Alex Collier *New Talk* Sep 09

[sexi_co]

Awake & Aware in LA - Alex Collier

It will not let me post the video here so you'll have to click this link. (http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/2197767)

:)

[simmo]

I love Colliers message but a lot of the stuff he said was going to happen in the mid 90's with halebopp and whatnot never happened and he lost credibility imo. Great story but I think it's disinfo.

[aura]

I love Colliers message but a lot of the stuff he said was going to happen in the mid 90's with halebopp and whatnot never happened and he lost credibility imo. Great story but I think it's disinfo.

I disagree.
You can't really make judgement with Alex Collier solely on 'probabilities/predictions' which have been suggested over the past 10 years. In my opinion this is foolish based.

[siriusc]

I like his message that we are only going to effect a change is we abandon a money based society! I've believed this all my life and until we bring about this change we will continue being slaves.

What's disinfo about that?

[sexi_co]

I like his message that we are only going to effect a change is we abandon a money based society! I've believed this all my life and until we bring about this change we will continue being slaves.

What's disinfo about that?

I agree. Even if he IS lieing about the 'contact', his message is still a very good one.

[simmo]

I like his message that we are only going to effect a change is we abandon a money based society! I've believed this all my life and until we bring about this change we will continue being slaves.

What's disinfo about that?

Nothing about that specifically is disinfo.

Like I said, I like his message but I am going off other things he has said which lead me to my conclusion. These weren't "probabilities/predictions", these were things he warned us of and said were DEFINITELY going to happen.

To be exact he told us that the Halebopp Comet was not a comet at all but was in fact a "Reptilian War Ship" carrying thousands or more Reptilians in "Cryo Stasis" bound for earth to wage war etc.

As I said before, in my opinion, I believe anyone who goes public with information that deliberately instills fear in people (and this was no small thing, this was an imminent 'War of the Worlds' which no doubt terrified almost anyone who read and respected Colliers work) and then this event does not occur, that is disinfo to me. Either his information is unreliable, deliberately false or just the result of an unstable mind.

The only thing that is 'foolish based' is the fact that some people still take this guy for every word he says! Not wise given this man's history. Love the message, but you just can't take him too seriously. Given the facts, anyone who disagrees with this is seriously deluding themselves.

[silvabak]

hoax or not he has a great attitude and message

[rodin]

I like his message that we are only going to effect a change is we abandon a money based society! I've believed this all my life and until we bring about this change we will continue being slaves.

What's disinfo about that?

lol the chip is coming no more money what a great idea

Who tells you the problem is private Jewish usuary money created out of nothing with interest payable?

We need CLEAN money

period

[branjo]

Who knows how many predictions may have come true without the knowledge of them.

[trev1]

I think this guy has a great message - BUT where is the EVIDENCE?
Truth is he has NONE......

PLus when he describes the Andromedans spaceship - a cylindrical object
that is 80 miles long with parks and everything inside -
please please please read the book RAMA by Aurthur C Clarke - this is
a direct lift from this. It cant be a coincedence that what Alex describes
is more or less identical to what Clarke described in his Science Fiction book!

[spock]

I love Colliers message but a lot of the stuff he said was going to happen in the mid 90's with halebopp and whatnot never happened and he lost credibility imo. Great story but I think it's disinfo.

Fema camps? new world order?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xUDZPA82Sk

[simmo]

Gimme a break fema camps? Who cares? What a load of crap. New world order? Yeah, sure. I bet it's coming annnnnny day now :rolleyes:

[kasalt]

hoax or not he has a great attitude and message

Collier's "message" is a nice-smelling turd, neatly dressed (imho). A hoax indeed.

[spock]

Gimme a break fema camps? Who cares? What a load of crap. New world order? Yeah, sure. I bet it's coming annnnnny day now :rolleyes:


day after tommorrow.

[silvabak]

Collier's "message" is a nice-smelling turd, neatly dressed (imho). A hoax indeed.

not really m8 i do belive alot he says didnt happen to him, but its come from some1 who has had these experiences.....either way its intresting nothing more nothing less.

pz

[branjo]

I love listening to the little debunkers, seems like the trend here now, maybe we should change the name of the forum to ATS....lol.

