Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!

[positive terror]

Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!

Umm Rashid


What would you call a religion whose beliefs, practices and followers are being bashed and bad-mouthed in practically every sphere of activity, in almost every corner of the globe, yet it attracts ever-increasing numbers of people?

A Paradox? A Miracle ? Or simply, The Truth: Islaam.

The fact that Islaam is the fastest growing religion in the world today, is proof that our Creator has taken it upon Himself to perfect the Truth that He sent all His prophets and messengers with -- from Aadam [AS] to Muhammad [SAW].

Studies conducted in the West show that the sheer number of new Muslims is changing the demographic profile of countries all over the world, and not all of them are born into Muslim families. With some 6 million adherents in the United States, Islam is said to be the nation’s fastest-growing religion. One expert estimates that 25,000 people a year become Muslims in this country; some clerics say they have seen conversion rates quadruple since Sept 11.

Ironically for a religion that is routinely bashed for “subjugating” and “oppressing” its female followers, the number of female reverts to Islaam outnumber the males 4:1!

The fact that more and more people are finding their way to Islaam, notwithstanding the relentless propaganda, deliberate misinformation and outright prejudice against it, never ceases to amaze me.

How do these people navigate in the darkness to find the light of Islaam in spite of all the obstacles in the way?

The answer is that our Creator has granted each one of us a guiding light -- a pure, undefiled innate nature called the fitrah. Unlike Christians who believe in the doctrine of Original Sin and assert that each baby is born tainted with the sin of Adam’s disobedience to God, Muslims believe that every child is born into a state of purity where it recognizes its Creator and is naturally subservient to His laws.

In his book The Fundamentals of Islaamic Monotheism, Abu Ameenah Bilaal Philips writes: Just as a child’s body submits to the physical laws which Allaah has put in nature, its soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allaah is its Lord and Creator. But its parents try to make it follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of its life to resist or oppose its parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allaah does not hold it to account for this religion.

When the child matures in youth and clear proofs of the falsehood of its religion are brought to it, the adult must now follow the religion of knowledge and reason. At this point the devils try their best to encourage him to stay as he is or to go further astray. Evils are made pleasing to him and he must now live in the midst of a struggle between his innate pure nature and his desires in order to find the right road.

If he chooses to follow his innate nature, his fitrah, Allaah will help him overcome his desires even though it may take most of his life to escape, for many people enter Islaam in their old age.

The Qur’aan also points to this phenomenon, where every soul that has been created is asked Who their Lord is, and they testify that it is none other than Allaah before they are born into the world.

When your Lord drew forth from the loins of the children of Aadam their descendants and made them testify concerning themselves. Saying: Am I not your Lord? They said: “Yes, we testify to it.” (This) in case you say on the Day of Judgement, “We were unaware of this.” Or in case you say: It was our ancestors who made partners (with Allaah) and we are only their descendants…[Surah Al-A’raaf 7:172-173]

Explaining this verse, the Prophet [SAW] said: When Allaah created Aadam [AS] , He took a covenant from him …then He extracted from him all of his descendants who would be born until the end of the world, generation after generation and spread them out in front of Him in order to take a covenant from them.

He spoke to them face to face saying: Am I not your Lord? And they all replied: Yes, we testify to it.

Allaah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He was their Creator and the only true God worthy of worship. He said: That was in case you (mankind) should say on the Day of Resurrection, “Surely we were unaware of all this. We had no idea that You were our God.” [Silsilah al ahadeeth as Saheehah, Narrated by ibn Abbaas, collected by Imaam Ahmad]

This is the reason why people who adopt Islaam are said to revert instead of convert, because they are going back to their original nature -- the one they were naturally created with -- which is automatically aligned with the Universe, its Creator and His Laws; as opposed to simply exchanging one set of beliefs for another.

Reverts to Islaam testify that this inner inclination to search for the Truth, to know and follow it is a major factor in their adopting the faith. It is interesting to see some of the reasons cited by reverts for adopting Islaam:

Islaamic Monotheism
“The Christian sect of Athanasians insistently inculcates the tenet that Christianity is based on a belief in three gods (Trinity), that a slightest doubt as to this belief will lead one to immediate perdition; and that a person who wishes to attain salvation in this world and the next should definitely hold a belief in the three gods: God, the Son of God, and the Holy Ghost.

When I became a Muslim, I received a letter, which said: “By becoming a Muslim you have damned yourself to perdition. No one can save you. For you deny the divinity of God.” The poor man [who wrote that letter] thought that I no longer believed in God, not knowing that when Jesus had begun to preach, he stated the unity of God and he never claimed to be His son.

[Lord Headley al-Farooq; British diplomat, engineer]

An answer for every question:
“I would always search for causes and purposes for everything. I would anticipate logical explanations for them. On the other hand, the explanations provided by priests and other Christian men of religion did not satisfy me. Most of the time, instead of giving satisfactory answers to my questions, they would dismiss the matter with evasive prevarications such as, “We cannot understand these things. They are divine secrets” and “They are beyond the grasp of the human mind.”

Upon this I decided to study, on the one hand, Oriental religions, and on the other hand, books written by famous philosophers. The books written by these philosophers always dealt with such subjects as protoplasms, atoms, molecules, and particles, and did not even touch on reflections such as “What becomes of the human soul?” “Where does the soul go after death?” “How should we discipline our souls in this world?”

The Islamic religion, on the other hand, treated the human subject not only within the corporeal areas, but also along the spiritual extensions. Therefore, I chose Islam not because I had lost my way, or only because Christianity had incurred my displeasure, or as a result of sudden decision, but, on the contrary, after very minutely studying it and becoming thoroughly convinced about its greatness, singularity, solemnity and perfection

[Muhammad Alexander Russell Webb; American diplomat, author]

Direct relationship with one’s Creator:
Now I realize I can get in direct contact with God, unlike Christianity or any other religion. As one Hindu lady told me, “You don't understand the Hindus. We believe in one God; we use these objects (idols) to merely concentrate.” What she was saying was that in order to reach God, one has to create associates, that are idols for the purpose. But Islam removes all these barriers.

[Yusuf Islaam, formerly Cat Stevens]

Universality:
Islam is a religion that belongs not only to the Arabs but to the entire humanity. This universal quality presents a sharp contrast with the Judaic religion, whose holy book always refers to the God of Israel.

One more thing that I love in Islam is that this religion recognizes all the prophets, makes no distinction between them and treats the believers of other religions with compassion.

[Mahmud Gunnar Ahmad, Swedish Muslim]

Absolute equality before God, extended brotherhood:
There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.

America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color.

You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought-patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.

During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept on the same rug - while praying to the same God - with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the deeds of the white Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana. We were truly all the same (brothers) - because their belief in one God had removed the white from their minds, the white from their behavior, and the white from their attitude.

[Letter written from Makkah, by Malcolm X]

Purity of prayer:
If I were asked what impressed me most in the religion of Islam, I would probably say the prayers, because prayers in Christianity are used wholly in begging God (through Jesus Christ) to grant worldly favours, whereas in Islam they ar used to give praise and thanks to Almighty God for all His blessings since He knows what is necessary for our welfare and grants us what we need without our asking it.

[Cecilia Mahmuda Cannolly, Australian Muslim]

Women’s rights and status:
No doubt, influenced by the usual condemnation of Islam from Christian pulpits on the subject, I picked on polygamy. At last I thought I had something; obviously Western monogamy was an improvement on this old system. I talked of it to my Muslim friend. He illustrated with the aid of newspaper articles how much true monogamy there was in England, and convinced me that a limited polygamy was the answer to the secret unions that are becoming so distressingly common in the West. My own common sense could see that, particularly after a war, when women of a certain age group far outnumber men, a percentage of them are destined to remain spinsters. Did God give them life for that? I recollect that on the radio programme known as `Dear Sir' an unmarried English girl had called for lawful polygamy, saying she would prefer a shared married life rather than the loneliness to which she seemed to be destined. In Islam no one is forced into a polygamous marriage, but in a perfect religion, the opportunity must be there to meet those cases where it is necessary.

[Mavis B Jolly, UK]

Belief in the Qur’aan as Divine Revelation:
I read as much of the Qur’aan as I could. I was immersed in it. As I read the verses in English, I repeated to myself over and over again, this is what I have always thought and believed. What kind of book was this? Before long I was reading the book and crying, and reading and crying... it was as if something had overtaken me... I forgot what I was looking for in particular, however when I came upon the verses in Surah Baqarah 122-141 regarding Prophet Ibrahim (AS) I had found my answer.

