Shaped Charges and the WTC Collapses

[tusme]

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/thermiteonwtccolumns.jpg
Look at the angle cut on the core box beam behind the firefighter. Note the melted slag.

Article here (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wtc_charges.html)

[deafbred]

wow, its so obvious

[marpat]

Dont you think that there might be the possibility thar the angled cut was made by the rescuers in an effort to get as much of the building out of the way as possible? in order to remove pieces of framework they would have to cut through them. I think the only obvious thing is how people are quick to jump to a shallow conculsion without looking at the possibility of other causes.

Personally I think the OP is wrong

[tusme]

Dont you think that there might be the possibility thar the angled cut was made by the rescuers in an effort to get as much of the building out of the way as possible? in order to remove pieces of framework they would have to cut through them. I think the only obvious thing is how people are quick to jump to a shallow conculsion without looking at the possibility of other causes.

Personally I think the OP is wrong
Hmm, with your logic, and the massive amount of shaped-cut core box beams strewn over the ground zero area, those Twin Towers must have come down faster than the speed of light...!! :(

And I suppose, the smoke still billowing from the underground, is also because of the rescuers, is it...!? :confused:

[merlincove]

Dont you think that there might be the possibility thar the angled cut was made by the rescuers in an effort to get as much of the building out of the way as possible? in order to remove pieces of framework they would have to cut through them. I think the only obvious thing is how people are quick to jump to a shallow conculsion without looking at the possibility of other causes.

Personally I think the OP is wrong

Why would they need to cut that beam, it is higher up than the working level so would not have been in the way, the only reason they would have cut it is to clear it incase it was a dnager.

Gas and smoke and fumes in the area would have also ment the guys would want to keep naked flames out of the equation as much as possable?

[joe911]

Note the yellow smoke and residue left behind by the ironworker.

Thermite in general makes an ugly hole with molten metal drips/blobs. It doesn't make clean cuts. It's a powder that undergoes a violent chemical reaction as seen in the video below.

http://www.guzer.com/videos/thermite_car.php

Note how much thermite is used. The pot is about a liter, but how much thermite is that?

Stoichiometric thermite requires 2 moles of Al per 1 mole of Fe2O3

2Al + Fe2O3 = Al2O3 + 2Fe


2 moles of Al weigh 54 g
1 mole of Fe2O3 weighs 160 g

density of Al=2.64 g/cc
density of Fe2O3=5.24 g/cc


54 grams of Al is equivalent to 20.5 cc of Al.
160g of Fe2O3 is equivalent to 30.5 cc of Fe2O3

Therefore, 51 cc of fully dense powder of 20.5 cc Al and 30.5 cc Fe2O3 weighs (54+160) g = 214 g.

A volume of 1000 cc would weigh (1000/51)*214 = 4.2 kg

For a powder packing density of 50%, the powder would weigh:

0.5*4.2 kg = 2.1 kg = 4.8 lb

That much just to burn a small hole in a small car engine. I bet it's even an aluminum block but lets say it isn't. How much do you think it would take to burn a massive core column? Then add enough to burn for 6 weeks! You see where we're going. You'd need tons.

Source (http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm)

[joe911]

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/04/real-world-tests-cut-through-steel.html

[marpat]

Why would they need to cut that beam, it is higher up than the working level so would not have been in the way, the only reason they would have cut it is to clear it incase it was a dnager.

Gas and smoke and fumes in the area would have also ment the guys would want to keep naked flames out of the equation as much as possable?

Well I would think they could use a crane to support any beam while its base was cut to prevent it falling. Not being an expert in demolitions I dont really know. Perhaps the gas pipes in the area were sealed off by then.

Why would they cut it? to remove the debris. In time it would all need removing anyway.

The problem with pics is that they represent a small window of time. You dont know what has been going on in that area before and after so unless there is amplifying evidence to support conclusions then all that is possible is to speculate on possibilities.