[angelthecat]

Project camelot has lost a great deal of credibility with me because the presentation included George Green and claimed to be in touch with the pleidians through Billy Meier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-A489nGS4w&feature=related). If this was the case then if Billy Meier proves to be a hoax then George Green has to be lieing as well. If this is the case then project camelot has either been set a trap or they are part of a mis-information program

[kingmob]

Project camelot has lost a great deal of credibility with me because the presentation included George Green and claimed to be in touch with the pleidians through Billy Meier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-A489nGS4w&feature=related). If this was the case then if Billy Meier proves to be a hoax then George Green has to be lieing as well. If this is the case then project camelot has either been set a trap or they are part of a mis-information program

Well eventually, all sources become somewhat tainted. PTB will try to discredit and taint all sources of information, to confuse you and make you doubt. I've seen it numerous times.

[branjo]

Well eventually, all sources become somewhat tainted. PTB will try to discredit and taint all sources of information, to confuse you and make you doubt. I've seen it numerous times.

Bingo!

[spock]

I love listening to the little debunkers, seems like the trend here now, maybe we should change the name of the forum to ATS....lol.

quite. why even bother eh?

I rate alex collier. his message is one of love, self responsibility free from a higher authority. i can feel truth in it.
so some people have trouble with times and dates. the future is full of posiblities,

take what you need, bin the rest and move on. don't carry it if you don't want it.

[kasalt]

I love listening to the little debunkers, seems like the trend here now, maybe we should change the name of the forum to ATS....lol.

Take a look at this quote from Michael Horn, debunking Alex Collier:

Speaking of delusional, in case you’re not familiar with it, the so-called “UFO community” has actually done as much, if not more, damage to the effort to inform the world of a credible, authentic case like Meier’s. I’ve had more battles with supposed and self-professed UFO supporters, experts, researchers, etc. on online forums than with the skeptics, significant as those may be. (See Vivienne’s article linked above for more information.)

I think one of the reasons for this is that the UFO field attracts a lot of people who are, frankly, not only somewhat fringe but also prone to fantasies, delusions of grandeur and looking to be important while absent real qualifications and credibility that would warrant them being taken seriously in any other field. Since it’s very hard to prove the authenticity of claims regarding UFOs, extraterrestrials, abductions, etc. there are a good number of people who simply make lots of completely unsubstantiated claims never expecting to have their feet held to the fire to prove them.

Case in point, recently I was invited on a forum hosted by Michael Salla to defend comments that I had made regarding one “Alex Collier”. For those of you who’ve read my article “Beyond Great UFO Photos” (http://www.theyfly.com/UFO_Mag_Article.htm), you know that I attributed my obtaining the Contact Reports (or Contact Notes as they were also referred to) to a man named Ralph Amagran, who I met in Sedona, Arizona, in 1986. Some years later, Ralph had changed his name to Alex Collier and was referring to himself as a “life long Andromedan contactee”, something that he never claimed to be during the time I knew, and hung out with, him in Los Angeles.

But it seems that both Salla and Paola Harris, who fancy themselves to be serious UFO researchers, are absolutely convinced of Collier’s genuineness, so much so that they referred me to documentation of Collier’s own words upon which they base their support for him. Suffice it to say that I got into a rather heated exchange with Salla (who also writes nice looking articles with footnotes to Collier’s stuff, among others) that resulted in my being banned from his forum. Since I then ended up being the one accused of lying about the whole matter, I sent out a letter to various UFO-related parties to set the matter straight. Thinking that, in these difficult times, you may derive some entertainment value from the matter, I am including it for your consideration and/or amusement. If you do have any doubts as to the difference between a genuine contactee and an absolutely delusional charlatan, reading Collier’s own words should be sufficient to clarify the difference...

It goes on. I won't bother copying and pasting all of it, but if you're interested in reading the rest, here's the link:

http://www.theyfly.com/news2005/sept05/sept05.htm

[branjo]

Hold on now let me get this right, You are using a man's opinion who believes whole heartedly in something you think is complete bullshit, ie the Meier info, yet you find it ok to take his word about Alex Collier, is that right?

[kasalt]

Hold on now let me get this right, You are using a man's opinion who believes whole heartedly in something you think is complete bullshit, ie the Meier info, yet you find it ok to take his word about Alex Collier, is that right?

Nope, just pointing out the irony.

Horn and Meier declare Collier to be a fraud. I say they're all frauds. Who do you believe?

[hank_scorpio]

think about this: meier is about profit. collier hasnt made a penny.

[funkyjesus]

I love listening to the little debunkers, seems like the trend here now, maybe we should change the name of the forum to ATS....lol.