I had been searching for Isma'il (as), son of Prophet Ibrahim and his wife Hajarah, who had been missing from the Hebrew brothers story. In those verses I found the truth of religion... They say: Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (to salvation). Say thou: Nay! (I would rather) the religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah. Say ye: We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) the Prophets from their Lord; We make no difference between one another of them: and we submit to Allah." (2:135-136) As I continued to read and cry, I became intent upon finding someone who could connect me with others who believed in this book!

[K H Abdul Lateef, USA]

The personal example of the Prophet Muhammad [SAW]:
I accepted Islam because I admired the Prophet Muhammad.[SAW]. I had quite a number of Muslim friends in Zanzibar, who gave me Islamic books, which I read in secrecy from my family. I became a Muslim despite the remonstrances of my family and the oppressions of the priests of Parsee religion, which had been my religion until that time. I held fast to my religion and resisted against all sorts of threats. Now I love Allaah and His last Prophet Muhammad [SAW] more than my life

[Faruq B Karai, Zanzibar]

Islaam withstands scrutiny and encourages reasoning:
Instead of asking a follower to believe in its precepts just ”because” or someone asks them to, Islaam encourages people to think for themselves, reflect on the signs of God in Creation and within their own selves. Little wonder then that a sizable number of reverts are thinking people: scientists, astronomers, philosophers, doctors.

As created beings who can neither grant life nor ward off death, we owe it to ourselves and The One Who Created Us to discover the Truth, to follow it and to facilitate others to do the same.

[Source: All quotes from "Why I chose Islaam" and "Islaam: My choice"]

[synergy777]

if you understand, you realsie, in this current climate, people will shoot you down. allah is the arabic for creator, a title not a name. if hinduism preceded islam and all other religions, then what are, yhwh, allah, creator, father/mother, source, origin. why argue about classification, when we are far from being worthy to call ourselves by any of the names, maybe we should correct ourselves, fix up, wise up and then worry about titles.

evrybody wants classification, defintion, pigeon holed, when they should wake up and realise, labels are nothing. i am this, i am that etc, just be yourself.

[john white]

There's a lot of Truth in this article: I have a lot of Love for the understanding of God afforded by Islam: the God seen by an awakened Muslim is the same God I see

Let us not forget though, that after 1,400 years there is much about Islam that does deserve to be questioned: a lot of ego, manipulation and control pouring poison into the well, and what is right wholesome and true in Islam is right, true and wholesome in many other paths too

[Anders Lindman]

If we were all born Muslims, how come western society is saturated by usury?

[synergy777]

all religions are an addition/correction of the one original religion. all speak of creator, messenger and teachers. all speak of love, equality, liberty, unity. all speak of compassion, treating others as you would be like to be treated etc.

there corruptions in all religions. the christian corruptions are well known, so are the muslim ones. the certain things i do not like about islam are the burkha, which is hadith not koran, the issa stories with clay pgeons etc, the tribal law masquerading as koranic law. all need to fixed. although mohammed, did say the time would come when islam would be corrupted. we are now in that time.

[intruder]

let's not argue about this....but ah, positive terror...YOU'RE WRONG!!!!!

[Anders Lindman]

although mohammed, did say the time would come when islam would be corrupted. we are now in that time.

I read somewhere that Mohammed was an expert in economics. Usury is probably creeping into even Islam. Jesus too was against usury as when he threw out the money changers from the temple.

[moonoodoo]

Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!

Have you proof of claim that I was born?

[john white]

The answer is that our Creator has granted each one of us a guiding light -- a pure, undefiled innate nature called the fitrah. Unlike Christians who believe in the doctrine of Original Sin and assert that each baby is born tainted with the sin of Adam’s disobedience to God, Muslims believe that every child is born into a state of purity where it recognizes its Creator and is naturally subservient to His laws

Here is a great example of wisdom

"Original Sin": that is Duality Consciousness, is an imbalance, a meme, a virus in the human collective consciousness, an energy feild that is collectively created here by our ignorance, built on the tragedy of the ignorance of those who have gone before, back to the time of the fall, that we have to cope with upon our manifestation here: not a flaw in the heart of the human soul

The creator does not create imperfection: but we, lost in the darkness of the ego, do shit on perfection: until we awaken, and come to inner health

Then we come to our true roles, as caretakers of "His" Garden, and of each other

[LasseMaja]

John white, you are indeed wise. ;)

[positive terror]

John white, you are indeed wise. ;)

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

[revolutionary_jam]

Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!

No, in your opinion I was born a Muslim because you believe in Islam and Islam states that everyone is born a Muslim.

Just because something is your opinion doesn't make it true,

therefor I reject your claim I was born a Muslim, just as I reject the claim of my parents that I was born Jewish. End.

[synergy777]

if the creator al = the lah creator, created you then you are.

what you think, don't change the facts. opinions are worthless.

the thing is western society has been so feminised, you can't handle the truth/karma, its all so terribly shocking isn't.

[mada88]

You might be a muslim but we are not all muslims. We where not all born a muslim. Oh oh you can't ba mouth the muslims! :eek:

[synergy777]

you confusing muslims with your white zionist masters, the ones you sacrificed your ancestors in two world wars for, for their false state called israel. goyim is your term, angloboyo.

considering you are supposed to modern/media savvy rather crap aren't we georgie, lol

[dondaz]

Raised in a non-religous family and at the age of 14 I was christened by the Church of England. 20 or so years later I find out that the church I was christened in is in fact a Masonic Temple.

Now I'm told I was born a muslim.

Is it any wonder that I have no faith in religion?

To me they are all a system of control!

We are gods, not some institution or order who gives out books of truth!

[thetonic]

John white, you are indeed wise. ;)

Indeed he is.... One can not be born into an indoctrination or belief, therefore one cannot be born "muslim", "christian", or "bhuddist" for that matter... The beliefs of a system of true religion are based upon a system of guidelines for one to follow and lead a "good" natured life... In my opinion , if the system does not fully embrace LOVE as its fundamental principal and does not practice LOVE (to others, and oneself), then that system is not a true religion.. IT IS SOMETHING ELSE ALTOGETHER THAT IS A SYSTEM OF CONTROL! NOT PUT THERE TO BENEFIT ALL , BUT TO BENEFIT ONE! Unfortunately this is how most "religions" are seen, and used today... with a few exceptions;):p

[positive terror]

The reason why mankind was created



Firstly:

One of the greatest attributes of Allaah is wisdom, and one of His greatest names is al-Hakeem (the most Wise). It should be noted that He has not created anything in vain; exalted be Allaah far above such a thing. Rather He creates things for great and wise reasons, and for sublime purposes. Those who know them know them and those who do not know them do not know them. Allaah has stated that in His Holy Book, where He says that He has not created mankind in vain, and He has not created the heavens and the earth in vain. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?”

116. So Exalted be Allaah, the True King: Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Lord of the Supreme Throne!”

[al-Mu’minoon 23:115, 116]

“We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them for a (mere) play”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:16]

“And We created not the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, for mere play.

39. We created them not except with truth (i.e. to examine and test those who are obedient and those who are disobedient and then reward the obedient ones and punish the disobedient ones), but most of them know not”

[al-Dukhaan 44:38]

“Haa‑Meem.

[These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur’aan, and none but Allaah (Alone) knows their meanings.]

2. The revelation of the Book (this Qur’aan) is from Allaah, the All‑Mighty, the All‑Wise.

3. We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them except with truth, and for an appointed term. But those who disbelieve, turn away from that whereof they are warned”

[al-Ahqaaf 46:1-3]

Just as it is proven that there is wisdom behind the creation of man from the standpoint of sharee’ah, it is also proven from the standpoint of reason. The wise man cannot but accept that things have been created for a reason, and the wise man regards himself as being above doing things in his own life for no reason, so how about Allaah, the Wisest of the wise?

Hence the wise believers affirm that there is wisdom in Allaah’s creation, and the kuffaar deny that. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.

191. Those who remember Allaah (always, and in prayers) standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth, (saying): Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose, glory to You! (Exalted are You above all that they associate with You as partners). Give us salvation from the torment of the Fire”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:190, 191]

And Allaah says, describing the attitude of the kuffaar towards the wisdom of His creation (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We created not the heaven and the earth and all that is between them without purpose! That is the consideration of those who disbelieve! Then woe to those who disbelieve (in Islamic Monotheism) from the Fire!”

[Saad 38:27]

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Allaah tells us of His perfect wisdom in creating the heavens and the earth, and that He has not created them in vain, i.e., in play with no beneficial purpose.

“That is the consideration of those who disbelieve” in their Lord, because they think that which does not befit His Majesty.

