see yourself have to be spiritual, as you are outside, lucid dreaming/meditation have to be mind anchored.

i said this about lucid dreaming, being mental/vr/holodeck. its a training ground for increasing mental strength.



Empircal science is always going to fall short in it's desperate attempt to qualify OBE experiences as irrelevent.

They really cannot brand OBE as illusion because the recreation of the experiment is not real life, it is lab induced.

Which means this is the results of lab induced OBE not naturally occuring OBE, there's a big difference.

Maybe if they did some qualitative as well as quantitative research on this, we'd find the middle ground.

[Anders Lindman]

lucid dreaming is dream deluxe, lol

i am more intresteded in psychic/telekinesis/remote viewing etc. thats the next step in evolution, or is it rediscovering unused latent abilities? do we need to take a step back, to go forward?

Lucid dreaming has no effect in the 'real' world in my experience. But it shows that a kind of 'waking up within the dream' is possible.

[synergy777]

http://www.occult-underground.com/astral.html

check the 9 dimensiosn thread.

the holographic/electric universe/fibonacci/fractuals/observer effect which leads us to the wave/particle duality. thus supporting the wave/energy field of existence.

huygens

http://www.phys.uu.nl/~huygens/cosmotheoros_en.htm

Cosmotheoros (1698)

During the last years of his life, Christiaan Huygens worked on a "philosophical treatise", addressed to his brother Constantijn, which contained his speculations on the construction of the universe and the habitability of the planets as deduced from his own observations and those of other astronomers.

Although he first planned to write this work in French, he later decided to publish it in Latin instead. Christiaan Huygens finished his manuscript in January 1695 and wrote to Constantijn that he had also found a publisher. On 4 March he wrote to Constantijn that the first page had already been printed but that the printer had not progressed any further. However, Christiaan's health was rapidly deteriorating and on 8 July he passed away. In his last will, drawn up on 23 March, he requested Constantijn to see to it that his book was published

[lydia78]

Lucid dreaming has no effect in the 'real' world in my experience. But it shows that a kind of 'waking up within the dream' is possible.

Lucid dreams affect the outside world, by affecting you the dreamer.

I agree with syn777, I believe they are there to strengthen the mind, master the self......

I have experienced waking from lucid dreams and felt transformed forever.:)

[synergy777]

in one lucid dream, i even announced, enough of this intellectual posturing, stop showing off, lol its a nice feature of the mind, but its needs to have a relevance to the "real" world. i belive in spiritual travel, like yogis, remote viewing, psychic stuff, as the military use it.

Stargate Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Stargate Project was one of a number of code names used to cover "remote viewing programs". Others included Sun Streak, Grill Flame, Center Lane by DIA and INSCOM, and SCANATE by CIA, from the 1970s, through to 1995. It was an offshoot of research done at Stanford Research Institute (SRI).

The research program was launched partly because some intelligence officers believed a 'psi-gap' had emerged between America and the Soviet Union, citing, for example, the abilities of Nina Kulagina.

Remote viewing attempts to sense places or events are normally performed in the present, but sessions have also been undertaken to sense the past and future.

The Stargate Project
The Stargate Project created a set of protocols designed to make clairvoyance a more scientific process, and minimize as much as possible session noise and inaccuracy. The term "remote viewing" emerged as a generalised short hand to describe this more structured approach to clairvoyance.

The project was eventually terminated, according to the official report at the time, because there was insufficient evidence of the utility of the intelligence data produced. In 1989 new civilian administrators, unfamiliar with CRV protocols, had brought in "witches," tarot card readers, and channelers, thereby, it is argued, deteriorating the quality of the project's data.

In 1995 the project was transferred to the CIA and a retrospective evaluation of the results was done. The CIA contracted the American Institutes for Research for this evaluation. An analysis conducted by Professor Jessica Utts showed a statistically significant effect, with gifted subjects scoring 5%-15% above chance, though subject reports included a large amount of irrelevant information, and when reports did seem on target they were vague and general in nature. [1] Professor Ray Hyman concluded a null result. Based upon both of their collected findings, the CIA followed the recommendation to terminate the 20 million dollar project.Time magazine stated in 1995 three full-time psychics were still working on a $500,000-a-year budget out of Fort Meade, Maryland, which would soon close up shop

"third eye vision" = eye of shiva = chakras

Project Stargate: The History of Remote Viewing
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/stargate1.htm

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/stargate.htm

http://www.parapsych.org/psiexplorer/stargate.htm

http://www.remoteviewed.com/remote_viewing_history_military.htm

[lydia78]

in one lucid dream, i even announced, enough of this intellectual posturing, stop showing off, lol its a nice feature of the mind, but its needs to have a relevance to the "real" world. i belive in spiritual travel, like yogis, remote viewing, psychic stuff, as the military use it.


You should checck out the Mildenhall/Lakenheath base in suffolk, they like their remote viewers.