Just because some of us here aren't silly enough to fall for every YouTube/Wikipedia linked message and accusation posted on this forum doesn't make us debunkers. Anyway, by the definition, the name debunking means the original claim is "bunk".

If it was a solid and truthful enough accusation, it wouldn't be debunked. Unless you want to act like Loose Change and make such a flimsy argument that you need to edit your own work 9 times and still not have the main point you're trying to make.

Critical thinking isn't an Illuminati masterplan you know - blindly believing any anti-government story purely because it is an anti-government story probably is though.

[branjo]

Well as Collier says the Pleiadians messed up and as Meier, Green and Horn are all about the Pleiadians, they could all be right, just coming from different directions. They could all be wrong, hell everyone could be wrong, there may actually not be any ET's at all, no reltilians, no Dimensions, no God, no Devil, no Divine plan or no such thing as consciousness. How do we know anything, when we take opinions from other people over the things we feel we know. No one even see's colours the same yet people will still argue if its greeny blue or bluey green.

I mean if Horn says Collier is full of it just because he didn't tell him about his contacts, its not really proof either. I mean there are some people in my life I wouldn't even attempt to tell about the things I believe, because it would just make them look at me like I have gone loopy, but it makes sense to me.

There is no purpose to debunking, its an act bathed in negativity. bBeing critical of information is not debunking. Debunking is a calculated act of discrediting an individual to control the reach of the information at hand. Being critical is having an opinion and understanding, that its only an opinion. There are no rules for Extraterrestrial contact, no book that denotes the correct way and the incorrect way, until their is a definitive way of establishing "proof", then opinions are all we have. Would you start a fight or a war over an opinion that you cannot prove either way?

People will see what they want and need in anything, no one forces me to believe in anything, that's merely my choice. But there are a multitude of people dedicated to destroying other people's beliefs because of some sort of self crusade. What can a person hope to achieve by obliterating someone else's beliefs, other than a greater sense of ego for themselves.

I mean I believe that politics has ruined the planets view of itself, but yet I see no reason to build myself a placard and walk the streets shouting about it. Time will tell and sooner or later people will know what is the truth and what is not, but is one truth going to be enough truth for everyone?

Neither Meier, Horn or Collier are saying anything with any negative intent, some people are suspicious of everything, but those people are not thinking from a centralized perspective. They have been burned somewhere down the line and be damned if they are going to be duped again, so they pollute everything they touch because to them, its better to be a cynic and a pessimist than to be genuinely and simply wrong, the fear to be wrong is a form of control. Its why belief systems like religion last as long as they do. No one wants to go against the grain for the fear that they will be damned or ridiculed. When the truth is, it simply just doesn't matter either way. If someone is only worried about their image in another persons eyes then that's like seeing the world through that other persons eyes, not much of a life.

Everyone makes mistakes, but that's why the individual learns from them, they don't carry the guilt of the first mistake into the next situation. So I take certain people as I find them, I look at them, listen to them, read what they have to say and by what vibes I get from that, I judge them the way I would like to be judged. And if I am wrong, so what, what exactly have I lost? No matter what my beliefs I am always prepared to be wrong, but I won't take that as a defeat and let it consume me either.

There is only one conclusion to all these debates that a sensible person must come to, and that is basically "I just don't know for 100% certainty." No one can say they are 100% right or 100% wrong, there are no absolutes in life. You make a personal choice and you live with it.

Yet people feel the need to try and intellectually tower over people and point at them and laugh saying, "How could you fall for that, ha ha ha". Well I would rather be wrong and still see a mystical view of the Universe that live in a world of my own where I am alone and always right. I will never be in a position to tell you that you are wrong or right, and vice versa. No matter what you debunk there is always something you personally will believe in that I could tear to shreds if I set my mind to it.

Its only ever been about belief, nothing else really matters.

[branjo]

Just because some of us here aren't silly enough to fall for every YouTube/Wikipedia linked message and accusation posted on this forum doesn't make us debunkers. Anyway, by the definition, the name debunking means the original claim is "bunk".

If it was a solid and truthful enough accusation, it wouldn't be debunked. Unless you want to act like Loose Change and make such a flimsy argument that you need to edit your own work 9 times and still not have the main point you're trying to make.

Critical thinking isn't an Illuminati masterplan you know - blindly believing any anti-government story purely because it is an anti-government story probably is though.