“Then woe to those who disbelieve (in Islamic Monotheism) from the Fire!” Allaah created the heavens and earth in truth for truth. He created them so that His slaves might understand the completeness of His knowledge and power and the extent of His might, and that He alone is the One to be worshipped, and not those who have not created even an atom in the heavens or on earth. And that they might know that the Resurrection is true and that Allaah will judge between the people of good and evil. The one who is ignorant of the wisdom of Allaah should not think that Allaah will treat them equally when judging them. Hence Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Shall We treat those who believe (in the Oneness of Allaah Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds as Mufsidoon (those who associate partners in worship with Allaah and commit crimes) on earth? Or shall We treat the Muttaqoon (the pious) as the Fujjaar (criminals, disbelievers, the wicked)?”

[Saad 38:28]

This does not befit Our wisdom and Our judgement. End quote.

Tafseer al-Sa’di, p. 712

Secondly:

Allaah has not created man to eat, drink and multiply, in which case he would be like the animals. Allaah has honoured man and favoured him far above many of those whom He has created, but many people insist on kufr, so they are ignorant of or deny the true wisdom behind their creation, and all they care about is enjoying the pleasures of this world. The life of such people is like that of animals, and indeed they are even more astray. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“while those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat as cattle eat; and the Fire will be their abode”

[Muhammad 47:12]

“Leave them to eat and enjoy, and let them be preoccupied with (false) hope. They will come to know!”

[al-Hijr 15:3]

“And surely, We have created many of the jinn and mankind for Hell. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones”

[al-A’raaf 7:179]

It is well known to wise people that the one who does a thing knows more about the wisdom behind it than anyone else and for Allaah is the highest description (cf. al-Nahl 16:60); He is the One Who has created mankind and He knows best the wisdom behind the creation of mankind. No one would dispute this with regard to worldly matters. All people are certain that their physical faculties have been created for a reason. The eye is for seeing, the ear is for hearing, and so on. Does it make sense for his physical faculties to have been created for a reason but for himself to have been created in vain? Or does he not agree to respond to the One Who created him when He tells him of the reason behind his creation?

Allaah has told us that the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of life and death, is for the purpose of testing, so as to test man. Whoever obeys Him, He will reward him, and whoever disobeys Him, He will punish him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds. But if you were to say to them: “You shall indeed be raised up after death,” those who disbelieve would be sure to say, “This is nothing but obvious magic”

[Hood 11:7]

“Who has created death and life that He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the All‑Mighty, the Oft‑Forgiving”

[al-Mulk 67:2]

From this test results a manifestation of the names and attributes of Allaah, such as Allaah’s names al-Rahmaan (the Most Gracious), al-Ghafoor (the Oft Forgiving), al-Hakeem (the Most Wise), al-Tawwaab (the Accepter of Repentance), al-Raheem (the Most Merciful), and other names of Allaah.

One of the greatest reasons for which Allaah has created mankind – which is one of the greatest tests – is the command to affirm His Oneness (Tawheed) and to worship Him alone with no partner or associate. Allaah has stated this reason for the creation of mankind, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)”

[al-Dhaariyaat 51:56]

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

i.e., I have created them so that I may command them to worship Me, not because I have any need of them. ‘Ali ibn Abi Talhah said, narrating from Ibn ‘Abbaas: “except that they should worship Me (alone)” willingly or unwillingly. This is the view favoured by Ibn Jareer. Ibn Jurayj said: i.e., except that they should know Me. Al-Rabee’ ibn Anas said: “Except that they should worship Me”, i.e., for the purpose of worship. End quote.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 4/239

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Allaah, may He be exalted, created mankind to worship Him and to know Him by His names and attributes, and to enjoin that upon them. Whoever submits to Him and does what is enjoined upon him will be one of those who are successful, but whoever turns away from that, they are the losers. He will inevitably gather them together in the Hereafter where He will reward or punish them for what He commanded and forbade them to do. Hence Allaah mentions how the mushrikeen denied the reward or punishment, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But if you were to say to them: ‘You shall indeed be raised up after death,’ those who disbelieve would be sure to say, ‘This is nothing but obvious magic’”

[Hood 11:7]

i.e., if you were to speak to these people and tell them about the Resurrection after death, they would not believe you, rather they would reject your words vehemently and deny the message you brought, and they would say, ‘This is nothing but obvious magic,’ but in fact it is obvious truth. End quote.

Tafseer al-Sa’di, p. 333

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

[heretic]

Dude, nobody read all of that ,NOBODY.


:D:D:D Dork

[ninpo]

Dude, nobody read all of that ,NOBODY.


:D:D:D Dork

No wonder you luv it here. You can put down the muzies to your heart's content...

[positive terror]

Dude, nobody read all of that ,NOBODY.


:D:D:D Dork

Ok NOBODY, this is your real name? :D

[heretic]

Ok NOBODY, this is your real name? :D

You can call me whatever you want sweetie. ;)

[seanx]

Heretic, don't waste your energy on these spammers

[positive terror]

You can call me whatever you want sweetie. ;)


Only kidding, nothing serious....are a woman??

[ninpo]

Heretic, don't waste your energy on these spammers

Yes, heretic is a spammer on your side.

[positive terror]

Heretic, don't waste your energy on these spammers

Spam??? what spam? Information its not a spam!!! You dont like to read , thats all.

[purpledream]

Women’s rights and status:
No doubt, influenced by the usual condemnation of Islam from Christian pulpits on the subject, I picked on polygamy. At last I thought I had something; obviously Western monogamy was an improvement on this old system. I talked of it to my Muslim friend. He illustrated with the aid of newspaper articles how much true monogamy there was in England, and convinced me that a limited polygamy was the answer to the secret unions that are becoming so distressingly common in the West. My own common sense could see that, particularly after a war, when women of a certain age group far outnumber men, a percentage of them are destined to remain spinsters. Did God give them life for that? I recollect that on the radio programme known as `Dear Sir' an unmarried English girl had called for lawful polygamy, saying she would prefer a shared married life rather than the loneliness to which she seemed to be destined. In Islam no one is forced into a polygamous marriage, but in a perfect religion, the opportunity must be there to meet those cases where it is necessary.

Oh please, like a woman needs a man to be happy. And if it works one way it should work both. If a man can have more than one wife, then women should be able to have more than one husband. We are all equal after all.

Islam is just another organised religion like any other, just a set of rules to control people who are too dumb to think for themselves.

[ninpo]

If a man can have more than one wife, then women should be able to have more than one husband. We are all equal after all.

False.

All womens must submit to men, as they all do for ninpo.

As it twas in teh begining...

[peachped]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/danish_cartoon_protest.jpg

Silly Muslims.:rolleyes:

[seanx]

ninpo or dipo - or whatever you call yourself the mistake people
make is taking people like you seriously.

You'll post 90-100 meaningless posts, and then like a little child -
you'll get bored with this little game - and off you'll run to play
with a new toy!

This is an adult's forum - anyway, it's probably way past your bedtime.

Off you go! And don't forget to say your prayers!

[positive terror]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/danish_cartoon_protest.jpg

Silly Muslims.:rolleyes:

Yeah, protecting their ideas....not like anothers :rolleyes:

[joss classey]

nothing should be anything

it is as it is and that's that

but by saying this i am not saying that things should be the way they are

they just are

we just are

everything else is just an idea

(maybe even we are just an idea)

food for thought there!

[positive terror]

You'll post 90-100 meaningless posts, and then like a little child -
you'll get bored with this little game

Well you too!!!

[seanx]

Purpledream wrote:

Oh please, like a woman needs a man to be happy. And if it works one way it should work both. If a man can have more than one wife, then women should be able to have more than one husband. We are all equal after all.

Islam is just another organised religion like any other, just a set of rules to control people who are too dumb to think for themselves.

Now positive terror, your worst nightmare - an intelligent, strong, independent WOMAN - exposing the nonsense you believe in.

[positive terror]

Purpledream wrote:

.

Now positive terror, your worst nightmare - an intelligent, strong, independent WOMAN - exposing the nonsense you believe in.

This is connected primarily to faith in Allaah. All religions are agreed that it is not permissible for a woman to have intercourse with anyone except her husband. Among these religions are those which are undoubtedly of heavenly origin, such as Islam and the original versions of Judaism and Christianity. Belief in Allaah dictates submission to His rulings and laws, for Allaah is All-Wise and All-Knowing, He knows what is in the best interests of mankind. So we may understand the wisdom behind the ruling of sharee’ah, or we may not be able to grasp it.

