View Full Version : Jehovah v. Satan: Who's worse?
alienbeat
10-09-2009, 12:49 PM
If you actually go by the facts, who's worse?
Quoting from another site:
If I still believed the Bible, it would convince me that God is evil, not good. He creates evil, he deceives, he tells people to lie, he lies himself, he rewards liars, he orders men to become drunk, he rewards the fool and the transgressor, he delivers a man into Satan's hands, he causes indecency, he spreads dung on faces, he orders stealing, he causes adultery, he orders the taking of a harlot, he orders a man to purchase his wife, he kills repeatedly, he orders killing, he degrades deformed people, he punishes bastards for being illegitimate, he punishes many for the acts of one, he punishes children for their father's sins, he supports human sacrifice, he orders cannibalism, he demanded 16,000 virgins to be given to soldiers as plunder of war, he orders gambling, he requires an unbetrothed virgin to marry her seducer, he orders horses to be hamstrung, he sanctions the degradation of enemies' women, he sanctions the beating of slaves to death, he requires a woman to marry her rapist, he ordered the cooking of food with human feces, he killed the wicked and the righteous, he intentionally gave out bad laws, he excused a murderer and promised him protection, he killed a man who refused to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law, he aided rather than punished a swindler, he discovers women's secret parts, he breaks up families, he orders the killing of children, he killed over 50,000 people because of a few, and he mandated unlimited punishment for limited sins...among other things!
I can document each one of these assertions with book, chapter, and verse from the Bible itself, and they are not taken out of context. (And I will send the documentation, if you request it.) The Bible blasphemes against God. Can you imagine a GOOD God pointing to the Bible and saying, "Yes, that's my Book. It describes me perfectly"? The God described in the Bible is a monster. Simply to read the biblical text without prejudice, Satan comes out looking better than God. In fact, a disinterested reader could very well conclude that Satan directed the writing of the Bible in order to discredit God.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/buckner/heat1.html
miracles
10-09-2009, 12:59 PM
If you actually go by the facts, who's worse?
Quoting from another site:
If I still believed the Bible, it would convince me that God is evil, not good. He creates evil, he deceives, he tells people to lie, he lies himself, he rewards liars, he orders men to become drunk, he rewards the fool and the transgressor, he delivers a man into Satan's hands, he causes indecency, he spreads dung on faces, he orders stealing, he causes adultery, he orders the taking of a harlot, he orders a man to purchase his wife, he kills repeatedly, he orders killing, he degrades deformed people, he punishes bastards for being illegitimate, he punishes many for the acts of one, he punishes children for their father's sins, he supports human sacrifice, he orders cannibalism, he demanded 16,000 virgins to be given to soldiers as plunder of war, he orders gambling, he requires an unbetrothed virgin to marry her seducer, he orders horses to be hamstrung, he sanctions the degradation of enemies' women, he sanctions the beating of slaves to death, he requires a woman to marry her rapist, he ordered the cooking of food with human feces, he killed the wicked and the righteous, he intentionally gave out bad laws, he excused a murderer and promised him protection, he killed a man who refused to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law, he aided rather than punished a swindler, he discovers women's secret parts, he breaks up families, he orders the killing of children, he killed over 50,000 people because of a few, and he mandated unlimited punishment for limited sins...among other things!
I can document each one of these assertions with book, chapter, and verse from the Bible itself, and they are not taken out of context. (And I will send the documentation, if you request it.) The Bible blasphemes against God. Can you imagine a GOOD God pointing to the Bible and saying, "Yes, that's my Book. It describes me perfectly"? The God described in the Bible is a monster. Simply to read the biblical text without prejudice, Satan comes out looking better than God. In fact, a disinterested reader could very well conclude that Satan directed the writing of the Bible in order to discredit God.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/buckner/heat1.html
Have you read the bible or did you just read disinformation books about it?
alienbeat
10-09-2009, 01:08 PM
Have you read the bible or did you just read disinformation books about it?
