Is masonry a necessary evil?

[edelweiss pirate]

I was watching this TV show t'other day about this pale middle class white guy who goes out to live with Brazilian Indians.

We got an incredible peek at the Brazilian Indians' rituals and different types of initiations. The initiations were often painful, particularly the ritual whipping of men and even the young children. The white guy was quite shocked to see children as young as 4 whipped somewhat. The reasoning behind this was this it made them fearless, discouraged laziness and made them more tolerant to pain.

Another initiation involved being pricked then having the poison from the poison arrow tree frog put into the wound. Obviously a highly uncomfortable experience, but arguable one which would strengthen the initiate and lead them to be imune from the effects of a poison which they handle frequently.

I say parallels with what the masons do in their initiations and it occurred that perhaps, masonry is a natural human creation, a necessary survival tool.

Listen, I am certainly not advocating masonry here because I know it's fucked and people who join have a really bad time, but maybe there has to be a system like this to maintain civilisation.

For example during the dark ages a unified civilisation did not exist and only returned with the arrival of the Knights Templar and they magic and initiatic science obtained from the muslim mystics the Assassins.

I just want to see what people out there think, I think there is a time and a place for pragmatism, much as we'd all like a perfect world, we have to understand that people aren't perfect and the material world is rather a hard place.

Also as long as we as individuals cannot visualise an alternative to the system that exists then there will not be an alternative....

[edelweiss pirate]

No but there was a point to male circumcision at one point in the past, these things aren#t just invented to fuck people up, there's always a reason behind it...

But the issue isn't circumcision it's Masonry itself.

[cruise4]

Speak for yourself... I can envisage an alternative easily.

No we categorically do not need masonry, any secret societies, wars or any of this other baloney. It serves 'the crown' and thats all.

[eternal_spirit]

Speak for yourself... I can envisage an alternative easily.

No we categorically do not need masonry, any secret societies, wars or any of this other baloney. It serves 'the crown' and thats all.
........

And the final solution get rid of all religion and we might all get along better. :)

[eternal_spirit]

You know there was a time before religion or masonry and all the other secret socities, long ago many many years ago man live in harmony with fellow man and nature. Oh to turn back time to a better place.

[eternal_spirit]

But we have the choice to change and reject all this nonsense and get back to reality. I've chosen, you can choose to.

[eternal_spirit]

Is masonry Evil is the Bible evil?

[eternal_spirit]

It's a fair question pirate. Is masonry evil? most people only have their opinion formed from reading conspiracies. We need to here it from those who are/were involved in masonic lodges. But that's not likely them being sworn to secrecy or either brainwashed to believe all is good. then the multiple meanings of what they teach and are taught.

History shows there are good and bad bad involved. The lower ranks the Blue Lodges which means all is out in the open not hidden, the higher up the ladder/degrees ( Jacob's Ladder ) the more hidden aspects arise and the symbolic meanings multiply. I wonder at times if the real secrets have no meaning and it's a red herring , to distract masons and non masons from the real word.
Confused ?Most Masons would seem to be.

[edelweiss pirate]

You know there was a time before religion or masonry and all the other secret socities, long ago many many years ago man live in harmony with fellow man and nature. Oh to turn back time to a better place.

When?

cruise4 Speak for yourself... I can envisage an alternative easily.

No we categorically do not need masonry, any secret societies, wars or any of this other baloney. It serves 'the crown' and thats all.

Tell us then...

Eternal Spirit the Masons' secret is not a fact but a perception.

Any pragmatic idealists out there? It's not all black and white.

[eternal_spirit]

At the top of the pyramid we have Lucifer, the boss? Ruler of the physical we call earth according to the scriptures( Bible )
Also symbolic of the Lucifarian enlightenment conciousness. Lucifer the light bringer ( knowledge ) To complicate matters more is Lucifer a physical being or in the form of Spirit? or neither,it may mean scientific knowledge, therefore God is Science to the masons, the ability to create and destroy. If the boss is bad and all orders may come from the top.