As a teenager I used to occasionally go to the Arthur Finley college in Stanstead, a couple of the psychic's there used to do it (remote viewing at the base), even recommended I had a go.

Remote Viewing, Telekinesis....like you said Syn777, it's all latent ability making a comeback!:)

[synergy777]

i've been watching heroes, lol

[lydia78]

i've been watching heroes, lol

LOL!! Any Good?

[synergy777]

Third eye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The third eye (also known as the inner eye) is a metaphysical and esoteric concept referring in part to the ajna (brow) chakra in certain Eastern and Western spiritual traditions. It is also spoken of as the gate that leads within to inner realms and spaces of higher consciousness. In New Age spirituality, the third eye may alternately symbolize a state of enlightenment or the evocation of mental images having deeply-personal spiritual or psychological significance. The third eye is often associated with visions, clairvoyance, precognition, and out-of-body experiences, and people who have allegedly developed the capacity to use their third eyes are sometimes known as seers.

Ajna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ajna chakra is positioned at the eyebrow region and it has two petals, said to represent the psychic channels Ida and Pingala, which meet here with the central Shushumna channel, before rising to the crown chakra, Sahasrara. On the left hand petal is the letter 'ham', and on the right the letter 'ksham', the bija mantras for Shiva and Shakti respectively.

Ajna is considered the chakra of the mind. When something is seen in the mind's eye, or in a dream, it is being 'seen' by Ajna

[juliekc]

I actually believe in OBE's.

Ok, it was a good few years ago now, when one day I had joined a chatroom, they had started on the network and having some interests of my own, I decided to pop in and take a look.

There was a conversation taking place with 2 main members of the room, a few others adding there two pence worth every now and then. I sat and read what was being said. I came to the conclusion that they were 'off their trolleys'

A few months went by and I was still in the channel, I had a few interesting conversations and was curious about all.

I had noticed that I had started having more and more experiences of my own. I was starting to feel as if there were things around me. I was hearing things. I had in earlier years had a few experiences I can't find answers to. I used to make excuses for many things, but after so many, you start to wonder why things are happening. It's as if you stepped outside and a big cloud just downpoured over you, if that happened 20 times as you stepped out, you would start to think there were too many coincidences. it's the same sort of thing.

However saying all this, I do believe if you are involved as much as I was, starts to either make you become more aware, or creates a higher stage of an overactive imagination. I was hallucinating, was having nightly hypnogogic dreams, Lucid dreaming, I was even told by a friend (native american (very spiritual) woman/judge friend) that I had experienced an OBE.

I had gone to her (Adawehi) and told her about this very vivid dream I'd had the night before. It was all very odd. Started off I was viewing some house, but was in the garden.. (I have no idea what the interier looked like). It was a very long and narrow garden, about 3/4 of the way down it, I could see something hovering. I felt drawn in, it was a little smaller than a football, lilac in colour and glowing. I was fascinated, I thought it was beautiful. Don't ask me what it was, I had no idea. I walked towards it, I was curious and wanted to get closer. As I approached I felt as if the ground had gone soft and become more like quicksand. I was a lil alarmed by it and panicked slightly. I reached for this 'ball' thing.. and went to walk back up the garden to solid ground. As I took the ball. I turned to walk back up and it felt heavy, I was dragging something. I had no idea. I remember thinking, OMG something is attached to it, but I couldn't see anything.

Within seconds a man had appeared, to my amazement he was naked, odd I know. I remember thinking wow he has no clothes on, (but gutted that his bits were all blurred.. LOL jk). Na, I was amazed that he was naked, but even more so that he had no reaction to being naked. I thought, well if he don't care, why should I. I think we spoke a little and he was trying to calm me, this is vague, but I did ask him, "Are you my spirit guide?" He looked at me and said, "No, but he is" OMG another guy appeared (this one clothed). I was trying to understand why they would want to talk with me, I didn't know what they wanted.

They asked me if I wanted to see my daughter in a past life. I can't say that pastlives was something I'd ever really given much thought to before this, or even now. My daughter is mentally handicapped, so I was curious to what they were going to show me. I wondered if this was some sort of preparation before something was to happen to her. (Gemma has many health issues, so life expectacy is not long term). Of course I had agreed.

I was then looking at some woman on a stage. It was like half a house scene with a 40-50 yr old dark haired woman, quite tall and slim (complete opposite to Gemma) walking down the stairs and singing. I sat and watched her overwhelmed really, thinking about how she acted and her love of music, relating both to Gemma. It was exactly how I would have pictured her in her mannerisms, hobbies and interests, the way she is and her personality.

After this while chatting with Adawehi, she told me that I'd had an OBE. I was amazed, how could this be the case? I didn't have no floating above myself, I wasn't watching myself. i don't even know how I had got to this garden. It was all a dream to me, although very real.