If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger, I won this round. :cool:
miracles
10-09-2009, 01:13 PM
If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger, I won this round. :cool:
Probably right I didnt even read the message. I won that round ;)
alienbeat
10-09-2009, 01:19 PM
Probably right I didnt even read the message. I won that round ;)
You can't attack the message because it all comes right from the Bible. :D
synergy777
10-09-2009, 01:19 PM
jah/yah - jahweh/yahweh - jehovah could be names for god, or they could names for the devil.
lets be frank, the devil imitates god, so that people do his will, eg kill, imperialism, genocide.
then you get people who see this and blame god, but they forget about the devil, using deception, and pretending to be god.
thats why when people say god is evil, he tells people to kill etc, you know they are not seeing the bigger picture.
god is love, compassion, wisdom, goodness.
the devil is evil, thus, when you see negative/evil actions that are carried out in the name of god, they are not gods actions, but the devils.
its just like the elite, who pretend to be good, but do evil, its a tactic from the devil, its quite simple really.
thus when people say god is evil, etc, then they are blinded by the deception of the devil.
alienbeat
10-09-2009, 01:22 PM
jah/yah - jahweh/yahweh - jehovah could be names for god, or they could names for the devil.
lets be frank, the devil imitates god, so that people do his will, eg kill, imperialism, genocide.
then you get people who see this and blame god, but they forget about the devil, using deception, and pretending to be god.
thats why when people say god is evil, he tells people to kill etc, you know they are not seeing the bigger picture.
god is love, compassion, wisdom, goodness.
the devil is evil, thus, when you see negative/evil actions that are carried out in the name of god, they are not gods actions, but the devils.
its just like the elite, who pretend to be good, but do evil, its a tactic from the devil, its quite simple really.
thus when people say god is evil, etc, then they are blinded by the deception of the devil.
How would you vote in this thread?
synergy777
10-09-2009, 01:26 PM
there isn't an option, its too limited in scope.
also as they maybe the same thing, the devil has many names, all relevant to each epoch/culture/civilisation.
thus could they be the same entity would be a good option.
miracles
10-09-2009, 01:36 PM
You can't attack the message because it all comes right from the Bible. :D
AH no it doesnt its your twisted spin on the bible. It's not from the bible. the op is your words and your opinions. :D 3 -1 to me.
miracles
10-09-2009, 01:38 PM
there isn't an option, its too limited in scope.
also as they maybe the same thing, the devil has many names, all relevant to each epoch/culture/civilisation.
thus could they be the same entity would be a good option.
Which would mean God and satan are yinn and yang and practise taosim and have 69 tatoos??? And the whole shooting match is just one giant mind fuck??
Excellent.
synergy777
10-09-2009, 02:05 PM
Which would mean God and satan are yinn and yang and practise taosim and have 69 tatoos??? And the whole shooting match is just one giant mind fuck??
Excellent.
lol, i just don't believe that god would reveal his name, as he knows man would mis-use it.
i do lean towards yah/jah, eg as in yashuah/jesus, was named after yah/jah, eg yah is salvation - yashuah/yeshua.
we all know as there is no j in the hebrew/aramaic alphabet. hence jesus being jewish/hebrew, could possibly have a y name not the greek/english j. also the letter j was added to the english language, only recently, eg 500-1000 years ago.
thus the best bet, is yashuah/yeshua, yah is salvation.
jus as the name isma-el, micha-el, have the el aspect, eg el the god, el from elohim etc. we have to remember that alot of modern names come from the middle east eg michael, simon, john etc these are biblical names thus middle eastern/israel.
in mel gibson's, the passion of christ, he is called yeshua. they speak aramaic
add to this the tetragrammatron yhwh, you get yahweh.
the jews, rastas, christians, muslims, hindu/sikhs all use a similar name eg yah, yhwh, yahweh, wahe.
also the aramaic name for father, was allaha/abba
thus we have one similar name that all religions use.
miracles
10-09-2009, 02:15 PM
lol, i just don't believe that god would reveal his name, as he knows man would mis-use it.
i do lean towards yah/jah, eg as in yashuah/jesus, was named after yah/jah, eg yah is salvation - yashuah/yeshua.
we all know as there is no j in the hebrew/aramaic alphabet. hence jesus being jewish/hebrew, could possibly have a y name not the greek/english j. also the letter j was added to the english language, only recently, eg 500-1000 years ago.
thus the best bet, is yashuah/yeshua, yah is salvation.
jus as the name isma-el, micha-el, have the el aspect, eg el the god, el from elohim etc. we have to remember that alot of modern names come from the middle east eg michael, simon, john etc these are biblical names thus middle eastern/israel.
in mel gibson's, the passion of christ, he is called yeshua. they speak aramaic
add to this the tetragrammatron yhwh, you get yahweh.
the jews, rastas, christians, muslims, hindu/sikhs all use a similar name eg yah, yhwh, yahweh, wahe.
also the aramaic name for father, was allaha/abba
thus we have one similar name that all religions use.
Quite true, Jesus Christ is curse word after all.
Phildee reckons it might be this
yod-he-waw-shin-ayin יהושע
alienbeat
10-09-2009, 02:16 PM
AH no it doesnt its your twisted spin on the bible. It's not from the bible. the op is your words and your opinions. :D 3 -1 to me.