[marpat]

Hmm, with your logic, and the massive amount of shaped-cut core box beams strewn over the ground zero area, those Twin Towers must have come down faster than the speed of light...!! :(

And I suppose, the smoke still billowing from the underground, is also because of the rescuers, is it...!? :confused:

Smoke could be many things. It could be from vehicle exhausts if they are using cranes. It might even be just dust clouds.

Dont quite get your point on the speed of collapse. Notice that not all of the beams in that pic have angled cuts.

[tusme]

Smoke could be many things. It could be from vehicle exhausts if they are using cranes. It might even be just dust clouds.

Dont quite get your point on the speed of collapse. Notice that not all of the beams in that pic have angled cuts.
Cranes below the debris...!? :confused: :D

Tbh, I'm not surprised you don't get my point...!! Co's your logic is just absurd..!!

Otherwise, the fact "not all beams of the beams in that pic have angle cuts", makes no difference at all, to the "big picture", that 911 was without any doubt, an INSIDE JOB...!!

[aejor_mn]

That beam was cut by a demolition charge that is wrapped around the beam on a wire at that angle so the building pushes into itself for better implosion.

There would be no need for rescuers to cut the beam at that angle which would also be precarious to fall on top of them. The beam would have been cut straight across to also provide self support while harnessed, with an acetylene torch that uses oxygen and acetylene gas.

The acetylene torch also blows as it cuts so their would not be such a quantity of melted slag as displayed but rather a cleaner cut.

[marpat]

Cranes below the debris...!? :confused: :D

Tbh, I'm not surprised you don't get my point...!! Co's your logic is just absurd..!!

Otherwise, the fact "not all beams of the beams in that pic have angle cuts", makes no difference at all, to the "big picture", that 911 was without any doubt, an INSIDE JOB...!!

Trust you to be so open minded and considering everything. The picture is not a panoramic so it does not give a good chance of seeing what the smoke comes from.

[marpat]

That beam was cut by a demolition charge that is wrapped around the beam on a wire at that angle so the building pushes into itself for better implosion.

There would be no need for rescuers to cut the beam at that angle which would also be precarious to fall on top of them. The beam would have been cut straight across to also provide self support while harnessed, with an acetylene torch that uses oxygen and acetylene gas.

The acetylene torch also blows as it cuts so their would not be such a quantity of melted slag as displayed but rather a cleaner cut.

Oh well, as you are an expert in demolitions and explosives I guess I will have to yield to your expertise.

[tusme]

Trust you to be so open minded and considering everything. The picture is not a panoramic so it does not give a good chance of seeing what the smoke comes from.
"Panoramic"...!? :confused:

In the background, the smoke is perpendicular, and no doubt coming from within the ground...hmm, it just gets more and more cynical with you, Marpat...!? :o

[marpat]

"Panoramic"...!? :confused:

In the background, the smoke is perpendicular, and no doubt coming from within the ground...hmm, it just gets more and more cynical with you, Marpat...!? :o

Well if you say so. I forgot you cant be wrong

[tusme]

Well if you say so. I forgot you cant be wrong
Well, it's not about me being "right or wrong"...you stated, "personally I think the OP is wrong", in which case, I offered you the opportunity to prove that it is...

"Mighty good job" you've done, haven't ya...!? :cool:

Personally, I think your continued ignorance of the Truth (re, 911), besides wrong, is also quite disrespectful towards those innocent 911 victims (and their families)...!! :(

[secondsun]

Dont you think that there might be the possibility thar the angled cut was made by the rescuers in an effort to get as much of the building out of the way as possible? in order to remove pieces of framework they would have to cut through them. I think the only obvious thing is how people are quick to jump to a shallow conculsion without looking at the possibility of other causes.

Personally I think the OP is wrong


...why not ask yourself a question... if you had tonnes of steel beams to cut through... would you get the job done quicker if you cut at 45 degrees of 90?