The ruler of the physical means just that, how to manipulate the physical world in their favour.

[cheesedanish]

You know there was a time before religion or masonry and all the other secret socities, long ago many many years ago man live in harmony with fellow man and nature. Oh to turn back time to a better place.


What did We Believe in Then?

[kblood]

The freemasons might be good at "opening" the minds of their followers, or whatever they should be called. Problem is how they keep it all secret, and use rituals to make sure that their followers use their "code of conduct".

I would even claim that Freemasonry is alot like Satanism. Seems to me like a merging or fusing of satanism and capitalism :)

I like the Wicca system alot better than the freemasons. Probably due to the fact that they like to work in nature and promote good health for out planet. The freemasons seems alot like their opposite. (also in terms of male and female, but sometimes there are males allowed into some Wiccan circles).

[thetonic]

When?



Tell us then...

Eternal Spirit the Masons' secret is not a fact but a perception.

Any pragmatic idealists out there? It's not all black and white.

And what exactly do you propose people dont understand about survival? That only the strong survive?... I thought that the meek would inherit the earth?... Aside from modern man being extremely out of touch with nature ie. how to farm, hunt, make shelter out of twigs and so on, I think with minor training people could be taught to survive in the wild , given they have the will power!

[eternal_spirit]

[quote=edelweiss pirate;105731]When?

Before religion ...Why not? It may well have been. Man would of seen his fellow man for being human and not have to add any other concept of religously created God's in various forms to debate or disagree on Creating a truer reality, that which is certain (man) not that what maybe ( God ) I just think all this talk of God complicates and confuses us humans on too many levels stopping us from just living our lives and being human.

Theology? theory Theologans. perception isn't always based on a proven reality.

[eternal_spirit]

What did We Believe in Then?

.........

Each others ability to experience reality as we knew it.

[thetonic]

And what exactly do you propose people dont understand about survival? That only the strong survive?... I thought that the meek would inherit the earth?... Aside from modern man being extremely out of touch with nature ie. how to farm, hunt, make shelter out of twigs and so on, I think with minor training people could be taught to survive in the wild , given they have the will power!

I could have swore someone said that people on this forum dont know anything about survival... Hmmm whered it go?:confused:

[mr_moon]

At the top of the pyramid we have Lucifer, the boss? Ruler of the physical we call earth according to the scriptures( Bible )
Also symbolic of the Lucifarian enlightenment conciousness. Lucifer the light bringer ( knowledge ) To complicate matters more is Lucifer a physical being or in the form of Spirit? or neither,it may mean scientific knowledge, therefore God is Science to the masons, the ability to create and destroy. If the boss is bad and all orders may come from the top.

The ruler of the physical means just that, how to manipulate the physical world in their favour.

It is neither good nor bad. It is merely something we must experience in order to evolve as Human Beings. Where would we be without these things? We would still be living in caves.

What has happened is the Human Consciousness has experienced an evolution into 'survival' therefore we act in ways to make sure we keep alive. In today's society, however, we do not need to 'survive' because our Consciousness has surpassed this and we are not in danger. FEAR has been manufactured to keep us in a 'perception' of survival.

The physical world isn't being manipulated in their favour- it's being manipulated in OUR favour but we just aren't aware of it. WE are the ones creating this reality...

It's a learning environment for us to become fully aware of the MAGNITUDE of the other dimensional realms. If none of this were happening- we wouldn't have a clue about them would we?

Think of the pyramid- it represents the Dimensions we live in and perceive (or don't perceive) directly. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 etc... until at the top is where we REALLY flow down to where we are now. This is happening. It's been happening since Earth popped into into existence- maybe LONG before that even when the UNIVERSE came into being.

The EYE on the capstone is US! It represents OUR knowledge of the Reality we are existing in and we've been leaving traces of it EVERYWHERE so we can remember who we are!