With regard to the permissibility of multiple spouses for men and its prohibition for women, there are several issues which are obvious to every intelligent person. Allaah has made woman like a vessel, but man is not like that. If a woman becomes pregnant (when she has had intercourse with a number of men at one time), the father can never be known. People’s lines of descent and lineage will be mixed up, families will be destroyed and children will be lost. Women will be burdened with so many children that they will be unable to bring them up and spend on their maintenance. Maybe women would find themselves forced to sterilize themselves, which would lead to the extinction of the human race. Moreover it is medically proven now that one of the major causes of the serious diseases which have become widespread, such as AIDS etc., is women having intercourse with more than one man, and the mixing of seminal fluids in the woman’s womb causes these lethal diseases. Hence Allaah has prescribed a waiting period (‘iddah) for a woman who has been divorced or whose husband has died, until enough time has passed for her womb and passages to be cleansed of any traces of her former husband, and the monthly period also has a role to play in this matter. Perhaps these brief pointers will dispense with the need for a lengthy discussion. If the purpose of the question is research for a university or other assignment, he may refer to the books which have been written on the topic of plural marriage (polygyny) and the wisdom behind it. And Allaah is the Source of strength.

[john white]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/danish_cartoon_protest.jpg

Silly Muslims.:rolleyes:

Photoshopped banner messages. About a year ago, I had some pictures that absolutely pwned the press reporting around the beheading story, but they got lost when Harris's place went down. Mind you wahabism is nothing to shout home about: but then extreme varients of religions always arise out of social pressures

[seanx]

This is connected primarily to faith in Allaah. All religions are agreed that it is not permissible for a woman to have intercourse with anyone except her husband. Among these religions are those which are undoubtedly of heavenly origin, such as Islam and the original versions of Judaism and Christianity. Belief in Allaah dictates submission to His rulings and laws, for Allaah is All-Wise and All-Knowing, He knows what is in the best interests of mankind. So we may understand the wisdom behind the ruling of sharee’ah, or we may not be able to grasp it.

With regard to the permissibility of multiple spouses for men and its prohibition for women, there are several issues which are obvious to every intelligent person. Allaah has made woman like a vessel, but man is not like that. If a woman becomes pregnant (when she has had intercourse with a number of men at one time), the father can never be known. People’s lines of descent and lineage will be mixed up, families will be destroyed and children will be lost. Women will be burdened with so many children that they will be unable to bring them up and spend on their maintenance. Maybe women would find themselves forced to sterilize themselves, which would lead to the extinction of the human race. Moreover it is medically proven now that one of the major causes of the serious diseases which have become widespread, such as AIDS etc., is women having intercourse with more than one man, and the mixing of seminal fluids in the woman’s womb causes these lethal diseases. Hence Allaah has prescribed a waiting period (‘iddah) for a woman who has been divorced or whose husband has died, until enough time has passed for her womb and passages to be cleansed of any traces of her former husband, and the monthly period also has a role to play in this matter. Perhaps these brief pointers will dispense with the need for a lengthy discussion. If the purpose of the question is research for a university or other assignment, he may refer to the books which have been written on the topic of plural marriage (polygyny) and the wisdom behind it. And Allaah is the Source of strength.

Here's an idea, positive terror: Ever try having an original thought of your own.

Or will you have to research what Allah says about that - before you can venture an opinion?

[positive terror]

Here's an idea, positive terror: Ever try having an original thought of your own.

Or will you have to research what Allah says about that - before you can venture an opinion?


Anyway I use my opinions in the things that are outside of the religion,
you and me we make errors, and Allah is perfect.

[cheeb]

Photoshopped banner messages. About a year ago, I had some pictures that absolutely pwned the press reporting around the beheading story, but they got lost when Harris's place went down. Mind you wahabism is nothing to shout home about: but then extreme varients of religions always arise out of social pressures

If the truth,
Be known,
This sort of stuff,
Is meant to intimadate you,
So there is no opposition,
There will always be opposition to violence,
Opression,
Intimidation,
Just think:
Pankhurst,
Mandella,
Ghandi,
Opression and intimadation,
Are the tools of dictators,
And 20th century thinking.

Peace,
One Love

[peachped]

Photoshopped banner messages? I saw a lady writing these placards up on the news.

"I had some pictures that absolutely pwned the press reporting around the beheading story, but they got lost when Harris's place went down."

Well how inconvenient.

"wahabism is nothing to shout home about: but then extreme varients of religions always arise out of social pressures"

Social pressures? John - They are advocating BEHEADING people who disagree with them!

[joss classey]

Anyway I use my opinions in the things that are outside of the religion,
you and me we make errors, and Allah is perfect.

oxymoronic statements like 'positive terror' are difficult to grasp

i'm going to be honest

i'm having real trouble understanding it

[positive terror]

They are advocating BEHEADING people who disagree with them!

Correct that, who INSULT them, thats different.

[positive terror]

oxymoronic statements like 'positive terror' are difficult to grasp

i'm going to be honest

i'm having real trouble understanding it

what you don't understand ? maybe I don't explain myself well.

[seanx]

Who's this Allah gesser?

He seems to be a great man alltogether.

[peachped]

Correct that, who INSULT them, thats different.

Yes fair enough on that positive, but I still think it's a bit harsh to advocate beheading for an insult. :rolleyes:

[positive terror]

Yes fair enough on that positive, but I still think it's a bit harsh to advocate beheading for an insult. :rolleyes:

I understand you, but it is a way to affirm that they practice their religion in a very serious way, and that they must leave them with calm and they don't anger them, or they become nuclear!

...something like that :rolleyes:

[cheeb]

Positive Terror,
This man had a message for humanity,
A message of peace and unity,

Martin Luther King Jn.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iEMXaTktUfA

This should be someone to look up to,
Not preachers of hate,

One love

[john white]

Photoshopped banner messages? I saw a lady writing these placards up on the news.

"I had some pictures that absolutely pwned the press reporting around the beheading story, but they got lost when Harris's place went down."

Well how inconvenient.

"wahabism is nothing to shout home about: but then extreme varients of religions always arise out of social pressures"

Social pressures? John - They are advocating BEHEADING people who disagree with them!

Yes indeed: how inconvieniant. Not without precedent though... Reuters got caught out with widescale photoshopping of extra flames to exaggerate Hezzbolah rocket attacks last year. This stuff does happen: but I can't have everything saved on my hard drive. You can beleive me or not, its no matter. Fact is though, theres a small bunch who get automatic press, but they no more represent the entire of Islam and Islamic history than the KKK represent christianity: or ascended master worshiping channelers represent cosmic consciousness and personal contact with the divine. Religion has undoubtably been used to imprison and control, to divide and subvert: but don't assume becuase of that there isnt a foundation of genuine communion with God to be found within scripture. "He" is always talking: its for us to shut-the-fuck-up our inner noise in order to listen. Angry people burning flags and holding banners have forgoten that (setting aside the manipulation that certainly goes on): if in fact they ever knew

[peachped]

Yes indeed: how inconvieniant. Not without precedent though... Reuters got caught out with widescale photoshopping of extra flames to exaggerate Hezzbolah rocket attacks last year. This stuff does happen: but I can't have everything saved on my hard drive. You can beleive me or not, its no matter. Fact is though, theres a small bunch who get automatic press, but they no more represent the entire of Islam and Islamic history than the KKK represent christianity: or ascended master worshiping channelers represent cosmic consciousness and personal contact with the divine. Religion has undoubtably been used to imprison and control, to divide and subvert: but don't assume becuase of that there isnt a foundation of genuine communion with God to be found within scripture. "He" is always talking: its for us to shut-the-fuck-up our inner noise in order to listen. Angry people burning flags and holding banners have forgoten that (setting aside the manipulation that certainly goes on): if in fact they ever knew

I agree with that John, but cannot accept the photoshopping theory. They sureley can't photoshop film that anyone can see for themselves on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs&mode=related&search=

[kashmirz]

I was born as infinant consciousness and slowly manipulated from there :)


hehehe

[heretic]

I agree with that John, but cannot accept the photoshopping theory. They sureley can't photoshop film that anyone can see for themselves on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs&mode=related&search=

That video is enough to give you a migraine.

[positive terror]

That video is enough to give you a migraine.


Well , i think we are all against the crusaders on this forum, the crusaders are a part of the illuminati...

[dondaz]

Photoshopped banner messages. About a year ago, I had some pictures that absolutely pwned the press reporting around the beheading story, but they got lost when Harris's place went down.

I read about that somewhere last year. Would be gr8 if they came to light again eh. Something else to throw back at them.