Have you seen the new sign at your church?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/images/churchsign.jpg
Seriously, Jehovah was a worse killer, butcher, slaughterer, than any other 'god' man's ever made up, imho.
miracles
10-09-2009, 02:19 PM
Have you seen the new sign at your church?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/images/churchsign.jpg
Seriously, Jehovah was a worse killer, butcher, slaughterer, than any other 'god' man's ever made up, imho.
Oh and cast your soul into ever lasting fire if you reject the saviour so you had better get you act together and let God be God bubba. You aint God, he has died for your sorry ass already what more do you want???
krakhead
10-09-2009, 02:22 PM
Neither, as neither one exists. But followers of these myths can be right twats!
synergy777
10-09-2009, 02:24 PM
Neither, as neither one exists. But followers of these myths can be right twats!
so who do the elite work for, pray to, sacrifice to?
who made us, who made the big-bang, please tell bro.
miracles
10-09-2009, 02:26 PM
Neither, as neither one exists. But followers of these myths can be right twats!
So can people who dont follow it.
synergy777
10-09-2009, 02:28 PM
Quite true, Jesus Christ is curse word after all.
Phildee reckons it might be this
yod-he-waw-shin-ayin יהושע
have u got any info bro eg links etc, it looks interestering
alienbeat
10-09-2009, 02:34 PM
Oh and cast your soul into ever lasting fire if you reject the saviour so you had better get you act together and let God be God bubba. You aint God, he has died for your sorry ass already what more do you want???
What are you doing on a David Icke forum? :confused:
krakhead
10-09-2009, 02:42 PM
so who do the elite work for, pray to, sacrifice to?
who made us, who made the big-bang, please tell bro.
They (the Elites) may, according to some people, pray to some construct they call Satan. What does that prove? :confused:
The Big Bang appears to be the most common (but certainly not the only) 'map' or scientific construct to try to explain the existance of Universe. My personal views on what caused/created our reality can only be considered that, my personal view. Just like everyone else's views, because none of us can 'know' whilst in a physical incarnation, we can 'believe', but we can't 'know'
IMHO of course :D
miracles
10-09-2009, 02:44 PM
What are you doing on a David Icke forum? :confused:
Leaving! Why what are you doing here?
krakhead
10-09-2009, 02:45 PM
So can people who dont follow it.
Absolutely! The wonderful, magical, infinitely variable tapestry that is human experience :)
miracles
10-09-2009, 02:51 PM
Absolutely! The wonderful, magical, infinitely variable tapestry that is human experience :)
Aint it just peachy. :)
alienbeat
10-09-2009, 04:36 PM
Leaving! Why what are you doing here?
I'm trying to learn but this is clearly the wrong place for you.
I'm trying to learn but this is clearly the wrong place for you.
So now those who might come forward and say they are Christian should not be allowed to post?
me luvs teh freedum !
alienbeat
10-09-2009, 05:26 PM
So now those who might come forward and say they are Christian should not be allowed to post?
me luvs teh freedum !
This is anti-Ickeite speech if I ever heard it:
You aint God
Do you disagree?
Q : Jehovah v. Satan: Who's worse?
A : Neither - they're both baloney.
krakhead
13-09-2009, 01:27 PM
Q : Jehovah v. Satan: Who's worse?
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i67/mattfinn_206/HarryHill_fight.jpg
marpat
13-09-2009, 01:37 PM
Perhaps its all a matter of perception of good an evil. In the old testament god sends evil spirits to punish people. This can be seen if people read the text. He rewards the good and punishes the evil. Satan as the source of evil is a christian invention but you also have a change in what god represents. In christianty only the postive side of god is emphasised but to account for the existance of evil in the world you need an adversary. This then allows the church to demonise Yhvh, and his jewish worshippers, while claiming their god is only one of love and compassion, blaming all evil on the convenient scapegoat, satan.
michael christopher
13-09-2009, 04:58 PM
I can't choose, since I believe they are the same being.
themime
13-09-2009, 05:13 PM
Jehovah v. Satan: Who's worse?
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3747/oddballsayssilkscreen.jpg
kasalt
13-09-2009, 05:26 PM
"God, you sure look mighty fine,
Dressed as the Devil in a cosmic pantomime."