Masons, Illuminati, Eyes, Symbols etc..etc.. are designed and created by us for us. History is made by us. Mywriting is made by us. Your replies too. It's all the same...

Much Love,

Jay
xxx

[eternal_spirit]

The freemasons might be good at "opening" the minds of their followers, or whatever they should be called. Problem is how they keep it all secret, and use rituals to make sure that their followers use their "code of conduct".

I would even claim that Freemasonry is alot like Satanism. Seems to me like a merging or fusing of satanism and capitalism :)

I like the Wicca system alot better than the freemasons. Probably due to the fact that they like to work in nature and promote good health for out planet. The freemasons seems alot like their opposite. (also in terms of male and female, but sometimes there are males allowed into some Wiccan circles).
...........

Don't get too excited about Wicca some say it was a masonic creation. Christianity may have it's roots in paganism which is what Wicca is revived. It's all Sun,Moon, astrological, earth worship anyhow. Think you'll find much symbolic language is based on this.The universe.

[kblood]

...........

Don't get too excited about Wicca some say it was a masonic creation. Christianity may have it's roots in paganism which is what Wicca is revived. It's all Sun,Moon, astrological, earth worship anyhow. Think you'll find much symbolic language is based on this.The universe.

That is very likely. I had a girlfriend who was Wiccan. I think males arent allowed into the Wiccan "sisterhood", but I have been told that at some rituals, a male or two would attend anyway. Im guessing these would probably be Masonic, and probably looking for women to do some hot spells with. They are usually all naked, so guess it has its perks being Masonic ;)

At least it is possible to stop being Wiccan. Not sure if it is the same for the Masons, unless you are powerfull enough to say no... ;)

[cruise4]

edelweiss pirate... I've said it many times now on this forum. A broad based Meritocracy. Further details are generally deemed not worth talking about, it seems, so I won't.

At the moment we have mostly uneducated people doing stupid things, some people who are evil and know exactly what they are doing, and then there's us.

Until the final shakeup has run its course the details cannot be worked out except as some sort of imagination exercise.

But the problem we have now is one of represention. Of all the representaion possibilities I have seen this one is, in my opinion, the best.

[eternal_spirit]

The Grand Architect of the Universe? The sun? God? What is it? The intelligence responsible for all of creation? are we it? We're part of it.

[revolution 9]

Wicca was the creation of Gerald Gardner and is a mix of various Pagan beliefs and rituals. I always found it to be rather bland, uninspired, and a bit corny because of it. A lot of the rituals end up with what are basically blanks where you fill in the name you use for the "Lord" and "Lady," "God" and "Goddess," etc. Most Wiccans think their religion is ancient though.

As for Masonry, I ask the same question I've asked before: what are Masons doing to stop the coming police state? Are they out there trying to get rid of the Federal Reserve, put an end to acts like the Patriot Act, etc? I would think those sorts of things would be of prime importance.

[kblood]

As I see it, we ought to use our intelligence to make sure we dont use industrialisation and economic growth as excuses to ruin our planet.

I do like the idea of making a better way to become "aware" or reach the "oneness". I actually do like the idea of making some global religion, that takes the best from all religions, and makes it simpler. The 10 commandments of the bible are good I guess, problem is when people begin seeing death as the penalty for all of them.

[eternal_spirit]

I think they truly believe, or at least wan't us down below including low level masons, that they are advanced superior incarnates and it's their job ( right ) to be the Elite and be the boss.

If you're familiar with Blavatsky and Alice Bailey who channel the disincarnate hiearachy of the ascened masters, who are basically entities in spirit form, who steer and give orders to the Elite masons, this is the core of the New Age teachings and belief systems which was created and controlled by them.

This is the same as what Hinduism teaches with the caste system and karma mixed with Buddhism, that's why many including Crowley hung out with the Tibetan monks. The Egyptian mythology and practices are also about the sun God's reincarnating. So much symbology:confused: what's literal truth etc etc.