She Explained, the sponge feeling of the ground was my body beginning to float, the pulling or dragging of that body was my own body pulling and breaking away into an OBE.

I still to this day have no idea what I had, but it was very real to me. Very strange experience.

Julie

[synergy777]

cheers for sharing. you are lucky you have friends like that around to inform, help you. there are higher planes of reality, i firmly believe this to be lower/lesser reality, a lower bandwidth of experience/reality, science confirms this.

as for spirit guides, you are blessed by that. i wish i had that, but then again me being me, i probably wouldn't listen to them anyway, stubborn to the core. as for daughter she is a blessing, she i believe before this life, chose you, for your good qualities, all the best sis.

[synergy777]

http://www.onewholelove.com/third_level_pages/med_ajna.htm

Ajna Chakra and Meditation

The Ajna Center

The sixth chakra is called Ajna which in Sanskrit means it is located between the eyebrows and is commonly known as the third eye. Within the symbolic representation of the Ajna center is the syllable Ohm which represents the beginning and end of all things. It is from this center that a person harmonizes the forces within him/herself and achieves a balance between Yin and Yang.

The third eye radiates a deep blue which in the developed personality borders on violet. It functions as the central point where different flows of Prana meet and are distributed. (Sushunma branches through it, and the Ida and Pingala go right through it after they branch off to the nostrils.) The chakra has control over seeing, not only in the physical sense but in the mystical sense of seeing into the higher planes; intuitive seeing, clairvoyance and the other paranormal forms of knowing. And when active, the seat of Divine Intelligence. The Ajna center controls all higher mental activities. This includes intuitive thought, rational thought and memory. Intuitive thought includes all forms of paranormal activity.

When the sixth chakra is active, consciousness and unconsciousness merge and whatever gulf there was before hand is permanently abolished. Integration becomes complete and a person sees himself as the union of selves, the I AM. A person in this condition remembers and experiences himself at every stage of his life from the cradle upwards, and he remembers all those individual energy fields that combined to create his particular energy field, including those two most important fields "mother and father. Because his remembrance is complete, he can go beyond the point of terror, beyond the moment he first experienced separation from the universal field to a time when there was only union and unconditional love.

Ajna Meditation

In the Ajna meditation, you will get in touch with the quality which harmonizes everything within you. To begin the Ajna meditation, find a comfortable position with your back straight. Close your eyes and begin breathing deeply through your nose without separation between inhalation and exhalation, and feel yourself relaxing. Take your time and become conscious of your body by following your breath for about five minutes. After five minutes, bring your attention to your sixth chakra, between your eyebrows. Then bring your breath to your sixth chakra. On each inhalation feel the energy centered in your third eye grow stronger. You will feel it as a heat and intensity which will grow stronger on each inhalation.

As it grows more powerful, visualize the energy there as a ball of indigo light. Experience and visualize it growing stronger and brighter for about two or three minutes. Then feel your consciousness move upward until it reaches a point between your eyebrows and feel your consciousness centered in the ball of energy. Then become the ball of energy and feel yourself radiating from that center through your body and into the outer environment.

Feel yourself as the union of selves. Feel your mind radiate in all directions simultaneously and feel yourself fill the room with your consciousness. Pay attention to how you feel physically, emotionally and mentally. The more you are centered in the third eye, the more complete will be the union between consciousness and unconsciousness. In this condition you will feel what seems like an electrical current running through your physical body, and your entire head will begin to glow with the center of this fire being the third eye.

Take at least ten minutes for this part of the meditation. After ten minutes, or when you are satisfied, take a deep breath through your nose and as you exhale mentally repeat, “Every time I come to this level of consciousness, I learn to use more of my mind in more creative ways.” Then let your breathing return to normal, release the ball of energy by your sixth chakra and the imagery associated with it and mentally return to the room and relax. After a few moments begin to count mentally from one to five and when you reach the number five, open your eyes. You will feel wide awake, perfectly relaxed and better than you did before.

[hagbard_celine]

This is not a nail in the coffin for spooky things at all! What they describe is not an OBE in the true sense of the word; it's more a mental illusion, a bit standing on a river bank like staring down at the moving water and feeling as if you're moving in the opposite direction. This is not how people describe OBE's. They also happen spontaneously with no outside interference and "psychonauts" often describe voyages to other worlds etc. The Skeptics are totally jumping the gun here.

What's more, this kind of experiment is hardly breaking news. Experiments to recreate mystical experiences have been done since rthe 19th Century, using involving electrical stimulation of the brain. It's true that electrical currents applied to certain parts of the brain, as well as psychoactive drugs as we all know, can induce mystical experiences to some degree, this doesn't prove that the experience is not real.

[mada88]

http://parallelnormal.com/2007/08/23/breaking-news-researcher-induces-out-of-body-experiences/

[john white]

Who says Science can't make desperate irrational claims?

[graflok]

Another nail in the coffin of all things spooky:


emtec? Is that you?