Could you define "some of us"

[kasalt]

I mean if Horn says Collier is full of it just because he didn't tell him about his contacts, its not really proof either.

I don't think you've actually read the information I linked to earlier in this thread. Michael Horn provided a list of past claims made by Alex Collier which Horn cited as proof that Collier is a fraud, including the following:
In Alex Collier’s own words:

Between June and October of 2003, there is a strong probability we will wake up one morning and the moon will no longer be in orbit.

They will start with a magnetic pole shift, which could happen anytime between now and the year 2001.

We are told that it is 4,200 miles in diameter. Morenae says that is an absolute lie, that it is 11,421 miles in diameter, and that our people know about this.

When the extraterrestrials get here, sometime next year (1997) or the year after, when they physically land and they start showing themselves.

They have told all of the negative extraterrestrials in and on our planet, and the moon, to be out of here no later than August 12, 2003. I have also been told that there is a very high probability that we could wake up some morning in that area of time and our moon will not be there.

During the next seven years, between 1996 and 2004, the major cities in the United States will be under quarantine because of the spread of tuberculosis. The average life expectancy of men in the inner cities will be 43 years of age, and for women 55. You are going to see the end of welfare, free medical and county services, because everybody will be bankrupt.


Between 1996 and the end of 1997, there is a very strong possibility that one third of Japan is going to sink below the ocean surface in a very violent earthquake.As Michael Horn points out, none of these predictions provided by Collier have come true, i.e., they are fraudulent claims.

Neither Meier, Horn or Collier are saying anything with any negative intent

In the quote I posted from TheyFly.com earlier, Horn clearly states that Alex Collier is an "absolutely delusional charlatan" (Horn's words). I'd say that those words carry at least some "negative intent", wouldn't you?

Its only ever been about belief, nothing else really matters.

What about facts, don't they matter?

Beliefs are subservient to facts. I strongly object to the notion that I must "believe" anything. At the very least, you must show me some convincing evidence that what you say is true before I will even begin to consider that what you say may be true. Even better than evidence is proof. I'd much rather KNOW that something is true, rather than just believe that it is true. I have no interest in being hoodwinked.

[funkyjesus]

Could you define "some of us"

As in "more than one, not all of whom are myself".

[branjo]

Prove you exist. Prove your mind exists. Prove the world around you exists. You nor I nor anyone else is in possession of "The" truth, all you or I or anyone else have are opinions backed up by what we believe in at any given time.

I shouldn't have included Horn in my statement alongside Meier and Collier because he is saying nothing of his own, he is a believer in Meier (oh wow there is that weird coloured letters again, omg that must be an indication of proof), they are about an individual, and again just Horns opinion, nothing more. Why do you believe him now but you think he's been 100% fooled when it comes to Meier's information, Which I know you believe to be a hoax, as you have stated it before. So why are you standing beside someones opinion when you have basically said he is someone that has already been hoodwinked. But now his words are fact to you? By your own words "I think they are all frauds"....lol. Horn needs to protect his belief system and Collier is unintentionally attacking that system, Meier made predictions that did not come true amongst many that did. Hell even look at Edgar Cayce, some of his are ludicrous predictions that didn't come true by the time line set, but many have done. Like I said before I am not about proving anyone wrong, I am on the fence, I see many aspects of all the above mentioned to be worthy of further investigation and belief, but am I going to ram my opinions down someone else's throat in order to change their minds to what I believe? nnnnNope!

Nostradamus too made many a prediction, some came true some did not, does that mean he was a liar and having a laugh and just throwing out random guesses? I do not think so, but that's just my opinion.

In case you need to have it explained to you, a prediction is something that may happen if certain aspects do not change, Prophesy is something that will happen, hence there is and always will be false prophets. Because the validity of the prophesy is proven to be wrong when it does not happen. When someone declares themselves a prophet then it is a wait and see kind of thing, a prophesy is an inescapable event which will happen. A prediction can be avoided, if the parameters change.

If I put a pot of boiling oil on the stove and leave it, and someone predicts that it will go on fire, but I remove it from the stove before this happens, was that prediction a lie? No, I changed the parameters, that's why it didn't happen.

But if the same person prophesies that in 20 seconds that pot will burst into flames and it does not, was that prophesy true? Apparently not, because I waited to see if it was, and it wasn't.