[eternal_spirit]

So what do we know of that is good in masonry; Charity anything else lol :confused:

[mada88]

Thats evil don't go there! don't do that, don't be that, don't go near them! EVILLLLL!!!! ! ! ! ! !!! the question though is why? what makes something/one evil? fuck this bullshit of good vs evil. Good can be bad and evil can be good. Answers on a postcard.

[kblood]

It isnt about masonry being evil, it is about their rituals being wrong. I know what their rituals are about, and they are focused on current religions.

There might be some good in masonry, but if there is, then share what is good about them. Easier to say why Freemasonry is to be used if we know what would be good from it. I would not mind having a high level freemason making a new kind of religious book with basic guidelines for having a good life, if I could just be sure that he wasnt hellbent on ruling the world and that the book proofs to be about living a good life.

As I see it, freemasonry seems about sharing power amongst each other. I dont really see what else there is too it. So yes, can anyone please try to show us what good have come from freemasonry? Otherwise I dont think the fact that they are freemasons would help much. Their experiences should be usefull though in some way. Problem is that part of being masonic, is not sharing their secrets :rolleyes:

[eternal_spirit]

There might be some good in masonry, but if there is, then share what is good about them. Easier to say why Freemasonry is to be used if we know what would be good from it. I would not mind having a high level freemason making a new kind of religious book with basic guidelines for having a good life, if I could just be sure that he wasnt hellbent on ruling the world and that the book proofs to be about living a good life.

Problem is that part of being masonic, is not sharing their secrets :rolleyes:
................

Yes imagine if they could show us how to apply what they know for the good of all.
One reason it's so secretive is many of Todays Lodges were formed back in times of civil war and trust wasn't high on the agenda, and masons have been persecuted by other groups, non masons etc. And they do quarel with each other same as any religion has more than one set of beliefs I guess( or fight about who's the boss etc) That's the official line anyhow. :rolleyes:

[mada88]

right and wrong apples and pears. The two wings on the same bird.

[mr_moon]

It's just called GREED. That's it.

[dondaz]

As for Masonry, I ask the same question I've asked before: what are Masons doing to stop the coming police state? Are they out there trying to get rid of the Federal Reserve, put an end to acts like the Patriot Act, etc? I would think those sorts of things would be of prime importance.

The masons are the police state, the masons are big brother, the masons are political control.

Freemasonry is the biggest, false, corrupt, lying, cheating, coniving, evil system of control this world has ever seen.

It needs bringing to an end. Right now!

[kblood]

If only I was better at expressing myself and my experiences in words, I guess I could try to make books about it all. Problem is that it all comes down to fundemental beliefs that are in most religions anyway. These fundemental beliefs are what I think could be put into one book that could be read by everyone. Less text, several major languages, and bam! you got a global religion :) That is how the bible was made anyway. They took all the best and most important of all the old major religions in that part of the world, and mixed it up into one. That it had some agenda to make people "pay" for their sins, is a very sad side effect.

Not easy to find the most understandable and fundemental of every religion though.

[quetzalcoatl]

I often wonder if Secret Societies have the greater good of the majority @ heart. Then I snap out of it & remember they have only their fat bank accounts @ heart. & will go to monstrous lengths to feed their greed.

Guess it was indeed a 'necessary evil' since Masons actually exist. Grand design & all that. But it could've worked other ways.. Maybe Medieval castles wouldn't have been soo militarised without Knights of the Temple/Masonry & the Hashshashin Warriors. Yet, we must keep in mind the path that the ancient Builders-Guild has taken through-out history. Swindling the first 'Free-Masons' that had no Masonry skills, yet desired to belong to an elitist fraternity, with 'Ancient Babylonian secrets', the power/secrets of symbolism & sacred architecture. Then it really became truly sinister when successfully infiltrated by the very Luciferian Bavarian Illuminati/Jesuits. Thitherto, they were probably compartively innocent.


