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worlds beyond
16-09-2009, 11:02 AM
SEPTEMBER 15, 2009, 10:30 A.M. ET

Obama Is Pushing Israel Toward War

President Obama can't outsource matters of war and peace to another state.

By BRET STEPHENS


Events are fast pushing Israel toward a pre-emptive military strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, probably by next spring. That strike could well fail. Or it could succeed at the price of oil at $300 a barrel, a Middle East war, and American servicemen caught in between. So why is the Obama administration doing everything it can to speed the war process along?

At July's G-8 summit in Italy, Iran was given a September deadline to start negotiations over its nuclear programs. Last week, Iran gave its answer: No.

Instead, what Tehran offered was a five-page document that was the diplomatic equivalent of a giant kiss-off. It begins by lamenting the "ungodly ways of thinking prevailing in global relations" and proceeds to offer comprehensive talks on a variety of subjects: democracy, human rights, disarmament, terrorism, "respect for the rights of nations," and other areas where Iran is a paragon. Conspicuously absent from the document is any mention of Iran's nuclear program, now at the so-called breakout point, which both Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his boss Ali Khamenei insist is not up for discussion.

What's an American president to do in the face of this nonstarter of a document? What else, but pretend it isn't a nonstarter. Talks begin Oct. 1.

All this only helps persuade Israel's skittish leadership that when President Obama calls a nuclear-armed Iran "unacceptable," he means it approximately in the same way a parent does when fecklessly reprimanding his misbehaving teenager. That impression is strengthened by Mr. Obama's decision to drop Iran from the agenda when he chairs a meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Sept. 24; by Defense Secretary Robert Gates publicly opposing military strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities; and by Russia's announcement that it will not support any further sanctions on Iran.

In sum, the conclusion among Israelis is that the Obama administration won't lift a finger to stop Iran, much less will the "international community." So Israel has pursued a different strategy, in effect seeking to goad the U.S. into stopping, or at least delaying, an Israeli attack by imposing stiff sanctions and perhaps even launching military strikes of its own.

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Associated Press

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Thus, unlike Israel's air strike against Iraq's reactor in 1981 or Syria's in 2007, both of which were planned in the utmost secrecy, the Israelis have gone out of their way to advertise their fears, purposes and capabilities. They have sent warships through the Suez Canal in broad daylight and conducted widely publicized air-combat exercises at long range. They have also been unusually forthcoming in their briefings with reporters, expressing confidence at every turn that Israel can get the job done.

The problem, however, is that the administration isn't taking the bait, and one has to wonder why. Perhaps it thinks its diplomacy will work, or that it has the luxury of time, or that it can talk the Israelis out of attacking. Alternatively, it might actually want Israel to attack without inviting the perception that it has colluded with it. Or maybe it isn't really paying attention.

But Israel is paying attention. And the longer the U.S. delays playing hardball with Iran, the sooner Israel is likely to strike. A report published today by the Bipartisan Policy Center, and signed by Democrat Chuck Robb, Republican Dan Coats, and retired Gen. Charles Ward, notes that by next year Iran will "be able to produce a weapon's worth of highly enriched uranium . . . in less than two months." No less critical in determining Israel's timetable is the anticipated delivery to Iran of Russian S-300 anti-aircraft batteries: Israel will almost certainly strike before those deliveries are made, no matter whether an Iranian bomb is two months or two years away.

Such a strike may well be in Israel's best interests, though that depends entirely on whether the strike succeeds. It is certainly in America's supreme interest that Iran not acquire a genuine nuclear capability, whether of the actual or break-out variety. That goes also for the Middle East generally, which doesn't need the nuclear arms race an Iranian capability would inevitably provoke.

Then again, it is not in the U.S. interest that Israel be the instrument of Iran's disarmament. For starters, its ability to do so is iffy: Israeli strategists are quietly putting it about that even a successful attack may have to be repeated a few years down the road as Iran reconstitutes its capacity. For another thing, Iran could respond to such a strike not only against Israel itself, but also U.S targets in Iraq and the Persian Gulf.

But most importantly, it is an abdication of a superpower's responsibility to outsource matters of war and peace to another state, however closely allied. President Obama has now ceded the driver's seat on Iran policy to Prime Minister Netanyahu. He would do better to take the wheel again, keeping in mind that Iran is beyond the reach of his eloquence, and keeping in mind, too, that very useful Roman adage, Si vis pacem, para bellum. "

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203917304574410672271269390.html

redskywalker
16-09-2009, 11:20 AM
do is ra el need pushed?
So they feel as it's in the open that means its alright then?
has Iran ever invaded anyone? Since biblical times?
war is stupid!
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A-EOwci_Yc&feature=PlayList&p=C4CDD5A2372D0337&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

worlds beyond
16-09-2009, 11:50 AM
this is how Israel reporting situation as at today.... apart from other stories such as calling the UN report on their war crimes against Palestinians "nauseating" :mad: ........