--Tears for Fears lyric
(For those who don't know, a pantomime in this case refers to a theatrical performance in which one actor plays all of the parts.)
kasalt
13-09-2009, 08:15 PM
It should be fairly obvious to the reader that there is a clear distinction between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. For example, in the New Testament 1 John 4:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+4%3A8&version=NIV) tells us "God is love", and 1 Corinthians 13:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013:4&version=NASB) states "Love is not jealous", but in the Old Testament Exodus 20:5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20:5&version=KJV) says "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God". The logical fallacy of these three quotes is obvious: If God is love and love is not jealous, then how can God be a jealous god? Either we are dealing with two separate gods (one for the Old Testament and one for the New), or God somehow changed his personality in transitioning from the Old to the New. But the latter supposition contradicts Malachi 3:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi%203:6&version=KJV) which quotes God as saying, "I change not". So, if God does not change, then we are left with the theory that there must be two Gods.
I'm just sayin'...
hadabusa
13-09-2009, 11:02 PM
maybe its the same guy/thing?
:confused:
octopusrex
14-09-2009, 04:00 AM
I can't choose, since I believe they are the same being.
My feelings exactly.
snoopsnuffleopagus
14-09-2009, 09:19 PM
]It should be fairly obvious to the reader that there is a clear distinction between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. [/SIZE]For example, in the New Testament 1 John 4:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+4%3A8&version=NIV) tells us "God is love", and 1 Corinthians 13:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013:4&version=NASB) states "Love is not jealous", but in the Old Testament Exodus 20:5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20:5&version=KJV) says "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God". The logical fallacy of these three quotes is obvious: If God is love and love is not jealous, then how can God be a jealous god? Either we are dealing with two separate gods (one for the Old Testament and one for the New), or God somehow changed his personality in transitioning from the Old to the New. But the latter supposition contradicts Malachi 3:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi%203:6&version=KJV) which quotes God as saying, "I change not". So, if God does not change, then we are left with the theory that there must be two Gods.
I'm just sayin'...
I knew you are a christian gnostic, a fantasist. The Truth ultimately emerges. :D
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/evilgod.html
First: Neither Yahweh or Yahshua haNazarene HaMessiah are 'gods', they are both 'Species Unique', nothing like them in History.
Yahweh taught Grace, Mercy and Justice to
Yahshua Messiah.
Yahweh is the Creator Being in both Volumes of the Book of Yahweh/Bible, the Tanach/ot & the Renewed Covenant/nt.
Christian Gnosticism is a Babylonish Fantasy.
http://www.tektonics.org/af/achy01.html
The author's next section is on the Gnostics, and while she is right to say that the ideas that were part of Gnosticism are indeed old, older indeed quite often than NT Christianity, she takes the overtaxed position that "Gnosticism was proto-Christianity." (60) The evidence for this?
That critics of Christianity like Porphyry and Plotinus attacked Gnostics whom they considered to be Christians--which means about as much as the modern media attacking the groups of Jim Jones and David Koresh as "Christian." The inadequate knowledge of others, and their inability to offer precise classifications of religious groups they hate intensely, offers no proof of anything.
That three church Fathers were either sympathetic to Gnostic views (Clement of Alexandria, and Ireneaus, so we are told, who "had a zodiac on the floor of his church at Lyons" [60]) or once were (Augustine)--which also means absolutely nothing; that a small number of church Fathers some 200 years after the fact and in an entirely different social-cultural milieu had any sort of involvement in a contrary movement no more adds proof to the thesis that "Gnosticism was proto-Christianity" than pointing to a group of modern Christian youth who play Dungeons and Dragons proves that "fantasy gaming is proto-Christianity."
It is claimed that Christianity shares Gnosticism's "disdain for the flesh and for matter in general," (60) although the cites offered prove no such thing, especially when examined in their literary-historical context.
John 7:7 ("The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.") is cited as proof of Jesus' supposed Gnosticism, but this only says that the works of the world are evil, not matter or the world itself.
Paul is called a Gnostic based on his supposed "abhorrence of the flesh" (though no cite is given showing this; actually, Paul, like all Jews, believed that the flesh was weak and in need of a better replacement, the physical and material resurrection body--1 Cor. 15, 2 Cor. 5)
2 Cor. 4:4 ("In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."), where Paul is said to "speak gnostically" about the "god of this world" being evil, although how this is specially "Gnostic" is far from clear.
We are also told that Paul "reveals" here that "the scriptures were tampered with," when he indicates that others have been "handling the word of God deceitfully"; even if applicable, this could hardly prove that any such tampering survived the textual-copying process and was no more than an aberration; beyond that, there is nothing specifically associated with the Greek here that indicates textual tampering [as opposed to, say, oral preaching].
Gal. 3:27 ("For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.") is said to prove that "the Christ in this human phase could be female as well as male" and was therefore an androgynous concept; how this is so is not explained at all, especially since the passage is applied to believers and their current state in Christ...and we have little evidence that conversion to Christianity caused immediate androgynization.
