Are freemasons also "freemen on the land" ?

[steevo]

Apologies if this question has already been asked, but can anyone tell me if FREEmasons are also "FREEmen on the land" ?

[tien an]

So, before everyone runs over here and stomps on you...


As far as I know; the answer is 'no'.

I can't say for certain that a Freemason can't become a Freeman on the Land, but I'm pretty certain that a Freeman on the Land wouldn't want to become a Freemason.

You might like to ask big al, Keystone et al if any of their mates are Freemen?
(I don't mean FOTL, I mean Freeman)

Ashley Mote [http://www.ashleymote.co.uk/?p=906] is a Freeman of the City of London...when I asked him (email) if he was a FOTL, he didn't know what 'it' was.

Hope that helps.

Peace,
tian an.

[steevo]

So, before everyone runs over here and stomps on you...


As far as I know; the answer is 'no'.

I can't say for certain that a Freemason can't become a Freeman on the Land, but I'm pretty certain that a Freeman on the Land wouldn't want to become a Freemason.

You might like to ask big al, Keystone et al if any of their mates are Freemen?
(I don't mean FOTL, I mean Freeman)

Ashley Mote [http://www.ashleymote.co.uk/?p=906] is a Freeman of the City of London...when I asked him (email) if he was a FOTL, he didn't know what 'it' was.

Hope that helps.

Peace,
tian an.

Thanks Tian an.
You would think though that Freemasons would be TOLD about this stuff, and would take advantage of it. Maybe they dont NEED to take advantage of it. Maybe they just need to do the handshake and THAT is sufficient. Freemasonary is a secret "society", and maybe because it is a SOCIETY (in the eyes of the law), they no longer are part of the same society that the rest of us live in, and therefore have there own rules/statutes, and they dont have to obey any rules/statutes that the rest of us believe we have to obey.

[yozhik]

Given freemasons have a heavy hand in the Temples and the foundation of the legal system and its structure, it would be highly improbable that the architects of the legal illusion would venture onto the lawful path and the ultimate exposure of the legal deception being played out by the secret society known as the law society.

[merlincove]

My girlfiends ex was a freemason.

he is always asking me about Freeman on the land philosophies, and i am sure that he never had a clue about it until he he met me.

He fails to fully grasp a lot of what fmotl is all about and sees it as a way of pulling a fast one, but until a few months ago he had no iea fmotl existed.

[analog]

Apologies if this question has already been asked, but can anyone tell me if FREEmasons are also "FREEmen on the land" ?

No.

[lightindarkness]

I am a freemason, and the masons that post here will all tell you that there is no relationship between the two. Although there is nothing preventing a freemason from going the FOTL route, if they choose to believe it.

Thanks Tian an.
You would think though that Freemasons would be TOLD about this stuff, and would take advantage of it. Maybe they dont NEED to take advantage of it. Maybe they just need to do the handshake and THAT is sufficient. Freemasonary is a secret "society", and maybe because it is a SOCIETY (in the eyes of the law), they no longer are part of the same society that the rest of us live in, and therefore have there own rules/statutes, and they dont have to obey any rules/statutes that the rest of us believe we have to obey.

I am not sure who would tell freemasons about this stuff? Of course freemasons are members of the same society everything else is. We have to obey the same rules everyone else does. The only difference is that a mason, in my experience, is MORE likely to get punished for breaking laws by fellow masons. I was stopped by a cop who was a mason once and received a ticket because I should have "known better" to follow the speed limit. He probably would have let a non-mason go with a warning. If I ever decided to do something illegal the last people I would want to be in the courtroom would be a judge or lawyers who were masons.

[keystone]

No.He He - no you can't tell him or no they are not? (Sorry - I'll get me coat!)

Oh - MY answer is no the two do NOT go hand in hand as a metter of course. I knew nothing about FOTL until it appeared here. I personally do not see FOTL as a "means of pulling a fast one" but I've yet to finally weigh the positives against the potential negatives. Before someone jumps on the bandwagon (oh yes someone will) freemasonry isn't a means of "pulling a fast one" either.

A have a relative who is a Freeman Of The City Of London which came about through his being involved with one of the (newer) Livery Companies. It doesn't really mean much.

The medieval term 'freeman' meant someone who was not the property of a feudal lord, but enjoyed privileges such as the right to earn money and own land. Town dwellers who were protected by the charter of their town or city were often free - hence the term 'freedom of the City'.

In that sense seeing as all of us now have the right to earn money and to own land we are all "Freemen" anyway.

Cheers

[keystone]

.....the secret society known as the law society.The Law Society is the solicitors regulatory body and also its union in effect. How is that a secret society or do you mean something differenet because you used lower case letters?