"Sep 16, 2009 9:11 | Updated Sep 16, 2009 9:36
Sarkozy: Iran working on nukes today
By JPOST.COM STAFF


After Paris warned that new sanctions against Teheran remained an option despite the likelihood of negotiations with Iran, French President Nicolas Sarkozy maintained that the Islamic republic was still working on a nuclear weapons program.


French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
Photo: AP

SLIDESHOW: Israel & Region | World "It is a certainty to all of our secret services. Iran is working today on a nuclear [weapons] program," Sarkozy told lawmakers from his UMP party on Tuesday, according to Press TV.

"We cannot let Iran acquire nuclear" weapons because it would also be a threat to Israel, he added.

French Foreign Ministry spokesman Bernard Valero had warned that Iran must make "concrete gestures" at the long-awaited discussions. He said the sanctions option remained on the table in case Teheran makes "an error of choice."

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"It is up to Iran to restore international confidence ... and show it is ready to seriously discuss its sensitive activities," Valero said at a press briefing.

Earlier, Sarkozy and US President Barack Obama discussed ways to bring Iran "into compliance" with UN resolutions on its nuclear program, Agence France Presse quoted the White House as saying.



"The two leaders discussed the status of diplomatic efforts to bring Iran into compliance with its international obligations on its nuclear program," a statement said after Obama and Sarkozy spoke over the telephone.

Also Tuesday, EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said that talks on Iran's nuclear program would likely be held in Turkey, and full US participation may lead to progress in the negotiations.

Casting aside conditions the Bush administration had set for talks, President Barack Obama's White House is pressing for progress after years of little movement on Iran's nuclear program.

"The Americans will be present in a formalized manner. This is new," Solana said, referring to the meeting scheduled for Oct. 1. "I think that has to be evaluated positively by the Iranians."

Solana said the meeting could help resolve the standoff over the Islamic Republic's refusal to freeze uranium enrichment and heed other UN Security Council demands.

The talks will be the first since a 2008 session in Geneva foundered over Iran's refusal to discuss enrichment.

The US has announced that Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs William Burns - who was at the Geneva talks as an observer - would again represent the US But this time, EU officials said, Burns will be a full participant in the upcoming meeting, which will also include representatives of Britain, France, Russia, China and Germany.

In Washington, US Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the American delegate to the talks would insist on discussing Iran's nuclear program.

"I think it is important to underscore that we have made clear to the Iranians that any talks we participate in must address the nuclear issue head on," Clinton told reporters at the US State Department. "It cannot be ignored. Iran says it has a number of issues that it wishes to discuss with us but what we are concerned about is discussing with them the questions surrounding their nuclear program and ambitions."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804582184&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull




oh.. and this is also interesting to note:


"Obama, Sarkozy discuss G20, Iran over telephone


www.chinaview.cn 2009-09-16 13:58:25 Print

WASHINGTON, Sept. 15 (Xinhua) -- The U.S. and French presidents discussed several issues including economic recovery, Iran and the Middle East over the telephone on Tuesday.

A White House statement described the telephone conversation between Barack Obama and Nicolas Sarkozy as productive.

The discussion was "on our shared strategic agenda, underscoring broad agreement on key issues," the White House statement added.

A statement from the French president's office said that the 30-minute Sarkozy-Obama discussion focused on laying the groundwork for the upcoming Group of 20 summit in the U.S. city of Pittsburgh.

The two presidents talked about ways to reform international financial institutions so as to make them more inclusive and effective.

The two leaders agreed to work closely together to allow new decisions ensuring lasting and balanced growth to emerge in Pittsburgh.

However, according to a statement from Sarkozy's office, both leaders disagreed on a bonus cap for the financial sector.

Obama was opposed to capping bankers' bonuses whereas Sarkozy, along with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, supported a tight bonus regulation.

During their phone conversation, the U.S. and French presidents also touched upon diplomatic efforts aimed at making Iran comply with its international obligations regarding its nuclear program, according to the White House statement.

Representatives from the United States and France and four other major players - Britain, Germany, Russia and China - are expected to meet Iranian officials on Oct. 1 in Turkey.

The Obama administration expects the Turkey talks to focus on Iran's nuclear issue so as to form a "united front" with the other powers to force Tehran to abandon its nuclear program. Iran was accused by the United States of developing nuclear weapons.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that Iran's nuclear issue "cannot be ignored" during the upcoming talks between the six major powers and Iran.

But Tehran insists that they would talk only about "international cooperation and resolving global economic and security problems."

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Sunday that processing peaceful nuclear technology was Iran's "legal and definitive right, and it will not hold discussions about its undeniable rights."