Yet that's what we're dealing with now, & they've erected their 'castles' around the World. It's definitely a deceitful shade of grey. Masquerading the majority lower ranking Masons with 'good community works'. Lies & deceit really goes against me grain, makes me mad as injured snake! :mad: Luckily the seeds of the Illuminatis downfall are already planted (they can't fight it, they know it).

Let's face it; everything Masons do has a purpose. Initiations & rituals/ceremonies will have multiple purposes. One would most likely be a hardening up process of some sort. Programming the few, to in-turn, program the many. I would imagine they'll go to great lengths in de-sensitising them mentally/physically for easier manipulation/control. Fortifying their lying capability, for detaching their emotions from daily lies & deceits.. etc. Fine-tuning their poker faces for the illusion of a cool/calm & collected cat under public scrutiny. Suppose anything that builds up pain tolerance & psychological dexterity, would be beneficial. Another IS recruitment clubs, sifting through the unpredictable, hard to blackmail Masons (that are held no higher than the 3rd° Master-Mason). A process to wean out the moral Masons in-order to find the easily possess-able, 'line-toeing' future Illumes.

I totally reckon that shit like anti-biotics, anti-depressants & most of the pain killer family, are strictly for the 'Goyim' consumers. Also people cope with stress/pain/shock all differently depending on brain chemistry/mood & past conditioning. Check this, my Japanese friend told me some people in Japan 'swear-by' drinking their own morning urine. Apparently you gain good anti-bodies. I'll take their word on it.. Suppose a good rule of thumb would be; to quote 18th century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, whom was trained by a Jesuit Priest (& probably a Mason):- "that which does not kill us, makes us stronger".

I dig Wendy's burgers! ;)

[eternal_spirit]

Good post quazl ^^^ I think freemasonry was originaly to do with building and tied to other craftsmen. But other Lodges were set up by some other evil secret societies and ancient mystery schools ( occult type) from ancient Greece, Babylon etc. Added with religous teachings esoteric exoteric by the ruling Elite of the time and they hijacked the Freemasons and turned it into various forms of secret societies.


So maybe it started out with good intentions and there are still some good people with that intention involved today. But the point is they control both sides, good and bad, in order to have control over as much as possible.

[eternal_spirit]

I was watching this TV show t'other day about this pale middle class white guy who goes out to live with Brazilian Indians.

We got an incredible peek at the Brazilian Indians' rituals and different types of initiations. The initiations were often painful, particularly the ritual whipping of men and even the young children. The white guy was quite shocked to see children as young as 4 whipped somewhat. The reasoning behind this was this it made them fearless, discouraged laziness and made them more tolerant to pain.

Another initiation involved being pricked then having the poison from the poison arrow tree frog put into the wound. Obviously a highly uncomfortable experience, but arguable one which would strengthen the initiate and lead them to be imune from the effects of a poison which they handle frequently.

I say parallels with what the masons do in their initiations and it occurred that perhaps, masonry is a natural human creation, a necessary survival tool.

.
...........

The whipping rituals just proves how unenlightened, cruel these so called wise peoples are :rolleyes: Could this be a ritual to cause dissasosiation an early from of how to create multiples for mind control and total obedience through fear.( we would call it child abuse here)
I heard about some TV programme ( competitive games show)were English folk went to Africa and places to take part in tribal rituals were they would beat each other about the head with big sticks ( they're probably the tribes that circumcise I imagine)

The poison could of been introduced into the children's system to make them immune in a human way, by drinking or mixing with food.

Why Was The Mason
Who Revealed These
Masonic Secrets
Murdered ?







Masonic initiation heres some below

"I do most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear...
To have my throat cut across...
My tongue torn out by the roots...
And my body buried in the rough sands of the sea at low water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows in twenty-four hours......should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn oath or obligation as an Entered Apprentice Mason. So help me God."
The above is an excerpt of the oath sworn by Masons to never reveal any of the Masonic secrets. Perhaps this is why our source for the information in this book was murdered after his notes were published.