This sort of stuff,
Is meant to intimadate you,
So there is no opposition,
There will always be opposition to violence,
Opression,
Intimidation,
Just think:
Pankhurst,
Mandella,
Ghandi,
Opression and intimadation,
Are the tools of dictators,

Cheeb, my thoughts exactly!

[purpledream]

This is connected primarily to faith in Allaah. All religions are agreed that it is not permissible for a woman to have intercourse with anyone except her husband. Among these religions are those which are undoubtedly of heavenly origin, such as Islam and the original versions of Judaism and Christianity. Belief in Allaah dictates submission to His rulings and laws, for Allaah is All-Wise and All-Knowing, He knows what is in the best interests of mankind. So we may understand the wisdom behind the ruling of sharee’ah, or we may not be able to grasp it.

With regard to the permissibility of multiple spouses for men and its prohibition for women, there are several issues which are obvious to every intelligent person. Allaah has made woman like a vessel, but man is not like that. If a woman becomes pregnant (when she has had intercourse with a number of men at one time), the father can never be known. People’s lines of descent and lineage will be mixed up, families will be destroyed and children will be lost. Women will be burdened with so many children that they will be unable to bring them up and spend on their maintenance. Maybe women would find themselves forced to sterilize themselves, which would lead to the extinction of the human race. Moreover it is medically proven now that one of the major causes of the serious diseases which have become widespread, such as AIDS etc., is women having intercourse with more than one man, and the mixing of seminal fluids in the woman’s womb causes these lethal diseases. Hence Allaah has prescribed a waiting period (‘iddah) for a woman who has been divorced or whose husband has died, until enough time has passed for her womb and passages to be cleansed of any traces of her former husband, and the monthly period also has a role to play in this matter. Perhaps these brief pointers will dispense with the need for a lengthy discussion. If the purpose of the question is research for a university or other assignment, he may refer to the books which have been written on the topic of plural marriage (polygyny) and the wisdom behind it. And Allaah is the Source of strength.


Thank you, you just confirmed to me how brainwashed and controlled you are. No one decides for me who I do and don't have sex with, especially some fictional character in that story book you read. I suppose it tells you that men can shag who ever they want without giving their wife any diseases too does it?

I guess I should have said that we are all equal, as long as we are thinking for ourselves. Anyone else is just a puppet.

[john white]

I agree with that John, but cannot accept the photoshopping theory. They sureley can't photoshop film that anyone can see for themselves on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs&mode=related&search=

Well I was, TBH, just waking up when I said "photoshopping!" to the image in this thread. Maybe I jumped the gun: but there was really good evidence of manipulated images on one occasion: doesnt mean it was the same one, or the same one as the you-tube vid. These kinds of irrational demo's do happen: but they also get spun to create a "bogeyman" of irrational fear in return

[peachped]

Yes I agree that Islam is getting spun allright,you only have to look at the terrorist arrests/ conviction rate, but it does make such a good bogeyman for the NWO.

[auron]

Was i born a Muslim? I dunno, I'll have to check........

[amerigirl]

Thanks for letting me know I was born Muslim!! I was beginning to think for myself and it was kinda getting scary, but aaaah, much better now in my little box, nice and safe, all this other stuff just must be Allah's plan :)

[kblood]

This Allah god doesnt seem to bad. Any muslim that kills or does something else to ruin the life of someone going against the words of Allah, and for that reason alone, deserves to be beheaded him or her -self in my oppinion.

No matter what religion is followed, one evil should not be righted by another evil. However rightous the cause may be.

Positive Terror, many of the posts seem good and are very informative, but I do hope that you dont find women as no more than vessels for our babies, the cause of all sexual diseases and less intelligent than men... Do you?

As far as I know, there are religions where women are in fact the ones that are the most holy of the genders, since they are the bringers of life. Men are usually more likely to be the bringers of death than women. As I see it anyway... or is that a sexist thing to say? :confused:

Just to lighten it all up a bit... here is a few more smilies :D:D:D

I could live with the the Koran as my religion, since I do see it as something that can be followed with a pure soul, so to speak. I just rather live my life the way I like to live it instead. No way will I begin fasting and kneeling at set times and dates due to some religion :eek: Who knows, maybe when I get older and my spirit beings to be more peacefull, then maybe I will find some religion to make me pass the time with.

[positive terror]

Thanks for your coment kblood, about the women read this please:

Rights of women in Islam



Praise be to Allaah.

Islam honours women greatly. It honours women as mothers who must be respected, obeyed and treated with kindness. Pleasing one's mother is regarded as part of pleasing Allaah. Islam tells us that Paradise lies at the mother’s feet, i.e. that the best way to reach Paradise is through one's mother. And Islam forbids disobeying one’s mother or making her angry, even by saying a mild word of disrespect. The mother’s rights are greater than those of the father, and the duty to take care of her grows greater as the mother grows older and weaker. All of that is mentioned in many texts of the Qur'aan and Sunnah.

For example, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have enjoined on man to be dutiful and kind to his parents”

[al-Ahqaaf 46:15]

“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.

24. And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: ‘My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was young’”

[al-Isra’ 17:23, 24]

Ibn Maajah (2781) narrated that Mu’aawiyah ibn Jaahimiah al-Sulami (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her.” Then I approached him from the other side and said: O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her.” Then I approached him from in front and said, O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her (lit. stay by her feet), for there is Paradise.”

Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah. It was also narrated by al-Nasaa’i with the words: “Stay with her for Paradise is beneath her feet.”

Al-Bukhaari (5971) and Muslim (2548) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: A man came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, who is most deserving of my good company?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Then your father.”

And there are other texts which we do not have room to mention here.

One of the rights which Islam gives to the mother is that her son should spend on her if she needs that support, so long as he is able and can afford it. Hence for many centuries it was unheard of among the people of Islam for a mother to be left in an old-people’s home or for a son to kick her out of the house, or for her sons to refuse to spend on her, or for her to need to work in order to eat and drink if her sons were present.

Islam also honours women as wives. Islam urges the husband to treat his wife in a good and kind manner, and says that the wife has rights over the husband like his rights over her, except that he has a degree over her, because of his responsibility of spending and taking care of the family’s affairs. Islam states that the best of the Muslim men is the one who treats his wife in the best manner, and the man is forbidden to take his wife’s money without her consent. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and live with them honourably”

[al-Nisa’ 4:19]

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

[al-Baqarah 2:228]

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to treat women well.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 331; Muslim, 1468.

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

And Islam honours women as daughters, and encourages us to raise them well and educate them. Islam states that raising daughters will bring a great reward. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever takes care of two girls until they reach adulthood, he and I will come like this on the Day of Resurrection,” and he held his fingers together. Narrated by Muslim, 2631.

Ibn Maajah (3669) narrated that ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever has three daughters and is patient towards them, and feeds them, gives them to drink and clothes them from his riches, they will be a shield for him from the Fire on the Day of Resurrection.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.

Islam honours woman as sisters and as aunts. Islam enjoins upholding the ties of kinship and forbids severing those ties in many texts. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O people! Spread (the greeting of) salaam, offer food (to the needy), uphold the ties of kinship, and pray at night when people are sleeping, and you will enter Paradise in peace.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 3251; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.

Al-Bukhaari (5988) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah, may He be exalted, said to the ties of kinship: ‘Whoever upholds you, I will support him, and whoever breaks you, I will cut him off.’”

All of these qualities may co-exist in a single woman: she may be a wife, a daughter, a mother, a sister, an aunt, so she may be honoured in all these ways.

To conclude: Islam raised the status of women, and made them equal with men in most rulings. So women, like men, are commanded to believe in Allaah and to worship Him. And women are made equal to men in terms of reward in the Hereafter. Women have the right to express themselves, to give sincere advice, to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and to call people to Allaah. Women have the right to own property, to buy and sell, to inherit, to give charity and to give gifts. It is not permissible for anyone to take a woman’s wealth without her consent. Women have the right to a decent life, without facing aggression or being wronged. Women have the right to be educated; in fact it is obligatory to teach them what they need to know about their religion.

Anyone who compares the rights of women in Islam with their situation during the Jaahiliyyah or in other civilizations will understand that what we are saying is true. In fact we are certain that women are given the greatest honour in Islam.

There is no need for us to mention the situation of women in Greek, Persian or Jewish society, but even Christian societies had a bad attitude towards women. The theologians even gathered at the Council of Macon to discuss whether woman was merely a body or a body with a soul. They thought it most likely that women did not have a soul that could be saved, and they made an exception only in the case of Mary (Maryam – peace be upon her).

The French held a conference in 586 CE to discuss whether women had souls or not, and if they had souls, were these souls animal or human? In the end, they decided that they were human! But they were created to serve men only.