[triforcharity]

The reason those beams were cut like them was to allow them to fall away from the workers. They wanted to make them fall a certain way, so they cut them at an angle to make them fall away.

The "smoke" in the backrgound?? yeah, steam, not smoke.

[follz20]

...why not ask yourself a question... if you had tonnes of steel beams to cut through... would you get the job done quicker if you cut at 45 degrees of 90?

This.

Simple common sense.

(Also, a torch 'cut' would result in a 'clean' cut: you wouldn't produce molten steel)

[triforcharity]

No, a torch cut on 3/4" steel will not leave a crisp clean cut. Ever. How do you propose that a torch works?? It just seperates the two pieces?? It MELTS away a small portion making it become 2 pieces.

Wow, some people should really seek to understand something before you try to speak about it intelligently.

[christophera]

here (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wtc_charges.html)

The serrations on the edges are the sign of a hand held flame cutting tool. The oxygen lance or variations are the methods by which cuts are made.

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/images/pagemaster/slag_p1_1.jpg

None of this discounts the fact that thermite was used in the basement to cut columns at the base and left tons of molten steel and unburned thermite residue that kept igniting keeping the pit hot. This is about the OP's image and what it shows. (http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/4302/image51un.jpg)

[christophera]

damm techno sabotage destroyed my post!

[christophera]

Look at the angle cut on the core box beam behind the firefighter. Note the melted slag.[/CENTER]

Article here (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wtc_charges.html)

This board has more techno sabotage than any other I've ever seen, except perhaps breakfornews.com

I have a page about that salvage cut and exactly how it is done.

http://algoxy.com/psych/whatis9-11disinfo-rense.html

None of this should detract from the fact that there were many tons of thermite in the basement to cut the bases of the columns leaving many tons of molten mental and unburned thermite mixed into the demo debris that kept igniting keeping temperatures high.

An oxygen lance leaves exactly that kind of serration and the angle facilitates the excavators grapple getting a grip sooner on the piece traveling from vertical to horizontal with the uncut tabs acting as a hinge.

[triforcharity]

Hey Christophera,

If the columns were cut in the basement, why did the tower collapse from the top down??

[christophera]

Hey Christophera,

If the columns were cut in the basement, why did the tower collapse from the top down??

It was a very sophisticated demo with lots of delay dynamics with special work done in some areas to create differences between the 2 towers appearances when they went down. One thing few people consider is that WTC 1 was hit on the norht face destroying 61% of the shear wall there, but the tower top fell to the south. Utterly impossible.

There appears to be smoke seen coming from floors near the ground seconds before the major demo. That could be the thermite starting. Also, the supposed nano thermite found could have been planted just to be found later and create something that the movement would be mislead to think was somehow responsible for the entire event.

The burned cars could have been ignited by the same type residue particulate of thermite, nano or otherwise, carried up by the heat to drift over the cars.

A good example of delays is seen in this video.

Listen to the delays. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5860825099435530591&q=5860825099435530591&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

The video of the thermite coming out of WTC 2 on the east face is the one example of thermite being used above ground. It seems to have lent to the tipping action that WTC 2 took, which was the only real difference in the way they came down.

It appears that the core had a different delay system that took some seconds to initiate, making this image possible.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif

There were reports of long lines at elevators right after the buildings were leased. News reports said the insurance companies wanted to have the elevators serviced before the lease began. Nonsense, because the elevators were guaranteed for 50 years maintenence free.

[triforcharity]

Are you going to post any facts at ALL that any of what you just said is even plausable?? Come on, a delay?? Seriously??

If bombs went off in the basements, I would have heard them. I was there. No less than 150 yards from the base of both of those towers when they began falling.

No bombs heard. No bombs going off on any video tape that was shot that day.

[camreeno]

I can just hear skeptics going "Ummmm it was just a coincidence they were shaped that way". 9/11 it-wasn't-an-inside-job-at-all theorists....gotta love them.