You say facts lol, ok what about facts then, at one point in history it was a fact that the earth was flat, at one point in history it was believed that the atom was the smallest particle in existence, At one point in history David Icke was a nutter and everything he said was absurd and worthy of no interest, yet today you attach a quote of his at the end of your each and every post, because you believe what he says is the truth. At one point in history the vast majority if not all the people in the US and UK thought that 9/11 was a terrorist act planned and executed by Muslim extremists, but yet now we believe that is not the case. At some point everyone believes in something that they later leave and migrate to another set of beliefs given the information at hand.

Your opinion of course is as valid as anyone else's, but why do you persist in discrediting people, what value is in that for you?, are you the bringer of truth to the world? have you yourself been "chosen"?..lol. Do you want others to believe as you do?

Why Mr Anderson, Why Why Why! do you persist? :D

[branjo]

As in "more than one, not all of whom are myself".

So then why not state in your post "I" rather than "some of us" unless you of course have some ability to tell what other people are thinking.

[kasalt]

I shouldn't have included Horn in my statement alongside Meier and Collier because he is saying nothing of his own, he is a believer in Meier (oh wow there is that weird coloured letters again, omg that must be an indication of proof), they are about an individual, and again just Horns opinion, nothing more.

Actually, it is not just Horn's opinion, it is Meier's opinion as well because Horn was speaking from his position as Meier's official spokesman.

You believe that Meier and Collier are both genuine contactees, and yet Meier has declared Collier to be a fraud. They can't both be right. Somebody is lying, and it isn't me.

Your opinion of course is as valid as anyone else's, but why do you persist in discrediting people, what value is in that for you?

Why do you persist in believing in demonstrable falsehood, what value is in that for you?

[kasalt]

I would add to my above comments: Why do you think that the team of Horn/Meier persists in discrediting Alex Collier, what's in it for them?

I did a little digging, and here are more links to articles written by Horn which are dedicated to debunking Collier:

Let's Talk About "Alex Collier"
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=68276368&blogId=497592416

Alex Collier's Stupid Stuff: The Delusional Writing of the Imaginary “Alex Collier”
http://theyfly.com/articles/Alex%20Collier.html

The "Alex Collier" Hoax is Now...Over
http://theyfly.com/newsflash5/THE%20_ALEX_COLLIER_%20HOAX.htm

Michael Horn's Internet Hoax!
http://theyfly.com/MICHAEL_HORN.html

[spock]

Actually, it is not just Horn's opinion, it is Meier's opinion as well because Horn was speaking from his position as Meier's official spokesman.

You believe that Meier and Collier are both genuine contactees, and yet Meier has declared Collier to be a fraud. They can't both be right. Somebody is lying, and it isn't me.



Why do you persist in believing in demonstrable falsehood, what value is in that for you?

i recon it's meier......no wait.................collier.
can't they both be right?...........or both be wrong?.......to some degree.
why does it have to be set up like a competition?
the A's versus the P's :rolleyes:

it's not about destroying personalities. it's the message.
what message do they bring? forget the dates and stuff.
what are they both saying that we can benefit from?

meier could have been taken on a joy ride by the secret "black" space program?

[kasalt]

I did a little digging, and here are more links to articles written by Horn which are dedicated to debunking Collier:

Let's Talk About "Alex Collier"
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=68276368&blogId=497592416


I have to correct myself on the above quote. The brief article entitled "Let's Talk About "Alex Collier" was not written by Michael Horn, but by someone else with no links to Horn whatsoever when he wrote it. Horn simply refers to it among other sources in his debunking of Collier. He didn't write it.

[devanshoom]

Nope, just pointing out the irony.

Horn and Meier declare Collier to be a fraud. I say they're all frauds. Who do you believe?

i believe everyone....and no one, my dear watson

if collier is lying then fuck me he is pretty good at it....and took a ten year break then came and started telling the same lies. He basically fucked his life up the first time round...ridicule, stress, etc. Who would do this shit??? Collier seems to have his head screwed on well enough.

You just have to look at how genuine he is when talking his stuff..if he is lying the he must be under some sort of hypnotic spell or mind controlled.

[devanshoom]

that piece of shit video wont play...youtube may be lame but at least their stuff plays ok

[devanshoom]

plays way better here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZQWUkTI4RY

[kingmob]

i believe everyone....and no one, my dear watson

if collier is lying then fuck me he is pretty good at it....and took a ten year break then came and started telling the same lies. He basically fucked his life up the first time round...ridicule, stress, etc. Who would do this shit??? Collier seems to have his head screwed on well enough.