Excerpted from CEREMONIES OF THE ADMISSION AND INITIATION OF A CANDIDATE IN THE FIRST DEGREE OF FREEMASONRY.
The Junior Deacon then says, "As this is a torture to your flesh, so
may it ever be to your mind and conscience, if ever you should attempt to reveal the secrets of Masonry unlawfully."
The candidate is then conducted to the centre of the Lodge, where he and the Senior Deacon kneel, and the Deacon says the following prayer...






This 223 page eBook also reveals the stations and duties of the all the degrees conferred in the Royal Arch Chapter and Grand Encampment of Knights Templars...
Knights of the Holy Sepulcher
Knights Templar
Princes of Jerusalem
Knights of the Red Cross
Knights of the Christian Mark
Knights of the Holy Sepulcher.And also The Eleven Ineffable Degrees conferred in the Lodge of Perfection—and the still higher degrees of...
Prince of Jerusalem
Knights of the East and West
Venerable Grand Masters of Symbolic Lodges
Knights and Adepts of the Eagle or Sun
Princes of the Royal Secret
Sovereign Inspector GeneralStop wondering and start getting answers! Damn I'll have to find the link for this book!

[edelweiss pirate]

This is a great thread because almost everyone involved is asking questions.

None of us have the answers, noone.

We just have our piece of the puzzle, I guess if we can manage to cooperate to an extent that we can all fit our pieces together we will get the bigger picture.

I would like to answer all the points in turn but there's little to respond to as we all seem to share the same ideas.

I will say to Eternal Spirit however that a masonic initiation is more than a sworn oath.

The oath comes after the 'real' initiation which would have taken place before, the oath merely cements the 'mind lock'.

The initiation is a changing of perception and brain chemistry. Of course it's mind control but it often takes a long long time, years in fact.. even before you go to a lodge you have been involved with masons without even knowing it.

Eternal Spirit you say whipping is 'unenlightened', Dude these people live in the fucking jungle! They live with WILD ANIMALS an' ting.... get it?

You judge them by your culture. That's bang wrong.

Pragamatism is the key my friend.


Cruise. I'd be interested to hear your ideas. It's people like us who have the facts and the freedom to propose a vision of the future....

[quetzalcoatl]

We all compliment each-other. This is how we know ourselves, & find some sort of truth, by the reaction of others. That's why most of us are here.. in search of truth, which is the only thing that matters. Truth is all powerful. I do really enjoy reading everyone's views, & generally if I agree on things, I may-not reply. Also it takes me a while to articulate my thoughts, & time factor goes with-oot sayin'.

Of-course no-one can claim ultimate all-knowing truth. We just gotta keep bouncing ideas around, constantly asking questions etc.. I would really hope that would be the main prerogative of the DI forum. I suspect we all need to need to 'come back down to Earth', some-what. & remember exactly the purpose of these experiences, it use to be all about the truth.

Any-way, all-in-all this forum is quite informative, & a very entertaining read in places. I do enjoy.

Edelweiss Pirate Exactly what we need man, more co-operation. That's also my current perception of past events Eternal_Spirit. I would like to hear what you guys think about the Knights-Templar, in regards to San-Grail, Merovingian Bloodline, are they one & the same?


Keep up the good work Gentlemen.

[kashmirz]

they would love you to think they are, but i dont advise it

[quetzalcoatl]

That's a little too vague for me Kashmirz. Pass.

[quetzalcoatl]

They aren't one & the same perhaps kashmirz? Feel free to elaborate.

[quetzalcoatl]

they would love you to think they are, but i dont advise it.

I would more readily believe that they ARE one & the same. However, there's huge controversy in the correct genealogy. & the Vatican will & probably has gone to great lengths to bribe/suppress any-thing that threatens to expose the truth.