Obama and Sarkozy also agreed to continue working with key players in the Mideast region to help jumpstart Israeli-Arab peace negotiations, the White House statement added. "


Editor: Xiong Tong


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-09/16/content_12062132.htm

decim
16-09-2009, 12:39 PM
Israel attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty belonging to its closest ally, the USA. Thirty-four American servicemen were killed in the two-hour assault by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats. Israel claimed that the whole affair had been a tragic accident based on mistaken identification of the ship. The American government accepted the explanation.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311&ei=9s2wSvrJOYOm-Ab1rYHfDg&q=uss+liberty&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

redskywalker
16-09-2009, 12:46 PM
Israel attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty belonging to its closest ally, the USA. Thirty-four American servicemen were killed in the two-hour assault by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats. Israel claimed that the whole affair had been a tragic accident based on mistaken identification of the ship. The American government accepted the explanation.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311&ei=9s2wSvrJOYOm-Ab1rYHfDg&q=uss+liberty&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

More americans especially need to see that film. The complete control over what we see, believe and think must be stopped. This one truth about this one act would/should give cause for all americans to pull the funding of is ra el from the zionists.

djhooker
16-09-2009, 12:47 PM
attacking iran will be the straw that breaks the camels back for america.

hadabusa
16-09-2009, 02:02 PM
by what we know from teh economic hitmen, thats the logical next step.

but...

neither usa or isra el will attack iran, geta grip, ask yourself whos irans big ally(russia).


i like obama pushing THEM, tough, its a good signal.
lol,im starting to like obama at times, this is him mocking jews, nothing else.

king triad
16-09-2009, 02:19 PM
obama doesn't have a clue about war ..he's a community activist more suited to arranging fundraisers and car washes....

anthony65
16-09-2009, 02:36 PM
obama doesn't have a clue about war ..he's a community activist more suited to arranging fundraisers and car washes....

car wash or war cash? :eek:

hadabusa
16-09-2009, 02:37 PM
obama doesn't have a clue about war ..he's a community activist more suited to arranging fundraisers and car washes....
he basically saying the can go fthemselves.
i like that
:cool:

anthony65
16-09-2009, 02:41 PM
If Israel were to strike the reactor.

What would there be to stop Iran buying nukes?

duckandcover
16-09-2009, 02:41 PM
attacking iran will be the straw that breaks the camels back for america.

exactly why Obama wants Isreal to do the dirty work. Iran should remain as pacifistic and non agressive as possible, make it harder for them to spin bad propaganda.

bendoon
16-09-2009, 02:47 PM
"Obama Pushing Israel Toward War" Wall St.Journal

Correction; Jews want to attack Iran and blame it on Obama, it was them evil 'mericans that made us do it.

worlds beyond
16-09-2009, 10:57 PM
"Sep 16, 2009 15:28 | Updated Sep 16, 2009 22:48


Sneh: We may have to attack Iran by Dec.
By JPOST.COM STAFF


Israel will be compelled to attack Iran's nuclear facilities if Western powers do not impose serious sanctions against Teheran by the end of 2009, former deputy defense minister Ephraim Sneh said on Wednesday.


Iran calls for boycott of military strikes on counties with nuclear facilities

"We cannot live under the shadow of an Iran with nuclear weapons," he was quoted as telling Reuters, in an interview on a visit to the UK. "By the end of the year, if there is no agreement on crippling sanctions aimed at this regime, we will have no choice."

Sneh reportedly stressed that a military strike would be "the very, very last resort. But ironically it is our best friends and allies who are pushing us into a corner where we would have no option but to do it.
"I wonder if they will [put a tougher sanctions regime in place] quickly enough," Sneh said. "If not, we are compelled to take action."

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Sneh, who holds no position in the government and was speaking in a personal capacity, told Reuters it was not clear the US and EU had the gumption to take such steps, which should include tougher banking and oil curbs, by year's end.

He added that the need for the involvement of Russia and China "is a myth," as strict sanctions imposed by the West would be tough enough to work.


"It is bloodless, and it even stops short of a naval blockade," he said.

Sneh reportedly explained that Jerusalem could not accept a nuclear-armed Iran because government processes would be "substantially distorted," as the cabinet's decision-making would be hostage to the fear of Teheran's nuclear retaliation.

If the Islamic republic completed its military nuclear program, immigration to Israel would stop, young men and women would emigrate to pursue their future in places seen as more secure and investment in Israel would be reduced, he reportedly said.

The former deputy minister also warned that Iran would pressure moderate Arab states to toughen their positions vis-a-vis Israel, and that a nuclear Iran would prompt Saudi Arabia and Egypt to obtain nuclear weapons themselves, bringing about a Middle East "fully loaded with nuclear weapons."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1251804588696

keystone
16-09-2009, 11:01 PM
What would there be to stop Iran buying nukes?What makes you think they haven't already - possibly?

Cheers