During the time of Henry VIII, the English Parliament issued a decree forbidding women to read the New Testament because they were regarded as impure.

Until 1805, English law allowed a man to sell his wife, and set a wife’s price at six pennies.

In the modern age, women were kicked out of the house at the age of eighteen so that they could start working to earn a bite to eat. If a woman wanted to stay in the house, she had to pay her parents rent for her room and pay for her food and laundry.

See ‘Awdat al-Hijaab, 2/47-56.

How can this compare to Islam which enjoins honouring and kind treatment of women, and spending on them?

Secondly:

With regard to the changes in these rights throughout the ages, the basic principles have not changed, but with regard to the application of these principles, there can be no doubt that during the golden age of Islam, the Muslims applied the sharee’ah of their Lord more, and the rulings of this sharee’ah include honouring one’s mother and treating one’s wife, daughter, sister and women in general in a kind manner. The weaker religious commitment grew, the more these rights were neglected, but until the Day of Resurrection there will continue to be a group who adheres to their religion and applies the sharee’ah of their Lord. These are the people who honour women the most and grant them their rights.

Despite the weakness of religious commitment among many Muslims nowadays, women still enjoy a high status, whether as daughters, wives or sisters, whilst we acknowledge that there are shortcomings, wrongdoing and neglect of women’s rights among some people, but each one will be answerable for himself.

[revolution 9]

Do you have any original thoughts, or can we look forward to more massive cutting and pasting from you?

[soglad]

Do you have any original thoughts, or can we look forward to more massive cutting and pasting from you?

No, his religion doesn't need him to be himself. It's all about handed down ideas as being "truth". He'll copy and paste again don't you worry.

I'm half temped to mark him for spamming...

[tinmenace]

PT,

You are born free, and then indoctrinated into religion. Nobody is born with a belief system. It's instilled in you via your parents, elders, schools, churches, government, etc.

You aren't BORN into anything. You're programmed with a belief system. The idea is to release yourself of all predisposed belief systems and to walk away from the prison it builds around your soul... This is what David talks about over and over in his books. You should try reading one.

[positive terror]

PT,

You are born free, and then indoctrinated into religion. Nobody is born with a belief system. It's instilled in you via your parents, elders, schools, churches, government, etc.

You aren't BORN into anything. You're programmed with a belief system. The idea is to release yourself of all predisposed belief systems and to walk away from the prison it builds around your soul... This is what David talks about over and over in his books. You should try reading one.

I would like that all the answers were as yours, I appreciate your contribution. I already said previously that I try to inform the users, mainly to the intelligent ones and that they make researches, the other ones alone they are here to criticize and they have time to glean old histories that I don't have time to make, as revolution 9 that it is a not well educated one.

If somebody doesn't interest him my contributions to the community ,only... doesn't read them, because it is not obligatory, save you criticize for the iluminati and the satanists (for example).

I hope not to have offended anybody

[revolution 9]

HAHAHAHAHA. First I'm a liar when I showed you were lying, then I'm uneducated when I showed you can't answer questions without coppying and pasting the answers.

I would take it personally, except I'm talking to someone who holds conversations with themselves several times a day and gets all their answers off Islam websites.

[positive terror]

HAHAHAHAHA. First I'm a liar when I showed you were lying, then I'm uneducated when I showed you can't answer questions without coppying and pasting the answers.

I would take it personally, except I'm talking to someone who holds conversations with themselves several times a day and gets all their answers off Islam websites.

I called you liar because I didn't believe that news, it is something horrible that didn't want to believe.At the same time I find something stupid.

If I glean in the news of any country of the world I would find worse things, but we are here to have a positive image of the reality and to fight against the world new order...I suppose..

I have Already commented more than once that my English is poor, my maternal language is Spanish, for that reason I cannot express myself in the way that I wanted.

And yes, you are not educated because you insult.

[mountain]

Oh please, like a woman needs a man to be happy. And if it works one way it should work both. If a man can have more than one wife, then women should be able to have more than one husband. We are all equal after all.

Islam is just another organised religion like any other, just a set of rules to control people who are too dumb to think for themselves.

It is interesting you stated that because I was having a discussion the other day concerning this and I agree. Do you know....in some Native American tribes the women were the ones who had multiple husbands and were consulted for everything...?! Yes yes.:D

[somethinganonymous]

What would you call a governing system whose beliefs, practices and followers are being bashed and bad-mouthed in practically every sphere of activity, in almost every corner of the globe, yet it attracts ever-increasing numbers of people?

A Paradox? A Miracle ? Or simply, The Truth: the NWO

[kblood]

In a way we were all born... part muslim ;) We cant all believe in the same thiings though.

Our differences is what makes us unique and part of our... singularity process.

In the end we will only know for sure by comparring all the old, new and ancient religions to find the real truth about past, present and future, and why they are all one.

[kblood]

Wow, I found another clue :D Strictly Sinatra shows who Frank Sinatra really is. In a way ;)

[kblood]

No, his religion doesn't need him to be himself. It's all about handed down ideas as being "truth". He'll copy and paste again don't you worry.

I'm half temped to mark him for spamming...

lol :D :cool: :o :eek: :p

[synergy777]

considering african & hinduism are the worlds oldest religions and that the three abrahamic faiths all were created by the previous two priesthoods/elite, you are in fact a hindu, lol

namaste brother

[lost_in_translation]

Religion was invented by man to divide and conquer man.

[octopusrex]

considering african & hinduism are the worlds oldest religions and that the three abrahamic faiths all were created by the previous two priesthoods/elite, you are in fact a hindu, lol

namaste brother

I think Shamans and Witch Doctors came frist myself. But the best damn witch doctors around seem to be dem crazy Brahmins.

[octopusrex]

Religion was invented by man to divide and conquer man.

Jah. Trouble is the inventors of religion are these really mean Gods who whopp yer ass.

[elirien]

Why get lost in the details. Read the damn book. See its practices. I don't want to see ignorant women in black hoods like the whores of babylon. I don't want to circle around a stone with half dressed sweaty dudes and pay for it while people die of poverty. Thats also islam. Killing the infidel for virgins in the afterlife is also islam. I mean come on. Its bullshit. walk away. You don't have to get lost in the damn details set by others.

I can't acknowledge a god that created hell. I can't acknowledge some doctrine that puts masses in ignorance. I know because I can see it first hand over here.

"Its a piece of shit. walk away."

Allah is older than Islam. He is the arabic moon god. Some people even believe that Islam will be used as the mass hypnotic tool for the NWO.

[kblood]

There might be some truth to what you say elirien, at least some parts of Islam surely is very corrupted.

Still it is not all lies. Arabic and parts of Islam contains very good knowledge and should also have very good tips on how to get to higher states of mind and thought, making body and soul act together more conciously.

I guess that it might be for the same reason that islam has been attacked almost from the very beginning. The good stuff in it, I do not know how much is left and how much is clutter, or how much is simply disinformation based upon misunderstandings, or trying to force it into being something it is not.

One of the clearly mind numbed rituals that comes from religion is the cutting of genitals. Making "a small cut" taking away some of the skin of the penis or the vagina. That is simply against human rights, if these people truly believe in Allah or any other greater being, then why would he make us flawed beings to begin with? Only complete dimwits to this. If someone does it willingly and knows what it is about, then its their own choice, my problem is doing it to children too young to even know what is happening.

Still, I think many would be surprised to know how few and small parts of the world follow Islam in the extreme ways we hear about in the news. Then again, I am sometimes still surprised to hear of how many parts are a bit extreme, at least from my point of view. Forcing girls to marry cousins and such, basicly free will not being part of it much. Free will does come with many new obligations though.

[elirien]

kblood, I understand you and believe me there are also very beautiful aspects in Islam. Sufism for one. But it is impossible to say that you are a Muslim and reject the parts of Islam that don't appeal to you. I feel not so bad about circumcision. Its a very healthy thing for the male body since it prevents the collection of bacteria etc. I see it as some evolutionary remnant. It is also done in hospitals. not related with ritual.

I believe that you can't see the finer details in Islam since you were not born into a society that is Muslim. There is no extremism in Islam as in lets say new age. In Islam and also in the old testament its o.k. to kill a sinner/infidel. God kills everyone in the flood of Noah. That is Islam. Its in its book that many people call the constitution of the universe. It is the extreme.

[haman]

Religion was invented by man to divide and conquer man.

say this is true ... what can we do about it ?
and how can we be united ?
and can we ??