You just have to look at how genuine he is when talking his stuff..if he is lying the he must be under some sort of hypnotic spell or mind controlled.

The amount of ridicule I get for posting some truth on a few forums is enough sometime for me to even wanting to speak about it again.

Guys like David Icke and Alex Collier probably went through some personal hell over time.

[aitch]

Collier is an utter moron whose followers are also utter morons! :p

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74103

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54953

[funkyjesus]

So then why not state in your post "I" rather than "some of us" unless you of course have some ability to tell what other people are thinking.

I do. I am funkyjesus, I died for your sins in some great threads and bling. Don't doubt me.

[soul_traveller]

One way that people are so easily manipulated is through the 'lie sandwich'.
If some of people's research are shown incorrect then all of their information is disinfo. Its the opposite of the 'truth sandwich'.

[kasalt]

Why Mr Anderson, Why Why Why! do you persist?

You do realize that with that quote you are casting yourself as an agent of the Matrix and me as Neo, don't you? ;)

[branjo]

You do realize that with that quote you are casting yourself as an agent of the Matrix and me as Neo, don't you? ;)

Yeah well, Appearances can be deceiving. :D

And Neo was a program too.

[simmo]

Branjo you wonder why I attempted to debunk and destroy colliers fantasy world for some people etc.

It's only because I hate to see people being lied to or denied the truth, I'm sorry if it came off as negative to you or anybody else, disinfo just pisses me off, a lot. The guy is on the shadow government's payroll for christ's sake. I'm not standing on a high tower declaring anything (what a funny mental image though lol). I guess I thought it was common knowledge around here that Collier was a waste of space and it saddens me that so many still believe the guy. And I mean that in a genuine human being way, not a condescending internet smartass way.

All you Collier guys feel free to have a poke at me if you like, I'm in the Dr Steven Greer camp. Rockefeller Illuminati Nazi dis-info agent crackpot/whatever... I've heard it all, and nothing so far has changed my beliefs.

I am sorry for trying to change your beliefs, I had no right.

[branjo]

Christ simmo don't feel bad about it, I have read a multitude of Collier debunking and although it has merits, I still believe something is there, now I am not about to lay my life down for Collier beliefs and I can never be sure of any contactee, as its not a rock solid subject. But I cannot for the life of me trust what Horn has to say about him, I came across an email correspondence between horn and someone that had said Meier was full of it, and Horn sent an email that was absolutely vicious, the guy put it on his site and after about 6 or 7 emails the guy blocked him. Now Horn believes Meier 6 incarnations ago was Emanuele, and that hasn't really ever sat right with me as that is a pretty popular person to have been in a past life and more than a couple of people have claimed it. But Horn believes it fully, yet acts like a crazy man when defending Meier. I don't think being in the presence of "Emanuele" would make you that cruel to a non believer. But I do believe in re incarnation and at the end of the day someone has to be someone in a past life, still again I am not about to stake my life on it. I don't like calling people liars and I wouldn't feel good about myself if I did, I tend just to distance myself from it and proceed elsewhere when stuff doesn't sit right.

I do not know Colliers life story and if he is a fraud about the ET's stuff then everybody has told a few whoppers in their time, but what he gives in the way of advice, to me is rock solid and I got a heck of a lot from that alone. I guess I didn't delve into his past too much. But the stuff about him saying the Moon was 11,000+ miles in diameter I can't see anyone making that mistake, I mean that's nearly half the diameter of Earth. I did read that he said the Moon was brought here 11,000+ years ago though. Again not something I am going to allow myself to be burned at the stake for either. But he is not the only one who has said it, but he has been saying it for quite some time now.

I have my own theories about the moon, many of them I have discussed in the Moon threads and I find it a fascinating subject also. But no matter what I believe I cannot prove one single shred of it either.

Horn also makes good points about Meier too, a lot of people say the videos can be faked but as of yet no one has been able to reconstruct them with the same effects, but people do hold Meier aloft, and to me that's not cool either. But seeing him express himself in person (video) something about him didn't scream liar to me.