BTW I responded to your sarcy post about the City of London on that other thread to show you that I know exactly what I'm talking about - seeing as how you asked. You never responded.

Cheers

[keystone]

If I ever decided to do something illegal the last people I would want to be in the courtroom would be a judge or lawyers who were masons.You'll get rocks for that because they won't believe you whereas the truth is you are actually spot-on - 'cos you'd probably get harsher treatment as well as finding the episode to be the end of your masonic membership if found guilty.

Cheers

[lightindarkness]

You'll get rocks for that because they won't believe you whereas the truth is you are actually spot-on - 'cos you'd probably get harsher treatment as well as finding the episode to be the end of your masonic membership if found guilty.

Cheers

Oh I know, thats why I don't post in the DI forums anymore - no matter how truthful I am or how close to reality my statement may be, anti-mason conspiracy is more sexy than the truth :)

But you bring up a good point - not only would masons in a court room setting be more likely to punish a fellow mason, but they would also notify your lodge of what occurred and you'd be kicked out if found guilty of anything.

[tien an]

You'll get rocks for that because they won't believe you whereas the truth is you are actually spot-on - 'cos you'd probably get harsher treatment as well as finding the episode to be the end of your masonic membership if found guilty.

Cheers

No rocks from this quarter...I can quite believe/imagine that scenario, actually.

However, you must admit that you guys help a brother when you can...

I was on guard duty (Army) many years ago and a friend of mine was in jail for something (can't remember what it was). There's a pretty strict procedure for civilians to enter the camp (and especially buildings like the guardhouse, where arms are kept), and my friend's father turned up to visit him...a quick word with the guard commander and he got his visit.

"How did your dad swing that one then?" I asked later.
"He and the guard commander are both masons" he said, " didn't you notice their rings?"

tian an.

[tien an]

Oh I know, thats why I don't post in the DI forums anymore - no matter how truthful I am or how close to reality my statement may be, anti-mason conspiracy is more sexy than the truth :)

But you bring up a good point - not only would masons in a court room setting be more likely to punish a fellow mason, but they would also notify your lodge of what occurred and you'd be kicked out if found guilty of anything.

Really?
As strict as that?
Wouldn't the prosecutor and/or judge be acting 'ultra vires'?

tian an.

[lightindarkness]

Really?
As strict as that?
Wouldn't the prosecutor and/or judge be acting 'ultra vires'?

tian an.

Yes, as strict as that. Masons can be kicked out of their lodges for anything considered un-masonic conduct, which covers breaking about just any law you can imagine - and a whole bunch of stuff which isn't illegal but morally questionable. In the US I have seen people kicked out for being found guilty of just about anything above jaywalking and minor traffic violations. Although I still would not want to be in a courtroom over a traffic violation with a judge who was a mason, as although that may not get me kicked out of my lodge the judge would still be very likely to punish me more than he would a non-mason.

Masonic oaths put respect for society, country, and fellow mankind before assisting a brother mason. Anything that would violate that respect would prohibit a mason from assisting another. Anyone doing anything different would be subject to a un-masonic conduct charge.

[tien an]

Yes, as strict as that. Masons can be kicked out of their lodges for anything considered un-masonic conduct, which covers breaking about just any law you can imagine. In the US I have seen people kicked out for being found guilty of just about anything above jaywalking and minor traffic violations. .

Also, I would disagree that masons always help each other out. Masonic oaths put respect for society, country, and fellow mankind before assisting a brother mason. Anything that would violate that respect would prohibit a mason from assisting another. Anyone doing anything different would be subject to a unmasonic conduct charge.

I'll take your word for it.

"However, you must admit that you guys help a brother when you can..." (I didn't say 'always').

Your opinion on the 'ultra vires' (outside jurisdiction) question?

tian an.

PS Ah, I see you edited...never mind.

[lightindarkness]

Your opinion on the 'ultra vires' (outside jurisdiction) question?


On the outside jurisdiction question, no - masons are in the same jurisdiction as anyone else.

And I think my edits address your other point, but you were quite correct. I will assist a brother mason when I can, which means only if Im assisting in a way that is ethical, moral, and legal. :) In the example you mention, although I do not know all the details, I personally would not have done that.

[tien an]

On the outside jurisdiction question, no - masons are in the same jurisdiction as anyone else.

And I think my edits address your other point*, but you were quite correct. I will assist a brother mason when I can, which means only if Im assisting in a way that is ethical, moral, and legal. :) In the example you mention, although I do not know all the details, I personally would not have done that.

I don't see anything really wrong in letting a father visit his son for a couple of minutes...we're all human after all. (It's most definitely illegal and it can't be done with just anyone, but no harm was done).