I knew you are a christian gnostic, a fantasist. The Truth ultimately emerges. :D
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/evilgod.html
First: Neither Yahweh or Yahshua haNazarene HaMessiah are 'gods', they are both 'Species Unique', nothing like them in History.
Yahweh taught Grace, Mercy and Justice to
Yahshua Messiah.
Yahweh is the Creator Being in both Volumes of the Book of Yahweh/Bible, the Tanach/ot & the Renewed Covenant/nt.
Christian Gnosticism is a Babylonish Fantasy.
http://www.tektonics.org/af/achy01.html
A Christian can't be simultaneously a Gnostic.
krakhead
14-09-2009, 09:29 PM
A Christian can't be simultaneously a Gnostic.
Are you sure? A quick search around the internet will provide you with links to an awful lot of people who claim they can be.
Are you sure? A quick search around the internet will provide you with links to an awful lot of people who claim they can be.
So if a million tell a lie then thing they are saying automatically becomes truth - since they are many.
Right?
eternal_spirit
14-09-2009, 11:17 PM
They are both big on blood rituals. Oh yeah dang! Nearly forgot - Jehovah is Yahweh is Allah. Satan may have been a high babylonian priest a man.
Leading on from that clue Ol Abraham was from the city of UR Babylon right?
snoopsnuffleopagus
15-09-2009, 12:29 AM
They are both big on blood rituals. Oh yeah dang! Nearly forgot - Jehovah is Yahweh is Allah. Satan may have been a high babylonian priest a man.
Leading on from that clue Ol Abraham was from the city of UR Babylon right?
only in your fevered imagination.
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/abespeak.html
Your supporting evidence is always underwhelming
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/aec2.html
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/aecy.html
Yo! es: never, ever let scholarship and historical evidence inform your opinion.
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qmoses1.html
:D
killuminati18
15-09-2009, 12:32 AM
Both can suck my cock.
snoopsnuffleopagus
15-09-2009, 12:35 AM
Both can suck my cock.
HaSatan is probably looking for a meal, not a snack.
When you get ass cancer........ :rolleyes:
eternal_spirit
15-09-2009, 12:36 AM
only in your fevered imagination.
:D
Which bit of my post are you disagreeing with? Those links look awfully long winded like 3 Bibles worth :D
kasalt
15-09-2009, 12:42 AM
When you get ass cancer........ :rolleyes:
What's up with this obsession of yours with people's asses?
killuminati18
15-09-2009, 05:02 AM
HaSatan is probably looking for a meal, not a snack.
When you get ass cancer........ :rolleyes:
Bitches always look for meals, thats true.
geolaureate8
15-09-2009, 06:44 AM
originally posted by krakhead
are you sure? A quick search around the internet will provide you with links to an awful lot of people who claim they can be.
so if a million tell a lie then thing they are saying automatically becomes truth - since they are many.
Right?
You're wrong in this case. You can't apply an ad populum fallacy to what he said. If a bunch of people call themselves Gnostic Christians, then a bunch of people call themselves Gnostic Christians. It's true regardless of your opinion.
It's different than saying, "God exists because a bunch of people said so." That's a real ad populum fallacy.
.
synergy777
16-09-2009, 01:22 PM
maybe they are both opposames, like democrat v republicans.
maybe they are two choices, left/right, good/evil, creative/destructive etc
maybe they are created/owned by the supreme being to test us, to test our free will.
seanx
16-09-2009, 01:52 PM
Kasalt wrote:
It should be fairly obvious to the reader that there is a clear distinction between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. For example, in the New Testament 1 John 4:8 tells us "God is love", and 1 Corinthians 13:4 states "Love is not jealous", but in the Old Testament Exodus 20:5 says "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God". The logical fallacy of these three quotes is obvious: If God is love and love is not jealous, then how can God be a jealous god? Either we are dealing with two separate gods (one for the Old Testament and one for the New), or God somehow changed his personality in transitioning from the Old to the New. But the latter supposition contradicts Malachi 3:6 which quotes God as saying, "I change not". So, if God does not change, then we are left with the theory that there must be two Gods.
I'm just sayin'...
Very good post..
Or maybe...... these two 'gods' are just manifestations, like you
and me, in higher frequency worlds of the one Infinite Consciousness
on its infinite road of exploration and experience.
clachan
18-09-2009, 08:01 PM
Kasalt wrote:
Very good post..
Or maybe...... these two 'gods' are just manifestations, like you
and me, in higher frequency worlds of the one Infinite Consciousness
on its infinite road of exploration and experience.
You mean like errrr.....infinite consciousness just having fun and enjoying itself ?