I also resonate with Greer quite a lot too, but look at the criticisms about him out there as you have stated, there is at least two sides to every story going and its hard to encompass both of them. But I take a lot of what he says as quite good common sense. I see a lot of good in Greer while people see a lot of lies and dis info. The Project Camelot interview tried to make an absolute prick out of the guy but I felt he held himself together quite well where as I would have been tempted to choke a bitch :p

You see I am not about to jump on anyone's bandwagon, sell my house and follow them around the world like a lap dog. I listen to what they have to say "in a video first" if available before I choose to read or study in greater detail. Collier to me in a lot of vids does not seem to come across as a liar, and I know that some people are but I just didn't get that from him. Is he a real contactee? its not a cut and dry answer in my honest opinion. Is it wise to always judge someone on their past mistakes? Everyone is human and as a lot of contactee experiences happen "in the head" we can construct quite a lot from memory that didn't happen. but as they say "excuses are like assholes, everybody's got one"..lol.

Is the messenger more important than the message? Is he saying anything that can hurt or hinder ones personal pursuit of the inner or higher self?, No I really don't think he does.

I have said in many a post on this forum that I kind of find myself to be a kind of truth hitchhiker as a side hobby from what few things I hold true about me, I take a ride for so long with people and then the road forks and I have to get out as they are going where I don't feel I need to be going. I have had a few "weird" experiences myself growing up as I am sure most everyone has had, but no blinding white light contacts from aliens to speak of either. If I had I would most probably just keep them to myself anyway.

We all have our own views about how the Universe works and all our views could be torn to shreds if someone set their minds to it. I have to say I am always dubious about people changing their names and it wasn't imo good for Colliers credibility that he had done it, just like Jordan Maxwell also. And as i can resonate with a lot of what Maxwell says, I still have to hold him at arms length, and the same for Alex Jones, and David Icke too.

I guess what I am trying to say is out of a barrel of lies it is still possible to put together some truth. I believe very strongly in "conscious intent" and sometimes I have just walked away from things or people that just give me that weird negative vibe and it has served me well so far. It makes me feel better when I offer the benefit of the doubt to people, but I can still call a spade a spade if I have to ya know?

Its easy to fall into a side of defending or attacking with regards to what someone is saying and I have fallen into the defensive side with regards to Collier I admit that. Sometimes If I see a glimmer of hope in someone I think that is worth something. No one is all bad and lies are a very hard thing to keep up for 20 - 30 years.

So no dude I don't posses any hard feelings toward people that don't believe or agree with what I may believe or agree with. There is always some middle ground within any debate. Sometimes its a bitch to find but its there somewhere..lol.

EDIT:
Oops my diameter measurement was a bit off there lol sorry that was pole to pole circumference, the earth is 8,000 miles give or take, diameter, which makes the moon diameter that much weirder.

[liltroofer]

Collier comes across as disturbing to me. The masonic hand signs all over the place are upsetting. Is he trying to make them look obvious, to *expose* masonic handsigns?

Seems too much to me. I think he's just a shill.

[erthiz]

Hey guys

Ive only started looking into Collier over the past few days, ive watched his interviews, although he has no evidence of it, i feel there is truth in his voice. If you watch him, his facial expressions, his attitude, he gets very emotional and pissed about it all, hes either telling the truth, which i believe he is, or hes a VERY good actor :)

[truth seeker 09]

Hi

In another discussion thread there's a voting going on whether Collier is a real contactee or not.

Please place your vote only if you have researched Collier's information enough to make the decision because you cannot change your vote.

You can vote here:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54953

[gaias child]

Collier comes across as disturbing to me. The masonic hand signs all over the place are upsetting. Is he trying to make them look obvious, to *expose* masonic handsigns?

Seems too much to me. I think he's just a shill.

I noticed some masonic hand signs too.

[truth seeker 09]

Collier comes across as disturbing to me. The masonic hand signs all over the place are upsetting. Is he trying to make them look obvious, to *expose* masonic handsigns?

Seems too much to me. I think he's just a shill.

Collier using masonic hand signs? You're either kidding or joking. :) Collier moves his hands while talking just like me or anyone else. I would like to know where do you see Collier using masonic hand signs? Just because he moves his hands doesn't mean he's a mason.

[romas]

All you Collier guys feel free to have a poke at me if you like, I'm in the Dr Steven Greer camp. Rockefeller Illuminati Nazi dis-info agent crackpot/whatever... I've heard it all, and nothing so far has changed my beliefs.

I am sorry for trying to change your beliefs, I had no right.





Err how exactly do they differ to the extent as to make some kind of camps?

Greer just doesn't philosophize or critique human consciousness imo.

[simmo]

I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean :(

[romas]

I mean they are both on the same page, basically.