*Sure, no problem.
I think you misunderstood me though: The judge / prosecutor acting outside jurisdiction by (further) punishing a fellow mason by making sure his lodge was aware of, say, even a misdemeanour is hardly fair, is it?

tian an.

[tien an]

He He - no you can't tell him or no they are not? (Sorry - I'll get me coat!)

Oh - MY answer is no the two do NOT go hand in hand as a metter of course. I knew nothing about FOTL until it appeared here. I personally do not see FOTL as a "means of pulling a fast one" but I've yet to finally weigh the positives against the potential negatives. Before someone jumps on the bandwagon (oh yes someone will) freemasonry isn't a means of "pulling a fast one" either.

A have a relative who is a Freeman Of The City Of London which came about through his being involved with one of the (newer) Livery Companies. It doesn't really mean much.

The medieval term 'freeman' meant someone who was not the property of a feudal lord, but enjoyed privileges such as the right to earn money and own land. Town dwellers who were protected by the charter of their town or city were often free - hence the term 'freedom of the City'.

In that sense seeing as all of us now have the right to earn money and to own land we are all "Freemen" anyway.

Cheers

With respect, Keystone, how can you call someone (his children and grandchildren) being forced to pay taxes to cover a national debt (and bail out over-enthusiastic, and most probably corrupt, banks) anything other than 'bondage' or 'slavery'?
You may feel free; I certainly don't.

tian an.

[yozhik]

The Law Society is the solicitors regulatory body and also its union in effect. How is that a secret society or do you mean something differenet because you used lower case letters?

BTW I responded to your sarcy post about the City of London on that other thread to show you that I know exactly what I'm talking about - seeing as how you asked. You never responded.

Cheers

Sorry ... didn't realise I was obligated to answer.
My mistake.

I consider myself told off.

[yozhik]

Wouldn't the prosecutor and/or judge be acting 'ultra vires'?

tian an.

I really like your sense of humour ... :)

[yozhik]

I think you misunderstood me though: The judge / prosecutor acting outside jurisdiction by (further) punishing a fellow mason by making sure his lodge was aware of, say, even a misdemeanour is hardly fair, is it?

tian an.

Ah ... that ol' chestnut; "fairness" in a court room.
Yes ... I'm told that existed once ...
;)

[tien an]

I really like your sense of humour ... :)

Thanks...the jokes sometimes work if you dont' point out the obvious:p

[tien an]

Ah ... that ol' chestnut; "fairness" in a court room.
Yes ... I'm told that existed once ...
;)

I know...I almost wrote 'just' instead of 'fair'...see previous post.


tian an.

[keystone]

Sorry ... didn't realise I was obligated to answer.
My mistake.

I consider myself told off.LoL oh no I wasn't telling you off. You asked me a question. I responded. It just might have been nice to know that you'd seen my answer seeing as you asked and I took the time to answer you. Never mind.

Cheers

[keystone]

With respect, Keystone, how can you call someone (his children and grandchildren) being forced to pay taxes to cover a national debt (and bail out over-enthusiastic, and most probably corrupt, banks) anything other than 'bondage' or 'slavery'?
You may feel free; I certainly don't.

tian an.Yes I take your point. My pips are squeaking too. But I was commenting in the context of the medieval definition of a freeman rather than any modern consideration of having to fund this Marxist Government's social engineering projects and financial impropriety.

Cheers

[keystone]

The judge / prosecutor acting outside jurisdiction by (further) punishing a fellow mason by making sure his lodge was aware of, say, even a misdemeanour is hardly fair, is it?In the UK it works slightly differently. If a mason is convicetd of a criminal offence in the UK he is EXPECTED (on his honour) to report that to his Lodge who will report further up the admin tree. In that case he will either be expelled OR "invited to resign". The judge is not expected to inform his Lodge and I agree should he do so it would be unfair and outside jurisdiction.

Before anyone quotes the case of Kenneth Noyes I'll agree that it does not always work that way but he was found out eventully and dealt with accordingly. Theres a few bad apples in every barrel unfortunately.

In amplification of what LID wrote the 3rd degree obligation in a English (UGLE) Lodge includes the words ".....murder, treason, felony and all other offences contrary to the laws of God and the ordinances of the realm being at all times most especially excepted". Note the very clear use of the word excepted. Covering up crimes because the other guy is also a mason is also a heinous offence - masonically.

Cheers

[boots]

Mark Pytellek is a Freemason.

Australia being a small population would have a high number of judges etc who would be Masons and we have seen how Mark Pytellek has been treated.