[christophera]

Are you going to post any facts at ALL that any of what you just said is even plausable?? Come on, a delay?? Seriously??

If bombs went off in the basements, I would have heard them. I was there. No less than 150 yards from the base of both of those towers when they began falling.

No bombs heard. No bombs going off on any video tape that was shot that day.

Listen to the delayed detonations. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5860825099435530591&q=5860825099435530591&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

No, that is not air pressure. There is nothing to contain the compression needed to create the pressure seen in the velocity and debris.

Firefighters talk about exactly what is seen in the video.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

Explosions In The Basement.

http://www.chiefengineer.org/article.cfm?seqnum1=1029

Mike told his co-worker to call upstairs to their Assistant Chief Engineer and find out if everything was all right. His co-worker made the call and reported back to Mike that he was told that the Assistant Chief did not know what happened but that the whole building seemed to shake and there was a loud explosion. They had been told to stay where they were and "sit tight" until the Assistant Chief got back to them.

The two decided to ascend the stairs to the C level, to a small machine shop where Vito Deleo and David Williams were supposed to be working. When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone.

"There was nothing there but rubble" Mike said. "We're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press - gone!" The two began yelling for their co-workers, but there was no answer. They saw a perfect line of smoke streaming through the air. "You could stand here," he said, "and two inches over you couldn't breathe. We couldn't see through the smoke so we started screaming." But there was still no answer.

The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone. ‘There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you can't see anything’ he said


Then there is the video testimony of Phillip Morelli.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Firefighters heard bombs, which I'm sure were distractions from the major demo, and their testimony was not heard by the 9-11 commission.

http://911lies.org/fire_fighters_911_wtc_tapes.html

[clint_giles]

Dont you think that there might be the possibility thar the angled cut was made by the rescuers in an effort to get as much of the building out of the way as possible? in order to remove pieces of framework they would have to cut through them. I think the only obvious thing is how people are quick to jump to a shallow conculsion without looking at the possibility of other causes.

Personally I think the OP is wrong


no

being in construction for a many number of years,this is not true
when cutting steal to remove for garbage or recycling they do not cut it on angles,they just cut away and the cuts are not as clean as the cut shown.

cutting on angles like the picture shown is a trade mark cut of demolition crews while they need to cut like this, so the steel when deninated with dynamite(thermite)will shift and fall into it own footprint..

classic demolition style cutting of steel.

[christophera]

no

being in construction for a many number of years,this is not true
when cutting steal to remove for garbage or recycling they do not cut it on angles,they just cut away and the cuts are not as clean as the cut shown.

cutting on angles like the picture shown is a trade mark cut of demolition crews while they need to cut like this, so the steel when deninated with dynamite(thermite)will shift and fall into it own footprint..

classic demolition style cutting of steel.

I've been in construction for 35 years, and a welder for all of those, and done a good deal of demolition, some big steel.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/thermiteonwtccolumns.jpg

The diagonal cut is a special safety cut that allows the column to go towards a horizontal position optimizing the grab of the excavator grapple while the base is still supported by the hinge point tabs that are not severed with the cut.

I'm actually near expert level with an excavator. Here, me and my boots go off the top edge of a 2:1 fill slope with a 10 ton excavator.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/belmonte_exdown2.jpg

With the steel box column, the 45 degree hinge on the left side keeps the piece tipping away from the hole while also going more horizontal so the hydraulic grapple can grasp it without it sliding out in a vertical orientation.

The snapped offed edge of the hinge tab is fully visible, uncut by the flame and fractured where it snapped. I can see that the column above was leaned out to the left which put the right side of the left box wall in tension, breaking it.

Of course a straight cut is used when steel is on the ground and cannot fall.

BTW, dynamite and thermite are completely different. TNT is a bonafied high explosive while thermite is a super fast incendiary, both controlled by the BATF.