[kblood]

I believe that you can't see the finer details in Islam since you were not born into a society that is Muslim. There is no extremism in Islam as in lets say new age. In Islam and also in the old testament its o.k. to kill a sinner/infidel. God kills everyone in the flood of Noah. That is Islam. Its in its book that many people call the constitution of the universe. It is the extreme.

Cutting of part of the genitals on a hospital is something I wouldnt agree with either. Then it is just doctors making decisions they shouldnt if they decide to cut a child who havent chosen so him or her self. As for massing bacteria, well, it those parts of the body are meant to be washing more than the other parts anyway. Not to be hidden away.

There is no extremism in Islam as in lets say new age.

So its not extreme to blow up people, to get into heaven and have virgins? For the sake of holy war?

If you dont see that as extreme, then I see you as deluded by the wrong parts of islam. I dont know how you classify new age, but how did that ever get extreme?

As I see it, Islam is very misinterpreted, and has been grossly miswritten as well. Sadly some people doesnt see this, and still follow it although tainted. If you believe you have to follow all of the islamic teachings, then I have to say I feel sorry for you. Although I dont mind killing of a few infidels under the right circumstances :o:D

The flood was a global cleansing. Something god should be let decide, instead of people. The sad thing is people use religions as an excuse to kill people, although the religions mostly doesnt agree with that, unless they bend the meaning of its words a bit. Grab out a few random lines out of their context, just to give them a completely different meaning and in another relation.

[bucktown777]

Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!



Believe It or Not: You're wrong!

I can understand your devotion to 'your' truth. I can understand that you wish everyone would just suddenly realize that Islaam is the only WAY to God. I even respect your right to propagandize this religion in order for you to attain more followers, but the bottom line here is that NO ONE was born ANYTHING, except, human.

It's not until a specific age when we, as humans, begin to choose labels for ourselves and begin to align our beliefs/morals/lifestyle with something we believe to be ultimate truth. Every religion seeks to become one with God the Creator, no matter which way you recognize him/her/it. The important thing is realizing that there is an aspect within us that is attributed to a higher power, creator if you will. We have free will to determine whatever we choose and the power to create our own realities.

Trying to trick/force everyone to believe they were born this or born that is just ridiculous and is no better of an attempt at control then the NWO itself. Everyone is free to believe as they wish, but keep in mind that the truth for 'you' does not mean that it is true for anyone else and to be honest, there is no such thing as 'positive' terror. Terror is fear, fear is doubt, doubt is negative.

[ufo_swatter]

Only growing fast because of overbreeding. Do something useful, go and save the planet.

[elirien]

So its not extreme to blow up people, to get into heaven and have virgins? For the sake of holy war?

If you dont see that as extreme, then I see you as deluded by the wrong parts of islam. I dont know how you classify new age, but how did that ever get extreme?

As I see it, Islam is very misinterpreted, and has been grossly miswritten as well. Sadly some people doesnt see this, and still follow it although tainted. If you believe you have to follow all of the islamic teachings, then I have to say I feel sorry for you. Although I dont mind killing of a few infidels under the right circumstances :o:D

The flood was a global cleansing. Something god should be let decide, instead of people. The sad thing is people use religions as an excuse to kill people, although the religions mostly doesnt agree with that, unless they bend the meaning of its words a bit. Grab out a few random lines out of their context, just to give them a completely different meaning and in another relation.

You still don't understand me. Those things are not extreme in Islam because it is written in the damn book. You can't exclude half of it and say thats not in my Islam or "god meant to say that...". It doesn't work that way. There is no half gravity or quarter resistance or fundamentalist magnetism in nature. There is only one Islam and that says non-muslims will burn in hell. I have to make a blood sacrifice to the moon god allah every year. I've got to walk around a damn stone with sweaty arabic dudes while having a cut dick. And there are the sufistic aspects of course. die before you die. don't sleep while your neighbour lives in poverty etc. etc. Which were very beautifly lived during the times of the Ottomans (where people have another wrong understanding labeling it an empire while their ethnic traditions were kept intact and no one was slaughtered. worth the research eh?).

Since you know why the flood was there I bow before you in awe and glorious adornment. You catching my drift ;) Its not everyday I meet the guy who made it. I don't know what the hell that was. But I know what it isn't and that is written by every so called "god" in every damn book almost.

Religions are the lifestyles of the elders. There is no bending needed for someone who is into them to kill somebody. If the law of religion was present in our courts we could fuck shit up pretty decently with the book fo religion at our backs people could kill, rape and some people would debate if it was such a good idea to revert to the fıkıh system (which is ordered to be upheld in the islamic book). Damn it I'm writing the last time. you can't bent and leave half of it away and say that is Islam. No. That is the mongrel bastard of Islam not Islam itself. Thats the same as people saying space is empty or there is nothing more then ourselves there. you can't do that. It is not real damn it. It is a romantic interpretation.

[elirien]

Only growing fast because of overbreeding. Do something useful, go and save the planet.

Totally right. man you've got to see the guys and those black tents huddled around them. It makes one believe in a sweaty and smelly hell that we call the public transportation system. Don't start on Islam before riding in a bus in Turkey :D They are out-fucking everyone.

[guuna]

Get one thing straight, and no offence is intended by this: Islam is fast growing due to the countries where it predominates have fast growing populations, not programmes of evangelization.

Also the Muslim world has considerable financial clout nowdays due to states such as Saudi Arabia with it's oil wealth as well as emerging producers such as Kazakstan, so casting 'the Muslim world' as the victim is not entirely accurate.

Muslim states terrorise Christian and other minorties in their countries too.E.G. Indonesia and Sudan.

I am not saying that this justifies the oil war in Iraq or Afganistan but lets look at the real picture.

[elirien]

You are right. Even though thats not only Islam's feature. In this system, over-population means a cancer for the intellect. People get malnourished, get less education (even though it is indoctrination learning some basic maths and language skills is not such a bad idea). These people who are also victim to sensory deprivation become unhappy and later on ragefull. You can't even imagine how they react to the summer. People kill their families and either kill themselves or run away after that. Control your urges damn it. You don't have to have 6 wives which have a oppressed sex craze.

[picha]

One thing I can never understand about islam is how muslims seem to think mohammed is the example for everyone to follow.

Ive read lots of things about the kind of things he did and im absolutely dumbfounded as to how they can say he is the greatest example of a human being.

For example 'marrying' 2 jewish women on the same day he beheaded their husbands.

[talkingchimp]

Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!

Umm Rashid


What would you call a religion whose beliefs, practices and followers are being bashed and bad-mouthed in practically every sphere of activity, in almost every corner of the globe, yet it attracts ever-increasing numbers of people?

A Paradox? A Miracle ? Or simply, The Truth: Islaam.

The fact that Islaam is the fastest growing religion in the world today, is proof that our Creator has taken it upon Himself to perfect the Truth that He sent all His prophets and messengers with -- from Aadam [AS] to Muhammad [SAW].

Studies conducted in the West show that the sheer number of new Muslims is changing the demographic profile of countries all over the world, and not all of them are born into Muslim families. With some 6 million adherents in the United States, Islam is said to be the nation’s fastest-growing religion. One expert estimates that 25,000 people a year become Muslims in this country; some clerics say they have seen conversion rates quadruple since Sept 11.

Ironically for a religion that is routinely bashed for “subjugating” and “oppressing” its female followers, the number of female reverts to Islaam outnumber the males 4:1!

The fact that more and more people are finding their way to Islaam, notwithstanding the relentless propaganda, deliberate misinformation and outright prejudice against it, never ceases to amaze me.

How do these people navigate in the darkness to find the light of Islaam in spite of all the obstacles in the way?

The answer is that our Creator has granted each one of us a guiding light -- a pure, undefiled innate nature called the fitrah. Unlike Christians who believe in the doctrine of Original Sin and assert that each baby is born tainted with the sin of Adam’s disobedience to God, Muslims believe that every child is born into a state of purity where it recognizes its Creator and is naturally subservient to His laws.

In his book The Fundamentals of Islaamic Monotheism, Abu Ameenah Bilaal Philips writes: Just as a child’s body submits to the physical laws which Allaah has put in nature, its soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allaah is its Lord and Creator. But its parents try to make it follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of its life to resist or oppose its parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allaah does not hold it to account for this religion.

When the child matures in youth and clear proofs of the falsehood of its religion are brought to it, the adult must now follow the religion of knowledge and reason. At this point the devils try their best to encourage him to stay as he is or to go further astray. Evils are made pleasing to him and he must now live in the midst of a struggle between his innate pure nature and his desires in order to find the right road.

If he chooses to follow his innate nature, his fitrah, Allaah will help him overcome his desires even though it may take most of his life to escape, for many people enter Islaam in their old age.

The Qur’aan also points to this phenomenon, where every soul that has been created is asked Who their Lord is, and they testify that it is none other than Allaah before they are born into the world.

When your Lord drew forth from the loins of the children of Aadam their descendants and made them testify concerning themselves. Saying: Am I not your Lord? They said: “Yes, we testify to it.” (This) in case you say on the Day of Judgement, “We were unaware of this.” Or in case you say: It was our ancestors who made partners (with Allaah) and we are only their descendants…[Surah Al-A’raaf 7:172-173]

Explaining this verse, the Prophet [SAW] said: When Allaah created Aadam [AS] , He took a covenant from him …then He extracted from him all of his descendants who would be born until the end of the world, generation after generation and spread them out in front of Him in order to take a covenant from them.

He spoke to them face to face saying: Am I not your Lord? And they all replied: Yes, we testify to it.

Allaah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He was their Creator and the only true God worthy of worship. He said: That was in case you (mankind) should say on the Day of Resurrection, “Surely we were unaware of all this. We had no idea that You were our God.” [Silsilah al ahadeeth as Saheehah, Narrated by ibn Abbaas, collected by Imaam Ahmad]

This is the reason why people who adopt Islaam are said to revert instead of convert, because they are going back to their original nature -- the one they were naturally created with -- which is automatically aligned with the Universe, its Creator and His Laws; as opposed to simply exchanging one set of beliefs for another.

Reverts to Islaam testify that this inner inclination to search for the Truth, to know and follow it is a major factor in their adopting the faith. It is interesting to see some of the reasons cited by reverts for adopting Islaam:

Islaamic Monotheism
“The Christian sect of Athanasians insistently inculcates the tenet that Christianity is based on a belief in three gods (Trinity), that a slightest doubt as to this belief will lead one to immediate perdition; and that a person who wishes to attain salvation in this world and the next should definitely hold a belief in the three gods: God, the Son of God, and the Holy Ghost.

When I became a Muslim, I received a letter, which said: “By becoming a Muslim you have damned yourself to perdition. No one can save you. For you deny the divinity of God.” The poor man [who wrote that letter] thought that I no longer believed in God, not knowing that when Jesus had begun to preach, he stated the unity of God and he never claimed to be His son.

[Lord Headley al-Farooq; British diplomat, engineer]

An answer for every question:
“I would always search for causes and purposes for everything. I would anticipate logical explanations for them. On the other hand, the explanations provided by priests and other Christian men of religion did not satisfy me. Most of the time, instead of giving satisfactory answers to my questions, they would dismiss the matter with evasive prevarications such as, “We cannot understand these things. They are divine secrets” and “They are beyond the grasp of the human mind.”

Upon this I decided to study, on the one hand, Oriental religions, and on the other hand, books written by famous philosophers. The books written by these philosophers always dealt with such subjects as protoplasms, atoms, molecules, and particles, and did not even touch on reflections such as “What becomes of the human soul?” “Where does the soul go after death?” “How should we discipline our souls in this world?”

The Islamic religion, on the other hand, treated the human subject not only within the corporeal areas, but also along the spiritual extensions. Therefore, I chose Islam not because I had lost my way, or only because Christianity had incurred my displeasure, or as a result of sudden decision, but, on the contrary, after very minutely studying it and becoming thoroughly convinced about its greatness, singularity, solemnity and perfection

[Muhammad Alexander Russell Webb; American diplomat, author]

Direct relationship with one’s Creator:
Now I realize I can get in direct contact with God, unlike Christianity or any other religion. As one Hindu lady told me, “You don't understand the Hindus. We believe in one God; we use these objects (idols) to merely concentrate.” What she was saying was that in order to reach God, one has to create associates, that are idols for the purpose. But Islam removes all these barriers.

[Yusuf Islaam, formerly Cat Stevens]

Universality:
Islam is a religion that belongs not only to the Arabs but to the entire humanity. This universal quality presents a sharp contrast with the Judaic religion, whose holy book always refers to the God of Israel.

One more thing that I love in Islam is that this religion recognizes all the prophets, makes no distinction between them and treats the believers of other religions with compassion.

[Mahmud Gunnar Ahmad, Swedish Muslim]

Absolute equality before God, extended brotherhood:
There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.

America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color.

You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought-patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.

During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept on the same rug - while praying to the same God - with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the deeds of the white Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana. We were truly all the same (brothers) - because their belief in one God had removed the white from their minds, the white from their behavior, and the white from their attitude.

[Letter written from Makkah, by Malcolm X]

Purity of prayer:
If I were asked what impressed me most in the religion of Islam, I would probably say the prayers, because prayers in Christianity are used wholly in begging God (through Jesus Christ) to grant worldly favours, whereas in Islam they ar used to give praise and thanks to Almighty God for all His blessings since He knows what is necessary for our welfare and grants us what we need without our asking it.

[Cecilia Mahmuda Cannolly, Australian Muslim]

Women’s rights and status:
No doubt, influenced by the usual condemnation of Islam from Christian pulpits on the subject, I picked on polygamy. At last I thought I had something; obviously Western monogamy was an improvement on this old system. I talked of it to my Muslim friend. He illustrated with the aid of newspaper articles how much true monogamy there was in England, and convinced me that a limited polygamy was the answer to the secret unions that are becoming so distressingly common in the West. My own common sense could see that, particularly after a war, when women of a certain age group far outnumber men, a percentage of them are destined to remain spinsters. Did God give them life for that? I recollect that on the radio programme known as `Dear Sir' an unmarried English girl had called for lawful polygamy, saying she would prefer a shared married life rather than the loneliness to which she seemed to be destined. In Islam no one is forced into a polygamous marriage, but in a perfect religion, the opportunity must be there to meet those cases where it is necessary.

[Mavis B Jolly, UK]

Belief in the Qur’aan as Divine Revelation:
I read as much of the Qur’aan as I could. I was immersed in it. As I read the verses in English, I repeated to myself over and over again, this is what I have always thought and believed. What kind of book was this? Before long I was reading the book and crying, and reading and crying... it was as if something had overtaken me... I forgot what I was looking for in particular, however when I came upon the verses in Surah Baqarah 122-141 regarding Prophet Ibrahim (AS) I had found my answer.

I had been searching for Isma'il (as), son of Prophet Ibrahim and his wife Hajarah, who had been missing from the Hebrew brothers story. In those verses I found the truth of religion... They say: Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (to salvation). Say thou: Nay! (I would rather) the religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah. Say ye: We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) the Prophets from their Lord; We make no difference between one another of them: and we submit to Allah." (2:135-136) As I continued to read and cry, I became intent upon finding someone who could connect me with others who believed in this book!

[K H Abdul Lateef, USA]

The personal example of the Prophet Muhammad [SAW]:
I accepted Islam because I admired the Prophet Muhammad.[SAW]. I had quite a number of Muslim friends in Zanzibar, who gave me Islamic books, which I read in secrecy from my family. I became a Muslim despite the remonstrances of my family and the oppressions of the priests of Parsee religion, which had been my religion until that time. I held fast to my religion and resisted against all sorts of threats. Now I love Allaah and His last Prophet Muhammad [SAW] more than my life

[Faruq B Karai, Zanzibar]

Islaam withstands scrutiny and encourages reasoning:
Instead of asking a follower to believe in its precepts just ”because” or someone asks them to, Islaam encourages people to think for themselves, reflect on the signs of God in Creation and within their own selves. Little wonder then that a sizable number of reverts are thinking people: scientists, astronomers, philosophers, doctors.

As created beings who can neither grant life nor ward off death, we owe it to ourselves and The One Who Created Us to discover the Truth, to follow it and to facilitate others to do the same.

[Source: All quotes from "Why I chose Islaam" and "Islaam: My choice"]

actually i think you will find that football is the largest and fastest growing religion....it has gone from zero to 4 billion followers in little over a century, people gathering to large arena's to worship their own messiahs, its all relative.......in a thousand years david beckham will probably be some sort of religious icon.........football also has the classically designed sectarianism just like the religions of the past.......its all about attraction of PAYING followers, whether its a meat pie at half time or £2 in the prayer box its all the same. indoctrination into a cultural ideal. i tell you what though you get a damn sight more fun from watching football than islam. one final point, if you really wanted to know the origins of your religion you wouldnt be blinded by all your own dogma, its a problem for all followers of religion, all your boundaries would come crashing down around you if you belief system was changed so you tenuously hang onto your fragile beliefs. i suggest you look into two items. the amanita muscaria and psylocibe semilanceata....you will find your so called god.