When it comes to FoTL, masons and the legal system then we are all in the same boat. They dont give a fuck about us. We are all Chattel for the corporation called a government.We are all slaves to the banksters.

But when you get into the higher degrees of masonry (33 etc) then maybe it might be a different story.

.

[lightindarkness]

I think you misunderstood me though: The judge / prosecutor acting outside jurisdiction by (further) punishing a fellow mason by making sure his lodge was aware of, say, even a misdemeanour is hardly fair, is it?

Oops, yeah, sorry I did misunderstand your question. It is the duty of a mason to notify the lodge if he or another brother acts in an un-masonic fashion. The judge, lawyer, etc. who reported a mason to his lodge would be operating under their oath and not in their capacity as a judge, lawyer, etc. Most of the time masons report themselves to begin with.

I thought I had boots on ignore (guess not) but I havent posted here in 9 months or so, but it goes without saying that his comments are not based in reality. Although some judges are masons a great deal are not, just like most members of any professions are not masons. And there are no "higher degrees" than 3rd degree master masons when talking about rank, authority, etc. Boots is a believer in the anti-mason canard about 33rd degree masons, but in reality those degrees are from a side order, and degree numbers do not indicate rank, authority, power, or anything else. A 33rd degree mason has simply been active in a side order and been recognized for community service, he has no more power than a 3rd degree mason. After the 3rd degree, side degree order numbers simply indicate the order in which you watch the degrees, not rank or status.

Anyways, its been nice debunking you boots, back on ignore you go :D

[boots]

Anyways, its been nice debunking you boots, back on ignore you go :D

You debunk no one. Pal.

.

[dolores1]

He He - no you can't tell him or no they are not? (Sorry - I'll get me coat!)

Oh - MY answer is no the two do NOT go hand in hand as a metter of course. I knew nothing about FOTL until it appeared here. I personally do not see FOTL as a "means of pulling a fast one" but I've yet to finally weigh the positives against the potential negatives. Before someone jumps on the bandwagon (oh yes someone will) freemasonry isn't a means of "pulling a fast one" either.

A have a relative who is a Freeman Of The City Of London which came about through his being involved with one of the (newer) Livery Companies. It doesn't really mean much.

The medieval term 'freeman' meant someone who was not the property of a feudal lord, but enjoyed privileges such as the right to earn money and own land. Town dwellers who were protected by the charter of their town or city were often free - hence the term 'freedom of the City'.

In that sense seeing as all of us now have the right to earn money and to own land we are all "Freemen" anyway.



Cheers

I am a free man/woman on the land in the UK and it is not a get out of jail card. It means taking FULL responsibility for your decisions; it is the principal of FREEDOM I wanted. Not liberty, sailors get liberty but they have to return to their MASTER. the ship's captian. "Admiralty law."

It is the principal that counts and finding out that legaleise is a different language from English, but your solicitor won't tell you that. Or that their oath is to the court as an Officer of the court; NOT to you.

If you think you are FREE read your paperwork and licences. Free men and women need neither. You are a slave with numbers; a birth (berth) certificate. You are registered, you belong to the corporation
called "The Crown" and you probably have a national Insurance number?

This means your labour belongs to them for life. If you have a mortgage read your deeds, you are a tenant? Check this out for your self please!!

[dolores1]

Oops, yeah, sorry I did misunderstand your question. It is the duty of a mason to notify the lodge if he or another brother acts in an un-masonic fashion. The judge, lawyer, etc. who reported a mason to his lodge would be operating under their oath and not in their capacity as a judge, lawyer, etc. Most of the time masons report themselves to begin with.

I thought I had boots on ignore (guess not) but I havent posted here in 9 months or so, but it goes without saying that his comments are not based in reality. Although some judges are masons a great deal are not, just like most members of any professions are not masons. And there are no "higher degrees" than 3rd degree master masons when talking about rank, authority, etc. Boots is a believer in the anti-mason canard about 33rd degree masons, but in reality those degrees are from a side order, and degree numbers do not indicate rank, authority, power, or anything else. A 33rd degree mason has simply been active in a side order and been recognized for community service, he has no more power than a 3rd degree mason. After the 3rd degree, side degree order numbers simply indicate the order in which you watch the degrees, not rank or status.

Anyways, its been nice debunking you boots, back on ignore you go :D


Honestly, on your honour?

[dolores1]

In the UK it works slightly differently. If a mason is convicetd of a criminal offence in the UK he is EXPECTED (on his honour) to report that to his Lodge who will report further up the admin tree. In that case he will either be expelled OR "invited to resign". The judge is not expected to inform his Lodge and I agree should he do so it would be unfair and outside jurisdiction.

Before anyone quotes the case of Kenneth Noyes I'll agree that it does not always work that way but he was found out eventully and dealt with accordingly. Theres a few bad apples in every barrel unfortunately.

In amplification of what LID wrote the 3rd degree obligation in a English (UGLE) Lodge includes the words ".....murder, treason, felony and all other offences contrary to the laws of God and the ordinances of the realm being at all times most especially excepted". Note the very clear use of the word excepted. Covering up crimes because the other guy is also a mason is also a heinous offence - masonically.

Cheers

Who do they refer to as God? This is debatable.

[dolores1]

Oops, yeah, sorry I did misunderstand your question. It is the duty of a mason to notify the lodge if he or another brother acts in an un-masonic fashion. The judge, lawyer, etc. who reported a mason to his lodge would be operating under their oath and not in their capacity as a judge, lawyer, etc. Most of the time masons report themselves to begin with.

I thought I had boots on ignore (guess not) but I havent posted here in 9 months or so, but it goes without saying that his comments are not based in reality. Although some judges are masons a great deal are not, just like most members of any professions are not masons. And there are no "higher degrees" than 3rd degree master masons when talking about rank, authority, etc. Boots is a believer in the anti-mason canard about 33rd degree masons, but in reality those degrees are from a side order, and degree numbers do not indicate rank, authority, power, or anything else. A 33rd degree mason has simply been active in a side order and been recognized for community service, he has no more power than a 3rd degree mason. After the 3rd degree, side degree order numbers simply indicate the order in which you watch the degrees, not rank or status.

Anyways, its been nice debunking you boots, back on ignore you go :D

?

[keystone]

Who do they refer to as God? This is debatable.Perhaps you can expand on the question and debatable with who?

Actually please dont expand, not in this thread anyway, because I'm fairly well convinced you are about to take the thread off-topic. Can I suggest that you start another in the appropriate part of the forum? Thanks.

Cheers

[lightindarkness]

Honestly, on your honour?

When you quote huge portions of text and then say something like this I hope you don't expect me to be able to divine what you mean. As keystone said though, I suspect your question might derail the thread so if your interested in some good old fashioned mason bashing and being free of the facts go to the secret societies forum and start it there.

[boots]

When you quote huge portions of text and then say something like this I hope you don't expect me to be able to divine what you mean. As keystone said though, I suspect your question might derail the thread so if your interested in some good old fashioned mason bashing and being free of the facts go to the secret societies forum and start it there.

That coming from the worlds biggest hypocrite. lol.


Oops, yeah, sorry I did misunderstand your question. It is the duty of a mason to notify the lodge if he or another brother acts in an un-masonic fashion. The judge, lawyer, etc. who reported a mason to his lodge would be operating under their oath and not in their capacity as a judge, lawyer, etc. Most of the time masons report themselves to begin with.

I thought I had boots on ignore (guess not) but I havent posted here in 9 months or so, but it goes without saying that his comments are not based in reality. Although some judges are masons a great deal are not, just like most members of any professions are not masons. And there are no "higher degrees" than 3rd degree master masons when talking about rank, authority, etc. Boots is a believer in the anti-mason canard about 33rd degree masons, but in reality those degrees are from a side order, and degree numbers do not indicate rank, authority, power, or anything else. A 33rd degree mason has simply been active in a side order and been recognized for community service, he has no more power than a 3rd degree mason. After the 3rd degree, side degree order numbers simply indicate the order in which you watch the degrees, not rank or status.

Anyways, its been nice debunking you boots, back on ignore you go :D


In response to this.

Mark Pytellek is a Freemason.

Australia being a small population would have a high number of judges etc who would be Masons and we have seen how Mark Pytellek has been treated.

When it comes to FoTL, masons and the legal system then we are all in the same boat. They dont give a fuck about us. We are all Chattel for the corporation called a government.We are all slaves to the banksters.

But when you get into the higher degrees of masonry (33 etc) then maybe it might be a different story.

.


You can see this Mason has NO interest at all when it come to Freeman technology. All he wants to do is bash people whom have a view on masons It's totally irrelevant to the topic.

.

[hadabusa]

masons will get kicked out of the lodge if convicted for an unlawfull act.

sorry, masons, but yozhik is right, the law courts have a thing or 2 to do with masons, dont even try to deny that.

a mason will now predictably answer like this:

"well, provide proof then"

nah, i wont go there.

btw,ive got nothing against masons, lol, im in switzerland, theres masons everywhere, some are buddies.
i have a drink with them etc, but we agreed on not debatting these matters.

its a sect,by definition, theres no doubt.

im not religious either, because im not attracted to sects

:cool: